2026-09-03 - Board of Commissioners Info Meeting

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0:00:12Heat.

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0:14:52like to call the meeting to order. Good

0:14:54morning. We're glad to have you here.

0:14:56Third, it's Thursday, September the 3

0:14:58already and welcome to the Davis County

0:15:01Board of Commissioner meeting. Um the

0:15:03invocation and pledge is going to be

0:15:05given by Commissioner Meiselle. Thank

0:15:07you very much.

0:15:08>> Thank you, Madam Chair. If you'd like to

0:15:10um bow with me, please feel free to do

0:15:12so. We once again beseech Divine

0:15:15Providence. We come before you today

0:15:17with grateful hearts in being able to

0:15:19serve the people of Davidson County. We

0:15:22ask your blessing upon Steve Shook as he

0:15:24joins this board. Grant him wisdom and

0:15:27counsel, firmness and principle, and

0:15:30humility and service for the public

0:15:32trust now placed in his hands. May we

0:15:35receive him in a spirit of fellowship

0:15:38and work together with prudence with

0:15:40devotion to the common good. Lord, we

0:15:44also remember our friend and colleague

0:15:46Fred Mccclure.

0:15:47We are grateful for his years of

0:15:49service, for the wisdom he shared, and

0:15:52for the lives he touched. We especially

0:15:55lift up Kay and the entire Mccclure

0:15:58family. Surround them with your comfort

0:16:00and love and grant them peace in the

0:16:02midst of their loss.

0:16:04today as we conduct the business before

0:16:06us, guide our words, our decisions, and

0:16:08our actions. Amen.

0:16:10>> Amen.

0:16:10>> If you'll stand, we'll face the flag and

0:16:13say the pledge. [clears throat]

0:16:14>> I pledge algiance to the flag of the

0:16:18United States of America and to the

0:16:20republic for which it stands, one nation

0:16:24under God, indivisible, with liberty and

0:16:27justice for all.

0:16:32>> Okay.

0:16:35We'll [clears throat] continue with

0:16:37recognition. I'll call on Commissioner

0:16:39Shale if if he will for our veterans.

0:16:43>> If we have any veterans with us today,

0:16:45would you please stand?

0:16:51>> Okay.

0:16:52[applause]

0:16:55If you have not received the county

0:16:57veterans pin, would you please come up

0:16:59so we can make present one to you?

0:17:11Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you for

0:17:13your service.

0:17:14>> An honor.

0:17:15>> Thank you for your service. Good

0:17:17morning,

0:17:17>> sir.

0:17:20[clears throat]

0:17:22Thank you, Madam Chair.

0:17:24>> You're welcome.

0:17:25If you have not registered and wish to

0:17:28register for public addresses, you may

0:17:30do so at the table of here. U move on to

0:17:33the adoption of the agenda. We have a

0:17:35few things to think about.

0:17:37>> Yes.

0:17:38>> Before you go there,

0:17:39>> let's let's excuse me. I need to excuse

0:17:42Commissioner um

0:17:44>> Elliot. Elliot.

0:17:44>> I'll make a motion we [laughter]

0:17:46second.

0:17:47>> I've got a motion and a second. All in

0:17:49favor say I.

0:17:50>> I.

0:17:50>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Debbie.

0:17:53>> You're welcome.

0:17:53>> Okay. We need to add ratification and

0:17:56swearing in of new board member Steve

0:17:58Shook to fill vacancy as agenda item 6A.

0:18:02Also, agenda item 7D needs to be removed

0:18:07from your agenda.

0:18:10And we need to add a close session for

0:18:15attorney client privilege. Um,

0:18:22everybody clear on that?

0:18:24>> Okay. Are there any other changes to the

0:18:26agenda?

0:18:29>> Okay. May I have a motion and a second

0:18:32to adopt the amended agenda?

0:18:34>> Motion to adopt.

0:18:35>> Thank you, sir. Do I have a second?

0:18:37>> Second.

0:18:38>> All in favor say I. I.

0:18:40>> I. Thank you. All right. Is there anyone

0:18:43registered to to speak? Mr. Mayus.

0:18:52Thank you. All right. I'd like to call

0:18:56Jackie Taylor, please.

0:19:02>> Good morning, chairwoman and

0:19:03commissioners. My name is Jackie Taylor

0:19:05and I have been a resident of Davidson

0:19:07County for almost 22 years. After my

0:19:09remarks, I have a 12-page copy of an

0:19:12email I have previously sent to

0:19:13commissioners, county attorneys, and

0:19:15county managers that I will formally

0:19:17hand to the clerk to be submitted into

0:19:18the official record. This is a pivotal

0:19:21point as this incident set the beginning

0:19:23of a hostile environment because of the

0:19:25way the director harassed me at the

0:19:27follies and falsely accused me of

0:19:28something I did not do. I resigned from

0:19:31my volunteer position and reported it to

0:19:33adult protective services who referred

0:19:35me to the human resource manager, Jim

0:19:37Tyinger.

0:19:39This document contains the email that I

0:19:41sent to senior services manager Christy

0:19:44Smith the day of the 2015 files. It

0:19:47contains the email Tisha Everheart

0:19:49Roberts sent to me that day after

0:19:50Christy notified her of my email. I had

0:19:53not read the email from Tisha when I was

0:19:55enjoying the follies and feeling very

0:19:57proud of myself for winning the first

0:19:58place blue ribbon on a literary arts

0:20:00paper I had submitted.

0:20:03Tisha approached me demanding that I set

0:20:05an appointment with her and Christy to

0:20:07discuss the email I sent Christy earlier

0:20:09that day. I told Tisha repeatedly that

0:20:12it was not the time and the place to get

0:20:14into this. Tisha said I accused Christy

0:20:17of having an affair with a participant.

0:20:19I denied that. Tisha continued to follow

0:20:21me around and kept demanding I set an

0:20:23appointment on the spot and apologized

0:20:25to Christy. I told Christy I was sorry

0:20:28and that she had misunderstood what I

0:20:30wrote. I didn't accuse her of an affair.

0:20:33My presence today highlights an

0:20:34unresolved civil liability and could

0:20:36possibly affect funding that this county

0:20:39continues to carry. In October 2020, I

0:20:41was permanently terminated from

0:20:43participating in senior services under

0:20:46what I established as retaliatory

0:20:48pretext by the director Tisha Everheart

0:20:50Roberts with the assistance of her

0:20:52advisory board that contained two

0:20:54commissioners, Fred Mccclure and Steve

0:20:56Shell. human resources, county manager,

0:20:59and the county attorney gave her

0:21:00guidance. It is unknown to me if

0:21:02everyone was manipulated or freely

0:21:05assisted. Tisha provided the advisory

0:21:07board a document labeled chronological

0:21:09documentation of issues Jackie Taylor.

0:21:12This termination was justified in part

0:21:15using the email human resources manager

0:21:18Jim Tyinger wrote in 2015 to the county

0:21:21manager expressing a personal opinion

0:21:23that I pose the safety risk. However,

0:21:26the county's own actions contradicted

0:21:29this claim. If the sheriff's office

0:21:30viewed me as a threat, I would have been

0:21:33legally or physically removed from

0:21:34county properties immediately. Instead,

0:21:37I maintain complete, unrestricted access

0:21:39to both the Lexington and the

0:21:41Thomasville

0:21:42senior centers and the Southmont

0:21:44nutrition site for 5 years, four months,

0:21:47and 19 days. I reported this to the

0:21:50previous public address and saw that the

0:21:52clerk entered into the minutes. I spoke

0:21:54of how long. Maybe she didn't understand

0:21:56the focus of my public address as the

0:21:58seriousness of the event. Furthermore,

0:22:01my approved volunteer status under

0:22:03volunteer coordinator Jacob Gordon in

0:22:062014,

0:22:06>> three minutes, ma'am,

0:22:07>> supported my reference like Adam Hall or

0:22:09personal advisory assistant stands as a

0:22:11testament to my character. the targeted

0:22:13[clears throat] behavior of the

0:22:14nutrition site coordinator Terry Thomas

0:22:16who openly discussed my medical history

0:22:19regarding bipolar and PTSD and

0:22:21weaponized it to create the smear

0:22:22campaign represents a severe breach of

0:22:25protocol incorporating Tyinger's email

0:22:27deform chronological problem logs was

0:22:30only to show a history of administrative

0:22:32retaliation Terry told me and the other

0:22:34participants what medications he thinks

0:22:36I should be on and since I'm unmedicated

0:22:39I will go postal and shoot up the place

0:22:41Mr. tossing or emailing that that he is

0:22:44concerned I might hurt someone because I

0:22:46spoke of guns and violence.

0:22:48>> Miss Taylor, Miss Taylor, thank you.

0:22:53>> Thank you.

0:22:54>> Appreciate it. Thank you.

0:22:57>> Tyler Tyrie.

0:23:04>> Good morning, everyone.

0:23:07>> My [clears throat] name is Tyler Tyrie.

0:23:08I wanted to speak today in favor of the

0:23:10six-month mortorium on data centers in

0:23:12this county. There are plenty of

0:23:14concerns environmental, health, and

0:23:16zoning. Many most of which others have

0:23:20already expressed and brought up very

0:23:21good points about. We are only asking

0:23:23for the mtorium to be put in place so we

0:23:26have time to do research and bring forth

0:23:28any concerns that we have. Thank you for

0:23:30your time. Thank you.

0:23:31>> Thank you, [clears throat]

0:23:33>> Dana Lumis.

0:23:40Good morning. First of all, I'm going to

0:23:41ask for prayers for my mother-in-law.

0:23:43You know about the fire here on MLK that

0:23:46is taking my mother-in-law off of life

0:23:48support. So, I ask for prayers from the

0:23:49county. Um, I'm only going to say

0:23:52congratulations to Steve Shook.

0:23:55Steve, I hope you come up here and take

0:23:57this oath and have an open mind to what

0:23:59the issues are in Davidson County. Not

0:24:02just about addiction or mental health.

0:24:03I'm talking about the concerns of the

0:24:05citizens of Davidson County. You are now

0:24:07going to step into a bees nest and I

0:24:09wish you luck and thank you for what

0:24:11you're doing. Other than this, CCR is

0:24:14here today. I asked the board of

0:24:15commissioners that happen open mind with

0:24:17CCR about the opioid settlements, the

0:24:20funds going here. We know we got what is

0:24:22it? 12.1 million in the coppers to be

0:24:25allocated for opioid and battling abuse

0:24:28of them. Um, I ask that not only

0:24:30Davidson County Sheriff's Department,

0:24:32Richie Simmons not be the only one to

0:24:34get any funding from this money. At this

0:24:36point, Mr. Simmons and the Davidson

0:24:38County Sheriff's Department has been

0:24:40given I think um right now a million

0:24:43plus I think he's waiting on 2.3 or 3.5

0:24:46for the um the house. He wants to open

0:24:48up the bridge house. I asked you to

0:24:50consider other nonprofits in this county

0:24:52who are boots on the ground and saving

0:24:54lives. Now, I see uh medical ministries

0:24:57in the house. Thank you. Thank you to um

0:24:59Miss Coun from the health department.

0:25:01They do a great job. Um there are so

0:25:04many entities out here walking and

0:25:06talking and going into the homeless

0:25:07camps going out here and talking,

0:25:09holding events out of their own pocket.

0:25:12I at this point withdraw my request for

0:25:15funding from the county of Davidson

0:25:16because I think half of you, there's

0:25:18three of you that are good, but the

0:25:19other you're ignorant to the problem we

0:25:21have in this county. Thank you and have

0:25:22a wonderful day.

0:25:24>> Thank you, sir.

0:25:27All right, Janine Purdue.

0:25:32[clears throat]

0:25:41[clears throat]

0:25:42>> Good morning. First, I would like to

0:25:44offer my condolences to all of you on

0:25:46the passing of your colleague and friend

0:25:47Fred Mccclure.

0:25:49Second, I would like to welcome

0:25:51Commissioner Steve Shook to the Davidson

0:25:53County Board of Commissioners.

0:25:55Mr. Shook, welcome to the board. I hope

0:25:58you will listen carefully to the

0:26:00citizens of this county, ask tough

0:26:02questions, and make decisions based on

0:26:04what is best for Davidson County and its

0:26:06future. I also want to ask this board to

0:26:09put the data center moratorum back on

0:26:11the agenda. The last time this issue

0:26:13came before you, the vote ended in a

0:26:15three-3 tie and Commissioner Fred

0:26:17Mccclure was not there to participate in

0:26:19that vote. Unfortunately, Commissioner

0:26:22Mccclure has since passed away, and I

0:26:24want to again extend my condolences to

0:26:26his family and everyone who knew him.

0:26:29But now there is a new commissioner in

0:26:30that seat. We have a fully functioning

0:26:33board of seven. The changes that changes

0:26:36the circumstances. The citizens of

0:26:38Davidson County deserve to have all

0:26:40seven commissioners hear this issue,

0:26:42debate it, and cast a vote. And I want

0:26:45to be very clear, asking for a moratorum

0:26:47is not the same thing as saying we are

0:26:49against economic development or against

0:26:52businesses coming to Davidson County.

0:26:54That's ridiculous. What we are asking

0:26:57for is time. Time for due diligence,

0:27:00informed, responsible governance. Time

0:27:03to understand what data centers could

0:27:06mean for our water supply, our

0:27:08electrical infrastructure, our roads,

0:27:10emergency services, land, neighboring

0:27:13property owners. the taxpayers and our

0:27:15electrical bills. A six-month moratorum

0:27:18is not permanent. It gives the county an

0:27:21opportunity to study the issue and

0:27:24establish reasonable standards before we

0:27:26make decisions that could affect

0:27:28Davidson County for generations to come.

