2026-09-08 - Select Board Meeting

Summary

The Charlton Select Board met on September 8, 2026 (summary built from ASR auto-captions, so names and figures may be misspelled). Announcements covered Barks, Badges and Boots (Sept 12), the library craft swap, legislative office hours, the Dudley-Charlton school district special election (Sept 29), yard waste drop-off dates, and the October 19 special town meeting. In open forum, Michelle Chalmers (46 Prindle Hill Road) asked that the town's use of Flock automated license plate readers be put on a public agenda, reporting about 160 signatures on each of two petitions; after town counsel said the contract decision rests with the Select Board, she withdrew the binding petition and kept the non-binding resolution for town meeting. She asked for no expansion or renewal before a public discussion and for the contract, records and legal review to be available. The board voted to place Flock on the September 22 agenda, with some members voicing trust and accuracy concerns.

The board approved the August 11 and August 25 minutes, and appointed Anne Macintosh to the Council on Aging (to June 30, 2028), Jamie Berdett to the Old Home Day Committee, special police officers Robert Green, Steve Hubble and John Agnu (to June 30, 2027), and Jeffrey Lucier as kitchen coordinator (start 9/14). It accepted Kenny Lefairy's resignation from the Cultural Council with regret. After a public meeting with no comment, the board voted to approve the layout of Ashley Road and Amber Road for acceptance at the special town meeting, following a Planning Board recommendation. It approved a firefighters' (IAFF Local 4023 / MDA) boot drive on Sept 27, accepted a $2,000 bequest for subsidized senior center meals, approved a one-year extension of the Spencer transfer station agreement (140 residents and 39 one-day passes last year), and adopted the October 1 consolidated clean energy permitting implementation, appointing the Town Administrator as local government representative and the Planning Board for minimization and mitigation measures.

On fees, Town Administrator Andrew Golas reported the process for waiving death certificate and dog license fees; a board member moved to set death certificates to $0 (about 165 a year; all certified copies bring in roughly $7,700 a year), which passed unanimously. The same member asked for a placeholder on the town meeting warrant for dog license exemptions for seniors and veterans while awaiting town counsel's opinion on whether a bylaw change and town meeting vote are required; the placeholder was approved. In a hearing, the board voted not to exercise the town's right of first refusal on about 2.47 acres of Chapter 61B land on Gould Road owned by St. Mark Coptic Orthodox Church. A 7 pm item for 508 was postponed to September 22.

The senior center timeline and options report drew the longest discussion. Pat Stockwell's feasibility committee again recommended full purchase and renovation of the former Charlton furniture building (price reduced from $1.8M to $1.6M, tax value $1.3M, seller to demolish the white building, parcel 3.68 acres, survey respondents largely indifferent to a downtown location) as the warrant placeholder for the October town meeting, with a debt exclusion vote in May. Several members questioned the changing price and asked about building on town-owned land across from the police station near Overlook, including shared police parking and a possible reverter clause. The board took no vote: the Town Administrator will look into the town-owned site and talk to Overlook, and the board will decide on the 22nd which track goes on the warrant. Members also discussed keeping the warrant open until September 22 so citizen petitions can still be added. The Town Administrator thanked the Old Home Day volunteers, Flock cameras were noted for the next agenda, and the board adjourned; next meeting is September 22, 2026.

Issues discussed: Flock Automated License Plate Readers, Senior Community Center Feasibility, Large-Scale Clean Energy Siting, Ashley Road and Amber Road Acceptance, Death Certificate and Dog License Fee Changes, Special Town Meeting Warrant - October 19, 2026, Gould Road Chapter 61B Removals - St. Mark Coptic Church, Spencer Transfer Station Agreement, 508 International Event Complaints

People: Pat Stockwell, Andrew Golas, Michelle Drumm, Michelle Chalmers, Karen Spiewak, Michael Kavorkian, Stephen Koronis, David Singer

Transcript

00:07 | All righty, then we will um call the
00:09 | meeting to order.
00:14 | This is the meeting of the Charlton
00:15 | Select Board, September 8th, 2026, 6:30
00:18 | p.m. Town Hall meeting room 1, 37 Main
00:21 | Street, Charlton, Mass. This meeting is
00:23 | being recorded and broadcast live on
00:25 | Troutton cable access TV on Spectrum TV
00:28 | channel 191 and recording available on
00:31 | the YouTube channel for Troutton TV. Any
00:33 | member of the public who wishes to
00:35 | record this meeting must notify the
00:37 | chair. If we could all rise for the
00:40 | pledge of allegiance.
00:44 | >> Pledge allegiance to the flag of the
00:46 | United States of America and to the
00:49 | republic for which it stands. One nation
00:52 | under God, indivisible, with liberty and
00:55 | justice for all.
01:02 | >> Do we have announcements?
01:04 | >> We do. The announcements for the select
01:07 | board meeting September 8th, 2026. The
01:10 | police department is hosting Barks,
01:12 | Badges, and Boots on September 12th,
01:14 | 2026 from 11:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at St.
01:17 | Joseph Church located at 10H Putnham
01:19 | Road. The Charlton Library will be
01:22 | hosting their third annual craft supply
01:24 | swap on September 12th. Members of the
01:27 | community have been donating a variety
01:29 | of new and used craft supplies for the
01:31 | past 3 weeks, and we will have them all
01:33 | sorted out. Drop in anytime between
01:35 | 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. and take what
01:37 | you need for free. This is great for new
01:40 | and experienced crafters, anyone who
01:42 | wants to try a new craft, or teach
01:45 | teachers that need supplies, bring your
01:47 | own bags. Representative John Marcy.
01:50 | Office hours with the legislative aid
01:52 | Tammy Ruda will be held on Monday,
01:54 | September 14th, 2026 from 11:30 a.m. to
01:57 | 12:30 p.m. in the town hall meeting room
02:00 | 1. Dudley Charlton School District
02:03 | special election September 29th, 2026
02:07 | from 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the
02:09 | Heritage School. Yardwaste drop off will
02:12 | be October 17th, 24th, and 31st, and
02:17 | November 7th. and 14th from 10:00 a.m.
02:20 | to 2 p.m. at the DPW located at 100
02:24 | Flint Road. Special town meeting is
02:26 | Monday, October 19th, 2026 at 7 p.m.
02:30 | Charlton Middle School.
02:35 | That's it. That's it. Thank you. Thank
02:36 | you, Mike. Um, is there anyone here for
02:39 | open form?
02:41 | if you'd please come up and
02:44 | say your name and address and you're
02:47 | talking.
02:49 | >> Okay.
02:51 | >> I'm Pat Stockwell. I'm the chair of the
02:53 | senior community center feasibility
02:54 | committee.
02:56 | >> Manon five pine lane.
02:59 | >> Um
03:02 | >> um okay. I know that you guys are going
03:04 | to be talking about the senior center
03:06 | later on in action. Do we want to wait
03:08 | for that or do we
03:09 | >> I I mean I can go through some things
03:11 | now or if you prefer that we we wait
03:13 | until then to talk about it.
03:14 | >> I I don't think it'll take long. I'm not
03:16 | going to do a full presentation if the
03:17 | chair will recognize me. Sure.
03:19 | >> Okay.
03:21 | >> Prefer that?
03:22 | >> Yeah. I prefer Yeah. All on one topic.
03:24 | Yeah. Yeah. Rather than come back to it.
03:27 | >> Yeah. If you don't mind.
03:32 | >> Anyone else for open form?
03:36 | Can you wait?
03:37 | >> We might as well wait until it's all
03:39 | >> one big topic.
03:42 | >> I may or may not.
03:46 | >> Okay.
03:55 | >> Hi.
03:56 | >> Hi.
03:58 | >> Um, good evening. Uh, my name is
04:01 | Michelle Chalmer's. My address is 46
04:05 | Prindle Hill Road. I'm here tonight to
04:09 | ask the select board to place Charlton's
04:12 | use of Flock automated license plate
04:14 | reader cameras on the next available
04:17 | meeting agenda for public discussion and
04:20 | possible action. Over the past several
04:23 | days, we collected approximately 160
04:26 | signatures on each of two citizen
04:29 | petitions. One requesting a direct
04:33 | action and the second proposing a
04:35 | non-binding resolution if town council
04:38 | determines that the contract decision
04:40 | rests with the select board. I had
04:43 | written my speech. Andrew just told me
04:45 | that the town council has informed me
04:48 | and you uh that it is obviously up to
04:51 | the select board. So, we will be
04:54 | rescending our binding petition and put
04:58 | forth the non-binding petition for the
05:01 | town meeting.
05:03 | The response was overwhelmingly
05:05 | supportive and crossed political lines.
05:08 | Uh residents may have different reasons
05:11 | uh privacy, government overreach, data
05:14 | sharing, cost, constitutional concerns,
05:17 | or lack of public discussion.
05:20 | But they do agree that a technology
05:23 | capable of recording and searching our
05:25 | movements uh should not operate or
05:28 | expand without transparency and
05:31 | democratic oversight.
