2026-09-22 - Select Board Meeting

Summary

The Select Board opened with announcements (Sept 29 DCRSD special election, Oct 19 Special Town Meeting, Nov 3 state election) and open forum. The chair of the senior community center feasibility committee and Bruce Menon asked that the project be called a "senior community center" and said the Article 5 request is for an engineering design phase, not a feasibility study; the committee now supports either the Masonic Home Road or Dresser Hill site. Resident Rebecca Cousins tried to raise concerns about the fire chief remaining in his position during an ongoing investigation; the chair shut it down as a personnel matter not discussable in open forum, and she said she believes the town is exposed to lawsuits. The board approved the September 8 minutes, accepted with regret Liz LaFrance's resignation from the Master Plan Steering Committee, and unanimously approved the Center Depot Road pavement surfacing bid to Mass Broken Stone Co. ($367,259), the Overlook Fall Festival special alcohol license (Oct 3, 88 Masonic Road; license dates Oct 2-4), the Knights of Columbus Tootsie Roll drive (Oct 10, with Chief Dowd's safety conditions), and a $2,500 opioid settlement grant to Jim FA's nonprofit Adam's Parachute. The board approved an amendment to the Pettals Cannabis HCA Amendment (Charlton Investments LLC) to cure the Cannabis Control Commission's August 21 non-compliance finding by letting the company dispute community impact fee items and pay only undisputed amounts by fiscal year end or 90 days after CCC certification.

At 6:45 the board closed the Special Town Meeting warrant and met jointly with the Finance Committee, voting on each article. Both bodies supported Article 1 (four unpaid prior-year bills: three Veolia water/sewer maintenance bills and a Worcester elevator bill); Articles 2 and 3 (FY27 budget transfers/amendments) were recommended to be passed over; Article 4 capital items were taken as four motions (general government incl. $15,000 South Charlton Reservoir hydraulic analysis, $275,000 police cruisers, fire department F350/Forestry 1/LifePak items, and DPW/highway/cemetery/sewer equipment). Article 5 (new senior center and police department parking expansion design phase, $500,000 free cash for the Masonic Home Road site) was amended to read "senior community center"; after a heated debate in which one member questioned bringing a $500,000 design appropriation forward without a building size or cost, with others arguing the board should let Town Meeting decide, the board voted to support it as amended, with at least one reluctant vote. See Senior Community Center Feasibility. Article 6 (stabilization transfers of $100,000, $50,000, $1M sewer and $400,000 water) was supported; Article 7 (Chapter 110 Animal Control) was amended to a $5 senior fee and $0 veteran fee to preserve an intact/spayed-neutered fee gap per legal counsel; Article 8 (Chapter 155 licenses and permits, delinquent tax language) supported; Article 9 (Sunday alcohol sales, G.L. c.138 s.33B, allowing 10 a.m. openings) and Article 10 (accepting Ashley Road and Amber Road as public ways) supported. The Finance Committee then adjourned.

Next, Russ Jennings and Iris Jennings of 508 International met the board about the August 1 event where overflow parking filled Brookfield Road and neighborhood streets. Russ Jennings attributed it to a "perfect storm" (regional traffic delays, record late registration) and promised a plan; no vote was taken, but the board asked for notice to the police chief a month out, a week before and the day of events, and suggested temporary no-parking/tow signs. See 508 International Event Complaints.

The final item was the town's use of Flock automated license plate readers. Michelle Chalmers (46 Prindle Hill Road) presented the petition (160+ signatures) and asked the board to discontinue Flock, stop installation of four additional cameras, prevent automatic renewal and pursue termination/refund; the binding petition was withdrawn on legal advice and the non-binding petition stays on the Oct 19 warrant. Several residents spoke in favor of ending the contract (citing error rates, neighboring towns dropping Flock, federal access, and liability). Select Board members Steve and Mike defended the system after attending Flock training, and police Chief Dowd and Lt. Gribbons described its capabilities (six stills per second, 30-day retention, plate or vehicle-description searches, national sharing only where agencies permit). Residents and a board member pressed on outside-agency access, audit, and the public records request. The chief offered a live demonstration, and the board discussed holding sessions (including a recorded or Zoom format) before Town Meeting. A motion to make no changes until after education sessions was withdrawn in favor of a motion to table the subject, which passed. The Town Administrator then reported a second GFOA financial reporting award, the Oxford Road fire substation nearing substantial completion (target Oct 2), and a master plan community meeting on Oct 18 at Dexter Hall. See Flock Automated License Plate Readers. The meeting adjourned after announcing the Oct 13 regular meeting. Summary built from ASR auto-captions, which lack speaker labels; names and some motions/vote counts are uncertain.

Issues discussed: Senior Community Center Feasibility, Flock Automated License Plate Readers, 508 International Event Complaints, Pettals Cannabis HCA Amendment, Charlton Fire Department Complaints and Investigation, Special Town Meeting Warrant - October 19, 2026, Death Certificate and Dog License Fee Changes

Transcript

0:03 | Okay, we'd like to call the meeting to
0:05 | order. Welcome to the Charleton Select
0:08 | Board meeting, September 22nd,
0:09 | [clears throat] 2026, 6:30 p.m. Town
0:12 | Hall meeting room 1, 37 Main Street,
0:15 | Charlton, Mass. This meeting is being
0:17 | recorded and broadcast live by Charlton
0:19 | Cable Access TV on Spectrum TV, channel
0:23 | 191, and recording available on the
0:25 | YouTube channel for Charlton TV. Any
0:28 | member of the public who wishes to
0:30 | record this meeting must first notify
0:33 | the chair. If we could stand for the
0:36 | pledge of allegiance, please.
0:41 | I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
0:44 | United States of America and to the
0:46 | republic for which it stands, one nation
0:49 | under God, indivisible, with liberty and
0:53 | justice for all.
0:57 | >> [snorts]
0:58 | >> And Mike, do we have announcements, sir?
1:01 | >> Yes. Announcements for the select board
1:03 | meeting September 22nd, 2026.
1:06 | Dudley Charlton Regional School District
1:08 | Special Education, September 29th, 2026
1:11 | from 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the
1:13 | Heritage School. Sample ballot on the
1:16 | town's clerk town clerk's page. yard
1:19 | waste drop off October 17th, 24th, and
1:22 | 31st, as well as November 7th, and 14th
1:26 | from 10:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the DPW
1:28 | located at 100 Flint Road here in
1:31 | Charlton.
1:32 | Special town meeting Monday, October
1:35 | 19th, 2026 at 7 p.m. located at the
1:38 | Charlton Middle School. We have state
1:40 | election November 3rd, 2026. Early
1:43 | voting begins October 17th through
1:46 | October 29th, 2026.
1:49 | For more information, see the town
1:51 | clerk's page for details. The library is
1:53 | also having a spice drive for the
1:55 | Chip-in Food Pantry from Monday,
1:57 | September 14th through Saturday, October
2:00 | 17th.
2:02 | They are accepting donations of new,
2:04 | unopened, unexpired spices for chipin to
2:08 | distribute with their monthly food
2:09 | pickups. You may drop off spices at
2:12 | either circulation desk.
2:14 | We have been celebrating mushrooms all
2:16 | month long. This Thursday, September
2:18 | 24th, from 6:00 to 7:30 at Dexter Hall,
2:21 | it'll be all about mushrooms. Micologist
2:24 | Jonathan Crayons will be discussing the
2:27 | basic of fungal life and insights on
2:30 | foraging for food and special emphasis
2:32 | on common mushrooms that are likely to
2:35 | be found in our area. At the senior
2:38 | center, they have a blood pressure
2:39 | clinic from September 24th from 8:30
2:42 | a.m. to 10:30 a.m. There's also a
2:44 | monthly grief support on September 29th
2:47 | at 3:30 p.m. Interdimensional by Ronnie
2:51 | Leblanc from the Discovery and Travel
2:53 | Channels is October 5th at 10:30 a.m.
2:58 | >> Okay, thank you, Mike. And moving on to
3:01 | open form. Is there anyone here for open
3:03 | form?
3:06 | Please come up and
3:07 | >> say your name. Hello.
3:11 | >> My name is
3:13 | >> and I'm the chair of the senior
3:14 | community center feasibility committee.
3:17 | Um I just had a few things I wanted to
3:19 | clarify since the last uh select board
3:21 | meeting. Um the proposed article for
3:24 | tonight's discussion says senior center
3:27 | but I want to clarify that it is a
3:29 | senior community center. uh feasibility
3:31 | committee has always been called senior
3:33 | senior community feasibility without
3:36 | plans including community center space.
3:38 | Um and we've also gotten feedback from
3:41 | many residents expressing an interest in
3:42 | a community center which I think I had
3:44 | also mentioned the last time. Um I also
3:47 | want to clarify that the proposed
3:49 | article is not a feasibility study. It's
3:51 | for the engineering design phase. Um an
3:54 | an elaborate topographical analysis was
3:57 | done on the Masonic home road property
3:59 | for the public safety building and a
4:01 | Lero Hill feasibility study was a
4:03 | comparison of three options. The
4:05 | furniture store property, the town hall
4:08 | expansion and renovation and a new
4:10 | build. So this Masonic home choice would
4:13 | be using the new build from that
4:14 | proposal. Um, I want to reiterate that
4:17 | there are 3,960
4:19 | seniors out of a total population of
4:21 | 13,685
4:23 | in town today, which is expected to grow
4:26 | to 5,000 in the next 5 years. And our
4:29 | data indicates that 1194 individuals use
4:33 | the center in some form today. And
4:36 | finally, I want to say the committee has
4:38 | had a little more time to research the
4:39 | Masonic home property. Um, and we
4:42 | support either the Masonic or the
4:44 | Dresser Hill because our goal is the
4:46 | same as it has always been to support
4:48 | our seniors and the community at large
4:50 | with the best possible solution. So,
4:53 | >> thank you.
4:54 | >> Thank you.
4:59 | >> I'll take the seat.
5:01 | >> Yeah. Yeah.
5:03 | >> My name is Bruce Mannon, five Pine Lane.
5:06 | Um, I'm also here asking for support for
5:08 | the senior community center. Um, we are
5:12 | really ready to go. We have web pages
5:14 | set up. Uh, I'm sorry, Facebook page set
5:16 | up. Um, we have
5:20 | t-shirts all set to go. We've got signs.
5:22 | We're ready to go. So, I'm hoping that
5:25 | we are able to leave here tonight and
5:27 | distribute that stuff right out front.
5:30 | >> I think we're probably going to address
5:31 | most of that when we get down to that on
5:33 | the on the item on the agenda, but
5:35 | Anyone
5:38 | else for open forum?
5:40 | >> Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask, do
5:41 | you want us to wait to speak?
5:44 | >> You were on the agenda. So, we just
5:47 | >> Yep.
5:50 | >> Anyone else here for open forum?
5:53 | Hearing one? Seeing none.
5:56 | >> Oh,
5:59 | >> good evening. Um, my name is Rebecca
6:01 | Cousins. I live at 107 Daniels Road. I'm
6:05 | here to um bring to the selectman's
6:08 | attention some of the concerns of the
6:13 | citizens of Charleton about the
6:15 | situation with the fire chief.
6:18 | Um I can tell you as an attorney
6:22 | I have concerns about
6:25 | someone being left in his position while
6:29 | there is an ongoing investigation.
6:32 | I think, you know, I'm going to have to
6:33 | um
6:35 | the board has a policy. The town has a
6:37 | policy and you being inherent, you would
6:39 | understand that that we don't we don't
6:41 | discuss personnel matters
6:44 | in open form.
6:45 | >> So this is
6:47 | >> certainly not an open form. And if we do
6:48 | discuss personnel matters, the board
6:51 | discusses them.
6:52 | >> Okay.
6:52 | >> And in an in an executive session, okay,
6:54 | at a posted meeting.
6:56 | >> So does the board want to know how the
6:58 | citizens feel or do you not want to
6:59 | know? We just not in open form talking
7:02 | about a personnel matter. We're we're
7:04 | aware of the situation.
7:06 | >> I I don't think it's just a personnel
7:08 | situation.
7:09 | >> It's it's a policy. It's it's it's it's
7:12 | beyond a policy. Actually, it's mass
7:15 | general law that we just don't discuss
7:17 | personnel matters in open.
7:19 | >> I'm telling you as a citizen what I
7:21 | know. You can do what you with it what
7:24 | you will. I'm not telling you what to
7:25 | do. I'm just telling you that
7:27 | >> and I'm just explaining the policy and
7:30 | the rules. I can't be
7:32 | >> I would like to be able to say what I
7:34 | have heard and know and what I
7:36 | personally feel about the decision of
7:38 | the board. If you would prefer I just
7:41 | put that in writing then I will be happy
7:43 | to.
7:43 | >> There has not been a decision on the
7:45 | board of the board though. Actually,
7:46 | we're we're we're starting to get into
7:48 | the weaves of this discussion where we
7:49 | don't discuss personnel matters. I can't
7:52 | make that any more clear.
7:53 | >> Okay. Well, I'm just going to tell you
7:54 | and I want to be on record saying this
7:56 | now that I feel the town is being put at
8:00 | risk for lawsuits. So, if you want to
8:02 | consider that just I'm going to have to
8:05 | ask it's a personel matter. I
8:07 | >> Please
8:08 | >> noted.
8:08 | >> Thank you.
8:11 | >> Anyone else for open form with a with a
8:14 | topic
8:16 | other than the last one?
8:20 | Moving on.
8:23 | Approval of the minutes of the board's
8:25 | meeting on September 8th.
8:28 | >> Motion to approve the minutes as
8:30 | written.
8:31 | >> Second.
8:32 | >> All in favor?
8:34 | >> I I
8:38 | appointments and resations.
8:40 | [clears throat] Andrew.
8:41 | >> All right. We received a notice from Liz
8:43 | France that she needs to resign from the
8:44 | master plan steering committee due to
8:46 | family obligations. The board should
8:48 | accept her resignation and a letter
8:50 | thanking her for her her service to the
8:52 | town is in your sign folder.
8:59 | >> Okay. Motion to
9:02 | accept.
9:03 | >> I move to accept the letter with regret.
9:07 | >> Second.
9:08 | >> All in favor?
9:09 | >> I.
9:12 | >> And we are a little early for our 6:45.
9:17 | I'll take the uh first few off the
9:19 | action items list.
9:21 | >> Yeah.
9:23 | >> All right. Uh the first action item is
9:25 | pavement surfacing of Center Depot Road
9:27 | bid award. Bids were open and read for
9:30 | pavement surfacing of Center Depot Road
9:32 | on September 2nd, 2026 at 2:00 p.m.
9:36 | After review of the bid, DPW
9:38 | Superintendent Peele is recommending the
9:39 | board award the bid to Mass Broken Stone
9:42 | Co. in the amount of $367,259.
9:47 | I'd recommend the board award the bid as
9:50 | requested.
9:52 | >> I would move to uh award the bid as
9:54 | requested.
9:55 | >> Second.
9:58 | >> All in favor?
9:58 | >> I
9:59 | >> I
9:59 | >> I. It's unanimous.
10:03 | >> Right. The next is a special alcoholic
10:05 | beverage license for the Overlook Fall
10:08 | Festival. attaches an application for a
10:11 | special alcoholic beverage license for
10:12 | wine and malt beverages from Daniel
10:15 | Drager of for the Overlook Fall Festival
10:18 | to be held Saturday, October 3rd, 2026
10:22 | from 11:00 a.m. to 4 p.m. at 88 Masonic
10:24 | Road. The application was forwarded to
10:27 | the police chief, building commissioner,
10:28 | and fire department for review, which
10:30 | all have approved. Per the board's
10:33 | policy, the dates on the license should
10:35 | include the day before the event to
10:37 | allow the alcohol to be delivered, the
10:38 | day of the event, and the day the day
10:42 | after the event to allow any alcohol
10:44 | left over to be picked up.
10:47 | I move to approve the special alcoholic
10:49 | beverage license as submitted by Daniel
10:51 | Darger for wine and malt u beverages to
10:54 | be used for the overlook festival with
10:57 | the dates on the license to be October
10:59 | 2nd 2006 to October 4th 2026.
11:02 | >> Second
11:05 | have a motion and a second. All in
11:06 | favor?
11:07 | >> I unanimous.
11:10 | >> Right. Next we have the Knights of
11:12 | Columbus request for a Tootsie Roll
11:13 | drive. The Knights of Columbus, Charlton
11:15 | Council 11379 is seeking to conduct a
11:19 | Tootsie Roll drive to benefit children
11:21 | with special needs and disabilities.
11:23 | They would like to set up a voluntary
11:24 | toll road on Saturday, October 10th,
11:27 | 2026 from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the corner
11:30 | of Main Street and Masonic Road. This
11:32 | request has been forwarded and approved
11:34 | by the by police chief Dow contingent
11:36 | upon the following safety precautions.
11:39 | All volunteers must wear bright colored
11:41 | vests, yellow, orange, green, or red,
11:44 | while soliciting donations. Orange
11:47 | traffic cones must be set out on Main
11:48 | Street and Sonic Road for a distance not
11:50 | less than 50 ft on each respective way
11:53 | prior to reaching the toll station. A
11:56 | minimum of five traffic cones on each
11:57 | roadway should be put in place at
11:59 | distance no greater than 10 ft apart.
12:01 | and signs warning voluntary toll road
12:03 | ahead must be erected on both Masonic
12:05 | Home Road and Main Street now less than
12:07 | 75 ft from the toll collection area.
12:10 | Should the board approve this [snorts]
12:11 | request, I'd ask you consider including
12:12 | Chief Dow's recommendation into the
12:14 | motion.
12:16 | >> Do I have a motion?
12:18 | >> I move to approve as written.
