2026-08-12 - Planning Board Meeting

Summary

The board approved several ANR (Approval Not Required) plans and heard a presentation from CMRPC consultants (Emily Glovis and Emily T) on the draft Housing Production Plan, including discussion of Chapter 40B implications for the town. Members approved a field change for the Griffin Road project. A site plan hearing for the Whistler Road/Mansky property (engineer Kevin Quinn) covered stormwater and driveway waiver questions. The board approved a site plan waiver for a Great Grace LLC restaurant at 61 North Main Street, conditioned on 10am–10pm operating hours. Several other matters were continued: the Nick Sarah application to September 16, the Freedom Enterprises gas station application to September 2, Jesse & Jesse Properties extended to September 16, New England Power Co. continued to September 16, and Fabiola/Caesar (Pond Hill) continued to September 2. A special permit extension for the Brady Smith Road project was granted through October 2027.

Issues discussed: Housing Production Plan and Chapter 40B, Whistler Road Mansky Site Plan, New England Power Company Snake Hill Road Substation

Transcript

0:07 | being 6:30, I'm going to open up the August 12th um child and planning board meeting.
0:13 | Um first on the agenda is our ANRS. Um I we
0:24 | have one for um Smith Road um you want to do?
0:33 | Yeah, we we we reviewed this everything, you know, conforms to zoning. Building commissioner signed off on it. No, no issues on our end.
0:43 | And this is your this is your Yes. Correct.
0:45 | And you just just another I'm com mining two lots. I was going to build a single family home and a large like a barn garage.
0:59 | Which two blocks again you can combine? Yes. Three.
1:02 | Can you just you want to just Yeah.
1:04 | You can just So it's lot three and four.
1:08 | So this is the lot behind that. Yes. Correct.
1:12 | Y and then Yeah. The right the house [clears throat] is going to go right over there.
1:16 | So three and four to create to create. Yes. 23 acres. Correct. Yeah.
1:24 | It's still a reduced frontage.
1:27 | It's already has a variance. It's reduced. Yes.
1:34 | Cuz originally those two lots are two separate buildables and I'm just combining them. That's 123 ft total.
1:42 | Yeah. So it is a reduced lot.
1:46 | These two lots here are reduced. Yes, [clears throat] correct. Does that does that change anything?
1:53 | If anything, it makes it more right.
2:02 | Make a motion to accept the for property.
2:06 | Second. All in favor? I need the signatures.
2:22 | Jame, we have four copies. So, you can have one back. Correct. One for us, one for the clerk.
2:28 | There's four copies. We should walk.
2:34 | We just have to sign one paper.
2:40 | place in there. Exercise.
3:06 | So, three cups. How many do you need sign?
3:13 | Just one paper and then the stamp.
3:54 | Is there anybody for the um quadridge channel?
4:00 | So, we'll just table that and come down to that. Yep.
4:03 | Um Take them with you.
4:08 | Yes, the myar. And take the myar and one paper. No, just the myar.
4:33 | Thank you everybody. They do not know. It'll come.
4:36 | So, yeah, we made it. Okay. We do.
4:45 | still supposed to say you were supposed to say I or you
4:54 | um we have um the uh child and housing production plan
5:02 | draft that we're supposed um and so we are supposed to accept it we do accept it and and join the um select board I
5:11 | guess that's the process right to make it official document. Um, so I'll just start with that. I did
5:21 | review this thing and kind of like nine pages of notes. Um, and and of course I'm reviewing it from the view of master
5:29 | plan and so that's why I think I have so many issues because what the plan actually says doesn't make a lot of
5:36 | sense what the master plan does. Um, so since the master plane is getting redone
5:44 | now, this does seems like it's being put in the right place. So, so we have and so we have to do so um
5:53 | [clears throat]
5:54 | the the true reason for this is we can't apply for a lot of grants if we don't at least have one done. So, we don't qualify for a lot because we don't have
6:01 | enough low-inccome properties and and um some of the other uh you know stats that the state's looking for to give us
6:08 | money, but um having one does allow us to apply for grants. So, obviously we we we want to have a solid plan. Um and it
6:17 | is kind of a cookie cutter template sort of fill in the blanks.
6:20 | Um I have a lot of I I have a lot of comment about like the sur people that took the survey. such a small tiny bit of population focused on the very best survey.
6:29 | So it was but um but um you don't need to know all of my opinions yet. I will share them by email to everybody.
6:37 | This is the final copy.
6:40 | This is the draft. So the draft that's submitted. So um I [clears throat] don't honestly even know who was on the committee. I don't think anybody on the
6:48 | plane was on the committee, right? I mean I would have you would have known.
6:51 | So, um, okay.
6:54 | But, so what is I mean, is there anybody in the public here to We're here to talk about it. [laughter]
7:02 | And that's why so that's why so we're going to open it up. We're not going to vote or anything. We just wanted to kind of introduce it and and um and talk
7:10 | about what's in it um and whether what we want to support in it and stuff like that. So, uh yeah, absolutely. Why don't you guys We'll open it up to the public.
7:22 | We're We're actually from Central Mass Regional Planning Commission.
7:24 | So, you were on the committee that put this together or you We're the consultant. Consultants, right?
7:29 | Is it okay if we come up here? It's better to be seen. Oh, no. Please.
7:38 | Um I'm sorry.
7:40 | Question here. um is I mean one of the main reasons to have this I mean would be to produce affordable housing
7:47 | obviously but is to prevent affordable housing units 40 units being imposed
7:54 | upon us that we don't have a lot of say in yeah that's one of the um useful tools of having an active housing production
8:03 | plan um they're five-year plans that are um approved by the state um and if you have one that um has been approved by
8:11 | the state in the last 5 years. And the town is able to produce a half percent of its uh year-round housing stock as
8:19 | affordable units. Um so for uh Charlton based on the most recent census, that would be 26 affordable units. If you
8:27 | were to produce that in a year, you could um uh be able to not issue uh comprehensive permits to developers that
8:35 | are seeking those to develop more densely in single family zoned areas. So that is one of the benefits. Um another is just to have an active plan in place.
8:43 | I mean we did reach out to the community. We held a few workshops. Um we put out the survey as well. Um there was a lot of representation on the
8:51 | committee which we had monthly um committee meetings since October 2025 um from the senior center. I mean there was I think we did try to reach out to
8:59 | members of other boards but um I didn't even didn't even um see it invite. I mean that's not your pro I mean just because we have a little
9:08 | communication issue in this in our town hall. So um the former planner was also um involved at the onsite or something as well.
9:17 | I I have another question. Um I saw a survey at the senior center that seemed to be produced by a committee of residents. Didn't look it
9:25 | didn't have the stamp of of any of your involvement. I think this was at least a year ago. So would you had when would
9:33 | the surve I If I saw your survey, where was it? Where was it?
9:38 | It was on the town website um for a while. It was um posted on I think any like social media pages. There were flyers that were hung up at um uh in
9:48 | town hall and I think the post office and a few other locations. It was in the senior center um as well. So this was
9:55 | during I think um late fall of 2025 is when it was open. So, do you think it was October?
10:03 | That might have been a different survey because this was October 2025 to December 2025.
10:08 | That might have been for the potential senior. It could have potentially be for the senior um community center. I mean,
10:17 | the senior center um maybe maybe I think it might have been something that they did before they engaged CNP.
10:27 | There was also a route to corridor study. Um, we kicked it off in October, so it's been a little less
10:37 | sure. Yeah. Um, do you want me to talk any more about it? Like kind of go through it or just answer questions?
10:42 | Um, I don't know. How do we want to do the the format? Do you want to do a brief presentation? Yeah, I can just kind of go through it.
10:48 | Um, yeah. So, like I said, this kicked off in October 2025. We had a steering committee. Um, I'll introduce myself also. I'm Emily Glovis from the Central
10:56 | Massachusetts Regional Planning Commission. I'm the um manager of housing programs and joined with Emily TBO. So Emily G and Emily T. Um we uh uh
11:05 | met with the committee kind of guided the process provided any kind of technical expertise through this. Um and
11:12 | then we were joined by Andrew Goolas of course and um and the former planner as well. Um so that was kind of the representation from the town and we had
11:21 | um I think there was five members on the steering committee um all of which are kind of um members of the um senior
11:28 | center. Um and yeah just want to also shout out thank them for their participation and thank everyone who took the survey and joined the
11:36 | workshops. Um I would like honestly I would have taken if I and I am I'm on the planning board so it's funny that I didn't I didn't even know about the survey. I didn't
11:43 | even see it on like social media or anything. It's It's not It's I mean sometimes
11:51 | I I agree. I I didn't see that. I didn't go the process was even going on until I saw that the draft copy. It's probably
11:59 | less than half survey and and I had a lot of data crunching. There's just a lot of facts.
12:05 | There's a lot of data [clears throat] in the plan. Yeah. It's about 30 pages of just the most up-to-date census data and then a community survey, any local data
12:13 | that we could collect. Um, so that's kind of the first like twothirds of the plan is a lot of of the data crunching and everything. Um, what
12:21 | is here? What are there any gaps? Um, and then we go into discussing the um kind of like barriers to housing production, if there's any kind of
12:30 | environmental things, um regulatory barriers, things like that um that came up. Um, and then the last part is the
12:38 | recommendations as well. Um, so you know, I only brought one copy of the survey results. I'm sorry. I should have
12:46 | brought more, but if you want to pass it around, I think you probably have Okay, if you have them, just if you're curious.
12:54 | Um, let's see. Um a lot of the issues that were raised were around uh senior housing um and affordability
13:02 | particularly for um folks who um have retired or living on fixed incomes. Um and not only of the affordability aspect but also the physical constraints of
13:11 | larger single family homes on kind of larger lots. Um kind of folks who have uh built connections here, raised families um and their children are now
13:20 | adults and have moved out and feeling as if these homes are too big for them to live in. So wanting of course to remain
13:27 | in this um community but having limited options for something that's more affordable, easier to take care of. Um
13:35 | so uh a lot of the discussions were around kind of options for that moving forward. Um one of the things that came up was like cottage housing communities,
13:43 | smaller homes. You still get that independent single family home. um you can have guests over and everything, but it's more in a a a
13:51 | slightly denser community circled around a um perhaps like a garden area or shared kind of sidewalks, things like
13:58 | that. Um we talked about accessory dwelling units as an option. Um having more uh flexibility and um kind of clear
14:06 | direction around how to um create an ADU. Um we talked about home sharing as a potential option. There are existing
14:16 | home sharing organizations out there that um will help kind of um vet uh different households to partner them
14:23 | with perhaps a a younger maybe a college student who's looking for a rental option or even um an exchange of kind of
14:31 | services around the house, helping out um older residents um with household tasks. Um so there were a lot of kind of
14:38 | creative discussions around there. Um and a lot of that is outlined in the in the recommendation section.
14:46 | Um yeah, we talked about kind of mixed use options kind of um locating future
14:53 | housing with um you know a potential um you know future a grocery store would come up a lot. the need for kind of that
15:01 | or or shopping options or health care and making sure that those kind of services and amenities are near housing especially for older folks um who might
15:10 | not necessarily have access to a car. Um see um and then just to talk a little bit
15:18 | about the uh existing affordable housing stock in regards to chapter 40b. Um so
15:27 | um under this law, every community in Massachusetts has to reserve 10% of its housing stock um as deed restricted
15:34 | affordable units um for households earning 80% or less of the area median income. Currently Charlton is at 1.74%.