0:27:31What and why is six months such a big

0:27:34deal to y'all? Honestly, why not give

0:27:39yourself the time? We look like the

0:27:42ignorant outlier. Literally every single

0:27:45county surrounding us is either pausing

0:27:47or stopping the development and have

0:27:49signed moratoriums. I'm supposed to

0:27:52believe y'all are smarter than literally

0:27:54the rest of the state. [clears throat]

0:27:56Once these facilities are built, we are

0:27:58not going to be able to simply undo

0:28:00them. And the the way technology changes

0:28:02so quickly, these buildings will be

0:28:04dinosaurs and the citizenry will be left

0:28:06with the consequences of them. So I

0:28:09believe that the responsible thing to do

0:28:11is pause.

0:28:12pause, study, plan, and then make an

0:28:16informed decision. Six months. I will

0:28:18say it again. Six months. Commissioners,

0:28:22you now have seven members sitting on

0:28:24the board. Please put the data center

0:28:26moratorium back on the agenda. Let the

0:28:29public speak. Let all seven

0:28:32commissioners vote and let Davidson

0:28:34County make the decisions with the full

0:28:36board, with full information, not

0:28:39rushed, and with the future of this

0:28:41county in mind. Thank you.

0:28:43>> Thank you.

0:28:47[clears throat]

0:28:48>> All right. I believe we're on item

0:28:51number

0:28:54>> 6A.

0:28:54>> 6A. Okay. Um,

0:28:59I I need to read something to you. Okay.

0:29:03As most are aware, Commissioner Fred

0:29:06Mccclure sadly passed away on Thursday,

0:29:08August the 27th, leaving a vacancy on

0:29:12this board. State law provides a process

0:29:16for filling the seat. Under GS153A27.1

0:29:22[snorts] law provides there are two

0:29:24separate processes that will take place

0:29:27and they have taken place. First of all,

0:29:29a new member will be seated who will

0:29:31serve until the board's um

0:29:34organizational meeting which is

0:29:36scheduled for December the 7th. Second,

0:29:39an election will be added to the

0:29:40November ballot to elect a member who

0:29:42will serve the remainder of Mr.

0:29:44McCclure's two-year term. The candidate

0:29:48elected in November will be sworn in at

0:29:50the organizational meeting scheduled for

0:29:52December the 7th. The board of elections

0:29:55will handle the election. This board is

0:29:58responsible for appointing the new

0:30:00member who will serve through December

0:30:02the 7th. Pursuant to the statue where

0:30:05the deceased commissioner was originally

0:30:07selected as the nominee of a political

0:30:09party, the county executive me committee

0:30:13of that party has the opportunity to

0:30:15recommend the new appointment. When the

0:30:18vacancy is filled, the board is required

0:30:20to appoint the person recommended by the

0:30:22party's executive committee. In this

0:30:25case, Mr. Mccclure. In this case, Mr.

0:30:29Mccclure was a nominee of the Republican

0:30:31party.

0:30:33So, the Davidson County Republican Party

0:30:35has the option to recommend the new

0:30:36appointment.

0:30:39On September the 1st, the Davidson

0:30:41County Republican Party notified the

0:30:43county it had chosen to recommend Steve

0:30:46Shook to fill this vacancy. Accordingly,

0:30:50if the board is ready to fill the

0:30:51vacancy, we will need a motion to

0:30:54appoint Mr. Shook to fill the vacancy on

0:30:56the board through the December

0:30:58organizational meeting.

0:31:01May I have a motion and a second to

0:31:04ratify the appointment of Mr. Shook to

0:31:06fill the vacancy on the board through

0:31:09the December organizational meeting?

0:31:12>> I make a motion to appoint Mr. Shook.

0:31:14>> I have a motion.

0:31:15>> Second.

0:31:16>> Have a second. All in favor say I.

0:31:19>> I.

0:31:21>> Thank you. Now we'll ask Miss Harris to

0:31:24come forward and um be swear in Mr.

0:31:29shook.

0:31:32[clears throat]

0:31:36>> Place your left hand on the Bible and

0:31:40raise your right and repeat after me. I

0:31:43state your name. I, Steve Shook,

0:31:46>> do solemnly swear

0:31:47>> do solemnly swear

0:31:48>> that I will support and maintain

0:31:50>> that I will support and maintain

0:31:51>> the Constitution and laws

0:31:53>> the Constitution and laws

0:31:54>> of the United States

0:31:55>> of the United States

0:31:56>> and the Constitution and laws

0:31:58>> and the Constitution and laws

0:31:59>> of the state of North Carolina

0:32:01>> of the state of North Carolina

0:32:02>> not inconsistent therewith

0:32:04>> not inconsistent therewith

0:32:05>> and that I will faithfully discharge

0:32:07>> and I will faithfully discharge

0:32:09>> the duties of my office

0:32:10>> the duties of my office

0:32:12>> as commissioner for Davidson County that

0:32:14the commissioner of Davidson County.

0:32:16>> So help me God.

0:32:17>> So help me God.

0:32:18>> I state your name. I, Steve Shook,

0:32:20>> further solemnly and sincerely swear

0:32:23>> I solemnly and sincerely swear

0:32:24>> that I will support the Constitution

0:32:26>> that I will support the Constitution

0:32:28>> of the United States

0:32:29>> of the United States

0:32:30>> that I will be faithful

0:32:32>> I will be faithful

0:32:33>> and bear true allegiance

0:32:34>> and bear true allegiance

0:32:35>> to the state of North Carolina

0:32:37>> to the state of North Carolina

0:32:38>> and to the constitutional powers

0:32:40>> and to the constitutional powers

0:32:41>> and authorities

0:32:42>> and authorities

0:32:43>> which are or may be established

0:32:45>> which are or may be established

0:32:47>> for the government thereof

0:32:48>> for the government thereof.

0:32:50>> And that I will endeavor to support

0:32:51>> I will endeavor to support

0:32:53>> maintain and defend

0:32:54>> maintain and defend

0:32:56>> the Constitution of said state

0:32:58>> the Constitution of the said state

0:33:00>> not inconsistent with

0:33:01>> not inconsistent with

0:33:03>> the Constitution of the United States

0:33:05>> the Constitution of the United States

0:33:07>> to the best of my knowledge and ability

0:33:09>> to the best of my knowledge and ability.

0:33:10>> So help me God.

0:33:11>> So help me God. I state your name.

0:33:13>> I, Steve Shook,

0:33:15>> do swear

0:33:15>> do swear

0:33:16>> that I will well and truly

0:33:18>> well and truly

0:33:19>> execute the duties

0:33:20>> execute the duties

0:33:21>> of the office

0:33:22>> of the office

0:33:23>> of commissioner for Davidson County

0:33:25>> the commissioner of for Davidson County

0:33:26>> according to the best of my skill and

0:33:28ability

0:33:29>> for the best of my skill and ability

0:33:31>> according to law

0:33:32>> according to law

0:33:33>> so help me God.

0:33:33>> So help me God.

0:33:34>> Congratulations.

0:33:37>> Thank you.

0:33:37>> You're welcome. I'm going to have you

0:33:38sign

0:33:40We'll [applause]

0:33:56find out.

0:34:07Thank you very much. Go ahead. Get on

0:34:09the All right.

0:34:28Congratulations

0:34:41Now, don't do like I did. Roll back the

0:34:44chair and your feet come up like you

0:34:45about turn over backwards.

0:34:47>> Should be all right.

0:34:49>> Okay, we're going to move on to item

0:34:51seven, items for decision and

0:34:52deliberation.

0:34:54First of all, um

0:34:56uh we um have a proclamation for the the

0:35:00flags of Davidson County to be lowered

0:35:03to half staff in honor of Commissioner

0:35:05Fred Mccclure. Um I'd like to offer that

0:35:09we have a motion and a second to adopt

0:35:12the proclamation lowering the flags at

0:35:15all county buildings and properties

0:35:17through sunset on September the 7th. Do

0:35:21I have a motion?

0:35:21>> Motion.

0:35:22>> I do have a motion. Do I have a second?

0:35:24>> Second.

0:35:25>> I have a second. All in favor say I.

0:35:27>> I.

0:35:28>> I. Thank you.

0:35:30>> All right. We're going to move on to uh

0:35:33additional discussion [snorts]

0:35:36about uh Thomasville City Schools

0:35:39permission to apply for a needsbased

0:35:41public school capital funds. Mr. Mayus

0:35:43and Mr. Shotwell will lead this all.

0:35:52Good morning, Miss Wford. Board of

0:35:54Commissioners. Congratulations,

0:35:56Commissioner Shook.

0:35:58Um, first of all, I want to recognize

0:35:59some of the folks that are out here with

0:36:01me today. I've got one of my board

0:36:02members, Nancy Stton. I've got Dr. Wyn,

0:36:05our principal at Thomasville High

0:36:06School, Coach Atinson, our athletic

0:36:08director, and Coach Ray, our basketball

0:36:10coach. Uh, and they're all here um in

0:36:14support of what we're requesting today.

0:36:18Um,

0:36:22thank you for the opportunity to speak

0:36:23with you and thank you Davidson County

0:36:26for extending the $15 million commitment

0:36:28to Thomasville High School project. That

0:36:30commitment has allowed us to bring forth

0:36:32a realistic opportunity uh rather than

0:36:35simply an aspiration.

0:36:38Today, on behalf of the Thomasville City

0:36:40Schools Board of Education, I'm asking

0:36:43for the county to please redirect $15

0:36:45million already set aside for

0:36:47Thomasville City Schools and Lexon City

0:36:49Schools to the Thomasville High School

0:36:51project. Combined with the county's

0:36:53existing 15 million commitment that

0:36:56would bring the local commitment to $30

0:36:58million, and it would position Davidson

0:37:00County to pursue a $62 million state

0:37:03award through the needs-based grant

0:37:05capital fund.

0:37:07Together, that partnership would create

0:37:08a $92 million investment in Thomasville

0:37:11High School, approximately 140,000

0:37:13square foot facility

0:37:15that would be built uh behind the

0:37:17current high school, and it would be for

0:37:20our students and our future workforce

0:37:22for Davidson County. The reason this

0:37:24project is needed, Thomasville High

0:37:27School has served generations of

0:37:28students with pride, but many of the

0:37:30buildings date back to the 1950s and no

0:37:33longer provide the safe and secure

0:37:35accessible or technological advanced

0:37:38learning environment our students

0:37:39needed. Currently, we have a uh request

0:37:42for proposals for our CTR/band

0:37:46ROC building because we are not able to

0:37:49use it this year due to uh water and

0:37:51sewer issues and we've set aside a

0:37:53million dollars for that and some roof

0:37:56repair just for that one building.

0:37:59The band has been relocated to a

0:38:01classroom uh adjacent to the uh gym, but

0:38:05we do have sound deadening uh panels put

0:38:08into the room.

0:38:10The project would replace multiple aging

0:38:12buildings with a modern unified campus.

0:38:14It would improve safety and

0:38:16accessibility, consolidate our

0:38:18alternative school into uh onto the

0:38:20campus, and preserve an important

0:38:22community asset, including the existing

0:38:24gymnasium and auditorium. This is a

0:38:27workforce and economic development

0:38:28investment. This is not simply a request

0:38:31to construct the school building. It's

0:38:32an investment in the economic

0:38:33development, workforce readiness, and

0:38:35the long-term prosperity of Davidson

0:38:37County. The the new campus would support

0:38:40expanded career technical education in

0:38:42the areas such as advanced

0:38:44manufacturing, health sciences, culinary

0:38:46arts, digital technologies, and other

0:38:49high demand career pathways which were

0:38:51also in partnership with uh Davidson

0:38:53Davy Community College. Although the

0:38:56school is located in Thomasville, the

0:38:57workforce it helps will develop to serve

0:39:00employers and communities throughout

0:39:02Davidson County. Our goal is to prepare

0:39:04students for college, careers, and

0:39:06military service and to help local

0:39:08employers find skilled people that they

0:39:10need. It's a ready project and a rare

0:39:13opportunity. We have an invest we have

0:39:15invested considerable time and resources

0:39:17preparing the project for success. We've

0:39:21uh we have design development is

0:39:23complete. The plans have been submitted

0:39:25to the Department of Public Instruction

0:39:26for review and the district is prepared

0:39:28to move forward. Right now, we're only

0:39:30waiting on core samples from where we're

0:39:33propo putting the proposed building and

0:39:35also for uh the pressure test for the

0:39:38sprinkler system uh with the city.

0:39:41The decision before you is whether the

0:39:44to direct funds that the county has

0:39:46already set aside towards a project that

0:39:47could bring in as much as $62 million in

0:39:50state capital funds back to Davidson

0:39:52County. If awarded, the grant would save

0:39:54Davidson County from having to finance

0:39:56the $62 million locally

0:39:59under under the planning scenario. And

0:40:01let me tell you, I got to tell you that

0:40:03that Debbie and Tim have been amazing to

0:40:05help me when I have questions. And uh

0:40:08and Tim and I have have been in contact

0:40:10with one another. And so I just want you

0:40:11to know my numbers is a lay person. It's

0:40:14a superintendent that's just simply

0:40:16doing simple math and not taking in the

0:40:18other difficulties that go into

0:40:20calculating it. But I did ask him how

0:40:22much would it cost on the tax rate and

0:40:25that so I did include that on there and

0:40:27made an assumption for what the possible

0:40:29in interest rate might be. Said if

0:40:32awarded it would save us $62 million

0:40:34locally

0:40:36which also means that we're avoiding pro

0:40:38uh paying $86.5

0:40:41million in total payments. The 62

0:40:43million principal with approximately

0:40:4624.55 million in financing cost over 15

0:40:49years.