05:34 | >> [snorts]
05:34 | >> This is not an attack on the Charlton
05:37 | Police Department. Uh we can support our
05:40 | police and we do um while still
05:43 | requiring oversight of powerful
05:46 | technology. Uh these cameras do not
05:49 | begin by recording a person suspected of
05:52 | a crime. They record all of us, every
05:57 | passing vehicle, its plate, location,
06:00 | time, and make those records searchable
06:04 | afterwards. Uh, the need for
06:06 | transparency was reinforced last week
06:08 | when a Massachusetts court ruled that
06:10 | the state police could not withhold the
06:12 | locations of its license plate readers
06:15 | or audit records showing when, why, and
06:18 | how uh frequently officers searched its
06:21 | database. Now, that case involved the
06:24 | state police's vigilant system rather
06:27 | than Charlton's flock system, but the
06:29 | principle is directly relevant. Uh, the
06:31 | public has a right to basic information
06:34 | about how government surveillance
06:36 | operates. Uh last week I submitted a
06:39 | public records records request uh to the
06:43 | Troutton Police Department seeking the
06:45 | flock contract, policies, costs,
06:48 | retention rules, sharing arrangements,
06:50 | camera information, and audit records.
06:53 | Uh those materials should be available
06:55 | to the board and to the public before
06:57 | any final decision. I respectfully ask
07:01 | the board to do three things. One, uh,
07:04 | place this matter on the next available
07:06 | agenda for public discussion and
07:08 | possible action and announce that
07:10 | meeting date as soon as possible.
07:13 | Second, take no action to expand the
07:15 | system, add cameras, renew the contract,
07:19 | or authorize additional discretionary
07:21 | spending before the public meeting. And
07:24 | then lastly, ensure that the requested
07:27 | records and town council's legal review,
07:31 | including a review of the contracts
07:33 | procurement compliance uh are available
07:36 | to you to the select board and to the
07:39 | public um before that discussion.
07:40 | >> Okay.
07:41 | >> Thank you.
07:42 | >> So I So the action in front of the board
07:45 | tonight would just be to put it on as
07:46 | onto our next agenda item to our next
07:49 | meeting [clears throat] as an agenda
07:51 | item.
07:51 | >> Yeah. I'd recommend through the chair I
07:54 | suggest we put it on.
07:56 | >> When is the next meeting? Do you have
07:58 | that date?
07:58 | >> Actually,
08:00 | September 22nd, which is on our agenda,
08:01 | too, right now. So,
08:02 | >> Oh, okay. Perfect. Thank you. Would you
08:04 | be um
08:08 | this is obviously all over social media
08:10 | and everybody you can't turn on the news
08:12 | without seeing it but the
08:14 | >> are you um familiar with the operation
08:17 | of how they how they operate what
08:19 | they're capable of doing and the
08:21 | guidelines that are in
08:22 | >> place
08:23 | it's an agenda item
08:25 | >> well I'm just wondering if you wanted to
08:27 | research that any of that before
08:28 | >> I have and I'm still learning
08:31 | >> okay
08:31 | >> and because it's very complicated
08:34 | It is very intricate. It is something
08:37 | that like I spoke to you this morning
08:40 | that it's larger than Charlton. And that
08:42 | it can be overwhelming for a lot of
08:44 | people. And I think that that's what I
08:46 | learned at Old Home Day this weekend is
08:49 | that a lot of people just want to have
08:51 | the conversation. They just want to
08:52 | learn.
08:53 | >> The fear can be overwhelming. The actual
08:55 | practical use is pretty it's not that
08:57 | >> that can be a little scary, too. It
08:59 | really can. I mean, I've seen videos,
09:01 | I'm sure you have, too, of people being
09:03 | pulled over and handcuffed and being
09:05 | accused that their car is stolen when
09:07 | the flock camera misread the license
09:09 | plate.
09:10 | >> You know, again, anecdotal information,
09:13 | but it it still just
09:16 | it breeds a trust or a mistrust that I
09:20 | don't know and I'm curious if the chili,
09:22 | you know, the chief of police has, you
09:25 | know, thought about that. I know that in
09:27 | talking with people from Southbridge,
09:28 | that's why their police chief got rid of
09:31 | them. They made the decision because the
09:34 | the police chief was worried about
09:35 | community trust.
09:37 | >> And so that's the conversation that we
09:39 | were, you know, would want to have.
09:40 | >> Y
09:41 | >> Yeah.
09:41 | >> I'm terrified by my phone to be honest
09:43 | with you.
09:43 | >> I'm sorry.
09:44 | >> I'm terrified by my phone. Every time I
09:46 | have a thought, it comes up.
09:48 | >> I mean, when do we control?
09:49 | >> That's right. I was just talking
09:50 | >> you should have a conversation
09:51 | >> to my father about something and all of
09:53 | a sudden he's like Michelle it just
09:55 | showed up on my phone.
09:56 | >> Okay.
09:56 | >> So I agree with you
09:57 | >> but we can put it on
09:58 | >> I mean we're on the cameras too just so
10:00 | you know [laughter]
10:02 | >> yes I know but
10:04 | >> and don't put it in the social
10:05 | [laughter] media.
10:05 | >> That's right. before we have a
10:06 | discussion,
10:07 | >> but we all know why and this is
10:09 | important for democracy that we are on
10:12 | the camera
10:13 | >> and so that again just a conversation
10:16 | and to educate it really is 100%.
10:18 | >> Yeah, I really appreciate your time.
10:20 | >> Okay.
10:21 | >> Thank you.
10:22 | >> So, we have a motion to put it on
10:25 | >> need.
10:26 | I'll move to put it on the agenda.
10:28 | >> We have a second to put it on the next
10:29 | meeting.
10:30 | >> Second.
10:32 | >> I'm all
10:32 | >> All in favor?
10:33 | >> I need it. Just want to make sure that
10:35 | we address all the questions.
10:36 | >> This one's going to get
10:38 | >> Did we get that vote? Yes.
10:40 | >> All in favor?
10:41 | >> I have it on the 22nd
10:46 | >> and the nonbinding petition will go
10:48 | through, right?
10:50 | >> I think it's
10:52 | >> if it's submitted through the chair if
10:54 | it's submitted.
10:54 | >> Yeah, it's Yeah, it's non clerk. Yeah,
10:57 | >> but we still want it
10:59 | >> on the record
11:03 | >> regardless of what happens to the
11:05 | outcome of the information you're giving
11:07 | at our next meeting.
11:08 | >> Well, if you make a decision on the next
11:11 | meeting and it goes to the way the town
11:14 | wants it,
11:15 | >> the way the way the petition the way you
11:17 | want it, but not the
11:18 | >> No, the way the town wants it. I think
11:21 | it should be the decision by the town,
11:23 | right? I mean, I don't know if you need
11:25 | both. You're going to decision. I guess
11:27 | we'd have to have that conversation
11:29 | after you.
11:29 | >> I think she's asking about the putting
11:30 | this on a
11:32 | >> meeting. But it does need to be on the
11:35 | warrant, right?
11:37 | It's not If I don't get it in tonight,
11:38 | then it can't be on, right? You could
11:40 | always pull it.
11:41 | >> We can pass over, right?
11:43 | >> You would have to take action pass over
11:45 | the Y.
11:48 | >> Okay,
11:51 | I will moving on to the next item. If
11:53 | there's nobody else here for open forum
11:55 | or
11:57 | Moving on.
12:00 | Um board vote the minutes of to accept
12:02 | the minutes of the regular meeting of
12:04 | August 11th, 2026.
12:06 | >> So move second.
12:07 | >> All in favor?
12:08 | >> I.
12:10 | >> And accept a motion to for the meeting
12:14 | of August 25th, 2026.
12:17 | >> Motion to approve the minutes as written
12:20 | from August 25th, 2026.
12:23 | >> Second.
12:24 | >> All in favor? I
12:25 | >> I unanimous
12:28 | >> and appointments.
12:30 | >> All right. Our first appointment for
12:32 | this evening is for the Council on
12:33 | Aging. There was one opening on the
12:35 | Council on Aging due to the resignation
12:36 | of Erling Murray. The opening was posted
12:39 | and one talent bank form was received
12:41 | from Anne Macintosh. The Council on
12:43 | Aging interviewed Miss Macintosh and
12:44 | would recommend the board appoint her to
12:46 | the Council on Aging until June 30th,
12:48 | 2028.
12:51 | >> Do I have a motion to appoint? So moved.
12:55 | >> Second.
12:56 | >> All in favor?
12:57 | >> I.
12:58 | >> And for the chair, I do believe she's
13:00 | here. We'd like to say congratulations.
13:02 | >> Oh. Oh, I didn't know you.
13:04 | Congratulations.
13:04 | >> Congratulations. All
13:05 | >> in favor?
13:06 | >> I unanimous.
13:08 | >> Unanimous. Congratulations. Thank you.
13:13 | >> Right. Our next appointment is for the
13:14 | old home day committee. Uh attaches a
13:16 | talent bank for from Jamie Berdett
13:18 | seeking to be appointed to the old home
13:20 | day committee. The old home day
13:21 | committee is recommended the board make
13:22 | the appointment and the term of
13:23 | expiration would be June 30th, 2027.
13:28 | >> Okay. Do I have a motion?
13:30 | >> Motion to approve Jamie Berdett for old
13:32 | home day committee.
13:33 | >> Second.
13:34 | >> All in favor?
