2026-08-25 - Select Board Meeting

Summary

The board made several appointments: Joel Panitude to the master plan steering committee, Aljani Stanley to the ZBA, and accepted Shane Gansky's resignation. DCRSD Superintendent Steven Lamar and Joseph Desantis presented the district's $11.1M non-MSBA school capital request (Charlton's share ~$6.1M), tied to a district-wide ballot vote on September 29 (8am–4pm); Heritage School was identified as the top-priority facility given $135–139M in total assessed district needs. The Senior/Community Center Feasibility Committee (Pat Stockwell, Bruce Menon, Kathleen Dery) presented a proposal to buy and renovate the former Dresser Hill furniture store property ($1.8M purchase + $11.6M renovation, ~$12.5–14M total, ~$251/household tax impact), sparking debate among members — Karen pushed back on cost justification and messaging, Mike questioned the land valuation, and David Singer advocated strongly for putting it to a ballot vote, citing survey data (though with small sample caveats, ~100 and ~35 respondents). Singer also proposed eliminating death certificate and dog license fees for seniors/veterans, which was tabled for further research. The next Select Board meeting was set for September 8, 2026.

Issues discussed: DCRSD $11.1M School Capital Request, Senior Community Center Feasibility

Transcript

0:06 | to order. Time is 6:31.
0:11 | August 25th, 2026, the child and select board meeting.
0:16 | Town Hall meeting room 1, 37 Main Street.
0:26 | This meeting is being recorded and broadcast live on Charlton cable access TV on Spectrum TV channel 191 and
0:34 | recording available on the YouTube channel for Charlton TV. Any member of the public who wishes to record the meeting must first notify the chair.
0:44 | With that, stand for the pledge of allegiance.
0:53 | To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
1:01 | indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
1:07 | Okay, moving on to appointments.
1:14 | All right. Uh few appointments for this evening. We had an appointment for the master plan steering committee. Uh Joel Panitude uh attaches to town bank form
1:22 | from Joel Panitude seeking to be appointed to the master plan steering committee. Mr. Pan's attendance at the last attended the last master plan
1:30 | steering committee meeting and I'd recommend the board make the appointment. Second.
1:36 | Oh, we have to do a roll call vote. All in favor? Steve? I I David I
1:46 | participate unanimous and welcome aboard. Thank you.
1:51 | Uh the next appointment is for the zoning board of appeals alternate member to the full board. The zoning board of appeals has one full member opening. At
1:58 | their meeting on August 18th, 2026, they voted to recommend the select board appoint alternate member Alani Stanley as a full member. I recommend the board make the appointment as requested.
2:13 | Motion a second. Second. All in favor? Roll call vote. Bush. I. Steve I. Mike.
2:20 | David. I unanimous. Thank you, Karen.
2:27 | And finally, we have a resignation from the highway department. uh attaches a letter from Shane Gansky resigning his position as highway or as heavy equipment operator for the Charlton
2:35 | Highway Department effective August 20th 26 board should accept his resation.
2:40 | So move with regret motion in a second
2:51 | I okay unanimous
3:01 | And then moving on to action items.
3:04 | First, we have invited DCRSD Superintendent Steam Marsh uh to tonight's meeting to discuss schools
3:11 | capital items and projects that MSBA just one second to [clears throat] follow up their presentation.
3:29 | Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you.
3:30 | Thanks for having us. Um, again, this has been a capital plan that's been uh a long time in process. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm I'm Joseph Desantis, director of finance
3:39 | and operations for DCRSD. Um, we're here with Stephen Lamar, superintendent, and Anthony Obby from the school committee
3:46 | is joining us as well. Now, this this PowerPoint deck is directly related to
3:53 | the information sessions and the capital information that we have and that we'll be sharing um with school committee,
4:01 | with the public um and with our staff and residents. So, I'll briefly go through the slides that we have. If you have any questions, feel free to stop me
4:09 | and let me know. I'll be happy to answer anything as we go. You can go to the next slide.
4:17 | So, here's a brief agenda. We'll have an overview of our past projects, our facilities condition assessment, MSBA,
4:24 | what's included, not included, general timeline, um an early debt schedule and tax impact, and then any questions that
4:32 | um we can field at the time of the information sessions. Next slide. Here's [clears throat] an overview of our past projects. Um our major renovations and
4:41 | construction 2000. Um you can see both middle schools, new construction. um some doors and windows and athletic field renovations at Shephard Hill. And
4:50 | our most recent capital request is 2023 where we put new roofs on Dudley Middle and Charlton Middle School. Um as well
4:59 | as upgraded fire alarm panels, radio communications, and cameras.
5:05 | Here is a one-page summary of the facilities condition assessment from Khabib and Associates
5:12 | from 2024. Um, this provides a per school breakdown of all of the projects
5:20 | identified within the facility condition assessment and it grades them on a scope one to three. Um, on severity, one being the least severe, three being the most
5:29 | severe. Um, you can see Heritage School is by far and away the I won't call them the winner in this, but um, you can see
5:37 | the biggest need u financially seems to be Heritage School. U I will note that
5:44 | DCRSD in April put in statements of interest for Heritage School and for Shepard Hill through MSBA uh where they
5:51 | would be funding the vast majority of MSBA eligible projects, but I'll get into that further after this slide.
5:58 | You can see the total is approximately 139 million. That was as of 2024. Um
6:05 | they have accounted for inflation over the scope of several years. So, you know, we're looking at anywhere between
6:12 | 139 164 million. Obviously, the longer we wait, the more expensive labor and materials become. So, it definitely
6:20 | behooves us to want to attack these projects earlier rather than later and not compound any issues that may already be in um scope one or two or obviously
6:28 | we'd want to stay away from failure of anything in scope three. Next slide.
6:34 | Here's uh MSBA, Mass School Building Authority. Just a general update. It's an authority created to reform the process of funding specifically capital
6:42 | improvement projects um in the Commonwealth public schools and MSBA provides the vast majority the vast percentage of funding required uh for
6:51 | projects that are identified and fall within their scope of MSBA eligibility.
6:57 | Funding to address the projects uh are identified as either MSBA eligible, one of two buckets, MSBA eligible, MSBA
7:05 | ineligible. Our capital requests that we are bringing to you are specifically for projects that are considered not MSBA
7:14 | eligible. So MSBA would not be able to provide any funding for this. Um hence why we're coming directly to the municipalities for approval. Anything
7:23 | that is listed as an MSBA eligible project, we are going to pursue MSBA funding for. U obviously like I had said
7:32 | Heritage um and Shepard Hill where the highest dollar value um issues within the scope of work.
7:40 | So we did enter uh statements of interest with MSBA and school committee voted uh the heritage school as a top priority based on the school report.
7:53 | You can go to the next slide.
7:55 | So what's included in the current capital request? There are five major categories that they've been broken down to. U building site safety, the exterior
8:04 | envelope and weatherization measures, interior health and safety, mechanical systems, and IT.
8:12 | Now, this is a summary for both Dudley and Charlton for all five major categories that are included within the
8:20 | capital request. You'll see the total cost at the bottom right between Dudley and Trellton is 11,183734
8:28 | which matches what Uni Bank had provided us for borrowing. Obviously that's you know it could be subject to change but
8:36 | um this is the amount that we are asking for authorization to borrow and you can see the breakdown between the five categories for both Dudley and Charlton.
8:47 | So I'm happy to answer any questions on what that involves. Um, however, I will have an accompanying document that lists
8:55 | all of our projects in one of these five categories with the subtotals created so that you can verify those totals if there's any question and those are coming up in the slides.
9:05 | Uh, those will be coming up. I do have secondary backup that we're going to add that gives full detail that goes along with the facilities condition assessment. But that was a little
9:14 | lengthy to put into this presentation, but I'm more than happy to provide that documentation to borders.
9:21 | Next slide.
9:23 | Here's our general timeline that we're looking at. July of this year, school committee authorized the debt in the district-wide election this upcoming
9:31 | September. Obviously, we have the uh district-wide ballot and vote along with our information sessions on September 2nd and 3rd for Dudley and Charlton.
9:41 | Um July 2027 would be the issuance of a ban, which is a bond anticipation note, which is utilized to start funding for
9:50 | specific projects. Um and that's when we would consider having our groundbreaking approximately around that time toward the middle the end of summer. of next
9:59 | year, the following year, July of 2028, that ban expires and we would issue a general obligation bond and pay off the
10:07 | band at that time um to get permanent financing for the identified projects.
10:14 | August to November 2028, the first interest on bonds is due and May 29 would be the first payment of the bonds
10:22 | with the final payment being 15 years later, May 204. Next slide, please.
10:31 | Now, this is a sample for Charlton specifically of the debt schedule that we would be looking at. On the left
10:38 | side, you'll notice the principal interest grand total. Um, and on the right, you'll see a sample of the tax
10:46 | rate and the average single family home tax impact on an annual basis. Again,
10:54 | these will be refined more as the project goes on, but this is as close to accurate as we can get at this time.
11:02 | So, there's no questions on that. We can move to the next slide.
11:04 | Well, how were you able to tell what our tax rate is going to be?
11:07 | This was done in conjunction with Uni Bank. So, we take Yeah. So, they take the um total tax role, they take the average value for a single family
11:16 | residence um and they project out from there.
11:20 | So, the average house over that term period of what's it 13 years 14 years is $1,000.
11:28 | Yes.
11:29 | So per household.
11:32 | Yeah. This because this is a little confusing.