0:40:51We recognize that this is a significant

0:40:53financial commitment and we do not make

0:40:55this request lightly. The request does

0:40:58not ask the uh county to identify new

0:41:00$15 million resource. It asked the board

0:41:03to redirect the $15 million already

0:41:05reserved for the two city school systems

0:41:07so that Thomasville High School project

0:41:09can meet the local commitment needed to

0:41:11pursue the grant.

0:41:16This is also the year this is a one-time

0:41:18deal. uh that I have been told that one

0:41:22of the factors for recognizing the um

0:41:26the grants this year is a career

0:41:28technical education focus and it's only

0:41:31for the 26 27 grant year. That's what

0:41:35we're doing. We're dedicating an entire

0:41:37floor of this new high school to our

0:41:39career technical education program.

0:41:42And it's uh and it's also we're also

0:41:45consolidating two schools, our bulldog

0:41:47academy and the high school. Each one of

0:41:50the the um categories that's laid out in

0:41:54general statutes, there are points given

0:41:56to those. And we're rating high in all

0:42:00the points in all those categories

0:42:03except for the one about debt service

0:42:04because we've been very fiscally

0:42:06conservative and we have a a county

0:42:08that's growing and we're very uh mindful

0:42:11of the money that's being used. And so

0:42:13there are other counties that will have

0:42:15a higher debt service, but I feel like

0:42:18that the other uh factors that we have

0:42:21here will put Thomasville High School at

0:42:23a much higher and a better position

0:42:25place than we have been than before.

0:42:29This same school has been built in Hope

0:42:31County. They just had ribbon cutting two

0:42:34weeks ago for that. That project was

0:42:37about was $72 million at the time. And

0:42:41we're using that very similar design

0:42:42except we altered the second floor again

0:42:45to uh account for the career technical

0:42:47education and it's approximately $92

0:42:51million. And I can assure you that one

0:42:54of the things even though I am the

0:42:55interim superintendent, the board has

0:42:57asked me to stay in contact with them

0:43:00that if we are awarded this grant to

0:43:02work with this project and the reason I

0:43:05say that is that when I'm looking at it

0:43:07from a taxpayers's point of view and not

0:43:09from an architect's point of view. I

0:43:11don't want a school built that's going

0:43:13to be on the front of architectural

0:43:14digest. What I want is a school that's

0:43:17going to function and serve the

0:43:19curriculum that we need at our school.

0:43:21And I have made that very clear with

0:43:23SFLA that we're going to look at

0:43:25everything that they're doing because we

0:43:27cannot go over $92 million. Nobody has

0:43:29the money to go anywhere over that if we

0:43:32do get this money. And part of that is

0:43:35looking at the lighting. I need to look

0:43:37at the lighting because some of the

0:43:38lighting put in some of these new

0:43:39schools, it cost $1,000 to replace the

0:43:41light bulb in it. That's ridiculous. I

0:43:44just need lights. I don't need something

0:43:46fancy.

0:43:49Miss Wford, members of the board, we

0:43:51respectfully ask you to please redirect

0:43:53that $15 million that's already been set

0:43:55aside to the Thomasville High School

0:43:57project, bringing that local commitment

0:43:59to $30 million

0:44:01and uh into the uh conditions that the

0:44:05county considers appropriate so that we

0:44:07can pursue the maximum $62 million state

0:44:10award. It's a rare opportunity to use

0:44:12these funds already set aside to help

0:44:14secure $62 million in a state

0:44:16investment, potentially avoiding $86.5

0:44:19million in county financing over 15

0:44:22years. It would create a safer, more

0:44:25effective learning environment, expand

0:44:28pathways into high demand careers, and

0:44:30leave a lasting legacy for generations

0:44:32of Davidson County students. I want to

0:44:35thank you for ex your existing

0:44:37commitment and consideration of this

0:44:39request. I know I repeated things

0:44:41several times, but you know, I was told

0:44:43a long time ago with the superintendent

0:44:45says when you when you go out and you're

0:44:46messaging for your district, you have to

0:44:48say the same thing over and over. And

0:44:51when people start coming up to you and

0:44:52they could tell you what you're getting

0:44:54ready to say, then your message has been

0:44:56uh truly delivered. And uh I I just I

0:44:59stand before you today because I've

0:45:01walked through that building. I've been

0:45:02the principal at Lexington High School.

0:45:04I was the interim superintendent over

0:45:05there. Yes, both schools absolutely need

0:45:08something. But at the time, Lexington's

0:45:11not at the same point where we are where

0:45:13we actually have plans ready and they've

0:45:15already been basically 50% of it's

0:45:18already been approved once I get those

0:45:20core samples and the pressure test. The

0:45:23rest of the plans, we'll be able to know

0:45:25exactly how the foundation needs to be

0:45:27laid at the new site.

0:45:30I'm definitely open for questions.

0:45:39I'll I'll start if it's okay with with

0:45:42you all. Now, we have heard a similar

0:45:45presentation before. We um and we had

0:45:48had Mr. Mayus, make sure I I'm saying

0:45:51this correctly. We've had a commitment

0:45:53of 15 million to Lexington and 15

0:45:56million to Thomasville. Correct.

0:45:59>> 15 and a half.

0:46:00>> Correct. And and what we're hearing now

0:46:02is an extra $15 million for Thomasville,

0:46:08not an extra 15 million for Lexington.

0:46:10Okay.

0:46:11>> Yet.

0:46:12>> Yet.

0:46:13>> That's correct.

0:46:14>> Yes. And and there in lies the decision

0:46:17that has to be made. Do do we want to

0:46:20commit that and put us in a position

0:46:23that um we're we might have to give

0:46:27Lexington another 15 million? Do we have

0:46:29the money? Do we have the Is this a good

0:46:32idea? That's what we need to decide.

0:46:36>> Mr. Shook, this is a good one for you to

0:46:38get your feet wet on. Okay.

0:46:42>> Deputy, you want to go?

0:46:43>> No, go ahead.

0:46:44>> Well, I was going to say something. I

0:46:46you know, as a former public school

0:46:47teacher and and I think the rest of the

0:46:49board up here has always been advocates

0:46:51of of our public schools. That's why we

0:46:53have uh close to 44 million set aside.

0:46:57And I know you brought up Hope, Hope

0:46:58County. Um my my concern here is Hope

0:47:02doesn't have three districts like like

0:47:06we do

0:47:06>> where we have to work together. And my

0:47:08concern would be the the plan that was

0:47:11put in place with those districts and

0:47:14the superintendent a couple years back.

0:47:16Now we're we're changing it

0:47:18>> and we're shifting funds that we really

0:47:20don't have around. And I mean, I taught

0:47:23in a school that was probably built

0:47:26during the early Cold War years. So I I

0:47:29mean, I know firsthand um my concern is

0:47:33is we're again we're not staying the

0:47:37course on the plan that we had all

0:47:39decided upon and that the districts

0:47:41superintendents at that time had decided

0:47:43upon. And the other concern is, and

0:47:46maybe Tim you could speak to this, is it

0:47:49has a multiplier effect. I'm looking on

0:47:53it's a few pages in to keep the school

0:47:55systems balanced. So over time,

0:47:58>> am I reading this correct? We would

0:47:59actually need an additional 30

0:48:02>> million,

0:48:04>> not by law, but by just a fairness.

0:48:07>> By the fairness and the standards we've

0:48:09we've had before.

0:48:10>> So it goes

0:48:11>> and I'll be glad to go over the sheets

0:48:13I've provided. There's quite a few.

0:48:16>> That's fine. That would be great.

0:48:17>> Provide some scenarios on how we could

0:48:19potentially [clears throat] pay for

0:48:20this.

0:48:20>> And we have and we have we have this set

0:48:24up. A lot of people complain and say we

0:48:26have a plan, but we do have a plan. We

0:48:29got we have a plan through 32. And so,

0:48:33um, and and that's that's in place. And

0:48:36again, we're trying to be uh watch our

0:48:40money, be be careful that we not get out

0:48:43of line.

0:48:44>> The pie is only so big.

0:48:45>> That's right. It's only so big and uh we

0:48:48don't know what's down the road in terms

0:48:51of crises in other areas. So, Mr. Mayus,

0:48:54go ahead.

0:48:55>> Thank you.

0:48:58>> First, the small sheet that you all

0:49:00have, it just this provides a summary of

0:49:02what Dr. Shotwell just kind of um spoke

0:49:06on state grant amount and these dollar

0:49:09amounts have changed a little bit. I was

0:49:10using the old number. It may have may

0:49:12have changed a little bit. State grant

0:49:14available 62 million for a high school.

0:49:16The countyy's required match would be 15

0:49:18a.5 million or 25%.

0:49:21At the time, uh Thomasville City Schools

0:49:25child nutrition was looking at 1 million

0:49:27lottery funds to 450,000.

0:49:29So that would get us to 78.9

0:49:33still leaving a gap of 14.4 million plus

0:49:36or minus which would fall on the on the

0:49:38county.

0:49:40Um the next little section there I call

0:49:42that the the grant funding potential

0:49:45cause and effect. Um because of the

0:49:47grant. Now of course you're not required

0:49:49to do these items but

0:49:53these are the dollar amounts to keep the

0:49:54proportions we've already kind of

0:49:56earmarked in our capital improvement

0:49:58plan. you would have to bring another

0:49:5911.9 million to the table for Davidson

0:50:01County Schools, 14.4 for Lexington City,

0:50:06and then actually move around the 10

0:50:09million for the uh future capital or

0:50:11lake dredging to the Thomasville uh city

0:50:15project plus the 4.4 to get to that 14.4

0:50:19for the gap. So all said and done, if we

0:50:21kept everything proportional and you'd

0:50:23be spending an additional 30.7 million

0:50:25over the course of, you know, a handful

0:50:28of years. Now, on one hand, good news is

0:50:31we don't have to come up with the money

0:50:33today. You have a couple years, they

0:50:35have two years once the project is

0:50:37announced to get going. Typically

0:50:39speaking, DPI wants you to get going

0:50:41within 12 to 18 months. That's not going

0:50:43to be an issue for these folks. They're

0:50:45already ahead of the curve in that

0:50:46regard. So, um, but if we can flip

0:50:49through these sheets, if you would

0:50:51kindly let me go over these, if you

0:50:53don't mind, the big paper, Mr. Shook,

0:50:55forgive us, but I use the big paper and

0:51:00um, so what the first page you're

0:51:02looking at is just things you all have

0:51:04seen over over time. This is our capital

0:51:08plan at a glance that lays out

0:51:10everything. This is general fund, this

0:51:12is airport, this is landfill, etc. The

0:51:16column that you want to focus on here is

0:51:18the local dollars. These are the local

0:51:20dollars that make the generally speaking

0:51:22the general fund uh CIP, schools

0:51:25included go. That's how we make things

0:51:29go around here. So, right now we're

0:51:31sitting on our capital reserve balance

0:51:33is around $52.8 million. And then the

0:51:36year we're in, we're projecting

0:51:39at the end of the year that we'll have

0:51:40enough slack within all articles of

0:51:42sales tax, all the property tax to add

0:51:45another 23. And then it tapers down. You

0:51:47see there's a good taper off there based

0:51:50on need. Um that won't stay like that

0:51:54forever. I assure you when when the

0:51:56departments turn in their capital plans,

0:51:57you know, there'll be some requests that

0:51:59we haven't seen yet. Um, but this is

0:52:02kind of the overarching plan for the

0:52:03county, including uh our enterprise

0:52:06funds such as the landfield. If you turn

0:52:09the page, so you see the cash we're

0:52:10looking at trying to accumulate. It's 87

0:52:12million. If you turn the page, this

0:52:14right here is just cash.

0:52:18Um, you see the total is 87 million.

0:52:21This is all general fund. And you see

0:52:23it's very heavy in fiscal years 27 and

0:52:2628. And then we see a little slack taper

0:52:28off. Um,

0:52:32did we got the 58 million there down in

0:52:34the bottom? That was our starting

0:52:36balance. And then after you deduct all

0:52:38the things we're anticipating doing, of

0:52:40which you see the schools are in there

0:52:42at 43.8 million roughly between 27 and

0:52:4628. I I might add that um Davidson

0:52:50County Schools, they're they have about

0:52:528.1 million plus or minus that is ready

0:52:55to go and they'll probably be here in a

0:52:57few weeks for their HVAC stuff. They

0:52:59have the three and a half that they

0:53:01didn't they didn't quite jump in on on

0:53:0326 that rolled in the 27 that's

0:53:05earmarked for them. So, they're probably

0:53:07coming soon to go ahead and you know get

0:53:09that those projects underway for their

0:53:11cafeteria HVAC and their uh gymnasium

0:53:14HVACs. Um so you see this is the cash as

0:53:18it stands. This this plan has been in

0:53:20place for quite some time. Um included

0:53:24in these numbers you're seeing for the

0:53:25you know if you see the I don't even

0:53:27know what color you want to call that

0:53:28peach. So the school numbers that's

0:53:31that's got the 15 and a half for

0:53:32Lexington city that's got the 15 and a

0:53:34half for Thomasville. It's got the 12.84

0:53:37and some change for for the city school

0:53:40for the county schools. Um, so you all

0:53:43have seen this. You're familiar with

0:53:44this is kind of how the cash needs to

0:53:46flow and operate. If you turn to the

0:53:48third page,

0:53:50um, this is something you've seen too.