12:20 | >> Second.
12:22 | >> All in favor? I
12:24 | >> I unanimous.
12:27 | [snorts]
12:31 | >> Sure. Um opioid settlement funds grant
12:35 | application. At the board's May 25th,
12:37 | 2026 meeting, Jim FA came before the
12:39 | board requesting fund funding from the
12:41 | opioid settlement fund in support of the
12:44 | mission of his nonprofit organization,
12:46 | Adam's Parachute. There's currently
12:48 | 10,000 in uncommitted settlement funding
12:51 | under this uh under the opioid
12:53 | settlement. The board approved a grant
12:55 | application with a cap of $2,500 to
12:57 | those that apply if they fit within the
13:00 | guidelines of the use of the funds. We
13:03 | have [clears throat] received one
13:04 | application from Mr. FA for the minim
13:07 | maximum amount of $2,500 to be used for
13:09 | his nonprofit. I have refused the
13:12 | application and it supports the purpose
13:13 | of the funds to be used. I recommend the
13:15 | board approve the request.
13:18 | Do I have a motion to approve?
13:20 | >> So moved. Second.
13:22 | >> All in favor?
13:23 | >> I thank you for your work on that.
13:25 | >> No problem.
13:32 | >> All right. U
13:34 | before we get to our 4 645
13:38 | um HCA amendment with Troton Investments
13:41 | LLC pedals cannabis. The Cannabis
13:44 | Control Commission issued a host
13:45 | community notice dated August 21st, 2026
13:49 | determining that section 5810 of the HCA
13:53 | with Charlton Investments LLC pedals
13:55 | canvas is non-compliant under 935 CMR
13:58 | 500.1804A
14:02 | and CMR 501
14:05 | 58A
14:06 | because it requires payment of a
14:08 | community impact fee prior to the end of
14:10 | the current fiscal year or within 90
14:12 | days of the of the commission's CIF
14:15 | certification. In order to cure this,
14:17 | Charlton Investments LLC has amended or
14:20 | has proposed an amendment to section 5
14:22 | A10 of this agreement to delete in its
14:25 | entirety and replace with the following.
14:28 | The company shall have the right to
14:29 | dispute any community impact fee
14:31 | itemized in municipalities invoice for
14:34 | the licensed year. Companies shall
14:36 | annually pay any undisputed CIF no later
14:39 | than the date of the current current
14:41 | fiscal year or within 90 days of the
14:42 | date of the commission CF certification.
14:44 | Whatever is later
14:46 | is reviewed this amendment and would
14:48 | recommend the board approve.
14:51 | >> Do I have a motion? The motion to
14:53 | approve as written.
14:55 | >> Second.
14:56 | >> All in favor?
15:04 | We are at 6:44. I have a feeling the f
15:07 | camera would probably last a little
15:10 | longer than one minute.
15:12 | >> All right.
15:12 | >> You might want to
15:14 | >> we'll start the 6:45.
15:16 | >> All right. 6:45 meeting with finance
15:18 | committee finalized special town meeting
15:20 | warrant and motions and select board to
15:22 | close the special town meeting warrant.
15:25 | site board is scheduled to review and
15:27 | finalize the special time meeting
15:28 | warrant and motions with finance
15:29 | committee. The board will also need to
15:31 | close the warrant so our office can post
15:32 | it with the town clerk by October 1st.
15:35 | Uh just an outline of each article that
15:38 | was received. So uh article one
15:40 | appropriation of funds uh for unpaid
15:43 | bills of a prior fiscal year. Article
15:46 | two interdep departmental transfers and
15:48 | appropriations for FY27 budget. Article
15:51 | three, amendments to the FY2027 budget.
15:54 | Article four, miscellaneous capital
15:56 | items and related contracts. Article
15:58 | five, we have in here right now, new
16:00 | senior center design phase. I'll leave
16:02 | it up to the board if you want to make
16:04 | any amendments to that. Um, article
16:06 | seven, amend general laws, general
16:09 | bylaws, chapter 110, animal control.
16:11 | Article eight, amend general bylaws
16:13 | chapter 155, licenses and permits.
16:16 | Article 9, except Mass General Law,
16:18 | Chapter 138, Section 33B, sales of
16:20 | alcoholic beverage licenses by on
16:22 | premise licenses on Sundays and legal
16:24 | holidays with sales between 10:00 a.m.
16:26 | and 12 noon. Article 10, acceptance of
16:30 | Ashley Road and Amber Road as public
16:32 | ways. Art and then articles 11 through
16:36 | 14 are zoning amendments to be
16:38 | recommended by the planning board. And
16:40 | article 15 is the citizens petition um
16:43 | non-binding related to automated license
16:46 | plate reader surveillance. So you're to
16:49 | go through each one of these with the
16:51 | finance committee this evening and
16:52 | provide your recommendation after
16:54 | closing the
16:55 | >> after closing. So I would I would um
16:58 | accept a motion to close the warrant.
17:03 | >> Do we close it before? You want to close
17:06 | the warrant so no new articles can come
17:09 | in. You can now make changes to the
17:11 | warrant
17:12 | >> warrant to remove or approve the mask.
17:14 | Okay. So I move to close the warrant as
17:17 | written.
17:17 | >> Second.
17:18 | >> All in favor?
17:19 | >> I
17:20 | >> I the warrant is closed.
17:26 | >> How do we want to handle the
17:27 | appropriation of funds to Well, actually
17:30 | the finance committee has to open their
17:31 | meeting.
17:32 | >> Yes.
17:34 | So I will call a meeting to uh the
17:37 | finance committee to order at 6:45
17:41 | and we have quum.
17:43 | >> Okay. So we
17:46 | >> welcome
17:47 | >> welcome [laughter]
17:48 | to good to see you.
17:51 | >> All right. So article one is
17:53 | appropriation of funds for bill for
17:55 | funds for unpaid bills of a prior fiscal
17:57 | year. We had three I'm sorry if we had
18:00 | four. Three of them were water sewer
18:02 | maintenance uh bills to Violia. We had
18:04 | one um municipal offices and expense
18:07 | equipment for Worcester elevator.
18:14 | >> So if we get started I will entertain a
18:17 | motion that the finance committee
18:19 | support article one as presented.
18:22 | >> I'll make a motion.
18:22 | >> I have a motion. Second.
18:24 | >> I have a second. Any discussion?
18:27 | Ray. All in favor say yes.
18:30 | >> Yes.
18:31 | >> Unanimous.
18:32 | >> Roll call vote because of Zoom or
18:34 | >> Yeah.
18:35 | >> Ray. Yes or no?
18:37 | >> Yes. Ray. Yeah. Thank you.
18:41 | And I would accept a motion from the
18:43 | board to accept article one to support
18:47 | article one.
18:49 | >> I move to support article one as
18:50 | written.
18:51 | >> Second.
18:52 | >> All in favor? I.
18:54 | >> Unanimous.
18:56 | All right. Article article two for
18:58 | interdep departmental transfers and or
19:01 | appropriations for the FY27 budget. We
19:03 | propose no changes to the FY27 budget.
19:06 | So the recommendation is to pass over
19:08 | this article indefinitely.
19:10 | >> I'll make a motion that the finance
19:12 | committee supports article two.
19:14 | >> Second.
19:15 | >> All in favor say yes.
19:18 | >> Yes. Ready? Say yes. Right.
19:21 | >> Yes.
19:24 | And I would I would accept a me a motion
19:27 | from our board for article.
19:30 | >> I move to um support the article two as
19:33 | written.
19:35 | >> Second.
19:36 | >> All in favor?
19:37 | >> I
19:38 | >> I
19:38 | >> I
19:41 | article three would be amendments to the
19:42 | FY2027 budget. Um again, we are
19:45 | proposing no additional changes to the
19:47 | FY27 [snorts]
19:49 | budget uh for taxation increases.
19:54 | So pass over pass over the article
19:56 | indefinitely. Sorry.
19:57 | >> Okay. You're going to pass over. So do
19:59 | we really need to take a vote of
20:00 | support?
20:02 | >> Recommend. You recommended.
20:03 | >> Recommend that we pass over.
20:05 | >> All right. I'll entertain a motion that
20:06 | we pass over article three.
20:12 | >> Second.
20:14 | >> All those in favor say I. Say yes. Ray.
20:17 | >> Yes.
20:18 | >> Unanimous.
20:19 | >> Now this was sponsored by the finance
20:21 | comm. Do we need to take a vote on that
20:23 | as well?
20:23 | >> Yes,
20:24 | >> we do. Okay.
20:26 | >> I would accept a motion
20:28 | >> to pass over on article
20:30 | >> three.
20:32 | >> I'll make that motion to pass over in
20:33 | article three.
20:34 | >> Second.
20:35 | >> All in favor?
20:36 | >> I.
20:38 | >> All right. Article four being
20:40 | miscellaneous capital items and related
20:41 | contracts. We break this into uh four
20:44 | separate motions. Uh motion one [snorts]
20:47 | is the general government side. So, it
20:50 | is $50,000 for grant match and planning
20:53 | funds for the select board, $15,000 for
20:56 | a hydraulic hydraulic and hydronic
20:59 | analysis of South Charleton reservoir
21:01 | from the conservation commission,
21:03 | $50,000 for municipal building
21:05 | improvements,
21:07 | um $80,000 for technology replacements
21:09 | and improvements, and $40,000 to the
21:12 | library for floor carpeting replacement.
21:14 | That would be motion one.
21:17 | Do we have a recommendation of the
21:19 | finance committee?
21:21 | >> Finance committee. I'll entertain a
21:23 | motion. We support article 4 as written.
21:26 | >> We make a motion. Finance committee
21:28 | supports article 4 motion one.
21:30 | >> Second.
21:31 | >> I have a second. Any discussion?
21:34 | There being none. All those in favor say
21:36 | yes.
21:36 | >> Yes.
21:36 | >> Ray.
21:37 | >> Yes.
21:38 | >> Unanimous.
21:39 | >> Okay. And select board on the same
21:43 | motion on the article. I move to support
21:46 | motion one article 4 as written.
21:50 | >> Second
21:51 | motion in a second. All in favor?
21:54 | >> I
21:56 | motion.
21:57 | >> Motion two is police items. Uh the only
22:00 | item for this year are our annual
22:02 | cruiser replacements in the amount of
22:04 | $275,000.
22:08 | I'll entertain a motion that finance
22:11 | committee recommends motion two of
22:15 | article 4. I guess we got to get that
22:16 | specific.
22:18 | >> I motion.
22:18 | >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any
22:21 | discussion?
22:22 | There being none, all those in favor say
22:24 | yes.
22:25 | >> Yes.
22:26 | >> Yes. It's unanimous.
22:30 | >> Okay. And the board of selectment on
22:32 | motion two of article four.
22:36 | I move to support article 4, motion two
22:38 | as written.
22:39 | >> Second.
22:40 | >> All in favor?
22:42 | >> I
22:44 | motion three.
22:45 | >> Yep. Motion three are items related to
22:47 | the fire department. Uh three items on
22:50 | the list for this year. An F350 pickup
22:52 | truck support vehicle in the amount of
22:54 | 110,000.
22:56 | uh $100,000 for the refurbishment of
22:58 | Forestry 1 and 61,000 from ambulance
23:03 | receipts reserved from appropriation for
23:05 | the purchase of a life pack for the EMS
23:07 | car.
23:12 | >> I'll make a motion that the finance
23:13 | committee supports motion three, article
23:16 | 4.
23:17 | >> Second.
23:17 | >> Have a motion and a second. Any
23:19 | discussion? There being none, all those
23:22 | in favor say yes.
23:24 | >> Yes.
23:24 | >> Yes. Ready?
23:25 | >> Yes.
23:26 | >> Yes.
23:27 | >> Unanimous.
23:30 | >> Okay. And for the select board on
23:32 | article four, motion three.
23:36 | >> Make a motion that we support.
23:38 | >> Second.
23:40 | >> All in favor?
23:41 | >> I.
23:43 | >> Right. The last one out of this was
23:44 | motion four. These are items related to
23:46 | um DPW, highway, cemetery, and sewer. So
23:52 | um we have
23:55 | $140,000 to the highway division for an
23:58 | F350 utility bucket lift pickup.
24:01 | $300,000 for an excav excavator with a
24:05 | rotary mower for the highway division.
24:08 | $50,000 for a replacement wood chipper
24:11 | for the highway division. $24,000
24:14 | for cemetery road paving for the
24:16 | cemetery division. $8,000 for K Cabota
24:20 | accessories for the DPWs uh or for the
24:23 | cemetery division and $25,000 for office
24:27 | renovations from the sewer retained
24:30 | earnings for the sewer division.
24:34 | >> Entertain a motion that the finance
24:35 | committee support motion four of article
24:38 | 4.
24:39 | >> Motion.
24:39 | >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any
24:42 | discussion? There being none, all those
24:44 | in favor say yes.
24:45 | >> Yes.
24:46 | >> Ray. Yes,
24:48 | >> unanimous.
24:50 | >> Okay. And for the select board, we have
24:52 | a motion on article motion four on
24:54 | article four.
24:56 | >> I move to support article four option um
25:00 | motion four as written.
25:03 | >> Second.
25:05 | >> All in favor?
25:06 | >> I
25:10 | article five tried to take direction of
25:11 | the board as to the appropriate way to
25:15 | craft the wording for this one. So
25:16 | please tell me if you want to make any
25:18 | changes before posting. But
25:20 | >> no, sorry.
25:22 | >> Sorry. Art five as listed right now.
25:28 | >> Is uh new senior center and police
25:30 | department parking expansion design
25:32 | phase. Uh essentially this is a motion
25:34 | to appropriate $500,000 from available
25:37 | free cash to the stated purpose
25:42 | >> through the chair. Regarding the name
25:44 | that was brought up, I would like to
25:45 | suggest to avoid confusion and to be
25:48 | consistent that we insert the word
25:51 | community after
25:53 | senior. So it would be the new senior
25:56 | community center design phase. Uh this
25:58 | is consistent with what the committee
26:00 | was the select board um appointed many
26:03 | years ago. Um and it's what the chairman
26:08 | mentioned earlier today. It would be
26:11 | their preference to call it. There's
26:13 | enough confusion out there already.
26:15 | >> Yeah.
26:15 | >> So you're suggesting on under article
26:17 | five under a new senior center just the
26:20 | verbat
26:21 | >> senior community
26:22 | >> senior right here center.
26:24 | >> That's what that was the name of this
26:25 | feasibility study that
26:27 | >> actually wasn't actually wasn't the name
26:29 | of the original.
26:30 | >> No.
26:31 | >> No it was the activity center.
26:34 | community.
26:35 | >> It's semantics, but we have an activity
26:36 | center.
26:37 | >> But it's so but but it that's what's the
26:39 | committee was called. But people need to
26:42 | know and I I do I do want to point out
26:44 | too this is just to reference the
26:46 | project. At the end of the day down the
26:48 | road it may not be called, you know, who
26:51 | knows what it's going to be called. We
26:52 | know it's going to be primarily for
26:53 | seniors, but they they have new names
26:56 | for our senior centers now. So that's up
26:57 | to you. Typically, it's up to the
26:59 | building committee or but this is just
27:02 | so when we're referencing the project,
27:03 | it people understand it's senior
27:07 | community senior center.
27:09 | >> Yeah. I think it
27:10 | >> it's housekeeping really.
27:11 | >> Yeah.
27:12 | >> I think my only concern and maybe I I
27:15 | can probably be persuaded on that is is
27:18 | who has jurisdiction over the use of the
27:21 | building. If is is it the community or
27:25 | is it the council on aging that that
27:26 | says when you can use it or
27:28 | >> again this is this is just and the chair
27:31 | can correct me if I'm wrong but this is
27:32 | just to reference it to get the point
27:34 | across that there is in the design by
27:37 | Lero there is a space for the community
27:40 | much like the library we all know the
27:42 | library is the library but it has a
27:44 | space for a community to use off hours
27:47 | etc and of course we all know down the
27:49 | road that comes with policy development
27:51 | but the design um that was paid for by
27:55 | the citizens of the town as that
27:57 | community space. So, we just want to
27:59 | make sure we're being transparent. Um
28:01 | and it it honestly we need to avoid
28:04 | confusion because people are confused
28:06 | enough about
28:06 | >> I think that's I think that's why I
28:08 | asked the question.
28:09 | >> Yeah,
28:10 | >> it's a housekeeping item. Yeah.
28:15 | Is
28:18 | as far as the design of the building,
28:21 | >> people are going to ask what are you
28:23 | what do you want to build there? I mean,
28:25 | when when the chair came up in open
28:29 | form, she said it was um you still had
28:31 | multiple options. You were still looking
28:33 | at
28:36 | >> not now.
28:52 | project
28:58 | >> senior community visibility
28:59 | >> on Masonic home we're only talking
29:02 | Masonic home road
29:04 | >> no I'm asking the question have you guys
29:06 | has has the committee voted on that
29:09 | >> yeah it says it right here
29:14 | >> well and in article five through the
29:15 | chair it says a new senior center to be
29:18 | located on Masonic Home Road. So,
29:20 | >> no one's debating that. It's just what
29:22 | we're going to reference it to avoid
29:23 | confusion in the community. That's
29:25 | >> Well, no, but in her opening in her
29:26 | opening, she said there were three
29:28 | options. So, two options.
29:30 | >> That's what the project,
29:32 | >> right?
29:33 | >> And one of them was a new
29:36 | project
29:38 | new build.
29:40 | And and I believe the chair was was just
29:43 | reminding people that the money was
29:46 | spent and what it was spent on versus
29:47 | because people there's you know well
29:49 | they starting from scratch again.