13:34 | >> I I
13:36 | >> approve. Unanimous.
13:37 | >> All right.
13:39 | >> Next is the appointment of special
13:41 | police officers. Police Chief Dow is
13:43 | asking the board to appoint the
13:44 | following as special police officers.
13:46 | Robert Green, Steve Hubble, and John
13:49 | Agnu. I would recommend the board make
13:51 | the appointments as requested with the
13:52 | term expiration date of June 30th, 2027.
13:56 | >> Do I have a motion?
13:59 | >> I move to approve.
14:01 | >> Second.
14:02 | >> All in favor?
14:03 | >> I.
14:03 | >> Unanimous.
14:06 | >> All right. Our final appointment is for
14:07 | the position of kitchen coordinator. We
14:10 | received five applications for the
14:11 | position of kitchen coordinator.
14:12 | Interviews were offered to two
14:14 | individuals. Following those inter
14:16 | interview interviews, we recommend
14:17 | Jeffrey Lucier to be appointed to the
14:19 | position with a start date of 9:14.
14:24 | >> A motion.
14:24 | >> I have a motion make motion that we
14:26 | appoint Jeffrey Lucier [snorts] this
14:28 | position with the start date of 9:14.
14:30 | >> Second.
14:32 | >> All in favor?
14:33 | >> I unanimous. Congrats.
14:36 | >> And we have one resignation this
14:38 | evening. Attaches a letter from Kenny
14:40 | Lefairy resigning from the cultural
14:43 | council. He has realized that over the
14:45 | past few months that he needs to lessen
14:46 | what's on his plate so he can give 100%
14:48 | in all he does. Board should accept his
14:50 | resignation and a letter thanking him
14:52 | for his services in your uh sign folder.
14:56 | >> Motion to approve with regret.
14:58 | >> Second.
15:01 | >> All in favor?
15:02 | >> I I
15:03 | >> with regret
15:06 | and we have a 6:45 appointment. We're a
15:09 | little early for that.
15:10 | >> Right on time.
15:12 | 6:44.
15:13 | >> We are right on time.
15:15 | >> We got to fix that clock.
15:18 | >> All right. Road layout public meeting
15:20 | for Ashley Road and Amber Road. The
15:22 | board has received a request to put the
15:24 | acceptance of Ashley Road and Amber Road
15:26 | on the special town meeting warrant. The
15:28 | board must hold a public meeting in vote
15:30 | to approve the layout as shown on the
15:32 | meets and bounds plan. Once approved,
15:34 | the vote approving the layout must be
15:36 | filed with the town clerk who within 10
15:38 | days must record the description in a
15:39 | book kept for this purpose. This needs
15:42 | to be done at least seven days in
15:44 | advance of town meeting a uh of any town
15:46 | meeting action on the question of
15:48 | acceptance of the ways. It should also
15:51 | be noted that all the butters have been
15:53 | notified of the public meeting scheduled
15:54 | for tonight should the board accept or
15:57 | approve the layout of Ashley Road and
15:59 | Amber Road. The vote to do so will be
16:02 | filed with the town clerk. Planning
16:03 | board has recommended to accept these
16:06 | roads as submitted.
16:09 | >> Okay. Is there anyone here for
16:13 | to comment on this
16:17 | from the public? Hearing none
16:20 | >> and the planning board has approved it.
16:22 | I would accept a motion to approve the
16:24 | recommendation.
16:27 | >> Like to make a motion to approve as
16:29 | written.
16:30 | >> There's a second on that.
16:31 | >> Second. [clears throat]
16:32 | >> Any conversation?
16:35 | Hearing none. All in favor?
16:38 | >> I
16:44 | Now you had a schedule.
16:49 | >> We move on to the action items.
16:54 | >> We have um Oh, wait.
16:57 | >> Okay. Board deliberate. Board
16:59 | deliberation in
17:03 | >> firefighters drive.
17:04 | >> All right. The Charlton Permanent
17:06 | Firefighters Association, IIAFF Local
17:09 | 4023, and the MDA are requesting
17:11 | permission to hold host a boot drive
17:13 | near the intersection of Main Street,
17:15 | Masonic Home Road on September 27th,
17:17 | 2026 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. This request
17:21 | has been forwarded and approved by
17:22 | police chief Dow contingent upon the
17:25 | following safety precautions. All
17:28 | volunteers must wear bright colored
17:30 | vests, yellow, orange, green, or red,
17:32 | while soliciting donations. Orange
17:34 | traffic codes must be set out on Main
17:36 | Street and Masonic Home Road for a
17:38 | distance of not less than 50 feet on
17:39 | each respective way prior to reaching
17:41 | the toll station. A minimum of five
17:43 | traffic codes on each roadway should be
17:45 | put at place at a distance no greater
17:47 | than 10 feet apart. and signs warning
17:49 | voluntary toll road ahead must be
17:51 | erected on both Potic Home Road and Main
17:53 | Street, not less than 75 ft from the
17:55 | collection from the toll collection
17:56 | area. I'd recommend the board approve
17:58 | the request.
18:01 | >> Motion to approve Charlton Permanent
18:03 | Firefighters local 4,023 for the boot
18:06 | drive on September 27th.
18:08 | >> Second.
18:09 | >> All in favor?
18:10 | >> I
18:12 | unanimous.
18:15 | >> Right. Next action is uh to accept a uh
18:20 | donation of from someone's last will and
18:22 | testament to the senior citizens at the
18:25 | senior center. Uh couching on aging
18:27 | director Michelle Drum received a letter
18:29 | from attorney Charles Proctctor with a
18:31 | bequest to the Charlton Senior Center in
18:33 | the last will and testament of the late
18:35 | Mark A. Fibido of Oxford, Mass, leaving
18:38 | the sum of $2,000, which is which it is
18:42 | in his wish that subsidized meals be
18:45 | provided to the seniors citizens at the
18:47 | senior center. The board must vote to
18:49 | accept this very generous gift and
18:51 | authorize myself to sign the required
18:54 | paperwork.
18:56 | Pending acceptance, we'll notify
18:57 | attorney proctor.
18:59 | >> I move that we accept this very generous
19:01 | gift and um give Andrew permission to do
19:04 | what he had mentioned. Second.
19:07 | >> All in favor?
19:08 | >> I very generous. Thank you very much.
19:19 | >> Yep.
19:20 | >> All right. We have an extension of the
19:21 | transfer station agreement with the town
19:23 | of Spencer. We were notified that our
19:25 | agreement with the Spencer transfer
19:27 | station uh is currently expired as of
19:29 | June 30th, 2026. Last year, we had 140
19:32 | residents use this service and an
19:34 | additional 39 one-day passes were
19:36 | issued. Uh the service from this
19:38 | agreement has been beneficial to our
19:40 | residents who utilize it. I would
19:42 | recommend the board approve an extension
19:44 | of one year.
19:48 | >> I would accept a motion to approve the
19:50 | extension for one year.
19:52 | >> I move to approve as written.
19:55 | >> Second.
19:56 | >> All in favor?
19:57 | >> I. That's what a nice little I'm
20:00 | surprised that many people were really
20:01 | using it. It's good to see.
20:05 | >> And the next item,
20:07 | >> all right, next item will be to take
20:08 | action on the implementation date of
20:10 | October 1st, 2026 for the cons for
20:12 | consolidated uh clean energy
20:16 | applications.
20:17 | The Department of Energy Resources in
20:19 | has instituted a new consolidated local
20:21 | permitting process for small clean
20:23 | energy projects that municipalities must
20:26 | implement by October 1st, 2026 per M per
20:30 | 225 CMR 29. Per the statute, the local
20:34 | government representative is
20:35 | automatically assigned to the local
20:37 | government chief administrative officer
20:39 | or their designate. The chief
20:41 | administrative officer can designate
20:43 | some or all of the duties to one or more
20:45 | other town officials. Uh that local
20:47 | government representative is responsible
20:49 | for reviewing and determining whether
20:51 | the applicant has met all pre-iling
20:53 | requirements and signing the pre-filing
20:55 | engagement completion checklist.
20:57 | Receiving the consolidated local permit
20:59 | application circulating amongst various
21:01 | municipal departments and determining
21:03 | whether or not it is complete.
21:04 | evaluating both the applicant's site
21:06 | suitability report and propos proposing
21:09 | minimization and mitigation measures and
21:11 | compiling the decisions of individual
21:13 | boards in issuing the decision on the
21:15 | consolidated local permit application.
21:18 | Tonight, I would ask the board to do the
21:19 | following. Appoint myself as the local
21:22 | government representative, appoint the
21:24 | planning board to assign minimization
21:26 | and mitigation meas measures and
21:28 | implement the date of October 1st for
21:30 | the consolidated solar applications.
21:35 | Do I have a motion to
21:37 | I know we need to do a lot of work on
21:39 | this.
21:39 | >> Do we have to do three separate motions?
21:44 | >> No, I don't think so. No, it's just one
21:46 | item. It's we have to hit the October
21:48 | 1st deadline pretty much.
21:50 | >> Second.
21:52 | >> All in favor?
21:54 | >> I Andrew, thank you for stepping up
21:56 | because if you don't have enough on your
21:57 | plate already, it's another
22:00 | >> mandated by the state. So, [laughter]
22:08 | Thank you for volunte.