0:53:53This is like a financial model and I'm

0:53:55not going to go over this adnauseium,

0:53:56but what what I want you all to see are

0:53:59a couple of things. Um

0:54:02first of all

0:54:04you uh you know the top half is is our

0:54:06revenues bottom half is expenditures

0:54:08projected year-over-year over year

0:54:10factoring in modest

0:54:12really conservative growth on revenues

0:54:14and a little more aggressive on

0:54:15expenditures because you'd rather go

0:54:17that way than have it flip on you and be

0:54:19be upside down so to speak. Um if you do

0:54:22look in column FY29 you see a good chunk

0:54:26of debt service fall off. So that's a

0:54:28good thing. We're building some debt

0:54:29capacity, you know, and a lot of that

0:54:31could be could very well be schools. If

0:54:34you look down, they got the peach again

0:54:37and then that blue line. I made that

0:54:38blue line. So the la the if you look at

0:54:42the two rows that say possible, one's

0:54:45peach, one's blue. Possible monies to

0:54:47CIP and then possible monies to school

0:54:49CIP. Essentially what I've done there,

0:54:53initially it just said possible monies

0:54:55to CIP. I split out the money to

0:54:57highlight the needs that to make these

0:55:00plans go if we were able to use cash to

0:55:03make

0:55:05Thomasville City Schools go with this

0:55:07project with the matches we need to

0:55:10provide. So to get to the the

0:55:1415 and a half foot basically 30 million

0:55:16let's call it 30 million round for them

0:55:18alone. Plus, this would allow for

0:55:21Davidson County schools and Lexington

0:55:24City Schools to get the proportional,

0:55:26and I'll show you that in just a minute.

0:55:28Um, so these are the possible subtotals.

0:55:31You see what we're working with. We, you

0:55:33know, a smaller amount, but as debt

0:55:36comes off, as you know, things progress

0:55:38over the fiscal years, as some of these

0:55:40other um projects fall off, you we're

0:55:43building capacity potentially. No

0:55:46guarantees here. There's a lot of

0:55:47factors that come into play. So, we have

0:55:50we're not sure what the uh error rates

0:55:52for food stamps. What that's going

0:55:53that's going to have an effect with that

0:55:55key a little bit. You know, we're

0:55:57projecting one and a half to $2 million,

0:55:58but at this point, every bit counts,

0:56:00right? You know, margins can be tight.

0:56:02So,

0:56:04>> can you explain that to Mr. Shook

0:56:05because I'm sure he's sitting here

0:56:06going, "I don't really sure what that

0:56:09is."

0:56:09>> Well, that's fine. And I'd be glad to

0:56:11sit down and explain everything that I

0:56:13know financially around here at some

0:56:14point in time, but you're not going to

0:56:16learn it all in in this conversation.

0:56:18>> But the public

0:56:19>> so essentially the state has federally

0:56:22the big beautiful bill has passed down

0:56:25some some things. We have to key and uh

0:56:28we have an error rate. We have to hit a

0:56:30certain percentage and if we don't hit

0:56:31the error rate, so what people receive

0:56:34in benefits if we overpay or underpay

0:56:37either way it's an error within a

0:56:39certain margin. there's a slim margin

0:56:40for error. Essentially, there's been no

0:56:43penalty for that over the years. Now,

0:56:45there's a penalty where the state has

0:56:47created some formulas where long story

0:56:50short, because I getting convoluted

0:56:52there, the impact on this county could

0:56:54be one and a half to $2 million that

0:56:56they just take from our sales tax

0:56:58articles right off the top before we

0:57:00even see the money. So, we're working,

0:57:03you know, obviously working through

0:57:04that. That wouldn't take effect until

0:57:052028, but that's just a year from now

0:57:08essentially. So those are but all those

0:57:10things, you know, factor in.

0:57:11>> So it could be a million and a half, $2

0:57:13million come out of our budget that we

0:57:15don't have budgeted for. Right.

0:57:16>> Correct.

0:57:18>> That's the bottom line. And like he

0:57:19said, it's a small margin of error that

0:57:21you do there. And

0:57:24>> three more pages. Two are real easy.

0:57:26This one may make y'all a little bit

0:57:28dizzy to look at it, but I want y'all to

0:57:31look at this. If you can hear me, I'll

0:57:32try to explain this. Um

0:57:35>> Tam, can I say one more thing? Since

0:57:37I've worked with DSS for a long time, um

0:57:41the current error rate is you I think in

0:57:44our county is somewhere around eight 8%.

0:57:47>> And the magic mark is six. I think the

0:57:49magic number is 6%. A lot of places

0:57:53across the state have have error rates

0:57:57as much as 12%. Now, it doesn't mean

0:58:00that they're not going to get their what

0:58:03they need. uh they're going to have and

0:58:05they'll probably just go ahead and give

0:58:07it to them. But then we we're on the

0:58:09hook, you know, completely. And it, let

0:58:14me tell you, it's hard to get that error

0:58:16rate down.

0:58:17>> So 6%

0:58:18>> and very very hard. And I'm very worried

0:58:22about this. Very, very worried about it.

0:58:25>> There has been some improvement uh

0:58:27statewide. So we'll see what happens.

0:58:28It's just the way that they do things is

0:58:30a little bit um difficult because they

0:58:32pull every 8,000th case. So every every

0:58:358,000 cases in the state, whatever

0:58:37county that is, they look at that error

0:58:38rate. So

0:58:39>> look at that error and you know, it's

0:58:42just they don't know which one they're

0:58:44going to pick. You know, it's just

0:58:45>> there's a small lesson on DSS and error

0:58:48rate. So

0:58:49>> yes.

0:58:49>> Okay. And you may hit it one year and

0:58:51then you may not the next year. So you

0:58:53got to come up with two million bucks

0:58:54that you wasn't expecting to come up

0:58:55with. So

0:58:56>> the next year, yeah. Can you imagine

0:58:58that?

0:58:59>> Now, if you knock it out of the park,

0:59:00you're still paying a little bit because

0:59:02>> yeah,

0:59:03>> there's a collective pool that they're

0:59:05taking a smaller percentage, but and

0:59:06that's about 270 to 400,000 give or take

0:59:10to this county.

0:59:11>> Thanks, Cam.

0:59:12>> If you look at this third page, you

0:59:14you'll see a lot of boxes.

0:59:16Okay, let's look at what I call the blue

0:59:18box, the top box. That right there, what

0:59:20you're staring at is the current plan as

0:59:23it sits today. So, if you go to the far

0:59:26right hand side, the totals, you see

0:59:27those totals. They look all too familiar

0:59:29to everybody.

0:59:3112.8 for Davidson County, 15 and a half,

0:59:3315 and a half for the cities.

0:59:35Proportionally, I just broke it out so

0:59:36you can see it. 29% 35% and 35%

0:59:40respectively. Um, I included lake

0:59:43judging for a reason, and we'll get to

0:59:44that in just a minute. So, as is we got

0:59:4743.8 in cash available for projects,

0:59:50major capital projects. Um,

0:59:55if you were to look at the green box and

0:59:57say, "Okay, Tim, tell me how we could

0:59:59fund Thomas's project only and what

1:00:01would that do?"

1:00:04You got to basically to make it go in

1:00:07this case with cash, not borrowing.

1:00:11The lake dredging money or future

1:00:13capital needs would bump up the

1:00:15Thomasville. Plus, we'd have to bring

1:00:17another $4.4 $4 million to the table in

1:00:19around fiscal year um 2029 which the

1:00:23timing is is fine to do that. So that

1:00:26takes you to the 29.92 million but you

1:00:30see how the proportions get out of

1:00:32balance there. We go from the 293535 to

1:00:36225127.

1:00:39So finally in the yellow box,

1:00:43how can we make it go potentially with

1:00:45cash and keep those proportions the

1:00:47same? And there's and and side note,

1:00:51Lexington City Schools is probably as we

1:00:53speak working on their application, too.

1:00:56Now, they're definitely not as far ahead

1:00:58as Thomasville, but they're going to

1:01:00probably come to us on the 14th or the

1:01:0228th requesting a similar

1:01:07letter, you know, be or application

1:01:09signature. Um, now this in this case

1:01:12right here, this would allow for

1:01:14potentially to account for their match

1:01:16too in the gap, so to speak. So, what

1:01:18would it take to keep those proportions

1:01:21the same as the blue box? So, we would

1:01:23have to bring anything highlighted in

1:01:24green as new money. we have to bring to

1:01:26the table in these respective fiscal

1:01:28years. So you see for

1:01:31um 2029 we would need to bring an extra

1:01:35$ 8.7 million to the to the plan. If you

1:01:38see that that's adding the two green

1:01:39cells down at the bottom you see that

1:01:41line additional money needed in the

1:01:43plan. So 8.7 8.7 and 8.7 essentially to

1:01:47get you to that 26. You add the 26 to

1:01:50the four up to the green box. That gets

1:01:52you to that magic number I started with.

1:01:5530 30.7 million. That's to keep

1:01:58everything on the level proportionally.

1:02:00You don't have to do that. We get out of

1:02:02proportion sometimes. Um and you may

1:02:05say, why is Davidson County Schools a

1:02:07little out of out of out of balance

1:02:10there? Well, we we did put four and a

1:02:12half and it'll probably be five before

1:02:14it's all said and done toward the the

1:02:15admin building. So if you factor that in

1:02:18and then you know you could play this

1:02:19game all day long. Well, we just gave

1:02:2014.1 to Lexington City and that would we

1:02:24don't have to be balanced by law. It's

1:02:25just one of those things in fairness and

1:02:27when you account for Davidson County

1:02:29schools operating I hear it all the time

1:02:3278% of the buildings you know that they

1:02:34always wonder why they're not getting

1:02:3578% of the the budget and it's just that

1:02:39would be a little bit rough too so to

1:02:41speak. So to sum it all up, if you look

1:02:44down at the bottom

1:02:46um in the last two slides we'll get to

1:02:48in just a second um you can see the

1:02:51additional needed in that in that blue

1:02:55and that matches the blue line from that

1:02:57um financial model.

1:03:00These are monies that we've identified

1:03:02that could very well be available based

1:03:04on even even with the growth factors

1:03:07uh 13.2 2 8.7 you know to get you to

1:03:10that 30.7 million.

1:03:13Now what if we were to borrow

1:03:16basically that 30.7 or 30 I I I said 30

1:03:20here. your debt service for the first

1:03:24four years

1:03:26and I got the I got the whole debt

1:03:28schedule but for the first four years

1:03:29would total 8.9 million or be roughly

1:03:32the the initial payment in 2028 would be

1:03:35you know just a small payment and then

1:03:36you would then you would pay annual

1:03:38payments of around 2.8 2.9 million and

1:03:40it would it would taper down. Um,

1:03:44so in within this plan, you're looking

1:03:46at 8.9 millions of debt service through

1:03:49just 2031. But if you turn the page, two

1:03:52more slides,

1:03:54you all are familiar with this. I mean,

1:03:55you've seen it. This is the the debt

1:03:58bars as is. This is right now. This is

1:04:00where we are. Um,

1:04:04>> yeah.

1:04:06Sorry. I should have had to do that. I

1:04:09would have appreciated that probably

1:04:10five minutes ago.

1:04:12So

1:04:15everybody's seen this practically. We

1:04:17have our current debt in blue potential

1:04:19uh detention center renovation at the 72

1:04:22million mark. So keep that in mind if

1:04:24that changes if that project changes up

1:04:26down probably not down but up.

1:04:29>> Um that green's going to grow. And then

1:04:31we got Oak Grove debt that is that is

1:04:34covered through article 46, but it's

1:04:37still on there just to show how the debt

1:04:39service is. In the year we're in 2027,

1:04:42we're at about $12.7 billion of debt

1:04:44service. Anticipated next year would be

1:04:46the same 12.7. But then you see a

1:04:48massive drop off which coincides with

1:04:50what I showed you on that financial

1:04:51model of about 3.8 dropping off. So that

1:04:55gives you uh a little bit of capacity

1:04:58there potentially. So you see after that

1:05:01I think we used to call that like the

1:05:02roller coaster you know we're on the

1:05:04downhill trajectory or trajectory and

1:05:07that gives you you know some borrowing

1:05:09capacity um if we so choose. Now are

1:05:13good compelling reasons to borrow money

1:05:15especially with education. We do have

1:05:17sales tax articles that are specifically

1:05:21for education capital. So that's what a

1:05:24lot of our article 40 and 42 is paying

1:05:26for through debt service. um plus the 44

1:05:29and 46. But finally, flip the page and

1:05:32this is just really rough estimate that

1:05:35I got from our from the folks we work

1:05:37with that provide a lot of um that help

1:05:40us sell debt essentially because it's a

1:05:42pretty complex matter. Um if we were to

1:05:45borrow that $30 million, so that's what

1:05:48you're seeing that new debt and yellow

1:05:50and it extends out our our payout one

1:05:53more year.

1:05:56our 12.7 jumps up to close to 14

1:06:00and then it does take a drop, but that's

1:06:02because the the other debts dropping

1:06:06and we basically maintain a $12 million

1:06:09debt service instead of what 8.8 or 8 8

1:06:12and a half. A little bit longer and it

1:06:14gradually dwindles back down, but for

1:06:17the foreseeable future, you're at at

1:06:20least $10 million of debt service until

1:06:222034.