11:35 | I'll just clarify. They're taking this on the basis of the current assessed value current assessed values and extrapolating it as compared to the
11:43 | grand total of what's due. So whatever your home value is per thousand, you know, I believe that you know right now
11:51 | at low tens for our tax rate. So you would essenti if if that project was being financed currently uh say in year
11:59 | one that's add 10 cents to the current tax rate. The average single family home is based off the average of all single family. So that's how those numbers are
12:08 | directly ded. It's not a projection to say in 30 years then we're going to have the exact same tax rate.
12:15 | So that column is what is our assessment. the school will increase every year.
12:23 | I'm sorry. I said that that will be our assessment from the school every year. So if we took an average of the grand total column, it looks like 50 600,000 a year maybe.
12:33 | Yeah, I mean you could take you could take an average but then again there are a lot of variables that are involved in that equation. Um so you can use that I
12:42 | guess as kind of a general guideline but again a lot of variables are for our planning. We're looking at other things like so this is 600,000 would be a safe Yes.
12:51 | Y next slide if there are no more questions. This is Dudley if you can pass on that.
12:59 | And we will have a full breakdown of what's not included of the projects that are listed as MSBA eligible. That'll be
13:07 | provided in the final deck um which actually should be completed and published tomorrow. Um that's the one piece we don't have in there. The other
13:14 | piece we don't have included in the presentation but will be provided. We have frequently asked questions. doument
13:21 | that you can provide or that we can provide during the presentation that will hopefully get ahead of some of the major questions that will be on voters
13:29 | minds. Um so again, I'll get that out to you as well. So I'm happy to answer any short-term questions you may have for now.
13:38 | Um as far as moving ahead from this ask, so your the vote on this is the end of September.
13:47 | September 29th, Tuesday, correct?
13:52 | And I thought I saw somewhere and just for my own information, this this is a this is going to be between the two
13:59 | towns. It's going to be done on popular vote.
14:01 | It's a combined majority vote. Yes. So if one town wasn't it wasn't done like that last time.
14:08 | Yes, it was in 2022. Yes. Oh, I thought why why did I think if if for some reason if Dudley passed didn't
14:16 | I think you're thinking about the feasibility study for MSBA.
14:18 | Oh, they might capital plan. Yeah.
14:24 | And that's again very important for me to stress is that all of these projects that are involved in this capital request are not MSBA eligible. So again,
14:32 | it would be a combined majority vote between the two.
14:35 | Correct. What makes the project or an item not MSBA approved?
14:41 | It's so that's a long question. Um there isn't a quick easy answer to that. If you know if you explore MSBA's website,
14:50 | they give a full detailed breakdown. Um but again, it's certain systems fall under um one of two categories within MSBA.
15:01 | They have either the core program or an accelerated repair program. Within each of those two major programs under MSBA,
15:09 | they have what's considered their list of qualifying projects. So again, we would we take this list of our total
15:17 | capital projects um and our total projects that are listed on the facility condition assessment and we went through and we individually verified each
15:24 | project for MSBA eligibility to try to help out with that. Uh so for example, Heritage because we're
15:33 | everything's under safety uh looking at the new phone system. You could you could argue that that would fall under MSBA, but MSBA wants to see that you're
15:40 | continuing to improve your facilities when you enter into their grant program, but they're not qualifying means that there's no MSBA program just for
15:47 | telephones. So that's a global approach to us. That's the whole capital approach to us on this. [clears throat] So that's why it's you I appreciate the question.
15:55 | I just wanted to try to add a little bit more clarity to that as well.
15:59 | That's that's really heritage is really the not that this isn't concerning because that's a lot of money as well
16:06 | 600,000 average but the heritage is really the concern I think coming down
16:13 | for everybody right so just to let the people at home know what that building is either going to
16:20 | um be repaired or replaced and the word replaced has come up I've heard you say correct more through
16:28 | you the chair. MSBA uh you have to explore every option with MSBA. You can't pick which one you want. You can lean any way you want to lean, but MSBA
16:36 | requires you to do the numbers on either a raise the building and new construction or a update of the current facility. You have to go through all of
16:43 | those amalgamations of the process in order to be in their grant program.
16:47 | Can they make that determination whether or not it's raised or that's through the uh the feasibility study?
16:54 | Uh they may not. They don't make the communities will always make the final decision but they will make the recommendation and the what I've seen
17:02 | over time the cost variance makes the decision. So a raise and rebuild may be cheaper than a a um
17:11 | update to the facility. So obviously you would lean towards that. That's what feasibility does is that approaches those figures for you. Uh but a a um
17:19 | updated facility may be cheaper than a raise in reconstruction as well. So that's why that's why they force you to go through all of those pieces.
17:26 | And chair, just to further that point, when you do the feasibility study, they they globally look at all your assets, all your buildings in the district to
17:34 | see how that works in the puzzle. It's not just one building all on its own because they may look at do we shift, do
17:40 | we uh do we bolster here? So, it's it's it's a very robust assessment
17:47 | and and we and you were eligible or they did I hear somewhere that they put you on an emergency list for Heritage or
17:55 | We're not through the chair. We're not on an emergency list. No, but they are coming out September 16th. I sent an email inviting you to to attend. They're coming out to look at the building. Uh
18:03 | they have not officially invited us into any program or grant program or anything at this point in time. That would be the next step. We're at least in line at
18:10 | this point in time, but we have not been officially invited invited in.
18:13 | I was under the impression something got them moving on heritage a little quicker.
18:18 | Uh the school committee the the school committee actually would with submitting both sis for Shepherd Hill and Heritage.
18:23 | MSBA wanted us to prioritize wanted the school committee to prioritize and they they prioritized Heritage because of the uh the the obviously the need. You can
18:31 | see they prioritize Heritage over Shepherd Hill which is which is tough uh because Shepherd Hill obviously needs some support as well but uh the school
18:39 | committees want to prioritize Heritage for the submission of the statement of interest to MSBA and for the town scary one of the scary
18:46 | things about that is that [clears throat] whether it's a repair or a knockdown what MS what MSBA doesn't cover the town
18:55 | is responsible so that could be a 40 million to8 million through the chair. Yes. The way the
19:03 | regional agreement is is that Charlton is responsible for the child capital improvements of Charlton schools.
19:08 | Yes. So if it were to be a rebuild, that's to rebuild a school. I mean,
19:15 | you're looking at $100 million uh through the chair. I'd hate to put a number on anything at this point in time because for example, somebody may have
19:23 | the idea like I've had that maybe we put an addition on child middle school for a rebuild and then we use you don't have to construct all the other parts of the facility that are already in place. You
19:32 | know, there there are certain things that you'd have to look at. That's the whole feasibility part of that. So, I'd hate to put a number on anything right now, but yes, you're talking about millions of dollars. No question about
19:39 | it. North of 50 anyway no matter what we do whether it's a repair or what no matter what we do a lot of things can change the
19:47 | feasibility study and what the MSBA program is willing to commit we'd have to wait and see it would be too early to make any commitments
19:56 | and a time [clears throat] frame I I know it's it's time frame for that is through the chair if you're invited into
20:04 | the program it takes a couple of years just to get get set up you have to go through they have a very very uh scriptive process you have to go through. That's why with Shepherd Hill
20:13 | we started that in 2023 24 and that's we didn't make it all the way through. So that's why but it took us we remember we filed an S soi statement of interest for
20:22 | 14 years in a row for Shephard Hill before they actually invited us into the grant program. But it takes several years. I always estimate five five years
20:29 | before you actually put a shovel in the ground.
20:32 | But that's when we get invited in. We're not invited in yet. So we'd have to wait to get invited in. It would be close to five years before you'd actually a
20:39 | project could be could be potentially shovel ready.
20:42 | So this is the one we were invited in for the Shepherd Hill and it didn't pass correct to that.
20:47 | Yep. But we we submitted the so we're still working with MSBA to see where we can go with Shepherd Hill at some point in time. But again we we would after
20:56 | this report came out because in 2022 when we do and we really appreciate the town of Charlton uh supporting us with the roof at Charlton Middle School. It's you it was a huge investment. it was the
21:04 | right investment because of the number of leaks within that particular roof. Um but uh so so when we when we um when we
21:12 | were putting in for that we heard that we didn't really have a good assessment of our facilities and that's why we through that capital plan we did have that HAB come in and do an assessment of
21:19 | all of our facilities and again they've identified $135 million worth of work that should be done over we used years they used phases uh kind of one two
21:28 | three they try to expedite it we try to do what we do in public we try to expand on those that time frame a little bit as best as possible we identified this is
21:36 | reallying a lot of safety and health of the buildings at this point in time.
21:41 | I actually have that report up that I took a screenshot of. So out of the
21:49 | out of all the repairs that are needed in scope one, scope one is the first
21:56 | column two to five years or actually right now scope one is now.
22:04 | Um, if I take out Heritage, that's actually not new. There's $43 million in now.
22:14 | You're only asking for 11. So, there's another 30 million that's going to come up.
22:21 | You'll be here in front of us again after this 11 looking for another 30 million.
22:25 | So, through the chair, don't forget that the associate report uh as as thorough as it is does not account for what could and could not be eligible.
