2026-10-07 - Planning Board Meeting

Summary

Built from ASR auto-captions (no speaker labels; names and figures may be garbled). The Charlton Planning Board opened with a special permit for a reduced-frontage lot for Robert Hatch on Oxbow Road (old ANR lot, roughly 5 acres of agricultural land). Dillon Maxfield said the plan was missing details such as the house location and that the applicant's engineer was out on medical leave; the board discussed continuing but instead approved the reduced-frontage special permit with the conditions as written (plan corrections handled administratively with peer review, funded from escrow, returning to the board if they cannot be resolved), and closed the hearing.

The board then took up the continued public hearing on the Amazon flex (last-mile delivery) modification at the Route 20 facility. Before the applicant spoke, a board member read a memo into the record asserting that the facility has exceeded the traffic volume limits in its original 2021 approval, shows a material increase in crashes, has not delivered required traffic monitoring reports (condition 16) or a concept-of-operations report for the Route 20 adaptive traffic control system (ATCS), and proposes no mitigation; the memo argued the board cannot approve a modification while the applicant is violating the existing approval and asked that a notice of violation be requested. The board asked Dylan to send the concerns to the zoning enforcement officer (only the ZEO can issue a notice of violation), and the commissioner was copied. The applicant team (Matt (Amazon Architect) and traffic engineer Zach (Van Austin Traffic)) said the on-site general manager was unaware of any violations, welcomed the town traffic peer reviewer Bob (MDM Traffic)'s mitigation recommendations (traffic coordinator, employee surveys, striping and lane-stacking changes, shifting traffic to the signalized Route 20 intersection with signal retiming), and explained that the March 2026 and September 2026 monitoring reports are waiting on Amazon employee survey data (a general manager change caused the delay). Board members questioned a possible error in the earlier morning-peak data (a claimed 80 percent reduction versus a 42 percent exceedance of design conditions), whether the ATCS was ever installed and optimized (a paper trail of permits and install dates was requested), and monitoring of side streets such as Stafford Street and Brookfield Road. The hearing was continued to October 21, which is expected to be a procedural session with KP Law (town counsel) on how to proceed.

Next was the Apple Trailer Realty LLC hearing for a special permit and site plan to build a roughly 10-acre gravel vehicle storage area (up to 695 geometric spaces, about 350-400 vehicles in practice, 25-30 trips per day) on Route 20, to store new Flex Car (Avis-owned) rental vehicles with no buildings, repairs, or employees on site. The owner described the site history; an abutting farm owner raised concerns about clearing, a drain pipe on her land, and a past online listing for tractor-trailer storage, and the board and applicant agreed to a condition that no work occur in the separate recently cleared area without returning to the board. It emerged the work began without permits and that the Conservation Commission had issued a cease and desist, with this hearing as the path to remedy it; stormwater review by the board is to precede a Conservation Commission filing. The Graves Engineering peer review letter still has open items, and the fire chief asked for 24-foot lanes, turning radii for engines, lanes kept clear (cones or marking) and gate/lockbox access shown on plans. Continued to October 21.

The board held a public hearing on three proposed zoning bylaw amendments for town meeting: defining "data center," listing data centers as not allowed in all districts, and adding an interim prohibition (moratorium) until the 2028 annual town meeting while the town studies siting, electrical supply, water, noise, decommissioning, and fiscal impacts. The board voted to recommend the articles; a resident (Michelle) asked how a moratorium works (two-thirds town meeting vote and state review; applications meanwhile would be denied) and voiced environmental concerns. CMRPC planners Emily Glovis and Emily T (CMRPC) returned with the revised redlined Housing Production Plan; discussion covered the 10 percent subsidized housing inventory, deed restrictions at 80 percent AMI, safe harbor, and Berlin as a comparison, and the board voted to approve the plan, which next goes to the Select Board and then the state for review. The board approved minutes from June 3, September 2, and September 16, 2026. In the staff update, Dylan raised using the Select Board room or adding a glass-walled office partition in the planning room; board members strongly opposed giving up the planning meeting room, and they discussed layout, new maps (zoning, open space, critical habitat), outdated GIS, and camera placement. The meeting adjourned by voice vote.

Issues discussed: Amazon Flex Delivery Station Route 20 Modification, Apple Trailer Realty Route 20 Vehicle Storage, Oxbow Road Reduced Frontage Lot (Hatch), Data Center Zoning Moratorium, Housing Production Plan and Chapter 40B, Planning Board Meeting Room and Office Space

Transcript

0:07 | being six o'clock, I'm going to open up
0:08 | the child planning board um October 7th
0:12 | um meeting.
0:15 | Um
0:16 | so first on the agenda is the um
0:22 | notice of public hearing for Robert
0:25 | Hatch on Oxboro
0:27 | Road. Um, in accordance with section
0:30 | 205.13
0:33 | and 200 um 7.2 to the child and zoning
0:37 | bylaw, the child and printing lab will
0:39 | hold the public hearing on Wednesday,
0:40 | October 7th in the planning board office
0:43 | in the George C. McKenry building, 37
0:46 | Main Street, Child Mass. [clears throat]
0:48 | Um, Robert Hatch um special permit for
0:51 | reduced financial lot to create one
0:53 | reduced financial lot to residential use
0:56 | with um
0:58 | 1.2
1:00 | ft of frontage on Oxbow Road. The
1:02 | proposed lot contains
1:08 | um 217,88
1:11 | square ft um over 5 acres. Property is
1:14 | short 22A um
1:19 | and is grown agricultural.
1:24 | Anything we should know about the
1:28 | Yes. So, I've got it right here. So,
1:30 | this has been um [clears throat] an old
1:34 | ANR that was done quite some time ago.
1:37 | When it was done, they never actually
1:38 | pursued the special permit for the
1:40 | reduced frontage lot. They're now
1:42 | getting the point where they do want to
1:44 | sell it and they would like to um make
1:48 | it a buildable lot. Uh the issue as was
1:51 | highlighted in the Graves Engineering
1:53 | report is that they just used the old
1:56 | plan which is still just missing uh a
1:58 | couple of details such as showing where
2:00 | on the uh lot they're actually going to
2:03 | put the house just showing all the
2:04 | boundary lines and things like that
2:06 | which it's very much up to the board. I
2:10 | put together a draft decision here for
2:13 | you folks that could allow you to move
2:15 | forward with this if you so chose to.
2:17 | That essentially conditions it by saying
2:19 | that um they'll still ultimately need to
2:24 | correct the plan, show all the details
2:26 | that can be handled administratively. It
2:28 | will still go to uh peer review to
2:31 | ensure compliance. If they can't do any
2:33 | of that, it will come back here to this
2:35 | board. We still have their peer review
2:38 | funding in escrow. So, [clears throat]
2:40 | we um
2:42 | I'm not terribly worried about that.
2:44 | That being said, it's generally not the
2:48 | best form to approve some complete
2:50 | plans,
2:51 | but the reduced frontage lot, it's not
2:55 | one that I'm terribly concerned with.
2:57 | So, I really leave it to the the
2:59 | discretion of the board. It would be
3:00 | perfectly acceptable for you folks to
3:02 | say, "No, we're just going to continue
3:03 | this. We want everything to match before
3:06 | you submit it." or if you'd prefer, you
3:08 | can uh approve it as condition and then
3:11 | that can all be handled
3:12 | administratively. It's it's totally up
3:14 | to you folks. No wrong way to do that.
3:17 | What was the reason it's put in front of
3:20 | us before just is there I mean is there
3:23 | a rush for timing or is it just fit into
3:25 | the I mean we actually have a a short
3:28 | agenda tonight. So
3:29 | yeah, it it fit into the agenda. It's
3:31 | something that we sent them this review.
3:33 | I spoke with their engineer. He is uh
3:37 | currently out with medical, so he just
3:39 | hasn't been able to get these plans uh
3:43 | completed before this hearing. So, it's
3:46 | something that again I
3:50 | have no issue doing administratively,
3:52 | but I think it makes perfect sense to do
3:55 | if you folks would like to just continue
3:56 | this to a month out, give them some time
3:59 | to uh get those plans together. I can
4:02 | always modify the decision to remove
4:04 | those conditions once the plans are full
4:07 | and completed.
4:08 | So it's this here.
4:09 | Yep. It's B.
4:10 | So it's here.
4:11 | Yeah, that's the one.
4:12 | So will the the vote up with the state
4:17 | change that at all? You know how they're
4:18 | they're not requiring special permit
4:21 | variances for frontage?
4:25 | No. Right. That new law. No, I think
4:28 | that's that's they're allowing that to
4:29 | be adopted by the town, but they are
4:32 | that's that was my understanding.
4:34 | That's not preempt.
4:36 | Yeah, I must not. Okay. Just so I was
4:38 | just prepared if 5 acres all of a sudden
4:41 | becomes a subdivision before us again
4:44 | and there's a driveway in a cold sack.
4:46 | So just
4:49 | not that it's there's a housing
4:51 | shortage. So
4:52 | and the state's encouraging that
4:58 | [clears throat]
4:59 | Otherwise, it looks like just literally
5:01 | some changes to the drawing and the
5:04 | condition.
5:04 | I mean, it's big enough. It's not it's
5:06 | it's five acres. So,
5:08 | so
5:10 | I would even ask if we need a peer
5:14 | review of that, but
5:16 | yeah, I I I let's let's make sure that
5:19 | we have, you know, we cross all our
5:20 | duties with peer review like I just in
5:23 | case. But um I have I mean I don't know
5:26 | how the bullet bills I have no problem
5:28 | if we approve it with conditions. I mean
5:32 | yeah. Yeah.
5:36 | Motion
5:37 | make a motion to approve the uh ANR plan
5:40 | of land and the reduced frontage comp uh
5:44 | conditions for this property located at
5:49 | uh lot B4 Oxboro Road in Charleston with
5:53 | the conditions as written.
5:56 | Second.
5:58 | All in favor?
6:00 | I I
6:13 | [clears throat]
6:14 | You want to wait to sign the need to
6:17 | sign?
6:18 | No. Yeah. Not an ANR. Just a special
6:20 | permit.
6:23 | All the ANR has already been
6:34 | We have the um the continued um public
6:39 | is that was that a public hearing? Do we
6:42 | need to close that public hearing?
6:46 | That was
6:48 | make a motion to close public. Second.
6:51 | All in favor? I
6:56 | um we have a continued public hearing
6:58 | for the um Amazon um
7:03 | flex program
7:09 | last mile delivery distribution. Um
7:14 | then just before we jump into that bring
7:17 | to the board and public's attention I
7:18 | did receive an email from uh Mr.
7:21 | Fontaine earlier today and we just want
7:23 | to make sure that it's uh captured in
7:25 | the public record. Um
7:28 | and I will the full email list will be
7:31 | in the public record. I will share that
7:32 | with the applicant as well, but I will
7:34 | go over and get over to Mr. Fontaine
7:36 | just so we can read what his concerns
7:38 | are here as well and that way everyone
7:42 | is on the same page. Thank you. And this
7:45 | is just a memo to uh the board that I
7:48 | sent before today before this meeting.
7:51 | uh and as summarizing just as a response
7:54 | to the summary that our planning
7:57 | director uh sent to all of us. So before
8:01 | considering the modification request of
8:02 | the original 2021 approval for the
8:04 | Amazon O3,
8:08 | I listed a couple of items uh which are
8:10 | the applicant has not provided a draft
8:12 | copy of the concept of operations report
8:15 | for the route 20 adaptive traffic
8:18 | control system called the ATCS.
8:22 | Another line item is the applicant has
8:24 | exceeded the traffic volume limits
8:26 | established in the original 2021
8:29 | approval. The facility has material
8:32 | increase and number of vehicle crashes.
8:34 | The facility has a negative impact to
8:36 | the operations of roadways and
8:38 | intersections and has operations over
8:40 | the volume to capacity ratios. The
8:43 | applicant has not submitted the required
8:44 | traffic monitoring reports and studies
8:47 | as mandated by condition 16.
8:50 | The applicant does not propose any
8:52 | mitigation actions triggered by the
8:54 | exceedence of those traffic thresholds
8:56 | including coordination with mass DOT.
8:58 | Additionally, planning should verify the
9:01 | following conditions.
9:03 | Five, updated contact info, eight mass
9:05 | DOT submittals, 15 mass DOT approvals,
9:09 | 19 spill response plan. I went on to
9:13 | further notice. We should issue a notice
9:15 | of violation based on these above
9:17 | factors and require corrective action
9:19 | and reszoning enforcement involvement.
9:22 | Meanwhile, continue the hearing for a
9:23 | new request. A planning board cannot
9:26 | approve a modification to a site plan or
9:28 | a special permit when the applicant is
9:31 | actively violating the existing approval
9:33 | upon which the modifications depend.
9:38 | Just for the record. Thank you. Nice.
9:43 | message.
9:49 | I I agree and I have even additional
9:53 | concerns but not even needed at this
9:55 | point. Um so do we want to with this? Do
10:00 | you want to just continue and we can
10:02 | address I mean we have to until we
10:05 | I would I would recommend that we we
10:08 | hear the uh information from the uh the
10:11 | traffic studies. So we have that and
10:13 | then um believe at our next session we
10:17 | will have KP law uh be able to attend as
10:20 | well and they'll be able to give uh
10:22 | guidance on on moving forward and those
10:25 | I would say will be be [clears throat]
10:26 | the next steps from here.
10:28 | Makes sense. I would just uh and I
10:31 | noticed our traffic engineer, Mr. Misho,
10:34 | is here. Thanks for being here, Bob. Um,
10:37 | just before that, can can I make a
10:39 | motion to just uh send a memo for notice
10:44 | of violation to our zoning enforcement
10:46 | officer just to get that on record and
10:48 | then he can start with the proceedings
10:52 | uh that are all conditional from the
10:54 | original approval of Amazon and start,
10:56 | you know? Well, I think we we vote for
10:58 | Dylan to send
11:00 | Okay.
11:00 | the the concerns. That's that would be
11:02 | the
11:03 | Yeah, that that's good enough. If you
11:05 | can kind of summarize this
11:08 | and my understanding is that
11:11 | only the zoning enforcement officer can
11:13 | create a notice of violation. That's a
11:16 | very formal thing or something like
11:17 | that, but we can request that you do
11:19 | that based on some factors like
11:23 | Yep. Thank you. will be going through a
11:27 | support in that process.
11:28 | Administration uh an administrative
11:31 | question. Um so
11:35 | obviously we're um we catching the
11:37 | violations now because of a new
11:39 | application but um
11:42 | are who's um who's supposed to be
11:45 | actively monitoring those? Yeah, the the
11:48 | planning board um should be monitoring
11:50 | those and a lot of the triggers uh that
11:53 | would help us monitor are the filing of
11:56 | the traffic
11:58 | reports on the six-month frequency after
12:01 | occupancy. So, we've started to get some
12:04 | of those and that's where these
12:06 | violations are now.
12:07 | If it isn't on their list, you know, on
12:09 | their calendar as a reminder, right,
12:11 | they're going to forget to do it and if
12:12 | it's not on our calendar, we're going to
12:13 | forget to ask. So I think you need to
12:16 | after that talk about the editing
12:18 | process about
12:19 | Yeah.
12:20 | putting some ownership on the followup
12:22 | piece.
12:22 | Yeah. Exactly.
12:29 | So do we have to vote to have
12:32 | Dylan?
12:36 | Will you follow up?
12:38 | I think that's all request from the
12:40 | chair probably.
12:41 | [clears throat]
12:41 | Um, so yeah, I think that if they're
12:44 | they're in violation, then yeah, the I
12:46 | copied the commissioner on this, so I'm
12:48 | sure he'll be in touch with you.
12:50 | Yeah. So
12:54 | the presentation
12:57 | whe you want to [cough] applicant or
12:59 | [clears throat]
13:00 | however you want to do
13:02 | applicant we probably you guys can come
13:05 | and
13:06 | sit
13:08 | yet
13:15 | I'll be back.
13:16 | Do we have a
13:18 | look?
13:19 | Uh sure.
13:28 | Okay. My name is Matt, the CESO
13:30 | Architects and Engineers, owners agent
13:33 | uh for the application here today. Uh
13:35 | just an opening comment. I can tell you
13:37 | that I talked to the GM this afternoon.
13:39 | They're unaware of any violations. So,
13:42 | what I would welcome is Dylan for you to
13:44 | send that to me. Let me immediately get
13:46 | that into their hands because I think
13:47 | that if they knew that they would run to
13:49 | those wonderful I'll send you the email
13:52 | after you.
13:53 | So we appreciate that Mr. Fontaine. We
13:55 | will address that with them and get them
13:58 | on
13:58 | and and a lot of these just came because
14:00 | of the traffic studies. Now it's all of
14:02 | a sudden like oh we need to address
14:04 | these. So that's which were kind of
14:06 | recent. So I understand why they may not
14:08 | have seen them prior to this.
14:10 | Sure. I'd be happy to take it. So, in
14:13 | light of the conversation about traffic,
14:14 | I think we should start there. Uh, we
14:17 | just read your report yesterday, so your
14:19 | peer review of that. So, we appreciate
14:22 | that. I think the
14:23 | Did you receive the today's email?
14:26 | No, I only have the I sent you
14:29 | everything, but it was it came in later
14:31 | in the day. So, you would receive that
14:33 | email maybe sometime around 4:00
14:35 | yesterday. Today.
14:37 | Okay. Today.
14:38 | I did not.
14:39 | Yeah.
14:40 | So, I got some yesterday. Yeah, there
14:43 | there there's not a lot of new
14:44 | information in what we did, but it's it
14:46 | does relate to the specific application
14:49 | for the boy.