29:50 | >> What it was what it was spent on was for
29:55 | a feasibility study to see if furniture
29:58 | was suitable for
29:59 | >> No, actually we have to we actually have
30:02 | a design of the building at the inside
30:04 | but the layout
30:05 | >> it was spent on three options.
30:07 | >> Yeah. three options actually for through
30:09 | the chair and I don't know if you want
30:10 | to just because you can
30:13 | >> it was it was a comparative analysis of
30:14 | of retrofitting that building to what a
30:17 | new a new construction would be
30:21 | >> different taking yeah new construction
30:24 | >> so this so this $500,000 that we're
30:26 | talking about would go towards
30:29 | that original plan
30:32 | >> no it's
30:34 | >> whichever one
30:36 | >> so we
30:37 | I I'm I'm more I'm driving down more to
30:39 | one square footage.
30:41 | >> Yeah. And I guess my question is so when
30:42 | are we so we want to push this this
30:44 | through without knowing
30:48 | where we going to appropriate that
30:49 | 500,000 either or
30:51 | >> it says through the chair it says the
30:53 | article actually states construction of
30:56 | a new senior center to be located on
30:58 | Masonic home road right
30:59 | >> and additional parking for police
31:01 | departments. So what's the question?
31:03 | >> So no so this is are we sure on this? So
31:05 | why would Bringing up two different
31:07 | options is where I'm confused. So I just
31:09 | eliminate. So we already eliminating the
31:11 | other option of the furniture store and
31:13 | we just going with the option on the
31:15 | Masonic.
31:16 | >> Okay. Because that is what I was
31:17 | confused because we keep bringing the
31:19 | two options and this and another.
31:20 | >> People didn't understand what the money
31:22 | was spent on. Right. So
31:24 | >> okay, that's what it is. Okay.
31:25 | >> That's all. That's all.
31:28 | >> Okay. So then so so then with what
31:29 | you're saying Karen then we will also
31:31 | change that verbiage here. the new
31:33 | senior center police department parking
31:35 | extension. Right?
31:36 | >> So I I guess I would make a motion if
31:38 | the chair is okay with this that we
31:40 | insert the word that article five should
31:42 | read new senior and we insert the word
31:45 | community center and then and police
31:47 | department parking expansion design
31:49 | phase. That's that's all that's all
31:51 | we're looking
31:51 | >> in both in both places
31:52 | >> just for the word change.
31:53 | >> Yeah, that's it.
31:54 | >> Not not to do with the article.
31:57 | >> I agree. Yeah, that makes it much
31:59 | >> Would you like to second that?
32:01 | >> I second.
32:02 | >> Okay. All in favor?
32:03 | >> I
32:04 | >> I through semantics. [clears throat]
32:07 | >> Favor.
32:08 | >> Do you have a square footage in mind?
32:12 | Because the town meeting is going to ask
32:14 | that.
32:15 | >> But that's not that's not important
32:17 | tonight.
32:18 | >> What's that?
32:18 | >> I don't think that's important tonight.
32:21 | >> Lots of lots of information will be
32:23 | coming out, but to to the chair of the
32:26 | finance committee.
32:27 | >> So, is it my understanding you've
32:28 | changed the you've added the word?
32:30 | That's the new amended motion.
32:32 | >> Okay.
32:33 | >> Then I will entertain a motion that the
32:37 | finance committee support article 5 as
32:39 | amended.
32:43 | >> Motion. I have a second. Any discussion?
32:47 | There being none, all those in favor say
32:49 | yes.
32:50 | >> Ray,
32:51 | >> yes.
32:52 | >> Yes.
32:52 | >> It's unanimous. Okay.
32:56 | And I would for the chair I would make
32:58 | the motion that the select board
33:00 | supports article five as amended
33:09 | >> just for design phase
33:11 | >> for for appropriation of that 500,000.
33:14 | So that was a place the placeholder that
33:16 | was a holder right that we were holding
33:18 | that one for the article five.
33:20 | >> So yeah. So what do we have to think
33:21 | about if you want to
33:23 | >> you have an open motion?
33:27 | >> Can I have a second for dis second for
33:29 | discussion?
33:30 | >> Have a second for discussion.
33:32 | >> I just want to clarify. Second for
33:33 | discussion.
33:34 | >> Yeah.
33:34 | >> So this is that was that's what we're
33:36 | holding. So now just so we're on the
33:38 | same page. So if we support this motion,
33:41 | we supporting the appropriation of of
33:43 | half a million dollars going
33:45 | specifically with a name change to the
33:48 | uh Masonic home. [clears throat]
33:51 | And it would be for the senior community
33:53 | center and police department parking
33:55 | expansion.
33:56 | >> And that is how it's going to be
33:57 | advertised and the t-shirts and
33:59 | everything. It's going to go to both.
34:01 | >> Well, we can't the t-shirt.
34:02 | >> I'm just making I'm being I'm being
34:03 | sarcastic, but you know what I mean.
34:05 | It's not that you're trying to make it
34:07 | sound better for us. So, this is going
34:10 | to be everywhere on the on the on the
34:11 | website, how you going to promote it and
34:13 | everything else in in between.
34:15 | >> I Yeah. Okay.
34:20 | Yeah. So, let's do a motion. That's
34:23 | >> So, this is basically picking up where
34:25 | the other left off. We're not starting
34:26 | from scratch. And that's what's
34:28 | important.
34:30 | >> You're not starting from scratch, but
34:31 | town meeting is going to ask the
34:33 | committee how big of a building you
34:35 | >> Yes. And you have they have and remember
34:37 | town meeting approved town meeting
34:39 | approved the $50,000 to get to this
34:42 | point. And we don't want to stall at
34:44 | this point because that would be going
34:46 | against what town meeting wanted us to
34:48 | do. And now we're going to put it before
34:49 | the voters of the town to see if they
34:51 | want to put the bill because they're the
34:53 | taxpayers. They're the ones that going
34:54 | to be voting the bill. So I don't see a
34:57 | problem letting democracy happen, but
34:59 | they'll have all the answers. I know the
35:01 | committee's got lots of information
35:02 | coming out.
35:03 | >> I I I'm um I'm a little stuck on this
35:06 | one.
35:07 | >> Well, by I'm I'm a little stuck on it
35:10 | only for the We don't know
35:13 | You still have to have an idea of what
35:15 | the the total cost of a building would
35:17 | be. And if we can only use square
35:19 | footage like that, how big of a building
35:21 | is someone's going to ask that
35:22 | >> through the chair that the the design if
35:24 | you looked at it is there and we did
35:27 | Andrew did great work projecting the
35:30 | cost and the time,000 square feet. It's
35:32 | the Lero project.
35:41 | because you can take that and move it.
35:44 | >> Andrew's options, the four options that
35:46 | he had for numbers.
35:48 | >> So the so then you're at 850 square
35:51 | feet.
35:52 | >> I'll note that this is on the basis of
35:55 | the design. Obviously by appropriating
35:57 | funds, you still have to hire a a
35:59 | owner's project manager and you have to
36:00 | hire an architect. Once you bring those
36:02 | on board, you can make you can
36:05 | essentially direct and work with them to
36:07 | determine what is the appropriate size
36:09 | either based off the feasibility or how
36:11 | much you know the the town potentially
36:14 | wants to pay for a building like this.
36:16 | So it may dictate that a smaller
36:19 | building is what is [snorts] necessary
36:21 | to pass muster.
36:23 | >> But we got to put it we got to we got to
36:25 | put it before the taxpayers to see what
36:28 | they want to do. What who are we to sit
36:31 | here and say I guess we could go and say
36:33 | you're not going to re you can not
36:35 | recommend it but I mean to me to not
36:38 | support it doesn't make a lot of sense
36:40 | because
36:41 | >> the taxpayers voted at town meeting to
36:43 | get us to this phase.
36:45 | >> No no it's like
36:46 | >> they voted on 50,000
36:48 | >> correct but not to throw it not to throw
36:50 | it out the window but to get
36:52 | >> this is this is to this is a completely
36:54 | different project.
36:57 | No, it's not.
36:58 | >> It's in a different
36:59 | >> It's the second phase of the of the
37:01 | first 50,000 miss.
37:03 | >> That's the way I look at it.
37:05 | >> This is how things progress.
37:13 | >> Um yes, sure.
37:15 | >> Exactly the way the library was.
37:18 | You had a feasibility study and then you
37:20 | had a design process. design process was
37:23 | with the architect to come up with a
37:27 | design that was appropriate.
37:31 | And so what you're doing is you're
37:32 | asking them to move forward to get a
37:35 | design using 500,000. Is that what I'm
37:39 | hearing?
37:40 | >> Right. Okay. And after that, we came
37:43 | back and asked the town for money based
37:46 | on the design that was presented.
37:50 | >> The town agreed. Yeah, I understand
37:53 | that. But this is But I'm also hearing
37:55 | the conflict that the design is already
37:57 | done. You're using the same design that
37:59 | was done.
38:01 | >> So it's 11,000 ft is what you're shoot
38:03 | it. It it you know what it's
38:05 | >> if we spend 15 minutes here is we could
38:08 | probably save an hour town meeting
38:10 | because people are going to have a lot
38:11 | of questions. What
38:12 | >> they're going to get answers, Steve.
38:14 | This is this is democracy. The town has
38:16 | spent a half a million dollars before on
38:19 | designs that have never been used.
38:21 | Actually, we spent 900.
38:22 | >> That's the town's decision. That's
38:24 | ultimately, look what happened with the
38:26 | public safety building. They ultimately
38:27 | decided not to.
38:28 | >> But we bring it forward. Yeah. Look at
38:29 | what happened. You're right. And we have
38:32 | $900,000 worth of plans sitting on a
38:34 | self on a shelf collecting dust.
38:37 | >> So, you're saying you think you know
38:38 | better than the taxpayers of this town
38:40 | that you're not going to give them the
38:41 | opportunity to Oh, you actually This is
38:43 | just a recommendation. We're rushing
38:45 | this to the point, why can't we just
38:49 | >> Well, you know, you could laugh all you
38:51 | want, but but it wasn't it wasn't the
38:55 | board that kept going back to Charlton
38:58 | Furniture for three years. It was the
39:00 | committee.
39:01 | >> Just point of order. This is not what we
39:04 | should be discussing. It should be
39:06 | >> do we support it because it's on the
39:08 | warrant now, but do because we closed
39:09 | it, but do we support make the
39:11 | recommendation or not? And then we let
39:13 | the people
39:13 | >> Okay. We closed it, but this is just a
39:15 | place. This is just a holder. So, we can
39:17 | remove it just as easy. This is not the
39:19 | one. I'm just saying technically
39:20 | speaking.
39:22 | >> You think that's the
39:23 | >> I can All right. Maybe Maybe we thinking
39:29 | >> to move something forward.
39:32 | >> No, we're going to either move it or we
39:33 | don't want to move it. Support it and
39:35 | move it.
39:36 | >> Okay.
39:36 | >> Okay. Karen, you want to do the option?
39:37 | You do the motion. There's a
39:38 | >> question. I'm we already I already
39:40 | >> I just I just thought that the purpose
39:42 | of tonight's meeting was for this board
39:44 | to bring forth something to the
39:46 | community to make a vote on. And so
39:48 | you're not not necessarily voting as a
39:50 | individual in this town to say you
39:53 | support spending $500,000 in this way.
39:56 | From my perspective, you're voting to
39:58 | say we are going to bring it to the town
40:00 | meeting and let the citizens decide. And
40:03 | so I think that some of the questions
40:05 | you have are very valid, but for town
40:07 | meeting night and not for this time
40:09 | right now.
40:10 | >> Absolutely.
40:11 | >> Yes.
40:12 | >> I think the first question you're going
40:14 | to come up with is
40:16 | >> But is that tonight's question?
40:18 | >> Well, if if
40:19 | >> there's going to be lots of questions
40:20 | you probably didn't even think of and
40:21 | they're all good ones.
40:22 | >> Oh, no. I thought about this quite a
40:23 | bit.
40:26 | >> I've had, you know, multiple years to
40:28 | think about it. Well, I just hope that
40:31 | people will come to the town meeting and
40:32 | they can be educated on it at the town
40:34 | meeting and they can make the educated
40:36 | choice.
40:36 | >> And that's that's the process that the
40:38 | people love and we know from former
40:40 | master plans that were done that when we
40:42 | looked into getting rid of town meeting
40:44 | and going to a different form of
40:46 | government that this is what the people
40:48 | this is like number one. Let us we like
40:50 | the fact we can get on the town floor
40:52 | and have these have these discussions.
40:54 | It's it's it's the process they never
40:56 | want to at that time they didn't want to
40:58 | get rid of.
40:59 | >> Okay. So again, I don't think any of us
41:01 | for five member board can sit here and
41:03 | say
41:03 | >> the risk the committee has here is not
41:06 | giving enough information to town
41:08 | meeting voters to make a decision and
41:10 | you get shot down.
41:12 | >> That's a risk.
41:13 | >> Then you get shot down,
41:14 | >> right? That's okay. You get shot down
41:16 | and that's right. Then they can vote.
41:17 | But you're not going to get those
41:18 | >> make your case against it. It's okay.
41:20 | >> Oh, I'm David. This is
41:22 | >> Yeah, but if I but if I make my case
41:24 | against it at town meeting and I say
41:26 | yes, here I'm a little bit hypocritical.
41:27 | Well, then don't re vote to not
41:29 | recommend it, but leave the article.
41:31 | Please let the let let the article stay
41:34 | and vote not to re
41:36 | >> But I agree with them what Jamie said.
41:39 | But um yeah, let we're all entitled to
41:41 | our opinions, but to block this from the
41:43 | the voters. And I will remind you,
41:44 | >> you know what? If if if there was if if
41:47 | if this is what we maybe
41:51 | can we change the wording on this a
41:54 | little bit
41:55 | >> to what
41:56 | >> to to $500,000 to help
42:00 | facilitate a design that will fit on
42:02 | that space.
42:04 | >> That's what
42:05 | >> that's what it is.
42:06 | >> This is No, but I'm hearing But I'm
42:08 | hearing But you just said the design is
42:09 | already done.
42:13 | So Steve, which is through you, which is
42:16 | good because the layout is done. So some
42:18 | of that 50,000, let's hope, was spent in
42:21 | the right way. So we, that's my
42:23 | understanding, we can take those plans
42:25 | that we already spend the money on and
42:27 | hopefully use it to elaborate on it, do
42:31 | more study and see if that fits in our
42:34 | land on Masonic
42:36 | >> and like like but this is the next
42:37 | phase. So, I would make a motion that we
42:40 | we we support we we support the rec that
42:43 | this article as
42:45 | >> presented with well as amended. I
42:47 | already did that, didn't I?
42:49 | >> And we had a second. Yeah. Okay. Sorry.
42:52 | >> We've amended with the community center
42:54 | next
42:54 | >> and all this does and then just as a
42:56 | reminder, all this does is get it to the
42:58 | people and the debate can happen and
43:00 | then you
43:01 | >> Yeah, that's
43:03 | >> I I don't believe anybody seconded it
43:05 | though. Yes,
43:06 | >> I second this and I said it and I go to
43:08 | what Karen said and this is my
43:11 | understanding that one of the
43:13 | >> most important jobs of select board in
43:17 | my opinion is to put hold and let
43:20 | through the warrant articles for that
43:23 | specific reason.
43:25 | So yes, is a democratic way of some Yes,
43:29 | that's one explanation. What I think and
43:30 | I'm not going to put words in your in
43:32 | you Steve, but what he's thinking that
43:34 | yes, this is our right to not to vote it
43:37 | in. So I want to be clear that this is
43:39 | not that we must to put it on the
43:41 | warrant. We can take it out because
43:44 | that's
43:46 | part of our responsibilities if we don't
43:49 | see it fit. So let's just clarify this.
43:51 | Now Karen made a motion to put this
43:55 | article five on the Warren
43:58 | amended adding
44:00 | >> the community center to the senior
44:01 | center.
44:02 | >> I made a motion to recommend it. It was
44:04 | to to to support
44:05 | >> to support it
44:06 | >> to support it. But you supported it
44:07 | amended. So should Right. So we were
44:10 | supporting amendment.
44:10 | >> That was for the wording change.
44:11 | >> The word it was for the wording change
44:13 | but then we so we had to say we support
44:15 | as
44:15 | >> so that's very clear. So now the motion
44:17 | on at the table is to support article
44:21 | five
44:22 | >> as amended
44:22 | >> as amended.
44:23 | >> And through the chair the last thing I
44:25 | will say just just a general reminder if
44:28 | you look at our organizational chart the
44:30 | citizens you are at the top we are at
44:33 | the next line.
44:34 | >> Correct.
44:35 | >> So you know we want we want those same
44:37 | citizens will might say how can you
44:40 | bring something in front of us if you
44:41 | don't even know how big it is. Well, we
44:43 | can
44:45 | >> we will address
44:46 | >> we will this will all get addressed and
44:48 | there'll be other questions you didn't
44:49 | even think of
44:50 | >> and and it gets addressed, but then the
44:52 | risk is is wasting $500,000.
44:54 | >> But it's up to the people to decide if
44:56 | they're going to do it. Are you are you
44:58 | I don't understand you're wanting to
45:01 | block this from the people who are going
45:04 | to be actually footing the bill. You
45:06 | want to don't you want to ask them? You
45:08 | think you want to?
45:09 | >> So So then so then what what should be
45:12 | should be included in this. What should
45:14 | be included in here is that you want to
45:16 | take the design, the Lero design from
45:18 | Charlton Furniture and move that layout
45:20 | to this spot, this site.
45:22 | >> That's that's what you're asking.
45:24 | >> No, doesn't matter.
45:25 | >> That that is No, but that that's what
45:26 | you just said. You said the design is
45:28 | done.