22:34 | application. So, we're doing our due diligence to make sure that we uh kind of go in a two-prong approach. One would be non-eligible uh repairs and
22:43 | maintenance uh for capital that we that we feel are prudent and responsible um and that were presented by Mr. Dantis
22:51 | and Mr. Lamar tonight um and through committee and subcommittee over the duration of the the previous months. And
22:58 | then the second uh prong is to is to take the track of the MSBA which we are currently um working with for example
23:06 | heritage uh where we the school committee uh prioritized as our state of interest with heritage. So um we are
23:15 | tackling every approach we can but that's why when you look at that phase one phase two phase three um that number is not coinciding with what you're that
23:24 | presentation. Did I did I speak that correctly?
23:27 | But then the only MS MSDA would only come in for Heritage or Shepherd Hill.
23:34 | You could do accelerated repair programs under that are not in the core program which would be different um different kinds of projects. So it's not as cut
23:43 | and dry as a whole building. It could be for example a roof or it could be so that's why we are pursuing every option with due diligence
23:51 | out of this 48 million. trying to figure out what's going what could potentially come up on top of the 11th so through the chair if you if you go to
23:59 | our website under finance um budget and finance budget and finance page uh there's a there's a box that says capital you can
24:07 | click on that it has all the information has all the details and all the information and that'll have the full facilities condition assessment and the per school
24:14 | breakdown of each project that we're asking for for non MSBI eligibility they're all numbered so you You can see
24:22 | number project correlates to number project in the facility condition assessment. Um and again you'll see on a
24:30 | per project b breakdown what is MSBA eligible and what is not currently or what we're not asking for for capital.
24:38 | Um and you'll notice a lot of the uh the higher dollar amount scope of work projects are MSBA eligible. So, for
24:46 | example, um, Heritage, uh, the biggest price tag on heritage is exterior. Um, that is not, uh, that is MSBA eligible,
24:55 | I'm sorry. Um, so while it looks like we are requesting a relatively small amount for Heritage, we are hoping and hopeful,
25:03 | uh, that the majority of those costs will be picked up through MSBA.
25:09 | Yeah. What I'm getting at is but yeah through through the chair if I could try to answer your question.
25:13 | Uh that's what it's I'm going to say something that doesn't sound right but we that's why we had a conservative approach to the 135 million
25:20 | that was put out there or the 40 40 plus million that you're talking about in phase one. That's why we looked at it from every angle we possibly could and reduced it to what do we really need? We
25:28 | we took their scopes and we expanded those to like fiveyear increments versus them saying this year one to three one one year one to three years and you know
25:36 | right after three to five years something like that. So we're looking at this over a 15-year period, but we're trying to be very, again, I'm going to it's going to sound funny, but we're trying to be very conservative with our
25:44 | ask. $11 million doesn't feel conservative in any way. Um, but that's what we are instead of asking for the 50 million. So, that 30 million you talked about could be either grant funded in
25:53 | some way or we're just going to wait another five years for that. It's not we didn't see it as something that needed to be done right now, even though they did.
26:00 | But you could be coming back because you're still 20 million short even if I take out Heritage and in Shepherd Hill
26:08 | through the chair. You could that we're 120 million short.
26:11 | No, but I'm Let's just stick with the 20 million [laughter] after the 11. I'm not I'm being conservative here, too. That's No, no. I'm just saying I'm just I'm trying I'm trying to give you I know
26:19 | what your question you're asking. I'm trying to answer it. We we tried our best to try to only present what we what we really need right now in like the
26:26 | first fiveyear phase of this of that their scopes.
26:29 | So, we've spent a lot of time on all of their information. They're the professionals in this. We are not architects. So, we we try to do that.
26:36 | We've worked capital sub with school committee has worked on that and tried to narrow it down to what do we need right now uh without trying to u overlap
26:44 | with MSBA too much without trying to overlap with with other finances that are going on in our community. So it is a big ask. I don't get me wrong. That's
26:51 | why I mean it's going to sound funny, but we tried to really try to bring it down. The 30 million may not come as 30 million. It may come as something else after. We don't have that. And I would
27:00 | expect that the community would want us to re reook at our engineering plan and associates and what was done there and see if there's any updates to that based off of because we do things yeartoear.
27:10 | We don't I I want to be clear to the community. We will get points with MSBA because we do have good custodians that work hard on our facilities and make them look the best that they possibly can. So we do do things over the years.
27:20 | Uh Joe will tell you that we've invest money each year into our facilities in some way. So that may change that a little bit as well, but we try to only bring in you bring to you what we think
27:29 | is really not desperately but really needed right now.
27:33 | But I get your question and taking MSBA out of the equation completely
27:41 | over the course of this 15 year alone, are you going to be coming to us for The
27:48 | odds are probably pretty high. You will another 11 million or another 15 million just by looking at this.
27:55 | It I mean it it may um it's hard to predict what'll happen with the facilities moving forward. Um but I can
28:02 | say we are reaching a point where these aged facilities and um you know the mechanical functionality may hit a
28:09 | breaking point at some point. We do the best we can working within our budget to be able to address health and safety concerns within these buildings on an
28:18 | annual basis. Um but again, we don't know what problems may or may not arise, what may become more of a priority over
28:27 | time because it's um ever evolving and continually changing. Um so these our ask right now is um paramount for health
28:36 | and safety of the building itself. And again, the projects that are not that immediate scope, we did try to, as
28:45 | Superintendent Lamar said, um, you know, span that over a larger period of time.
28:51 | Yeah, I'm not arguing the need. I'm trying to predict the future the best we can. And how big how often are these big hits going to happen? That's need. I
29:00 | mean, yeah, wear and tear isn't anybody's fault.
29:08 | You guys have any questions?
29:15 | And you're going to be just for people at home know September 3rd September 3rd Charlton Middle School Auditorium 6:30
29:22 | p.m. I will have this PowerPoint that you saw tonight in addition to um other documents that'll be provided ahead of
29:30 | the meeting. If there are any questions at all, I'm happy to respond if wants to reach out.
29:37 | And if that is approved by looking at your calendar, we have we could potentially meeting if we decided to
29:45 | exclude this it would be the election that under consideration.
29:54 | Okay. Just last through the chair, a reminder again, the vote is for this for this capital, which is a majority vote between the two towns in totality, is
30:03 | September 29th. Tuesday, September 29th, and it's from 8 to It's not It's not your typical hour. So, I just want to make sure.
30:12 | I Let me verify. I believe it's 8 to 4.
30:14 | I think it's an 8 to 4 vote or 8 to 5:00, something like that. It's not your typical Oh, it's not an evening vote either. It's not an it's not an 8 to 8.
30:22 | I'll verify, but 8 to 4, I believe. That's September 29th.
30:34 | And then Dudley is going they're tagging on their over.
30:39 | Dudley is tagging on their override on the same correct. Yes. Their operational town override.
30:48 | Okay, gentlemen. Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for your time.
31:00 | And next we have the community center feasibility committee
31:10 | to pull the poweroint presentation that you would like me to pull up the power presentation.
31:24 | You just have to tell me when to scroll.
31:37 | I'm here as an advisor. I was not on the committee.
31:42 | You guys know Michelle director not on the committee just in and Stockwell. I'm the chair of the
31:50 | I'm Pat Stockwell, chair of the senior community center feasibility committee.
31:56 | Bruce Menon, I serve on the feasibility committee and Kathleen Dery is also here from the feasibility committee.
32:04 | And I also sent you guys a full copy of the Lero report because I think in your agenda packet there's only a couple pages in there memo so you can find all
32:12 | the gory details of the uh and Andrew did send that to us a couple of weeks ago. Okay. So you have had time. Good. That's good.
32:20 | All right. So the first first slide um basically just looking back in time in 2008 the last time we did a master plan
32:29 | um they were talk already talking about the need for a senior center at that point in time. Then in 2022
32:37 | um it came up again. It was actually a citizens petition that went on the warrant and they had said that they had
32:44 | literally been looking for a santo since 1993. So we're really kind of bursting at the seams at this point. So next
32:52 | slide a little bit of the history. The center feasibility committee was created in July 2022 by the select board with the
33:00 | charge to develop a plan for a new senior community center. So I've been on this committee for for four years now.
33:07 | Um I think Baja actually was on the committee with us back then. Um after that we we looked at various properties.
33:15 | Um we discussed them to make a decision uh and put out an RFP for tear down and a new build at the arts and activities
33:23 | center over on Dressa Hill Road beginning at Dressa Hill over here. Um, we then interviewed several architectural firms, I think maybe like
33:31 | six, seven, something like that in April of 2023 and we chose T2 architecture.
33:38 | Uh, we held various site visits. We went to see the T2 municipal buildings, some other senior centers. Um, and then in
33:45 | April of 2024, we got the final report from them and the committee decided that the $21.8 million project was not feasible.
33:55 | So during 2025, we continued looking. We found a commercial property over at the trolley crossing. We tooured it and researched it. We even like drew a floor
34:04 | plan up for what we wanted in there. But unfortunately, the owners were unwilling to work with a municipal timeline of town meeting and election.
34:14 | Uh so by mid 2025, we toured the Dresser Hill property, better known as the furniture store, and we decided that
34:22 | we'd pursue it. and we acquired feasibility funds at the fall special town meeting this past fall special town meeting. Uh and then Lero Hill was
34:31 | chosen by Andrew to do a feasibility plan with options for either the Dresser Hill property or a town hall addition
34:39 | and renovation. So that's where we are now. The next page just some demographics of Charlton. Our current population is 13,737.