22:34 | report.
22:35 | >> Well, we have the We have a 655.
22:38 | >> We don't have a seven. We only have a
22:40 | 655.
22:42 | >> Good.
22:44 | >> I see.
22:45 | >> Oh, don't you want to hold
22:48 | >> Oh, you want He wants to move that one.
22:51 | >> You want to do that one last
22:56 | >> chair? What about our period update?
22:58 | Andrew's update.
23:00 | >> I [laughter]
23:02 | >> Andrew Andrew Andrew
23:05 | this morning at 7:30 and he has
23:08 | number six.
23:08 | >> It's usually quick.
23:11 | >> I was going to suggest that one.
23:13 | >> Do I do six?
23:16 | >> By the time we uh keep talking about
23:18 | these, I got to
23:21 | [laughter]
23:23 | >> All right, I'll hit number six. All
23:25 | right, so
23:27 | process for changing fees from uh death
23:29 | certificates and dog licenses for
23:31 | seniors and veterans. As requested by
23:33 | the board at its meeting on August 25th,
23:36 | the board requested that I further
23:37 | investigate the process by which the
23:39 | town may reduce fees for death
23:40 | certificates to zero and create dog
23:43 | license exemptions for seniors and
23:45 | veterans. For death certificates, um I
23:48 | included a lot of background history on
23:52 | kind of, you know, the you know, how the
23:56 | um
23:57 | >> fees
23:58 | >> fees have been established in the past
23:59 | and it's essentially back in 1981 they
24:02 | was adopted at being $2. Um in 1992
24:07 | sorry by up to 1992 it was $3. After
24:10 | 1992 we adopted mass general law chapter
24:13 | 40 section 22F which then granted the
24:16 | authority to municipal boards and
24:17 | officers to establish fees. So after
24:21 | that point uh the fee was increased up
24:25 | to I believe what is now
24:28 | at its current rate I think $ five
24:29 | dollar. Um
24:32 | so by reading the general law it doesn't
24:34 | appear that there is any restriction to
24:35 | the elected body to vote on reduce the
24:38 | fee for a service by the town clerk
24:39 | below that threshold established under
24:41 | uh master general law chapter 26234.
24:44 | Um I have asked council to apply but I'm
24:47 | still waiting a formal response from
24:48 | him. Um but it seems that if the elected
24:52 | board determines that that is a
24:54 | reasonable fee then that is can be a
24:56 | determination made uh for dog licenses.
24:59 | Uh essentially it they are established
25:02 | under general bylaws chapter 110-2.
25:06 | Um it then has our uh you know which
25:09 | outlines that the male and female are
25:12 | $20. Senior citizens of 65 and over is
25:15 | $17.
25:16 | um senior citizens 65 and o older that's
25:20 | spayed or neutered is $8. Um and then
25:23 | that the town had adopted the statutes
25:25 | uh under Mass General Law chapter 140
25:28 | section 139 to section C to essentially
25:32 | grant the two exemptions that are under
25:34 | there for service animals and for
25:38 | anybody over the age of 70. So anybody
25:39 | over the age of 70 is not charged a fee.
25:42 | Um what I'm waiting for some explicit
25:46 | direction from council on is whether or
25:48 | not the board or t the town can create a
25:51 | additional exemption that is not
25:54 | recognized under Mass General law but a
25:56 | change to that fee whether or not it's
25:59 | created exemption or changing the fee
26:00 | itself has to go to town meeting.
26:05 | [clears throat]
26:05 | >> Thank you Andrew. So I guess I'll take
26:07 | it in two parts.
26:10 | So then I would like to make a motion to
26:13 | make uh death certificates zero dollars.
26:17 | Um I just have always thought and anyone
26:20 | who knows me knows I've always been
26:22 | opposed to nickel and dimeing people. Um
26:25 | and this one especially because it's
26:28 | during what is I think realistically
26:32 | one of the most traumatic times in
26:34 | people's lives. They're going through a
26:36 | lot. There's a lot of stress, a lot of
26:38 | emotion.
26:39 | And I think nickel and dimeming them and
26:41 | and when you have to get things when
26:43 | someone dies, it's not just one copy. It
26:45 | could be five copies. It could be 20
26:47 | copies. You need one for every loan,
26:49 | every credit. It's just it's a difficult
26:51 | time and I just think we should make
26:53 | that as easy and as we can and I don't
26:56 | think we should be charging for that. Um
26:58 | so that would be my first motion. I'll
27:01 | keep that separate from the dogs.
27:05 | Oh, and uh so people know
27:09 | The total
27:11 | number of death certificates pulled runs
27:15 | pretty consistent 2023 through now. Uh
27:19 | averaging around 2,800 I'm sorryund
27:22 | that's a lot. 165 average uh sorry this
27:26 | dog licenses
27:28 | I have my glasses right here. That is
27:30 | the death certificate. It averages 165
27:33 | certificates a year. But the breakout
27:36 | for cost is not broken out. But the
27:38 | total combined birth certificate, death
27:41 | certificate, married certified copies,
27:43 | everything. All of it only comes to uh
27:46 | average of 75 7700 a year. So zeroing
27:50 | out death certificates
27:52 | financially wouldn't even be really
27:54 | noticed.
27:56 | Just so people have that information.
27:58 | >> So you you have this. So you want to do
28:00 | two separate motions,
28:01 | >> right? Motion is just for the to zero
28:03 | out
28:04 | >> $0 for death certificates. Yes. For
28:07 | >> a second on that.
28:08 | >> Second.
28:10 | >> Any further discussion?
28:12 | >> No.
28:13 | >> All those in favor of David's motion to
28:16 | zero out the districts.
28:17 | >> I
28:18 | >> I
28:20 | >> I
28:22 | unanimous.
28:23 | >> Thank you. And Mr. Chair, my other
28:24 | motion would be to ask Andrew if and
28:27 | this board if they would consider
28:28 | putting a placeholder
28:30 | uh on the town warrant for uh the dog
28:34 | licenses because we're still waiting to
28:35 | hear from council. So,
28:38 | we really can't talk about it. We don't
28:40 | know which way we're turning. So, I'd
28:43 | just like to keep a placeholder so if
28:44 | council says we have to take a left,
28:46 | we're prepared and don't have to wait
28:47 | another six months.
28:50 | >> Do you um have a question? Is that a
28:53 | bylaw amendment that would need to be
28:56 | made?
28:57 | >> We're waiting to find out because then
28:58 | it would have to be on the At at minimum
29:01 | it would have to be a bylaw change,
29:03 | >> right? So it would have to be on the
29:04 | warrant.
29:05 | >> But through the exercise we did learn
29:06 | that there are discounts already for
29:08 | seniors.
29:09 | >> Yes.
29:10 | >> Kind of took off the urgency of it a
29:12 | little bit.
29:14 | >> Yeah. I'd like to see if we can get a
29:15 | placeholder and I'll give this
29:17 | information to everybody while we're
29:18 | here as well. But
29:21 | I also do not believe we should be
29:23 | charging seniors or veterans for canine
29:25 | companionship.
29:26 | To Mr. Cronis's point, yes, over a
29:28 | certain age, but seniors do start a
29:30 | little younger. And a veteran doesn't
29:32 | have to be a senior. And anyone who's
29:33 | been in combat, even family members of
29:36 | those who have been in combat, I think
29:38 | would stress the importance of having
29:40 | that available. Um, and why are we
29:42 | putting any any obstacles at all,
29:45 | whether financial, regardless of cost.
29:47 | The goal here also is not to remove late
29:50 | fees or kennel licenses. If you don't
29:52 | and you still have to license, but if
29:54 | you don't license, you still pay all the
29:55 | late fees. Um, but if you're a senior or
29:57 | a veteran, I don't believe you should
29:59 | have to pay for the privilege, if you
30:01 | will, I'm sorry, of K9 companionship. We
30:04 | average about 2800
30:07 | dog licenses a year and we average
30:10 | around 27,000
30:13 | a year in dog licenses. That's total for
30:16 | everyone. So again, u if we find out
30:21 | that we're able to um just zero out
30:23 | seniors, whether it's 65 or whatever we
30:26 | use for senior center, everything else
30:28 | um and veterans, that that is my
30:30 | request. I just don't know if it has to
30:32 | be how we have to go through this.
30:37 | >> Um you know what? Well, I'm just
30:38 | thinking while you were talking, if this
30:40 | is a bylaw, we have a bylaw review
30:42 | committee going through process now.
30:45 | Do we want to make the recommendation to
30:47 | them or do we want to
30:50 | >> No, because it still has to go through
30:51 | the warrant. So, it could be a
30:52 | recommendation, but that will have to
30:54 | wait for a year.
30:55 | >> It would have to be probably.
30:57 | >> Yeah. So, if the board would would
30:59 | consider it, I'm just asking for a
31:01 | placeholder
31:03 | >> for this warrant.
31:04 | >> Yeah. And if we have what we need, then
31:06 | we can actually have a vote on it. And
31:08 | if we don't, pass over it definitely.
31:14 | kind of cutting those.
31:16 | >> I Yeah, I I
31:18 | I'm okay with it. I I prefer to wait
31:20 | until we have the answer, but we can
31:22 | always pass over,
31:23 | >> right? We just, you know, table it
31:25 | indefinitely or pass over. Take no
31:27 | action.