45:29 | >> No, the point when there was confusion
45:31 | when the chair of the feasibility study
45:33 | came up
45:35 | >> why she had mentioned all the other
45:36 | options just to let the people know how
45:38 | that $50,000 was spent. That was the
45:41 | purpose of saying of all of that. We
45:44 | wanted folks to know the citizens to
45:46 | know that the money that they approved
45:48 | at that last town meeting where it went
45:50 | and it wasn't wasted and this isn't
45:52 | starting from scratch. So they can take
45:54 | that and now it's time to tweak it and
45:56 | get fine-tuned and get the do the
45:58 | dollars
45:59 | >> and there's they have huge P publicity
46:02 | coming out all kinds of FAQs. So let the
46:05 | process happen. I mean not to so that's
46:09 | that's where we are now and
46:11 | >> so we just want to hope that at the town
46:14 | meeting there will be people there who
46:16 | both support the expenditure for the
46:19 | senior center and the people that might
46:21 | not but that's up to these people to
46:24 | decide okay
46:25 | >> you know if we if it's going to I'm with
46:28 | you on this
46:28 | >> I I will ask um I'll I'll support this
46:31 | to get put on the um
46:34 | on the town meeting as a town
46:36 | But I'm going to take the floor and I'm
46:38 | going to ask some questions.
46:38 | >> That's right.
46:39 | >> And hope you ask come to open house.
46:41 | >> How big is it going to be? What is it 11
46:43 | million? Is it 14 million? I don't think
46:45 | >> we encourage they encourage questions
46:46 | and I keep saying that because I'm the
46:48 | non- voting member on the advisory. So,
46:50 | but thank you.
46:51 | >> Yeah.
46:51 | >> Can we vote now?
46:52 | >> Yes.
46:53 | >> So, motion is second.
46:55 | >> Um, all in favor? I I
46:58 | >> I
47:04 | >> have a hard time with the two.
47:06 | >> Yeah, I am. Well, obviously I am too
47:09 | >> because the Yeah, I can't change my
47:15 | >> I
47:18 | >> thank you.
47:22 | >> Moving on to article six.
47:25 | This is for transfer to and from
47:27 | stabilization funds. Um our
47:30 | recommendation on this one is $100,000
47:33 | from free cash to the general
47:34 | stabilization fund to maintain our
47:37 | stabilization fund according to reserve
47:39 | policy. Um $50,000 to the capital
47:43 | stabilization fund for the same purpose.
47:47 | uh $1 million from retained or sewer
47:50 | retained earnings to the sewer
47:51 | stabilization fund and $400,000 from the
47:55 | water retained earnings water
47:57 | stabilization fund.
48:01 | >> All right. I'll entertain a motion that
48:03 | the finance committee support article 6
48:05 | as presented.
48:07 | >> Motion.
48:07 | >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any
48:09 | discussion?
48:12 | There being none, all those in favor say
48:13 | yes.
48:14 | >> Yes. I
48:16 | >> it's unanimous
48:19 | >> and a motion from the board for article
48:22 | six.
48:23 | >> I move that um the select board supports
48:25 | recommends article six as presented.
48:28 | >> Second.
48:29 | >> All in favor?
48:30 | >> I I
48:33 | >> All right. Article seven to amend
48:35 | general bylaws chapter 110 animal
48:37 | control. Essentially, this is the um
48:40 | board's request to add in a u Z license
48:46 | fee for seniors and create a new
48:49 | exemption for veterans. Uh we did
48:51 | receive uh some feedback from legal
48:54 | counsel related to um the original way
48:57 | that you guys had proposed the motion.
48:59 | They noted that because it is not an
49:02 | exemption under chapter M or MGL chapter
49:05 | 140 section 139 that there needs to be a
49:09 | delta between the fee for um an intact
49:13 | dog versus a spade and neutered dog. So
49:17 | we can't do zero on both on both of
49:19 | them. So there has to be some type of
49:21 | fee for uh the senior citizen class and
49:25 | the veteran class. So, I don't know if
49:27 | you guys have any recommendations for
49:29 | that.
49:34 | >> Andrew, do you have a recommendation for
49:35 | that? To make it $5 and zero or
49:38 | >> that was a recommendation that I had
49:40 | received from member not here this
49:41 | evening. So,
49:43 | >> okay.
49:45 | >> To amend as five
49:47 | >> to Yeah.
49:47 | >> Okay. $5 for intact and zero for Okay.
49:52 | >> A motion and a second.
49:56 | Did we get a second?
49:57 | >> Second.
49:58 | >> All in favor?
49:58 | >> I
49:59 | >> I
50:02 | unanimous.
50:08 | >> I I will entertain a motion that we the
50:11 | finance committee supports article 7 as
50:13 | amended.
50:14 | >> Motion.
50:15 | >> Second.
50:16 | >> Motion. I have a second. Any discussion?
50:19 | >> There being none, all those in favor say
50:21 | yes.
50:21 | >> Yes.
50:22 | >> Ray.
50:23 | >> Yes. Yes, it's unanimous.
50:30 | >> You guys take a motion on
50:32 | recommendation.
50:34 | >> Oh, a motion on a recommendation. Do I
50:37 | hear one?
50:38 | >> Second.
50:42 | >> I I move to
50:43 | >> Do I have a second?
50:44 | >> Second.
50:45 | >> All in favor?
50:46 | >> I
50:47 | >> All right. Article A is to amend general
50:49 | bylaw chapter 155 of licenses and
50:53 | permits. Uh this is actually requested
50:54 | through the building commissioner. This
50:56 | is just a mod uh to meet current master
51:00 | law related to delinquent tax uh pair
51:03 | and withholding of permits. Um it just
51:06 | adds in uh so currently the statute says
51:09 | the collector shall annually furnish and
51:11 | we're adding an inmate periodically and
51:14 | then striking out the language for not
51:17 | less than a 12 month period as it
51:19 | relates to uh look bad period. This is
51:23 | just to comply with current state law.
51:30 | >> I'll entertain a motion that the finance
51:31 | committee support article 8 as
51:33 | presented. I'll make a motion.
51:35 | >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any
51:38 | discussion?
51:39 | >> There being none, all those in favor say
51:41 | yes.
51:44 | >> Unanimous.
51:47 | >> And motion from the board.
51:49 | >> I move to support article 8 as written.
51:54 | >> A second.
51:55 | >> Second. All in favor?
51:57 | >> I.
52:00 | Article nine is to accept Mass General
52:02 | law chapter 138 section 33B uh sales for
52:06 | alcoholic beverages on premise license
52:08 | on Sundays in certain legal holidays.
52:11 | Um, essentially what this does is allow
52:13 | the local licensing authority, aka the
52:16 | select board, to um issue the the
52:20 | allowed times for opening on Sundays to
52:22 | go back to 10:00 a.m. Currently, without
52:26 | acceptance of the statute, noon is the
52:28 | earliest time. Believe there's currently
52:30 | legislation on the or not. There's
52:32 | currently a bill before the House right
52:34 | now, it's being considered that any town
52:35 | that accept the accepts this may go back
52:38 | to 8:00, but that's still pending in the
52:40 | legisle. But um first the first step
52:42 | would essentially be to accept this.
52:45 | >> Yeah. Okay.
52:48 | >> I'll accept a motion from the board.
52:50 | Motion to approve article 9 as written.
52:52 | >> Second.
52:53 | >> All in favor?
52:57 | >> All right. And the final one that the
52:58 | board needs to take action on would be
53:01 | relative to article 10, acceptance of
53:02 | Ashley Road and Amber Road as public
53:04 | ways. You previously held your public
53:06 | hearing related to this, so a formal
53:08 | recommendation would be suggested.
53:11 | [snorts]
53:14 | >> Okay. Do I have a motion?
53:17 | >> I move to support article 10 as written.
53:21 | >> Second.
53:22 | >> All in favor?
53:23 | >> I.
53:25 | >> Unanimous.
53:28 | and that the rest we don't have to um
53:31 | rest is you can adjourn your meeting
53:35 | a motion we adjourn the meeting
53:37 | >> motion I have a second any discussion
53:40 | there being none all those in favor say
53:41 | yes
53:42 | >> yes we're returned
53:45 | >> good night
53:51 | >> able to log off soon before we move on
53:53 | to the next
53:54 | >> thanks
54:04 | Thank you much.
54:08 | >> On to our 7 o'
54:29 | Somebody likes me.
54:33 | [clears throat]
54:41 | All right.
54:42 | it being well past 7 o'clock. Um, you
54:46 | have on your agenda Russ and Irish
54:48 | Jennings discussed complaints related to
54:50 | August 1st, 2026 event at the board's
54:53 | August 11, 2026 meeting. Police Chief
54:55 | Dow noted his concerns regarding the
54:57 | event held at 508 International on
54:59 | August 1st, 2026, regarding numerous
55:02 | complaints received from the event,
55:03 | including traffic and parking issues on
55:05 | Brookfield Road interfering with normal
55:08 | traffic flow. Uh both Russ and Irish
55:10 | Jennings have been invited to tonight's
55:11 | meeting and are here uh tonight to
55:14 | address the issues before you along with
55:15 | Chief D. Okay.
55:16 | >> And welcome Russ.
55:18 | >> Good evening Dave.
55:21 | >> So there was an event held at 508 on
55:24 | Saturday, August 1st.
55:27 | That event kind of got overwhelming as
55:29 | far as parking spaces. So the the
55:31 | parkers decided to park in residential
55:34 | areas causing a lot of disturbances to
55:36 | neighbors and
55:38 | like 508 to be a successful business and
55:41 | succeed, but they have to do show a
55:42 | modicum of respect to their neighbors.
55:45 | >> That's all I got.
55:47 | >> Okay.
55:49 | >> Russ, do you have anything to I mean, we
55:50 | did we saw some of the complaints and
55:52 | some of them we got emails.
55:55 | Um, have you figured a way to rectify it
55:58 | or
56:00 | >> um Yeah, of course. uh you know in
56:03 | business anytime you uh you have a
56:07 | problem you always seek a solution so
56:09 | that you know it doesn't exist in the
56:11 | future and that's naturally what we're
56:13 | doing.
56:14 | >> Yeah. Is it just something that got out
56:16 | of hand or or was it
56:19 | >> um
56:20 | you know it it was really a lot of
56:23 | factors. Um but uh you know fortunately
56:28 | we have some answers and uh you know
56:30 | we're working some things to uh
56:32 | alleviate any problems like this in the
56:34 | future.
56:38 | >> Any other questions from the board? I I
56:40 | don't
56:42 | um as far as notifying the town to let
56:44 | them know. That would be a
56:47 | to let to let the town know that that's
56:48 | happening would be a certainly a plus.
56:51 | Was it more employees that are needed or
56:55 | >> um No, I think it was just uh perfect
56:59 | storm if you would have it just a lot of
57:02 | different factors, but uh we've handled
57:05 | bigger crowds and we um you know we we
57:10 | tend to learn fairly quickly from our
57:12 | mistakes and like I say correct those
57:15 | pretty quickly. So
57:19 | >> I guess my my concern is at you know,
57:21 | the number of ticket sales or something,
57:23 | you have an idea of the volume of
57:25 | people. I just think we need it when you
57:27 | get to a threshold, you have to have a
57:30 | now it's time to have a real plan in
57:32 | place, you know, or we'll wing it, you
57:34 | know, because that's what happens. And
57:36 | um again, I want the business to succeed
57:38 | or just just don't want problems in the
57:40 | neighborhood. I have no ill will towards
57:42 | the family. Uh I just can't have
57:45 | neighbors calling saying they can't get
57:47 | out of their driveways and people
57:48 | urinating their lawns and things that
57:51 | because of an overflow of a crowd. Um,
57:55 | >> and Russ, those are legitimate
57:56 | complaints, too. And those emails, we
57:58 | all got them that weekend and the the
58:00 | following week. I mean, it's
58:01 | >> Well, I'm not here to argue that.
58:03 | >> Yeah. Yeah.
58:05 | >> We're just trying to figure out what's
58:06 | going to help it in the future. You know
58:08 | what I mean? Is it more employees
58:10 | getting people in faster? Was it a clog
58:11 | on the driveway because people were
58:13 | parked in the streets? Were you just
58:14 | over capacity or what was it?
58:17 | >> No, I think uh, you know, again, there
58:20 | was There was a lot of different
58:22 | factors. Um, some factors that didn't
58:24 | even weren't even part of our control.
58:27 | There were uh numerous traffic
58:30 | situations
58:31 | well beyond 508 and well beyond Charlton
58:34 | that affected traffic coming to our
58:37 | facility at a certain point in time. So
58:40 | the early rush that normally happens
58:42 | didn't necessarily happen until late
58:44 | because traffic problems elsewhere. So
58:47 | what happened was it was, you know, they
58:49 | staggered these events starting at 8:00
58:51 | a.m. Well, the 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 traffic
58:55 | all got backed up. So as a result of
58:57 | that, that came when it was 9, 10, 11,
59:00 | and 12:00. Um, shortly after 12:00,
59:06 | actually when the detail officer came on
59:08 | duty,
59:10 | there was no problem from that point on
59:12 | because the traffic just dissolved
59:14 | because the peaks went away and those
59:17 | congestive issues ceased to happen. So,
59:21 | when I say there was a perfect storm,
59:23 | there was a lot of things that happened.
59:24 | But
59:25 | >> the parking was Yeah, even it didn't
59:26 | just go away. The parking was still an
59:28 | issue along the sides of the streets
59:30 | blocking the road and
59:31 | >> well once that happens then that's
59:34 | that's an issue until the people until
59:36 | the people leave naturally. I mean when
59:38 | you park a car that's you know so but
59:41 | again we we have uh we have dealt with
59:45 | larger crowds um and know how to rectify
59:52 | the situation in the future.
59:54 | If I may say something.
59:56 | >> Sure.
59:57 | >> Your officers did a wonderful job. Thank
60:00 | you.
60:01 | >> Thank you.
60:01 | >> And some of the neighbors wanted to come
60:03 | up this evening and explain what
60:06 | happened on parts of the Brookfield
60:08 | Road.
60:09 | Some people were taking people and
60:12 | directing them into their driveways and
60:16 | charging them to stay there.
60:19 | So I said, "No, please don't come up. We
60:22 | we're going to what everybody has to say
60:25 | and correct it. And like I said, your
60:28 | men did a fabulous job. Thank you.
60:31 | >> Thank you.
60:32 | >> The only thing that's difficult without
60:34 | any notice is, you know, obviously
60:36 | summer is for everybody likes to take
60:38 | their vacation time. So my staff is not
60:40 | unique to that. They want to be off
60:42 | during the summer. So we typically run,
60:44 | you know, unless we have an event or
60:45 | something, we run bare bones sometimes
60:47 | to accommodate vacation time off and
60:49 | stuff. And when you have a big event
60:51 | [clears throat] and it's tying up
60:52 | offices for several hours, it's not
60:54 | fair. It just it's avoidable. So, we
60:56 | just need to do something in the future
60:58 | so that it doesn't happen again. But at
61:00 | this point, it's water under the bridge.
61:01 | I can't go back and finish J Whoopi's
61:03 | time machine and make things right. It's
61:06 | just
61:07 | >> moving forward. We've got to work
61:09 | together so that doesn't happen again.
61:11 | Do do you have like an idea of how many
61:13 | people are going to show up for random
61:14 | events or is it just a Facebook event
61:16 | that people show is coming or going or
61:20 | >> sell tickets?
61:20 | >> Is there ticket sales for that?
61:22 | >> So there there is there is typically
61:26 | what we require from the venue or from
61:28 | the people who are leasing the venue is
61:31 | four weeks prior to the event a number
61:34 | of participants. Okay.
61:36 | >> Okay. But
61:38 | given that it's an outdoor event um
61:41 | weather
61:42 | >> weather has a factor was gorgeous day um
61:46 | late registration
61:48 | had record number of people register
61:50 | late that you know they had never seen
61:53 | before um again all part of the perfect
61:56 | storm. Um so a number that they are
61:59 | required to give us four weeks in
62:00 | advance now dramatically changes two
62:04 | days one day day of so you know but like
62:09 | I say we've um
62:13 | we have good thoughts in mind and you
62:16 | know we're working through the plan to
62:18 | make sure it doesn't happen again.
62:22 | >> Yeah. I think that's all that it is a
62:24 | communication between your us and the
62:25 | chief. you have those great ideas, if
62:27 | you want to communicate them with him
62:29 | ahead of time, I think they will
62:30 | resolve, you know, lots of those issues.
62:34 | >> Teamwork.
62:37 | >> Yeah, I agree.
62:42 | >> There's no there's really no ask here or
62:45 | vote. Just to kind of anything you can
62:49 | do not to not to let that happen again
62:51 | would be
62:52 | >> Well, I mean, I certainly don't want to
62:53 | be here.
62:54 | >> Yeah. No, I Nothing against you guys.
62:57 | Nothing against you.
62:58 | >> I know. You got call down to the person.
63:02 | >> I don't I don't want to pay a $1,400
63:04 | fine either. Yeah.
63:06 | >> For a police detail.
63:07 | >> So, you know, it's
63:09 | >> which you you ended up doing because
63:12 | Yeah.
63:12 | >> Right.
63:14 | And no, it wasn't only that, but I was I
63:16 | remember looking at was when that
63:17 | happened and the attendees were unhappy
63:22 | >> unhappy no parking and that it was
63:24 | disorganized when I was reading some of
63:26 | the comments from the attendees and
63:27 | that's not good for you either.
63:29 | >> Well, Mrs. Jennings is not wrong. Some
63:30 | people profit, so they're probably not
63:33 | as concerned. They had people in their
63:35 | parked in their lawns and such and you
63:36 | know saw
63:37 | >> Yeah.