34:50 | In 1996 we had 1,200 seniors. In 2008 we had 251 seniors which was a 71%
34:58 | increase. And today in 2026 we have 3,960 seniors which was a 93% increase during
35:05 | that time period from 2008 to 26. Um and those numbers came from Central Mass Regional Planning Commission and the
35:13 | UMass Boston Center for Social and Demographic Research on Aging. And if you notice, we have 55 over 55 in here
35:20 | as well, but um technically seniors are 60 and over. So, as you can see, we have
35:28 | another,00 seniors coming up in the next few years to add to that number.
35:35 | Next one, why do we need a center? The present center is inadequate. It cannot fully accommodate walkers and wheelchairs. It's tenuously compliant.
35:44 | I'm sure you've all been down there.
35:46 | There's stairs and ramps to get up to the bathrooms. That door is not automatic, so it's difficult for people with, you know, disability issues or
35:55 | even just generally for older people uh to get through there. Um we can't park more than 13 cars and only five of those
36:02 | are handicap spots. And people have we did a survey and people literally came back and said, "I'd like to go to the senior center, but I'm not going to
36:09 | fight for parking up there." Um we also can't hold concurrent programs. This center is less than a the size of the
36:17 | recommended state guidelines and those guidelines are five to six square feet per senior. So you do the math and even
36:26 | at that 21,780 ft neither one of these project none of the projects we looked at would even come close to that.
36:34 | Um, we also can't offer any kind of privacy for nurse visits, taxes, Medicare, um, even private consultation
36:44 | if the staff needed to meet in a setting, say with the family or outside consultants or something. There were several people. There's no conference
36:50 | center and uh, it's difficult to meet in those two offices. They're right in the hallway where everybody's like coming in and out all the time. They also cannot
37:00 | offer the scope of classes. um for the various capabilities. You have, you know, younger seniors who can do a lot
37:08 | more things than older people with other disabilities.
37:12 | We also can't offer most outdoor activities. Occasionally, they go out on the town common um or risk their lives
37:19 | going across Main Street to go behind the that's an activity center. Um also, we don't have an office for the
37:27 | activities assistant. Basically, she has a desk that's thrown in a storage activity room.
37:33 | and we can't properly store and secure food and medical equipment. Um, which, you know, leaving it out in the open, things can get lifted obviously.
37:42 | And then lastly, um, it doesn't provide for the additional space that's needed by the municipal offices. And if we another thing with the town hall
37:50 | renovation is if we would do that, then there'd be a lot of disruption at the town hall. Where where would the senior program go?
37:57 | Even people that are not part of the senior center probably would get disrupted by that.
38:03 | Next one. The next one is just a the mission statement. I'm sure you guys have seen it before, so I won't I won't read it to you. Everybody knows what the
38:12 | senior center does. There's a lot of good stuff for a lot of people. And actually on that that last slide with the demographics, our database shows
38:20 | that there's about 1150 people that actually use the center for one thing or another.
38:25 | 1150 50. And if you take that number and you multiply it out by the state guidelines, it still doesn't even come close to what I mean. It's way more than what we have downstairs.
38:35 | And that's people that doesn't mean they're going there every day. You know, we have 1150 people going there every day. That means there are people that are using this the services.
38:44 | Some of them do come all the time and and and others want to find out information, you know, about how to sign up for Medicare or whatever, you know,
38:52 | different different things. So they may go to a specific entertainment thing and not come back for anything else. But this
38:59 | I think I think that's the question one of the biggest questions I have is is around the square footage and how many people actually why you need a building that big.
39:10 | That's how many people actually attend.
39:14 | You know in my opinion it something should be done.
39:19 | Um you know when you get into that wants versus needs thing. Um,
39:29 | something needs to be done, but when you get to a certain size, you get to a certain dollar amount. And what what
39:36 | could you do? Could you could you be satisfied with half of that 13 million?
39:42 | And we can get into that a little bit later. Could you find a solution around 6 million rather than 13 million? I just think the square footage is I I'm not convinced you need a building that big.
39:54 | I'm one of five, but that's a question.
39:58 | Clarification for the 1150 users. Is is that a day, a month, a week, a year, just individual users?
40:05 | That's just individuals from town that have used services over the course of a year.
40:10 | Yeah. So, we've got people that's okay. Um, we've got folks that
40:17 | you you don't see that we certainly don't have 1150 in that center in a given month or anything like that.
40:24 | However, um, there's folks that we we we serve that you you just don't see. We handle uh we handle elder neglect,
40:32 | fraud, abuse. Um we we handle all kinds of situations with um uh homeless issues
40:39 | or uh hoarding or um uh all all kinds of things, horribly dark things that we don't put on the Facebook page and say
40:48 | this is what we did today. You know, some things are so incredibly sad. Or we we went this this month we went to a
40:56 | hospital for a man that did not have any family and he was passing away and we held his hand um while he passed. Um
41:03 | there's things that we do that are not uh cheery and happy and sunshine and flowers and um they are vital services
41:13 | for for elderly folks. Um you know housing issues, food uh scarcity issues,
41:20 | um just loneliness, isolation, um all kind the durable medical equipment for which is like walkers and
41:29 | wheelchairs and rollolators and canes and crutches and all that. It's in a dungeon, which is you have to get through the ladies room in order to get
41:37 | and it's literally it looks like a dungeon. I'm not trying to be dramatic with that. Um, it's all back there. Um,
41:44 | this week we had to wait for three or four ladies to use the bathroom in order for me to serve another lady that was
41:51 | trying to get a wheelchair for her father. So, I mean, it's just it's just kind of incredulous that the the senior
42:00 | center kind of looks like a a bomb shelter a little bit. Um, and I I would like if it was my mom or dad living in a
42:08 | community, um, I would like them to go to a center that looks um like the town
42:15 | cares about its seniors. And the way it looks right now, it looks like they are not even secondass citizens. And I just
42:24 | the population is so large in the town now for seniors that we just need um a
42:31 | building that is adequate for their for their needs because they have they have needs and you may not see like the all
42:40 | the up bright and shiny parts of it like the dark stuff that we do but the seniors have um they want to go to a
42:48 | place that they're proud of and feel good about. And when you build a new senior center or renovate a new senior center um state will tell you that usage quadruples. That's the standard.
42:59 | Yeah.
43:01 | So, um the next slide basically is all the things they do. So, I'm just going to kind of skip that. Um then this came
43:09 | from our survey. We actually did a survey that we sent out to every senior household in the town. Um and we also
43:17 | have an online survey going on right now that's more for the community. um that will end the 1st of September. And I
43:25 | mean this is showing you the various reasons that people use the center come to the center. And as you can see to see their friends is at the top because it's
43:34 | proven in study after study that seniors seniors who socialize have a higher quality of life and they live longer. That's right.
43:43 | So these those were the surveys that you had the paper ones that you had you were handing out that went out to the seniors. The paper ones went to the seniors. The online one basically is the rest of the community.
43:57 | Um, okay. So, the next page basically is just a quick um comment on the community center. Presently, the community
44:04 | utilizes the library, the arts and activity center, and the graange when appropriate and available to hold events. And available is a biggie because the library just is like packed
44:13 | all the time. It's really difficult. And luckily, they allow 11 senior center to go over there too because this overflow that happens over there.
44:23 | Sure. Go ahead.
44:24 | We have to put our yoga one of our We have two yoga classes over at the library because it's a huge class and we
44:31 | can't we just don't have the space for it. So, we have our yoga. There's people that come to our the senior center activities that have probably never met
44:39 | some of the other seniors because they're over at the library. I've got two yoga classes at the library and I
44:46 | have a threaded together group at the library. Um and it it's uh it's just challenging. We also have had you know
44:55 | arts as as Pat had indicated activities at the arts and um activity center because we just don't have a place to have like a you know a little campfire
45:03 | and a you know live music here at the at the center here. So we're we've been spreading we've had stuff at the Graange before. We just are kind of scattered
45:11 | all over town because we just can't fit fit the need at the center. So when you say you don't see people at the center, it's because we're we're on satellite offices.
45:20 | That's what I was just going to say.
45:22 | Which actually shows there's more people using it than you think. They're just not also they're making use of unutilized underutilized spaces in the library as well.
45:30 | There isn't any underutilized space in the library.
45:34 | Maybe as an I mean have you ever tried to use Dexter Hall and it's not available? Yes.
45:39 | Many times they're very popular. You know, they call it the jewel of Charlton and it we'd like to put another jewel in the crown.
45:48 | Yeah. And and we'd be remiss if we didn't thank them for that. Wonderful to us. Do a lot for us.
45:54 | Our New Year's Eve party is over there every year because it's elegant and it's so the name change from this on the Charlton Senior Center building
46:01 | committee is now building and community center committee. Well, originally when the select board gave us the charge for
46:09 | this, it was community center. It was called a community center. And in other towns where they call it a community center, it's actually a senior community center, but that's just a mouthful.
46:19 | Oh, semantic. So, it was meant Yeah.
46:22 | And then and then the then the activity center was tied into it at one point and that's where you Yeah, we'll get into that. Um, anyway,
46:29 | so the committee determined that the town would benefit based on the survey feedback that we got. The town benefit from a space that was earmarked for
46:36 | community activities specifically. So, people are looking for that. Um, the center proposal is a proposal to
46:44 | purchase and renovate the existing Chelton furniture building in town and to provide our seniors with a new safe, accessible, modern, and efficient building to provide them with the best
46:52 | senior programs we can offer. And in addition, this proposal will offer an opportunity to expand offerings to the greater community after hours and our
47:01 | weekends. So, the way we actually tours of other were very similar and the way they work it is it's clear that during
47:07 | the day Monday through Thursday that's for the seniors and and not for the community but that after hours and
47:16 | weekends events can be scheduled and you know that would all have to be that's details that would all have to be worked out after the fact that's nothing that
47:23 | we plan for at this point in time. Yeah, if I could also add that um in the last community that I lived in when we built the senior community center, it was
47:32 | designed to have access in the evening, school committee moved their meetings there. Uh a number of town uh committees
47:39 | and commissions meet there and there's also activities for the greater community that take place there. And that's, you know, we had the experience
47:48 | where I lived where we tried to do a senior center twice, took to the voters and got turned down. When we conceptualized it as a senior community
47:57 | center where the community had access to it, it passed by 70%. Because it's it's a need.