31:28 | >> Is there a motion? Second on that.
31:31 | >> Second. Put the placeholder on the
31:34 | warrant. Yes. All
31:35 | >> in favor?
31:37 | >> I
31:38 | >> Do you think we'll have that next
31:39 | meeting?
31:40 | >> I hope so. I asked last week. So
31:42 | >> I I asked the questions last week. So
31:44 | I'm hoping to have the answer for you.
31:45 | >> Can you take a vote pending the result?
31:47 | >> We can I mean next next meeting anyway
31:50 | you will consider you could always take
31:52 | things off the warrant. So you just
31:55 | can't add it on without reopening.
31:58 | >> Hurry up and wait.
32:03 | >> Okay.
32:07 | >> All right. 655
32:09 | at 7 o'clock.
32:10 | >> Yeah.
32:12 | >> Chapter 61A removal request for parcel
32:14 | ID 10-B-2.8
32:16 | G road owned by St. Mark Coptic Orthodox
32:19 | Church attaches a request from Francis
32:21 | A. Nero Esquire on behalf of St. Mark
32:23 | Coptic Orthodox Church requesting remove
32:25 | from chapter 61B approximately 2.47
32:28 | acres of land as shown on assessor's map
32:31 | 10 block B lot 2.8 located on Gould
32:34 | Road. The planning board, board of
32:36 | assessors, conservation commission, and
32:38 | water sewer commission have all reviewed
32:40 | the request and have no objection to the
32:41 | TA Charlton choosing not to exercise the
32:43 | right of first refusal for this request.
32:46 | The chairman should open the public
32:47 | hearing by [snorts] reading the attached
32:48 | public hearing notice. I'd recommend the
32:50 | board not exercise the right of first
32:52 | refusal for this property.
32:54 | >> Okay, the public hearing notice. Please
32:56 | be advised that the Charlton Select
32:57 | Board will hold a public hearing on
32:59 | Tuesday, September 8th, 2026 at 6:59
33:03 | p.m. at the Charlton Town Hall meeting
33:05 | room 137 Main Street, Troutton, Mass to
33:08 | on a request by Frank Nero, Esquire on
33:11 | behalf of St. Mark Coptic Orthodox
33:13 | Church, who intends to sell the land,
33:16 | which consists of approximately 2.47 47
33:18 | acres
33:20 | for for other use located on Gould Road
33:23 | sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh
33:23 | sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh
33:23 | sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh
33:23 | shown on the assessor's map 10-B2.8
33:27 | as recorded in the Worcester District
33:29 | Registry of Deeds book book 19160, page
33:33 | 94. Any interested
33:37 | parties should appear at the time and
33:39 | date specified or submit concerns in
33:41 | writing prior to the hearing. Do we have
33:43 | any requests in writing on this?
33:45 | >> I don't believe so. No. Is there anyone
33:47 | here to talk on this topic or
33:50 | hearing? None. We take a
33:55 | motion to close the public hearing.
33:58 | >> Second.
33:59 | >> All in favor? I
34:01 | >> I
34:02 | >> and then take a vote a motion to not
34:05 | accept or accept the
34:09 | >> Andrew's Andrew's recommendation was not
34:11 | to
34:14 | >> second exercise the first refusal right
34:19 | >> first and second all in favor
34:21 | >> I
34:21 | >> I
34:22 | >> okay and moving on
34:26 | >> in the next 7 o'clock appointment was
34:29 | for 508 was postponed
34:32 | until
34:33 | >> 922
34:36 | >> 9:22
34:41 | and that brings us to back to
34:47 | >> senior center take it.
34:49 | >> All right.
34:51 | All right. So timeline for action on
34:53 | proposed senior center as requested by
34:55 | the board at its meeting on August 25th.
34:57 | I perfor prep prepared the attach report
34:59 | outlining potential time frame and
35:01 | development options for consideration in
35:03 | evaluating the feasibility of a new
35:04 | senior center. The report examines two
35:07 | potential development pathways. One
35:08 | being the acquisition and redevelopment
35:10 | of the Trump furniture building or two
35:12 | new acquisition or new construction on
35:14 | town owned property. For each pathway,
35:17 | the report identifies potential funding
35:18 | and development tracks as well as two
35:20 | implement implementation approaches. a
35:23 | full project approval and development
35:25 | process or phased approach. The report
35:28 | also outlines the anticipated
35:29 | advantages, challenges and risks
35:31 | associated with each option. Uh the
35:33 | intent of this report is to provide the
35:35 | board with a framework for discussion
35:36 | and decision making as it as it
35:39 | considers the potential development of a
35:40 | new senior center and the various paths
35:43 | available to it.
35:44 | >> Okay. And this is probably a time for
35:46 | you to
35:48 | >> Yeah, sure. Sure.
35:56 | chair of the senior community center
35:59 | feasibility committee
36:01 | >> man on the feasibility committee and
36:05 | five pie
36:06 | >> okay so first of all I want to thank
36:08 | Andrew for putting this together did a
36:10 | [clears throat] nice job with the four
36:11 | options
36:12 | >> um and a couple of updates I have since
36:14 | the last meeting um one is that there
36:17 | was a price reduction of the property
36:19 | from 1.8 to 1.6 6 million and I don't
36:22 | know that that was in all the four
36:24 | options or in the in in that document.
36:26 | Let's put it that way. I think some
36:27 | places it was in there and some places
36:29 | it wasn't. So there was actually
36:30 | >> we were at 1.8 we're at 1 1.6 and also
36:34 | the tax value because people were
36:35 | discussing that the last time too but
36:37 | what the property up there is worth and
36:39 | the tax value on that property is 1.3
36:41 | million. So, um, and another thing is
36:44 | that the owner has agreed to remove the
36:48 | white building to do the demo and remove
36:50 | the white building. So, the town
36:52 | wouldn't have to pay for that.
36:54 | And yeah, and if there's any issues with
36:57 | anything obviously like asbestous or
36:59 | anything like that, then they'll be
37:00 | taking care of it. But they're they're
37:02 | not going to like prep the property in
37:04 | any way. It would be strictly getting
37:06 | that tear down and get it out of there.
37:09 | Um,
37:11 | also
37:12 | not as important, but um, Lero had
37:15 | erroneously put that the property was
37:17 | 2.2 acres and it's actually 3.68. So,
37:20 | it's it's bigger than they had said. And
37:23 | lastly on the updates, um our surveys
37:26 | that came back had shown that well over
37:28 | 90% of the people that returned it and
37:30 | said that they don't really care if it's
37:32 | in the town center if it's if it's
37:34 | downtown because geographically was so
37:36 | big everybody has to drive there anyway.
37:39 | >> What was Can you Can you put your
37:41 | >> basically they they uh they don't care
37:43 | if it's in the town center or near the
37:45 | downtown. Most of the people that
37:47 | responded said that because
37:49 | geographically Chelton is so big you
37:51 | have to drive there anyway. Um so
37:55 | regarding the four options, our
37:56 | committee got together and had a meeting
37:58 | and we voted and we are still
38:01 | recommending the full purchase and
38:03 | renovation to be a placeholder, you
38:06 | know, for the for the warrant in
38:08 | October.
38:09 | Um and you know, we went through all the
38:12 | various pros and cons of that. that, you
38:14 | know, we have different reasons for why
38:15 | we don't want the other ones, the phased
38:16 | in furniture store. First of all, it
38:18 | involves two town meetings and an
38:20 | election and we could end up with
38:22 | another piece of property and end up not
38:24 | doing anything on it. Another piece of
38:26 | property with a building like arts and
38:27 | activities and then not get the
38:29 | renovation money later. So, we really
38:31 | didn't like that option.
38:33 | um the new build on the arts and
38:35 | activities, it displaces the community
38:37 | that's using it now, which is a lot of,
38:39 | you know, musical programs and things
38:42 | like that, which kind of pits the
38:44 | seniors against whoever's using it. And
38:47 | that plan doesn't plan for an expansion
38:51 | for for community center. So, that would
38:53 | cost more money. Um, and that one also
38:56 | requires two town meetings and a and a
38:58 | debt exclusion uh vote. And then lastly,
39:02 | the new build at the Masonic Home Road.
39:04 | Um potentially the negotiation with
39:06 | Overlook could could fail. We don't know
39:08 | that they're going to agree to let us
39:10 | put a senior center over there because
39:12 | that was a
39:12 | >> I don't think we need to purchase it.
39:13 | >> I think we do. I think it has to be
39:15 | negotiated because they had agreed to to
39:17 | do it based on a a public safety
39:19 | building going.
39:20 | >> That was due to the old municipality
39:22 | >> usage on that land.
39:23 | >> Yeah, I thought it was I thought it was
39:25 | deed to
39:25 | >> As long as we use it for
39:27 | >> I thought it was already deeded to the
39:28 | town. The town currently holds a deed
39:30 | and was paid compensation for the
39:32 | property. There's a
39:34 | >> caveat within the language that
39:35 | basically says if the town does not take
39:37 | action for the intended use at that time
39:39 | was a senior was the
39:42 | >> public safety building that they had the
39:44 | option to purchase it back for the same
39:46 | purchase cost.