15:43 | So you're not at that 10% threshold. Um it has 89 units of deed restricted affordable housing where you need uh 511
15:52 | total affordable units to comply with this. Um so while the town is not alone in this, there are plenty of communities out there who have not met this
16:00 | threshold. Um it does leave the town vulnerable to the comprehensive permits like I was talking about a little bit earlier. Um so that's something that's
16:08 | outlined in the plan as well. Um um and then I will say that the
16:17 | recommendation section we broke it into kind of four different um subsections.
16:22 | So the first is funding and capacity building. Um there's leveraging financial resources as well as like technical assistance and professional
16:30 | and community support resources. Um an example of a recommendation is to pursue adoption of a municipal affordable
16:37 | housing trust fund. Um uh the second um kind of group of recommendations is zoning and policy
16:44 | changes. Um so since regulatory barriers can end up preventing um really much needed housing types. Um there were um
16:53 | recommendations for changing zoning or implementing policies um to help facilitate the the construction of certain types of housing. Um like I said
17:00 | that that um are called for. Um so yeah, for an example, pursue uh zoning changes to allow cluster developments of small
17:08 | homes such as cottage housing communities or tiny housing communities.
17:11 | Um uh another one in there was uh to pursue zoning tools including chapter 40r 40s
17:20 | um that incentivize and direct housing growth to well suited areas. So, these are um a couple and it's described in the plan in more detail, but a couple of
17:28 | um state uh zoning kind of programs that um the town could could look into to incentivize um starter homes and um affordable housing.
17:38 | Um the third group is housing planning and development strategies. So, these are ways that the town can provide support for projects. Um you know,
17:46 | recognizing that like the town is not the one creating the housing, it's it's uh the on the private and public side.
17:52 | Um so but to to support that by removing certain challenges and barriers to creating housing through partnerships, advocacy um and just like taking the
18:01 | necessary steps on the town side that it can to prepare for new development. So for example um one of the recommendations is to create an
18:09 | inventory of sites that demonstrate suitability for or affordable housing development. Um and then in the plan u
18:16 | there is a map kind of towards the end I think on page 67 that um these are the areas that just as a starting point were discussed as areas that would be
18:24 | appropriate um for future housing whether um there's land that's available um the owners are trying to sell it or
18:31 | it's near um kind of major corridors um um or other services and amenities. And
18:40 | then the just the final um section of strategies is the housing preservation strategies. So just making sure that any existing affordable housing is preserved
18:48 | so the town doesn't lose those important units um from what is called the subsidized housing inventory or the SHI.
18:54 | Um and just exploring ways that residents uh that the town can support residents and local housing organizations um as well as restoring any vacant or abandoned properties.
19:05 | So, um, yeah, I think that's that's kind of my quick summary. Um, but I'm happy to answer questions and like clarify
19:13 | anything about the process at all. And I know you're not going to vote on it tonight, but that is like the ultimate goal [clears throat] is to um adopt the
19:21 | plan by this board and then we'll bring it to the select board for their um vote of adoption and then we can submit it to the state for a five-year approval.
19:30 | I one of my big issues is throughout like within um the um sort of like the
19:40 | suggestions or the strategies like it it's like um it says for example
19:47 | um the photogen and it says pursue adoption and the idea
19:54 | um like I would be happy to say like um look into or research the process
20:02 | because I'm I'm like, "Wow, we can financially almost all of our money goes to the school district, right?" So, we're we're we're living in this this
20:11 | tight budget and some of the suggestions were, you know, take some of your your fees and even your f and and and have
20:18 | the town start funding a trust to help build these. How that's we're I mean, right now we're wondering, you know, can
20:25 | we afford the the to fix the school that's, you know, that's falling down right now, right? So, like we're so um
20:34 | the like pursue adoption, it just seems like it's we're jumping way ahead. It's more that just a terminology um to to
20:43 | research or consider or you know to to [clears throat] have a committee and and we love committees and this you know a
20:51 | committee you know look into the possibility it just and a lot of the terminology was like that let's pursue it without like um
21:00 | more versus again research the possibility um I don't maybe this is just the standard wording um and maybe that pursue means means um we're going
21:09 | to we're going to see if it's actually a possibility before. But again, throughout that, I find that that like
21:16 | yes, we're going to do that. Like we'll write the master plan like we read it and like that's something we're going to
21:22 | do again. Um you know, I'm that way. I mean a lot and that
21:31 | yeah definitely don't want to like set the tone up for failure or anything. Does that make sense?
21:36 | again because I I can't see us I mean I guess everybody can throw in five bucks and we can start a trust but you know you need to have a a real funding source
21:45 | if you're going to and but I I just can't see that happening when I look at our what our potential revenue is and our
21:52 | you can bring a a tax increase to the town right we can give everybody we could raise you know I think we talked about preservation
22:00 | before it down there Is it an appetite for that?
22:06 | Um, we're going to adopt the Community Preservation Act. All right, everybody in town, we're going to raise everybody's taxes 2%. Like, we're going to support our like they're going to be
22:14 | like at the town meeting, they're going to destroy us. Like, they're going to play. So, that's it's I there's just no way that's ever going to happen. So,
22:22 | pursue the um the uh community preservation act. No way. Maybe we support a study. Um, so it's a work.
22:32 | It would be interesting to bring that in front of the county. We would be they might actually boo us. The select board has to do that.
22:40 | Right. So that's what I'm just again that that terminology. I think that really needs to be tweaked in this. Um I I would feel uncomfortable voting saying, "Yeah, I'm I'm Let's go vote.
22:50 | Let's let's pursue." I just don't think that that's um the way it is. Um but I will again I
22:58 | have nine pages of notes so we won't go through my notes. I will I will email them um to um Jane and she can uh share
23:05 | with the board and then we can discuss if I'm being a little crazy with some of my comments.
23:11 | Um and does the board want to speak or do you want to open it up to the public
23:18 | for comments or how do you want to I just had a question to chair. So, thank you. There's a ton of research put into
23:26 | this. I appreciate all the development work that you guys did and you must have excellent databases to get all this stuff. So, uh and thank you for making
23:34 | it actionable. So, you you closed with the whole like this is what we should do and that's important. That's how we make
23:41 | progress in the 5,000 some odd units that we counted. Uh these are the housing units in Charlton.
23:50 | 5,000. Okay. Right. 5,000. Did Did that include the overlook?
24:00 | Oh, that's a good question because some of the overlook units are not are people living there full time or are they just there for a short time for
24:08 | recovery? That is okay. So, those would be included. Yes. Because it's yearround, but they don't own them. I mean they
24:17 | Yeah, I guess they would be considered rentals. Yeah, they're kind of rentals. Yeah. So, I don't know what your rules are.
24:25 | It is. But yeah, but they don't owe a a deed to the thing. They they pay [clears throat] in, pay rent, and then
24:34 | they get some of that back to their estate when they That's a good question. I will definitely verify that. I assume that those are included, but that brings up a
24:42 | good question of like for example like college housing like is that included in I don't cuz it's these are year round college
24:51 | but similar I feel I don't how vulnerable are we at any
24:56 | given moment to be to having a comprehensive permit
25:04 | at any time a developer could come we just have to and it actually kind of because maybe that maybe since we had no [clears throat] water or no sewer, they would actually build that for our town.
25:15 | So, it's a very positive that's that's one of the problems with Oh, that's one of the issues with sewer and water connections.
25:23 | I mean, we I don't even think there is enough. We have no capacity for sewer.
25:27 | They actually have to build their own sewer system, build their own sewer, build their own.
25:31 | I mean, I guess I mean I guess for which is feasible some of these developments. So, they they do do that.
25:37 | So, there may be some appetite then for not preventing what you have to say.
25:44 | No, I'm I'm I'm just [clears throat] to be unbiased in in saying like the
25:51 | potential. I just I um I just don't see the ability to ever build um a a project
25:59 | with that a unit big enough to actually change our percentage that would so we so here's an so we have a lot of
26:08 | um and another like saying we have a lot of we have commercial and industrial properties and any place where one of those kind of facilities would go would
26:16 | would really be in one of our commercial or um industrial zoned areas So what we would have to do is we would have to say
26:23 | we don't really want any tax revenue from from businesses [clears throat] to come in and create you know because that's really where
26:31 | they would only fit. That's where the water is available. So we would have to say yes we're going to sacrifice the tax revenue that we would get from a business coming in and paying us taxes
26:40 | and helping us fund it down by and we could build one of those. We could we could build you know a large apartment complex. Um but we would it would be the
26:49 | change of zoning and we would be sacrificing potential tax revenue to do so. So it's a balance we want to bring in um say
26:57 | [clears throat]
26:58 | the low low-inccome housing but do we do we sacrifice potential revenue that we need because
27:06 | well in some cases that's the appropriate spot for the low housing because it's [clears throat] near that's exactly true.
27:12 | And if you really look at this and we scrutinize our and I'm sure you guys did kind of scrutinize our our our zoning and our mapping where actual, you know,
27:21 | tax revenue would would be we would have to to give up that tax revenue and say we want to bring in a
27:30 | board. It's really our only again as much as land is that's the the only place that would support something like
27:36 | that. So with again all these um I I I would I I've been on this one for a long
27:44 | time and I've never really worried about anybody bringing in like anybody fix I never thought about anybody fixing the
27:50 | issue we have. I I I'll be in a situation where a lot of us are in the situation where we're going to want to sell our houses and get into something
27:58 | smaller. I mean we don't have that. It's a huge issue. We don't um have that available in our town. I know many many
28:06 | many senior citizens that are land rich or house rich and and they have rights for low income. There is no place for
28:13 | them to go. So that's an issue. However, we can't resolve that issue by giving up
28:20 | potential revenue tax money from our businesses that would come in and use that area. This one of those things that the town has to go on and consider.
28:31 | If I may, Madam Chair, just one of the things to consider with uh the the 40B
28:38 | process is if we adopt this uh this just gives us what's called safe harbor, which means you can [clears throat] deny a 40B. So all these considerations with
28:46 | no balance in land use, things like that. If somebody comes in with a gigantic project that completely waves all zoning requirements and it provides
28:56 | 15% affordable housing, if the town doesn't think it's a good idea, people are opposed to it, there's really
29:04 | nothing the town can do. It kind of ends up like the LG situation, it's happening, appeal it all you want, the housing appeals committee is going to
29:10 | say, "Too bad, you can't deal with it." And if you are at that 10% affordability or in our case, we've adopted this and
29:18 | we have that safe harbor. What that allows is you can still say yes to these things. And in fact, there's kind of two
29:25 | types of 40bs. There's friendly 40bs and hostile 40bs where sometimes a 40B is just a great way to get a lot of housing
29:32 | offline. Um you can even have it sometimes where it's 100% of the units will be affordable and there'll be different variations of affordability
29:40 | from you know 80% 50% 30% whatever it is. It just now gives the town the ability to say no where right now if
29:48 | somebody comes in with a 40B they're basically saying this is what we're doing and we're going to do it. That
29:54 | being said because of the sewer issues it I I think we're we're not a prime target for them. They
30:02 | need to they need to bring bring in water to bring in [clears throat] and it said we're zero capacity of the sewer. So they would have to actually build their own sewer plant. There's not
30:11 | a septic system big enough to to satisfy uh you know something that big. But worth noting is the state generally
30:19 | doesn't consider you can deny in you know very very narrow set of circumstances and the state generally
30:27 | hasn't considered lack of sewer capacity or lack of water capacity to be um a reason for denial and that has
30:34 | overturned uh but they'd have to build it though they and then is it then the responsibility of the developer to to do it or
30:43 | unclear I I haven't been in uh haven't seen seen those situations, those results, but I know if that was denial, who does that fall on to deal with that?
30:51 | Well, well, they're not going to have the talent.
30:53 | It is the builder's responsibility to do that, but there are systems that they can build for multi that that are I'm not going to say they're cheap, but they're possible.