48:05 | Okay. So the next slide basically the project planning you've already talked about getting feasibility funds and that we engage.
48:13 | Um the center that we have is currently located in the lower level of town hall and is approximately 4,400 square ft.
48:24 | the senior center can be accommodated within the town hall longterm or whether relocation to an alternate facility would better meet the current future
48:31 | program needs. As part of this effort, the committee identified the Dressa Hill property as an alternate location and
48:39 | sought to understand the base building upgrades, code implications, and spatial feasibility required to convert that facility for senior sun use. This study
48:48 | also built upon prior feasibility work that was completed by T2 in 2024 and we reviewed a sidebyside comparison of the
48:56 | options with a potential town hall addition and renovation effort. Uh the committee agrees with the lero hill
49:03 | recommendation if you looked at the report that the dresser hill road property is the best solution. So and the council on also
49:11 | the council yeah council on Asian voted that as well. Um this is just some some shots out of Lero. If you look at Lero,
49:19 | you can see all the details. This one's the the site plan. Um Dresser Hill Road is at the top. And and so as you can
49:27 | see, there's a if you go there and you look at the building on the lefth hand side, there's a white building. Kind of looks like a house.
49:34 | That's going to be torn down. That was determined to be not salvageable. So that would be torn down. So we'd have parking all the way around. And on that same side where that building is now,
49:43 | that little that you see would be a portico. So, you know, people can drive in under that and get in and out in the weather. Then down at the bottom, that
49:51 | rectangle that's down closer to the red lines, red squiggly lines, that would be a little bumpout addition that would be
49:58 | for mechanical HVAC, whatever. Um, and then it also gives us some space for outdoor activities, obviously, green
50:06 | space. And on the right there, um, there's the potential for patio and screen porch. So, do a lot more with outdoor activities.
50:15 | If I can if I can also add to that, we've established a Friends of the Charleston Senior Community Center group and at our last meeting voted to try to help subsidize the patio.
50:27 | So, we'll be raising funds to go towards that.
50:31 | So, the procurement would be the entire It's 2.2 acres. Is that what I I thought it was 3.8, but I believe Lero said it's 2.2 for this. And that could
50:39 | have been after it got split because the building on the left existing building that's like some electric company.
50:46 | The building Yeah. If I'm looking at the building on the right from here, the building on the left is going to be the building on the left is going to be Yeah.
50:58 | That's part of the plan that that would be demolished and made into parking. A little bit green space over that salvageable.
51:10 | Did Did you have another question?
51:11 | No. No. Go ahead. You can go on. I do have my cover.
51:17 | Okay. The next one is just a quick look at the floor plan. Um, and as you can see, the actual program space is 9,000 square feet. So, nowhere near that that
51:25 | number of what's recommended by the state, but more than twice the space that we have today, which will will go a long way. What was the number?
51:34 | The original was downstairs is 4,400 and this is 9,000 that the state was recommending.
51:39 | Oh, it was 5 5 between five and six square feet per senior. So you take we took like 5.5 and multiplied it by
51:48 | 3,960, it ends up being about 25,000 square feet.
51:51 | We'd be we'd be buying Shepherd Hill at that. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy.
51:56 | We have to get to a real a real that and that's what we're attempting to do.
51:59 | We're attempting to get to something that's reasonable. So the the total square footage of the entire building would be 135 to 14
52:08 | square feet. Um the next This basically came straight out of the L report um where they were doing the
52:16 | comparisons of the furniture store to the town hall. Their evaluation criteria, program fit, accessibility,
52:23 | site functionality, operational efficiency, feature flexibility, and the estimated construction cost. And
52:32 | I'm sure you're looking at the bottom number [clears throat] first. So 11.6 million for the furniture store and 10.7. So it is a little bit less
52:40 | whatever that comes to 890,000 800,000 whatever whatever it is it's not a lot less and and it it also
52:48 | doesn't consider whether the systems in the town hall can handle like what they would need to do that addition
52:56 | it doesn't include purchasing the property you that 11.6 doesn't include the purchase or we're not up to that yet. The purchase of the property.
53:05 | Yeah, it doesn't. We're not up to that.
53:07 | This is just for the renovation of the property.
53:11 | So, the next one is basically some some estimates that we had done with the purchase being 2 million, the renovation being 12 million for a total of 14.
53:22 | Um the annual debt service a little over a million and the average tax increase for tax pay would be $251.
53:30 | So with demolition of those buildings, there was one building you said. So we paying $2 million hypothetically speaking for the land.
53:37 | Um this is for the this is for the property with the buildings that we have to demolish to pay demolishing the one building on the on the left.
53:47 | On the one the smaller one on the blue one. the the small one on the left. It's not really that small, but the one on the facing it from Joseph Hill is the
53:55 | one on the left, the white building. So, the big building, the furniture building, show stays stays that How big is that space?
54:02 | I want to say that's about 12,000 to 13,000 square feet. It's in that range.
54:11 | Thank you. Okay.
54:13 | Now, the next page, potential cost reductions. The actual recent quote that we got was 1.8 for that property and I
54:22 | think actually originally when they were trying to sell it was like 2.2. So it's come come down quite a bit. Um the
54:30 | actual re LO renovation estimate as you saw from the last page is 11.6 for a total of 125. So 125 instead of 14
54:37 | million. Um and then Bruce already mentioned the 501c3 and they are actually official 501c3. So
54:46 | they'll be eligible to apply for grants and whatnot in addition to fundraisers that they're already doing. Um in the
54:52 | middle here among the the best the ESA citizens advisory committee and
55:00 | um if we were to do if we were to do something like a a solar panel best operation over there
55:09 | and eliminate all the HVAC that you know you know all of that for heating and cooling. um that would be something we
55:16 | could take off the top because basically we we're talking with them about the kinds of things we can get back for the community and that's one of the things
55:24 | we've talked about what can we get for the senior center um and this specifically actually so I don't know if it would be all of it some portion of it
55:30 | but it would not be insignificant um and then the and then hopefully we're going to negotiate a pilot with them and
55:38 | if you look at other towns like Carver Carver has a best um they ended up with a 1.6 6 million pilot.
55:45 | I don't I don't know if it's really up to the This is why I'm a little confused on that. On the um on the building committee on the senior center building committee negotiating a pilot.
55:54 | We're not it's not the senior center building committee. I just happen to be on the citizens advisory committee for the ESA.
56:02 | So I just know that we're attempting to get things for the town and so this was a possibility that down the road,
56:11 | especially the pilot down the road that could help for the model because obviously it's not going to happen no matter what happens. It's not going to
56:18 | happen like tomorrow. This is something that they probably wouldn't even break ground for like three to five years. So,
56:26 | but it's something that the pilot piece of it is something the town would be negotiating. I assume you'd have like lawyers that would be specialized in
56:35 | this to negotiate that to get the maximum you can.
56:38 | This board hasn't even taken a position on any of that. I just have a question if do these costs include demolition disposal
56:47 | because if not that's going to be additional that cost as far as I could tell from looking at the report um it it does cover that
56:55 | includes the demolition and disposal of all the everything they take out that's in the 2 million purchase no that's in the renovation for the
57:04 | renovation but that also doesn't include let's say you said that three to something years to even get to this point So that's also
57:12 | the deterioration of the building. We might ended up demolishing them all.
57:16 | Oh, well, I'm not saying we're going to wait three to five years. What I'm what I'm saying is that if we were to pass this and we have to get a loan to pay for it, we'd have to stop paying for it.
57:24 | You know, obviously whenever the thing was built and ready to go a couple years from now. And but the best piece of it, if that happens, is going to be down the
57:32 | road. That would be down the road. Some kind of a pilot payment that would allow us to to help pay for these things. Not just this, anything else we need to pay for like schools.
57:42 | That was my next question to the will seniors accept the tax increase.
57:46 | What makes that property of two acres worth $2 million?
57:51 | If that doesn't include the demolition, I mean, it does include the demolition renovation.
57:58 | Oh, the two it's really 1.8 million. And I mean, so we're effectively paying for the land in a building that we're not going to
58:05 | use. So we can then tear it down. You only want the land.
58:09 | No, it's only one building that's being torn down. Two buildings there.
58:11 | There's two buildings, but I' I've read the 74 page um
58:19 | report. I did. And it's you're pretty you're in through the renovation. It does go into great detail. You're you're pretty
58:26 | it's a steel building. You're pretty much knocking it down. You're leaving the steel frame. That's pretty much it.
58:31 | It is a major and it does say that it's a major side. It's new walls. It's new septic. It's well it's
58:38 | so we have you are in fact you are probably paying 1.8 million for 2.2
58:45 | acres of land because it's just the steel frame is all that's left.
58:48 | We all we all been there. We've been there.