1:06:24And that's just keep in mind that's once

1:06:26again with the jail at you know

1:06:28borrowing 41 million for the jail and no

1:06:30more than that. So and and borrowing 30

1:06:33million for those school projects I'd

1:06:35mentioned.

1:06:37So I just wanted to kind of paint the

1:06:39financial picture a little bit. Um,

1:06:44and once again,

1:06:46we do have a little bit of the benefit

1:06:47of time

1:06:50because we, you know, we we have this,

1:06:52we've been saving money every year,

1:06:53right now. We saved a lot last year at

1:06:57the end of last year. I don't hopefully

1:06:59we don't need to get into that because

1:07:00that would be a little bit more taxing,

1:07:02especially with the jail coming on mine

1:07:04eventually, you know, all those things.

1:07:07But um there is a potential to float

1:07:10some of this more in cash and

1:07:12potentially if we have to borrow borrow

1:07:13less. The good news about the borrowing

1:07:14it doesn't happen have to happen today.

1:07:16It could happen you know in 18 to 24

1:07:19months.

1:07:21>> That's with the jail costing 70 million.

1:07:23Right.

1:07:23>> That's right. Now I ran some numbers. I

1:07:26real I don't have the the slides. I'm

1:07:28sure y'all are tired of looking at

1:07:30slides anyhow. But I did look at the um

1:07:33the bigger option if if we like a $ 101

1:07:36million jail and that debt service tops

1:07:38out at like $18.1 million

1:07:41>> which it which it it kind of does the

1:07:44bars kind of move the same but you're

1:07:45going to be at 18.1 and then dwindle

1:07:48down. It's going to take a while to get

1:07:49down to the 14 15 you know 16 and then

1:07:53it'll fall back down of course over the

1:07:55years. um

1:07:57>> didn't uh wasn't the last estimate for

1:08:00the jail the last because we haven't had

1:08:02a jail committee meeting in a long time.

1:08:05>> Wasn't the last cost estimate about a

1:08:08hundred

1:08:10>> depends on the 100 size and scope of the

1:08:14project. Exactly. If you the the right

1:08:17now as as

1:08:18>> if you go with the big biggest option is

1:08:20about 100 to 105.

1:08:24>> Um

1:08:25>> okay one more question. [clears throat]

1:08:27How many years did Oak Grove did that we

1:08:31borrow money for Oak Grove that we we're

1:08:34paying back? Do you know that? Just

1:08:36curious. It just seems like a long time.

1:08:39>> Probably 20 years.

1:08:40>> 20 years probably. Yeah, that's what it

1:08:42looks like there based on school open

1:08:44what 2015 2016

1:08:46>> what do you remember what the cost for

1:08:47that school was

1:08:49>> 57 million I think it was in the 50s yes

1:08:52>> in the 50s um one other thing too I keep

1:08:55seeing Oakrove High School we had a

1:08:58middle school there too that I'm sure

1:09:00that's in those numbers that

1:09:01>> probably we just generically say Oak

1:09:03>> Right that's not that's not fair to them

1:09:06because it's okay

1:09:07>> there's more stuff into that that note

1:09:10than just Oak Grove High School,

1:09:12>> but the bulk of it is covering the high

1:09:13school debt. But yeah, and some of that

1:09:15middle school debt could be in the blue,

1:09:16>> but okay. [clears throat]

1:09:17>> Essentially, cuz it came online.

1:09:19>> I just wanted

1:09:20>> few years before, right?

1:09:21>> Yeah.

1:09:22>> Right.

1:09:22>> Few years before. So, I don't know what

1:09:24all's in that number.

1:09:27>> Now, one other thing, good news is once

1:09:29that oak debt

1:09:32continues to to draw down, that frees up

1:09:35more education money because that's what

1:09:37that money's earmarked for. So,

1:09:39>> so also I'm looking here at the added

1:09:42jail staff and debt 4.2 million. So,

1:09:46that's you've got that that's on part of

1:09:48the $41 million um

1:09:54$41 million debt is what I'm saying. You

1:09:57got

1:09:59>> that's that's actually separate in a

1:10:02part. It's factored into the plan, but

1:10:03that's just operating. It's not part of

1:10:06the debt. Oh, this is Oh, it says debt

1:10:08added jail staff and debt. So,

1:10:10>> but so what what that's taken in You're

1:10:12right. I'm sorry. That is adding the

1:10:15debt service for the jail plus the

1:10:17operation. I can't remember the exact

1:10:19breakout for it. You know, the the

1:10:21actual operation bringing on staff is

1:10:24probably half of that amount or probably

1:10:27less. It may be a million of that 4.2

1:10:30you're looking at. It may be a million

1:10:31one or so. I'd have to I have that

1:10:33number but I can't.

1:10:34>> Okay. And then you got a million three

1:10:36the next year. So

1:10:38>> um also I notic in physical year 2028

1:10:41you got our revenues coming down by like

1:10:434 million. What's what's the reason for

1:10:46that? We got 232 million in revenues in

1:10:492027.

1:10:51You project 228 million.

1:10:54>> So that's based off of

1:10:57>> that's the only year it goes down. So

1:10:59I'm just trying

1:10:59>> reliance on and this was built by

1:11:03the uh Mr. Smith but and he's he's

1:11:06right. This is reducing uh reliance on

1:11:10or banking on quote interest.

1:11:12>> I got your interest on our money.

1:11:14>> Some snap reimbursement and some of the

1:11:16QC gap reimbursement qualified school

1:11:17bonds that we got. So that's where

1:11:19>> that's probably a fair number. That's

1:11:21correct. That could be. Yeah. Okay.

1:11:23>> Now anything above and beyond if we if

1:11:25we collect the interest that's good. put

1:11:28it in the capital reserve for future

1:11:29capital needs. But that was, you know,

1:11:31being real cautious with that because of

1:11:34the potential volatility there.

1:11:36>> I mean, that's 4 million bucks that

1:11:39coming off. Okay, that's all the

1:11:41questions.

1:11:42>> So, we have options, but Dr. Shotwell is

1:11:44really just asking today, will y'all

1:11:46sign an application essentially?

1:11:48>> Yes, sir. You know, the and Mr.

1:11:51Meiselle, I appreciate your comment

1:11:53about Hope County. You're right. It's

1:11:54only one high school with about uh 2,800

1:11:57kids in it. But for us, you know, uh I

1:12:01was using that as an example to because

1:12:03it's basically it's going to look very

1:12:05similar to that and what the cost

1:12:06estimates were for there. I was there

1:12:07when they opened up the bids for that.

1:12:10Um but you know, the the thing that's

1:12:12going to happen is the needs don't go

1:12:14away and the prices are still going to

1:12:16keep rising and it's an opportunity. You

1:12:19know, I I try to look at it too because

1:12:21it's like and I understand I have two

1:12:23boys. And I remember how my dad used to

1:12:25treat me and my brother. If one got it,

1:12:27the other one got it cuz like sometimes

1:12:30he would send me uh like $500. I'm like,

1:12:32"What do I have this money for?" And he

1:12:34goes, "I had to give your brother some

1:12:36money." Okay. You know, for whatever

1:12:38reason. Uh, and it's the same thing that

1:12:40I do with my own children, you know,

1:12:42whatever we paid for, cuz my youngest

1:12:44one's always watching what the other

1:12:45one's getting and he's expecting that to

1:12:48happen.

1:12:50What I'm looking at is is not just for

1:12:52Thomasville, but I'm really looking for

1:12:53Davidson County because if you do have a

1:12:56new high school for us and a new high

1:12:59school for Lexington down the road,

1:13:02that's going to be more for drawing

1:13:04people into this county. You already

1:13:05have people moving in here. You've got a

1:13:07lot of homes that are being planned and

1:13:09I know that our district has been

1:13:12restricted by our boundaries. Uh but at

1:13:15the same time, when we talked about last

1:13:17time, are there ways that we can share?

1:13:19Absolutely. You know, school districts

1:13:21work with each other a whole lot easier

1:13:23than than people think. And if there's a

1:13:25CTE program that we offer over there,

1:13:28then the kids on that side of the county

1:13:29at East Davidson or other places can

1:13:31come over there and take the classes

1:13:32with us. I would hope that the same

1:13:34thing would be afforded back to my our

1:13:36children if it was something offered at

1:13:37East Davidson that I would allow my kids

1:13:40to go over there and take those courses

1:13:42because we have to be in this thing

1:13:43together. And I'm and I'm just looking

1:13:45at the long-term viability of what that

1:13:49campus can do for our kids if we're

1:13:52looking at 20 years from now, even with

1:13:55$15 million in renovations. Because Tim

1:13:57and I when we first met, we both agreed

1:13:59not to talk about that's not enough. and

1:14:02and I'll just I'll end it there because

1:14:04it's not going to be enough and the

1:14:06prices keep going up. Like I said, I'm

1:14:08I'm spending a million dollars just to

1:14:10repair plumbing and a roof in one

1:14:14building

1:14:16and and if I if I stay out of it too

1:14:18long, then I have to worry about ADA

1:14:21compliance because my bathrooms at my

1:14:23original buildings over there are quite

1:14:25narrow

1:14:27and it's not for wheelchair

1:14:28accessibility. I don't even have an

1:14:30elevator in that in that building. So

1:14:32the ch the children if they're taking a

1:14:34class downstairs, they have to come out

1:14:36of the building and go down a ramp and

1:14:38go into the classroom.

1:14:40All those things would be addressed with

1:14:43a new high school. And you know, I I'll

1:14:46be honest with you, I thought it was

1:14:47very persuasive knowing that you did not

1:14:49have to borrow the $62 million to build

1:14:52a $92 million school. And if it's our

1:14:56tax dollars being paid that another

1:14:58school district's going to get, I would

1:15:00rather it come back here and we get the

1:15:02benefit of that. Now, the other thing

1:15:05too is they also passed in the general

1:15:08uh assembly that districts do not with

1:15:10multiple districts in their uh county

1:15:13don't have to wait three years before

1:15:15they can ask for needs-based grant

1:15:16because that would also accelerate cost.

1:15:19Ashboro and Randolph County ran into

1:15:21that. Randolph County wanted to have a

1:15:22needs-based grant, but Ashboro had

1:15:24already gotten one. And so they were

1:15:27they couldn't submit for three years.

1:15:29And so that's been addressed in

1:15:31legislation as well. I I stand before

1:15:33you as as a public school guy. The best

1:15:36job I ever had in my life was being

1:15:37principal of Lexon Senior High School

1:15:39because that's when I still got to deal

1:15:41with children, you know, and see people

1:15:44to success. As a superintendent, I still

1:15:48advocate for them. I just deal with

1:15:49adults all day. and they're not as much

1:15:52fun.

1:15:54I mean, just quite frankly, I just got

1:15:55to tell you, they're it's never the kids

1:15:57that's causing me to stay up at night.

1:16:00It's always the adults. However, I stand

1:16:03before you today on behalf of my close

1:16:06to 575 kids at Thomasville High School.

1:16:11We also came out of low performing.

1:16:13We're no longer a low performing

1:16:14district. Everything's trending in the

1:16:16right direction. If you looked at all of

1:16:18our data, misconception, our principles

1:16:21and our teachers have done a great job

1:16:23moving our kids forward and it's

1:16:25happening from the primary school level

1:16:27up because our kids are leaving the

1:16:30primary school at a much higher

1:16:31proficiency rate and that's helping us

1:16:34long term. And our our our students of

1:16:37color made double digit gains in a lot

1:16:39of the areas and a lot of the grade

1:16:41levels. And so we're well on our way. We

1:16:43have a lot of improvement to do, but

1:16:45there's a lot of good things that's

1:16:47happening there, and we would like to

1:16:48continue to do that. And I just implore

1:16:50you to please look at every possibility.

1:16:53And uh I understand that I'm one of two

1:16:55children,

1:16:57but please take that under

1:16:58consideration. And I just want to save

1:17:00the county $86.5 million in having to

1:17:03finance this if you did it all by

1:17:05yourself with no assistance.

1:17:09>> I'd just like to say one other thing

1:17:10that I hadn't thought about. We've got

1:17:13needs in Davidson County schools in

1:17:16terms of the in the northern section. We

1:17:19know that Wahberg, you know, Wahberg is

1:17:22completely

1:17:23>> Yeah.

1:17:25>> It's it's it's in a bad way and we're

1:17:28going to have to address that and it's

1:17:30nowhere in here, right?

1:17:33>> Nowhere in here. So, that's another

1:17:36thing to consider. Uh, you know, and I'm

1:17:38not trying to be negative. I I'm not

1:17:41trying to be negative. It's just that uh

1:17:44we do try to um

1:17:46>> watch our money and we

1:17:48>> Well, I think that's why we're in a

1:17:50place where we are, Madam Chair, because

1:17:52you know, when when people look at it,

1:17:54it's I'm with the company that I'm

1:17:55working for, we're in Person County,

1:17:57they're the same way. They're very

1:17:58conservative about their money. So the

1:18:00needsbased grant in terms of the debt

1:18:01service side it it really kept it kept

1:18:04pushing them down to when there was 94

1:18:06applications last year they were at 57.

1:18:10If you took away that debt service

1:18:11piece, they would have jumped up into

1:18:13the 20s with every other factor here for

1:18:17us, you know, and this would help

1:18:19Davidson County with the needs-based

1:18:21grant down the road if if if this is

1:18:24taken care of with both Thomasville and

1:18:27Lexington because your debt service

1:18:28would be different along with and it

1:18:30also accounts for your jail. So, it's

1:18:33not just debt service for schools, but

1:18:34it's debt service overall. But as I used

1:18:37to live on Ward Curry Road and I

1:18:40appreciated my very low tax bill every

1:18:43year. I'll be honest with you and I

1:18:46appreciate that and I just want to do

1:18:47the same thing by allowing us a way to

1:18:49be able to bring $62 million in here

1:18:51that you don't have to pay back.