31:05 | All right. Do we want to table this till next week maybe and give uh another opportunity?
31:10 | Yeah, we have a lot. I mean, I
31:12 | [clears throat]
31:12 | honestly I just there's just some tweaking of the words that I would get pursued to, you know, research or or or
31:20 | consider. Um I there's there's other questions, but what what um maybe this board we can put together a basic list of questions.
31:32 | Would that make sense? And then we can send them over.
31:36 | Um we're not hostile to anything. We just know that kind of we we've been doing this for a long time and it's very
31:42 | hard. Um I said we we truly um I can say my own mother-in-law was looking we're looking for some place for her to stay cuz she was so lovely to have in our
31:51 | house but she really um and there's just no options locally and what we do have. It's not like we we
31:58 | our our locals can use it because it's it's a priority from the state. So we're really in a in a bad position with our
32:06 | fellow citizens. question. Just a couple questions. [clears throat] Um those projects uh at the Shbury
32:13 | Wester line right at the market to where they put those condos up and there is any of that project
32:22 | part of like an 8020 plan or is it all market?
32:26 | I'm not sure. Um I'm not sure. Okay. Well, let me get the more simple one. in Auburn right behind
32:33 | Sheldon's up on the hill there's at least 200 units that were just built in the last 18 months. Do you know about those?
32:40 | Yeah. Was that the redevelopment of the Mary? There was like an old school that they redeveloped and added that Mary school up at center.
32:50 | I'm talking about right at the Oxford Oxford line. Okay. I'm not familiar with that. You're not familiar with it? No.
32:57 | U go on Google Earth. I mean take a ride up there. It's incredible. Each build building, I think, is 36 units, three
33:05 | stories tall. There's got to be 15 to 18 of them. You don't know anything about that?
33:12 | Okay. Well, okay. If I'm just curious, if it was an 8020 deal, you mean like 80?
33:19 | Well, if you want to build a project and you're looking for special financing, you got to put in a town request, you got to put in a percentage of uh of affordable new units. That's for 40B.
33:31 | No, not 40 bill. No, just just a some there are plans out there that that this is what it calls for.
33:39 | Uh our own town of childhood uh 55 and o [clears throat] over you have to do 10%.
33:46 | If it's in the bylaws, it is in the bylaw. And our former uh
33:51 | [clears throat]
33:52 | uh director Alan Gordon, I don't know if you had a chance, did you read our 40B bylaw.
34:02 | He's got a hurdle in there. I know there's a couple of them that started in Charleston. They had to stop because at point in time you got to come up with a
34:11 | percentage of cash, tens of thousands of dollars to continue. And that's usually the stopper because a lot of times you
34:20 | don't get the bill builder. You get you get the permit uh advocate who puts permits together. Then he takes the
34:28 | package and tries to sell it. What Allan did was you want to put the permits together. You're going to come up with
34:34 | this sizable amount of cash. Did you read that in there? You didn't see it.
34:40 | I'm not sure. I'll have to check again. We already have we already have roadblocks in there as far as 40D go. They may say, "I want to
34:48 | do a 40B." Well, go ahead. Oh, yeah. By the way, you're going to have to come up with with with with a third of your project cost as a deposit.
34:57 | I mean, talk about flying away, you know, they're gone. That's what that's what usually turns.
35:07 | Yeah. Again, so we We do need senior housing and and I don't think anybody's denying that, but
35:14 | I I just I just um I can't even imagine this community or our school districts being able to deal deal with basic like
35:23 | family housing. We can deal with it. We One other point is the town of Climouth,
35:29 | the largest land mass in the state, they've got seven manufactured homes developed uh parks there. There's got to
35:39 | be 5 to 800 manufactured homes. And why isn't the state advocate advocating those
35:46 | very re reasonable? Oh yeah, they only pay $12 uh uh fee. There's there's no real estate tax on it because it's chatt mortgage.
36:03 | Very good. I said enough. So, no, we're we're trying to develop and we we have the the comprehensive housing plan and we're trying to we have to vote to um
36:12 | support it or not. And so, we I just want to make sure that if they're voting to support it that it it has a lot of
36:20 | it's has a lot of common sense to what to what child needs. So, that's the issue
36:27 | with with the stretch code. Nothing supported.
36:32 | Sorry. Take a T. Look, look at it. A lot of communities are finally waking up and saying, you know, start a homes in this town of 550.
36:42 | Start a home. Crazy.
36:45 | So, again, we have this like if but how do we really do something if there's so many roadblocks, but it would have been
36:52 | interesting to be on this this um maybe um let us we all I'm sure we all have comments. I'm not sure if everybody read
37:00 | this entire thing. um let us um digest it, get organize some questions and some comments and I don't know it's still
37:08 | draft form but so again if like I feel so much more comfortable supporting this if we were again we just tweaked the
37:16 | words um pursue to research and I'm not sure if that hurts us when it gets when it goes to a state to get approved
37:24 | because um I I you know if there were new ideas to fund the trust that's great I I um I'm not here saying we don't want
37:33 | low-inccome housing. We do. I see. I I I I know people in the community um that
37:41 | that really need they're in a situation where they could really, you know, um need it um use it and to be able to
37:49 | remain here a lot. So, lots of grandparents, right? So, um I just want to make sure that the board is comfortable with it before. Um
37:58 | so, we'll do that. Do I have any other comments from the um audience that I that so we'll continue this public hearing?
38:06 | Well, it's on a public hearing. So, it's just discuss any votes or public meeting.
38:10 | It's a public meeting. So, um do we do we need to vote to continue it or No, just
38:17 | you just have it on the agenda for when next.
38:20 | Yeah, let's put it on the agenda for the next meeting. Second. Yeah. All in favor.
38:28 | So if everybody [clears throat] will just send anybody from the public or anybody that's listening send the um send your comments if you want a copy of
38:36 | the plan. You can reach out. You know it can be emailed um to anybody that's listening.
38:43 | Do you have this electronic? Who has this?
38:46 | I have it electronic and I'll go ahead and post it on the planning board web page just review it.
38:52 | What is the time frame that we're looking to submit and approve? Is there um you guys have it? It's really whenever you're comfortable.
38:58 | There's not a strict All right. Perfect. Thank you so much.
39:03 | Thank you both.
39:04 | We we we we need this uh um in any negative comments that I made. I again we have bad communication sometimes in
39:12 | this town hall and I I'm just surprised that um I sit on this board and I didn't even know that this was all happening. Um surprising.
39:20 | I find that surprising also.
39:22 | So yeah, but again not not on you. It's on on us for not communicating with all.
39:28 | Um, thank you so much for presenting for your comments. We will email you with appreciate your feedback. Thank you.
39:39 | square
39:54 | land management LLC from Griffin Road.
39:58 | Um I think there's just a bill change request for this and uh I'll just note I have for all of
40:05 | you there's report um myself and Mike Andre site they're doing um
40:14 | everything looks good we've got the updated plans everything looks good on our end oh you are the only comment that I want to point
40:22 | out here is uh plan board may accept modifications of field change on the condition of the updated firetruck sweep path analysis be
40:30 | provided and demonstrates the required emergency vehicle access is maintained and I think that's a reasonable condition and I'm asking for that to be
40:39 | waved because that's a whole project in itself. [clears throat] Okay. I spoke with the chief. Uh we're not restricting
40:47 | the flow in any way. We have an opening there between the two existing buildings if they were built as on plan of 30 ft.
40:55 | moving the building and combining it still will leave 30 feet state of mass I believe it's a 20 foot width so we're
41:02 | still going to have our 10 foot of expansion you know what I mean it's already there so there's no change
41:11 | um I respect that Mike Andre put that on there but it's not something that my engineer can just simply put in a program it's something that you have to
41:19 | sub out and it's a and it's an extra fee and there's no purpose for it So I did, you know, speak to the chief uh prior to
41:27 | the meeting and said, "Chief, we still are going to maintain a 30 foot because that's what we have between the buildings. So whether I take, you know,
41:35 | these two things and and I and I got 30 ft here and I move it here, I'm still going to have 30 ft here." Now that's it. You know what I'm saying?
41:42 | But you're going to still have access to both.
41:45 | Oh, the buildings are getting merged. I I I guess I I don't know what the the field change is, but then so that's it's
41:53 | [cough]
41:54 | believe I believe I sent that out. It's just showing the I can go ahead and print a copy if you need one.
41:59 | I can draw it right here for you if you like. Okay, so basically we got an existing building. Okay, that's uh 20 ft wide.
42:07 | We got 30 ft. Okay. Yep. 30 ft. And then we got a 10ft building.
42:12 | Okay, that's 10 ft. I'm moving this 10ft building right here. Okay. And now from
42:19 | the back of this building to the front of this building will still give me 30 ft. The only reason I'm doing is just to pull it away from a ledge front that's right there.
42:29 | That's all. Nothing changes. So this building becomes 30 ft wide. Okay. By the width. This building goes away and
42:37 | the driveway just moves over to where this existing building was and still 30 ft. Okay.
42:43 | So there there's no change. You know what I mean?
42:46 | It's just the the ledge is is vertical right there. I'm pulling it away.
42:50 | So that becomes one building instead of one building instead of having two a 10 a 20 by whatever the length is and a 10 by whatever the length is, it becomes a 30 by the length like 249 or something.
43:01 | Is this the property line?
43:03 | No, the property line's way. So yeah, that doesn't affect anything. It's up the ledge. There's already the chain link fence is in place for the building.
43:11 | Everything's there. So the curb is going to be here. Okay. Instead of here and here for the fire trucks. That's it.
43:18 | So it's it's just putting the taking this building, sliding it together, and we're going to still have 30 ft.
43:25 | And there's more than one building up there, though. Is it?
43:27 | There's there's 11 buildings, and there'll be nine now.
43:30 | Okay. Okay. So, it's just one building that's changing. Two two of these exact same buildings.
43:35 | So, when you drive up here, you're just going to come down this roadway instead of coming down between them. So it actually gives more room because we do
43:43 | have a trench uh drainage rail right here.
43:47 | So it makes it nicer with the sweep around. No, that's 25 ft radius and we have plenty of this building has moved this direction.
43:57 | Did you get that for me? Excuse me. Did you get the measurement?
44:00 | This was a separate building is now measurement of [clears throat] no from the uh southboard to the
44:08 | Oh, I didn't. What was that? You said for a um the link for the selfbridgeidge to the far end.
44:14 | I will get that. All right. I'll the survey is away until this coming Monday.
44:18 | I'll have them survey and get it overbridgeidge to the very end. Yep.
44:21 | Just so I know for the for the poll in the host. I will get that. I apologize.
44:33 | Do you see it on there? It's a little confusing sometimes on there. Would you like me to I I can see it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
44:40 | And none of the parking's moving.
44:43 | Nothing. Just those two buildings cuz it will leave me more access to clean that that water swaleway between the burns.
44:53 | It's just we have no problem. It's just that we can just drive straight up. Okay. Okay.
44:59 | Yeah. As long as the fire chief doesn't have an issue with that component of that then is building. We met on it. The
45:07 | only thing I asked him has nothing to do with the movement, but I was just curious.
45:10 | So, it's just a make. All we're doing is just starting. So, this roadway squeeze in between these two buildings is just going to go around the outside. And he
45:19 | was just Well, no. Just the ledge face was so high. I didn't want it that close to the back of the building.
45:30 | You want to see? Okay.
45:34 | We're just asking They're just asking to instead of the submitting a claim that this is just a continuity as a field
45:42 | change and Mike recommends that we do as long as our um as long as fire is is
45:49 | happening. So, um I'm sorry.
45:56 | How do you get to the middle unit step? You don't it it's only still two doors.