58:51 | Oh yeah. You're going to design a building that's designed for the seniors with certain um color schemes that for
58:58 | for low vision. Um it's going to be designed for the seniors. It's not going to be just kind of something that's kind of
59:06 | any building we will build will be designed for seniors. There will be a senior center sort of furniture store as
59:13 | a great opportunity for the seniors and the community.
59:16 | It's not a question that and I even said earlier it's not something should be done.
59:22 | It's um but but the I and after reading that report and looking at it I question the
59:29 | cost and where we are looking to Your ass now, your ass tonight is 12 and a half. Is what?
59:37 | 12. 12.5 million. That's what you're going to ask us.
59:41 | Yeah. To put it on the We're asking to put it on the warrant a question to purchase the an article on the warrant to purchase the building
59:50 | the property for 1.8 and hopefully to pay for the renovation as well because it doesn't a lot of good building without the money for the renovation.
1:00:00 | $200,000 a year and then another almost 200k a year.
1:00:04 | I don't understand how you want to put that on the warrant.
1:00:07 | You can't you can't put $12 million on the town warrant. 2 million for two acres. I know. I know.
1:00:15 | I think I ask maybe Andrew put it as a ballot question.
1:00:19 | Well, it would be both. It would be both. You'd have to have an article in the town meeting and then we have before we have all the back and forth.
1:00:25 | Maybe for our next meeting, Andrew can come back to us with a proper timeline of how it would have to be because we
1:00:34 | can go back and forth all night on this, right?
1:00:36 | But until we have Okay, if we want to take this route or this route, this is
1:00:44 | the first step, second step, third step, what it would require because some votes require vote as well as ballot vote. Let Andrew come back with okay.
1:00:55 | We should know this. Yeah.
1:00:58 | Before we really go down that rabbit hole. Absolutely. I agree with that, Mr.
1:01:02 | Chair. There are multiple different tracks that you could take if this was the the approach that you would want to take for funding. As we mentioned, $12
1:01:09 | million, $14 million project is obviously something that we have to borrow for. And um and borrowing doing
1:01:16 | that, you know, that's its own specific article. It's not just transferring money, but also because of the size of it, you're going to be potentially
1:01:25 | looking for a debt exclusion vote. That debt exclusion vote needs to be tied um you know with that funding with that
1:01:32 | funding authorization, but then kind of what gets you to the best possible point of selling the project. So, you know,
1:01:40 | what we're going off is a feasibility study. If we go back to our approach for the fire station, we had an estimate of
1:01:47 | $15 million at the time, but we did feel like we had enough information to really get it to sell it at the um, you know, at a ballot vote. So, it was an
1:01:56 | incremental step. We put $500,000 toward furthering that study design, getting more finite, you know, actual
1:02:04 | construction documents, and then, uh, putting it out for a larger project which ended up being you know 18.5 at the end of the day.
1:02:12 | Uh so we we're not going to do that if we don't right and I'm just saying this is this is one one one approach you could take you know where something like this is
1:02:20 | saying like all right we've determined that this is the property that we want to go for we want to acquire and design and then right I see it's like almost like the
1:02:28 | school it's like okay we we have that information but we have now homework to do to come back to the next meeting with okay
1:02:36 | then this would be the first where this would be where we should be going first in this process instead of just
1:02:44 | everyone's just throwing stuff against the wall right now.
1:02:46 | Well, I I'm I'm curious what the actual ask is for town.
1:02:52 | Well, purchasing the purchasing the land with the building and and all the renovation
1:03:00 | cost that bottom line 14 million which actually is a little high because like I said it's 1.8 They're asking 10 point I mean 11.6.
1:03:11 | Yeah that's not a town meeting.
1:03:14 | I mean something has to go in the town meeting town meeting would authorize debt exclusion vot still need to go to a ballot
1:03:21 | right it still has to go through multiple votes including the ballot.
1:03:25 | We just want the opportunity for you the democratic process so that for the town voters to to to make a decision as to
1:03:33 | whether or not they want to when we did the um uh I don't know if Pat is get to it, but I'm sure you are. The um the
1:03:41 | percentages of all of the the surveys of the seniors as well as the the community surveys, they're all trending in the
1:03:48 | same direction. They all support the the um the senior center even with the tax increase. They are coming back like
1:03:56 | but where they explained that that could potentially be both say those numbers will come up to about 250 top of my head
1:04:03 | 250 tax increase per household. That's without the schools, right? And that's you just want the the the town.
1:04:10 | So that would be a huge both will be let's just say deb exclusions, right? So we understand that process. So where those people are voting and saying they
1:04:16 | in favor 93% were they in favor of both tax increases or this is just specific to understanding of the of the of the community center. You see what I'm saying?
1:04:26 | That's a big that's a big increase for seniors especially on the fixed budget and they're all and they're all voting it. But we just want them to have the opportunity to to have their say on it.
1:04:37 | You know, either way, yeah, democratic process like you're right. We asked specifically about a community senior center. Um we didn't say, "Hey, did you
1:04:46 | know that this is going on?" There's always going to be other irons in the fire always. Um the seniors have been trying to get a a center since 93. Um
1:04:55 | you your your board and in your your wisdom appointed the the feasibility um committee um to do its diligence. Um the
1:05:04 | town move the the 50,000 and um we're just another step in the it just has been a while since we had a big projects like that coming at once.
1:05:14 | Yeah.
1:05:14 | So that never happened.
1:05:16 | There's always going to be another iron in the fire and when you're municipality, you know, it's just so I I just feel like the seniors for us I I feel like they've they've been trying and trying and trying for decades.
1:05:27 | No, and we understand that. I think we all realize that this is a need. What I'm saying is especially seniors on a fixed budget Yes.
1:05:35 | They don't got to be excluded for the that exclusion tax increase for the schools.
1:05:39 | Yes, which we can argue all day long which is more important right at this moment.
1:05:42 | Well, it's we don't have to put it in us against them. It's everybody's got, you know, there's needs on and so many potentially both the DPW and all their
1:05:51 | vehicles. There's so many needs in the town. We we get that $14 million. Very similar ones.
1:05:56 | That's why I asked the schools if that was accurate. uh the thousand dollars is what they anticipate just in school funds to change tax rates and then the
1:06:04 | senior center was another right specifically. So I'm here with seniors like do they you know do I understand that I could be both hits at
1:06:13 | the same time on a they pay attention to town town finances they come they're the ones voting I know but you know
1:06:21 | they they are they are but they also elect us to um to be stewards of of the tax money
1:06:29 | that comes in right so they and and between the school committee between all the committees in this
1:06:37 | When the tax bills come out, out of all the committees, we're the only one that gets the phone calls and the emails from the from and from many seniors.
1:06:45 | I understand. I can't believe my taxes went up this.
1:06:48 | We hear it more and we're the ones that would take the heat if something goes bad.
1:06:51 | We're just looking for the democratic process to letty understand the democratic process, but but we're also being stewards.
1:06:59 | We're also going to question and I agree with Mike on this. We're paying John through the chair. Can you hear me Karen?
1:07:08 | Yeah, I one second.
1:07:10 | I wasn't sure I'm having and I apologize if this has already been said again
1:07:17 | I am Karen I you could just wait hold one second. I was just going to finish my thought. Oh, I'm sorry.
1:07:24 | Yeah, we were we were looking I mean we're looking at um bottom line here is we're looking to pay $2 million for 2.2
1:07:31 | acres of land. That's that's not land building that exists building
1:07:38 | the framework in the framework and I mean if you read the L report but it is a major renovation but it isn't just we're just beating a dead horse at this
1:07:47 | point we're just repeating ourselves okay I'm sorry go ahead
1:07:54 | thanks you can still hear me yeah y so again I serve on the committee in a non voting capacity representing the
1:08:02 | select board I want to commend the committee because they've really done their due diligence. I just want to reiterate and remind everyone that this
1:08:10 | has been on the books since 1993. A master plan is something that should be looked at and revisited and it never
1:08:17 | [snorts] came off the master plan. Um it's in our goals and objectives and the voters have spoken very clearly that
1:08:24 | they wanted to move forward and get have a chance to vote on it. And I I've always been of the mind we can all have
1:08:32 | our opinions and I respect But at the end of the day, I really like dealing with facts and figures versus
1:08:38 | feelings. And the reality is this this project needs to get off the starting off the starting line. And it is the
1:08:47 | voters who need to decide, not five of us in my opinion. Again, let the voters decide. They they voted overwhelmingly
1:08:55 | for that $50,000 to get to this point and to not proceed to allow the voters.
1:09:00 | And this is not a school versus you know, for our project of the city center community center project,
1:09:08 | there's two needs and let the voters have their say because they're the ones that's going to be put in the bill and I think we should not become like we shouldn't block that.
1:09:20 | Nobody said anything about blocking anything. Just want to put it out there.
1:09:24 | We're just having we're just having more questions.
1:09:29 | Okay. I have a couple more slides, but I mean the survey we can skip the one
1:09:35 | about the uh operating cost. Those are the numbers that we got from Ashley.
1:09:43 | Basically the operating cost increases as well. Um the senior the survey question the only ones we did were the
1:09:50 | ones about the tax increase. So basically Michelle has already told you what happened there. The seniors came back and said 93% if there was no new
1:09:57 | taxes, 81% said, you know, a small increase that they'd be willing to to pay a tax increase to get a new senior
1:10:05 | center. And then for the community, it's practically the same. 88% and 80% came back and said they didn't favor.
1:10:14 | How long was that survey available to people?