14:50 | So, I think we're clear to talk about
14:52 | that. I have Zach with me from Vanos uh
14:54 | traffic engineers as well. Let me just
14:56 | say as a real high point, the facility
14:58 | is very open to the idea of working on
15:01 | the uh mitigative recommendations that
15:03 | you made, Bob. It's not uncommon that
15:05 | they'll do that at other facilities.
15:07 | They're open to those ideas, the ideas
15:09 | of a traffic coordinator. um having a a
15:12 | regular way in which you engage the
15:14 | employees on modes of transportation
15:17 | uh surveying the employees things of
15:19 | this nature. So I have kind of a list of
15:20 | things going for that. Um I also think
15:23 | there's opportunities to maybe take a
15:25 | look at um it's interesting in this case
15:27 | we originally thought that the uh
15:31 | traffic for the supplemental program
15:33 | would go out the rear exit at 169. The
15:36 | data is showing us the opposite of that.
15:38 | push more traffic up to the front of of
15:40 | Route 20, which is kind of the essence
15:42 | of your report, I think, Bob.
15:44 | So, what I'd like to do is maybe have
15:47 | some dialogue about how we can help the
15:50 | facility understand how they can utilize
15:52 | that better and more efficiently get
15:53 | traffic out of the front of the
15:54 | facility, but also at the back of the
15:56 | facility. I drove it four or five times
15:58 | uh before coming into the meeting here
16:00 | today.
16:01 | I think there's still some opportunities
16:03 | to maybe do some things like uh lane
16:06 | stacking extensions, arrows, uh things
16:09 | that would improve the way in which
16:10 | people go out. I sat there for a number
16:13 | of hours and observed the traffic.
16:15 | They're all pedestrian cars going out of
16:17 | there. They have the rear exit of the
16:20 | truckyard facility is all closed and
16:22 | chained off. They use a fac a technology
16:25 | called Sentinel system. So when truck
16:28 | drivers come to the facility, they bring
16:29 | them in through an automated process at
16:31 | the front entrance. And when they come
16:33 | into the truckard, they come and and
16:35 | either drop off a a trailer or pick one
16:38 | up, they go back out that same way
16:39 | because of the way the Sentinel system
16:41 | works. So I say that to say the rear
16:44 | semiexit that goes out down over the
16:47 | hill down to 169, they're not using that
16:50 | for trailers. all the more reason I
16:53 | think that we can maybe take that area
16:55 | there and clean up some of the striping
16:57 | and line work there and improve the way
16:59 | that we want people to leave the
17:00 | facility. So, let me pause there and
17:03 | have Zach I want I want to have Zach
17:05 | kind of talk about the metric side of
17:08 | the traffic and then Bob feel free to
17:09 | collaborate and interact. I think it's
17:11 | good that we collectively
17:14 | put our traffic binds together and come
17:16 | up with the best way to guide this
17:17 | client on what's best for the town.
17:21 | So, as we discussed last time, the major
17:24 | thing we want to do here is to shift the
17:25 | traffic, as he was saying, um, to
17:29 | southbound traffic to South Bridge to
17:30 | the 169 driveway. So, right out, left
17:33 | in, and all other traffic is already
17:36 | bound for Route 20. So, they should be
17:38 | using the route 20 uh, signalized
17:40 | intersection because there's more
17:42 | capacity there that's afforded. Um, our
17:45 | analysis, we looked at two conditions.
17:47 | is a future condition 2033 with
17:50 | background projects that are also
17:52 | proposed uh to the town without a shift
17:56 | and there was long cues on the 169
17:59 | driveway uh with more capacity still
18:02 | afforded at the route 20 intersection.
18:03 | So we looked at another future condition
18:05 | with the trip reassignment. What we
18:07 | found there is that with signal retiming
18:09 | at route 20 and the route 20 or at the
18:12 | route 20 driveway and the route 20 and
18:14 | Route 169 intersection that the capacity
18:18 | is uh or the operations there will
18:20 | operate much better that there will be
18:23 | minimal cues on the 169 intersection. Um
18:27 | and that's really our plan going
18:28 | forward. We also have some other
18:29 | mitigation that we propose as part of
18:31 | our letter uh which is the signal
18:33 | retiming also for safety uh reviewing
18:36 | clearance times yellow and reds um to
18:39 | address the safety issue. Uh we had a we
18:42 | offered a collision diagram in there uh
18:44 | which shows where the crashes are
18:46 | happening, what the most prevalent types
18:48 | of crashes are. Um
18:51 | and that's really the main thing. The
18:54 | September I'll talk about the monitoring
18:55 | program briefly. The September and March
18:58 | 2025 monitoring programs have been
19:01 | submitted to DOT and have been approved
19:03 | conditionally based on us providing uh
19:06 | the survey data from Amazon employee
19:08 | survey data which is in relation to the
19:11 | transportation demand management
19:12 | program.
19:14 | Um the March 2026
19:17 | report is complete but we're awaiting
19:19 | the survey data from Amazon which we're
19:20 | working with them currently to get. Uh
19:23 | and the September 2026 monitoring will
19:25 | be done by the end of the month with
19:27 | that data.
19:28 | Yeah.
19:29 | So that's where we're at there. Um just
19:33 | just may I just chair a question about
19:36 | the September 2025
19:39 | traffic study.
19:42 | Is there a way to amend that? I think
19:45 | there is a a big error in the collection
19:49 | and presentation of the data for the
19:52 | morning uh weekday
19:55 | peak load. It seems like you're trying
19:58 | to say it was reduced from the original
20:02 | conditions by 80% which is fantastic but
20:06 | actually it's over the original design
20:10 | conditions by 42%. So I think we need an
20:13 | amendment on the Veness report for
20:16 | September 2021.
20:18 | Well, I think that also,
20:20 | you know, that could be something, but
20:22 | uh with doing it, you know, by annually
20:26 | and this March and September, it's going
20:28 | to have new data which is going to be
20:30 | more representative of what's happening
20:32 | out there right now. Um,
20:35 | so but if you submitted that to Mass D,
20:38 | maybe [clears throat] there's a quick
20:39 | correction. You could just make an
20:41 | amendment to that particular report
20:42 | would be great. Thank you.
20:50 | Yeah, I think to that point I
20:52 | [clears throat] think there was uh
20:55 | some confusion in how the site trips
20:58 | were recorded in the monitoring. Um
21:02 | typically what you would do is um
21:04 | identify the highest combination of
21:07 | traffic right between the site and the
21:09 | adjacent street.
21:11 | And what the what the proponent has done
21:14 | in the monitoring is they've consistent
21:16 | with section 61 finding requirements.
21:18 | They've gone out and done an earlier
21:20 | morning count
21:21 | right earlier than was originally done
21:23 | for the permitting. I think they start
21:25 | at 6:00 in the morning
21:27 | and capturing up to at least 9 or 10:00
21:30 | in the morning and then likewise in the
21:31 | afternoon they they had an earlier start
21:33 | 3:00 went to 600.
21:35 | If you look [clears throat] at um I
21:38 | believe what what the Amazon has
21:39 | attempted to do is to have an earlier
21:41 | shift period to avoid the so-called
21:44 | commuter period which is traditionally
21:46 | between 7 and 9.
21:48 | Yeah. So what the monitoring report it
21:52 | indicated is um the facility peak
21:55 | traffic generation which in fact occurs
21:58 | prior to 7:00 in the morning
22:01 | but the intersection volumes are
22:05 | cumulatively higher
22:07 | right and that's the so-called what I
22:09 | would call the design condition for the
22:11 | intersection
22:13 | and it's those the [clears throat]
22:15 | traffic volumes that the facility is
22:17 | generating during that intersection peak
22:19 | hour are higher.
22:21 | Yeah,
22:22 | they're not lower. They're not they're
22:24 | higher than what the record
22:26 | and that's the point that we made in
22:27 | here. So I think
22:28 | okay
22:29 | um [clears throat]
22:31 | ideally um well you know it's it's
22:34 | important to make sure that that's
22:35 | understood.
22:36 | Yeah.
22:37 | Um the design volumes that were used in
22:40 | evaluating the impact of the project
22:42 | were done correctly.
22:45 | uh and [clears throat] they accurate
22:47 | excuse me they accurately portray u the
22:50 | capacity impact of the project. Now
22:53 | we're very much looking forward to the
22:54 | March and September data because I know
22:57 | in the submitted materials for the flex
23:00 | space there were updated counts from
23:02 | this year
23:04 | that would indicate that there's been an
23:05 | uptick again in some of the site related
23:08 | the design volumes if you will that
23:10 | happen in the major sections.
23:13 | I just wanted to clarify.
23:14 | Yeah. Okay.
23:18 | Um, would you like me to hit the
23:20 | highlights of
23:21 | Yeah, I mean quickly this I think we're
23:23 | going to summarize this and then get
23:25 | back to the original site.
23:28 | Yeah. So to to the to the um conditions
23:31 | that NASA DOT and the town required
23:34 | [snorts] the applicant uh was to provide
23:37 | uh monitoring results if you will within
23:40 | a month of completing them. Right. And
23:42 | there's been a little bit of a log jam
23:44 | in that respect. So, we simply note
23:46 | that, you know, the upcoming reports now
23:49 | dating back to March of this year and
23:52 | last month sound like they're imminent.
23:55 | Uh, but um what's difficult to do in
23:58 | recommending actions is to say, okay,
24:02 | the reason we're doing six month
24:04 | check-ins is to catch problems early
24:07 | and be able to rectify them in a
24:09 | [clears throat] timely way. So, um, we
24:12 | had a challenging time kind of trying to
24:15 | chase the dog's tail around this a
24:17 | little bit. And, uh, you know,
24:19 | ultimately what we attempted to do is
24:22 | to, um, uh, work off of our findings in
24:26 | the monitoring reports and correlate
24:29 | that to actions that may be appropriate
24:31 | for the flex use,
24:33 | which is the subject of today's letter.
24:35 | Yeah.
24:36 | Right. So, there's two sets of comments.
24:38 | One is relating to the monitoring uh and
24:41 | the mitigation that is suggested uh and
24:45 | the other is uh specific to the facility
24:48 | but also mirrors that there's the same
24:52 | obligation if you will
24:54 | under the [clears throat] flex space to
24:55 | achieve the same
24:56 | progress. Yeah. Um so you know in in
25:00 | summary that mitigation would
25:02 | principally target trying to shift
25:04 | volumes to the route 20 intersection as
25:07 | as the proponent has indicated.
25:10 | Um also
25:12 | um focusing and uh providing a more
25:16 | detailed assessment of the crash trends
25:17 | along with 20 because interestingly
25:20 | crash trends have gone up consistently
25:24 | for each of the monitoring periods.
25:25 | Right. Yeah. which I
25:28 | didn't like to see.
25:29 | Yeah.
25:30 | And of course, major contributor to that
25:33 | is this facility.
25:34 | Uh so there's a little more homework
25:36 | that needs to be done. Um they've begun
25:38 | that process and how they've addressed
25:40 | the flex use um [clears throat] uh spec
25:43 | excuse me specifically focused on the
25:46 | route 2169 intersection. So they have in
25:48 | fact provided um collision diagramming
25:51 | and come up with some potential
25:53 | solutions. Uh that same process needs to
25:56 | narrow for three other locations.
25:58 | Yeah. To spread out to those other
26:00 | Yeah.
26:02 | [clears throat]
26:02 | And do you know Zach how Vaness is doing
26:05 | with the March and the September
26:07 | traffic studies and reports?
26:09 | Yeah. The March the March 2026 is done
26:13 | uh internally. We haven't submitted it
26:14 | yet because we need the the survey data.
26:18 | Uh September we're preparing currently.
26:21 | Mhm.
26:21 | Um, like I said, that'll be done at the
26:23 | end of October. Uh, if we receive the
26:26 | data, which we should
26:28 | hold up is the survey data from the site
26:31 | that site had a GM change within the
26:33 | last 6 months. The new GM was unaware
26:36 | that that wasn't submitted yet to Vanos.
26:38 | So, there's a little bit of a
26:40 | communication delay there between that.
26:41 | I'm just making that, but absolutely
26:44 | positive. I got to have that within days
26:46 | so that Vanos can complete their work.
26:48 | Is that like a manual
26:50 | check or electronic or [clears throat] I
26:53 | don't know the
26:54 | for the survey?
26:55 | Yeahve survey. Yeah, it's a it's a link
26:59 | um that they'll send out to the
27:00 | employees. They can click on it and then
27:02 | they it's a short question and then
27:05 | they'll send it over to us.
27:08 | So we believe that that can all be
27:09 | chewed up, you know, pretty quickly
27:11 | within a short amount of time, brought
27:13 | back into Vanos,
27:14 | integrated into the actually goes
27:16 | through mass first and integrated into
27:19 | the reports and then doc you can take a
27:20 | look at that as well.
27:23 | So we want to get that all taken care of
27:26 | and recognized.
27:26 | Yeah. Do do you know Bob how do we
27:29 | verify whether this adaptive traffic
27:33 | control system has ever been touched and
27:37 | implemented?
27:38 | Yeah. So that's a question we have. We
27:40 | we have a section in here that
27:42 | essentially requires that the proponent
27:46 | validate that the system has been
27:48 | installed
27:49 | and that has been fine-tuned
27:52 | and implemented optimized.
27:54 | Right.
27:57 | But there's some intersection here with
27:59 | mass DOT like they control it or
28:02 | something like how do we know?
28:04 | It's incumbent on the proponent to
28:06 | actually implement that system.
28:08 | Yeah. subject to permits from master.
28:11 | So, uh we just simply look for
28:13 | validation on when the equipment was
28:15 | installed and the status of any permit
28:18 | that would relate to that.
28:19 | So, there should be some paper trail
28:21 | permits and implementation dates or
28:24 | something. Okay.
28:25 | You know, I I I'm [clears throat] not
28:26 | certain that the system's fully
28:28 | functional. In my experience in
28:30 | traveling along the quarter on several
28:31 | occasions, it suggests that it it's not
28:34 | working as efficiently as it could. Mhm.
28:36 | Um the idea between an AC uh an advanced
28:39 | traffic control system is that it allows
28:42 | uh for the signal timing settings to
28:46 | modulate based on demand, right? And
28:49 | optimize essentially progressive flow.
28:52 | So you have platoon flow on route 20.
28:55 | Um that can be complicated by the number
28:59 | of folks who for instance are turning
29:01 | from Route 20 to 169. That left turn
29:04 | handles over 500
29:05 | turns an hour.
29:06 | Yeah.
29:07 | Um where the eastbound 20 approach is
29:11 | essentially converts into a single lane
29:13 | pretty pretty abruptly. Um so trying to
29:16 | balance how efficiencies work there
29:19 | against where the driveway is in the 20.
29:21 | They're two different animals, right?
29:24 | So I I just want to see some paper.
29:26 | Yeah. Yeah. Good. Keep keep an eye on
29:28 | that for us, please. Thank you.
29:30 | Good. Thanks for the summary, gentlemen.
29:32 | So, is [clears throat] the monitoring
29:34 | question for the chair um is the
29:36 | monitoring done just on South Beach Road
29:38 | and and Sterbridge Road and those
29:40 | intersections or have you looked at some
29:42 | of the side streets that have uh
29:44 | definitely have increased volume since
29:46 | since Amazon has come
29:47 | there's a stepped approach to the
29:48 | monitoring. So the first monitoring
29:50 | report this date dates back to March
29:52 | 2025 started with the premise of looking
29:55 | at the driveways to understand whether
29:57 | or not the thresholds that obligated
29:59 | additional monitoring are met and they
30:03 | were so uh subsequent to March I believe
30:07 | it was May of 2025 they went back out
30:10 | and counted supplemental locations that
30:13 | included I think four separate locations
30:15 | along Route 20. uh and those got incor
30:18 | incorporated into the monitor report.
30:21 | Good. The subsequent September report
30:23 | did the whole thing all at once in
30:24 | September understanding that those
30:26 | thresholds were were met. So all of the
30:28 | principally impacted intersections
30:30 | mainly along the reporting quarter are
30:33 | included in the monitoring.
30:35 | I just hear there's a lot [cough] on
30:37 | [clears throat] like Brookfield Road and
30:39 | Stafford Street.
30:40 | Yeah, Stafford especially. So you know
30:43 | people taking that turn on Stafford
30:45 | Street could be going either direction.
30:47 | But I know that the traffic has greatly
30:49 | picked up there in the past couple of
30:50 | years.
30:51 | Oh, for sure. I mean, this is uh this is
30:54 | the gorilla in the room, right? It's
30:55 | it's it's it's contributed uh by far the
30:58 | largest amount of traffic in recent
31:01 | years to the 20th quarter. Um the
31:04 | capacity analyses that were submitted in
31:06 | monitoring do validate that under
31:08 | today's condition, those intersections,
31:10 | even though they have a higher volume,
31:13 | are operating below their capacity.
31:15 | Right. the level of service D standard.
31:17 | Um [clears throat] but to the safety uh
31:20 | aspect the increase in volume while the
31:24 | capacity may exist has resulted in an
31:27 | increase consistent increase the
31:30 | frequency of crashes. So that's the uh
31:33 | what we're trying to solve
31:45 | through the chair. I guess a question.
31:46 | Should we continue uh request a
31:50 | continuation
31:52 | for this for
31:53 | Do you want to do any questions for
31:56 | Yes, please. Yeah.
31:58 | Do we have any questions?
31:59 | Comments. comments from
32:02 | public.
32:07 | Um I I it makes sense to
32:09 | I mean I think what we're hearing is
32:12 | we're waiting for the traffic studies.