46:02 | So the unit becomes instead of a 20 foot wide unit with two doors on each side, it becomes 30 ft wide with two doors. So just a bigger unit.
46:10 | Yeah, cuz the interior wall moves. So you could make that a 10 by by 10x 10 and then a 10 by 20 or you could leave
46:18 | it all open and have a 10x30. So that middle wall is like that petition right there for the for the room. You you divide up what you want.
46:27 | So you you reduce the number of units, but you made something bigger. Yes. Exactly.
46:32 | Yeah. Overall, middle units. No. No male units. No. No. No. Sorry. No. That's good.
46:40 | So, um, do we have a motion to accept this as I'll make a motion to accept the forage
46:49 | road uh as a field change field change number two.
46:54 | with the condition that he provides the measurements um to the chief the for the distance that's
47:01 | I think that's a distance just for the uh hose and I'll do that um second
47:09 | all in favor I beautiful thank you
47:19 | thank you chief I appreciate it no
47:31 | So we have audience um Nick Sarah is next on the um agenda that they have requested to move it to their meeting of September 16th, 2026.
47:42 | Um do we need a vote for the uh you don't have to take a motion unless it's just a public meeting.
47:49 | All right, we have the um Vansky [clears throat] um site plan application for 123 M road and that's the new one.
48:03 | So, uh in accordance with section 27.1 and 27.2, two, the child and zoning bylaw.
48:12 | The child and zoning board will hold a public hearing on Wednesday, August 12th, um 6:30 in the planning board
48:20 | office in New York City Mcken Street building on Main Street um on the application of Robert Lemansky, 157
48:27 | Sunset Drive, Child Mass for site plan approval to construct the 7,254 square foot commercial building. The
48:34 | property is located at 123 Whistler Road, child and gas access 26 block, parcel 16 in the zone community business.
48:46 | Madam Chair, Kevin Quinn is engineering or the representing the owner and applicant. Rob Lemansky is the applicant. He's with me tonight. He promises he's going to say nothing.
48:58 | We'll see how that goes. We'll see how that goes.
49:02 | I'm not sure I believe it. This could be a problem.
49:07 | So, we have an application for site plan review in front of the board. The plan calls for 7,500 foot building with the site improvements. Um, the parking area for the site has 40 parking spaces.
49:17 | That's um over the um zoning requirements, 30 would be required. Um Rob has a prospective tenant who feels
49:25 | that he needs more parking. We like that from a site design standpoint. gives us a good sense that we have a client that knows what they need and we can
49:32 | accommodate those needs. Um, we have a storm water system designed in compliance with the storm water u management handbook. Um, and I know
49:41 | Graves has had some comments on that um, which I'll come back to in a minute. Um, we did get comments from Graves Engineering. We responded August 5th. I
49:50 | guess Mike's away on vacation has been away on vacation. So, I didn't hear back from him. I don't know the board has but um, he we expect to have back hear back
49:58 | from him. So, I I don't know if the board I don't think the board would want to make a decision in the absence of your engineer waiting for that. Um, a couple things came along that I just
50:06 | want to take a minute to mention. Um, Mike asked if we would produce a uh a phototric plan, lighting intensity plan.
50:14 | Um, we do those sometimes. Um, in this case, we're in a commercial district.
50:20 | We're surrounded by um nonresidential properties and we have bought 20. Um the bylaw says we have to provide you the
50:28 | lighting plan, but it doesn't say an intensity plan for a metric plan. So if it's suitable to the board, we would ask that you set that aside, but I would
50:36 | look to the board to give us direction on that.
50:39 | Um [clears throat] addition, yes, I would only be concerned about the excessive light spilling out on Route 20 and causing traffic issues. That's
50:47 | I think that would help Route 20, but that would be It depends on how the It depends on which direction. Yeah. Yeah. So, um I
50:56 | think that's one reason that we would request it. I don't know. We can we can discuss that, but like I said, um there's also they've noted that the
51:06 | driveway is not compliant with the separation from two drives. The drive is supposed to be separated by 50 ft. Okay.
51:13 | The driveway that we proposed is actually reflecting the existing driveway. It was installed by Mass DOT when they reconstructed in 20. the curb cut and driveway were put in by DOT.
51:24 | We're just extending that driveway. So, we would ask the board consider waving that requirement for that separation. It
51:31 | would be disruptive to our plan. In any case, um I can show you that this is the uh the proposed drive which as I say is
51:40 | just an extension of the existing driveway and curb cut and the one next door is is less than 50 ft. If we have
51:47 | to push this driveway over, it's pretty disruptive to our plan. We could probably make it work, but the plan would work best as we've laid out. And
51:56 | we laid it out based on the existing physical driveway that was installed where the curb cut is for that property.
52:03 | No, I'm sorry. Yes. Right. Yeah. Actually, they they put in the curb cut and they even put in a an apron and a little bit of a driveway.
52:10 | Now, doesn't that other driveway isn't there a water tank up there?
52:13 | That's that's next to us. Yeah, that's right. The water tank directly behind this.
52:17 | That's why the way the cottonwood's done.
52:19 | No, no, no. That just I got to share. So that cuts right there. Okay.
52:25 | Which is right next to where God wanted your cut to be. Right.
52:30 | They Sorry.
52:31 | That's Mass Highway already wanted they that's where Mass Highway.
52:40 | So even if we if we allow and if we wanted to move it, they might not let you move it anyways. Well, life would be more complicated.
52:48 | Say that. Um we'd have to dismantle some of it and reconstruct it. And it would be, as I say, we kind of built the plan
52:54 | around that curb cut. Um it would be disruptive to our plan to to relocate it. I think um from a a functionality
53:02 | standpoint and certainly um I think the board could certainly uh speak to the neighbor next door who happens to be sitting to to my left um who owns this driveway complaint.
53:13 | Yeah. Um we the board can consider it and we take control. What's his shaded?
53:20 | That's that's the the property next door. That's his pavement.
53:24 | [clears throat]
53:25 | The gray. Yeah. Green is is green space, right?
53:28 | But this property does I have to Kevin.
53:33 | Sorry. Um the the driveway part if you go back in history Mr. Tberry the
53:40 | original owner of the property some 60 70 years ago. He used to have his his
53:48 | farm stand on that property. He lived across the street and uh and actually he owned he owned the other corner as as
53:55 | well. But that's where his wife would go over and tend to this the vegetable stand on the property.
54:04 | Yeah. Well, again bought it from the T. Yeah. Okay.
54:08 | So, it was over the years. Yeah. That's where the opening is. So, fine. The opening just passed it on and passed it on.
54:16 | Can I answer a question?
54:18 | Is that the only waiver really looking for? That's the only one that we we see.
54:25 | Bill, we can stack some up if you want us to. Yeah. Yeah. Surprise.
54:34 | There was another question in the gra report about the storm water management being Yeah.
54:42 | being odd. Yep.
54:43 | Um here's what here's what we do. He would call it irregular or unusual and I would call it innovative. Um [laughter]
54:53 | it's not that I have my salesman's hat on, but um we have a have a um a storm water collection area above the site and what it does, it collects the offsite
55:02 | runoff and uses that runoff for recharge. Now the storm water management policy um addresses treatment of storm
55:09 | water collected from paved surfaces before you can recharge it. Um, in this case, we're collecting clean runoff and recharging that, which from an
55:17 | environmental standpoint, I I submit is much more desirable. Um, Graves Engineering, Mike's a a talented and
55:26 | critical guy, but he's also logical and I think he will listen to this and I would look forward to us a little bit a discussion with him. But I think,
55:34 | frankly, I think it's a it's a good idea. Um, and and I think I think Mike will concur with it if we get a chance to discuss.
55:43 | And we're also recharging the pavement runoff or well we meet the recharge standard by collecting the offsite runoff. So it's
55:53 | we infiltration is large enough to capture all absolutely that will right there. Yep.
56:02 | Oh bre.
56:11 | So, we'll let the engineers meet and will the coordinator.
56:28 | And so, you've had time to see Graz. You've seen his comments.
56:33 | We got their initial comments and we actually responded to them the first week of August. But as I say, Mike's been away, so he has an alternative.
56:41 | Yeah. July 27th.
56:43 | So beginning there was a couple. Yeah. Storm water storage calculations.
56:52 | As I say, they're like you change, get location.
56:57 | We we think we're pretty good with storm water design, but those guys always come in with great questions and they they
57:04 | always kind of challenge us, which is good. That's what's And did you make the updates that he requested on his?
57:12 | Yes. With the exception of the [clears throat] uh um the phototric plan. Yeah. And the relocating the driveway.
57:18 | Okay. I think we've responded for obviously elevations and all. I believe we've responded. I mean, Mike would have to review that.
57:26 | I'm satisfied with it. Right. Right. Right.
57:28 | How about the sight distance on the road?
57:31 | Yep. We showed him the the sight distance if you're looking west is 5 60 ft way over and there's jersey barriers in the
57:40 | middle of Route 20. So there's no need for sight distance looking but it would be hundreds hundreds of
57:47 | feet if you did measure and that was a field verified site too. Now are they building mounted lights?
57:54 | What's on the um we have building mounted lights? I don't think we have any um I don't think
58:02 | we have sight um I think pole mounted but I think we have building mounted I think it's calling for either two or three.
58:10 | Yeah. But what we do is this building is going to have uh a fullsided roof and in the set there just like we did with the
58:19 | the vets is we'll put in the socket lights which you know gives you coverage walls coming down and and I will say
58:27 | this is that we we did put up two pole lights. One of the pole lights over the vets shines to the east. We had it we had
58:36 | adjust it three times because as you come up by the hill there that light even though it was we had it
58:43 | on the parking lot that it was still glaring on. That's I mean that's my biggest concern is the glare on the highway coming that
58:51 | correct was right and there's no pool lights for this
58:59 | building for this no I think I believe I think there's a couple installment but no on this side this
59:08 | it would have the architect the architect has come up with a couple they would be in the the front left the
59:15 | front corner uh which should be east and I think he's got one uh over on the right corner which would be west coming
59:24 | in this way but nothing going towards route 20 there's no uh lights on route 20 near
59:33 | you right now no lights on section the instruction
59:41 | and then the uh commissioner made some mention of the retaining walls control instruction on those
59:50 | detail. We have um I I have a question the rest
1:00:00 | item here mentions talking to DOT. Can you check with them
1:00:07 | to see how they feel about as far as the driveway?
1:00:11 | Well, yeah. We have to we have to file a a permit application with DOT anyway. So you believe that that can be resolved?
1:00:20 | The district bylaw is us, right? The distance.
1:00:23 | Yes. Right. The bylaw is your your zoning by separation. So I mean I mean I guess might have a
1:00:30 | comment or something like they it's really up to us to wait. They put that in there.
1:00:36 | Did they put it in knowing where the other driveway is already? Yep.
1:00:39 | So thank you for that.
1:00:42 | So that's that's the neighbor has two driveways going in. It's kind of a loop run. Is that right?
1:00:49 | Yes. Yes.
1:00:58 | Um, how many like units? Is this just one tenant?
1:01:03 | Um, right now we anticipate 6,000 ft goes to the prospective tenant that that Rob is is working with and there's a
1:01:11 | remaining 1500 ft that would go be Seek all on one. How tall is this? One level building.
1:01:21 | One level. Open span the whole thing. Open span. Yeah.
1:01:27 | I'm sure it's a top secret tenant, but do you have what is what what does it what industry is it?
1:01:36 | It's a tenant we already have. I mean, what they want to do is is uh increase their space. They already have 18,900
1:01:45 | square feet. Now they want Okay. I want want this 6,000.
1:01:49 | I was waiting for something exciting to come to town.