39:46 | >> But he didn't yet
39:48 | >> within a five within five or it was like
39:52 | after five years if the town had not
39:54 | taken action. So, it's not to say that
39:57 | we couldn't go back and we've revised
39:58 | our plan and
40:00 | >> make sure that we're all
40:01 | >> on the same page, but
40:04 | >> u you know, it's a it's a consideration
40:06 | that would have to be taken through the
40:08 | chat. That's why it's on here.
40:09 | >> Okay. So, so anyways, that was it. And
40:11 | also, that one is a two two town meeting
40:13 | plus a debt exclusion. The only one that
40:15 | isn't is is the full purchase and
40:18 | renovation. That's one town meeting.
40:20 | So the town meeting would be October and
40:21 | then the May election um for the debt
40:25 | exclusion and also with the topography
40:27 | from what I understand because the
40:29 | public safety feasibility did a big
40:31 | analysis over there of that property
40:33 | that in itself is an advantage but we we
40:36 | don't know that there won't be issues.
40:38 | So, even though the furniture store is
40:40 | our full purchase is our first choice,
40:44 | um we really couldn't decide if there
40:46 | was a second choice between the other
40:48 | two because we don't have enough
40:49 | information to to make that decision at
40:51 | this time. But I mean, if you guys can
40:53 | put something just generically as a
40:55 | placeholder or how however you do that
40:56 | to put an article on the October
40:58 | meeting, then
40:59 | >> and
41:01 | the the plan that Lero has suggested for
41:04 | the [clears throat] furniture center um
41:07 | meets one of our important criteria and
41:09 | that is that that the building be
41:11 | designed for use by the whole community
41:14 | in addition to the seniors and that
41:16 | that's built in to this uh building
41:19 | plan. Um,
41:22 | I don't know if that is going to add to
41:23 | the cost of the other options, but we've
41:26 | already got that that's already built in
41:28 | and that really is our hope that it's
41:31 | that, you know, again, seniors use it
41:32 | during a dedicated time and then it's
41:34 | open to the community for meetings. And
41:36 | I think I mentioned at the last meeting
41:38 | when we opened up a senior community
41:39 | center in Newburyport, the school
41:41 | committee held their meetings there. A
41:42 | number of town uh committees and
41:45 | commissions would meet there in addition
41:47 | to people coming in for everything from
41:49 | uh lectures to uh movie nights.
41:53 | So um we like that part of the plan.
41:58 | >> And at home day we got a lot of feedback
42:00 | from people saying that they would
42:02 | really love to see a community center.
42:04 | through the be a piece of it
42:05 | >> and through the chair. I just I did want
42:07 | to say one thing. So, um I was the I was
42:10 | appointed by my peers to serve on the
42:12 | committee and advisory capacity and I've
42:16 | been very impressed by the work that
42:17 | they've done in what three or four years
42:19 | now.
42:19 | >> That's been four years.
42:20 | >> Yeah. And and I want to thank Andrew
42:22 | again for the comprehensive
42:25 | choices that he provided. Um, I 100%
42:29 | back what you are recommending and
42:30 | respectfully ask my peers, you know,
42:33 | move this project forward so the voters
42:35 | can decide yay or nay that they're
42:38 | actually the taxpayers and we're going
42:39 | to be footing the bill. But you've done
42:41 | your due diligence. you've you've you've
42:44 | done so much and and I know myself after
42:46 | I listened to you today your meeting. Um
42:51 | I was absolutely convinced that in
42:53 | looking at all the information like you
42:55 | know this is that building is up at the
42:57 | Charlton the old Charlton furniture site
42:59 | is going to address the needs for the
43:01 | future instead of just trying to put a
43:04 | band-aid on something. Um it also we've
43:07 | invested already a significant amount of
43:09 | money because we asked for the the
43:11 | 50,000 that was used for other things,
43:13 | but the for the for the plans that were
43:15 | drawn up. So, you know, we had that they
43:18 | were had that in the booth up at Old
43:19 | Home Day. Um, and then a nonprofit was
43:21 | formed. I mean, it's just you've got
43:23 | you're off the starting line right now
43:25 | and and I feel very confident and
43:27 | comfortable recommending that this moves
43:30 | forward and thank you for your really
43:32 | hard work.
43:33 | >> Thank you. Thank you.
43:35 | >> Thank you for considering.
43:36 | >> So, I'm a little confused of how this is
43:38 | being presented. So what we
43:40 | hypothetically speaking, what are we
43:41 | voting on to putting this on a on a
43:43 | warrant as a two option deal or just do
43:46 | we have to decide now which truck we
43:48 | want to choose? And to answer your
43:49 | question, both buildings are the same
43:51 | square footage.
43:53 | >> Uh yeah, 13,000 square ft and another is
43:55 | 13,000, 600.
43:57 | >> Yeah. 650,000 is more than 38 less for
44:01 | the other two new build.
44:02 | >> But this is the old building that we're
44:04 | going to renovate. Opposite to the
44:06 | option two is a brand new building.
44:07 | We're going to build to to our likings
44:09 | up to the standards and with the old new
44:11 | materials and not no not demolition,
44:13 | right? We're talking about the land by
44:15 | the Amazon home across
44:18 | >> we talking about the second option.
44:20 | >> The second option that's the land that
44:22 | you were discussing.
44:23 | >> Well, that was that was town owned land
44:26 | that's vacant currently that could be
44:28 | cited for new construction. I just
44:30 | really use the cost per square footage
44:32 | that was provided in the report as
44:34 | >> what would come out for that total
44:36 | >> and through the chair if you look at the
44:37 | summary they all land around the same
44:39 | price as well. So, except this one is
44:41 | the known, you know, a lot more about it
44:44 | moving forward than the others. And I
44:46 | don't know about you, but I don't want
44:47 | to go back to the taxpayers and ask them
44:49 | for more money to study another place
44:51 | that because we even though we studied
44:53 | this and we're recommend well, some are
44:54 | recommending it. We don't we don't want
44:56 | to move forward with that. We want to go
44:57 | look somewhere else. We've been since
44:59 | 1993,
45:00 | >> right?
45:02 | >> Yes.
45:03 | >> I I have a two-part question. Um,
45:06 | one is I don't know the original asking
45:09 | price years ago for the um 2 million
45:12 | >> furniture center.
45:12 | >> I think it was 2.2
45:14 | >> 2.2. So my my question I guess is who's
45:18 | negotiating this? And and I say that
45:21 | honestly because if it started at 2.2,
45:23 | the paperwork we originally saw was two,
45:26 | then it was told we were 1.8, now it's
45:29 | 1.6, and they're going to do a
45:31 | demolition. who's negotiating and and
45:34 | shouldn't we have the final bottom line
45:36 | information brought to us?
45:38 | >> I mean, we can certainly get you that if
45:41 | you want that
45:42 | >> because it just keeps changing,
45:43 | >> right? I think the chair need that. We
45:45 | can we can definitely do that. I mean,
45:47 | we we're just trying to get one of these
45:49 | options on the warrant,
45:52 | >> but we can get you that number.
45:54 | >> It's it might make sense just a
45:56 | recommendation. We're going the right
45:58 | way
45:58 | >> to just put this on the next meeting in
46:01 | two weeks so they can come back with
46:04 | that so Andrew can find out if that's an
46:07 | option for already owned land which
46:10 | means you have to pay a penny.
46:12 | >> I'd like to know before making
46:14 | absolutely me too.
46:15 | >> But through the chair that if you look
46:17 | at the options when you look at
46:19 | everything the end game the end price is
46:22 | about the same. Why would we want to go
46:24 | back just to because we own the land
46:26 | when at the end it's still going to cost
46:28 | us.
46:28 | >> This is a brand new building, not the
46:29 | renovated one.
46:30 | >> But you can't necessarily but you do but
46:33 | but through the chair
46:36 | and and with all due respect the
46:37 | committee's been researching and looking
46:40 | at this and analyzing this with Andrew,
46:42 | with Lero, with with a lot of people
46:45 | we've looked at it for what and just we
46:47 | we're all inter entitled to our
46:49 | opinions. I'm a little more
46:50 | acknowledgeable because I've been with
46:51 | the group, but I think it's um doing
46:54 | them a disservice and a little bit
46:55 | disrespectful not to go along with the
46:57 | recommendation and I'm recommending it
46:58 | as well.
46:59 | >> And so to your point earlier about
47:01 | placeholders, let's put the placeholder
47:03 | on there and if something we shouldn't
47:06 | be complaining about a price going down.
47:08 | >> No, that's what I said. [laughter] We're
47:10 | in the right direction.
47:11 | >> It's going down. That's a good thing.
47:12 | >> Can we just stop here? What what are we
47:15 | asking town meeting to do?
47:18 | We want to have an article on there
47:20 | that's that's going to be for the
47:22 | auction for $14 million
47:24 | >> for the purchase and renovation of
47:25 | >> for the entire project. Andrew for the
47:27 | entire project.
47:27 | >> Okay. I'm I'm I'm um
47:32 | >> so and the risk and it's Andrew spelled
47:34 | it out right on here very well. The risk
47:36 | of doing that is purchasing the pro the
47:38 | property after town meeting and then
47:40 | town and then
47:41 | >> No, that's not the one we're picking.