1:18:53>> And I again I appreciate your time and

1:18:56on behalf of everyone with Thomasville

1:18:57City Schools, thank you for your

1:18:59consideration and I look forward to a a

1:19:02much positive outcome.

1:19:06Thank you.

1:19:10>> Are you looking for an answer today?

1:19:17>> The applications are due October 2nd. So

1:19:19I don't know

1:19:20>> I don't know if you all have a fully

1:19:23prepared application just yet, but

1:19:24they're due October 2nd. So

1:19:26>> if we have it ready.

1:19:27>> Okay. So, we would

1:19:29the for me I think we could put it on

1:19:32the uh consent agenda for the 14th

1:19:35unless you all wanted to you know if you

1:19:37want to move on if you're amendable to

1:19:39that that's that's just to sign off on

1:19:41the application for this for them to

1:19:44apply for the 62 million if you if you

1:19:46you also choose.

1:19:48>> But if but but we're committing to it if

1:19:51we we we're committing to it. That's

1:19:54>> how much we're committing to how much

1:19:56>> you're essentially committing

1:19:57>> 30 million 30 million.

1:19:59>> We've already done 15. So we're not

1:20:01committing to 30

1:20:03>> total. So an additional 14.3 roughly

1:20:06>> 14

1:20:07>> unless we vote

1:20:08>> to do it.

1:20:09>> Okay.

1:20:10>> If you put it on the consent agenda,

1:20:11we're saying we're going to

1:20:13>> and you run into

1:20:15naturally if if they're not selected,

1:20:18which has been happening unfortunately.

1:20:20>> Yeah. Um,

1:20:23like I say, city elections coming next.

1:20:24You said they coming in two or three

1:20:26weeks.

1:20:26>> They're coming in two or three. How many

1:20:28applied across the state and how many

1:20:30grants did they give out last year? Do

1:20:32you know?

1:20:33>> There were 94 applications

1:20:37and I am thinking there were I believe

1:20:42[snorts] 17 or 18 that were awarded. The

1:20:46thing that helps us is that school

1:20:47consolidation.

1:20:49That's that's another point because that

1:20:52was another thing that we had a uh an

1:20:54issue with with some of the other

1:20:55clients that we've represented. They

1:20:57weren't consolidating schools. They were

1:20:58trying to replace a school and it didn't

1:21:00get the same amount of points. If you

1:21:02look at a lot of the schools that were

1:21:04given the grant last year, it was

1:21:06consolidating two schools and we do have

1:21:08two school numbers for the alternative

1:21:10school and for Thomasville High School

1:21:12and that will put us at the top of that

1:21:13category. And then when you add in the

1:21:15CTE being the the focus for our entire

1:21:18LEA, I know even though we have one high

1:21:21school, that still meets the the point

1:21:23of the law. That's another high point

1:21:25that we've not had before. And so that's

1:21:28that's something to take in

1:21:29consideration. Yes, ma'am.

1:21:35>> The 15 that we gave last year, Tim,

1:21:39whose money is that now? Is that still

1:21:41in our account?

1:21:42>> It's still right. Where did that go? Or

1:21:43is that air marked Fort Thomas

1:21:45>> earmarked? But it's it sits with us.

1:21:48>> Okay. So the the motion that you're

1:21:50looking for, you said put it in consent

1:21:53agenda is for the approval

1:21:57of of Thomas Hill going forward

1:22:00and we are pledging to go approximately

1:22:0515

1:22:06>> million

1:22:06>> million more

1:22:07>> more.

1:22:08>> Right.

1:22:08>> Right. We're not appropriating anything

1:22:10today, but Yes, sir. in the future if

1:22:12they if they are awarded this grant then

1:22:14that's where the rubber meets the road.

1:22:15That's where we're going to have to get

1:22:16serious about the funding. But still we

1:22:18have the benefit of we got 15 and a half

1:22:21we could get them going plus the 62. So

1:22:24that you know that that could get the

1:22:25project going and as we save money

1:22:27that's where some of this floating more

1:22:29with cash could come into play in the

1:22:31out years. That's why I wanted to

1:22:33highlight that we don't have to have it

1:22:34all. Now naturally you're going to have

1:22:36to come up with that gap over the time.

1:22:39That's where either borrowing takes off

1:22:41a little less pressure, you know, that

1:22:43that's less pressure on the front end,

1:22:44more payment down the road, right?

1:22:46Because you're going to pay more in debt

1:22:48service over the course of time. That's

1:22:49how it works. You buy a house for

1:22:51100,000, well, you can't get one now for

1:22:53that probably. But if you bought a house

1:22:55for 150 and finance it for 30 years,

1:22:58you're probably going to pay threefold

1:22:59that amount. That's just the way it

1:23:01works. Um, it wouldn't be quite that

1:23:02aggressive for us to borrow. It'd be

1:23:06more like 30 would probably pay out

1:23:07between 42 and 50 over the span of time

1:23:11depending on what rates are doing.

1:23:13>> And and if Lexington is coming in two

1:23:17weeks, they're probably going to want an

1:23:19additional 15 as well.

1:23:21>> Right. That's why I built that plan.

1:23:22They're they're actually I can't

1:23:24remember the exact dollar amount, but

1:23:26the last time their project was a little

1:23:27bigger on the dollars around 99.

1:23:30>> Yeah. But that's where I put that

1:23:32proportional plan, you know, option in

1:23:35place that would give them exactly the

1:23:36same amount as Thomasville. So that

1:23:38would permit them, if they were granted

1:23:41a $62 million grant, they would be

1:23:43basically building a $93 million school.

1:23:47I mean, that's

1:23:50in other words, if they came asking for

1:23:51a little bit more, you know, you may go,

1:23:53you know, they may want six million

1:23:54more, right? I don't know. And that

1:23:57that's where that's not factored into

1:23:59this plan. And I just kind of out

1:24:02outlined

1:24:02>> just need to get a consensus of the

1:24:03board where they want to go with this.

1:24:05>> That's right.

1:24:07>> Or instead of consent, we could put it

1:24:09on for deliberation.

1:24:09>> Let's get a consensus of the board

1:24:11whether we want to move forward or not.

1:24:13>> That's right.

1:24:14>> So you want to pull the board?

1:24:16>> Yes. I'm going start with

1:24:18>> board with specifics there.

1:24:20>> Yeah.

1:24:20>> Exactly. What are we going forward or

1:24:22not going forward?

1:24:23>> I'd feel better put it on the 14th

1:24:26>> so we have a little more time to discuss

1:24:27it among ourselves.

1:24:31That we said earlier we were talking

1:24:32about putting it on the meeting for

1:24:36the consent agenda but we want

1:24:38>> a consent agenda.

1:24:40>> But you you all can put it on

1:24:42deliberation and talk about it for more.

1:24:44>> Well, I know we can, but do we need to

1:24:46>> do we need to is the question?

1:24:48>> We need a consensus of the board whether

1:24:50they want to move forward with spending

1:24:53$30 million. And like I say, you got

1:24:55Lexon coming. So you can add 15 more to

1:24:58that. So I would guess 45 million.

1:25:03>> I think

1:25:04>> really just 30 million. I guess

1:25:05>> I think it's a little bit confusing

1:25:07though cuz we've already designated 15

1:25:09million,

1:25:10>> right? So

1:25:10>> we're not talking about 30 edition.

1:25:12We're talking about 15.

1:25:14>> No, you're talking about 30 for both

1:25:15schools.

1:25:16>> For both schools coming for both

1:25:18schools, but not 45.

1:25:19>> Well, I made a mistake there. You have

1:25:2130 million.

1:25:23So, what do you think, Steve? This is

1:25:25your first day. What's [laughter]

1:25:29>> uh

1:25:32I know you were talking about

1:25:34consolidating

1:25:35your two schools there.

1:25:38And you say how many students are we

1:25:41talking with both of them. Is that the

1:25:43500 and some students?

1:25:45>> No, it'd be closer to probably 600.

1:25:48>> 600 total when you bring the two

1:25:50together. Yeah. it it's you know in a

1:25:53way schools are identified by school

1:25:55numbers and so Bulldog Academy actually

1:25:57has a separate school number.

1:25:58>> Okay.

1:25:59>> And and so it does qualify for

1:26:01consolidation.

1:26:03>> That's interesting.

1:26:04>> It it is.

1:26:05>> Yes, ma'am.

1:26:06>> So that would give them maybe a little

1:26:09heads up on

1:26:11>> That's what he's saying.

1:26:12>> Yeah.

1:26:12>> Yeah.

1:26:15[clears throat and cough]

1:26:19And my understanding too is there may be

1:26:21something in a technical corrections

1:26:23bill that may change how uh city

1:26:25districts are viewed as opposed to the

1:26:28debt service doesn't totally account

1:26:30from the whole county which could

1:26:31potentially move uh us and about three

1:26:34other city districts

1:26:37up near the top in terms of being able

1:26:38to receive the grant. But that's still

1:26:41that's only being talked about. That's

1:26:42nothing concrete. I don't believe it

1:26:44until I see it. And to bring you up to

1:26:46speed, Steve, how many times they

1:26:48applied for this grant? Two or three?

1:26:50>> This is the third or fourth, probably.

1:26:52>> Third or fourth. So, at the end of the

1:26:54last last year,

1:26:56>> right?

1:26:56>> Everybody was in a decision that if it

1:26:59didn't work last year, we just going to

1:27:02give one school 15 million, the other

1:27:04school 15 million, and let them start

1:27:06doing some rehabilitation to their

1:27:08existing schools. Correct. And everybody

1:27:10was in agreement that that's the way we

1:27:12was going. So this year Thomasville come

1:27:14up just you know said we want to do it

1:27:17again. Well y'all agreed last year that

1:27:20you know

1:27:22we was just going to apply 15 million to

1:27:24each school. So I think that's where

1:27:25some of this this hesitation

1:27:28>> that's the ang that comes along with

1:27:30>> if they don't get it in this year again

1:27:32then where do we go next year you know

1:27:34and at the same time these schools need

1:27:36some work on them. So, um, so is that is

1:27:40that a pretty fair way to say that?

1:27:42>> Yeah. And that kind of aligns with what

1:27:44we discussed previously, um, which was

1:27:47kind of staying the course. It's not

1:27:48that there's not value in in getting

1:27:51that school. I I guess for me, I'm just

1:27:53hesitant with the the amount

1:27:55>> of money that we would need to to take

1:27:58and move. And then if we do have debt on

1:28:01top of the the debt you've already shown

1:28:03us where a lot of it's not going to

1:28:04start coming off till maybe 10 years

1:28:07from now

1:28:07>> 10 years from now

1:28:08>> which then might free us up to to

1:28:10revisit. But I I don't want to I don't

1:28:14want to tie our hands with additional

1:28:16debt when we need to act. We we got a

1:28:18lot of other things coming. You

1:28:19mentioned the jail. We know we heard

1:28:21from the fire chiefs recently about

1:28:23their needs. I mean, we I think we'd

1:28:27lose some flexibility and agility in

1:28:29that. And again, I'm

1:28:32always a proponent of of public schools.

1:28:34It's just I'm very hesitant to

1:28:38move away from that plan that we all had

1:28:40agreed to

1:28:41>> because it was just like y'all say

1:28:44>> one year ago was 15. Now it's another

1:28:4615.

1:28:46>> Yeah.

1:28:47>> That's what's got me concerned.

1:28:50>> And I, Madam Chair, if I may.

1:28:51>> Yes. Go ahead. um you know, the the

1:28:53superintendent that have been here

1:28:55before don't have as an extensive

1:28:58building and uh facilities background

1:29:01that I do. And so I've been able to

1:29:03assess myself based on what I've been

1:29:06looking at across North Carolina helping

1:29:08other districts and uh and and that's

1:29:11why I'm here to ask because it's it more

1:29:14than likely next year the cost of

1:29:16building this high school is going to be

1:29:17well uh north of a hundred million or

1:29:19more. and it it probably will price us

1:29:23out here. But if we invest in the in my

1:29:27school and Lexon school and Davidson

1:29:29County schools, you're getting more

1:29:31people in here. As you get more people

1:29:32in here, you're bringing more industry

1:29:34in. And I know where your your tax

1:29:36dollars are coming from. It's not just

1:29:37coming from the the millage rate on the

1:29:39personal property. It's coming from the

1:29:41manufacturing and the facilities that

1:29:44are here. That's where you get a lot of

1:29:45it from. We just want to be a part of

1:29:47that and to be able to make that happen.

1:29:49And I do understand that people made an

1:29:51agreement, but I told y'all the story

1:29:52about, you know, why did the pretty why

1:29:54did the ugly guy get a date with the

1:29:55pretty girl? Because he was the only one

1:29:56that asked. And I had to ask. I I I

1:29:59could not leave this interimship

1:30:02without advocating for them because I

1:30:04feel very strongly. And I and I would

1:30:06advocate for for Lexington, too, because

1:30:08I' I've been there. One of the things

1:30:10that we're also not having to spend,

1:30:11we're not going to have to spend a

1:30:12million half dollars for modular units

1:30:14to relocate our kids. our kids are going

1:30:16to stay in the same building while the

1:30:18new school's being built.