32:13 | So end of October is uh you know then we
32:17 | need a peer review on it. So that's
32:19 | November. How about continue to January
32:21 | through the holidays for the next visit?
32:27 | Just one thing. What's our time frame
32:28 | for [clears throat]
32:30 | do we have
32:32 | I would recommend we do continues
32:34 | [clears throat] to just two weeks out
32:35 | just because we have KP law where they
32:38 | can kind of
32:38 | they are scheduled. Yeah.
32:40 | Yep. So that way they can can come in
32:41 | and we can do a little bit of the the
32:43 | legal proceeding, make sure that we're
32:46 | proceeding the correct way. And then
32:48 | from there, we can really get into the
32:50 | the timeline questions, things like
32:52 | that, and really make sure that we've
32:54 | kind of got all our ducks in a row with
32:56 | everything that we need outstanding to
32:58 | be answered before we could uh move
33:01 | forward. And that should give us a lot
33:03 | more clarity as well for ourselves and
33:05 | the applicant. Is there anything else
33:07 | that Amazon needs to do prior to the
33:09 | 21st, which will be our next meeting in
33:12 | two weeks other than traffic reports?
33:16 | I think there'll be some activity as you
33:18 | mentioned just as a result of some of
33:20 | the things that we picked up. I'm sure
33:22 | they'll be looking into that.
33:23 | Yeah, we'll respond to NBM's comments.
33:28 | Is the goal on the night of the 21st
33:30 | with the law component? Um, do you want
33:32 | to talk traffic and law, you know,
33:34 | procedural what you want to do.
33:36 | I think I think it might be we should
33:39 | probably get in touch next week. We'll
33:40 | kind of figure out where we're at with
33:42 | everything and then I'll touch base with
33:44 | you folks and we'll see kind of what
33:45 | makes the most sense. Uh because once
33:47 | that hearing is open, the the board has
33:50 | the flexibility to talk about different
33:51 | elements of it just as long as we're
33:53 | scheduled for that 21st. So, uh we can
33:56 | get in touch early next week on Monday,
33:59 | Tuesday and then figure out what the
34:00 | best approach is for that meeting.
34:01 | Sure.
34:05 | Monday
34:06 | opinion would be throttle back on the
34:08 | traffic. I think there's a couple lists
34:10 | of other activities here.
34:12 | That's what I was kind of asking whether
34:14 | whether [clears throat] you want to try
34:15 | to tackle both of those on the 21st push
34:17 | traffic to a little bit later time.
34:19 | Yeah, just more time for traffic. I
34:22 | there's no new information
34:26 | in two weeks. If everything's settled in
34:30 | two weeks, awesome. But uh no, this will
34:32 | will most likely be more just the the
34:34 | legal proceedings
34:35 | procedural.
34:36 | Yep. Procedural meeting.
34:38 | You want us here for that, right?
34:39 | Um
34:41 | possibly probably uh we'll talk to uh KP
34:45 | Law attorneys. We'll see what they think
34:47 | is the best approach for it. And then if
34:49 | you folks would like to come, you're
34:50 | always welcome to come. Um, but whether
34:53 | it makes more sense to even possibly a
34:56 | the a call-in instead of having that fly
34:58 | all the way down here. That might also
34:59 | be too.
35:00 | We could do that, too.
35:01 | Well, it may not be maybe it's just the
35:05 | GM from the property uh representatives
35:09 | rather than considering a new
35:10 | application. I think
35:12 | Yeah.
35:12 | You know what I mean?
35:13 | Yeah.
35:15 | To answer for some of these other
35:17 | outstanding issues maybe.
35:18 | Yeah. He had a scheduling conflict.
35:20 | Yeah. I try hard to get in here if you
35:22 | can't be here by
35:24 | [clears throat]
35:28 | what was that date?
35:29 | Uh October 20th.
35:30 | Make a motion to continue the public
35:32 | hearing for Amazon RH3 flex delivery to
35:36 | October 21st.
35:38 | Second.
35:40 | All in favor? I
35:41 | I
35:43 | Thank you. Thank you guys. I do. Thank
35:45 | you.
36:01 | I'm just
36:10 | slip on that accidentally and um
36:13 | Oh, yeah. For the obligation. Right.
36:16 | Right. Right.
36:17 | I haven't kept track of that stopwatch.
36:21 | So,
36:22 | we're still in a good time frame now and
36:24 | we'll kind of get all the questions
36:26 | answered if you want so we're not making
36:28 | any procedural mistakes.
36:31 | Cool.
36:34 | So, we have a public hearing. Oh, we
36:39 | open the public hearing for Apple LLC
36:42 | and 2853
36:44 | Road
36:49 | in SE
36:51 | 20.2 D6J 2.87.1
36:55 | Um
36:57 | 7.1
36:59 | um 2007.17.2
37:03 | which I'll be building by lunch and
37:06 | public hearing by Wednesday, October
37:07 | 7th, 2026 at 6 p.m. um in the planning
37:11 | good office um Apple Trailer Realy LLC
37:15 | 263 Wister Road Child and Math for
37:19 | special permit and site plan approval to
37:21 | construct a gravel vehicle storage and
37:23 | parking area with approximately 695
37:26 | spaces for company owned vehicles and
37:28 | equipment including clearing grading
37:31 | urban beam BMS and storm water detention
37:35 | basins and soils. No buildings are
37:37 | proposed. The property is shown on
37:38 | assessor's map 36 block a parcels one um
37:43 | 1.1 and 1.2 and there's no business um
37:46 | enterprise park [snorts]
37:50 | I will
37:54 | open up to the applicant to do a brief
37:57 | presentation.
37:58 | Thank you members of the board. My name
38:00 | is George Kichi. [clears throat] I'm an
38:02 | attorney office in Weston. I'm
38:04 | representing the applicant uh Apple
38:07 | Trailer Realy LLC. Uh with me tonight is
38:10 | Steve Robinson who's one of the
38:13 | principles and managers of the uh of
38:16 | Apple Apple trailer. With me also is
38:20 | Dian Prowley who is one of the principal
38:22 | owners of this property. Uh he's asked
38:25 | that he speak initially to just to give
38:28 | you a lay of the land, brief history of
38:30 | the site photo. I'd like to do that then
38:33 | I can jump back in and give a little
38:36 | further presentation with it. I also
38:38 | also with us tonight is Micah Lilla.
38:41 | He's a professional engineer with
38:43 | Tropical Land Survey. He's the one who's
38:44 | actually filed the application and has
38:46 | advanced uh the application to the board
38:49 | so far. So he'll be here to answer
38:51 | technical questions. So uh Mr. Crow just
38:55 | give the board a history of the
38:57 | property.
38:57 | Okay. That's a the photo that was taken
39:01 | approximately 1986.
39:03 | Okay. Um my partner and I bought the
39:06 | property in 1985.
39:09 | We're both much younger then. And um the
39:12 | property has never been served by water
39:14 | and sewer. Even though there's a water
39:16 | line that runs down here, you know, the
39:18 | water goes to the turnpike, but we
39:21 | haven't had it. So, we haven't had a lot
39:24 | of um expansion over the years because
39:29 | the the codes have changed where it used
39:32 | to be um here's an example across from
39:36 | Samson Road's a 20,000t building. When I
39:39 | built that just because I and there was
39:42 | no one I could tap into, I could have
39:45 | access around it. So, I could build the
39:47 | money I could build 40,000 square feet.
39:50 | Well, every year they change or every
39:52 | few years they change the code. Today,
39:55 | if I have a building 6,000 square feet
39:57 | of water, I have to have a sprinkler
39:59 | system, which means I have to have a
40:00 | water tank, which means I have to have a
40:02 | separate meeting building for a general.
40:05 | So, this has laid daunted for all that
40:07 | time. Um, in the meantime, I I developed
40:10 | the uh um when Cohen general went out of
40:13 | business, I bought that building and I
40:16 | have 40 acres. I developed the Sturfish
40:18 | Industrial Park out. I did the IPG
40:20 | Phonics Park in uh in Oxford and the
40:24 | Goyer Industrial Park, but I've been
40:28 | this has been always been the poor
40:29 | cousin. Okay. So anyway, um this here
40:34 | was all leveled years ago. This was uh
40:38 | the Kiw company's uh construction and
40:41 | mining financing. They were the lead
40:44 | builder, the lead contractor in the big
40:46 | diggers Pini uh Keywit Perini and
40:50 | Cashman, but they were the they financed
40:53 | the project and they ran the project.
40:56 | So, this was a lay down area we always
40:58 | had here for their this is the beginning
41:01 | of what they had. For example, when the
41:04 | when the Zika bridge was being built,
41:06 | they didn't have room for the steel. It
41:09 | was here. Okay. So over the years this
41:12 | has been a storage area. Okay. Um and
41:16 | then along the way we got an earth
41:18 | removal permit from the board of
41:20 | selectment. Well back then when we got
41:22 | that you know there wasn't storm water
41:24 | management but so we you know we have
41:27 | this is this site was all prepared for
41:30 | storm water management and um as well
41:35 | this site over the years. So then under
41:39 | our under you know the um earth removal
41:44 | permit we started this here and then we
41:47 | were terracing it for either three
41:49 | buildings and then when Apple came along
41:52 | they needed vehicle storage. Another
41:54 | thing you along the history of this when
41:56 | we started this um about five or six
41:59 | years into it that's when they started
42:02 | talking about um Route 20 being rebuilt
42:07 | and that was for years that was in
42:09 | process but what the state did they gave
42:12 | us the turnaround in the entrance so um
42:16 | so that helped us so so um
42:20 | so anyway um that that's That's a
42:24 | history of what we've had here. And um
42:27 | this is an important um uh a tenant for
42:31 | ours because uh they're not creating a
42:34 | lot of traffic. It's about 30 vehicles a
42:37 | day and you'll hear more about that. But
42:39 | I mean um in the last four or five years
42:43 | my partner and I between this and other
42:45 | land we had and luckily we sold the
42:48 | piece but we we've paid over a half
42:50 | million dollars in taxes.
42:53 | So um um so anyway luckily we've owned
42:58 | this long enough we don't have any debt.
43:01 | Um so that that's the history. And we
43:04 | also have a uh uh I have a drone um
43:09 | photo you can see. One thing I'd like to
43:11 | say is um right here [clears throat]
43:13 | between the agricultural zone here and
43:17 | here uh there's over 100 foot of tree
43:20 | buck. Okay. So um um
43:26 | uh so anyway that's um
43:28 | what is currently in that area right
43:29 | now?
43:30 | What's that?
43:30 | What's currently in that area right now?
43:32 | It's just right here
43:33 | to the right of his def
43:36 | here.
43:36 | Yeah.
43:37 | Oh, that was a borrow.
43:40 | No. And this here,
43:41 | we used to own this. We sold this to
43:43 | what was Zen MCI, which is now Verizon.
43:46 | Yeah. That's the uh switch center
43:49 | for all of New England. There's a line
43:51 | that comes up in Conrail, another one,
43:52 | the turnpike. There's four dedicated
43:55 | lines in case one of them is
43:57 | interrupted. I was more curious on what
43:59 | was being used on that other that spot
44:01 | to the left there which is the the lot
44:04 | that's upgrade from Instafoam. I see
44:06 | there's like a lot of cars in there or
44:08 | something up there
44:09 | in Citr.
44:10 | Yes.
44:11 | Oh, and here
44:13 | is is that
44:14 | that this is the in this is in situ
44:16 | right here. Okay.
44:17 | Yeah. And and here for years um after
44:21 | Kiwi left this is Cisco.
44:23 | So every night they bring in 20 reefers.
44:26 | Okay. And um
44:27 | so maybe it's that lot that's just on
44:29 | this side of where the MCI building was.
44:31 | There's I just it looks like car parking
44:32 | lot there now.
44:34 | Okay. Now you you'll see on the video
44:36 | you'll see on that. Okay. All right.
44:38 | Thank you.
44:40 | Thank you. You mind? I'll just play the
44:42 | next video just
44:46 | again
44:49 | comment on
44:51 | the the driveway coming into the site
44:54 | from 20
44:58 | on the big screen.
44:59 | I didn't I didn't like
45:02 | Oh yeah. Yeah. Everybody can see it.
45:04 | Okay.
45:07 | There's a hard wire. Make it easier if
45:10 | you want. Okay.
45:11 | No Wi-Fi.
45:17 | Might protect it.
45:18 | H.
45:19 | Yep. You can use the hard wire if that's
45:20 | easiest.
45:21 | That's fine. Yeah.
45:25 | Troubleshooting otherwise
45:31 | the product can give us the play by
45:32 | play.
45:34 | That's good.
45:37 | [clears throat]
45:38 | Yeah. The um [music]
45:40 | the people that did the video made a
45:42 | mistake. It's 253 Westerota.
45:45 | [music]
45:46 | Excuse me, sir.
45:51 | [music] Okay, that's the main drive
45:53 | going in. Uh there's two buildings to
45:55 | the right. Uh that's a steel fabricator
45:59 | there. [music]
46:00 | That building there is a um uh that's a
46:04 | um solar uh group that that uh that's
46:09 | their warehouse for their solar thing.
46:11 | The other one that's a distributor for
46:13 | uh electric motor
46:15 | that's existing gravel driveway.
46:16 | Yeah. Then there's a gravel that's
46:18 | that's where the cars presently are.
46:20 | They're for storage. They're not um
46:24 | uh you know they're they're not in
46:27 | they're not coming in and out two or
46:29 | three times a day and that's where we
46:31 | set the earth removal. So there's you're
46:34 | going west. Okay.
46:37 | And then all right then coming back
46:39 | towards Route 20 that's in Sichuan
46:42 | building and then to the left you can
46:45 | see um Cisco
46:54 | So now you can see Route 20.
47:02 | There's more automobile storage.
47:05 | And then uh there's storage there. See
47:08 | all those timbers? Those are the ones
47:10 | that you see that go out as they here as
47:12 | they're rewiring the grit. Those are the
47:14 | ones they you know so they can cross
47:17 | over the wetlands. Yeah.
47:19 | And then that's part of our uh earth
47:23 | removal. And this has been cleared here.
47:26 | And then on the other side of the tree.
47:29 | So you get two barriers of trees before
47:33 | you reach the blanchet property that's
47:35 | west of ours.
47:40 | And then that's a small pond. There's
47:43 | two ponds there. Someone told me years
47:44 | ago they were ice ponds. There's one
47:47 | there. And then there's one in the
47:48 | Hulkran property just below there. And
47:51 | then we're coming back out to uh uh
47:55 | where we started.
47:59 | So that tree perimeter is remaining.
48:01 | What's there right now?
48:02 | That's right. There's two there's
48:04 | between where this is proposed. There's
48:07 | two tree perimeters.
48:10 | So can you go back to the part that
48:13 | adapts that butts the farm because I
48:15 | don't think there is two perimeters
48:16 | there. What do you mean by that? There's
48:18 | 100 ft and that's it.
48:19 | The video did a good job scooting over
48:21 | the farm park cuz it's only left where
48:22 | it isn't.
48:23 | Well, we were we just we're just looking
48:25 | at our property.
48:26 | Oh, are are you the my Okay. I've got a
48:29 | question for you.
48:30 | Okay.
48:36 | Okay. See where the cars are parked now?
48:38 | That's where we're coming for the permit
48:39 | tonight. See
48:40 | this area?
48:41 | See west of this. See the trees?
48:46 | all those trees and then there's another
48:49 | cleared area. But this [clears throat]
48:52 | So is this the lot for apple? Is this
48:54 | Yeah, this is the apple lot.
48:55 | This is this is just I just want to this
49:00 | one or the other.
49:01 | Yeah. So you got that barrier of trees
49:03 | that goes all the way up to I keep
49:05 | saying MCI Verizon.
49:07 | This is the agricultural here. Mhm.
49:10 | Zone change right there.
49:11 | The zone change is here. We're over
49:13 | here.
49:13 | Right. Right. Right.
49:16 | Correct.
49:18 | You want to keep
49:23 | stop?
49:25 | Somebody had mentioned they wanted to
49:26 | stop.
49:28 | Just keep going cuz it's it's the
49:30 | Okay. See all those trees?
49:32 | All right.
49:34 | Tell me when
49:37 | you need to get up.
49:38 | Okay. Okay. So, there's the uh
49:41 | [clears throat] building. Yeah.
49:43 | This is probably 100 ft of trees between
49:46 | there.
49:48 | See the trees here?
49:51 | They uh there's where we're going south.
49:54 | There's Route 20.
49:55 | You're going to turn.
49:56 | Keep going.
49:57 | And then if you go over here.
50:03 | So in this section here, there's no
50:05 | intention to do anything different than
50:07 | what you have here. This is not part of
50:08 | the application. Only
50:11 | the application is
50:13 | going up to NCI.
50:15 | Okay.
50:16 | Oh, so your application has nothing to
50:17 | do with this section here.
50:18 | N 10 acres.
50:20 | No.
50:20 | No.
50:21 | This whole area down here.
50:23 | That's for the next 50 years.
50:25 | When we get water, we'll be there.
50:27 | Can you stop right there?
50:29 | Is that the farm on the left?
50:30 | Yeah, that's our farm on the left
50:31 | corner, but it goes all the way. That's
50:33 | the northern and the western border.
50:35 | Yes. We're here. You're really talking
50:37 | about that property that's up in the
50:38 | upper right hand corner from left.
50:41 | Yep. So I'm saying
50:43 | the property
50:44 | I'm talking about the part that's
50:44 | already been done essentially the
50:46 | gravel.
50:46 | Yeah.
50:48 | So why did they why did they clear all
50:49 | this then?
50:50 | Because
50:51 | over the last two years.
50:52 | Why is that?