47:43 | >> We don't want the first option. We want
47:44 | the second option.
47:46 | >> Second one has all inclusive
47:50 | Then why can't we just
47:57 | >> So then we know
47:59 | >> for the chair the risk factor on that
48:00 | one was that for when you know you're at
48:02 | feasibility phase you're essentially
48:04 | taking that risk that you have not
48:06 | created a more substantial set of design
48:08 | documents. Um but so you know there
48:12 | there is the risk of escalation once you
48:14 | get more in depth into you know into the
48:16 | building.
48:17 | Um,
48:19 | but you also can't move on that project
48:22 | until you obtain a debt exclusion vote,
48:24 | which essentially is that would not
48:27 | occur until the May town meeting unless
48:29 | the board was to hold a special election
48:32 | >> or sorry, this annual town election,
48:35 | >> right?
48:36 | >> So you you'd have the authorization in
48:37 | October, but you still couldn't really
48:38 | do anything until
48:40 | >> Right.
48:40 | >> Right. And any through the chair any and
48:43 | I think the committee was fine with
48:44 | that. So the ballot vote would be in
48:46 | May. So that's the two-part, but this
48:48 | gets it started rather than pushing it
48:50 | further down the road because when that
48:52 | happens, as we know, prices go up,
48:54 | things change.
48:55 | >> Nothing's going to happen.
48:57 | >> But we have But without the OC, we need
48:59 | the October vote. We need the October
49:01 | vote.
49:01 | >> Actually, it could go down, too.
49:03 | >> It went from 2.2 to 1.6. Oh,
49:06 | >> we're still we're still right
49:08 | >> the um
49:11 | >> we're still at the part in the position
49:13 | that we're with if we're going to buy a
49:15 | piece of land now it's 1.6 million or
49:19 | use land that we already own that we
49:21 | paid 250,000 for
49:24 | >> but at the end at the end of the day at
49:27 | the end the cost is the about the same.
49:29 | >> How could it be? Look, if you read it,
49:31 | you would see
49:32 | >> he used square footage cost.
49:34 | >> This is a brand new construction that
49:36 | will be on the on the new building.
49:37 | >> Where is it?
49:38 | >> Where is the location that we own?
49:40 | >> It's right police station right across
49:42 | the street from
49:43 | >> this St. Joe's.
49:45 | >> So, I outlined too that you have the you
49:47 | know that you also have a a parking
49:49 | issue at the police department that we
49:51 | need to address and that one of the pros
49:54 | to that potential site is that you could
49:56 | incorporate that with a larger project
49:58 | that helped
50:00 | the police, you know, parking site. So,
50:02 | you have a shared senior center police
50:04 | parking lot.
50:05 | >> Yeah.
50:05 | >> Right.
50:06 | >> Yeah. Expand the police parking lot and
50:09 | [clears throat]
50:10 | >> the secret.
50:12 | >> And it's right right across the street
50:13 | from the overlook right next to the
50:15 | police station closer to the center of
50:16 | town.
50:17 | >> And there's actually I believe the way
50:18 | that split the way that was done is like
50:21 | almost like two properties that are over
50:22 | there. So, you potentially still had
50:24 | room to put another building if you ever
50:26 | needed something else.
50:27 | >> Yes or no answer. through through
50:29 | through the chair. This sidebar
50:32 | conversation we get we need to hear
50:35 | [laughter] I think it's not a sidebar.
50:37 | It's not a microphone. I just asked a
50:38 | question.
50:39 | >> I I would like the um
50:42 | >> I would like the committee to con
50:44 | consider a little more take into
50:46 | consideration that other property on
50:49 | >> we don't have all the information that
50:51 | we need because both of those appear to
50:54 | to to mean it's going to cost more money
50:57 | no matter what. It's going to cost more
50:58 | ultimately cost more money to do
51:00 | something there with the unknowns
51:02 | >> whereas we know exactly pretty close. I
51:04 | mean we have a lot of people losing
51:07 | costs and we already own the land. How
51:08 | can it be more money?
51:10 | >> I mean if you look at the numbers you
51:11 | can see what Andrew has on. It's all
51:13 | laid out again. [clears throat] They're
51:14 | all about 136 137
51:17 | >> right and then and I will go back to
51:20 | they've been analyzing this under it
51:24 | for years and now they examined all the
51:27 | options that was presented. I don't
51:29 | understand the harm. So I would make the
51:30 | motion that we move forward and put this
51:32 | on the on the warrant. Doing so does no
51:36 | harm because we can pass it over, right?
51:38 | and it just allows the taxpayers and
51:40 | it's the entire thing versus you don't
51:42 | in my opinion and the committee's
51:43 | opinion you don't want to get the
51:44 | building first and not have you know the
51:48 | money to renovate it and again you
51:50 | looked my frustration is you did all of
51:52 | your due diligence you looked at it and
51:54 | I understand questions I had questions
51:56 | too
51:57 | >> we appointed them
51:58 | >> Karen you made a point thank you if if I
52:01 | may chair I just want to point out that
52:02 | even if the cost were the same to the
52:04 | penny there's an old saying in real
52:06 | estate about location, location,
52:07 | location. And if I have a senior center
52:09 | that's right next to a fire department
52:10 | and a police station, I think that's a
52:12 | strong benefit. So, I'm just going to
52:14 | put out there, people can argue all they
52:16 | want tonight, but you know, the
52:19 | committee themselves admit they don't
52:20 | even have all the information on that
52:22 | property yet because they it was the
52:24 | last minute there. They don't have that
52:25 | yet. To me, two weeks is is
52:29 | if the if the price changes to build a
52:31 | building in two weeks, we have bigger
52:32 | problems. Um, if we're voting on this
52:34 | tonight, I'm a no. because I want to
52:37 | know if Andrew can talk to them about
52:40 | using. It's not a question of need.
52:42 | Everyone agrees.
52:44 | >> But if Andrew has an opportunity to talk
52:45 | to them to find out if we have access to
52:47 | that land that we already own,
52:49 | regardless if the end price is the same,
52:52 | there are other benefits that could
52:53 | benefit the town in way more ways if we
52:56 | do it there. Plus, then we have a senior
52:58 | center right next to fire and police. I
52:59 | think it's I want to know about that
53:01 | before I make any decision.
53:02 | >> And Andrew brought up an interesting
53:04 | point, too, with the police station.
53:05 | park. That's something we're going to be
53:07 | facing. Um if you go there, if you go by
53:09 | there now, we were there this morning.
53:11 | They're parked on the grass.
53:13 | >> Can I Steve? Steve through the through
53:15 | the through the chair. Pat, um do you
53:18 | have anything on the land itself? Any
53:19 | type of the wetlands in the back? Any
53:21 | type of any contamination? Anything?
53:23 | Where is this?
53:24 | >> There there are actually there's
53:25 | wetlands behind every one of these
53:26 | properties. There's wetlands there.
53:28 | >> But where where is that for us to read?
53:30 | Is that do you have any material? Did
53:32 | you did you examine the land itself is
53:34 | what I want to know?
53:34 | >> No. All we All we had for the other two
53:36 | options of the properties that are owned
53:38 | by the town was what we got from.
53:40 | >> So, so, so now we So there's not two
53:42 | acres now. It's three three acres.
53:44 | >> The one up there,
53:44 | >> right? That's what I'm talking about.
53:46 | That I know about.
53:47 | >> That was 3.6A. And yeah, there there's a
53:49 | site. It was in the L report. There's a
53:50 | site plan that shows exactly where the
53:53 | wetlands wetlands are because they're
53:54 | way down below. And so that first 100
53:57 | feet you can't do anything. And then 200
53:58 | feet you can do limited things. But
54:01 | >> we did bring the coffee
54:05 | shows
54:06 | >> that shows where the wetlands is.
54:08 | >> Yeah.
54:08 | >> Or no, that's the same one we already
54:12 | have.
54:12 | >> No, I thought you have some like a
54:13 | thorough there was some talk about some
54:15 | kind of a contamination at that side. We
54:18 | don't know how. So, but we have it in
54:20 | writing that there's nothing that I was
54:21 | checked thoroughly and there's nothing
54:23 | there to our surprise
54:25 | >> because there was there was a
54:26 | conversation about
54:27 | >> the only thing we don't know about is
54:29 | the house that's going to get torn down
54:32 | but the seller is committed to whatever
54:36 | abatement needs to happen once that
54:38 | house comes down and they're going to
54:39 | take it down
54:40 | >> right because that was an issue last
54:41 | time someone had said so we're paying
54:42 | for a property that we're going to tear
54:44 | down and they're going to tear that
54:45 | building down
54:47 | >> I guess the idea was we're paying Well,
54:48 | today we're paying 1.6. Yesterday we
54:50 | were paying 1.8. So, but we were paying
54:53 | that again for two or three acres with
54:57 | some wetlands of two buildings from
54:59 | which two one will be completely
55:01 | demolished and we have to spend 13.7
55:04 | million to reconstruction the old
55:06 | structure.
55:07 | >> Yes, that's true.