1:30:19>> So, but again, I just thank you for your

1:30:22consideration. Please reach out to me,

1:30:25call me. Uh I'll I'll give Tim my cell

1:30:27phone number. If you got any questions,

1:30:29please reach out and uh and talk to me

1:30:32because I would I would love to be able

1:30:34to help help you all and help

1:30:36Thomasville at the same time. Thank you.

1:30:38>> Thank you.

1:30:40Do we still need to make a decision

1:30:42though because there's no need of

1:30:43Thomasville coming or Lexon coming two

1:30:46weeks from now or three if we stay in

1:30:49the course. So

1:30:51my vote would be stay the course and I

1:30:53second that.

1:30:54>> Okay.

1:30:55>> I'm thinking that's

1:30:57>> okay. Stay the course. Stay the course.

1:31:00Okay. That's we have a consensus.

1:31:03Okay.

1:31:05[clears throat]

1:31:11All right, we're going to move forward

1:31:13with um item number C. We have a

1:31:16presentation by CCR

1:31:19uh to provide an update on their

1:31:21consulting services in association with

1:31:23the opioid settlement funds. Thank you

1:31:26for coming and uh go ahead

1:31:30>> commissioners. Thank you guys for an

1:31:32opportunity to speak with you today.

1:31:34Commissioner Shook, congratulations and

1:31:36again, condolences to the board um for

1:31:38the passing of your colleague uh

1:31:40Commissioner Mccclure.

1:31:43Debbie, does this does this work or

1:31:47>> We should be live.

1:31:49>> Look at that. Okay.

1:31:52I I [clears throat] know uh you guys

1:31:53have a packed agenda, so I'll be quick.

1:31:56Um I think you guys will have access to

1:31:58this PowerPoint. Um, first couple of

1:32:01things that we want to talk about is

1:32:03just a quick overview of option A. Just

1:32:06a reminder, option A are interventions

1:32:10to uh address opioid addiction that have

1:32:13been proven to have outcomes, positive

1:32:16outcomes uh across the country. and

1:32:20they're in the North Carolina MOA such

1:32:23that if you uh choose to use one of

1:32:27those interventions uh and it's approved

1:32:30by by the state, there's no more work

1:32:32that needs to be done other than

1:32:34approving the the funds for the for the

1:32:36intervention. Uh so there's 12 of them

1:32:39and what I tried to do is give

1:32:42[clears throat] you an example of uh in

1:32:45each one of them what might be in a part

1:32:48of that uh uh intervention. So

1:32:53the first one doesn't have an example

1:32:55because we're going to talk about that

1:32:57one a little bit more uh later. But just

1:32:59if you go through these and I won't I

1:33:01won't um uh read them to you but

1:33:04evidence-based addiction treatment. So

1:33:06when when you hear that, think about

1:33:08things like MAT, OOTT, um uh in the

1:33:13criminal justice system as an example or

1:33:15if we look at um recovery housing and

1:33:19support. So that could be things like

1:33:21rental assistance, movein deposits, uh

1:33:24funding recovery housing programs uh for

1:33:27those that are receiving MAT. So each

1:33:29one of these strategies have items that

1:33:32fit within them. Um and you can do

1:33:35those. is you can make the decision to

1:33:37fund a program that fits into one of

1:33:39these 12 slots. Uh couple of more uh

1:33:42examples here and again with each one

1:33:46tried to kind of give you some examples

1:33:49of those. I want to contradict option A

1:33:54with option B. Option B is a larger,

1:33:58more broad

1:34:00uh menu of approved strategies,

1:34:04but it requires a documented planning

1:34:07process that we'll talk more about in

1:34:09just a moment uh before you can use

1:34:11those funds. So, with option A, if you

1:34:15uh chose to uh support a funding

1:34:18opportunity, you could do that. send the

1:34:20the uh request into the state, it's

1:34:23approved, funding can happen. With

1:34:25option B, there are several steps that

1:34:28you have to meet before you can use the

1:34:31funding uh for one of those projects. I

1:34:33gave just a couple of examples

1:34:36of option B that's not part of option A.

1:34:40You you'll see that they're not mutually

1:34:41exclusive. So there are some things that

1:34:44are in option A that you know might also

1:34:47look like it would work in option B, but

1:34:49there are some things that are a little

1:34:51bit different in option B. So um

1:34:54expanded uh treatment infrastructure. So

1:34:57maybe it's not that we need a new uh uh

1:35:00treatment facility, but modality like uh

1:35:03teleaalth expansion or uh scholarships

1:35:06for addiction professionals to get folks

1:35:09in your county that can provide the

1:35:10services that are needed by uh

1:35:12individuals um leadership planning and

1:35:16data infrastructure. So when we start

1:35:18talking about millions of dollars to

1:35:21funding programs,

1:35:23a lot of uh counties want to know that

1:35:26they have good processes in place to

1:35:29monitor how the outcome the the the

1:35:32return on those investments. Right?

1:35:37if you want to go down the option B

1:35:39route. To this point, it's my

1:35:41understanding that uh Davidson County

1:35:44has [clears throat] uh moved toward it

1:35:46with option A.

1:35:48Option B is still an option if if you

1:35:51had something that you wanted to fund,

1:35:54but in order to do that, we have to

1:35:56satisfy all of the items that are in uh

1:35:59the MOA in exhibit C. So exhibit C

1:36:03includes things like um engaging a broad

1:36:07range of stakeholders, local officials,

1:36:09health care, etc. We would have to

1:36:11demonstrate [clears throat]

1:36:12that that's happened, right? Um

1:36:15designating a neutral facilitator for

1:36:17this entire process. Identify root

1:36:20causes, population level indicators, and

1:36:23a vision for uh community change. All of

1:36:26these steps have to happen. then it has

1:36:29to be presented back to this board for

1:36:32approval and then sent to the state

1:36:35before funds could be used for any of

1:36:37those option B. So again the the value

1:36:39of option A is it is immediate help and

1:36:43support uh for the people of Davidson

1:36:45County. The value of option B is

1:36:48potentially a a a broader uh or more

1:36:52focused uh ability to help. Uh but it

1:36:55does require some steps uh for that to

1:36:58happen.

1:37:03We wanted to use this opportunity

1:37:06not just to talk about option A and

1:37:07option B and I'm happy to answer any

1:37:09questions that I can uh for that or

1:37:11research it for you. Um but we wanted to

1:37:14give just a couple of updates uh uh as

1:37:17to what we've been doing over the last

1:37:18couple of months.

1:37:21Uh one of the things that is a big kind

1:37:23of cornerstone of what we're trying to

1:37:25do is uh support uh a gaps analysis uh

1:37:29from the county. And we've done that,

1:37:31you know, I think of it as like a

1:37:33three-legged stool, right? So there's a

1:37:35couple of different ways we're doing

1:37:36that. The first way is we developed a

1:37:39short community survey. We're going to

1:37:41talk about u early results of that

1:37:43survey in just a moment. Uh we have also

1:37:46created a document uh that will use the

1:37:49menu of local actions. This is a gaps

1:37:53analysis for counties to help us

1:37:55identify what is already happening in

1:37:58the county and what's not and which

1:38:01areas that there might be gaps or

1:38:03immediate areas that we might want to

1:38:05focus on. And then the last one is

1:38:08working with uh partners, your local

1:38:11tailored plan uh that covers Davidson

1:38:14County around a sequential intercept

1:38:17mapping uh process. So you'll hear it

1:38:20referred to as SIM. Um and it looks at

1:38:23the criminal justice system from before

1:38:27folks are incarcerated

1:38:29through that incarceration process,

1:38:31jail, um re-entry, etc. uh and looks at

1:38:36gaps. Uh you know what [clears throat]

1:38:39this allows us to do is there might be a

1:38:42desire, you know, counties sometimes

1:38:44have um drug courts.

1:38:47So you might think that drug court would

1:38:50be a good option for Davidson County.

1:38:53Instead of just assuming that or

1:38:55thinking that, the SIM allows us to walk

1:38:57through a process to demonstrate it is

1:39:00absolutely a gap and it's something that

1:39:02could be uh supportive in this number of

1:39:04ways for Davidson County. So, uh uh

1:39:08Partners has skilled trainers that will

1:39:10walk us through that process. Um and uh

1:39:14we think that will add to um our ability

1:39:17to give you guys prioritized options for

1:39:20funding.

1:39:24those [clears throat] survey results.

1:39:26Just real quick, as of 812, we had 132

1:39:30surveys, which may sound like a lot or

1:39:33may not sound like a lot, but from a

1:39:35survey standpoint, um we were excited

1:39:38about uh 132 uh folks taking the time to

1:39:41fill out uh the survey.

1:39:44[clears throat] Just some quick

1:39:46demographics. Um about uh 40% of folks

1:39:49indicated they lived in Davidson County.

1:39:52Uh another 24% or so indicated they

1:39:55worked in Davidson County. Um uh the the

1:39:59majority of folks lived in Lexington.

1:40:03Um and uh when I say 132 after our last

1:40:09opioid uh settlement funds committee, we

1:40:13had some good communication and and

1:40:15conversation. You know, one of the

1:40:16things that we have identified through

1:40:18this first uh round of data is that

1:40:21there was only a small portion of people

1:40:23that identified as having a personal

1:40:26interaction with opioids that took the

1:40:28survey. So, we um uh talked within the

1:40:32community uh the the committee uh and

1:40:36had some good ideas uh of where we could

1:40:38put the the survey so that people would

1:40:41find it. And I'm happy to report as of

1:40:43yesterday we were up to 227

1:40:46uh uh uh surveys completed. So I was

1:40:50happy at 132. 227 is wonderful. So we're

1:40:53in the process of of um looking at that

1:40:56data now.

1:40:59[clears throat] The the top three

1:41:00connections to opioid use that that we

1:41:03saw in the survey.

1:41:05Uh 88% of the uh 88 of the 132 folks

1:41:09said, "I see it in my neighborhood or

1:41:11community." Another 59 indicated they

1:41:15worked with someone who had been

1:41:16affected by opioid use. And another 51

1:41:20indicated a family member or friend had

1:41:22struggled with that. This is the stats

1:41:24that I was talking about a moment ago.

1:41:26Only nine individuals indicated that

1:41:28they personally had struggled. And that

1:41:30was the number that we wanted to to

1:41:32target to try to uh get more uh

1:41:35feedback.

1:41:37Couple of other items. [clears throat]

1:41:39We asked a question. If if you or

1:41:41someone you cared about needed help for

1:41:44opioid use today, would you know where

1:41:46to go or uh you know or near Davidson

1:41:49County? The good news [clears throat] is

1:41:5245% of the people said yes. The bad news

1:41:56is 55% of that people said they're not

1:41:59sure or no. So that's you know when we

1:42:03look at uh data like that that tells us

1:42:05there's there's some opportunity there.

1:42:09Similarly [clears throat]

1:42:11we asked a question about access. Access

1:42:14is always a big deal when we talk about

1:42:16services especially when we talk about

1:42:18addiction. I may be willing to stop

1:42:20drinking today or stop using opioids

1:42:22today. I may not next week. If the

1:42:25services aren't available when I'm

1:42:27willing and ready to receive them, then

1:42:30[clears throat] odds are uh it may not

1:42:32be uh successful. If you look at this,

1:42:34it's a little bit weird on a bar graph,

1:42:36but those last two items are very

1:42:39confident or extremely confident. So,

1:42:42only about 25% of the folks that took

1:42:45took the survey felt confident or very

1:42:48confident that they knew where they

1:42:50could get services within three days. Uh

1:42:53so again that that to us is an

1:42:55opportunity.

1:42:57Uh just a couple of other quick things

1:42:59that popped out. Uh there were uh a

1:43:02clear split of folks that uh had

1:43:05nlloxxone or access to it or knew where

1:43:07to get it. The majority of folks did not

1:43:11have nor know where to get uh nlloxxone.

1:43:15The lock zone is just one uh uh example

1:43:19here, but it is one that has

1:43:21demonstrated the ability to to save

1:43:23lives.

1:43:24We always want to get an idea of what

1:43:26services people feel are needed, and I

1:43:29would I would say these are our top

1:43:32five.

1:43:34None of them are a surprise.

1:43:36Recovery, housing, people need a safe

1:43:39place to live in order to address their

1:43:41uh addiction.

1:43:43Uh the second one there, helping people

1:43:46get into treatment quickly. That is the

1:43:48access piece that that we talked about.

1:43:50So we figured that would be an issue. Uh

1:43:53uh and then treatment beds uh also uh

1:43:56connects to uh uh uh access as well. So

1:44:02again, we'll continue to to to work on

1:44:04on the data uh from that, but it it's

1:44:08beginning to give us some ideas of where

1:44:10those gaps may be for Davidson County.

1:44:14In addition to the survey and the focus

1:44:16on the the gaps analysis for the county,

1:44:21we uh have taken a couple of steps to

1:44:24develop uh two documents to support the

1:44:28infrastructure we think is necessary for

1:44:31Davidson County. uh uh moving forward as

1:44:35you guys decide as as the commissioners

1:44:37decide on which programs to fund and not

1:44:40fund, we feel strongly that that needs

1:44:43to be a defensible process. Um and so

1:44:47what we mean by that is uh you know a

1:44:50transparent process with rules and roles

1:44:55and things defined so that uh you know

1:44:58it's it's one thing if you have more

1:45:00than enough money for all the funding

1:45:02requests. It's very different when you

1:45:04have to start making decisions of this

1:45:07just the conversation you guys just had.