50:53 | How come this was all cleared then?
50:54 | I know they you know what the guy the
50:56 | the guy that did the clearing for me I
50:58 | think he wanted some longer.
51:02 | All right. So
51:03 | that makes it right. Huh? Well, no, but
51:05 | I mean you know that you know you're not
51:08 | around your property though and you
51:10 | don't know why he did it. It's your
51:11 | property but you don't know why somebody
51:13 | did it.
51:13 | No, someone else said I
51:15 | Okay, but your property
51:18 | you're you're pushing all these
51:19 | predators onto my
51:20 | Okay. Well, okay. Can I ask you a
51:22 | question? I know. I want to respect your
51:24 | rights, right?
51:25 | It [snorts] doesn't seem like
51:26 | Can you tell me why you put a drain onto
51:29 | my property? I believe the stone wall.
51:31 | There's a green pipe, but one foot pipe,
51:34 | a green pipe under your our dividing
51:37 | wall.
51:38 | I didn't do it.
51:38 | Well, maybe the previous person did.
51:40 | Okay. I apologize. I mean, I I'll
51:42 | address it if it needs to be addressed,
51:43 | but I didn't do it.
51:44 | Okay. Well, see, I didn't. No,
51:47 | but I mean this your your buffer is
51:49 | still there. We left. There's a
51:52 | The buffer is there, but not if you're
51:54 | putting 600 because there was a lease. I
51:56 | saw
51:58 | that they were trying to lease the land.
51:59 | I saw a listing.
52:00 | That's correct. Sorry.
52:01 | Last year.
52:02 | Yeah.
52:03 | So,
52:04 | so that's why I'm concerned.
52:07 | The focus again.
52:10 | I'm not trying to come to anybody.
52:12 | You're allowed to do whatever you want
52:13 | with your land. I just want to be
52:14 | protected.
52:16 | So, the application before us is part
52:18 | part of the 102 acres that is owned by
52:21 | the applicant. We're proposing 10 acres
52:24 | here. That's already been cleared. You
52:26 | kind of went through the history of um
52:28 | some of the layown areas.
52:30 | So these are just existing conditions.
52:32 | But
52:34 | I'm going to flip over.
52:37 | This was that driveway where that
52:39 | currently is being utilized with the
52:41 | vehicles. And just continuing that
52:46 | that pattern tiered up one level here, a
52:50 | second level,
52:52 | a third, and a fourth. Working within
52:54 | that. Okay.
52:55 | I'm going to ask you to move that to the
52:57 | film back just so the we can still shot
53:00 | to show the area of this parcel that's
53:03 | actually under consideration. We're
53:05 | proposing
53:06 | um
53:08 | right there. That's great. So, what he
53:10 | was what Mike was just M was just saying
53:13 | is this area right here and where those
53:15 | cars are, you can see that this area
53:18 | right here north of that are two
53:22 | plateaued proposed additional
53:25 | storage areas which are those areas
53:28 | here. They're located um at the furthest
53:33 | eastern extent of the property before
53:35 | you reach the budding properties and as
53:37 | far away from the farm as possible. And
53:40 | all of those trees that you see now on
53:42 | the video on the image, those are
53:45 | staying there. That vegetative buffer
53:47 | that's shown is stayed. So there's no
53:51 | additional proposal for um alteration of
53:55 | that area. It is the area that you see
53:57 | cleared going to be um converted into
54:02 | pocket facil pocket storage facilities
54:04 | that you see consistent with the with
54:07 | this area right there. You can see in
54:09 | the there's overburden piles and there's
54:12 | going to be those are going to be
54:14 | removed. So there's going to be
54:14 | alteration along that tree line and the
54:16 | implementation of storm water
54:18 | storm water management. So
54:20 | and and the property is going to be
54:22 | continued as it is a gravel surface. Um
54:25 | the intent is to do country drainage
54:28 | with swailes directing water to 74 bays
54:32 | and to infiltration areas prior to
54:34 | discharging into into the wetland areas.
54:36 | Subsequent to this proceeding, we also
54:39 | need to go before the conservation
54:41 | commission as we're within the
54:43 | jurisdiction of wild protection act. So
54:46 | that that's another process that uh we
54:49 | need to go through. But they requested
54:51 | that we come to this board first because
54:53 | this is a special permit for this land
54:55 | use. So let's get special use first
54:59 | wrapped up. And because the planning
55:00 | board is the storm water
55:03 | authority
55:05 | for the for your bylaws.
55:07 | So how many acres is this again?
55:10 | This is approximately 10 acres of the
55:12 | the land you see is approximately 10
55:14 | acres out of 102.
55:17 | Is it going to be landed?
55:19 | I know. So, this is this is not
55:22 | [clears throat]
55:22 | um as you might consider like a
55:24 | traditional parking lot. This is a
55:25 | storage facility. This is um storage for
55:29 | um new vehicles. Uh very limited
55:32 | activity coming in. They're looking at
55:34 | less than probably about 25 to 30 trips
55:37 | maximum day. Most of the vehicles come
55:39 | in by um carrier. Um some logs can come
55:44 | in if they they bring them in uh
55:45 | individually, but it's mostly carrier
55:48 | offloading storage out, you know, then
55:51 | they're moving them out as as needed.
55:53 | But [clears throat] you're probably
55:54 | looking at about 25 to 30 trips a day
55:58 | max.
55:58 | Is that what is happening there right
56:00 | now? Cuz I didn't even know.
56:02 | Yeah.
56:05 | New vehicles or
56:06 | they're new vehicles.
56:07 | Brand new.
56:08 | Everybody here flex car. They're owned
56:11 | by Avis. Yeah.
56:12 | So instead of um this is what people in
56:14 | the automotive business tells me. People
56:17 | buy a car and they get eight years to
56:19 | pay for it. Well, it wears out in five.
56:22 | So now here's you can rent a car by the
56:24 | month. They take care of the service,
56:26 | the tires and all that. Let's say you
56:29 | got an $800 a month car because you get
56:30 | a good job, you lose your job, come back
56:32 | next month, get one for 350. So they
56:35 | have a So that's why they have to have
56:37 | so many cars. They have their showroom
56:41 | is in Auburn. If you go over 395, the
56:44 | first of the automobile that is
56:46 | flexible.
56:47 | There'll be no building proposed.
56:49 | There's no building, no employees really
56:51 | here. Uh or minimal employees if there
56:54 | are, you know, employees, but it's a um
56:57 | it's really just a storage facility for
56:59 | that. Um so,
57:01 | excuse [clears throat] me for cars.
57:04 | I'll open up to the public when it hits
57:06 | the board and then I'll open up I mean,
57:09 | there may be trucks, you know, but it's
57:11 | it's it's a it's a vehicle storage, you
57:13 | know, facility, freight, but they're
57:15 | they're considered freight because it's
57:18 | um you know, it's not it's coming in
57:20 | bulk uh and going out in bulk. Um
57:23 | there's no repairs there. There's no
57:25 | garage, you know, no service
57:28 | maintenance. There's, you know, they're
57:29 | not uh doing any repair work on the
57:32 | vehicles. They come in, stock them off,
57:34 | move them out as needed. Um that's what
57:37 | the the application proposes. Um the uh
57:42 | it's it's a relatively benign use
57:44 | because there's as I said there's no um
57:48 | no no buildings, no employees, no you
57:52 | know no demand on municipal services. Uh
57:55 | and you know it's generating 25 30 trips
58:00 | a day. Um, even with that, the total
58:04 | number of vehicles that's contemplated
58:06 | is about 350 to 400 tops. So, that's
58:10 | what they're looking at. I think I had
58:12 | read something they were talking about
58:14 | 695.
58:16 | That's the Yeah, the geometric how much
58:17 | area physically fit per your parking
58:21 | requirements.
58:22 | But practically speaking, you're looking
58:24 | at less than uh 400 vehicles um in
58:27 | storage there. Uh, vehicles are going to
58:29 | be registered. So, uh, that's there's
58:32 | not an issue with, you know, unsightly
58:34 | and they're all new. And Ian, as you can
58:37 | see by the video, it's pretty far north
58:41 | of one of Route 20. It's not, you know,
58:43 | right down on the road. Um, it's it's
58:46 | not going to have a lot of traffic and
58:47 | not have a lot of visibility. It's
58:49 | located away and plateaued um and um
58:53 | surrounded by vegetation except what has
58:57 | to be altered for uh storm water
58:59 | management.
59:01 | So you're saying there'd be absolutely
59:03 | no working around any of these vehicles
59:05 | at that location?
59:07 | No, no working, no working.
59:09 | I mean, even down to, you know, the
59:12 | smallest repair or something. They had
59:14 | that shop in Auburn to do all that.
59:16 | Yeah. Well, I'm just trying to clarify
59:20 | trying to clarify.
59:21 | This is not um no repeal work. Um I mean
59:25 | I I would imagine they brushed the snow
59:27 | off the cars if it's you know went there
59:29 | and they got to get them out um or they
59:31 | may do that in but I you know I suspect
59:34 | that that's what they do but no no
59:36 | repair work no maintenance no oil
59:39 | changes uh no facilities proposed for
59:42 | that. They don't want to do that there.
59:44 | This is uh this is really a storage
59:47 | facility for those vehicles.
59:48 | So, you're saying if the thing had a
59:50 | flat tire or something like that, it' be
59:51 | towed out and fixed in Auburn and
59:54 | brought back to there if it was needed.
59:55 | That's correct. Yes. Yeah.
59:57 | All right.
59:59 | What's the How long do they stay here?
1:00:02 | Not the number of trips, but I mean, how
1:00:04 | long would that car stay
1:00:05 | one particular car? It's it's
1:00:07 | it's really hard to say to be honest
1:00:09 | with you. I mean, every car is
1:00:10 | different, you know.
1:00:11 | Yeah.
1:00:12 | They're plated from different states
1:00:14 | also. So,
1:00:15 | Right. So then they're registered where
1:00:18 | who's what is the excise town? Excise
1:00:21 | tax town.
1:00:22 | It's going to it's just it varies
1:00:25 | because they're from all over the
1:00:27 | country.
1:00:28 | Correct.
1:00:30 | And who's the owner of the vehicle?
1:00:32 | I mean the technical owner would be Flex
1:00:35 | Car.
1:00:35 | Flex Car. Exactly.
1:00:36 | And where are they headquartered?
1:00:38 | Um I believe they're out of Florida.
1:00:41 | Yeah.
1:00:44 | [clears throat]
1:00:47 | Now, are all these vehicles registered
1:00:49 | right now?
1:00:50 | Oh, yeah. Registered.
1:00:53 | You don't pay if you're leasing, you
1:00:55 | don't have an insurance bill. You don't
1:00:57 | have maintenance. And that's why it's a
1:00:59 | popular and Herz is going into the same
1:01:01 | business.
1:01:04 | And none of these are EVs that you're
1:01:06 | saying.
1:01:07 | That's a good question. No, we don't
1:01:09 | have any set up for that. Um, doesn't
1:01:12 | look like we would be
1:01:14 | Mhm.
1:01:16 | Cuz then we need power.
1:01:21 | I'll say that it's going to be accessed
1:01:24 | by the existing system of roadway. So
1:01:26 | we're not proposing any new, you know,
1:01:28 | roadway design inside. It's all the, you
1:01:31 | know, just building out on existing
1:01:34 | infrastructure.
1:01:38 | Now, do you like have a storage trail or
1:01:40 | an office here? anything for the
1:01:41 | employees that you have yet?
1:01:43 | We we don't. I mean, there might be like
1:01:44 | a 20 or 40 foot storage container that
1:01:46 | would have like um shovels and like
1:01:49 | miscellaneous stuff like that, you know.
1:01:52 | So, you have no employees
1:01:54 | [clears throat] on the property at all?
1:01:55 | No.
1:01:56 | Employees on the property? No.
1:01:58 | Well, only when they come to get the
1:02:00 | car.
1:02:00 | Yeah. Pick up, drop off,
1:02:03 | check in.
1:02:07 | Um and what's the surface material?
1:02:10 | gravel. Just grab
1:02:13 | and that's who owns the cars right now.
1:02:16 | These are flex our cars right now
1:02:19 | in there. Yeah.
1:02:21 | Now, do you have any sanitary facilities
1:02:24 | there for the people coming in and out
1:02:26 | that big?
1:02:27 | We do. We have a porta body
1:02:28 | port. Yeah.
1:02:29 | Yeah. A couple
1:02:37 | in like 5 minutes.
1:02:40 | are pretty uh ephemeral.
1:02:47 | Open up some questions to the public
1:02:49 | questions from the public.
1:02:54 | [clears throat]
1:02:54 | Was this uh has there any work been done
1:02:56 | on that property so far?
1:02:59 | It it's cleared as you can see. I mean,
1:03:01 | this is what what you're seeing is
1:03:03 | current condition.
1:03:04 | Did you have permits to do that at that
1:03:06 | time? No, we we we we're in the um we
1:03:10 | crossed six feet into the buffer zone.
1:03:11 | We're going to cease and desist and then
1:03:13 | because of the new um storm water
1:03:16 | management law, the EPA came up. They
1:03:19 | walked the wholeund and some odd acres
1:03:21 | with us and they said, "Why don't you
1:03:24 | just finish rip wrapping the slope?" So
1:03:26 | we started that and we got even though
1:03:28 | the EPA and the two women that came out
1:03:31 | were both uh civil engineers they told
1:03:34 | us what to do and then the conservation
1:03:37 | commission stopped us. So after we go
1:03:39 | through storm water management go back
1:03:41 | to conservation and then we can finish
1:03:43 | it.
1:03:44 | Okay.
1:03:45 | I mean it's there are a number of
1:03:48 | permits for any project. You have to get
1:03:50 | on that carousel at some place and the
1:03:53 | most logical place to get on is on it.
1:03:55 | If there if it's not permitted, you
1:03:57 | don't get it. It doesn't do much good
1:04:00 | getting uh concom. So, you come here
1:04:02 | first, get your blessing, you know, and
1:04:06 | uh advance to the next stage.
1:04:13 | Any additional questions? Well, how can
1:04:15 | we pass or or say okay if he's already
1:04:17 | in violation?
1:04:19 | We're not in violation of of zoning.
1:04:21 | Shut down.
1:04:22 | Not by zoning. So, we we're in front of
1:04:25 | this board because it's a zoning issue,
1:04:27 | then we go before the concommen
1:04:30 | will deal with it
1:04:31 | and and planning board deals with storm
1:04:33 | water management. So when the planning
1:04:35 | board okays storm water management then
1:04:38 | we go to conservation
1:04:41 | and uh and chair if I may the uh media
1:04:44 | segment this is in violation. This is
1:04:46 | done without a permit but this meeting
1:04:48 | would be the path to remedying that. So
1:04:52 | that's why we're here tonight.
1:04:54 | Thank you.
1:04:57 | Good. Can I just ask when did the
1:05:00 | proposed So I I'm not I it seems like
1:05:04 | I'm a little off base here because what
1:05:06 | my thought was what was where this
1:05:08 | proposal was going was directly behind
1:05:11 | my clock. Um and the reason being is
1:05:13 | because last September there was a a
1:05:15 | listing on Loopnet for Apple Realy um
1:05:21 | proposing uh parking long-term tractor
1:05:24 | trailer storage parking. So that's where
1:05:26 | I'm coming from. And then clearly they
1:05:28 | started clearing the land. So that's my
1:05:30 | assumption of what was going on. So
1:05:32 | clearly something changed. Um when did
1:05:35 | that happen and what changed? Cuz that
1:05:39 | land was fully wooded and I know there
1:05:42 | was a a drainage what's the swale thing
1:05:46 | water catchment system that was directly
1:05:48 | behind the stone wall that's now gone.
1:05:51 | So behind which stone wall?
1:05:53 | Behind the corner of my cow field. There
1:05:55 | was a water cachment basin thing there.
1:05:58 | Well, we didn't put it there.
1:06:01 | Right behind your house. Right beside
1:06:02 | your line, your property line
1:06:04 | on the north side of the bar. Correct.
1:06:07 | How many feet from your line? I'm not
1:06:10 | sure where she's to the chair. We can
1:06:12 | identify which property is not 50 or so
1:06:16 | feet from it.
1:06:17 | Yeah, [clears throat] it was 50 ft.
1:06:19 | So, that's that's not this property that
1:06:20 | we're talking about tonight, though.
1:06:21 | What's that? Well, it's always that's
1:06:23 | what I was 102 acres. Same property.
1:06:26 | It's the same property. He's leasing a
1:06:27 | portion of the property. Internal
1:06:29 | internal
1:06:31 | was it was 102 acres and this was being
1:06:34 | cleared behind my house. So, I assumed
1:06:36 | it was going
1:06:37 | and this overlaps over three parcels
1:06:38 | actually to get into the there's three
1:06:40 | separate parcels. So, the application
1:06:42 | includes all of it because it's all
1:06:44 | under the
1:06:45 | but the earth what I'm saying is the
1:06:46 | earth was moved on this property all
1:06:50 | behind my farm.
1:06:51 | The land was moved. There wasn't trees
1:06:53 | weren't just knocked down. Earth was
1:06:55 | moved.
1:06:55 | No, no. Where we are? How far away are
1:06:57 | we from? How far is this?
1:07:00 | You're right. We're definitely not
1:07:01 | talking about that. She's talking to the
1:07:04 | left of this that is over there.
1:07:07 | Wait, we're not talking.
1:07:08 | Yeah, I'm not sure where what is this.