1:01:52 | Well, they were in town. They already in town grocery store. Yeah. Any doors loading?
1:02:01 | No doubt.
1:02:04 | So So it's not warehousing.
1:02:07 | No, don't office. And then then then maybe some type of retail on on the car.
1:02:16 | The elevation drivers look good. It's a nice looking I'd love to say it's a Trader Joe's, but
1:02:23 | save my wife some driving, but you work on that.
1:02:26 | No, I can't. I'd love to, but they wanted to go to Starbridge. That's what they wanted to go. They didn't.
1:02:33 | What's your plans for for heating and cooling this?
1:02:38 | Um probably propane. Yeah.
1:02:42 | Um and then uh with the air conditioning is just regular uh
1:02:50 | conventional units that mount outside with the uh heat pumps with the uh air handles on the inside. I mean old school.
1:02:58 | Yeah. Um heat pumps. So you can't afford them.
1:03:07 | What are the plans for this property? That's my neighbor likes to go hunting.
1:03:12 | So [laughter] it goes up there. Yeah. But uh no plans yet.
1:03:19 | Got the farm stand back.
1:03:21 | Well that then would then would be over the 43,280 square ft disturbed area and we got which happens there.
1:03:31 | Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Disturbed.
1:03:35 | Go to town of Abin. It's only what 6 6,000 square ft disturbed area. You got to go
1:03:43 | through through hells but you got to go through.
1:03:50 | So do we want to um [clears throat] continue the public hearing?
1:03:55 | I assume that we should have a graves report for September 2nd. Do we have room on the schedule for
1:04:02 | We have as much room on the second as we do on the 16th. So just as bad for both.
1:04:07 | I I would there already a placeholder on there for you guys one of those
1:04:15 | or second we could at least review. We we have the fundamentals.
1:04:24 | We have a chance to to the rest of this stuff. All right. I'm making a before we before we do that, what do we think about the photo?
1:04:31 | Oh, sorry. Um, we did have an opportunity, the fire inspector did have an opportunity to review the plans. Um,
1:04:39 | he wasn't able to send his comments in, so uh, he elects to send it with me. Um, the only thing that we're asking for is
1:04:46 | an EAS box um, to be mounted on the building so we can gain access into the building. It's a pretty standard request
1:04:53 | for all commercial properties. Um it just limits our uh damage to the building in the event that we have to uh
1:05:00 | get into the building off hours um for alarms. Um he wasn't able to uh he he
1:05:08 | says it appears that we have the ability to get our fire apparatus around the building. He's just um wondering if we can get a radius study um for we have your truck access.
1:05:16 | Yeah, exactly.
1:05:18 | So, just to confirm, just to make sure that we can get access, um, and I'm sure you know that as long as the building is under 7,500 ft, it
1:05:25 | doesn't require a sprinkler. Um, that's why it's $74.99.
1:05:29 | Well, that's what when he measured it and he he told me that it it was that and I go, "Mr. Very, very smart man."
1:05:37 | So, um, that's a coincidence.
1:05:39 | Yeah, exactly. And so he just he had that noted just to confirm that it's um less than the 7500 square feet just so
1:05:46 | that way it doesn't require that. But that was that's it. Um we didn't have any other uh notations on the on the plan. So
1:05:55 | uh chief again I got the look the Knox box. Yeah. You know what the
1:06:03 | Knox boxes? You know those little boxes you see outside building. What do you think it cost for Knox box? I'm going to go and go buy an ox pot.
1:06:11 | And again, it's it's a it's a reasonable request.
1:06:15 | It used to be $456, but do you think they went down? Of course not. It's incred It's just nuts.
1:06:23 | I don't think we have any control over the price of that, though. So, preaching to the choir here.
1:06:28 | I don't again, Chief, am I required by law to have one?
1:06:32 | You're not required by law to have one, but it is in your best interest. Well, sometimes, you know, you break down the
1:06:40 | front door, it's less money than with that Knox. [laughter] There was there was a recent business that unfortunately uh did not have one
1:06:48 | and we had to access their business um using our uh firefighter conventional
1:06:54 | devices. And um he he then put a Knox box on because he realized
1:07:00 | so um at the front door. Yeah, he realized that it was much cheaper to put
1:07:07 | the box and um to your point, I believe the price has actually come down significantly and you may have put
1:07:15 | the wrong box on because we just priced one out for a business and I think it's
1:07:23 | I I think it's $300 or less to be honest with you.
1:07:26 | So So it's Yes, I believe it is. I believe it's $300 with the company. I just priced one out for business. So, I can get you the
1:07:35 | flyer tomorrow. So, um for that it's a lot cheaper than the cost of replacing a door, right?
1:07:43 | I can't pretty thick Polish guy.
1:07:47 | Um a friend of mine was tearing up building down uh in north of Boston in the Knox
1:07:58 | box was there. So he says, "John, you know, put that aside." A offduty fireman came by and said, "I'm
1:08:07 | from the fire department. I want to take the box." Took the box. What do you think that box mean? Anyways, moving on. Nice job.
1:08:16 | Right there.
1:08:17 | I'll make a motion to to uh send this public hearing to September 2nd or uh
1:08:25 | 23 was all in favor. I thank you. Thank you.
1:08:32 | In the meantime, thanks. Thank you.
1:08:36 | [clears throat]
1:08:36 | Sorry.
1:08:40 | Let's wait to hear back from Grace. I I I think we need to know what's going on the lights and make sure that there no
1:08:49 | Can we down lights and not
1:08:57 | shielded just shielded so that they
1:09:03 | don't want to have Yeah, we
1:09:12 | to look at the lighting plan just to make sure that there there's no reflection. Let's say completely down lights. They don't reflect. I think it
1:09:20 | was if I correctly it was do but that they could light down.
1:09:33 | Yeah, I'm okay with
1:09:47 | always have somebody tell us. Yeah, you guys just
1:09:53 | All right. So, we have um Great LLC. Um,
1:10:08 | yeah.
1:10:18 | Oh, no. You're right.
1:10:24 | In accordance with the section 207.1 and 27.2, the zone by the child and planning board will hold a public hearing on
1:10:31 | Wednesday, August 12th. Um in the planning board office um main street
1:10:38 | mass on the application of great grace for uh LLC Village Street Mass for site plan
1:10:47 | approval to renovate the existing 2312T building into a proposed restaurant. The property is located at 61 North Street
1:10:56 | Child 35 D7.2
1:11:03 | said property zone village for us.
1:11:11 | Um, okay. So, basically there's no changes upside. Um, I had talked to Curtis Oh, Commissioner Curtis, sorry.
1:11:23 | And I mean there's more parking than what's required in the existing parking.
1:11:27 | There's 16 regular spaces towards the front. There's four handicaps right by the um door, entry door. And there's
1:11:35 | five what I consider employee parking um out to the left. And so technically you have 16 regular five employee and four.
1:11:45 | But what's required is 12 spaces and four um well there's four handicap so I consider
1:11:54 | they're having about four employees so there's plenty of parking back here and we have plenty of parking up front plus the handicap parking
1:12:01 | and it's all based on the amount of tables right in the restaurant right so that the population is based on
1:12:09 | yeah with the uh um occupancy which is pretty you know there's only so much So, you only can put so many tables. So, it's not going to change.
1:12:17 | It's not, you know, right. And actually, to be honest, um the the sitting area, if you guys want
1:12:26 | to just kind of take a look, is right here. And then the kitchen and everything else is over here. The kitchen area and everything else takes
1:12:34 | up more room than the actual seating area.
1:12:42 | Sorry to frame the face. I just figured you guys didn't have No, we didn't. We don't have these.
1:12:47 | Well, cuz they didn't ask for one for me, but that's why I brought Lisa's copy.
1:12:55 | So, I think that you were potentially asking to to um wave the the site plan
1:13:04 | application u because there isn't any Well, yeah. I had just asked the question and it was your first week,
1:13:11 | wasn't it? Yeah. So, so this was something kind of we we I took this in as a site plan application. Um it was
1:13:20 | this week and kind of reviewing the bylaw, but I actually realized that this can the whole thing can be waved and I
1:13:27 | I'll just kind of go through uh here where uh this is included in your packet. It is 207.1
1:13:35 | uh D uh 2 C through F. Um so the planning
1:13:44 | board may in any particular case where such actions allowed by law in the in uh in the public interest and not inconsistent with the purpose and intent
1:13:51 | of the site plan review wave strict compliance with its rules and regulations and plan board may wave the requirement for site [clears throat] plan review where there is a change in
1:14:00 | use or occupancy and no substantial construction or improvements to the site will occur and the waiver may only be granted after a finding by the planning
1:14:09 | board that the proposed use will not substantially affect existing drainage, vehicular and pedestrian circulation patterns and any of the other standards
1:14:17 | for criteria provided for here and after in this section [clears throat] and sufficient parking exist the new proposed use and this fits all those
1:14:27 | criteria. Uh no changes to the exterior, everything's moving on the interior and based on their proposed [clears throat] use they they have sufficient parking.
1:14:35 | So if you folks are be able to make that finding which I believe you have sufficient evidence to do so um you can
1:14:42 | uh in either case you can permit it however you see fit um in all cases it
1:14:50 | uh is permissible with what is considered there's a lot of flexibility
1:14:57 | and I did look at this and I I I'm not sure what we are kind of look at in on
1:15:06 | Yeah. I just I think I have a couple questions if I can through the chair. Um what type of restaurant is it? I mean it's what type of food or is it that is there substantial takeout involved?
1:15:18 | [clears throat]
1:15:18 | Might be a pickup. I haven't decided yet, but it mostly maybe a pickup and a special dining restaurant. So it's it's
1:15:25 | how many how many tables do you expect or it's about 30 d 30 customers?
1:15:35 | 30 customers. Okay. With substantial takeout. I mean the only reason I'm I'm asking is is is the the traffic in and
1:15:43 | out of there. Is that enough if you've got 30 people in there and there's still people coming in to pick up food? And I just something to think about.
1:15:52 | Um based on what like what we had at with like Charleston pizza, you know.
1:16:00 | Yeah. I mean I guess that might be similar. Yeah. Yeah.
1:16:06 | So, um can I just just
1:16:14 | my assumption being a parent being whatever is you know to go
1:16:22 | to a pizza place or a pizza restaurant whatever you know and you go in is actually sitting there.
1:16:30 | It's to me it would be more fun to just go out and sit there and so you don't have to clean up my house afterwards.
1:16:37 | But I mean it's just there will be tables um you know so I think that once
1:16:43 | people get to know that there's enough space and whatnot they won't just order everything to go.
1:16:50 | So that's usually I have I have another restaurant in Sbury.
1:16:56 | So usually I got to pull him every table is busy. Okay.
1:17:00 | So customer just decide to take it to the Okay. Take it to the next the next the next town. Yeah. Okay.
1:17:06 | What's the seating actually going to be? Um I have that. Hold on. 34.
1:17:15 | Yeah. All right. I did read that.
1:17:20 | It actually sounds pretty reasonable to me. Something like that.
1:17:32 | I've just seen some restaurants that have way too much parking for what they have for indoor customers and mostly
1:17:41 | take out. And I've seen other restaurants that don't have nearly enough parking for the numbers customer.
1:17:47 | you don't and you don't know, you know, um like hopefully it'll be a big hit, right? And it'll be packed all the time.
1:17:54 | Um so I'm just thinking if it if it's packed all the time, is there enough space for
1:18:02 | you? 34 say 15 10 12 tables. Does that sound about right? 12 tables.
1:18:12 | Probably okay.
1:18:13 | Yeah. And there's a there's a lot more spaces there than what's actually required.