1:10:17 | Well, the one that we sent out was I mean, occasionally we're still getting things back. It was a couple months ago and we're still we're still getting them
1:10:25 | random ones back now. And then community survey is still it's still up. It's still and it's going to be probably another week. It's about 30 days. It was [clears throat] it was
1:10:33 | total just is this is this whole thing online for the community to see.
1:10:38 | It's in the All right. So So if it's online for people watching and again per Karen
1:10:46 | facts and figures and data just so that the public is aware the 93% in favor and
1:10:52 | 81% in favor are off survey responses of about a 100 survey responses. Yeah.
1:11:00 | The responses of 88 and 80% on whether they would accept a tax increase was only 35 people. So I just for clarity
1:11:09 | those watching this all this data should be online which means any resident who has a concern or an idea or a thought
1:11:18 | whether in favor or opposed all of this is available and they can go through it
1:11:25 | themselves through the chair the the there were actually more people that replied to this they just didn't answer those questions
1:11:33 | so only five people answered the answer the question. That's right. And and it's not a lot higher than that, but there were people that did did just skip those questions al together.
1:11:43 | But this is all available, so anyone can go and read all right. That's right.
1:11:50 | The next page is just supplemental information. There's things that I can get to you guys. Andrew has some of it.
1:11:55 | I believe we actually started putting together a website with more info we can we can share out there.
1:12:04 | So that's where we are next next [clears throat] steps. We had gone and talked to the finance committee and now we're here with you to figure out what we have to do next to get this in front of the people of Charlton.
1:12:17 | And I think what I' I'd like to add on that just quick is um when we did the budgets this year,
1:12:24 | there's a revenue increase projection every year for the year and the revenue
1:12:34 | Expected revenue increase for the town this year is $250,000. That's about a 2016 level.
1:12:44 | If you look at the last three or four year average, we've had a $3 million revenue increase every single year. And
1:12:51 | now that hockey sick is going down to $250,000.
1:12:55 | So keep that in mind when you're when you're looking at things like this. It's not this if this goes through and people
1:13:02 | have to There's not there's not a shovel in the ground for Amazon like there was before the fire station. You don't have two projects coming off like the fire
1:13:11 | station did. We had two debt exclusions that were that were ending was the library and highway bars the highway
1:13:19 | department. You don't have that. I mean the the the planets were really aligned for the um for the fire station. And now
1:13:27 | you're doing a $250,000 growth that's just about going to cover the cost of the utilities.
1:13:34 | Do you mind if I ask like why that is?
1:13:37 | Why is it dropping from 3 million to 250,000? I I can't I can't hear you.
1:13:41 | Why Why is it dropping from 3 million to 250,000?
1:13:46 | The revenue growth projection. Yeah, that's what the assessors used an extremely conservative projection knowing that the um Amazon
1:13:56 | new growth was ending which was extraordinary time. So we used a very conservative approach to budget around those are solidified
1:14:05 | within the next month. We'll get those numbers from the assessor as to what the actuals are. But we we do that prior to
1:14:14 | the latest drastic increase in new growth. The average was somewhere around $350,000, but we were able to tailor our budget to 250,000.
1:14:24 | any any growth over and above that is excess levy capacity. It's monies that we don't tax. So if we can develop a
1:14:31 | budget within that parameter, that's the number that we're going to use to try to to try to but just but just to put everybody on the same page as far as where the town
1:14:40 | it's the hockey stick pointed in the wrong direction right now.
1:14:45 | If I could just say for just a minute, if we had addressed this maybe back in 93 or or 2000, they were looking at
1:14:52 | about two million for a senior center back then. So the longer we wait, the price is just going to continue to escalate. That's all.
1:15:00 | I I appreciate that. I I never go the fear game. And honestly, not that I don't care about what it cost in 93, but I don't care what it cost in 93 because it's not 93.
1:15:10 | No, you you know my point.
1:15:13 | I get it. But uh listen and I I will say it because it actually bothers the heck out of me. It's not a bomb shelter. I found that insulting.
1:15:22 | Seniors here are not sexing class citizens. That's insulting. Suggesting that we look at them that way is
1:15:30 | insulting. And I'm saying that as a senior, it's insulting. We do not treat our seniors or think of them as
1:15:38 | secondass citizens. And it is not a bombshell. I I referred to the the room where they had the the durability.
1:15:45 | You refer to the senior center as a bomb shelter.
1:15:48 | Mr. Singer, I will take you down to the durable.
1:15:50 | I would like you to watch the video. I don't care about the durability of durable equipment room. I care about how you refer to the senior center as a bomb
1:15:57 | shelter. That puts them as secondass citizens. I'm just telling you that's insulting.
1:16:04 | I I can understand your opinion. I disagree.
1:16:08 | If I would and this may seem anecdotal, but um [clears throat] you saw something tonight that I have never seen in town
1:16:17 | government and that is a presentation where we talked about a senior center of $21 million three years ago and we're
1:16:24 | coming in here now with with a much different cost [snorts] factor. I think I've never seen that happen. You go you
1:16:32 | go three years and it gets less money to do the job. We've done that. We've done it here. We've [clears throat] done it with fire.
1:16:39 | Fire was here. We've done it with a lot of things in here.
1:16:42 | That's exactly what we did all the time. Activities torn down. It's a regular occurrence.
1:16:47 | So that would have been land just land too was the public the fire station at the third strike. They got it right.
1:16:54 | I want just to can I just clarify one thing completely off of this discussion.
1:16:57 | So they were said more than once that there was overwhelmingly passing through the town.
1:17:02 | The physibility study passed. I don't think there was that overwhelming but the building never passed. Is that correct? We already voted that was
1:17:09 | already gone through the town on the building itself.
1:17:12 | No, no, it was it was just the house doctor to be able to go in and do for the sale of that building few years back.
1:17:21 | That was that was a citizen there was a citizen's petition at one time to try to try to acquire but it did not pass.
1:17:28 | Did not pass. So that the building itself didn't pass once already. So I'm on the right track.
1:17:32 | Visibility passed and it and it was different too because it included the other building. It was a much bigger property. It included the other building that's now some kind of electric company or something like that.
1:17:41 | So in that time since then they split it with the planning board. Yeah. They originally wanted three mill.
1:17:47 | Yeah. But for both three buildings they want three million and now they want two million for what?
1:17:56 | Two buildings and an extra acre and a half a frame. A building frame. Michelle. Yeah.
1:18:01 | Um to to David's point, I do want to say that the town has uh recently put some effort downstairs and um they put some
1:18:09 | drop ceiling in into the pool room. They put some drop ceiling in into the hallway. They painted the the walls downstairs in the hallway. So, it is
1:18:16 | starting to look much more like a town hall and I do appreciate that. And I they're going to fix the floor soon. I understand. So to David's point, they
1:18:24 | have put some effort in downstairs to paint the the floor uh the walls and put the drop ceiling in and it is there was
1:18:31 | exposed wires galore, exposed pipes galore for years, years and years. So the um recently there has been efforts
1:18:39 | to uh improve downstairs. So I do want to acknowledge that and be thankful for that because it is absolutely uh an improvement in the past uh year. Yeah.
1:18:49 | And and I'm not sure everyone heard me, but with the 21.8 8 million that was also going to be a tear down and a complete tear down and rebuild.
1:18:59 | Everything was [snorts] except for the bond was going to be moved.
1:19:03 | So that was no different. I mean actually it was worse than this scenario and there was no parking in that other scenario for 21 million. There was there
1:19:11 | was no parking. [snorts] So we couldn't support at least I couldn't support a a $21 million for a beautiful facility that no one can get to.
1:19:22 | But if but if you look at the numbers and if we found a piece of land which I'm from for half that
1:19:29 | now all of a sudden the price to build is the same and maybe there's a piece of there's realtors probably watching this you
1:19:37 | might get calls tomorrow might be something low something closer.
1:19:42 | So what are you saying? The town would buy a piece of land and then spend the 12 million 116 million acre of land on
1:19:50 | Dresser Hill doesn't sell doesn't sell for 900,000.
1:19:54 | No, it sells for maybe 150 200,000 with a view. Doesn't sell for 900,000.
1:20:02 | I don't know.
1:20:03 | Probably commercial. Maybe grandfathered commercial maybe.
1:20:07 | All right. So Andrew, can you So can you just for the next meeting, can we get a time frame? So we know how to and and yeah the option steps
1:20:16 | yeah next steps that's what we need and the next meeting doesn't the next meeting doesn't um doesn't affect the warrant or anything
1:20:25 | and on that whole fear I've seen us um we've opened warrants before okay
1:20:32 | I've seen that happen too we appreciate that all right I just want to commend you great presentation right Oh yeah.
1:20:44 | And for the second, don't think that we think that we don't need a senior center. We absolutely I speak for myself, but I know everybody does.
1:20:52 | Just one last thing. Um the owner has agreed to allow us to do an open house up there. So, we're planning on doing that in September if we if we can.
1:20:58 | Is he going to tear all the walls down the roof off before we go look at it?
1:21:04 | There's no there's no walls in it. So, basically, you know, we might tape it off and show people this is kitchen would be whatever, but that'll be open to the whole community as well.
1:21:14 | Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
1:21:17 | Y Pam, that's Andrew, that Charlie crossing. That was perfect.
1:21:25 | That was Do we have any requests for future agenda items? Sir, I have one.
1:21:32 | Oh, oh, David. Oh, I'm sorry, David. I'm sorry. That's okay. Um, I'll be very quick.