63:38 | >> saw lemons and made lemonade.
63:40 | >> Yeah.
63:42 | Maybe if you can just put in your, you
63:43 | know, no parking on the roads, cars will
63:46 | be towed. Cars will be towed because we
63:48 | did talk about that. This is, this goes
63:50 | back a couple of months, but we talked
63:52 | about
63:53 | >> if you put in no parking tow signs,
63:56 | that's
63:58 | >> they have to be temporary because people
64:00 | might not want that in their front lawn,
64:03 | >> right?
64:03 | >> Residents.
64:05 | >> We're going to follow your suggestion,
64:07 | Stephen. You deal with those complaints
64:08 | from that.
64:12 | Wonderful idea.
64:14 | >> See, Steve thought of that one.
64:15 | >> I bet you did. I bet you did.
64:18 | >> I think just notification to the chief.
64:20 | Yeah. A month out when you get your
64:22 | first example of how many people you
64:23 | expect and maybe a week before and the
64:25 | day of what you're thinking.
64:28 | >> Just keep them in the loop.
64:31 | >> Y.
64:33 | >> Okay.
64:34 | >> All right. Thanks for your time this
64:35 | evening.
64:36 | >> Thank you, Chief.
64:38 | >> Thanks for asking. Thank you, Mr.
64:40 | Jennings.
64:44 | >> Thank you.
64:53 | >> Moving on to our last
64:57 | right last action item for this evening.
64:59 | Town's use of flock automated license
65:01 | plate readers. At the board September
65:03 | 8th, 2026 meeting, Michelle Charmers
65:06 | came before you and asked to place the
65:09 | town's use of flock automated license
65:10 | plate readers on tonight's agenda for
65:12 | discussion. She provided her office with
65:15 | two citizens petitions for the upcoming
65:16 | special town meeting, one binding and
65:18 | one non-binding regarding the flock
65:20 | automated license plate as well.
65:22 | Signatures were verified by the town
65:24 | clerk's office. We received a request to
65:26 | remove the binding citizens petition um
65:28 | due to legal um questions on it and keep
65:32 | the nonbinding petition on for the
65:35 | October special time meeting. This the
65:37 | decision relates to relate to contracts
65:40 | rest with the select board
65:43 | stumbling over my word there.
65:45 | >> The microphones don't seem to be working
65:47 | very well. I don't know. I couldn't hear
65:50 | anything back there.
65:52 | >> I don't know. Is there
65:56 | >> that microphone not working well?
65:58 | >> I just couldn't really hear.
65:59 | >> I'm sorry. I speak really low, so that's
66:02 | my fault.
66:03 | >> I don't have that problem.
66:11 | >> Well, good evening. Good evening,
66:12 | everyone. Michelle Chalmer's, 46 Prindel
66:15 | Hill Road. Um, first I want to uh
66:18 | obviously thank the board uh for placing
66:21 | Charlton's use of flock uh automated
66:23 | license plate readers on tonight's
66:24 | agenda and allowing this public
66:27 | discussion and vote to take place.
66:30 | uh more than 160 residents um signed a
66:34 | petition uh requesting action on these
66:36 | cameras. Uh those residents represent
66:39 | diverse perspectives. Uh this is not uh
66:43 | simply my personal concern. Uh it is a
66:46 | community request for transparency,
66:49 | accountability, and a decision u by our
66:52 | elected officials. Uh, town council has
66:55 | determined that decisions involving
66:58 | these contracts fall within the
66:59 | authority of the select board. So, the
67:01 | responsibility for deciding whether
67:03 | Charlton continues, expands, uh, or
67:06 | discontinues this system therefore rests
67:09 | with you. We recognize that license
67:12 | plate readers may assist police in
67:15 | certain investigations. Uh this effort
67:18 | is truly not about opposing our police
67:21 | department or dismissing uh legitimate
67:24 | public safety needs. Uh it is about
67:27 | whether the benefit of this system
67:29 | justify automatically collecting and
67:33 | making searchable the vehicle location
67:36 | information of people who are
67:38 | overwhelmingly suspected of no crime.
67:42 | Charlton currently operates four
67:44 | cameras. The records also show a
67:47 | separate agreement for four additional
67:50 | cameras that according to the police
67:52 | department have not yet been received or
67:54 | installed.
67:56 | The board has an opportunity to act
67:59 | before this system doubles in size.
68:02 | I respectfully ask the board to vote
68:05 | tonight to discontinue Charlton's use of
68:08 | flock, stop the installation of the four
68:11 | additional cameras, prevent automatic
68:14 | renewal, and direct the town
68:17 | administrator and town council to pursue
68:20 | every legally and financially
68:21 | appropriate termination and refund
68:24 | option.
68:26 | I wanted just to confirm Andrew I think
68:28 | what you were saying is that the
68:30 | citizens petition when you close the
68:32 | warrant it is still on the petition
68:34 | correct okay so we want to make sure
68:36 | that the citizens petition is still on
68:38 | the warrant for town meeting um and so
68:43 | um it can stay on the warrant we'll take
68:45 | it off um once uh the board takes action
68:49 | uh consistent what with what the
68:51 | residents uh request uh the residents
68:54 | have made their concerns known and
68:56 | there's more uh citizens that will speak
68:59 | tonight and I think you've also received
69:01 | some emails. So tonight we are asking
69:03 | the board to respond with a clear and
69:06 | recorded decision. So thank you.
69:10 | >> Okay, who wants to go first?
69:12 | >> I think
69:15 | would you like to come up?
69:24 | Hello, my name is Christopher Willow, 47
69:26 | Jennings Road.
69:28 | Um, I do know that flock cameras are,
69:34 | you know, generally that is a lot of
69:35 | discussion that people have burn brain
69:38 | up over privacy concerns. Um, despite
69:42 | other major concerns people would have
69:44 | about them, I would also like to discuss
69:47 | other major concerns that these cameras
69:50 | have been involved with that are also
69:51 | impacting the East Coast and
69:53 | Massachusetts. Um, so generally these
69:58 | cameras have been leading to false
69:59 | arrest and they also
70:02 | >> Excuse me. Could you pull the microphone
70:03 | a little closer?
70:04 | >> Yes, of course.
70:04 | >> Especially when you're covering the
70:06 | office.
70:08 | >> Thank you. These cameras have led to
70:10 | false arrest and also false hot list
70:14 | assignments. These cameras also assist
70:16 | with AI recognition which can be
70:20 | determined to cars and other people that
70:23 | predict patterns, behavioral patterns,
70:26 | and other physical traits inside cars,
70:28 | bumper stickers, and anything else that
70:30 | is recognizable on in their environment.
70:34 | These car, not cars, these cameras
70:36 | specifically, some ALPRs also work with
70:40 | um ICE and some of them also work with
70:43 | other surveilling networks like
70:44 | Palunteer. Um, of course, there's other
70:47 | major details out there about this. I'm
70:49 | just
70:51 | spreading out more info that some people
70:54 | may not know. Um,
70:57 | despite this though, there's a whole
70:59 | bunch of concerns about them. And I
71:01 | would also like to say besides flock um
71:06 | taking down um the power or more likely
71:09 | shutting these things off, they have not
71:13 | been quote unquote put down um because
71:16 | there are some been some cases where
71:18 | they have been released back up to be
71:20 | put on power and that was with unknown
71:23 | authority being access to playing them
71:26 | back up on power. So what I have seen
71:29 | most people do to actually stop these
71:32 | things being um put on
71:36 | um generally to stop the privacy
71:41 | concerns and all that they will cover
71:43 | them or generally they will just cover
71:47 | the camera or microphone or anything
71:49 | similar to that is what helps most of it
71:52 | stop. And it can also, in my opinion,
71:54 | generally see who is trying to mess with
71:57 | the camera or who's not. Um,
72:01 | besides that, um, I would also like to
72:05 | discuss how vulnerably these canals
72:07 | cannibers cameras are. Um, they are very
72:10 | vulnerable to other digital attacks.
72:13 | They are vulnerable to everyone. Um,
72:17 | very vulnerable in all perspectives. Um
72:20 | just like all technology it's very
72:21 | vulnerable. Um also there are other
72:25 | major ALPRs in this environment as well
72:28 | despite being flock and those other
72:30 | major ALPRs are also being um used as
72:34 | alternative when these flock cameras are
72:36 | going down. So I know we're not talking
72:39 | about other major ALPRs but despite the
72:43 | flock cameras going down they will be
72:45 | used as the alternative to be brought
72:47 | back up.
72:49 | Okay,
72:54 | thank you for that. Is there anybody
72:55 | else that's wishing to speak before
72:57 | >> I'm just curious where is all your
72:59 | knowledge coming from? Are you involved
73:01 | in any ways with
73:02 | >> Say again?
73:03 | >> Where is your knowledge coming from?
73:05 | >> It's coming from other civil cases
73:08 | considering um outside Massachusetts and
73:11 | inside Massachusetts. By civil cases you
73:13 | mean you read about them or you
73:14 | participated in them or you uh
73:16 | >> documented those
73:18 | >> it's documented some in newsletters some
73:21 | in post it's all variety um various
73:25 | government sources um that's all I can
73:28 | say but it's generally documented
73:31 | >> thank you
73:31 | >> yes of course
73:32 | >> on social media
73:34 | [clears throat]
73:39 | Sh.
73:58 | Good evening, members of the select
73:59 | board. My name is Brian Powers. I live
74:01 | at 48 Partridge Hill Road here in
74:02 | Charlton. Uh before I begin, I want to
74:05 | say clearly that our local police
74:06 | department is fantastic and I deeply
74:08 | appreciate the work they do to keep our
74:09 | community safe. I want to acknowledge
74:12 | that most locals have no idea that we
74:13 | already have six operational flock
74:15 | cameras hidden across town, including at
74:17 | the library, Stafford Street, Route 169
74:20 | by Amazon and the Mass Pike. A year ago,
74:23 | this technology was instituted with
74:25 | almost zero public comment. But things
74:27 | have changed since then. More than
74:29 | 120,000 of these AI cameras have sprung
74:31 | up. what seems like instantly across the
74:34 | country. What started as an isolated
74:37 | safety tool has rapidly scaled into a
74:40 | massive centralized corporate
74:41 | surveillance network and now we're
74:44 | talking about expanding our local
74:45 | footprint even further.
74:48 | While we all know that privacy concerns
74:50 | and abstract theories surrounding the n
74:51 | the nationwide scale exist, I'm not here
74:54 | tonight to debate them. Instead, I'm
74:56 | here to address the immediate
74:57 | operational, financial, and legal
74:59 | liabilities this specific contract
75:01 | brings to Charlton. Practical risks that
75:04 | our closest neighbors have already
75:06 | recognized and acted upon.
75:09 | We are an extreme outlier in our own
75:11 | backyard. Our direct neighbors are
75:13 | rapidly dismantling this exact system.
75:16 | South Beach has suspended its flock
75:17 | agreement due to lack of of guardrails.
75:20 | Auburn has ordered the complete
75:21 | deactivation and physical removal of its
75:24 | flock cameras. Douglas, Grafton, and
75:26 | Boilston have all followed suit and
75:28 | canceled their contract. If our closest
75:31 | neighboring towns have determined that
75:32 | flock is a liability, Charlton must ask,
75:35 | "Why are we doubling down by expanding
75:37 | it?"
75:38 | This is a procurement risk based on the
75:40 | exact same text we signed. Towns like
75:42 | South Bridge and Auburn halted or paused
75:45 | their programs because local officials
75:47 | in legal reviews raised serious alarms
75:49 | about the standard contract terms and
75:51 | municipal oversight. Because Flock Huses
75:54 | uniform boilerplate agreements
75:56 | nationwide, the contracts that
75:58 | Southbridge and Auburn found to be
76:00 | unacceptable are likely the exact same
76:03 | contracts that Charlton has signed. We
76:05 | need our town council to review this
76:07 | immediately before we deepen our
76:09 | financial and legal exposure.
76:12 | This is a massive fiscal and legal risk
76:14 | for our taxpayers. Independent audits of
76:17 | active deployments have revealed that
76:19 | Flock AI can suffer from error rates as
76:21 | high as 71%
76:24 | in vehicle reads. When a machine
76:26 | mistakes a zero for an O, it triggers a
76:29 | high-risisk felony stop. Towns across
76:32 | the country are facing massive civil
76:33 | rights lawsuits because innocent drivers
76:35 | are being pulled over at gunpoint due to
76:37 | software typos. By expanding this
76:40 | network, we are actively expanding
76:42 | Charlton's legal liability. I strongly
76:44 | support efficient public safety, but
76:47 | tools of this magnitude require deep
76:49 | public debate, clear metrics of success,
76:52 | and strict oversight. Tonight, I ask the
76:55 | select board to protect Charlton from
76:57 | legal liability, and align with our
76:58 | neighbors. Please vote to pause the
77:01 | expansion, place a moratorum on the
77:03 | current cameras, and direct town council
77:06 | to review the contract for termination.
77:08 | Thank you.
77:09 | >> Thank you.
77:10 | >> And not to add any other companies to do
77:12 | the same thing.
77:14 | >> I'm sorry. What was that?
77:15 | >> And not to add any other companies
77:17 | afterwards to do the same thing. Like
77:19 | don't just cancel Flock and bring on
77:20 | Axon. That doesn't do anything. It
77:22 | actually gets worse. So,
77:24 | >> okay.
77:26 | >> This um is there anybody else or
77:35 | Stephan Sage Lincoln Road? I just want
77:38 | to cl I'm also the chair of the
77:39 | Charleton Public Library. I just want to
77:42 | uh board of trustees. I just like to
77:44 | clarify that the flock camera or
77:47 | whatever kind of camera it is. It's was
77:48 | mentioned at the Charleton Library is
77:51 | not on Charleton Library's property. It
77:53 | is on the public sidewalk monitoring the
77:56 | crosswalk. Charlton Public Library had
77:58 | nothing to do about having a flock
78:01 | camera put into the library. Thank you.
78:04 | Okay.
78:11 | Is there anyone else to speak on the
78:12 | matter?
78:21 | >> Uh, Zach Stiffler, 29 West Applewood
78:23 | Drive. Uh, good evening. Uh, I'm here
78:26 | tonight to ask the select board to
78:28 | terminate its contract with Flock and
78:29 | remove all existing cameras from the ch
78:31 | town of Charlton. Charlton already has
78:34 | one of the lowest crime rates in the
78:35 | state. So before we create a permanent
78:37 | infrastructure for tracking vehicles and
78:39 | recording the movements of innocent
78:40 | residents which can be accessed not only
78:42 | by local agencies but federal agencies,
78:45 | some of which are actively engaged in
78:46 | dismantling dismantling civil liberties,
78:49 | we should ask two simple questions. Is
78:51 | this level of surveillance truly
78:52 | necessary in a town with an admirably
78:54 | low crime rate? And more importantly,
78:56 | does the potential harm to innocent
78:58 | citizens outweigh its benefits? Flock
79:01 | cameras do not simply look for people
79:02 | who are suspected of crimes. They
79:04 | collect information on everyone who
79:05 | drives past them. That being the case,
79:07 | how long before an innocent person is
79:09 | charged with a crime they did not
79:10 | commit? Because a car similar to theirs
79:12 | was witnessed at a crime scene or
79:14 | because a crime occurred at a place they
79:15 | frequent. If you ask Lindsay Issacs of
79:18 | Florida, Eve Pisarelli of Rhode Island,
79:20 | or Chisana of Colorado, they will tell
79:22 | you it has already happened. These are
79:24 | just the first instances in which
79:25 | individuals have suffered despite law
79:27 | enforcement acting in good faith. And I
79:29 | believe if mass surveillance uh becomes
79:31 | the norm, it is reasonable to assume it
79:32 | will not be the last. Uh for the sake of
79:35 | time, I will not go into detail
79:36 | regarding the potential for as well as
79:38 | numerous documented cases of abuse
79:40 | resulting from members of law
79:41 | enforcement not acting in good faith.
79:43 | However, and with no disrespect to
79:45 | Charlton Police Department, I will
79:47 | mention that a cursory Google search
79:48 | will provide no shortage of examples,
79:50 | including four that have occurred in
79:52 | Massachusetts. Uh the erosion of the
79:54 | Fourth Amendment is no longer a
79:55 | hypothetical concern. It is occurring in
79:58 | real time and affecting innocent
79:59 | citizens. I urge the board to find
80:01 | itself on the right side of history by
80:02 | rejecting mass surveillance, voting to
80:04 | remove flock cameras, rejecting further
80:06 | expansion of the system, and putting
80:08 | civil liberties and public trust before
80:09 | convenience. Thank you.
80:17 | >> Is there anyone else to talk on that
80:19 | before we start talking?
80:24 | [clears throat]
80:26 | I'll start off on this. So when this
80:30 | this started percolating over the
80:33 | summer,
80:34 | we started seeing a lot of things about
80:37 | flock and all that type of thing. The
80:39 | town of Charlton put them in place two
80:41 | years ago, not one year ago.
80:44 | There was discussion. It was an open
80:46 | meeting, just like the meeting tonight.
80:48 | It was posted.
80:50 | Um
80:52 | there was discussion back and forth
80:53 | about it when all this hype started this
80:55 | summer.
80:57 | Um,
80:58 | it's actually was it was Mike and I were
81:00 | talking about it at the end of July,
81:02 | early in a in August,
81:05 | and I thought it was important. Mike was
81:07 | actually um on that on the on the side
81:10 | of being against them,
81:13 | and I was trying to explain to him what
81:15 | we learned when we voted to put them in.