1:07:11 | Um,
1:07:12 | I mean I
1:07:13 | go ahead. if the only because we'd like
1:07:17 | to go home before midnight. This is
1:07:20 | really um the uh just off talking. Um um
1:07:25 | um I'm sure Mr. Patty will, you know,
1:07:27 | have a conversation after he's he's that
1:07:30 | kind of person. But we have to kind of
1:07:32 | focus the the this hearing to this
1:07:36 | sure property.
1:07:36 | I mean, it's still a bust my property.
1:07:38 | So, but it's it's far enough away where
1:07:40 | I don't really have a problem with it at
1:07:43 | all. Okay.
1:07:44 | Um the way as it stands I really don't I
1:07:47 | mean but again I was just confused
1:07:49 | because it was listed as that parcel and
1:07:52 | that's the one that was cleared and all
1:07:54 | the work was going on and all the
1:07:55 | clearing which is affecting
1:07:58 | and my property.
1:07:59 | Yeah. It's part of the whole 100 some
1:08:01 | odd
1:08:02 | you know.
1:08:03 | Sure.
1:08:04 | You know originally we had about 170
1:08:06 | acres and then we sold the piece to what
1:08:09 | was NMZI when they went bankrupt. That's
1:08:11 | for
1:08:11 | No, I have no problem with this. So, do
1:08:13 | you want to follow?
1:08:15 | This is probably the the easiest use
1:08:17 | that you could possibly
1:08:19 | far enough away
1:08:20 | and there's not even any light.
1:08:21 | No, again, she's she reinforced we're
1:08:24 | actually not here for this. We thought
1:08:25 | we were here for the part that was
1:08:26 | cleared this year, which is to the left
1:08:28 | of this
1:08:29 | and if there is and if there is
1:08:31 | activity, you will get a notification.
1:08:33 | I didn't though.
1:08:34 | This has been going on for two years.
1:08:38 | There's nothing being built on there
1:08:40 | yet. So,
1:08:42 | clearing if that makes sense.
1:08:44 | So if I may well I mean I I would say it
1:08:46 | it it's a valid concern just because
1:08:49 | this project had gone on to this point
1:08:52 | without any permits. Um and it was
1:08:55 | Concom who issued a cease and desist
1:08:57 | that kind of brought this all to light
1:08:59 | that none of this project had been
1:09:01 | permitted which now the applicant is is
1:09:02 | here today for for that permitting. But
1:09:05 | then that same concern that there's
1:09:07 | another area that's being cleared that
1:09:09 | no permits have been sought for. I can
1:09:12 | definitely see a concern of being back
1:09:15 | here in a year or two asking for
1:09:17 | forgiveness again once a business has
1:09:19 | already been established there. So
1:09:22 | something I could do as part of this
1:09:23 | project is condition this that that area
1:09:27 | specifically nothing is going to be done
1:09:30 | over there. And then if you did want to
1:09:32 | modify that, that would require
1:09:33 | communist board saying, "Hey, we are
1:09:35 | looking to use that section of the
1:09:38 | property for whatever that use may be.
1:09:41 | So if everyone's okay with that, that's
1:09:44 | requires our oversight."
1:09:46 | Correct. Just saying.
1:09:49 | What's already there, if that's all
1:09:50 | going to stay there, no tractor, no no
1:09:52 | uses shall go on there other than what's
1:09:54 | currently
1:09:55 | that big hill, right,
1:09:57 | would have to come before you for storm
1:09:59 | water management. So everybody have a
1:10:01 | shot at us again. Okay.
1:10:03 | So So that'd be okay, right? Because you
1:10:05 | said that's a 50-year project. So
1:10:08 | hey, listen. I bought the property in
1:10:10 | 1985
1:10:11 | and I've
1:10:13 | I would if if I didn't own this all the
1:10:16 | other property that I bought over the
1:10:18 | years. Um, and I didn't I didn't I
1:10:21 | wasn't born with a silver, but I mean,
1:10:24 | um, for example, I had the I own the 90
1:10:28 | acres where the water towers are, right?
1:10:31 | I've had three big projects proposed and
1:10:35 | uh, like remember the shopping center
1:10:37 | with the supermarket and the Lowe's two,
1:10:40 | the bottom fell out in 2008.
1:10:43 | Sure.
1:10:43 | And here I'm still still sitting on
1:10:46 | that. Okay. And that's the way the
1:10:48 | business is. But I luckily and then when
1:10:50 | uh IPG futonics came uh we didn't have
1:10:56 | the we were still fighting with
1:10:58 | Selfridge for water for the 90 acres of
1:11:00 | the water towers. So I put them on
1:11:03 | luckily I own 100 acres in Boxford and I
1:11:07 | put them there.
1:11:08 | Yeah. Now we're absolutely well known
1:11:10 | that you own a lot of land but I don't
1:11:12 | think that was a question. just, you
1:11:14 | know, if you would agree what he said,
1:11:15 | then I think everyone would go happy and
1:11:17 | you'd get the permit again.
1:11:18 | I agree.
1:11:19 | And why don't we do this? Seemed
1:11:20 | probably the previous owner put that
1:11:22 | pipe in my land. I'll come see you and
1:11:24 | I'll give you an easement
1:11:26 | just so just so in good faith,
1:11:30 | right?
1:11:30 | Where is the pipe?
1:11:31 | Yeah.
1:11:33 | [laughter]
1:11:34 | Where?
1:11:35 | My my uh my
1:11:38 | We can talk later. It's fine. Yeah, they
1:11:40 | want to finish this. I respect that.
1:11:42 | So, this is the area.
1:11:43 | though.
1:11:44 | Yeah.
1:11:46 | Thank you. [clears throat]
1:11:48 | That Thank you for coming.
1:11:50 | Yeah, that that spot.
1:11:53 | That's the condition that they're
1:11:55 | referring to.
1:11:57 | That was only wooded two years ago.
1:11:59 | Yep.
1:12:00 | No problem.
1:12:00 | So, that's basically what we're hoping
1:12:02 | to accomplish. That's why we're here
1:12:04 | tonight. Um
1:12:06 | happy to address any issues or there's
1:12:08 | engineering or project issues. So
1:12:10 | there's there's a uh engineering
1:12:12 | [clears throat] letter from from Graves
1:12:15 | for peer review.
1:12:16 | Correct. And we're we're in process um
1:12:20 | addressing that primarily
1:12:22 | um clarification. I believe they weren't
1:12:25 | uh they didn't have the project name or
1:12:27 | misplaced it and like where's the build?
1:12:29 | Is there any buildings? They were
1:12:30 | confused as to the scope of what they're
1:12:32 | looking at and and they just wanted
1:12:34 | clarification with some of the labeling
1:12:36 | that's clear. um following labeling as
1:12:40 | far as
1:12:42 | storm water basins and and such and
1:12:45 | basically plan cleanup. Okay. And just
1:12:47 | for clarification purposes,
1:12:49 | is this something that can be cleaned up
1:12:50 | in the next couple of weeks?
1:12:51 | Yeah, we're we're in process.
1:12:53 | We need this to the 21st.
1:12:54 | Yeah, we're in process right now. That's
1:12:56 | actually I was working on
1:12:57 | there's enough outstanding I don't think
1:12:58 | the board would be comfortable
1:13:00 | conditioning.
1:13:01 | I mean we can get this yet. Yes, I we
1:13:04 | can
1:13:04 | it all seems like little things, but
1:13:06 | there's a lot of little things
1:13:08 | and I and a lot of them what I was
1:13:09 | reading through is misinterpretation or
1:13:12 | not having a clarity of what
1:13:15 | the applicant's proposing.
1:13:18 | Okay.
1:13:18 | And Madam Chair, I know we had the fire
1:13:20 | chief had uh some concern.
1:13:22 | Hi, how are you? Um what's the width of
1:13:26 | the travel lanes?
1:13:28 | 24 ft.
1:13:29 | Okay. in the the radius terms. Do we
1:13:33 | know
1:13:34 | are we gonna for the fire apparatus?
1:13:36 | Yeah, we we're going to do swift paths.
1:13:38 | We're gonna that's part of the what
1:13:39 | we're going to include in
1:13:40 | Okay. for the current parking lot and
1:13:43 | the proposed.
1:13:44 | Correct.
1:13:44 | Okay.
1:13:45 | Yeah. So, that that has that's also
1:13:47 | being worked on right now.
1:13:49 | Okay. As long as that is adequate,
1:13:51 | that's all I care about because there's
1:13:54 | a lot of cars there and
1:13:55 | you want to be able to get in and out
1:13:57 | just as the trucks
1:13:58 | for you guys
1:13:59 | for you guys. You know,
1:14:01 | one one car ignites and we can't get our
1:14:04 | apparatus there. It's a lot of cars are
1:14:07 | going to catch so
1:14:09 | and be able to get in
1:14:10 | be willing to change the radiuses to fit
1:14:12 | their
1:14:13 | I think it's it's flexible. Again, it's
1:14:15 | not marked spaces so things can be
1:14:17 | easily moved. I don't have any.
1:14:19 | Well, they can be easily moved, but
1:14:20 | unfortunately, if they can be easily
1:14:22 | moved, then they can
1:14:23 | be easily blocked.
1:14:24 | be easily blocked. So, we have to come
1:14:26 | up with a way in order for them not to
1:14:29 | be blocked. So, that way
1:14:31 | in the event that we have to get our
1:14:33 | apparatus there, the lanes are always
1:14:35 | remain open so that way the trucks can
1:14:38 | come in. So, so however you guys figure
1:14:40 | that out, that's for you guys to figure
1:14:42 | out um that they can be somehow easily
1:14:46 | marked so that way they don't get
1:14:47 | blocked and the apparatus can come and
1:14:50 | make the turns. And we can give you the
1:14:52 | turning uh radiuses of our uh of our
1:14:54 | engine. And we don't necessarily care
1:14:56 | about the ladder truck in this uh type
1:14:58 | of situation, but more of our engines to
1:15:00 | be able to come in
1:15:01 | um and make it. That's something that
1:15:03 | the applicant can we can talk to is a
1:15:06 | movable
1:15:08 | cones or some sort of barrels or
1:15:10 | something that can be easily
1:15:13 | marked off your apartment.
1:15:15 | Any sort of gate to get in? Is it um
1:15:19 | locked gate to get to or is it
1:15:21 | We would like to put a gate up so we're
1:15:23 | not having you know so we can keep
1:15:25 | anybody Yeah.
1:15:25 | We'll make sure that the fire department
1:15:27 | gets uh access to that.
1:15:29 | We do that. Yeah.
1:15:30 | Whatever that is.
1:15:31 | Yes. Is it on the plans?
1:15:33 | I I have not.
1:15:34 | Okay. So, that's something we can
1:15:36 | That will need to be on the plans too if
1:15:38 | it's something that's going to be in the
1:15:39 | budget.
1:15:41 | Gate in the lock box.
1:15:42 | EAS box. Yeah.
1:15:46 | Make a motion to continue this hearing
1:15:48 | for October 21 for Apple. Excuse me.
1:15:54 | Second.
1:15:56 | All in favor? I subject.
1:16:04 | Thank you.
1:16:06 | Thank you.
1:16:07 | Thank you so much.
1:16:13 | So, we've continued.
1:16:15 | Sorry.
1:16:18 | Thank you folks. Have a great day.
1:16:24 | Thanks.
1:16:37 | My dad was one of one.
1:16:52 | Yeah. Yeah. Emily's are back.
1:16:57 | Welcome back.
1:17:10 | Yep. This one might not take that long
1:17:13 | because we're not allowed to modify it.
1:17:15 | Okay.
1:17:17 | Mostly a recommener, don't they?
1:17:20 | things for us.
1:17:23 | In accordance with MGL 4A um and 2125
1:17:28 | zoning bylaw, the child will be public
1:17:31 | hearing on Wednesday, October 7, 2026 in
1:17:34 | the planning office
1:17:37 | building. Um
1:17:42 | on the following proposed amendments to
1:17:44 | the child and zoning bylaw sponsored by
1:17:47 | the plain board for town meeting. Um,
1:17:50 | amend 202.1 uses instructions to add a
1:17:53 | definition of data center. Um, two,
1:17:57 | amend 203.2B,
1:17:59 | use regulation schedule to add new uses
1:18:02 | um data centers as not allowed in all
1:18:05 | zoning districts. And three, add a new
1:18:07 | 200
1:18:10 | 5.23 data centers establishing an
1:18:13 | interim prohibition of data centers and
1:18:16 | direct employment. studied the use and
1:18:19 | report its findings in any proposed
1:18:21 | regulations. The town meeting no later
1:18:22 | than 2028 annual town meeting following
1:18:26 | the hearing of will vote on its
1:18:27 | recommendations. The town meeting as to
1:18:29 | whether the proposed amendment should be
1:18:31 | adopted.
1:18:33 | All right. Uh I will go ahead and
1:18:35 | introduce this. Uh we last talked about
1:18:38 | data centers. You folks asked if I could
1:18:40 | put something together in time for the
1:18:41 | warrant. I was able to get something
1:18:43 | together uh which you have here before
1:18:45 | you. But given just the nature of the
1:18:47 | timeline to get the advertisements out
1:18:49 | uh ahead of town meeting uh it is now
1:18:53 | stands as is on the warrant articles. Um
1:18:56 | so I'll just kind of briefly run through
1:18:59 | uh it's essentially as you know the
1:19:01 | adding the definition of the data
1:19:03 | center. Um one of the issues I could see
1:19:06 | there was that without a definition of
1:19:08 | the closest use which in our case I
1:19:10 | believe would have been just heavy
1:19:12 | industrial. Um so this clearly states
1:19:15 | what a data center is. It makes an
1:19:17 | exception for you know a subsidiary use
1:19:21 | like we have a data center here in town
1:19:23 | hall but clearly not at the same scale.
1:19:26 | Um
1:19:27 | and so we define that we essentially say
1:19:31 | not allowed in all zones and then we
1:19:34 | actually create a uh portion here in the
1:19:39 | uh the bylaw 200-5-23
1:19:42 | data centers and again purpose is just
1:19:45 | saying that this is a moratorium it's
1:19:47 | not a ban um and the big one here is the
1:19:52 | what it is that we want to study and
1:19:54 | report before we actually modify the
1:19:57 | section. So, zoning districts, where we
1:19:59 | want to have them in town, electrical
1:20:01 | supply, just really making sure that we
1:20:03 | have all of that in order. We want to uh
1:20:06 | craft a bylaw making sure that meet
1:20:10 | certain criteria such as things like
1:20:12 | don't put um you know undue burden on
1:20:15 | the electrical system, water supply,
1:20:18 | noise, dimensional uh air quality, storm
1:20:22 | water traffic which not too concerned
1:20:24 | for the data center but always worth
1:20:26 | having in there as well. And then
1:20:27 | decommission is the big one. Fiscal
1:20:30 | impacts and consistency with the town of
1:20:33 | Charleston's master plan. Those are the
1:20:35 | big ones that we want to make sure that
1:20:36 | we have addressed between now and 2028.
1:20:39 | Then we can actually have how uh and
1:20:42 | where we would permit a data center. Uh
1:20:46 | we have plenty of time uh over the next
1:20:49 | year to look into that. My initial
1:20:51 | thought is probably going to be special
1:20:53 | permit rather than site plan approval,
1:20:54 | but we'll uh we'll be able to make um I
1:20:58 | think strong findings that would be need
1:21:00 | to be made. So that way if we were ever
1:21:03 | to permit a data center, if they want to
1:21:04 | come in with their own power, their own
1:21:06 | water, keeping it far back from
1:21:10 | everything, well screened as opposed to
1:21:12 | kind of just showing up saying we're
1:21:13 | putting this here and you folks are
1:21:14 | dealing with that.
1:21:16 | So I think there's enough information
1:21:17 | out there to help us along the way.
1:21:21 | I think that's 2008 is doable. And where
1:21:25 | did um the definition
1:21:28 | where did you get it from? I'm just
1:21:33 | um just putting it together. Yeah. Uh
1:21:37 | with uh Google searches and with help
1:21:39 | with AI, you know,
1:21:41 | other towns have done the same thing.
1:21:44 | Yeah. Excellent.
1:21:45 | We're not reinventing the wheel.
1:21:47 | Exactly. 25. I just didn't know if there
1:21:49 | was an official definition through the
1:21:51 | state yet
1:21:55 | four or five years. Wait till
1:21:58 | Yeah, I think one of the things we'll
1:21:59 | probably update the definition, but
1:22:01 | again, I was really putting something
1:22:02 | together for it was fine. I was just
1:22:04 | curious if you just if it was
1:22:07 | we didn't get any um little subdivisions
1:22:11 | in the last week, have we?
1:22:13 | No. No. I think
1:22:14 | remember that happened with the solar
1:22:16 | [laughter]
1:22:16 | Yeah. 10.
1:22:18 | Remember that's why Allan used to have
1:22:20 | an appointment. No dropping anything off
1:22:21 | once you have an appointment, you know.
1:22:23 | But no, they because of the uh it
1:22:25 | freezes
1:22:25 | exactly zoning. Yeah. So
1:22:27 | appointment00
1:22:37 | minimum.
1:22:41 | Um, I'll make a motion that the board
1:22:42 | recommends these um draft board articles
1:22:46 | for the time. Second,
1:22:50 | I
1:22:53 | we're all going to sit up front like the
1:22:55 | select men do, but like in the front row
1:22:58 | and then all take turns saying that I
1:23:00 | make a motion so we can be cool like
1:23:02 | them, right? [laughter] Everybody's
1:23:04 | planning that night off.
1:23:06 | Oh, absolutely.
1:23:12 | my whole master plan.
1:23:13 | Well, let's everybody else
1:23:16 | ask a question. Is that okay?
1:23:19 | Dylan Michelle Chmer, how are you?