1:21:35 | There's only honestly two fees. that I actually wanted to ask the board to consider uh reducing or eliminating. The
1:21:44 | ones not on this list. Uh I would like to eventually get into marriage licenses and whatnot, but I would like to zero
1:21:53 | out if we can um all fees for death certificate copies. I'm trying to find it on here, but basically I mean I have a screenshot.
1:22:03 | uh deaths you're averaging about 160s a year and about
1:22:12 | I don't have just theirs we're looking about 7,000 a year on average for all searchs that includes marriage death
1:22:20 | I just would like to zero out death certificates I think that at that point in someone's
1:22:27 | life going through a tragedy the last thing we should be doing is nickeling and dimeing people photo copies. And when you go through it, you realize
1:22:35 | sometimes it is more often than not, it's not even like you need a copy. You need six. You might need 20 because you're dealing with Exactly. You're
1:22:43 | dealing with the horrors of a loss and having to let all the credit cards, loans, property. It's it's a nightmare.
1:22:50 | And I would like to zero that out. The other fees I would like to zero out is not on here. It should be because it is under our board now. And that's dog
1:22:59 | licenses that we do three about 2,800 a year on average. And dog licenses are
1:23:05 | making around 27 uh,000 a year on average for the town. I'm not asking to zero out all.
1:23:12 | I just want to point out the reason why they weren't on that list is because those fees are set by law, not by the selection. There that's what So you'd
1:23:20 | have to change the bylaw. So they might ask we to change the bylaw so that seniors and veterans, which is my target, uh do not have to pay for dog
1:23:28 | licenses. I do not believe our seniors or our veterans should have to pay for the quote privilege of companionship.
1:23:35 | And I believe K9 companionship for our seniors and our veterans is paramount.
1:23:40 | Uh you still have to license. I would like to see that if we remove that, there's no longer a obstacle to
1:23:48 | licensing their dogs, especially if you have seniors or vets on fixed incomes.
1:23:53 | If they don't license, you're still going to be subject to the fines, late fees, and everything else. But we remove the obstacle. And I think we should not
1:24:01 | be charging again seniors and veterans who need that companionship. We have we
1:24:08 | don't charge for cats, right, that run all over town, sit on neighbors porches and the other people's cats and dogs,
1:24:14 | but we license required for dogs. I would love to see all dog licenses go away, but let's just focus on seniors and veterans, please.
1:24:24 | Is that a pass through to the ACO and that thing?
1:24:27 | It's under the town clerk uh manages that and per the requirements,
1:24:34 | um it says that we may charge that doesn't say we have to or have to charge a certain amount. It could be a
1:24:42 | penny. It could be zero. It's our It's the town's discretion. And I would like to see if it's something we can just vote on to do or if it's that we have to
1:24:50 | vote to make a bylaw change and put it out for that vote vote to make dog licenses for seniors and veterans free.
1:24:59 | I'd like to see that done and I'd like to see it done hopefully sooner rather than later.
1:25:07 | I think that's the least the least we could do for our seniors and veterans.
1:25:16 | I just have one question. At what age are we considering seniors?
1:25:20 | I would say whatever the town already uses for it senior legal definition for the senior center whatever the town
1:25:29 | 60 they use 60. So if the town's if the town's threshold is 60 then that's the threshold whatever the town's threshold
1:25:36 | there's no for a senior if obviously it's easy to document and for a veteran sir it should also be easy to to
1:25:44 | demonstrate that you are a veteran to get the benefit of not having to pay for the dog license. I think our vets and our seniors really benefit a lot from K9
1:25:54 | companionship and I think it's a crime that we're charging them for what shouldn't even be a privilege to have a dog death
1:26:02 | certific I would like to see death certificates go zero um I'd like to see marriage if possible
1:26:10 | it's almost like a hey wishing you the best of luck here's your certificate it's not like it's not like it takes moving mountains
1:26:18 | to give someone a certificate and birth.
1:26:22 | I'm I'm trying not to ask to zero out everything.
1:26:25 | I'd like to know that, but certificate of good with the rest I would not I would keep certificate. Good. I saw births actually jumped out at me.
1:26:34 | Do you notice that they're consistent though? Birth, death, marriage there there's over all those
1:26:41 | there's very little change between birth, death, marriage is amazingly consistent.
1:26:48 | But so yes, You're the chair. I'm sorry, David. Just still talking.
1:26:51 | No, go ahead, Karen. I'm I'm done. I just That was all I want to do is the dogs for seniors and veterans and death and birth was all I really cared about. Sorry. Yes.
1:26:59 | Yeah. I just So, I I understand where you're coming from. I mean, marriage.
1:27:03 | The question, what was and I again have an issue hearing some comments. Um what was the total loss of revenue? And
1:27:10 | personally, you know, before we make any kind of decision, I'd really like to know how are we going to make up for those dollars because I'm assuming
1:27:17 | they're going to a place and being used for something that's needed.
1:27:22 | So, one one of those total fees, which includes all birth, death, marriage, everything, averages less than $8,000 a
1:27:31 | year. And we're not looking to zero all of them out. Um, just the death and marriage. And as for dogs, um to Karen's
1:27:39 | point, while we're talking an average of I would say it's going to average around $27,000, that's all dog licenses, we're only
1:27:48 | looking to zero out hopefully seniors and veterans. Everyone else in town still has to pay the dog license fees.
1:27:54 | And then even seniors and veterans, if they failed to license, are still responsible for late fees and fines.
1:28:01 | You still have the license, you just don't have to pay. Correct. You have to get the license. that is required.
1:28:06 | You still have absolutely shots and you're not off the hook.
1:28:09 | But we remove an obstacle for seniors and vets and it's and honestly it's also besides the room obstacle, it's a benefit I think that they deserve.
1:28:19 | Just if I if I were to guess, it's probably half that number.
1:28:24 | Well, there's only if we have 5,000 seniors, they don't all have dogs, so it's going to be significantly less than that.
1:28:32 | Um, I'm personally good with the uh dog licenses for the vets and the seniors and the seniors. I'm good with the
1:28:39 | death. Other than that, that's all I really was asking for.
1:28:43 | Other than that, I will give everything else.
1:28:45 | But we can do to pay for the marriage.
1:28:47 | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, we can vote, but we can't vote until the next meeting anyway. Right.
1:28:51 | Right. But even if we want to pursue um a bylaw change for dog licenses for
1:28:58 | vets and seniors, it still would have to be again voted on at a future meeting anyway.
1:29:04 | But I wanted to get this out there. I wanted everyone this board to know what I would like to see us pursue.
1:29:11 | I have one questionful probably for Andrew. I guess my only question is with the dog licenses are a cost to the town to get these in order to give them
1:29:19 | well you know we do have to purchase the you know the tags um you know there's certification there's you know the
1:29:28 | say I don't want to say what it's really kind of doing is going into any of the fees that we collect and this goes into the general operating
1:29:36 | budget so when we're budgeting every year we're we're kind of looking to say okay we're receiving this revenue from all these different areas that goes the
1:29:43 | global budget. So obviously it goes to slightly subsidized town clerk acco those things that we have general
1:29:50 | operating budget. So it's it's kind of like that here's that equivalent cost within that gigantic budget that that goes toward each if you were to really
1:29:59 | break it down effort. Um I just wanted the other point I just wanted to note. Um so master of
1:30:07 | law charter 40 22F is the current section of law that we are referring to that sets the current fee. Um, with some
1:30:16 | of these there is another uh applicable statute that may default back to that says that this is the default number and
1:30:25 | I think that those might be like $2,1 $2. It was like unless a town has
1:30:30 | adopted this um to to increase the fee that has adopted 4022F to increase the
1:30:38 | fee then it defer back to that. I'll just have to ask council as to whether or not you can go any lower than that.
1:30:44 | So you have homework homework. Yeah. I just have to ask to see actually zero them out or if they have to be that state.
1:30:52 | I would like I would so preference zero amount for seniors and vets and if not allowed make it the $1 or
1:31:00 | whatever the minimum is. And like so people at home I'm sure they hopefully they can read this but Andrew did a wonderful job and shows where it even says right here
1:31:09 | you know that the board uh is empowered to issue permit whatever they can read it but the board has the ability to fix
1:31:16 | them and change them and hopefully Andrew will now come back with okay here's how far you can go to that to that end.
1:31:25 | I really wanted to convert.
1:31:26 | [clears throat]
1:31:28 | Yeah, they could sit not like just as elements your bylaw basically says you can't have an amount less than $2.
1:31:35 | So that's the bottom threshold.
1:31:38 | So can we like have this on the next meeting in September so that we can continue the conversation. Maybe Andrew will have more answers for us.
1:31:44 | I can be a little bit more focused more research and try to get some more information. Thank you. All righty.
1:31:51 | See, I told you I'd be quick and painless. Quick, not painless. A dog friendly town.
1:31:58 | It is a dog friendly town. Well, Mr.
1:32:03 | Okay. So, so we're on to um any future agenda items.
1:32:15 | I'll be back. [laughter] We might change that to board deliberate. Oh, it's always board deliberation and vote. Even if we're not voting, it's just the section. Yeah.
1:32:28 | Um, next meeting, sir.
1:32:29 | Next meeting date is September 8th, 2026, 6:30 p.m. Town Hall, meeting room number one. I would take a motion to adjourn.
1:32:38 | So move, sir.
1:32:39 | Second. All in favor? I. Sorry. Bash.
1:32:46 | Steve. I David. I thanks everyone. Thank you. Good night.
1:32:53 | You all have a good day.