81:21 | So, a refresher was needed. So, we met
81:23 | with PD. I think all of us have
81:25 | individually if not Mike and I went
81:27 | together and YouTube went individually
81:29 | went through a training course on flock
81:32 | and we learned what the cameras do what
81:34 | they can't do
81:36 | we excluded all the hype
81:38 | um
81:40 | and it's it's a confusing part and I can
81:42 | understand why the public is confused
81:46 | but the um flock is not a pl is they
81:49 | confuse it with the platforms that mail
81:51 | tickets to you
81:53 | that's A lot of people are confusing it
81:55 | with flock is
81:59 | >> okay. Okay. Very good. Very good.
82:01 | [clears throat] Let me finish. Let me
82:03 | finish.
82:04 | It's not a It's not a platform that
82:06 | mails tickets. It doesn't have that
82:09 | technology. It is It is a simple little
82:11 | box
82:13 | that records.
82:16 | >> Excuse me. Could I finish though? It is
82:18 | a simple box. We've watched the
82:20 | demonstrations from PD. The camera
82:23 | itself is what I'm talking about now.
82:24 | It's a simple box that takes pictures.
82:27 | It is a It is no It's pictures of a
82:31 | license plate. Flock does not have any
82:34 | facial recognition in a camera. It does
82:37 | not take video.
82:39 | >> It's not just the license plate. You can
82:42 | see the entire area of where the camera.
82:45 | >> It takes the back of the car and it it's
82:47 | and it stores that information.
82:49 | >> Right.
82:51 | It is a It is a
82:53 | >> but it doesn't have the ability to tell
82:55 | you who is driving that car.
82:58 | >> It does not.
82:59 | >> Your camera might not, but their system
83:00 | does.
83:01 | >> Their clock system does not. That's
83:04 | where people are wrong.
83:05 | >> To somebody else who does. What's the
83:06 | difference?
83:08 | >> So, so what we So, we went Mike and I
83:11 | went yesterday and we had a meeting with
83:15 | Back Downer PD and Flock representatives
83:17 | on Zoom. They were for them and they
83:19 | explained the system. You can you can
83:22 | laugh all you want.
83:24 | >> Um
83:26 | we're terrified.
83:27 | >> Why would you? It's it's
83:29 | >> dangerous.
83:30 | >> So you trust software people that are
83:33 | manufacturing it over
83:35 | >> who owns it?
83:36 | >> Just
83:38 | a ton of water, please.
83:40 | >> What happens is the people at home when
83:42 | we're all talking, they can't hear what
83:44 | you're saying. And I've had many
83:46 | requests saying, "Hey, could you please
83:47 | remind folks if they want to say
83:49 | something? Come up so we can all hear
83:51 | you." Otherwise, the people at home
83:52 | can't hear what you're saying. So,
83:55 | excuse me for interrupting.
83:57 | >> Um, and I would just also like to say, I
83:59 | know we have the police chief here, not
84:01 | to put him on the spot, but if he I
84:03 | think offering him the opportunity to
84:05 | say a couple of things if he chooses. If
84:07 | not, that's
84:08 | >> I I'd like to finish just what I was
84:10 | saying because I if I may. All right.
84:12 | So, we
84:14 | you can, believe it or not, you can
84:16 | watch the demonstration.
84:18 | It's if you'd like to do that. The um
84:21 | it's a law enforcement tool.
84:24 | It It reads and stores a license plate.
84:28 | That is it. It does not do facial
84:30 | recognition. It does not do video. It
84:33 | takes
84:35 | a a trained law enforcement officer
84:38 | with a case with a case. He has to have
84:41 | a case number and a reason and a license
84:43 | plate number to type in that license
84:45 | plate and then they can look in and say
84:48 | and hit a camera and say, "You know
84:50 | what? That stolen car was on Stafford
84:52 | Street an hour ago." That's the only
84:55 | way. It's not looking for a crime. It's
84:58 | it's a tool to solve a crime. It and it
85:01 | doesn't do anything more than store
85:04 | license plate. It doesn't store the
85:05 | person's name, their information, where
85:07 | they live, their address. That is a
85:09 | separate tool that law enforcement has
85:10 | had in place for decades where they they
85:14 | use the seizure system where they use
85:15 | their they go in and tune it up and then
85:19 | they go searching for it.
85:21 | It's um
85:24 | the data as far as storing data right
85:26 | now the data flock flock stores the data
85:28 | for 30 days and then they erase it.
85:32 | There was legislation around the country
85:34 | that they're trying to make that 21
85:36 | days.
85:37 | Flock is now putting in what we learned
85:39 | yesterday is that they may put in a in a
85:43 | in the ability to re erase the
85:45 | information in seven days. That would be
85:48 | up to the choice of a of a police chief
85:51 | to do that. Um state legislation is also
85:54 | kicking in. You're seeing it in the
85:56 | state house. They're talking about it.
85:58 | What was it in um in Virginia? They're
86:00 | looking at a 21day
86:02 | just to erase all the information on
86:04 | fly. It is it is no different than going
86:07 | outside and taking a photograph of the
86:09 | back of my car right now. That it's it's
86:12 | the same it's the same thing. You can
86:14 | laugh.
86:15 | >> Is that
86:15 | >> I've I've watched the demonstrations.
86:17 | >> Can we watch the demonstrations?
86:19 | >> Yes, of course. Please do. Not tonight,
86:21 | but yes. You know, that's you know,
86:24 | that's probably the best point I've
86:25 | heard from from the from the
86:28 | >> the the opponents of this whole system
86:30 | tonight is can we watch it? Absolutely.
86:32 | The problem is education.
86:34 | >> Yes. Is that just the brochure or is
86:36 | there data saying that this is legit?
86:38 | Because I mean
86:39 | >> you could look at two things if if the
86:41 | chief allows it. You could look at what
86:43 | an officer does when he has a he has to
86:46 | have a case file a case number and a
86:49 | license plate in order to log into the
86:51 | system.
86:52 | >> Is that
86:55 | I you know I can't speak I can't Yeah.
86:58 | You know point of order though. Yeah.
87:00 | Please if if
87:01 | >> what's up the chief?
87:03 | Yeah, [laughter]
87:05 | >> may maybe some you know that was a good
87:06 | point though I did for bringing it up
87:08 | because we did talk about that it's
87:10 | really an educational process more than
87:13 | >> more than
87:14 | >> I would like it to be known that the
87:16 | case number thing is a new part of the
87:18 | system within the last month uh police
87:20 | officers were not required to have a
87:22 | case number before
87:24 | >> I can't I can't
87:25 | >> everything anything anything and
87:27 | everything from the officer physically
87:29 | logging in to the website is time and
87:32 | date stamp recorded from their names,
87:34 | the officer's names, the date, the time,
87:37 | and then they have to have a reason in
87:39 | order to pull the request to get the
87:41 | information, which would be a picture.
87:43 | Um, we have sat through hours of
87:46 | training uh through this. We had uh like
87:50 | Steve said, we had flock on on webinar.
87:53 | We zoomed with them for several hours.
87:55 | Um, I poked around because I like
87:58 | yourself had many questions from from
88:01 | the whole big brother surveillance kind
88:03 | of thing. Um, right down to is it
88:06 | tracking me where I go, how I get there.
88:08 | It's none of that. I I have to tell you
88:11 | I was completely
88:13 | I don't want to say upset, but I was a
88:14 | little upset at what these cameras
88:16 | actually had the functionalities and
88:18 | capabilities of doing. I I have wildlife
88:21 | cameras out in the woods that take way
88:23 | better pictures and are way more
88:24 | detailed than these. These things just
88:27 | take six pictures every second
88:30 | continuously, non-stop.
88:33 | >> Go ahead.
88:38 | >> Yeah, we're gonna have to Sorry about
88:40 | that. just
88:41 | >> um I believe Boston just got rid of them
88:43 | because one of the concerns was that
88:46 | even the even though the contract said
88:47 | that it would not or it would only take
88:50 | it for 21 days, 30 days, whatever it may
88:52 | be, that wasn't the case. They were
88:54 | finding it going into national databases
88:56 | being logged in these data centers.
88:58 | They'll stay there forever and then if
89:00 | they ever want to find anything about
89:01 | anybody, they can just type something in
89:03 | and it has our whole entire life in
89:06 | there. Like it's so it's just
89:07 | >> So that's not that's not the case.
89:08 | >> That's not the case. We we've released
89:10 | copies of contracts. We've released
89:11 | copies of terms and conditions. We we've
89:14 | asked the same questions to the chief. I
89:17 | asked Flock themselves the same thing.
89:20 | We own the data. We own the information
89:22 | that these cameras take these pictures.
89:25 | Nobody else gets them. And after I
89:27 | believe it's 30 days now, everything
89:29 | deletes and goes away. And and that is
89:31 | per the contract. That's that's written
89:33 | in there.
89:34 | >> And then I mean
89:36 | audit.
89:38 | >> Yes.
89:40 | the chief of police and whoever he
89:42 | assumes I'm assuming probably a captain
89:44 | and again there's a report that
89:45 | >> come
89:48 | we don't trust anybody else
89:50 | >> again no disrespect to the police but
89:53 | >> should there not be an independent third
89:55 | party agency making sure that the data
89:57 | is secure
89:58 | >> there is there is that's what I asked
90:00 | same thing
90:02 | >> I don't have the name of the company
90:03 | that does it
90:04 | >> actually but it's validated
90:05 | >> if we can stay on one if you're you all
90:08 | done with. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine.
90:11 | >> Dan, you want to you want to
90:14 | put put you on the spot
90:17 | >> for anybody? This is our chief of police
90:18 | stand out.
90:19 | >> Welcome myself to the Lions, right?
90:21 | >> Yeah. Well, hey. Yeah.
90:25 | >> And Lieutenant Gribbons
90:26 | >> what flock does and doesn't do. Nobody
90:30 | wants to live in a police state. Nobody
90:32 | wants to be constantly under
90:33 | surveillance. When you have a flock
90:36 | camera, we'll use the live near the
90:38 | library. Sorry, near the library. When a
90:41 | plate goes by, it takes approximately
90:43 | six pictures of either your license
90:46 | plate or vehicle description. So, per
90:48 | second per second. So, it's not a video
90:50 | that's constantly running, but it's six
90:53 | quick snapshots. So, if somebody said,
90:56 | "Hey, I just got into a hit and run and
90:57 | a red pickup truck came by." We could
91:00 | now go and say, "We've got a hit and
91:01 | run. Did any red pickup trucks go by in
91:03 | the last five minutes?
91:06 | I could look at hours and hours of
91:08 | traditional video, but it wouldn't do
91:10 | all that work for me and just find it.
91:11 | What it's going to show me is a picture
91:13 | of your vehicles. People like, "What if
91:15 | the data gets released?" What Steve was
91:17 | implying was what gets released is a
91:20 | picture of your license plate. It
91:21 | doesn't. We have to do another step and
91:23 | go into what's called CIS and then run
91:25 | that license plate to get your personal
91:26 | information, which isn't part of the
91:28 | flock system. What the flex system is
91:30 | going to show is a picture of possible
91:32 | vehicle red pickup truck license plate
91:35 | 123 ABC. That's all we got. Now, that
91:39 | may you may not be the person that
91:42 | caused what of the hit and run, but at
91:43 | least it gives us like three vehicles
91:46 | matching that description went by. We
91:47 | can go talk to three people. Oh, geez,
91:49 | you've got front end damage. You're
91:50 | probably the person that just did the
91:52 | hit and run. That's what we would do
91:53 | with that information. Um, Anthony can
91:56 | speak much more eloquently about it. Uh,
91:59 | as far as the technology,
92:01 | >> so the technology takes six stills per
92:04 | per excuse me, six stills per second.
92:07 | Um, it's not a, like the chief said,
92:09 | it's not a continuous video feed. Um,
92:13 | sometimes if a vehicle is traveling too
92:15 | fast, it doesn't catch it. Um,
92:19 | you know, it it uh it's set up on an
92:22 | algorithm. It works off the algorithm.
92:24 | It's not recording, like you said,
92:26 | video. It doesn't record voice. Um, and
92:32 | >> go ahead.
92:32 | >> This is just in the current state,
92:34 | right? There could be updates later
92:35 | where this
92:36 | >> I don't think we're interested in
92:37 | updating beyond that. I mean, we're not
92:39 | looking to get into like shot spotter
92:41 | and all these other things.
92:42 | >> Yeah. I think there's a fear of
92:45 | technology in general, like, oh my god,
92:46 | this is what's going to happen next.
92:48 | That's not what we're looking to do. But
92:50 | yeah, once it's in there, it's hard to
92:51 | get out.
92:52 | >> As a police chief, I don't know what I
92:54 | say to the family of Molly Bish or Holly
92:57 | Perini that we couldn't have helped
92:59 | identify a vehicle, maybe found that
93:01 | child before something tragic happened.
93:04 | You sure? You know, um we're not looking
93:06 | for we're not working with ICE that
93:08 | doesn't know a person's name. It doesn't
93:10 | have the ability to do that. But what it
93:12 | does is a red pickup truck. We can say
93:14 | that many red pickup truck go by Chevy
93:17 | and it could identify three or four
93:19 | Chevy red pickup trucks went by. If we
93:22 | were to say um you know this is the
93:25 | possible license plate, you know, 123
93:27 | ABC, it would say, "Hey, it went by the
93:30 | library heading that direct towards CVS,
93:33 | but it doesn't tell us where where you
93:35 | came from, what you were thinking about
93:36 | going to." I mean, people have this idea
93:39 | that it it's plotting out their whole
93:41 | day and saying, you know, is it going to
93:43 | tell me that I was having an affair on
93:45 | my wife? It it doesn't do any of that.
93:47 | It really doesn't. It literally takes a
93:48 | snapshot, which hopefully with six
93:50 | snapshots, we can get a license plate.
93:53 | It's not perfect. Doesn't always happen.
93:55 | >> It's true.
93:56 | But it gives us a better chance of
93:58 | finding a missing person, finding an
94:01 | elderly person with dementia that the
94:03 | family, you know, a a wife wakes up in
94:06 | the morning and says, "Hey, my my
94:07 | husband has dementia. The car is missing
94:09 | and you know, stuff like that." Um, now
94:12 | a lot of times all we can tell them is
94:13 | it went down Stafford Street where it
94:15 | went, we can say a direction of travel
94:17 | that we got a flock hit on that vehicle,
94:20 | the missing person, right? where it
94:22 | went, but we got a time frame that hey,
94:24 | it went by at 8 o'clock this morning,
94:27 | but we won't know that until we go look.
94:28 | >> Are you telling me that the system will
94:30 | not when you search that vehicle on that
94:34 | give you every hit in an area?
94:37 | >> What do you mean by that? So like
94:39 | >> when you search when you search for a a
94:42 | vehicle, are you searching for based on
94:44 | characteristics of the vehicle? Are you
94:46 | searching for based on plate? plate is
94:49 | our our primary,
94:51 | >> but you could be looking for a
94:52 | description to your point. So, it does
94:53 | two things. It does license plates.
94:55 | Sometimes people get the license plate
94:57 | wrong. They're off the digit or
94:58 | something like that. So, you can put it
95:00 | in. It comes up with close matches or
95:03 | you may get an exact match or vehicle
95:05 | description. It was a It was a brown
95:06 | van. Okay. So, we can put in we're
95:08 | looking for a brown van in the last 20
95:11 | minutes. Did it go by these cameras? But
95:13 | it doesn't tell us. You could be in
95:15 | town, but you didn't go by the flock
95:17 | camera. So that doesn't mean you're not
95:19 | in town. It just simply means you didn't
95:20 | go by a caught on say
95:26 | >> when you do that search, what is your
95:28 | limit? What is your limit in terms of
95:30 | time?
95:31 | >> What is your li limit in terms of
95:33 | location that the system returns? So
95:36 | we're limited maximum maximum
95:38 | >> our maximum limitation currently is 30
95:41 | days
95:43 | >> and distance location
95:46 | >> no wide
95:48 | >> we we can search nationwide if other
95:50 | departments have given us permission to
95:51 | search the cameras
95:53 | >> so that's a home petition thing where
95:56 | you basically say are you willing to
95:58 | share your information in Texas if they
96:00 | are then we could in theory say hey has
96:03 | this vehicle been anywhere in the last
96:05 | 30
96:06 | It was it was in Texas.
96:10 | >> But unfortunately, we're trying to limit
96:13 | if we can have just one conversation.
96:14 | >> We're trying to limit it to New England
96:16 | for the most part unless it's a serious
96:17 | serious investigation.
96:21 | >> Roadways that that do come in trouble,
96:24 | right? Or areas where I'll give you an
96:26 | example. Stolen cars in in Charleton,
96:30 | they end up in Connecticut and they go
96:32 | to New Jersey, they go to they go to New
96:34 | York. Okay, drugs. Drugs that are coming
96:37 | into trouble are coming out of the
96:39 | south. Okay, they're coming out of
96:41 | Atlanta. They're coming out of Florida.
96:43 | Um,
96:45 | and we have roads adjacent to us that
96:49 | that travel into those areas. Okay. Um,
96:53 | Charlton does not have like you're not
96:57 | seeing it's it's not
97:00 | you're not seeing handhand drug
97:02 | transactions in Charlton as much. they
97:04 | they occur. Okay. But in Charlton, uh we
97:09 | are a the way the way I think to best
97:13 | describe it is we are the hub on a wheel
97:17 | of just roads. Okay? We have a lot of
97:20 | access to big roads. We have a lot of
97:21 | roads close by and our roads connect to
97:25 | other big roads. Okay? A lot of drugs
97:28 | come through. There's no that's not a
97:30 | secret. Okay? Um, and if you go to
97:33 | Dudley District Court and wonder, hey,
97:36 | why are there so many trafficking
97:38 | arrests in this area? It's because of
97:39 | the roads that are here. Okay. Um, and
97:42 | those roads, we all use them every day,
97:44 | but drug dealers and drug traffickers
97:46 | use them every day, too. Uh, and people
97:49 | doing other crimes, too.