1:23:22 | Great to meet you, Michelle.
1:23:23 | Nice to meet you. And thank you.
1:23:25 | Obviously, I just wanted to say thank
1:23:26 | you for doing this. I know had reached
1:23:28 | out to you and asking you about um what
1:23:30 | was in place, what does the town have in
1:23:33 | place and obviously you worked very
1:23:35 | quickly to make sure that wait a second,
1:23:38 | somebody could come in here um and
1:23:40 | obviously have that um happen before you
1:23:44 | actually as a board and as a town for us
1:23:46 | to decide if this is actually what we
1:23:49 | even want in the community. And so I
1:23:52 | guess what I'm asking just as a
1:23:54 | clarification is that now that you have
1:23:58 | sort of highlighted these issues that
1:24:02 | could potentially
1:24:03 | um you know restrict someone from coming
1:24:06 | in saying they want a data center. um uh
1:24:12 | when let's say you know the vote comes
1:24:15 | on October 19th and these bylaws or the
1:24:18 | changes to the bylaws are accepted. What
1:24:21 | happens if someone does put in a request
1:24:24 | in that meantime? So because I think I
1:24:26 | heard you say it's not a moratorum but
1:24:29 | it does it
1:24:29 | it is a mortorium.
1:24:30 | It is a mortorium until 2028.
1:24:33 | Until 2028. Okay. So anybody putting in
1:24:38 | for a data center in the meantime before
1:24:41 | you all are able to review this and then
1:24:43 | 2028 happens then you would just sort of
1:24:48 | keep that I don't know what it's called
1:24:50 | the um
1:24:52 | the application
1:24:52 | the application
1:24:53 | so the application would be denied
1:24:54 | because we don't allow them okay
1:24:57 | they'd have to wait till we had rules
1:25:00 | so it is more than a majority it's the
1:25:03 | two sides right of the two/3
1:25:07 | of acceptance for at the meeting and um
1:25:10 | it has to also go through the state for
1:25:11 | approval. So they could
1:25:13 | they could actually deny it and say you
1:25:15 | can't
1:25:16 | um I'm not sure if the other towns or
1:25:20 | cities that did this it it went through
1:25:22 | the whole process. It takes sometimes a
1:25:23 | few months um to get
1:25:26 | to get the bylaws updated from legal
1:25:28 | review from the state. Absolutely. Um
1:25:30 | and so the town will be voting and
1:25:32 | twothirds of the town must vote
1:25:36 | in agreement with these three measures.
1:25:39 | Y
1:25:40 | okay and I know that the governor has
1:25:42 | already put a moratorium on data centers
1:25:45 | across the state unless the town agrees
1:25:49 | um that they want one. Um so I'm sure
1:25:52 | that the governor will will be in
1:25:56 | approval hopefully.
1:25:57 | The governor We're doing it. We're doing
1:25:59 | it now so that when the government
1:26:01 | changes their minds, whereas government,
1:26:04 | [laughter] we already have something in
1:26:05 | place.
1:26:05 | Already have something in place. Okay.
1:26:07 | All right. And then so let's say in
1:26:10 | 2028, you do your due diligence and you
1:26:14 | basically have uploaded, you know, or
1:26:16 | changed the bylaws and then someone does
1:26:19 | come in. Then what's that process in the
1:26:23 | sense if the community um will the
1:26:26 | community still have a say as to whether
1:26:29 | the data center is permitted or do these
1:26:32 | changes and bylaws somehow
1:26:35 | restrict us from a town being able to
1:26:38 | say that
1:26:39 | when we're ready to um you know we we do
1:26:41 | the research and we potentially um bring
1:26:44 | in our consulting attorney um look at
1:26:47 | look at other towns um I most likely um
1:26:51 | you know we need we need tax money and
1:26:54 | we need revenue. So it's not like we
1:26:56 | would go in there and say we're going to
1:26:57 | ban them unless unless there was a good
1:27:00 | enough reason to say we never ever want
1:27:02 | one of these. It could potentially be
1:27:03 | that with all the research. However, we
1:27:05 | may have hearing what's happening
1:27:07 | country very good um locations like you
1:27:11 | know any of the sort of like the heavy
1:27:13 | industrial areas where that where
1:27:15 | they're well um uh well you know well
1:27:20 | shaded from you know other like
1:27:22 | residences or anything else. Um just
1:27:24 | remember it's it is more than that
1:27:26 | though it's it's more of a business. We
1:27:28 | have to always balance with economic
1:27:30 | devel like we need to balance our tax
1:27:32 | money. Um do we want every people want
1:27:35 | the senior center people want you know
1:27:37 | recreation fields they want you know um
1:27:39 | etc etc we want things that better the
1:27:41 | community we need to balance that. So
1:27:44 | when we when we do this all this
1:27:46 | research when we look at the in and work
1:27:48 | not just our board but other boards
1:27:51 | sure the decisions made based on those
1:27:53 | kind of factors um you know not we can't
1:27:58 | have it because we don't like them or
1:27:59 | anything like that it's it's a well
1:28:02 | thought out uh potentially a committee
1:28:04 | is formed and and decisions are kind of
1:28:07 | made and then of course it goes to the
1:28:09 | town for a vote.
1:28:10 | So again it would go to a town meeting
1:28:11 | which would need a two-thirds vote to to
1:28:13 | approve. So the town would have to
1:28:14 | approve any regulations that we came up
1:28:17 | with.
1:28:17 | Okay. So that was my question. Thank
1:28:19 | you. Thank you. Appreciate it.
1:28:21 | You know, just I'll say that generally
1:28:23 | speaking, the state doesn't like when
1:28:26 | things are completely banned outright,
1:28:28 | but they give you a lot of flexibility
1:28:30 | in regulation. Like u I think adult
1:28:32 | entertainment is a good one. Most towns
1:28:34 | will usually put like something an
1:28:36 | overlay district and say outskirts of
1:28:38 | town where nobody's going to build one.
1:28:41 | go ahead and and put it out there and
1:28:43 | you can do something like that. So, you
1:28:45 | know, obviously nowhere in our village
1:28:46 | center will we ever want to see one, but
1:28:48 | outskirts, something like that. Very
1:28:50 | stringent regulations, has to be
1:28:52 | screened, can't be over a certain size,
1:28:54 | things like that where you can create
1:28:56 | where you can create a data center that
1:28:58 | might be uneconomical for a data center,
1:29:00 | but if somebody wanted to come in and do
1:29:02 | it, hey, we don't create on like a
1:29:05 | twoacre block.
1:29:07 | It is too bad for you. Yeah.
1:29:10 | And all sorts of other things which they
1:29:12 | currently probably aren't able to do.
1:29:14 | And so that might make us less desirable
1:29:16 | to
1:29:19 | for a while. And we had lawsuits for a
1:29:21 | short time.
1:29:22 | Um at town meeting it's happened where
1:29:24 | the
1:29:26 | attendees changed something that the
1:29:28 | board wrote voted on it.
1:29:30 | Yep.
1:29:30 | And then that got passed.
1:29:32 | Okay.
1:29:33 | So you could be at all the meetings and
1:29:35 | still disagree with something. And it
1:29:36 | happened to our solar where we were I
1:29:38 | think planning board was at 40 and
1:29:41 | residents got up and made it 30
1:29:44 | because they amended it at the time
1:29:46 | at the meeting. Amended it, handed it to
1:29:47 | him in writing and they changed it and
1:29:49 | Okay.
1:29:50 | And then the government changed it
1:29:51 | and and at the end of the day it really
1:29:53 | doesn't matter because the the we were
1:29:55 | overrode by the state and they said we
1:29:58 | cannot get if if
1:30:00 | the state wants it we we deal with it.
1:30:02 | So
1:30:03 | can't limit them anymore.
1:30:04 | Right. Yeah. the door.
1:30:06 | What would be your opinions on how to
1:30:09 | limit them? You have any good ideas
1:30:12 | on how to limit them?
1:30:13 | Yeah. Or prevent them?
1:30:17 | You know, it's I think it's
1:30:19 | [clears throat]
1:30:21 | very alarming to see what's happening
1:30:23 | over the country. I mean, there are some
1:30:25 | areas of this country, Ohio,
1:30:29 | that are covered with them.
1:30:32 | It is very alarming and and it's it's
1:30:35 | very um I think from an environmental
1:30:38 | standpoint especially, you know, I live
1:30:41 | on a property that has a well. I live on
1:30:44 | Prindle Pond.
1:30:46 | Um so I worry about the decontamination
1:30:51 | and and just whatever is happening from
1:30:53 | these data centers. It's sort of this
1:30:57 | technology is just happening so fast.
1:30:58 | Maybe I'm just old, but I'm just like,
1:31:00 | what is this and what are we doing and
1:31:03 | why are we doing it?
1:31:04 | And I just saw a recent um you know,
1:31:07 | congressional hearing where um people
1:31:10 | that understand about AI and how AI
1:31:13 | works that have been using this AI
1:31:16 | because AI has been around for many many
1:31:18 | years. They don't understand what the
1:31:20 | data centers are for
1:31:23 | because they have been able to use AI
1:31:26 | without data centers and been able to
1:31:29 | process massive amounts of of
1:31:31 | information. So I just think this
1:31:34 | moratorum is is a great idea not only
1:31:37 | because it gives you the time to sort of
1:31:40 | educate yourself but it also gives us a
1:31:43 | little bit of time to watch what's
1:31:45 | happening in the in the other parts of
1:31:47 | the country right because as the more
1:31:50 | and more of the these centers are built
1:31:53 | the large centers we're going to see
1:31:56 | more of really the truth of what is
1:31:59 | happening in Massachusetts we're just
1:32:02 | not a big state, you know,
1:32:04 | you want me to cut this all off only. We
1:32:06 | have our um we have our housing plan to
1:32:09 | discuss.
1:32:10 | Yes, of course. I just want to make sure
1:32:12 | that
1:32:12 | No, 100%. I support everything that
1:32:15 | you're doing. Thank you for this, Dylan.
1:32:17 | Thank you. I really appreciate that.
1:32:19 | So, and thank you for the question.
1:32:22 | In any time, um meetings are always
1:32:24 | open, but you can email any of us and
1:32:28 | you know, sometimes people learn about
1:32:30 | Yeah. new. I'll be following up.
1:32:32 | Absolutely.
1:32:32 | You can be on our AI
1:32:35 | [laughter]
1:32:37 | growing up.
1:32:38 | You want to stay and hang out with us,
1:32:40 | but we can hang out. [laughter]
1:32:45 | Thank you.
1:32:47 | Yeah, you too.
1:32:48 | You sure?
1:32:48 | Yep. Thank you.
1:32:49 | Thanks.
1:32:56 | You wanted a hard hard chair like
1:32:58 | [laughter]
1:33:00 | hard.
1:33:02 | Well, thanks for having us back. Um,
1:33:05 | Emily Globbitz, Emily Tibo from Central
1:33:07 | Mass Regional Planning Commission. Um,
1:33:10 | last time we were here, we um had
1:33:11 | presented an initial draft version of
1:33:13 | the housing production plan, which is a
1:33:15 | five-year uh state approved plan for um
1:33:18 | guiding kind of policy and decision
1:33:20 | making on all things housing for the the
1:33:23 | community. Um we've been working on it
1:33:25 | since last year um with a nice committee
1:33:28 | um and the town administrator as well um
1:33:30 | and the former town planner um uh before
1:33:34 | dealing with it and um yeah so uh we
1:33:39 | received your comments. We have
1:33:41 | incorporated them into the plan um uh
1:33:44 | sent out a version with the track
1:33:46 | changes on so you could see exactly what
1:33:47 | was changed from the previous plan. So,
1:33:49 | we just wanted to get feedback on if we
1:33:51 | kind of met your expectations for the
1:33:53 | changes. If there's anything else you
1:33:54 | wanted to bring up and discuss tonight
1:33:56 | while we're here, um ultimately, um we
1:33:59 | are looking for a vote of approval for
1:34:02 | the plan. Then we have to go to the
1:34:03 | select board and get their vote, um of
1:34:05 | approval, too, and present to them. And
1:34:08 | then, um it will be sent to the
1:34:11 | executive office of housing livable
1:34:13 | communities um for their staff to review
1:34:16 | the plan. um they have about a month or
1:34:18 | so to review it and get any feedback
1:34:19 | back um to us and um if everything looks
1:34:24 | good to them then it's signed off for um
1:34:26 | a 5year period. So um
1:34:29 | I appreciate your patience with my many
1:34:31 | comments and
1:34:32 | No, it's okay. I appreciate the
1:34:33 | comments. Absolutely.
1:34:35 | Somebody read it. No, I'm just
1:34:37 | How many of the towns in the area have
1:34:39 | already done one or have a plan on file?
1:34:41 | Do you know?
1:34:41 | Oh, good question. Um
1:34:44 | we work um with 40 communities. So out
1:34:47 | of those I would say at least you know
1:34:49 | maybe 12 or so between 12 15. Um we've
1:34:53 | done a lot of them. Um other towns have
1:34:55 | just kind of done them on their own. Um
1:34:57 | some communities uh are they're very
1:34:59 | diligent about updating it every 5 years
1:35:01 | just to make sure um they have kind of a
1:35:04 | a up-to-date policy in place. Um but
1:35:07 | yeah, we're we're encouraging our a lot
1:35:09 | of communities to
1:35:09 | Okay. And those metrics that are in the
1:35:12 | plan, if we don't meet those metrics, is
1:35:14 | there penalties for that or is it just
1:35:17 | something we update those metrics next
1:35:18 | time and say, "Hey, we'll try to do X."
1:35:21 | Do you mean the um like the affordable
1:35:22 | housing goals? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um
1:35:26 | until the community has met its 10%
1:35:28 | threshold, um it is vulnerable to um
1:35:30 | comprehensive permits um sought by
1:35:33 | developers. Um but you are it this does
1:35:35 | provide you a a way to um uh achieve
1:35:39 | like a safe harbor is what they're
1:35:41 | calling it for like a year or two years.
1:35:43 | Um if in the most recent year you have
1:35:46 | um developed a half% of the um total
1:35:50 | year round housing units and that half
1:35:53 | percent is affordable units.
1:35:55 | We need one. We added
1:36:00 | [laughter]
1:36:01 | it.
1:36:02 | We can have that int.
1:36:06 | That's amazing. We had one whenever I
1:36:08 | were just joking in the developer. No,
1:36:11 | I don't think we're joking. I was
1:36:12 | serious
1:36:14 | and they added one. I mean, it was only
1:36:16 | one, but for for a size one is
1:36:18 | it was 20% of the apartments.
1:36:21 | That's what I look at. 20% of the
1:36:22 | apartments. Um, so if if what was going
1:36:26 | with this question? Um, it's difficult
1:36:29 | to
1:36:30 | get somebody to designate it as
1:36:32 | affordable. Now, we have apartments in
1:36:34 | town that are affordable and within that
1:36:36 | rent range, but unless it's designated
1:36:39 | as affordable, it doesn't count.
1:36:41 | How do we get those units that are
1:36:43 | already in, you know, in in in service
1:36:46 | in town that
1:36:47 | that's a good question.
1:36:48 | Are at an affordable price for the
1:36:50 | community. make them
1:36:52 | to be counted count counted within those
1:36:54 | numbers,
1:36:55 | right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, because
1:36:56 | because the for it to count on the state
1:36:58 | subsidized housing inventory, it has to
1:37:00 | have a deed restriction saying
1:37:03 | that um households are not earning more
1:37:05 | than 80% of the area median income. So,
1:37:07 | I mean, there are ways I I can look up
1:37:10 | um if there's any communities who have
1:37:12 | maybe created some kind of program for
1:37:15 | for incentivizing landlords um because
1:37:17 | ultimately it's the landlords, they
1:37:18 | might be kind of losing out on that
1:37:20 | income. Yep. um sell later, right? Lead
1:37:24 | restriction would be hard. It would just
1:37:25 | be hard to I mean
1:37:27 | that that resale especially for small I
1:37:29 | mean I guess if you had um you know 30
1:37:32 | or 50 units that's a different sort of a
1:37:34 | story but it's hard when you have
1:37:36 | somebody renting their apartment over
1:37:39 | their garage.
1:37:40 | So without building large um multif
1:37:43 | family
1:37:45 | affordable buildings it's tough for any
1:37:48 | town to get to that number.
1:37:49 | It is. It is. How many are there? I
1:37:52 | thought I thought I read there was like
1:37:53 | six towns that actually like cities that
1:37:57 | hit that mark.
1:37:58 | Yeah, in our region um like the 40 towns
1:38:01 | surrounding Worcester, I think we have I
1:38:03 | think it's right that it's about five
1:38:04 | maybe six that have actually met that
1:38:07 | threshold.
1:38:07 | There are some towns too. It's not just
1:38:09 | cities but
1:38:10 | other
1:38:12 | towns.
1:38:13 | Um Berlin.
1:38:14 | Berlin has made it.
1:38:15 | Wow. trying to remember a lot of like
1:38:18 | kind of the burrows like 495 corridor um
1:38:22 | towns have met it um
1:38:23 | put like you know where they're where
1:38:25 | they're contemplating the senior center
1:38:26 | up there right um instead of doing a $14
1:38:29 | million senior center why don't we do a
1:38:32 | a 30 unit uh
1:38:36 | senior senior um senior living
1:38:38 | senior living facility
1:38:40 | you chief
1:38:42 | uh just some bag of napkin calculations
1:38:45 | I think If you're restricting because
1:38:47 | it's the median income in Charleton is
1:38:50 | $117,000
1:38:51 | annually. You have to be at 80% AMI and
1:38:55 | it's oneird of 80%
1:38:58 | housing authority could like and we're
1:39:00 | already saying so if you deed restricted
1:39:02 | at $230,000
1:39:06 | uh of rent for somebody making 80% then
1:39:08 | your capital A affordable. Uh but I
1:39:11 | think yeah we have a lot more lowercase
1:39:13 | A affordable in Charlton. I uh can't say
1:39:16 | I've seen anything
1:39:17 | uh even that high.