55:09 | >> 13.6 and it's actually it's going to end
55:11 | up being
55:12 | >> Yeah. And that was the issue to begin
55:14 | with. That's for what I remember in my
55:16 | you know since we had that conversation
55:18 | >> say there is another difference in that
55:20 | one purchase includes 24 almost 24 acres
55:24 | of land for that price. So you not only
55:27 | would be getting senior center but
55:29 | almost 24 acres of land which would be
55:32 | conveniently located also near St.
55:34 | Joe's. It would be in it would be like
55:37 | in the heart of everything on a massive
55:39 | amount of
55:40 | >> and the time frame is the same. the time
55:42 | frame would be you you'd still get a key
55:44 | to the door around 2030 is what the
55:46 | >> I think the issues here not to put it on
55:48 | a warrant just how we going to put it
55:49 | and what exactly is going to go on it
55:51 | >> but Andrew has put two weeks
55:52 | >> yeah but so we could do a placeholder
55:55 | for just to say we're going to put it
55:57 | something on the warrant to move this
55:59 | forward whether it's the the one you're
56:01 | talking
56:01 | >> I want to know where it is when I asked
56:03 | for the place I knew what it was to the
56:05 | penny
56:05 | >> right
56:06 | >> exactly the details I want to know this
56:08 | before I put a place on I asked for two
56:09 | weeks if two weeks is too much coming
56:11 | out.
56:12 | >> I'd like to make another comment too
56:13 | about it being near police and fire. We
56:15 | actually asked the fire chief, I believe
56:18 | it was back then, and they said it
56:19 | wasn't a good idea because you don't
56:21 | want seniors with all the sirens and
56:23 | cars racing in and out of there.
56:24 | >> We can have chief's opinion right now.
56:28 | >> 23 acres could be two driveways.
56:30 | >> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, but if if you're
56:32 | talking about like with the two kind of
56:33 | properties you're talking about, if if
56:35 | you're talking about sharing the parking
56:36 | lot, I'm assuming you're talking about
56:38 | the one closest to the police station.
56:40 | But potentially, we could put the senior
56:42 | center over on the other side that's
56:43 | further away from the police station.
56:45 | >> That is a nice sweet.
56:46 | >> Also, they're not lighting up the sirens
56:48 | when they pull out because all the
56:49 | residences and houses right there.
56:51 | They're going to roll out [snorts] the
56:52 | lights and hit the sirens down the
56:53 | street.
56:54 | >> All right, let's do something here. So,
56:55 | Andrew, can we find out about that land
56:57 | and um
56:58 | >> I don't I don't I can't imagine there'd
57:00 | be a problem with it.
57:01 | >> Yeah, I'm I'm sure not.
57:02 | >> It's it's already deed to the
57:04 | >> and then we put it on agenda for next
57:05 | for in two weeks.
57:06 | >> I'm not voting on anything today.
57:08 | >> Yeah. And can we talk to overlook before
57:10 | then?
57:11 | >> Yeah. I mean, I just more or less say
57:15 | >> old issues I want to make sure that are
57:17 | all squared away before we run into
57:22 | about if we can consolidate that into a
57:24 | parking lot for them and maybe get a
57:26 | nice little plan out of this
57:27 | >> and we can all data we have
57:28 | >> and then we're getting a two for
57:30 | >> two for one right or three for one
57:32 | >> and in and the location.
57:34 | >> So if we go go with that wasn't there
57:36 | still a recommendation to put something
57:38 | for October. Um so on that one is
57:40 | essentially it's the the October ask
57:43 | would be to put money for um an owner
57:46 | owner's project manager schematic design
57:49 | development so that way you could start
57:51 | the process of trying to get a pro you
57:54 | know a a further project to be approved
57:57 | later down
57:58 | >> but we can decide that on the 22nd
58:04 | >> I just ask a question just just a
58:07 | process question. Um, if the select
58:11 | board doesn't approve to put this on the
58:13 | warrant, does it is there still time on
58:15 | the 22nd to add it to the war or we
58:17 | pushing it back another whole year
58:19 | >> put on?
58:20 | >> Mhm. So, we have to have
58:22 | >> we put on Yeah.
58:23 | >> Okay.
58:24 | >> Yeah. Yeah. We wouldn't we wouldn't do
58:26 | that. We we'd be putting a placeholder
58:28 | for something.
58:28 | >> So, so we will be deciding on exactly
58:31 | which track we're going to choose to put
58:32 | on a war next meeting.
58:34 | >> Okay.
58:37 | art just senior.
58:39 | >> There you [laughter] go.
58:41 | >> I I would just add that that I really
58:44 | hope you consider
58:45 | >> the other location the other for your
58:47 | benefit as well for the committee's
58:48 | benefit. That other property at 2.4
58:50 | million was already shot down at town
58:52 | meeting a couple years ago.
58:54 | >> That's
58:55 | I'm talking true.
58:57 | >> It was a citizens petition and it was
58:59 | they didn't do due diligence.
59:01 | >> They didn't have that's what we told.
59:03 | >> Yeah, I was there. I voted against it
59:05 | >> because they didn't do due diligence.
59:07 | >> They said we need to do due diligence,
59:09 | get the the numbers and that's what
59:10 | we've done.
59:12 | >> No, we're right back at the same
59:13 | property.
59:15 | >> We don't know what the reasons were that
59:16 | was everybody voted.
59:17 | >> No, it may not seem like it, but for the
59:19 | public at large, my personal opinion is
59:21 | that we are closer than I think we've
59:23 | ever been.
59:25 | >> Absolutely.
59:26 | >> Absolutely.
59:27 | >> Absolutely.
59:28 | >> Thank you. Thank you.
59:29 | >> Thank you.
59:35 | Oh yes, Mr. Sage. Sorry,
59:38 | >> Stephan Sage, Lincoln Point Road. I just
59:40 | want to be really clear because item
59:41 | number seven here says close the town
59:44 | meeting warrant.
59:46 | >> Does that mean you can close it now
59:49 | today and then you can open it again on
59:51 | the 22nd?
59:52 | >> We've done that. We've done that in the
59:53 | past.
59:53 | >> Say this. We can hold We could hold a
59:55 | placeholder.
59:56 | I'm assuming I'm speaking for the board
59:58 | here, but
59:59 | >> get barring this discussion as a
60:01 | placeholder for senior center and then
60:04 | that board language will be finalized at
60:06 | your next meeting or other action taken.
60:10 | >> Items can always be taken off after the
60:12 | close.
60:12 | >> But we because we say that we still
60:14 | doesn't mean that it must go on. It can
60:16 | be removed also.
60:18 | >> But just keeping that
60:19 | >> anything can be removed from the
60:21 | >> right
60:23 | you know that people know it too.
60:27 | We've opened the warrant before it
60:28 | closed.
60:28 | >> Okay. I just want to make sure that's
60:30 | really close the same day.
60:31 | >> The public that's out there.
60:33 | >> Thank you.
60:34 | >> So technically, Mr. Chair, we
60:35 | >> reopen the warrant at any time, too.
60:37 | >> Good. We could always reopen the warrant
60:39 | any time or we simply close the warrant
60:40 | on the 22nd and post it the same day.
60:43 | >> Even problem solved. Just close the
60:46 | warrant till the 22nd.
60:47 | >> I like that. Yeah,
60:51 | >> we still have
60:52 | >> in the next next item is board
60:55 | deliberate version of vote to close the
60:59 | meeting.
61:02 | >> Never mind.
61:02 | >> So, we think about
61:03 | >> add we got to add the ones that were
61:05 | asked to add tonight. So,
61:07 | >> plus we've received the citizens
61:09 | petition vote. So, if the board wants to
61:12 | wait until the next meeting to close,
61:13 | that's fine. Or you can close it tonight
61:15 | and then reopen.
61:17 | I don't get your idea of waiting.
61:20 | >> I said two weeks. Two weeks and we still
61:22 | post it the same day. We're still
61:23 | posting on time.
61:26 | >> Yeah.
61:26 | >> So, what are we doing?
61:27 | >> I guess I guess it um it would people
61:31 | would have more time to get in citizens
61:33 | petitions between now and then.
61:37 | >> Right. Yeah. There. No, I'm trying to
61:38 | think of the benefits of All right. We
61:40 | don't have to take action on that
61:41 | either.
61:42 | >> I'm hoping Andrew doesn't answer
61:43 | quickly. Me,
61:45 | >> too.
61:51 | Okay. And any committee reports? None.
61:54 | Town administrator report. Andrew,
61:56 | >> I just want to recognize all the hard
61:58 | work of everybody that got old tom day
61:59 | together. I know it was a big push from
62:01 | a lot of volunteers. Um, unfortunately,
62:03 | I'm apologize. I wasn't able to to
62:05 | attend this year, but um, you know, I
62:08 | happy that we have such a dedicated
62:10 | group of people in this town that make
62:11 | sure it does happen every year. So,
62:13 | thank you to everybody.
62:15 | Any any requests for future agenda
62:18 | items?
62:18 | >> Just cameras.
62:20 | >> Cameras.
62:21 | >> We already voted.
62:23 | >> Cameras here.
62:24 | >> Don't forget because I won't forget.
62:26 | >> Next select board meeting will be
62:28 | September 22nd, 2026 right in this room.
62:31 | 6:30 p.m. I would accept a motion to
62:34 | adjourn.
62:36 | Second. All
62:37 | >> in favor? I I done.