1:18:18 | So we have an overvailable I mean there's a there's a calculation right how many tables you have in the restaurant to the seating plan. So that that's how they they calculate it.
1:18:30 | Um and then so that's I mean if it was if it was any sort of a drive-thru or anything then that would
1:18:38 | be a huge you know that would be a huge issue. Um, but it's a it's certainly a better set setup than what we have currently.
1:18:48 | Yep. Across across the street. Um, like and how how bad is that? Yeah.
1:18:54 | But sometimes with the backing out thing and stuff it gets it gets kind of just trying to avoid that going forward.
1:19:00 | [clears throat] That's all I'm looking at is trying to avoid something.
1:19:04 | You I mean obviously you know your competition.
1:19:07 | So, um that's what we're but there's significantly more parking at least
1:19:14 | close right to the um the whole you know all the parking spot like in
1:19:21 | front of the grocery store and everything over there.
1:19:24 | Does everybody else feel comfortable about Yeah. 25.
1:19:32 | Well, I'm just wondering about the traffic being a major intersection for the town and right up the street from that. They're going to be trouble coming in.
1:19:42 | All the big the big issue is when all the kids come get out of Bayath and you can't get up down that road, you're stuck.
1:19:49 | That area is is designed for these type of businesses.
1:19:52 | Oh, I agree. No, but I'm just saying the thing to think of is, you know, the people coming in and out. You know,
1:20:01 | I like if it was um a movie theater, right? And and I'll just make it up and everybody leaves at the same time.
1:20:09 | Yeah. coming in.
1:20:10 | There wasn't a bunch of people that are going to be leaving at once. And I mean, I mean, there'll be sort of like a rush time during the time, but I don't think
1:20:20 | I just, you know, um, throw everything out there if we just there were some concerns that Kurt had.
1:20:27 | Um, I don't know whether we can address those plans or do you want to go through without going the full site plan?
1:20:33 | Yeah. Uh so one of the ones he said was it's not listed in the village district which I'm not sure about that one was listed in the village district. Um just
1:20:41 | saying that the applicant should list uh the location of proposed signage just to to have that included on the plans and
1:20:49 | consult with the board of health regarding cooking facilities, public water supply, sewage disposal. That's all going to have to happen.
1:20:56 | Have you guys already met with the board of health?
1:21:02 | Now, we wanted to I've talked to Commissioner Pis several times. Um, and basically at first he thought that we
1:21:11 | were changing the outside the the building or whatnot and I kept telling him we're not changing anything outside.
1:21:16 | Stays the same. Stays the same. Um, and whatnot. So, once we get through this, I told him I give him a call and the
1:21:24 | engineer myself and I will probably meet with them. And I I'll also note it was actually uh trick that pointed me in the
1:21:31 | direction of this waiver provision here that option. So he has no objections to that.
1:21:37 | I mean I truly think it's more of more of like a fire issue with any of the any of the tanks they have. More of a you know um what a health issue with all the
1:21:46 | the food inspector. So I I I don't think we need to put you through the um the fund of a a site plan review um or the
1:21:55 | the There was already sighting done on this property anyways and nothing's really changing on the part of the sponsor.
1:22:02 | So, I just going to say structurally I don't know exactly if you can do it, but
1:22:10 | you know, we can we can always let that that come up later. You could give a a conditional waiver of just saying, you know, all the conditions you want there.
1:22:16 | That still requires approval from fire, uh, board of health, any other bodies.
1:22:21 | Again, it's one of those things. It's true whether or not you say it, but it's always good to say it.
1:22:26 | Yeah. And then we um there's an engineer involved that'll be stamping the plans and he's already looked at everything and done everything and the code review
1:22:34 | and everything else. So, when was the last site plan?
1:22:50 | 2009. There's two stamps.
1:22:56 | Oh, there's a stamp right there. I can't read that. 2011. Oh, yeah.
1:23:08 | [clears throat]
1:23:20 | [clears throat]
1:23:20 | Okay. What do you need for the decision tonight? Anything?
1:23:23 | We have to I would say we have to vote whether if we want to wave the site plan
1:23:30 | that you know all those approvals.
1:23:34 | Correct. And it's worth noting I know some folks here are for public comment.
1:23:39 | Just one thing I'll I'll mention procedurally uh to those not in the the planning board know site plan approvals are are
1:23:46 | non-discretionary um it's a it's a review um but they're permitted by right and if you meet the
1:23:53 | criteria the permits get issued so just bear that in mind that is procedure like to let people know that
1:24:01 | but if we force the site plan we'd have to approve it anyways with modifications we wanted
1:24:10 | would we require any modifications? I guess that's that's kind of the So, what this does is it it's just it
1:24:18 | wait it sort of takes away the cost of all the permits and and uh and the uh and have the engineer show up and present and all that to just make the
1:24:27 | you know to not spend the money for something that you sort of you don't really need, right? because there's no
1:24:34 | changes. It's already it was already reviewed in you know 2011 with no changes. So the waters nothing changed in that.
1:24:43 | Are both of these properties under the same ownership?
1:24:47 | No one there's this one property. Oh, this this one right here. Yes.
1:24:52 | Yeah. No, this is um this is a different Yeah.
1:24:56 | There's a different there's a right of way for for access. There is a there is a sharable Broadway I think. Okay.
1:25:03 | The back the side.
1:25:05 | Yeah. I mean that that that access to it looks like access to the employee parking around back would be through the other property or through offer road.
1:25:16 | The it used to be a parking lot. Yeah. That's how you get to the back. Yeah.
1:25:22 | So I I have to assume there there is a right of way right away to use that for how you get to the dumpster.
1:25:29 | Yep.
1:25:35 | So do we have public any public comments?
1:25:37 | I I have a question. Uh Tamar Eperian 59 North Main Street. Um I have a question about um proposed hours.
1:25:49 | It's going to be 11 to 10. What? I'm sorry I didn't hit it.
1:25:57 | 11 to 10 or 10 to 10 something like that.
1:26:06 | Family pizza. How is it going to be like say pizza places at the same spot?
1:26:13 | So most of them is going to affect us. [snorts] It adds a little bit of competition with that. Great.
1:26:23 | Um I don't think this board has any authority to more discussion uh limit what type of business it is or
1:26:32 | it's it's all
1:26:44 | um I don't know if you want we reviewed the plans as well. Um, we didn't have any issues with access to the site for
1:26:52 | fiber apparatus. Um, we've we've been there a bunch of times um before for the other use of the building. Um, as far as
1:27:01 | EAS, um, you guys are fortunate there's already an EAS box on the building. So, um, 500 bucks.
1:27:08 | Yeah. $350.
1:27:12 | Um, we'll just need to get, uh, keys updated um, for it. And then the only other concerns for um will be handled
1:27:19 | through the building permit process such as um kitchen hoods, fire alarm upgrades, and stuff like that. We we'll end up dealing with that um as that um
1:27:27 | process um goes through, but we didn't have any other issues with it. So
1:27:37 | when did the ownership of the property change? Okay. just this year.
1:27:49 | Just a quick question.
1:27:52 | Noting terms still as I'm coming up to speed. I don't know if our zoning bylaw does have anything about hours of operation that limits it. I don't know
1:28:00 | if that ends up being processed through the select board or anything that is put on as part of a waiver. If you folks go the waiver route, if you might want to even just
1:28:08 | I've never looked. We've always asked about the hours of operation, but we've never really in the but we've never really and then it's on
1:28:16 | the record because they in the minutes, but we but it would be it's the building enforcement that would in Is there are you a liquor license?
1:28:27 | So is that restriction?
1:28:29 | There may be bylaws, but there would be liquor license. Maybe if you have a liquor license or planning liquor license for hours.
1:28:40 | Is that how you intend full liquor beer or wine liquor license?
1:28:44 | Oh, special permit. You couldn't live with that for Yeah. For by That's all that's the select, not us.
1:28:54 | Excellent.
1:28:55 | All right. Do you guys know what time the other pizza places or the other um restaurants that are across Charlton Woods rolls up their sidewalks
1:29:02 | at 10:00. So as Charlton [laughter] rolls up their sidewalks at 10:00, nobody's allowed out.
1:29:11 | I just assume that but you said wine and beer liquor
1:29:18 | license that you pursue special process section.
1:29:29 | So I thought that was more for a special.
1:29:38 | Yeah.
1:29:42 | So I guess we need to So I I you know one thing I we could do is we we could limit the hours from 10 to 10. Is that
1:29:52 | suitable for you for if it's early?
1:29:56 | Well, I I you know, we whether it's upholdable or not, I
1:30:04 | think uh yeah, I think the concern here is, you know, you're not are we inadvertently permitting, you
1:30:12 | know, what could be a 24/7 business. Not saying that you plan on doing that, but that that might be Well, he said um 11 or say 11 to 10.
1:30:25 | 10 to 10.
1:30:27 | 10 to 10. I think that's 10 a.m. to 10 p.m.
1:30:29 | Or it just wants to know and then I'll just submit something if you want to make that part of the application and if you need to change it, you have to come back.
1:30:37 | Sure. Modify.
1:30:39 | So 10 to 10 10 to 10.
1:30:41 | Then you folks can modify that in a in a public meeting. You would need to do a cold resubmit, but just something the board has to sign off on.
1:30:51 | So, are they they still need to file an application through the planning board or there is no everything's been filed. Um they it they
1:30:59 | they did all that. It's just a question if it's Yeah. the waiver of the need for the full site plan.
1:31:04 | Um with the conditions I'll make a motion to wave the requirement for site plan for this
1:31:10 | property. I'm sorry. uh to 61 North Main Street, Shelton for Great Grace LLC with
1:31:19 | conditions with the the condition that their hours be allowed from 10 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
1:31:28 | Second motion.
1:31:32 | I I any other public comments though that Sorry.
1:31:44 | Thank you. Thank you, Dylan.
1:31:48 | [cough]
1:31:50 | Every time Curtis sees my phone number, he does want to answer. Don't worry, that's the phone rings.
1:31:57 | That's [laughter] number special. Yeah, I appreciate you all. Thank you. Thank you very much.
1:32:05 | Good luck. I appreciate you all. Thank you. Thank you.
1:32:14 | What What are you going to call it? What's the name? Do you have a name yet? Do you have a good name for me? What's your What's your restaurant?
1:32:22 | Pizza.
1:32:24 | Don't name it child pizza. Whatever you Yeah. No, no family, no house. I'm going to I'm going to surprise you. Regional House of Pizza and Seafood.
1:32:33 | [laughter] I think that one What is it? Regional House of Pizza.
1:32:37 | And make sure your last four numbers are 2666 number.
1:32:44 | You got that on your speed dial or what is it? 266.
1:32:47 | 266. It's I think is the rest of them.
1:32:52 | [laughter]
1:32:53 | 1666.
1:32:55 | You know what the fun about? I have tried this by mistake because he means the other one.
1:33:01 | Right. It's how you end up trying them all. Wrong number. I'm going to try to do the best.
1:33:08 | Appcate.
1:33:11 | [laughter]
1:33:12 | Thank you very much. Who knew?
1:33:21 | I need a substation.
1:33:22 | Okay. Well, I have Oh, that's
1:33:29 | we have so we have um Freedom Enterprises um
1:33:39 | they with the proposed gas station they're um they're they're having they already continued to
1:33:48 | September 2nd 20 years ago. think we have to vote on that because I think we they already have it on this part of the agenda. Um Jesse and Jesse Properties
1:33:57 | LLC um they requested an extension to September 16th.
1:34:05 | Okay. All right.
1:34:06 | Um so um do we need a motion to make a motion to extend the Jesse Jesse
1:34:14 | application to September 16th, 2026 meeting? Second. Second. All in favor?