1:39:19 | It's the deed restriction that goes
1:39:20 | along with it. You're you're restricting
1:39:22 | the uh
1:39:23 | and that's what counts, right?
1:39:24 | And if they came in with a 40b like 20%
1:39:27 | would need to be affordable for so you
1:39:29 | could build a 40, you know, uh apartment
1:39:32 | building, 40un apartment building, and
1:39:34 | eight of them would would need to be
1:39:37 | deed restricted. The rest of them are
1:39:39 | all
1:39:39 | luckily if they are built under 4V all
1:39:42 | of those would count towards your SHI
1:39:44 | percentage even though
1:39:45 | Oh really? Oh even though only eight of
1:39:47 | them are
1:39:47 | even though eight of them are only
1:39:48 | affordable in terms of you getting to
1:39:50 | that 10%. It's a weird if it was built
1:39:53 | under 40B.
1:39:54 | So there so there we go. That's that
1:39:56 | that $14 million senior center thing
1:39:59 | that they're propo proposing right
1:40:00 | there. It's perfect location right
1:40:02 | across from the overlook and everything.
1:40:04 | I think maybe that deserves a motion on
1:40:06 | the floor. Yeah.
1:40:08 | Yeah. [laughter]
1:40:10 | All right. We're just spitballing here
1:40:12 | trying to get So
1:40:14 | I had a question that the little left
1:40:16 | field. I'm a big proponent of not
1:40:18 | reinventing wheels and I'm wondering how
1:40:20 | did Berlin do it? Do you ladies have any
1:40:22 | idea?
1:40:23 | They had a couple big projects come in.
1:40:25 | Yeah. Which I mean it kind of worked for
1:40:27 | them because they're they're primarily a
1:40:29 | you know farming community. a lot of
1:40:31 | like smaller homes and stuff, but um
1:40:33 | they just had a couple big projects um
1:40:35 | in one part of town and um they I mean
1:40:39 | their population also is so low so that
1:40:41 | it was easy. Yeah. The percentage was it
1:40:44 | was easy for them to kind of get up.
1:40:46 | They're at like 17% affordability now.
1:40:49 | Wow.
1:40:51 | Most of those are large buildings along
1:40:53 | Salman Pond area that is the medium
1:40:58 | price of a home in
1:40:59 | Oh, good. I mean, of probably at least
1:41:02 | half a million. [laughter]
1:41:03 | I was going to say cuz there's a lot of
1:41:05 | There's a lot of big houses.
1:41:06 | A lot of those farms that used to be
1:41:09 | found are now gentleman farms that are
1:41:11 | uh they have free pools, you know.
1:41:14 | [laughter]
1:41:15 | Um I also Berlin also just to use them
1:41:18 | as an example, they've also been working
1:41:19 | on other ways to make the community kind
1:41:21 | of more affordable, not just focusing on
1:41:23 | the SHI 10%. They've already achieved
1:41:25 | that, but um I worked with them on
1:41:27 | creating like a down payment assistance
1:41:28 | program. um to to get lower income
1:41:31 | families um who otherwise wouldn't be
1:41:33 | able to afford like the down payment for
1:41:35 | a house but could otherwise um afford
1:41:38 | like the mortgage and everything um just
1:41:40 | give them kind of that starting point to
1:41:42 | to purchase a house.
1:41:43 | I wonder how they get their revenue to
1:41:44 | be able to do things like that.
1:41:45 | They do a community
1:41:48 | preservation. Y
1:41:50 | I'm not sure we could get Charlton to do
1:41:52 | that. They don't pay any more money than
1:41:54 | I thought.
1:41:55 | Yeah. Yeah. That's a longterm maybe go
1:41:59 | [laughter]
1:41:59 | plan.
1:42:00 | Um, so I I I appreciate all the changes.
1:42:04 | Um, does anybody else have any
1:42:06 | questions? I would be happy with
1:42:07 | Nice work. Thanks for redlining it to
1:42:08 | make it easy. Yeah.
1:42:11 | Um,
1:42:12 | well, I can make a motion that we uh
1:42:14 | adopt and approve the housing plan that
1:42:17 | was drawn up from DRC.
1:42:21 | Make that motion.
1:42:22 | I second.
1:42:23 | All in favor?
1:42:23 | I I There you go.
1:42:25 | Thank you for your work on this. Thank
1:42:27 | you. Yeah, we'll be in touch. Um, I'll
1:42:28 | send out an email um once it all the
1:42:31 | steps are
1:42:33 | I guess I can use the red line, Jack,
1:42:34 | just because it's going to be useful for
1:42:36 | the master plan um committee to
1:42:39 | reference, but I think that um maybe VHB
1:42:44 | will reach out to you guys. I don't know
1:42:46 | if you can
1:42:47 | VHB actually has reached out to me.
1:42:49 | Yeah, I'm meeting with them. I think
1:42:51 | there's a focus group on housing and
1:42:52 | land use next week. So, I'll be
1:42:54 | participating in that and yeah, talk
1:42:56 | about the
1:42:58 | Thank you so much for your back.
1:43:02 | Sorry to keep you so late.
1:43:03 | Oh, no worries.
1:43:09 | [clears throat]
1:43:12 | Did you win?
1:43:13 | No.
1:43:14 | No.
1:43:14 | That's why.
1:43:16 | [laughter]
1:43:17 | Did you play Steph?
1:43:18 | Was it close?
1:43:19 | She was on the next first game. Was
1:43:23 | not the second.
1:43:24 | Oh, how high she is.
1:43:27 | Cheers.
1:43:28 | Leave it right here.
1:43:30 | All right.
1:43:33 | I feel like he he loves leaving his
1:43:34 | phone here. So, could be He's done it
1:43:37 | before.
1:43:37 | Yes, Tiffany was on that.
1:43:39 | I think it is.
1:43:42 | I can't text him and tell his phone. So,
1:43:45 | maybe he's got a work phone.
1:43:47 | Call 911.
1:43:49 | [laughter]
1:43:53 | Dispatch.
1:43:55 | I used to have dispatch phone number,
1:43:58 | right?
1:43:58 | So you could bypass.
1:43:59 | Yeah. Tell me if that ring.
1:44:01 | He's had a rough week.
1:44:03 | It's ringing.
1:44:04 | Wow.
1:44:05 | Yeah. Yeah, it's his.
1:44:07 | Yeah.
1:44:07 | So these are the
1:44:10 | Okay. Minutes that we're doing now.
1:44:22 | All right.
1:44:24 | June, September, September
1:44:29 | all the way back to June.
1:44:43 | Excuse me.
1:44:49 | Was
1:44:51 | [cough]
1:44:52 | [clears throat]
1:45:06 | Gothier here in June also or was is that
1:45:10 | date
1:45:11 | not correct?
1:45:13 | Um just for discussion.
1:45:17 | He came in for an interview.
1:45:18 | Okay. Okay. So, there wasn't much
1:45:20 | information.
1:45:21 | Okay. Thank you.
1:46:06 | We went to June already.
1:46:08 | June. Yeah. Make a motion to accept the
1:46:11 | uh agenda and minutes from June 3rd,
1:46:15 | 2026.
1:46:18 | Second motion.
1:46:20 | All um all in favor?
1:46:22 | I
1:46:23 | I
1:46:24 | I
1:46:29 | for September.
1:46:31 | Sure.
1:46:32 | I move that we accept the minutes for
1:46:35 | the September 2nd, 2026.
1:46:45 | Second.
1:46:46 | All in favor?
1:46:47 | I
1:47:04 | This was the I
1:47:35 | [clears throat]
1:47:56 | had to put the factory housing in there.
1:48:01 | [laughter]
1:48:02 | Did it did
1:48:09 | so?
1:48:28 | [clears throat]
1:48:41 | Is everybody able September 16th?
1:48:46 | I move that we accept the minutes for
1:48:49 | the September 16th, 2026
1:48:52 | meeting.
1:48:53 | I'll second. All
1:48:54 | in favor? I like that state.
1:49:05 | Um, and we have any of the added stuff?
1:49:08 | Uh, yes. Just the weekly update. Um,
1:49:14 | couple things. We have question for you
1:49:16 | folks which would be um a little bit of
1:49:20 | the history. My understanding is this
1:49:22 | room, I think it was Alan Gordon was was
1:49:24 | very particular about using this room
1:49:26 | and never using the select board room.
1:49:29 | Was that an Allen Gordon thing or is
1:49:31 | that a planning board thing? Cuz I think
1:49:33 | it may behoove the board with the setup
1:49:36 | that we have over there in terms of
1:49:38 | better cameras, better microphones, and
1:49:40 | I think a little bit more of a better
1:49:42 | setup for public interaction. I've been
1:49:45 | doing this for a really long time and
1:49:47 | having a big table
1:49:49 | makes a huge difference with because we
1:49:52 | physically it's nice to see it on the
1:49:54 | the you know TV and stuff but having a
1:49:56 | physical plans is is really nice. Um it
1:50:00 | could be just because I'm old and I I
1:50:02 | want to feel them but and I've been
1:50:05 | doing it the same way for you know
1:50:07 | so they don't have a table big enough
1:50:09 | for that in this
1:50:11 | room. Yeah. And we have [clears throat]
1:50:13 | the thing is in this board, right, in
1:50:14 | this room, we have anything we want to
1:50:16 | grab. If we want Jane to go grab
1:50:18 | something out of the drawer or reference
1:50:19 | something, we have all the files here.
1:50:21 | And um the the I I and I know in the
1:50:26 | town hall they would love to chop this
1:50:30 | room off and use this as public meeting
1:50:32 | space. That's like the the talk because
1:50:35 | don't you know all the gossip happens in
1:50:36 | the town? Um come on guys, keep up with
1:50:38 | the gossip. They would love to chop this
1:50:40 | off, make this a a room so other people
1:50:43 | could have meetings here.
1:50:44 | And I mean,
1:50:46 | yeah, when I worked here, I didn't hear.
1:50:48 | Yeah. No, it's it's a new talk. It's
1:50:50 | talking new. So,
1:50:52 | and you're saying if we if we moved to
1:50:56 | the select board meetings and we
1:50:58 | wouldn't need this office. I would I
1:51:00 | would
1:51:01 | I mean, we we use a lot of this room.
1:51:03 | So,
1:51:05 | and you guys can correct me, but that's
1:51:06 | not what I mean. I
1:51:08 | well you you would you guys would know
1:51:09 | more than I hear.
1:51:11 | I don't think this room has been a a
1:51:13 | problem for most hearings that we have.
1:51:16 | We have moved to the select board
1:51:18 | or the senior center for really big
1:51:20 | ones.
1:51:20 | The senior center we've even had
1:51:22 | meetings in the elementary or the the
1:51:24 | the middle school
1:51:25 | and and just having I mean look like the
1:51:27 | hearings we like look at the the amount
1:51:30 | of people. I mean typically if we have
1:51:32 | one or two people or just the whoever
1:51:34 | presents
1:51:35 | [clears throat]
1:51:35 | um it's it no we
1:51:37 | I think some of the meetings that you've
1:51:38 | seen are are
1:51:41 | full of full full
1:51:42 | occupancy. What happens if you start
1:51:44 | giving up space you're not getting it
1:51:46 | back right and like I I it it is
1:51:50 | if we want to try to have a few meetings
1:51:52 | in there and and and and go for it but I
1:51:55 | I definitely do not want to give up if
1:51:58 | that's the plan. I definitely don't want
1:52:00 | to I I think it's great that a a
1:52:02 | developer can walk in and it's sort of
1:52:04 | like an open, you know, uh open space.
1:52:07 | If somebody's having a conversation,
1:52:08 | someone's listening,
1:52:10 | right? So, it's not like there's you
1:52:12 | can't hear and we want a witness for
1:52:14 | conversations, it's nice to
1:52:16 | if if it's an agenda where you think
1:52:18 | there's going to be a lot of people
1:52:20 | like I know for the solar we went in
1:52:22 | that room.
1:52:23 | Yeah. when I was on that committee.
1:52:25 | I think BG most of those meetings were
1:52:27 | held downstairs and the final one was
1:52:29 | held in heritage room.
1:52:31 | I mean, I think we could do to respect
1:52:35 | the new incoming planning director.
1:52:37 | Maybe we could move stuff around a
1:52:40 | little bit. I think it could use a
1:52:42 | couple more chairs. I don't know, new
1:52:45 | chairs, maybe even, you know, line them
1:52:47 | up. We could put two rows, move it back
1:52:50 | a little bit, but keep this space. But I
1:52:53 | mean we could have different chairs up
1:52:57 | here rows of chairs because I could see
1:53:00 | two rows of chairs and like more first
1:53:03 | of all we need new posters of like the
1:53:06 | water system in town would be nice and
1:53:07 | sort of like couple of room like flipart
1:53:10 | whiteboard
1:53:11 | keep in mind where the where the TV is
1:53:13 | and stuff and and
1:53:15 | we want to be able to to see it
1:53:18 | right but if our if we were right there
1:53:20 | we could still do rows Yeah. I don't if
1:53:23 | we want to move this around, I don't
1:53:24 | have a problem with this. I just
1:53:26 | definitely don't want to give up. I
1:53:28 | don't want a wall here because that's I
1:53:30 | don't want a wall here and and and now
1:53:33 | there's offices and and this is
1:53:36 | not our space anymore. That's what I'm
1:53:38 | saying. I I I
1:53:40 | I agree. I just Yeah, maybe we could
1:53:42 | just I don't maybe push the divider back
1:53:45 | a foot and move it and put two rows of
1:53:48 | seats and
1:53:49 | we need a whiteboard, a flip chart. I
1:53:51 | think it worked out good when when the
1:53:53 | tables were pushed up closer to to that
1:53:55 | area. They have rows seats here and it
1:53:59 | worked out well.
1:53:59 | They were actually like three rows.
1:54:01 | Yeah, I think I think the rows are rows
1:54:03 | are fine and and it actually be better
1:54:06 | for for the public to see the to see the
1:54:09 | TV.
1:54:09 | I know if everyone's facing the same
1:54:12 | way.
1:54:12 | So, I think that's maybe we could you
1:54:14 | and Jane can come up with some
1:54:15 | solutions.
1:54:17 | Yeah. I don't care what the chairs
1:54:19 | chairs go as long as we we remain this
1:54:21 | is our meeting room and we kind of don't
1:54:24 | kill the open floor plan because of that
1:54:27 | you said I
1:54:28 | um
1:54:30 | when somebody comes in this should
1:54:32 | always it typically should be somebody
1:54:34 | overhearing that like a witness whatever
1:54:36 | I know that sounds but
1:54:38 | I always worked cuz conservation uses
1:54:42 | but the select meaning
1:54:46 | it depends And so yeah, generally most
1:54:48 | folks will go over there unless
1:54:51 | somebody's already in there and then
1:54:52 | they'll come into here. So we had zoning
1:54:54 | board of appeals. Um
1:54:58 | yeah, they asked to use the space so
1:54:59 | they they came in here.
1:55:01 | Board of Health uses their own space
1:55:03 | though, aren't they? Right.
1:55:04 | Yep. Um
1:55:06 | but yeah, it's it's you know, we're
1:55:08 | meeting space is limited. We uh we share
1:55:11 | when we can. Um
1:55:12 | yeah, we've always been good about
1:55:13 | sharing. I just don't want to give up
1:55:16 | our space. We have we are the most
1:55:18 | important board in the in the building
1:55:20 | and I want to make sure that we preserve
1:55:22 | and own our space.
1:55:23 | Um but yeah
1:55:24 | the board for the biggest paperwork
1:55:25 | anyway. I mean there's your answer years
1:55:28 | ago they wanted to off but
1:55:31 | it's a new talk and I
1:55:35 | I'm not going to give up our constant
1:55:37 | meeting space when we have meetings
1:55:38 | always available. I I don't want to
1:55:42 | Yeah.
1:55:42 | We need we need our space. We have stuff
1:55:45 | which I mean it does bring my next point
1:55:47 | which I'm I'm I'm hearing resistance on
1:55:48 | this one which would be keeping the
1:55:50 | space but adding a wall here. The idea
1:55:53 | being uh so that way Jane and I would
1:55:55 | have actual offices rather than the
1:55:58 | shared space. It's can be difficult if
1:56:00 | I'm on a Zoom meeting here and then Jane
1:56:03 | is on the phone. It will then kind of
1:56:05 | create that um it can be difficult to be
1:56:09 | having two conversations at once. It's
1:56:12 | funny because in our our our new updated
1:56:14 | office, they designed it all open space
1:56:17 | now, right?
1:56:18 | Yeah. I mean, I I for years years of
1:56:21 | cubicles though where people are are all
1:56:23 | around you and you know, I think you can
1:56:25 | eat too open new architecture. The open
1:56:29 | share tables people on the phone and you
1:56:32 | can't concentrate on.
1:56:33 | Yeah, we have we have like
1:56:34 | Is there something we can do taller
1:56:35 | then? Like a happy medium.
1:56:37 | Cube cube zim bigger for both of you.
1:56:42 | the desk a little bit more going over
1:56:43 | that side.
1:56:44 | Jane, do you even want a cube? Don't I
1:56:46 | mean I mean I
1:56:47 | Yeah, I'm actually fine. I need to see
1:56:49 | people coming in.