97:50 | >> So, if there's an Amber Alert, not all
97:52 | drug, that's not always criminal, but if
97:54 | there's an Amber Alert for somebody
97:55 | missing or an elderly person, we can
97:57 | literally put that plate in and get an
97:59 | activation if they come into town. We
98:01 | may not be able to catch them or find
98:03 | them because they're continuing to
98:04 | drive, but at least we got we can notify
98:06 | the surrounding communities. Hey, this
98:08 | vehicle just went down Stafford Street.
98:10 | Don't know where it's headed, but it's
98:12 | in the area. It also puts vehicles that
98:15 | we're looking for. They're now in New
98:16 | Bedford. There's no reason for us to be
98:18 | driving around aimlessly looking for
98:20 | them anymore. We know they're not in the
98:22 | area. So, that's why sometimes it does
98:23 | help to reach out. Does the contract
98:25 | limit you to the
98:29 | is the contract limited specifically to
98:32 | the ALPRs that are currently built or
98:35 | does it does it also allow for
98:40 | oh
98:42 | does it allow for the condor models that
98:45 | allow free form? No, we we have Falcon
98:48 | models right now. Um those are the the
98:51 | ones that we have. Those are our
98:52 | contract. Um everything that I am seeing
98:56 | okay regarding Falcon there's no voice
98:59 | recognition. There's no facial
99:00 | recognition in that.
99:02 | >> Is there anything preventing the
99:04 | installation?
99:06 | >> We wouldn't sign a contract for a condor
99:08 | model. We can only sign for models.
99:14 | >> Ian, to your point earlier, we can only
99:17 | search flock.
99:19 | >> Okay. So we can't search an ax on
99:22 | camera. We can't search
99:23 | >> not not via this not via this system.
99:25 | Not via the system.
99:26 | >> We don't we don't have a contract with
99:28 | them to search. So we don't have that
99:30 | data available to us.
99:33 | >> Correct.
99:33 | >> I have a question on the suggestions
99:35 | point about scope of the searches. Um,
99:39 | would that type of search, say red
99:41 | pickup truck and in Charleton, including
99:44 | outside of Charlton, could that
99:46 | constitute a drag net search that was
99:49 | deemed unconstitutional? The Fourth
99:51 | Amendment earlier this year, 63 in a
99:54 | Supreme Court case.
99:57 | >> I think you'd have to give me more. Uh,
100:00 | >> Anony's got a law degree, by the way,
100:05 | >> but no, but I I see your concern. Okay.
100:09 | >> Um
100:11 | >> but I would say this to you. Okay. Who
100:13 | in the room doesn't have a smartphone?
100:16 | >> Okay.
100:18 | >> And that's what scares me more than
100:20 | anything else.
100:22 | >> No, I understand that.
100:23 | >> Carpenter 2018 Supreme Court case
100:26 | outlawed searches by location because
100:29 | you're not necessarily giving up your
100:30 | right to privacy um based on your
100:33 | location because a smartphone is a
100:35 | integral part of your life. there's a
100:37 | difference for vehicle.
100:38 | >> I'm not talking about that. I agree with
100:40 | you on that. It's a search warrant. It's
100:41 | a It's
100:43 | >> But my concern is the data that's in my
100:46 | phone. I can't control who it's being
100:48 | shared to. Okay. Um
100:56 | >> No, you can't.
100:58 | >> I turn off everything in my phone. Okay.
101:01 | And I'll give you an example. Today we
101:04 | had a fingerprint installed. fingerprint
101:06 | machine installed in the station and I
101:09 | got an ad for card stock. Okay, I didn't
101:13 | Google anything. I didn't look anything
101:14 | up and there's something beyond what I
101:17 | can control that's that's doing that.
101:20 | Okay,
101:21 | >> but I think that's that's part of the
101:22 | point.
101:23 | >> It's actually part of these
101:26 | cameras. I think we need
101:28 | >> for one second. Okay. So, I I have a I
101:34 | don't know AOL email address. Okay.
101:37 | >> So, I have a Gmail.
101:40 | >> Gmail doesn't give me an insurance
101:42 | policy that my data is not
101:45 | >> gives us an insurance policy.
101:46 | >> They give us an insurance
101:49 | to the bone there.
101:50 | >> Um I don't know where my data is being
101:53 | shared or what have you. Um and I get
101:57 | concerned about that. Whereas talk at
101:59 | least gives me some assurance and I I do
102:01 | see your concern.
102:03 | >> I understand we talked for hours.
102:05 | >> Yes.
102:05 | >> And I'm willing to talk to anybody in
102:07 | the room and and
102:08 | >> I just think we need to understand that
102:11 | just like you and I had this
102:12 | conversation that this is larger than
102:14 | Charlton. We can certainly talk about
102:17 | the individual circumstances of a
102:19 | dementia patient or a lost child. We
102:22 | agree with all of that. But if that can
102:24 | be used have that how do I access it? I
102:27 | can't. Somebody goes missing. I can't
102:29 | blow her six months.
102:31 | >> We didn't have any of this and you were
102:33 | fine.
102:34 | >> No, no, we wouldn't be fine.
102:35 | >> We still solve crime and police still
102:38 | did their job. So, I think we have to be
102:41 | understanding that this the capacity of
102:44 | these cameras and you and I sat down and
102:46 | you showed me, do you remember how many
102:48 | outside agencies, police offic uh police
102:52 | departments and sheriff offices that
102:54 | you've told me how many access to our
102:57 | cameras.
102:58 | >> 119 of 120,000.
103:00 | >> Yes. And then you had like 50 more that
103:03 | you had to give permission.
103:04 | >> 15, right?
103:05 | >> 15.
103:06 | >> So you have 1,200 or almost 1,200
103:09 | outside agencies, not even to do with
103:12 | Charleton that have access to our
103:14 | cameras. And I think we need to
103:16 | understand what can they see, when can
103:19 | they see it, where what are they doing
103:20 | with
103:22 | a horrible picture. [laughter] It's not
103:25 | even
103:25 | >> the picture that the camera takes. It's
103:27 | not a
103:28 | >> We're getting where I think the two
103:31 | people on the side of the road walking
103:33 | in old home day. I could see everything.
103:35 | I could see the dog. I could see
103:37 | everything in the picture. So, I don't
103:38 | >> How about the ring cameras? Do you got
103:40 | you have a ring cameras on your house?
103:42 | >> No,
103:44 | we're getting a little We're getting a
103:45 | little What? I'm
103:46 | >> I guess what I'm hoping is that we can
103:48 | before you vote. There's a lot of
103:51 | information that was not included. I
103:52 | sent you an email a couple days ago.
103:54 | Still have not got that information
103:56 | regarding my public records request. Um,
103:59 | what outside agencies can search or
104:01 | request Charlton's data? Does Charlton
104:04 | approve each outside search individually
104:06 | or do some agencies have continuing
104:08 | access? Can Charlton audit every outside
104:11 | search including who conducted it and
104:14 | why? I know you get a case and they say,
104:16 | "We need to see this. Why?" Okay. And
104:18 | then I think the town needs to
104:20 | understand you showed me one camera on
104:24 | Stafford Street in a 30-day period
104:27 | >> licensed or took pictures of a half a
104:30 | million different well not different
104:34 | half a million pictures. Yes.
104:37 | >> Half a million pictures of us.
104:40 | >> Right. And only of your car.
104:43 | No. Do you?
104:44 | >> Huh?
104:44 | >> Of your license plate.
104:46 | of the entire car.
104:48 | >> You can see the entire back of the car,
104:51 | not the license plate. If I'm if I am
104:55 | driving, if the if the picture is taken
104:58 | once every six seconds or six every 1
105:01 | seconds, you are going to get a picture
105:03 | of me
105:04 | >> in that if I go the same speed or a
105:07 | different speed. So, you can't just be
105:09 | careful with making those blanket
105:11 | statements because
105:13 | >> I know it doesn't intend pictures of
105:16 | people, but it does. And again, this is
105:19 | all we're asking for is transparency to
105:21 | be able to have this.
105:23 | >> You're you're actually you're actually
105:24 | not asking for transparency. We're
105:26 | trying to give you that. You're asking
105:27 | for You're asking to get rid of them is
105:29 | what you're asking.
105:30 | >> Well, I'm asking to get rid of them
105:31 | because we don't have the transparency.
105:33 | We don't
105:34 | >> If we can just if we can just hold that
105:36 | thought right there. Now there was some
105:39 | there was when we brought up the idea of
105:41 | training or or a seminar we could show
105:43 | people that I I was looking at a lot of
105:46 | people nodding their heads an
105:47 | educational format where people could do
105:49 | that. We saw it and we were convinced
105:52 | that it's not a threat. It's not I'm I
105:54 | don't like big government. I don't like
105:58 | >> big government looking down on me. I big
106:01 | brother all of that stuff. I don't like
106:03 | that. And and I'm sure and the chief
106:05 | that is not what this is. That is not
106:07 | what this is.
106:09 | >> I think I'm sorry, Steve.
106:10 | >> No.
106:10 | >> I think when these came out two years
106:12 | ago and there's been zero incidences
106:15 | here in Charlton of anybody abusing
106:17 | anything.
106:17 | >> That's not true.
106:19 | >> Yes, it is.
106:20 | >> Yes, it is.
106:20 | >> Yes, it is.
106:24 | >> Correct.
106:26 | >> Correct. Nobody Nobody has abused the
106:28 | cameras themselves.
106:29 | >> What do you mean abused the cameras?
106:31 | using them to find the chief's example
106:33 | of somebody cheating on somebody's wife
106:35 | or husband or whatever it is. There
106:36 | hasn't been any of that.
106:38 | >> Me personally, Charleston had to pay a
106:42 | me personally. What I experienced not
106:45 | you know what on that what we haven't
106:46 | talked about yet of the policy that's
106:48 | that's in place that the chief put in
106:50 | two years ago. There were five five
106:53 | reasons you can log into the system and
106:55 | five and more than five that you can't.
106:58 | And the ones that you can't are
107:00 | immigration purposes. There's a lot on
107:01 | there that you'd actually like to read.
107:04 | >> I have it, but it does it's not accurate
107:06 | like
107:07 | >> it's not accurate because you don't
107:09 | understand it or it's not accurate dates
107:10 | of when the policy who signed the policy
107:13 | and then what are the you know uh
107:15 | punishments if you will? What's the
107:17 | accountability in the policy?
107:19 | >> If if it's misused
107:21 | if it's misused, you're saying what's
107:23 | the accountability? No, that would be
107:26 | that would be a disciplinary action from
107:27 | the chief, but for sure.
107:29 | >> I know, but it's just not in the policy
107:31 | >> because it hasn't happened. Well, that
107:32 | hasn't Well, maybe we that I'm I don't I
107:35 | can't speak for him on that, but
107:37 | >> I also think we haven't heard enough of
107:38 | the good things that that the flot
107:40 | cameras have done for us.
107:42 | >> Like I don't know how many people have
107:44 | heard what happened at Bayath just last
107:46 | week.
107:49 | >> Have you? My son was in that class.
107:52 | >> Yes, I
107:52 | >> at that evening. And
107:54 | >> there was a shooter in route to cameras
107:56 | probably I would probably have no sound
107:58 | didn't help that
108:00 | >> that's how they caught the suspect
108:02 | >> and you certainly at that period
108:06 | >> Brown University and MIT that's how they
108:08 | caught it Marvin Antoine that just
108:10 | passed away last weekend at the football
108:12 | game down in in in Rhode Island or UMass
108:15 | Dartmouth he was stabbed to death flock
108:18 | helped catch that killer
108:20 | >> well I was a lot of good
108:24 | I am telling you I'm the mother. I'm I'm
108:26 | not speaking as the select board member.
108:29 | My son was in that class on No, you
108:32 | don't. Do you did you have a son in that
108:34 | class? No, you didn't. And because of
108:36 | those fl No, you don't. And in because
108:39 | of the flaw camera,
108:41 | >> call it whatever you want. I have a son
108:44 | tonight and that's it on that topic
108:47 | because Yes.
108:49 | >> Because because of that. So from because
108:52 | he never made it to the school
108:53 | apprehended him and
108:54 | >> the FBI was involved with the social
108:56 | media.
108:57 | >> Basha, please we can just try to try to
108:59 | get this back.
109:01 | >> Try to get this back on to some
109:02 | measurable outcome.
109:04 | >> FBI picked up something about a
109:06 | potential shooting.
109:08 | They reached out to our police
109:10 | department. They started to set up their
109:13 | standout points. That's how they tracked
109:15 | this guy. They they knew who made the
109:18 | post. They know where he was going
109:20 | because he was a student
109:24 | and that's how they caught him.
109:25 | >> He never made it to the school and you
109:27 | never heard about it because it wasn't
109:29 | technically an incident
109:30 | >> whether we had flock or not. They still
109:31 | would have done that to do with
109:36 | that because they he was apprehended.
109:38 | >> It is a it is it is a it's a tool in
109:40 | their tool box. It's not there.
109:42 | >> It's not the you don't understand
109:44 | >> about who else has access.
109:46 | >> All right. So is there you you sat
109:49 | through the presentation. You know who
109:51 | else has access.
109:52 | >> Is there a way
109:53 | >> but but on that note how many so moving
109:55 | forward and the chief I don't want to
109:57 | throw this on you but would you you and
110:00 | would you guys be willing to do some
110:02 | type of a demonstration somewhere?
110:04 | >> Yeah we were talking in the hall when
110:05 | you mentioned it. Um you
110:07 | >> I could he asked me the chief asked
110:10 | could you do a demonstration right here
110:12 | and
110:12 | >> not this second camera. You know
110:15 | >> the problem I have is that I need a
110:16 | secure IP address in order to use the
110:19 | camera. And we don't have a secure IP
110:22 | address here. Otherwise, I could I could
110:25 | do something for you. But we could
110:27 | definitely set something up if people
110:28 | would be interested.
110:29 | >> Oh,
110:29 | >> every time every time they log in,
110:31 | there's a multiffactor authentification
110:33 | or authentication that has to go through
110:35 | if he uses a different laptop or cell
110:37 | phone or however they get in. There's
110:38 | multiple layers of security for them to
110:40 | even get in.
110:41 | >> Yes, definitely.
110:41 | >> No, the the cell phone gives me the
110:43 | second authentication.
110:45 | 10 or 12 at a time to the chief in South
110:48 | Bridge.
110:49 | >> I'm sorry.
110:49 | >> Have you spoken to the chief in South
110:51 | Brbridge?
110:52 | >> Yes, I've had conversations with him.
110:54 | >> Do you know why he discontinued
110:56 | the block?
110:57 | >> Well, at some point the um the juice
110:59 | isn't worth the squeeze if he was going
111:01 | to get attacked and everything, but
111:04 | >> he got attacked as far as the usage of
111:07 | it saying, "Hey, this is we don't want
111:08 | it."
111:10 | >> But but
111:12 | at some point in time, you know, public
111:14 | opinion
111:15 | But he has expressed that they've
111:18 | utilized ours as far as calling us and
111:20 | saying, "Hey, we're looking for a
111:21 | vehicle that just took off. We just
111:23 | apprehended somebody that was involved
111:25 | in a shooting the other night."
111:28 | >> Old home day. There was a vehicle that
111:29 | drove by a stolen place from Georgia.
111:32 | Every day there's something that can be
111:34 | caught on these
111:36 | >> and and there's more good than bad.
111:38 | crime and all the details.
111:42 | >> At what capacity is the town going to be
111:44 | held if there's a lawsuit
111:46 | >> from why why would there be a lawsuit?
111:48 | >> Well, like there's been almost a hundred
111:50 | cases across the country, okay, of
111:54 | situations where the camera's been used
111:56 | in an incapacity where it was wrongfully
111:59 | charging the person.
112:01 | >> I don't know. I'm just speaking I I
112:04 | don't know of any in Massachusetts where
112:06 | that's happened. Okay. But if we got a a
112:10 | hit on a motor vehicle uh off a license
112:12 | plate, the officer is going to run that
112:14 | license plate, confirm it. He's going to
112:16 | visually confir he or she is going to
112:18 | visually confirm it before they make a
112:20 | stop. Okay.
112:21 | >> Obviously, but like in the in the grand
112:23 | scheme of like the big picture, right?
112:26 | How is there 100 incidences already?
112:29 | Right.
112:29 | >> We don't I don't know that.
112:31 | >> Why haven't you looked that up? You
112:32 | trust what they tell you from? Because
112:34 | because because we're we're because
112:35 | we're in the Troutton town hall
112:37 | discussing the town of Charlton.
112:40 | >> That's something we can verify locally.
112:42 | We verify
112:43 | >> any local news reports or any any of
112:46 | course we do. Of course we do. Do you do
112:49 | you do you watch on the same do you
112:50 | watch the ones where there's a positive
112:52 | that that have been coming out?
112:54 | >> Now there seems to be a shift in the
112:56 | media now. You're seeing news news
112:58 | channels even locally pick up flock and
113:00 | some of the good things about it.
113:01 | finally
113:03 | and they're talking about cases being
113:05 | solved. The hype is going on. It's I'm
113:08 | I'm really convinced it's an educational
113:10 | idea.
113:11 | >> I I was on the same side.
113:13 | >> Well, we're wrong. Like I said, I am
113:14 | limited in space, so I can't put 40
113:16 | people and and there's no way you can
113:21 | beative actions from Flock. I don't
113:24 | understand you in the past two weeks,
113:25 | you haven't looked it up. I mean, you
113:26 | might not believe everything, but
113:27 | there's all suicide.