1:34:21 | I I um we have Do you want to hold on to this Jesse and Jesse stuff for next time?
1:34:28 | Yeah, you can. Yep.
1:34:34 | Then you've got um I miss them. Yep. They're requesting.
1:34:42 | Uh we have Oh, sorry. We have New England Power Company. Um they requested uh continuing to September 16th also.
1:34:51 | Okay. I have a motion. I move that we uh postpone the site plan uh for power company to September 16.
1:35:03 | Second.
1:35:05 | Okay. All um and so we have Fabiola the Caesar
1:35:15 | um for Pon Hill. Um there is and it's they requested a continent to um
1:35:23 | September 2nd 202. I move that we postpone the RA estate
1:35:33 | subdivision modification to the September meeting. Second. All in favor?
1:35:39 | I then Brady the Smith Road. So, I don't think I included anything in your packet here for this one. That was my mistake.
1:35:45 | It was just an email that I've received what it's uh it was a special permit that it approved. It's going to expire in October and he's receiving
1:35:53 | [clears throat] an extension. He's building single family home um a lot on Smith Road.
1:35:59 | What date it to?
1:36:02 | I believe uh you can send it to any date, but I would think it was October 22nd was the date of 2027, which I
1:36:10 | recommend that that should be plenty of time. needs almost started construction but you know against that deadline. So we just vote on that.
1:36:20 | Yep. I I move that we um approve the annual
1:36:26 | extension for the Smith Road lot owned by Brady.
1:36:34 | Second.
1:36:35 | All in favor? I I we have another ANR, right?
1:36:46 | And then there is just a we suspect somebody when they came to grab an ANR might have grabbed too many
1:36:53 | ANRs. Um so then we just need a resigning of an ANR yet already approved. This is this one here.
1:37:01 | Files for them.
1:37:02 | This is for powers. We So we've got a power ones. Yeah. and the resign.
1:37:08 | [clears throat]
1:37:08 | Did they file the other ones for it? October 20 years.
1:37:16 | No problem. Two different dates.
1:37:20 | Lots here for you folks. One here. Everything's good on our end.
1:37:30 | I think the one thing was there wasn't like a statement of purpose on here.
1:37:33 | here. I don't think that's required, but um as far as we can tell, everything with the division is not required.
1:37:41 | It is. And I think they just show what [clears throat] are you trying to do here? Yeah. Which is kind of the summary of it.
1:37:48 | So they did it. They just did labeling.
1:37:51 | Yeah. I I think that's typically how we see it.
1:37:54 | Yeah. I think it's we're combining this lot and that lot or splitting this and that. That's all that Yeah. That's why I felt like this was
1:38:02 | sufficient. Something the building commissioner pointed out. I'm like, seems like they get most of the way there.
1:38:15 | Oh, I see. But he's not actually saying.
1:38:26 | Yeah. I mean I it it doesn't visually show what he's what is he trying to do.
1:38:32 | I thought it was me but I'm reading this upside down. So I I think I can read it from here.
1:38:40 | Lot one and two meanings division writing lot one and two.
1:38:45 | I mean I mean one okay so this was all one big lot
1:38:55 | and he's dividing it into two lots. Do you want them to reprint one that actually spells it the statement of purpose? Everybody feels comfortable
1:39:02 | signing it like this. It's up to you folks.
1:39:18 | cutting this piece out here.
1:39:23 | Cutting off lot two from this larger lot still has front edge.
1:39:29 | So on the application he wrote to create a parcel for conveyance to an abunding lot. That's what um the purpose was.
1:39:38 | That made me sell this whole thing. Yeah.
1:39:47 | I'm a little lost.
1:39:51 | That's probably what he's Yeah. So he's look he's he's given a
1:40:00 | he's selling a piece to the neighbor and and so Oh okay and all right and bills will still be a requirement
1:40:11 | we used to most people actually saying you know purpose when I'm on it and and so yeah
1:40:24 | basis for any objection no I would um I mean As an auditor, I'd say incorrect. Send it back. But as not
1:40:32 | as a non- auditor, I'd say, you know, good enough.
1:40:35 | Good enough for as a set of plans. Um a legal set of plans, right?
1:40:42 | This is this is powers. I make motion to accept the ANR for 48 cartridge road powers dividing into that.
1:40:53 | All in favor?
1:40:54 | I I thank you.
1:41:05 | over there. Come sign. This is a resign.
1:41:08 | That's just a resign. Yep. That's the one you guys did on July. We have a Do we have a date on it?
1:41:13 | Um, do we have What's the original date? July 15th.
1:41:17 | Yeah, I would put the original July 15th was approval and Yep.
1:41:28 | 15. Yes.
1:41:32 | [clears throat]
1:41:53 | One of the paper one of the paper ones.
1:42:12 | Just one.
1:42:17 | So, oh, we have the paper ones for the other one, right?
1:42:24 | Then they're like, "Oh, we pretend that the baby probably just works paper.
1:42:34 | So, do we know who took it? No. No. They never brought it back.
1:42:40 | That's just They were like, "Oh, they're we're just going to throw it away." Yeah.
1:42:44 | Maybe one day we'll we'll move all this stuff around. Who knows?
1:42:50 | It'll be like it'll be delivered, you know, you know, in secret back. Slide it under the door.
1:42:57 | It'll be under the door when you come in.
1:43:01 | We'll find even on Earth Day, we'll find it on the side of the road. [laughter] All sides.
1:43:11 | Yeah, we got that one.
1:43:20 | Decommission bond. Uh that's also just passing back to be addressed at the 16th meeting. No, uh nothing needs to be for
1:43:28 | that. know you said there's a planning director report I'd like to just have a a session here might give you guys updates planning department wise
1:43:35 | one thing uh that we've been dealing with here that I would like to make a change on is how we do public notice
1:43:42 | currently what we do is we'll send applicants down to the assessor's office they have to get the whole list from the
1:43:49 | assessor then they make up the envelopes then we charge them for the envelopes and then we have Jane essentially stuff each envelope [clears throat]
1:43:56 | with a notice and then it goes out with a um what's the little green slip called? I'm blanking on it. Certified.
1:44:02 | Certified. Um what you can do, and what is very common in other towns, I'll sometimes get the
1:44:10 | postcards, is a postcard notice. It makes it that it cuts the time down significantly of Jane's time. It makes
1:44:17 | it significantly more simple for the applicant because it's can be a it's not a problem for obviously larger
1:44:25 | um applications and you can certainly have that as an option for uh larger developers like Amazon. I would
1:44:34 | still recommend that they go the certified mail route. Um, what it does from switching from a postcard from
1:44:40 | certified mail is on an appeal, if somebody were to say, "I was never notified." Certified mail does give you, you know, [clears throat] a little extra
1:44:48 | layer saying, "Hey, we sent the certified mail." Postcard, you still have a record of who you sent that to.
1:44:54 | Um, but they but they don't have a record of it was actually delivered to them.
1:44:58 | Correct. Because you will still get them back when it says, you know, not deliverable. We still receive them. We still keep that part of the record. So yeah, we
1:45:05 | so our right and it's and it's so I I did I researched that myself when we were talking about this. So it's our
1:45:12 | bylaws say that we we do it. So it's it's we do it as as child planning board, but the state law statewise we
1:45:20 | don't have to do it. It's a So, I'm I'm curious if we can if we could wave it when we feel it's
1:45:28 | reasonable to wave it and keep I don't want to um I don't want to not have it for like the Amazon projects and how do you put in
1:45:37 | ready in a bylaw oh a project this size or up. Can we just have the ability to wave it as as a a discretional
1:45:46 | discretionary wave it as the board and do we have to change the bylaw just to be able to wave it because we we have
1:45:54 | to change it anyway. Is it whatever we want it to? I mean, we could look at changing bylaws and it's sense.
1:46:03 | I know it's an expense for the applicant, but it's also little insurance for the town.
1:46:11 | Yeah. if it's done.
1:46:12 | I mean, I I um like for example, we have we're we're the when we do the lighting
1:46:21 | plan for um recreation, then it's just going to come out of the town's money and go back in and we'll
1:46:28 | and we'll be able to Right.
1:46:32 | Now, does the town send these out or is the applicant required to send these out? We send them out. But the applicant pays for them out.
1:46:41 | So [clears throat] the town is then liable for the if there's an issue about receipt, it's the town who gets you know somebody's saying I didn't
1:46:48 | receive notice and we're the ones that have to I trust the town. I don't trust builders. So yeah, we will developers I don't and then there's a post office.
1:46:59 | We we will be sending them out. It's not really the cost so much that I'm worried about because again that's that's on it's yeah the the the complexity of you
1:47:08 | know staffing all the envelopes. It's just it takes a lot of Jane's time for something that can you know takes several hours when you have a lot of uh
1:47:16 | applicants and it can be 15 minutes at most for you know regardless of how many because now you're just stacking you
1:47:24 | know this many of this many sheets [clears throat] of postcards so it simplifies it. Um what if you needed certified postcards?
1:47:34 | Yeah. Can't you have a certified postcard? I I swear I've got one. not save any time.
1:47:39 | Yeah, I think you're kind of right back to where you'd have to put, you know, the each post everyone by hand.
1:47:46 | Exactly. There's no automated way to do that.
1:47:51 | Yeah. Um postcard just just decision on that tonight though, right? No, it requires a change in the bylaw.
1:47:59 | Then the approach I would recommend would be to make an administrative determination because it passed the company to you guys and it's already been advertised and done.
1:48:06 | Um but that would be my recommendation. So one of the things to kind of start thinking about um and it's on regular site plans and
1:48:15 | special permits both that's a lot. What um [cough]
1:48:22 | is the warrant for the town meeting the fall town meeting already been closed? That that happens.
1:48:30 | Oh, still open. Still open. Just opened it. Just opened. Yeah.
1:48:34 | Yeah. Please put a note and propose some language maybe for a bylaw change.
1:48:42 | And and is everybody everybody wants the ability to wave it, right? That that it's it's it's a requirement, but the ability to wave it or something like that, right?
1:48:51 | Right. with uh we'll go into a post card, but uh can use certified mail
1:49:00 | upon determination by the planning board. Do you want to do determination by by the planning board or do determination by the planning office?
1:49:11 | That way it doesn't have to probably the planning office I think is I will write up the language for that.
1:49:21 | Yeah, I would see what the language already says, too. I don't know what it what it says. I like I'm just happy. I mean, I don't know truly if it has to if
1:49:28 | if if um an applicant's already talking to us if if we have to spend
1:49:35 | five minutes saying, "All right, Joe Smith, he's like, [clears throat] you know, um
1:49:42 | but it could they could delay it a month from, you know, when the postcards would go out for a special time meeting because now you we'd have to
1:49:51 | have a meeting, then go back to them and say, "Okay, you don't have to do this." And then it'll be another two weeks before they can,
1:49:58 | you know, come back again. I think that it was something minor enough just the office to the other administrative determination.
1:50:10 | And there's probably there's probably warnings already from from town that it'll uh I'll write up the language that
1:50:17 | will go on the agenda for the vote on the second. So that way then they have time to get on the war article. Good. Okay. I will go ahead.
1:50:26 | Anything else we need to put on the article?
1:50:28 | Yeah. Right. What other language do we need?
1:50:30 | Is there anything else? We did we made some major changes last time. So yeah, I don't see anything that we need to push.