1:56:51 | You'd rather see them coming in.
1:56:52 | I greet people for doing higher.
1:56:56 | Yeah, I think the idea would be if we
1:56:57 | put a wall there that there would be
1:56:59 | glass so it wouldn't just be a a blank
1:57:02 | wall. Uh, the idea would be a wall, a
1:57:06 | door, a door that enters in from there,
1:57:07 | but then a door to Jane's office and a
1:57:10 | door to my office in here. So that way
1:57:13 | it would still be
1:57:13 | Yeah, I think there there's been been a
1:57:16 | push to
1:57:18 | windows
1:57:20 | windows and keeping the public outside
1:57:22 | of the the actual meeting space or the
1:57:24 | employee space. I know they've done
1:57:26 | that.
1:57:26 | This is like you said, this is
1:57:27 | different. We're always looking at big
1:57:29 | plans.
1:57:30 | Like that's what surprises me. They
1:57:32 | could they could come out here and keep
1:57:34 | us here
1:57:35 | but also provide a barrier from the you
1:57:38 | know
1:57:40 | and the idea would be that because again
1:57:42 | they they would still be separate
1:57:44 | issues. We could add a wall here and
1:57:47 | that would allow you know if somebody
1:57:49 | wanted to meet during the day we could
1:57:51 | shut our doors and allow for a meeting
1:57:53 | in here. Then the planning board could
1:57:54 | still retain this.
1:57:56 | Just be careful going down that road
1:57:57 | because
1:57:58 | once that wall goes up they may take
1:58:00 | this away from from on the plane board.
1:58:02 | Yeah, we that's I mean
1:58:04 | I mean right now we have boards that um
1:58:07 | like all like each other but when
1:58:09 | there's a when there is a space war it
1:58:11 | just
1:58:12 | and I'm assuming you use this table for
1:58:14 | for contractors when they come in
1:58:16 | when people come in we have a seat here
1:58:18 | it's
1:58:19 | exactly
1:58:19 | it's useful to have a big table here
1:58:22 | for the meeting and and so I'm I'm
1:58:26 | incentivized to not uh you know lose the
1:58:29 | space as well Um but the idea being that
1:58:34 | uh it does limit it for any other type
1:58:38 | of use for town as well.
1:58:40 | We don't really care about the rest
1:58:42 | about the rest of the committees.
1:58:43 | [snorts] I mean
1:58:43 | we all get along but I don't care.
1:58:45 | But you know you know you know what I'm
1:58:46 | saying though I mean like it's great
1:58:48 | they can use it when they want but we're
1:58:50 | not modifying so other people can use
1:58:52 | our space. I mean
1:58:54 | really are we going to spend the tax?
1:58:56 | We're going to spend the residents money
1:58:58 | to modify. So, so right. Go to the
1:59:01 | library and use one of their arms. Real
1:59:02 | I mean
1:59:04 | just
1:59:05 | but back to what Dylan would like
1:59:08 | something quieter. Maybe there's
1:59:10 | something we can do with a temporary. I
1:59:12 | know they make cubicles somewhat taller.
1:59:14 | They do
1:59:15 | and they do have cutouts for windows. So
1:59:17 | maybe then we don't have to do anything
1:59:18 | structural
1:59:20 | and it could
1:59:21 | and look at the cost.
1:59:24 | And maybe we already h you know have
1:59:26 | maybe there's something in the basement
1:59:28 | floating around too.
1:59:29 | What about those glass partition things?
1:59:34 | Series of those.
1:59:36 | Well, I guess take it under
1:59:37 | consideration
1:59:37 | and look Yeah, look at options. Um yeah,
1:59:39 | let us I mean I I have no I think I mean
1:59:43 | they make um they make like these like
1:59:45 | really tall like real
1:59:47 | real
1:59:48 | and nicer.
1:59:49 | Yeah, wood. We should look at some
1:59:51 | prices and see what um you know if it's
1:59:54 | in the budget to do.
1:59:57 | And there's a lot of companies that have
1:59:58 | closed the doors. I know when my
2:00:00 | husband's company needed office
2:00:01 | furniture and petitions, there's people
2:00:03 | that
2:00:05 | sell secondhand that are incredibly
2:00:08 | nice.
2:00:09 | Just there's a
2:00:13 | Yeah. I mean,
2:00:14 | we'll take we'll think about it. Yeah, I
2:00:15 | guess something to discuss and and and
2:00:18 | see like numbers and budget like numbers
2:00:21 | what it like what it's going to cost.
2:00:22 | Is this something the town hall would do
2:00:24 | or is this something where come on, you
2:00:25 | know, the point budget and like I said,
2:00:27 | I'm still worried about losing this half
2:00:29 | of the room once that petition goes up,
2:00:32 | but J, well, you don't need this
2:00:35 | anymore.
2:00:36 | So, it would just be Dylan.
2:00:37 | So, they could
2:00:42 | uh it's easier for us to respond to
2:00:45 | something
2:00:46 | in a drawing. I think maybe that
2:00:49 | that was a good way to start the
2:00:50 | conversation. If you maybe firm
2:00:53 | something up, drawings and a quote that
2:00:55 | we can approve.
2:00:56 | Yeah. Some sort of at least at least
2:00:58 | some ideas about about cost and what it
2:01:01 | would look like and and be I I mean, I
2:01:03 | know I sound like I'm like the big old
2:01:05 | grump here, but I'm I'm I'm where this
2:01:09 | space. We're lucky that we have constant
2:01:11 | space cuz look at our stuff.
2:01:13 | Yeah.
2:01:13 | Right. And um it's and being able to
2:01:17 | grab plans and grab things and having
2:01:20 | them available because we're are they
2:01:21 | going to now be moved somewhere. Look at
2:01:23 | the we could do better with our file
2:01:26 | cabinets and stuff, but um yeah, maybe
2:01:30 | upgrade. We still have the room in the
2:01:32 | basement for files. There was a
2:01:35 | document.
2:01:36 | We don't have anything down there, but
2:01:37 | there is still space. And they're
2:01:39 | looking for more space. I can tell you
2:01:40 | that recreation had our plans someplace
2:01:43 | else and somebody shredded them all.
2:01:45 | So there's no historical recreation
2:01:46 | files anywhere. Somebody shredded them
2:01:48 | all.
2:01:49 | Yeah. Cuz I probably kept them for seven
2:01:51 | years and then
2:01:52 | No, they were. And but some of these
2:01:53 | were historical. I mean some of these
2:01:55 | things were stuff that would have helped
2:01:57 | us now and not pay new consultant. Like
2:02:00 | you know what I'm saying? Like we just
2:02:01 | don't have those.
2:02:01 | Do you know who you need to strangle?
2:02:03 | We know exactly who's who
2:02:04 | and do you know why they
2:02:05 | um because it was easier. So, um, but
2:02:09 | again, and I'm I'm paranoid because
2:02:12 | these things, but they do happen. So at
2:02:14 | being able I mean if if we're going to
2:02:17 | invest some you know in some um maybe we
2:02:20 | get better file cabinets and and better
2:02:23 | options and
2:02:25 | maybe there can be a file cabinet tall
2:02:28 | wall here you know like like come up
2:02:30 | with ideas
2:02:31 | seats you know
2:02:34 | and something that matches even Jane's
2:02:36 | desk for a divider
2:02:38 | even
2:02:40 | so it looks uniform
2:02:42 | and maybe there is an upgrade. I mean,
2:02:44 | these seats are really cool that they're
2:02:46 | where they're um they're probably like
2:02:47 | 100 years old. Um these chairs that we
2:02:50 | have um but maybe it's the upgrade
2:02:54 | seats.
2:02:55 | Those are from
2:02:56 | upstairs in the library, weren't they?
2:02:58 | In the library.
2:02:59 | Are they from the library? They're
2:03:00 | definitely school
2:03:01 | back when they were back when this was a
2:03:02 | school probably.
2:03:04 | We had those at the library too when it
2:03:06 | was the meetings were up there.
2:03:08 | Um I do have a question that kind of
2:03:10 | goes along with that. I read somewhere
2:03:12 | that said that the the maps you have
2:03:14 | displayed in your planning offices if
2:03:18 | they're outdated, somebody could come in
2:03:20 | and and legally be able to follow it.
2:03:23 | Really? I'm not Are they updated? I
2:03:25 | mean,
2:03:26 | I'm just asking just that one's up to
2:03:28 | date.
2:03:30 | That's a good question to to look up
2:03:32 | though
2:03:32 | cuz I I just I don't know.
2:03:34 | Yeah, but they have dates on them.
2:03:36 | Yeah,
2:03:37 | that one. Yeah, that would have
2:03:39 | we've got some hours with CNPRC. I mean,
2:03:41 | we've got like 20 something hours.
2:03:43 | Put a disclaimer, like a legal
2:03:45 | disclaimer on it.
2:03:46 | Well, we uh we have some
2:03:48 | Is there anything we need
2:03:50 | endangered species and wetland
2:03:53 | protection?
2:03:55 | We have a solar field.
2:03:56 | Does water and sewer have one that we
2:03:57 | can have they can print for us?
2:03:59 | We can print in the giant printer.
2:04:00 | Somebody must have
2:04:01 | can print it for us. Big giant.
2:04:04 | Oh, yeah.
2:04:04 | Got a plotter. That would be nice. That
2:04:06 | would be useful
2:04:06 | because we we also have endangered
2:04:08 | species of critical habitat. There's a
2:04:10 | little bit of going on and then there's
2:04:13 | some areas and next terror is on it
2:04:18 | projects on it.
2:04:20 | But that map is just
2:04:24 | don't know where it went. [laughter]
2:04:27 | Really good point.
2:04:28 | So
2:04:29 | let's get let's find some find. I'll
2:04:31 | show it to you. It's funny how
2:04:34 | new room for new maps
2:04:35 | might be old. But James, can you follow
2:04:37 | up on on on like that? Um,
2:04:42 | critical habitat.
2:04:43 | The critical habitat.
2:04:44 | I'll I'll peek through what we have.
2:04:46 | Yeah.
2:04:46 | Yes. Because it would be great.
2:04:47 | Alan never got rid of anything.
2:04:49 | Okay.
2:04:50 | So, I will peek through the pile.
2:04:51 | It'll be great to kind of get
2:04:52 | I don't know where this came from. Open
2:04:53 | space, greenways, and trail
2:04:56 | that probably needs updating.
2:04:58 | Oh, that's it.
2:04:58 | Come up with some ideas and show us. a
2:05:01 | permanent easel for presentations from
2:05:04 | applicants would be good, you know, just
2:05:07 | because they're always setting things up
2:05:09 | and turn.
2:05:10 | Well, we we have an easel, right?
2:05:13 | We don't have to spend We don't want to
2:05:14 | spend We don't want to spend town money
2:05:16 | if we don't have to. This is why we have
2:05:17 | the Walmart TV and not the fancy smart
2:05:20 | one. Remember that you were Yeah,
2:05:22 | we saved like thousands of dollars on
2:05:24 | the touchscreen TV. Should we update
2:05:27 | this one?
2:05:29 | Probably should. I mean 2002 I mean that
2:05:32 | was a good year right I'm just like I
2:05:34 | don't
2:05:36 | say it's close to
2:05:38 | 25 years ago
2:05:39 | makes for a good wall
2:05:40 | wire
2:05:42 | the the the map I try to get updated is
2:05:45 | the the zoning map that's I always want
2:05:47 | to know most importantly cuz what can I
2:05:49 | do where do you live
2:05:50 | put in some of the biggest uh employers
2:05:55 | where are the biggest companies
2:05:56 | the open space I knew open space map
2:05:58 | would be good too Um
2:06:00 | I'm not sure the online
2:06:04 | um GIS mapping is correct either. I
2:06:07 | think maybe that that may be something
2:06:08 | we can have CMPRC doc to update the the
2:06:12 | online GIS because I don't think the
2:06:14 | zoning overlays work. There's a lot of
2:06:16 | things that are not working on that
2:06:20 | map. Yeah.
2:06:22 | And the open space that's conservation.
2:06:23 | We can see if they've got a a map.
2:06:25 | Yes. So I mean maybe within 24 hours of
2:06:28 | of time that CM BRC update the GIS is
2:06:33 | that something they normally do? Isn't
2:06:34 | that
2:06:35 | they have all our maps that came from
2:06:38 | that came from make sure they have the
2:06:40 | it's just the town data online that's
2:06:43 | that's uh I because I use that all the
2:06:45 | time to see what's what's happening
2:06:46 | around
2:06:47 | normal responsibility.
2:06:48 | I think I think it's something that'll
2:06:50 | be that they've always always done. It's
2:06:53 | my understanding. Perfect.
2:06:59 | We'll get some drawings together of of
2:07:01 | what uh any structural changes might
2:07:04 | look like. Um so you have something
2:07:07 | visual in there. And um yeah, I mean
2:07:10 | something to consider as well just
2:07:13 | in terms of where we host the meetings.
2:07:15 | The reason I do recommend the other one
2:07:16 | is again it's it's the quality of the
2:07:20 | recordings because here you know the
2:07:22 | camera behind us.
2:07:23 | the back of, you know, mine and Bill's
2:07:25 | head. Um, and it can
2:07:31 | where we already have the equipment in
2:07:33 | town, it's it's hard to argue for, you
2:07:35 | know, kind of a whole separate setup for
2:07:38 | another room just so we could get better
2:07:40 | recording in here. So, we go
2:07:42 | there's there's often a meeting in there
2:07:44 | on Wednesday nights. So, it's it's
2:07:46 | somebody else is using that um whether
2:07:49 | it's Vincom or or somebody else. We
2:07:52 | could do we could do the you could do
2:07:54 | like a
2:07:55 | I think we could set this room up better
2:07:57 | and we have over here and then have cuz
2:07:59 | we used to have the camera over here.
2:08:00 | You remember you got I used camera being
2:08:03 | here only cuz
2:08:04 | I don't like have people behind me
2:08:06 | either.
2:08:06 | I'm afraid
2:08:08 | someone
2:08:10 | used to be like so you could do like
2:08:12 | [clears throat]
2:08:13 | be you right there, right? So now
2:08:15 | there's room to present and then the
2:08:17 | camera is here and we're all facing you
2:08:21 | know we're here. Yes.
2:08:22 | And the the camera's here. And then you
2:08:25 | have the the residents
2:08:27 | here. And then the camera can also see
2:08:28 | the TV from over here.
2:08:30 | Yeah.
2:08:31 | My tough part was wide shots. I got to
2:08:33 | get far enough back to get everybody
2:08:35 | that's talking.
2:08:36 | And I can't get an easel over there from
2:08:38 | this spot. I'm just just throwing out my
2:08:40 | problem with it.
2:08:40 | If you're over here,
2:08:41 | if you project on the TV and you're over
2:08:43 | this corner,
2:08:45 | I can still see that. But I if I if the
2:08:47 | easel's over there and I'm there, that's
2:08:49 | great. But those times I'm not here and
2:08:51 | I'm just wide shot under the easel could
2:08:54 | stay under the TV like in that area and
2:08:56 | we could be like a a you like this.
2:08:59 | It'll be a little awkward for us to
2:09:03 | and then have the audience here so the
2:09:05 | camera is getting us not the audience.
2:09:08 | I could feed this to that TV and I can
2:09:11 | zoom in on the maps and you can see it
2:09:13 | up there.
2:09:15 | That sounds good too. I'd rather shoot
2:09:17 | that than that. I I think changing the
2:09:20 | the format of this room is probably I I
2:09:22 | I like the way it used to be 10 years
2:09:24 | ago when it was over here. I think we
2:09:26 | did this recently, probably during co
2:09:28 | time something.
2:09:30 | We actually had that whole role where
2:09:32 | people could come up and talk to you.
2:09:34 | Yep.
2:09:34 | It was like this wide.
2:09:36 | Yep.
2:09:36 | Remember you guys all sat like that?
2:09:39 | What about an L with a gap in it? So we
2:09:42 | sit in this L and the audience sits
2:09:45 | here. I'm I'm pretty sure you should
2:09:46 | just snap a picture and have AI do do
2:09:49 | seating suggestions in best format.
2:09:51 | There we go. I need a whiteboard. Let's
2:09:53 | come up with a come up with a lighting
2:09:54 | board.
2:09:56 | That was years ago. We were like we were
2:09:58 | going to get [laughter] out of
2:10:00 | hot tub over there in that corner.
2:10:01 | I was like, are we actually going to use
2:10:03 | a whiteboard? We have whiteboards at
2:10:04 | work and no one ever used school.
2:10:06 | I think without a whiteboard.
2:10:08 | Yeah, I've got my whiteboard right there
2:10:10 | with all my scrollings on there.
2:10:15 | I'll do my best thinking,
2:10:16 | but not a smart board. Just
2:10:18 | whiteboard.
2:10:19 | Oh, we were talking a smart whiteboard.
2:10:21 | Yeah, I'm with you.
2:10:22 | Oh, plain old white boards.
2:10:24 | I use them at home. Little chalkboard.
2:10:26 | Smart boards are
2:10:29 | just
2:10:31 | you end up using just a really fancy
2:10:32 | projector anyways. So,
2:10:34 | it's true. We do have chalkboards.
2:10:36 | White.
2:10:40 | Everybody cover your ears.
2:10:42 | CL.
2:10:45 | Anything else?
2:10:46 | Uh, I think that is everything.
2:10:49 | Okay.
2:10:51 | Any other business unknown at time of
2:10:53 | posting? Anything else happening?
2:10:56 | Folks are all up to speed.
2:10:58 | Okay.
2:11:00 | Then I'll make a motion we adjourn.
2:11:02 | I second a motion. All
2:11:04 | in favor? I I