113:28 | >> I'm on social media all the time. I see
113:30 | the negative hype, but but I but I've
113:33 | also been going through the training and
113:35 | there were people laughing when I said
113:36 | it doesn't do voice recognition. It the
113:39 | cameras we have it does not. There were
113:41 | people laughing when I said that. There
113:43 | were still people laughing when I
113:48 | movements. You have the license plate.
113:50 | >> It is a snapshot of a it's not
113:54 | >> but it doesn't but it doesn't look it
113:56 | doesn't private companies that
113:59 | information. The police can pinch your
114:01 | phone and find you so much easier.
114:04 | >> Same with the ring. Same with the social
114:06 | media. You people.
114:07 | >> All right. We haven't given this.
114:09 | >> If we get some more to hear, um Karen
114:11 | would like to speak and we haven't let
114:13 | her
114:13 | >> I've actually said haven't said a word
114:15 | yet.
114:16 | >> So, I think what this board needs to
114:18 | think about is
114:21 | this is this is we have a citizens
114:23 | petition. If this passes or doesn't
114:26 | pass, how are we going to react to that?
114:28 | because as far as I'm concerned and
114:31 | again they're great talking points
114:32 | tonight and I encourage everyone to you
114:34 | know become more informed so we can all
114:37 | have make a again an educated informed
114:39 | decision that night but at the end of
114:42 | the day this I can speak for myself and
114:45 | I want to know how the town's people
114:47 | feel because you are the ones that again
114:50 | I I referenced that org chart early on
114:53 | you're our boss bosses as far as I'm
114:55 | concerned and what you say at town
114:57 | meeting speaks loudly at least to me.
114:59 | But you're going to know both sides of
115:01 | it. The you decision regardless of what
115:05 | it is and our decision comes with
115:07 | consequences. Just get informed. But I
115:10 | and again I think we need to decide you
115:12 | know if I know it's a non-binding
115:14 | question. Non-binding question means if
115:15 | even if it passes that we're not
115:17 | obligated to take any action because
115:20 | it's non-binding.
115:22 | But I think we are obligated
115:25 | to do so because it's in the spirit of
115:27 | the question. We should in my opinion
115:30 | abide by what the town's people want.
115:33 | >> I and I think I I not saying I disagree
115:37 | with you, but but I think the problem a
115:40 | lot of the problem is people what what
115:42 | they're what they what they're
115:44 | understanding isn't the factual
115:46 | >> understood. Education is important and I
115:49 | think there's a way we can do it. I
115:51 | don't know how It's just what is that we
115:54 | have to decide on?
115:55 | >> I think
115:57 | >> so maybe does does this board want to
116:00 | move forward with any kind of motion
116:03 | regarding the outcome if this motion if
116:06 | the cition motion passes
116:10 | >> fill in the blank do we want to then
116:12 | pause or you want to wait
116:14 | >> I don't think he wants by the citizens
116:16 | decision I think he wants to
116:19 | make choice himself
116:23 | I was just trying to kind of contain it
116:24 | a little bit. And again, this is I think
116:26 | that we all I think the consensus is in
116:28 | this room that our Charlton Police
116:30 | Department really does a great job and
116:32 | we have confidence it's it's all the
116:34 | other unknowns out there. I I I get it.
116:36 | Good points made on both sides. But
116:39 | >> that's any I already said it and then
116:41 | >> I I I'm pretty firm on the Mike was a
116:44 | perfect example. Mike was like a lot of
116:46 | people in this room right now a month
116:49 | ago and he sat through the training and
116:51 | and him and I we argued about it and
116:54 | then I said fine let's go get some
116:55 | training and then it once you see what's
116:58 | available for and the the usefulness of
117:00 | the tool
117:02 | >> I I asked I'm sorry I asked multiple
117:04 | questions to everybody that was there
117:07 | involved and and I did ask about uh the
117:09 | threeletter agencies and if they had
117:11 | access and they don't. Um there was a
117:14 | lot of questions that I had I'm sorry.
117:15 | Which three?
117:17 | >> The threeletter agencies. N any of them.
117:20 | >> FBI,
117:20 | >> FBI, CIA, ICE, NH, NHS,
117:23 | >> any of them.
117:26 | >> Has I showed you four searches
117:30 | >> in the month?
117:31 | >> In the month. Okay. All have a reason.
117:33 | all have something associated with
117:34 | >> time, date, stamped receipts,
117:36 | >> but they don't have
117:37 | >> Would you agree that that was the only
117:39 | that and the US Postal Service and I
117:40 | explained to you those were the only
117:43 | ones that had a search in there
117:46 | >> for the last 30 days,
117:49 | >> right?
117:50 | >> You don't have that information. You
117:51 | couldn't give me the information before
117:53 | that. I asked for it, but you couldn't
117:54 | give it to me because I lose it for
117:56 | >> the last 30 days. Well, you have
117:59 | >> we should individual conversations here,
118:01 | but I don't have off the top of my head.
118:07 | >> All right, this
118:10 | >> we I think we could sit here and go have
118:13 | this back and forth go all night. I
118:15 | think the um
118:17 | what's before the board. It's obviously
118:20 | the it's going to be on the the article
118:23 | is going to be on town meeting,
118:25 | >> right?
118:27 | non-binding article and what are the
118:29 | wishes of this board. I really encourage
118:32 | people to take
118:35 | to however we do it some type of
118:37 | educational
118:39 | to attend it with an open mind and and
118:43 | it can't be if if it if it's an hourong
118:46 | presentation and there's bickering going
118:48 | back and forth that's going to be a
118:50 | three-hour long presentation. We don't
118:51 | want that. just come in and listen and
118:54 | and for an hour if you do it 15 people
118:57 | at a time. Is there any way you can do
119:00 | it in a room this size?
119:02 | >> Sure, I could. I just have to do some
119:04 | work. Yes.
119:05 | >> In in order to get the IT the IT part of
119:08 | it and just put something together
119:09 | that's
119:10 | >> what works better what works better for
119:12 | people. Is it evening or is it daytime?
119:14 | Is it
119:14 | >> you can probably size this and see
119:16 | >> there's only 15 at a time multiple sess.
119:19 | I don't know if we find a bigger venue,
119:20 | but it's the
119:21 | >> Dexter Hall IP address the IP a secure
119:23 | IP address is my biggest hangup.
119:25 | >> I think a room this size is probably I
119:27 | think that's just
119:33 | here.
119:33 | >> So,
119:35 | so I just I don't want to do the groups.
119:38 | >> I just have to find a place that can
119:40 | handle. So,
119:41 | >> you know, you know, we could we could do
119:42 | it here and this room is already all
119:44 | televised. People would be able to watch
119:46 | it from home. We got to make sure the
119:47 | >> the IP address.
119:48 | >> Yes. Why don't we get back on that?
119:50 | >> I asked if we could use this room
119:52 | because I just thought it would be
119:53 | easier.
119:53 | >> No, it it does make Yeah, it does make
119:55 | sense. And you you could actually people
119:56 | could almost zoom in with a question if
119:58 | they're at home with a question as well.
119:59 | >> And to be honest with you, I could zoom
120:01 | in people from that would be more
120:03 | beneficial.
120:03 | >> That would be excellent.
120:04 | >> Mr. Chair,
120:06 | is it is there a possibility that we
120:09 | could or you could sorry you the board
120:14 | could at least vote tonight to not
120:19 | install the other four cameras um before
120:23 | the town makes a decision. I don't know
120:25 | if that's I I
120:27 | >> I would take a I would I would take a
120:29 | motion right now that
120:30 | >> I'd prefer myself not to make any
120:34 | changes until
120:36 | >> training education is completed and if
120:38 | there's further questions or further I
120:42 | definitely don't want these around then
120:43 | we can take it from there but I don't
120:45 | where these things are bought and paid
120:47 | for and they're up and they're working
120:48 | and the contract is already going even
120:50 | if we took the
120:51 | >> cameras down still paying the contract
120:54 | In fact, it could not.
120:57 | >> We don't even have them.
120:58 | >> We're not going to get any.
121:00 | >> But is it Can you put that in a formal
121:02 | motion?
121:03 | >> Put that in as a motion.
121:05 | >> I'm uh Yeah, I make the motion to not
121:08 | make any changes until we have uh either
121:10 | an online Zoom or an education class uh
121:13 | given by the police department and
121:15 | potentially flock if they can get
121:16 | involved
121:17 | >> and see how many participation
121:18 | >> there was that last there was a
121:20 | gentleman from Flock that was going to
121:21 | be in the area.
121:23 | until after the vote on it.
121:26 | >> We have a motion. Do we have a second on
121:28 | that not to take a second?
121:30 | >> Just
121:31 | >> for for
121:32 | >> So we have a motion and a second not to
121:34 | take any action tonight.
121:36 | >> Um do we have a vote?
121:38 | >> I talked conversation discussion usually
121:40 | happens after the motion and the second
121:42 | Mr. Chairman.
121:44 | >> Okay. So, regarding this motion, um, why
121:48 | are we taking any action on anything
121:50 | until when we I I personally would like
121:52 | to see everything paused until after
121:54 | town meeting. I'm not sure why we have
121:56 | to double down on saying we're not going
121:58 | to do something.
122:01 | >> I I I'm just not understanding the need.
122:03 | >> We're just not The motion was not to
122:04 | take any action tonight.
122:05 | >> Correct.
122:06 | >> That's that's very clear.
122:08 | >> Well, I think we should commit to
122:09 | something.
122:12 | Well, I I think we should commit to
122:14 | something if I I personally want to
122:16 | know.
122:16 | >> No, no, no, no. We're actually following
122:18 | your request. You you wanted us to take
122:22 | a vote tonight,
122:23 | >> okay,
122:24 | >> to either do one of the three things,
122:26 | >> right?
122:27 | >> And we're taking a vote on that on your
122:29 | request.
122:30 | >> That's about as fair as you can get
122:32 | action. So, we have a motion and a
122:34 | second
122:34 | >> to to not to not move forward with
122:36 | anything
122:37 | >> not to install until
122:39 | >> until after the education and the people
122:41 | that showed up here tonight.
122:42 | >> Oh, so we're not going to I say it
122:43 | wasn't clear. It wasn't
122:45 | >> we're not going to install anything.
122:47 | >> We don't have anything to install.
122:49 | >> We don't have the cameras yet.
122:50 | >> I'm misunderstanding.
122:51 | >> If they come tomorrow, you could install
122:53 | them based on your motion right here.
122:55 | >> Chief, have they been
122:56 | >> I'm not I I believe the last time we
122:58 | audited cameras, it took till like
122:59 | November. So, I'm not anticipating them
123:01 | being in and obviously in a spirit of
123:03 | fairness, I would hold off until you
123:06 | have your moment. And
123:08 | >> so, I mean,
123:08 | >> so amend my motion to after the class in
123:11 | the educational course to not install
123:13 | the new cameras until this has been
123:16 | resolved.
123:16 | >> Yes.
123:17 | >> Until after town meeting.
123:19 | >> After town meeting.
123:20 | >> That would
123:21 | >> Yeah, after town meeting. I go
123:23 | >> Well, no. Is that then we know what the
123:26 | >> actually not to
123:29 | >> your first motion was
123:31 | >> I was trying to appease.
123:33 | >> Yeah.
123:34 | >> Well, no, but that's
123:35 | >> you can you can pull it back. We can you
123:38 | can resend it and then resend it and
123:40 | then make the right decision.
123:41 | >> I I would I would be a little less
123:44 | definitive. I I would
123:47 | >> just hold the topic in a
123:50 | >> just hold it into a bayance for right
123:51 | now.
123:53 | >> Do it. table it.
123:55 | >> Make a motion to table the subject.
123:58 | >> Second.
124:00 | >> All in favor?
124:01 | >> I
124:01 | >> I
124:01 | >> I
124:04 | tableling
124:04 | >> tableabling the subject.
124:05 | >> I trust that the chief won't install it
124:07 | before the meeting.
124:12 | >> Can I just ask for planning purposes? Um
124:16 | does an evening meeting or daytime
124:18 | meeting what works better for the
124:19 | majority of people?
124:22 | one in the day and one at night.
124:24 | >> I can work on that.
124:26 | >> Some people that can get through it.
124:28 | >> I totally understand that. That's why
124:30 | I'm asking the question.
124:30 | >> Can the meeting be taped and played over
124:34 | and over again the same way
124:36 | like board meetings can be played over
124:38 | and over again?
124:39 | >> The only thing is people wouldn't have
124:41 | the opportunity to ask questions if I
124:42 | was able to block it if
124:44 | >> but there'll be enough other questions
124:46 | recorded.
124:46 | >> That's fair. Can they bring data of how
124:49 | this actually is helped like proving it
124:51 | rather than just sales pitches?
124:53 | >> I can
124:54 | actually even going on the internet you
124:57 | can't find it anywhere just
125:00 | chief of police over here. No offense
125:02 | but you know
125:05 | >> okay if we can if we can um take those
125:08 | conversations off the we could still be
125:12 | appreciate they're good questions and
125:14 | we'll come out with some dates. Who do
125:16 | we
125:17 | um disseminate the information to?
125:19 | Michelle, I'm assuming you know all
125:21 | these you have access to
125:25 | >> what would be the best way to do
125:28 | >> state.
125:31 | >> What we're going to do, we're probably
125:33 | going to have to limit it to the amount
125:34 | of people we can fit in this room.
125:36 | >> Why can't we use a larger space?
125:39 | >> Why can't we use school or any other
125:41 | other places?
125:42 | >> The IP address is what he was concerned
125:44 | with. How about we see the participation
125:48 | IP address for more? We do another one.
125:50 | >> The odds of doing the IP address here on
125:53 | the town network
125:55 | >> is one thing, but then we also have the
125:56 | recording capabilities here in Zoom and
125:58 | all that right in this room. The schools
126:00 | don't have that. You can't you can't do
126:02 | a presentation at town meetings.
126:03 | >> So like the library [snorts]
126:04 | meeting room, I don't know if I have a
126:06 | cell connection there. We definitely
126:08 | don't have recording capability there.
126:09 | Right.
126:10 | >> Upstairs. I don't think so.
126:19 | What' you say,
126:20 | >> Drew?
126:25 | >> Oh, in the deck server.
126:28 | >> If the IP address, why don't you look
126:30 | into that a little bit? Yeah.
126:33 | >> Computer.
126:35 | >> I really think education is the is the
126:37 | key. And there's still going to be some
126:38 | people that are going to believe what
126:40 | they've been believing for the last 90
126:43 | days and it's not due to that.
126:47 | But it but there are people that it will
126:49 | change.
126:53 | So, is there
127:00 | >> one we're going to
127:06 | >> Okay, gentlemen, you're
127:07 | >> done. Am I out of the lines yet?
127:10 | >> Thank you, Chief.
127:11 | >> Thank you.
127:12 | >> Um, chief chief police chief of police
127:14 | contract coming up. [laughter]
127:19 | >> I'll be grayer.
127:23 | What what do we have left?
127:25 | >> We have the town administrators report.
127:27 | >> All right. Beautiful updates.
127:32 | First of all, financial reporting. For
127:34 | the second year in a row, the town of
127:36 | Charlton has been awarded the government
127:38 | government finance officers association
127:40 | certificate of achievement for
127:42 | excellence in financial reporting.
127:44 | Ashley,
127:46 | >> great work. the queen.
127:49 | >> Make sure she got her flowers tonight.
127:52 | >> Excellent.
127:53 | >> All right. Uh, fire substation. We're
127:56 | nearing the completion of this fire
127:57 | substation project on Oxford Road.
127:59 | There's still a considerable amount of
128:00 | work to be done within the building in a
128:02 | very short time frame. And by very
128:04 | short, I mean like a week and a half.
128:06 | Uh, currently substantial completion is
128:08 | targeted for October 2nd. This week,
128:10 | just about all trades are wrapping up
128:12 | their work in anticipation of final
128:14 | balancing and testing of systems to be
128:16 | completed next week. Obviously, dealing
128:18 | with all those little snafoos that, you
128:20 | know, all these projects have. Uh, but
128:24 | once we reach the final completion,
128:25 | we'll start moving furniture and
128:27 | equipment into the building.
128:29 | >> That's awesome.
128:30 | >> And then, uh, master plan. So, the
128:32 | master planning committee has been
128:33 | meeting regularly to develop an um
128:36 | community outreach strategy in support
128:37 | of the master plan. On October 18th, the
128:40 | committee will be hosting a community
128:41 | meeting uh to help inform the
128:43 | development of the master plan. It'll be
128:45 | at Dexter Hall over at the library. Uh
128:48 | probably I believe it's going to be for
128:50 | six o'clock at night. So, we'll have
128:51 | additional information on the town
128:53 | website in advance of that meeting, but
128:55 | more to come. That's what I got.
128:57 | >> That's it.
128:58 | >> Thank you.
129:01 | Select board requests for future agenda
129:03 | items.
129:05 | >> Please say no.
129:10 | >> Non-binding, but please say no.
129:12 | >> Not binding.
129:15 | >> Okay.
129:16 | >> Okay. And then next meeting
129:17 | announcement,
129:19 | Dudley Charlton special election,
129:21 | September 29th, 2026,
129:23 | >> 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. 8:00 p.m. Note
129:26 | that different times, 12 to 8 at
129:28 | Heritage School. Next regular meeting of
129:30 | the select board will be October 13th,
129:32 | 2026,
129:34 | 6:30 p.m. right here. And the special
129:37 | town meeting is October 19th at 7 p.m.
129:40 | Charlton Middle School. And I would
129:42 | accept a motion to adjurnn.
129:44 | >> Motion to adjurnn.
129:45 | >> Second.
129:46 | >> All in favor?
129:47 | >> I.
129:47 | >> I.