1:50:38 | Um the maybe a high density
1:50:46 | I own highdensity housing zoning district or something like that. It's kind of red
1:50:53 | where high density housing is preferred to go rather than everywhere. I can um if
1:51:00 | folks are interested, I know when I was in East Hampton, one of the one of the provisions that we had in our bylaw was for multif family development that I
1:51:08 | actually thought was quite good. Um it was very heavily utilized. Basically, my time up was if somebody was going for a
1:51:16 | special permit for developing housing, it would be through this provision was very flexible. would allow for people to develop those types of
1:51:22 | in all zones or in a particular zone in all zones, but it would be uh depending on what zone you were in would
1:51:30 | determine what the requirements are. So, if you're in, you know, the the urban district, you know, you only need 5,000 square feet per unit where when you're in the rural district, you
1:51:38 | I'm just telling you that that there's that's not going to pass. Nope.
1:51:42 | All right. if we don't if we don't limit it to like say village district and um certain areas because everybody is going to say I definitely don't want to do
1:51:51 | plaques on my street or on my in my neighborhood. They're going to come and they will go absolutely against it. So, want a chance of passing?
1:51:59 | Yep.
1:52:00 | Um, I don't know. I'm sure you've seen it when you go to the town meeting and everybody shows up for that one thing because there's no way.
1:52:06 | Well, I can understand that somebody that buys them a large lot residential neighborhood thinking they're going to get, you know, large lot residential
1:52:13 | houses don't want high density housing in their in and you can completely limit what zones
1:52:19 | this is in. Um we have very few zones in this town and al and the a zone takes up
1:52:26 | 90% of the land. So we would have to and that's where the complaints are going to come from.
1:52:30 | And if you say that it like like even if you sort of make it like special permit and we can decide they still won't trust us to decide. They'll they'll they'll
1:52:38 | come and you have to be very um uh careful about about changing
1:52:45 | things in this town. people get very so I don't know we may we maybe look at you know some of the CB zones we have or
1:52:54 | you know and I'm thinking some of these properties along Route 20 um
1:53:02 | would be would be suitable for that yeah type of um street even for
1:53:09 | so this is this is our 40 up here this is CB sorry this is all CB up through trolley crossing
1:53:17 | RSC does don't allow CB down here. We allow housing. CB allows for that.
1:53:23 | CB allows CB ralay districts like uh you know high density housing overlay districts in some of these these zones along here.
1:53:36 | Yeah, there's a lot of options.
1:53:37 | I mean, I think that's that's something that we're going to have to it's going to take a little while, but we probably have CMRC P the like planning to be able
1:53:47 | to actually have somebody come in and help us some of those hours we've earned.
1:53:52 | So, I mean, we've got this R40 section behind um behind the the Dunkin Donuts and that area back there, which makes sense.
1:54:01 | Which makes sense. That's But that's not something we'll be able to do for the next town meeting, but definitely maybe put that on our agenda.
1:54:08 | Yep. And just for funding, maybe it's something else.
1:54:10 | We need to start kind of pushing to definitely do something like that. And just yet the kind of that that consideration of what um you know one of
1:54:19 | the advantages of something like this is is so not that because you again you can borrow it entirely from uh the
1:54:26 | agricultural district but generally the way that this has been approached is that for every unit that you wanted to build in for example agricultural you
1:54:34 | need 60,000 square feet. So if you have a, you know, a 600 square 600,000 square
1:54:41 | foot lot, you can now build six units on it. The idea you could have done that anyways rather than spread out and then
1:54:49 | our no then I just it just you got to you got to make decisions
1:54:56 | like for the people who are voting for you, right?
1:55:00 | So, you've got a The only problem with that is you've got a small residential street and you've got a person that's got, you know, 30 acres of land and wants to put in 300 houses or or whatever, you know, 30 15 duplexes.
1:55:13 | Yep. And 20 30 duplexes. Um, and you definitely I I think folks are right. you you know the town better than I do.
1:55:21 | It's uh I just don't think it's I just all you got to say that there's going to be more than a six family effort more than right like or anything in this town
1:55:29 | and you're going to get people are going to all of a sudden we have 100 people who show up and all of a sudden you have you know 600 people that show up to vote
1:55:37 | against something specifically and then because they don't like you because you proposed that they're going to vote on everything [laughter] else they want to.
1:55:44 | Um yeah and again this is where we put these things where does the traffic go
1:55:53 | where does it have the and I'm not a person that's like I'm not one of I'm not saying oh we can't we need
1:56:00 | for sure um maybe even maybe even housing with kids because we don't have any kids in our school district anymore but um we need senior housing
1:56:08 | desperately we need we have uh um personally I've known people that have had to move out of town um because
1:56:16 | they're now living on here every time and and they just can't afford to and there's not even a small house to buy.
1:56:22 | We never have to mind like you know rent units to rent, right? So it's it's a huge issue but um it's that balance.
1:56:31 | So how do we fund a housing affordable housing trust fund?
1:56:36 | Raise everybody's taxes 2%. Well, I mean, how about some of these large businesses that are coming in um you know, make out, you know, a tiff deal or
1:56:46 | or whatever like that. You've got big battery energy farm and they can fund partially or Amazon wants to go to flex delivery. They can fund
1:56:54 | partially 20 corridor study brought this. But you're right. We can make a tiff deal, but are we giving are we giving that money toward the trust fund
1:57:02 | or are we giving that money toward like the des the the desperate schools that we're like we're like we're talking about 30 million.
1:57:11 | You're ever going to you're never going to you're never going to cure the school problem.
1:57:15 | Well, but I mean right now they're asking for 10 million. It's 30 more million next year. It's more it's it's you know eventually the high school is going to be it's going to be 100
1:57:23 | million. And um it's all the harder maintenance that's and the state's not kicking in what it used to. So, it's all falling back on the town again. So, that's
1:57:31 | that's the problem is do you do you put money in in in an account where you know when you're when you're desperate to um
1:57:39 | and we have the senior center that that that are like I don't think you need a fund anyway. If you make it attractive enough zoning,
1:57:48 | then they will come and you know denser housing units and make some more affordable.
1:57:58 | So I had a like they really were like where we could potentially put anything like that is really the place where we
1:58:06 | make you know we would have our businesses where all of our revenue is and so do you take the potential like do
1:58:13 | you say no Amazon we don't want your million dollar a year. What we really want is a giant 400, you know, with
1:58:21 | it'll solve our low-inccome housing problem. You're sacrificing.
1:58:24 | However, now everybody's everybody's taxes has to go up to fund what the schools need. Is that is that what we
1:58:32 | do? And what kind of decision is that as elected officials in in the town, right?
1:58:38 | because that's um people don't people don't didn't want to spend a few million
1:58:44 | for a fire station for 25 years, right? Like is that what we're going to say we're we're going to take away this
1:58:52 | tax revenue because eventually, you know, land [clears throat] is a limited resource list. So that's that's the problem with how do you how do you how do you how do
1:59:00 | you make it look bit better for developers? I mean that's that's the biggest thing is you look at the developers and they're not making any [clears throat] money on affordable housing. Yeah. Yeah, they got to get
1:59:08 | they they've got to get some some other incentives from the state to you know well us I mean the town needs some
1:59:16 | what's what's our incentive what really what is it I think we're trying to reinvent a real here we can't can't use this has been examined in other
1:59:24 | communities it doesn't work well you know I was just going to say I know with with affordable housing there are a lot of financial incentives um to
1:59:33 | do affordable housing both at the state and federal level Um, and a lot of times there's there's generally a matching
1:59:40 | from the town, which usually will come out of something like a CPA fund, which we don't have, but there are still other ways that that it
1:59:48 | can be funded. I know I remember working on a 40B years ago, the funding structured something like where, you
1:59:55 | know, businesses can buy these tax write offs in the form of this affordable housing tax credit essentially. Yeah. Tax credit for that.
2:00:04 | So it was always a, you know, a reliable funding source because everybody wants these tax credits. So they sell them every year that would go into the
2:00:11 | housing. So that's but that's less for us, right?
2:00:15 | That's less for the town and it's all about the town, right?
2:00:18 | The town I think a lot of towns are in the same ratio that we have. None of them are and and until you get to over that
2:00:27 | threshold, you still like there's a lot of grants are still not eligible. It's like so, so like how much do you give up and what's the long-term benefit? And
2:00:36 | I think we have some protection in our bylaws already. Um, as you pointed out, the third down cash deposit thing. I
2:00:44 | remember with Allen talking about that, that's a pretty big hurdle that slows things down quite a bit. So, I don't
2:00:51 | think that's such an urgent, you know, imminent threat that somebody
2:00:59 | Yeah. Yeah. And that and that's it's uh no water is a better one.
2:01:03 | The the lack of the the water and sewer is I think the biggest protection. But if we were to solve the water and sewer
2:01:12 | and really get those up and running, I guarantee you you start you start seeing hostile 40 days. We would be such a target for them.
2:01:20 | A big enough development can do their own treatment.
2:01:23 | Yeah. [clears throat] Community steward. you have enough land in and you know regen area and some of
2:01:30 | these systems that are coming up now and community well a solar farm to go along with it to help power it
2:01:37 | power makes it makes it all right so is there anything else that
2:01:44 | we have on any other business that's uh those are the big ones do you I guess just to finish this
2:01:53 | conversation off do you want to put some lang language into the next town meeting for housing changes.
2:02:01 | We don't we don't I don't think we have no I think I think we need like potentially CMRTC outlet for that, right? Like someone who
2:02:09 | can really and that's we can't do that for the next meeting. There's no way. Um how's it planned, master plan? And then that's the next thing we should probably do around next year.
2:02:18 | And um so if everybody will just um maybe everybody email their comments to
2:02:25 | um Jane and Dylan and um so we can kind of get I I really want them to change
2:02:32 | pursue to research or again consider or something because because imagine saying we're going to
2:02:40 | raise your taxes a half a percent and put it in this fund.
2:02:43 | We're going to pursue that like would be laughed out of that would be laughed out of that.
2:02:48 | Can you can you throw that document on the SharePoint?
2:02:50 | Um I just emailed that to you folks. I can throw it on the SharePoint. Okay.
2:02:55 | Uh oh, yeah. I if it was on a spot of the SharePoint, we could all add comments or something back.
2:03:01 | And I uh I'm internally working out the uh my filing system here. Once I I feel
2:03:08 | confident with there, I'm going to just essentially copy it over to the SharePoint. And you kind of see that in the Yeah, there's some things that I'll
2:03:16 | probably at this point be removed from this ship, but that's that's kind of BG I think is still on there. I think I might make a historic folder. There you go.
2:03:23 | Things in there. Yeah. Okay. Definitely clean it up.
2:03:27 | I I like your idea about putting it by application and street, not by meeting date like we had and that messes up.
2:03:37 | Yeah, that's true. It'll make it easier to refer it later.
2:03:40 | You can what you just need to know what year it was and then it'll go on like that. like that.
2:03:47 | Got that. And then yeah, I I as we keep going, I will kind of try to give you folks some ideas of different towns,
2:03:56 | different bylaws, stuff like that that may be worth considering, just, you know, workshop it to make it good for Charlton. Where I'm at right now, I'm
2:04:04 | still still in Vermont and in Milford, so working in Charleton. So hopefully this will be I will be at least in
2:04:12 | Milford at the start of next month. if not in Charlton still looking for a place and once I'm actually out in this area we have no affordable housing in this
2:04:20 | housing [laughter] you know even if it's affordable it's not affordable so it isn't even like one of my goals is going to be to try to
2:04:28 | start meeting on Fridays with some of the surrounding towns uh planning directors town administrators get a sense of how they're operating
2:04:36 | what you know maybe they're doing that we could could adopt over here that might exactly so it seems like all of us have the same
2:04:45 | issues with like less and less money from the state and trying to figure out how to, you know, um not to put your
2:04:52 | fees too high but enough like like like the um
2:04:59 | Okay. Anybody else make a motion to close? Second. All in favor?
2:05:07 | I I