1:45:09I know it wasn't about opioids, but it's

1:45:11a perfect example when you're having to

1:45:13weigh this uh uh opportunity versus

1:45:16another opportunity. So, we've created a

1:45:19a governance uh document. Uh it does not

1:45:22remove any of the power of this board.

1:45:26It just helps the committee uh organize

1:45:29itself in a way that um you use the um

1:45:34the gaps and [clears throat] the

1:45:36priorities that are established annually

1:45:38to let out an RFP uh process and

1:45:42application for folks to apply. And then

1:45:45those applications will be reviewed

1:45:47based on a a scoring rubric. Uh

1:45:50recommendations will be made to you

1:45:52guys. you guys would then be able to

1:45:53make the decision to fund or not fund

1:45:55etc. Uh we have also created an

1:45:58application. I believe you guys have

1:46:00copies of those. They're in draft form.

1:46:04We'll welcome feedback. I'm also willing

1:46:06to come back and talk through them if we

1:46:08need to. Uh the governance documents

1:46:11about 23 pages. So I know we don't have

1:46:15uh time to to go through that today. I

1:46:17just wanted to make sure that you were

1:46:18aware of that.

1:46:20It has been looked at by the county

1:46:23attorney's office. It has been through a

1:46:26couple of rounds of feedback with the

1:46:28opioid committee. Um, and our only ask

1:46:33here is that, you know, you guys would

1:46:35have an opportunity to review that and

1:46:37then follow whatever the next logical

1:46:39steps are to review, approve, ask

1:46:42questions, etc. for for those uh

1:46:44processes to move forward. Uh, and

1:46:47again,

1:46:49I'm I'm trying to use this language as

1:46:51often as I can. We're looking to create

1:46:54to the extent possible defensible

1:46:57decisions such that you're not, you

1:46:59know, a year later with someone up here

1:47:01saying, "Why didn't you fund my

1:47:03program?" Right? Um,

1:47:07and [clears throat] then there's one

1:47:08additional recommendation. uh today

1:47:12uh in our last opioid committee, you

1:47:15know, I think the realization

1:47:18uh hit the committee and and um uh

1:47:21Commissioner Kester, you were there, so

1:47:23feel free to uh to to weigh in.

1:47:27But if we move forward with this

1:47:30infrastructure, infrastructure creates

1:47:32accountability.

1:47:33Um and and it also creates requirements

1:47:37and processes that need to be followed.

1:47:40Um and so I think the committee began to

1:47:43realize if we implement all of these

1:47:45processes that leads to a defensible uh

1:47:49uh uh set of decisions for Davidson

1:47:52County. uh that puts a a tremendous

1:47:55amount of onus on the committee. Uh and

1:47:58so one of the things that uh came out of

1:48:01that from the committee was a

1:48:02recommendation for u an opioid

1:48:05coordinator uh for Davidson County.

1:48:09Um CCR would also recommend a

1:48:12coordinator. It was included in our

1:48:14original scope to support the county if

1:48:17you chose to go down that route. Um uh

1:48:20we have developed a draft uh job

1:48:22description uh that you guys I believe

1:48:25also have uh and so again it's in draft

1:48:28format but we drafted it in such a way

1:48:32that we uh feel confident uh that it can

1:48:36be paid for through the opioid

1:48:38settlement funds. Uh and I'll I'll get

1:48:40to that in just a second. Um

1:48:44we in our scope already uh we are ready

1:48:47to support you guys in terms of the job

1:48:50description, interviewing, ranking

1:48:53candidates, whatever we can do to to to

1:48:55make this uh easier for the county.

1:48:57We're we're willing to do the reasoning

1:49:00behind this, the why,

1:49:03this is probably not in my best

1:49:05interest. Um, and CCR is more than

1:49:08willing to support the county as long as

1:49:10you need. But in my personal opinion,

1:49:14uh, I think, you know, if this was my

1:49:16county, I live in Stanley County.

1:49:18Stanley County has an opioid coordinator

1:49:20because we believe strongly that someone

1:49:22has to own this process. Uh, and I

1:49:24believe that it needs to be someone that

1:49:26either works in this county or lives in

1:49:28this county. Uh, so you know, when we're

1:49:31when we're gone, whenever that is, I

1:49:32hope not not too soon, but where

1:49:35whenever we're not a part of this

1:49:37process, you need someone that's going

1:49:39to own it. Um, uh, I just mentioned

1:49:43before that, uh, if we don't do an

1:49:45opioid coordinator, all of the things

1:49:48that we suggest from an infrastructure

1:49:51that needs to happen, it falls back on

1:49:54on the committee, you know, uh, and I

1:49:57think the committee had some very strong

1:49:59uh, feelings about the fact that that

1:50:02they're all very busy and they're all

1:50:03given their time, but they may not have

1:50:06the ability to focus on this the way

1:50:07somebody would in in in this position.

1:50:10And then the last piece here, um

1:50:14the intervention is able to be funded by

1:50:16that first option a intervention

1:50:20collaborative strategic planning. Um it

1:50:23allows for the paying of salary and

1:50:25benefits of an opioid coordinator. And

1:50:27when we wrote that uh the the job

1:50:31description,

1:50:33we wrote it using the fact the uh

1:50:37frequently asked questions for the MOA

1:50:40that lays out you can use this funding

1:50:43for this purpose as long as it does A,

1:50:46B, C, and D. We incorporated A, B, C,

1:50:49and D into that job description to make

1:50:52that process easier for Davidson County.

1:50:55Uh, and then the last thing I would say

1:50:57about this, I I believe

1:50:59uh, and Mr. Manis, tell me if I messed

1:51:02this up, but I believe with interest and

1:51:04everything, there's about $12 million of

1:51:07the opioid settlement funds in Davidson

1:51:09[clears throat] County right now. The

1:51:11interest of that alone is about $1.1

1:51:14million.

1:51:15Would likely pay for this position for

1:51:1710 years. that's not touching the

1:51:19principle of the um uh of the settlement

1:51:23funds nor any other uh uh dollars from

1:51:27the county. So, just wanted to make sure

1:51:30that that you guys were aware of that

1:51:32and thinking about it from that

1:51:33standpoint.

1:51:34>> And there are several committee members

1:51:35that are sitting in the audience that

1:51:37came here today to support. Excuse me,

1:51:40but you know, I really thought that's

1:51:42what we hired you for,

1:51:45to tell us what we how we need to be

1:51:47spending their money on what programs or

1:51:49what benefits. I've learned nothing from

1:51:51you today that I didn't know before we

1:51:54hired you.

1:51:54>> Yeah. So,

1:51:55>> oh contracted with you.

1:51:58If we need that, then that's what we

1:51:59need. But that's what I thought you

1:52:01were.

1:52:02>> Yeah. I can appreciate that. It's it's a

1:52:04little different. the uh we were hired

1:52:08to help the committee that has you know

1:52:12been uh uh functioning for several years

1:52:16begin to move you know to to get some

1:52:18money spent on on programs. So we will

1:52:21come in and do the gaps analysis. We

1:52:23will come in and uh create that

1:52:25infrastructure that allows them to

1:52:27continue that process past today. So

1:52:31just spend some more money pretty much

1:52:33because I was expecting a lot more from

1:52:37your organization than what I've

1:52:38received today.

1:52:40I I'm I apologize, but I'm I'm

1:52:42straightforward. You know, I respect you

1:52:44enough to say it to your face what some

1:52:46people may say behind your back. This is

1:52:49I don't see anything where you presented

1:52:52anything.

1:52:53I'll be honest with you. And I've heard

1:52:55that kind of stuff from these programs

1:52:57for years and I'm fed up with it. I want

1:53:01somebody who's going to produce

1:53:04and I don't see it. I'm sorry. I just

1:53:06don't see it. The coordinator is not a

1:53:08bad idea, but that's what we get we had

1:53:11decided on when we contracted with you.

1:53:14I thought that's what you were going to

1:53:16do. And now I find out you're

1:53:18recommending us hiring somebody else

1:53:21>> and and I'm sorry, but I just don't see

1:53:23it. I totally appreciate the desire to

1:53:25move forward. I think that's what the

1:53:28committee members that we've we hear

1:53:30from want to move forward quickly and

1:53:32and show that action.

1:53:34>> How are we doing it

1:53:36>> in order to do it in a way that that

1:53:38doesn't result in further issues in the

1:53:41county. We just saw somebody come up

1:53:43here and withdraw their uh funding

1:53:46requests because they were angry with

1:53:48the process. So, in order for us to be

1:53:50able to move and move quickly in the

1:53:52future, we have to put some things in

1:53:54place before that can happen.

1:53:56>> With all due respect to what he's

1:53:57saying, Commissioner Shell, I've been at

1:53:59the last two meetings.

1:54:01They facilitated a lot in the short time

1:54:04they've been here. No longer and I've

1:54:05been on that committee. It's been

1:54:07spinning its wheels, man. And I sense

1:54:08the frustration. And that's what this

1:54:10gentleman is trying to do is provide a

1:54:12framework to do this. And all he's

1:54:13saying is the money that's sitting there

1:54:16that's not been able to be used because

1:54:18there's not a framework through which

1:54:20people to apply to use the money. He's

1:54:22trying to provide that. And with

1:54:24everybody that's on the committee, we

1:54:25came to a consensus of the fact that

1:54:27we've all other got full-time jobs. And

1:54:29this type of situation is going to

1:54:31require somebody to shepherd that thing

1:54:33full-time. And that's all he's saying is

1:54:35if they had a a director for that

1:54:37specific position, the interest from

1:54:39this fund would pay for it without not

1:54:41putting another county dime in it.

1:54:44>> That's what he said.

1:54:44>> What I said was I don't disagree with

1:54:47you at all. I sat on it long before you

1:54:49had. No, you did.

1:54:51>> But here's the thing. We have drugg our

1:54:53feet through this whole thing and we're

1:54:56continuing to do that. The coordinator I

1:55:00did that you're that you're supported

1:55:02there. I support and I thought that's

1:55:04what we were getting with him, but it

1:55:06doesn't look like that's what we're

1:55:07getting with him.

1:55:08>> Right.

1:55:09>> And I'm tired of of of the same thing

1:55:12what you said, dragging feet.

1:55:14>> Yeah.

1:55:14>> We need to get to the point where we'd

1:55:16actually do something. And we need that

1:55:20coordinator. And that's the reason I was

1:55:21in support of hiring what I thought was

1:55:24a coordinator,

1:55:25>> right?

1:55:26>> I already knew we need a coordinator.

1:55:28need didn't need to pay all them

1:55:30thousands of dollars for somebody to

1:55:32tell me that. I think we had discussed

1:55:34that in the committee about a

1:55:36coordinator. I'm sorry, but I'm just

1:55:39frustrated because it seemed like we're

1:55:41back at square one,

1:55:42>> right?

1:55:43>> I I was there at the beginning and I

1:55:45know what was being discussed at the

1:55:47beginning and you he's right that we

1:55:50work. We can't spend full time. We do

1:55:53need a coordinator, but that's what I

1:55:55thought we were hiring when we

1:55:57contracted him.

1:56:00And now he's I find out we contracted

1:56:03with somebody to tell us what we already

1:56:05knew. We need a coordinator.

1:56:07>> Maybe [clears throat] he can help. I I

1:56:08think one thing he done too is tell us

1:56:10what kind of coordinator we need and and

1:56:12to specialize that coordinator, you

1:56:14coming.

1:56:15>> Well, and as I I apologize,

1:56:17Commissioner, as I understand it, this

1:56:20was brought to the board in 2025 and

1:56:24denied, declined. I'm not sure the the

1:56:26right language, but you guys did not

1:56:28choose to go with the coordinator.

1:56:29>> Well, we wanted to make sure we hired

1:56:30the right coordinator.

1:56:31>> Understood. And so what we do is, you

1:56:34know, we've we've gone in and and sort

1:56:37of laid out. I mean, I hadn't seen it,

1:56:39but I would think you would lay it out

1:56:41exactly what type of coordinator we

1:56:43need, what their duties are.

1:56:45>> Absolutely.

1:56:45>> What what you expect out of them, and

1:56:47then if they're not performing,

1:56:48>> right,

1:56:48>> then that's up to the committee to make

1:56:50sure. But we we want to see

1:56:52>> we want to see some uh progress made,

1:56:55you know, and we want a coordinator

1:56:57that's going to show us some progress,

1:56:59not come in, hang out around the coffee

1:57:01machine all day, you know. So,

1:57:03>> there's what we were looking for to make

1:57:05sure we hired the right person. uh in my

1:57:08opinion. Okay. So,

1:57:10>> right and we you know we've had numerous

1:57:12discussions about this and that the

1:57:14length of time I I thought from being an

1:57:17outsider from the committees you the it

1:57:20would so many people were involved of

1:57:22being on the committee and they they

1:57:25weren't I don't think they were working

1:57:27together. Well, I don't it was like you

1:57:30know my idea is great. No, this idea is

1:57:33great, but you know, but the thing about

1:57:35it is and what I what I want to say is

1:57:38what we want to happen is Debbie and I,

1:57:42I'm going to use this an example, are on

1:57:44JCPC board, okay? And it's it's a a

1:57:48program for youth to try to keep them

1:57:50out of jail. You know, that sort of

1:57:53thing. And we have they have to fill out

1:57:56monthly reports and they have to they

1:57:58have to serve so many people at some

1:58:01time and and we get the reports and like

1:58:04we talked about one the other day and

1:58:07they've not served five children, you

1:58:10know, and and we've spent massive

1:58:12amounts of money and I go down and look

1:58:14at their financial reports and three4s

1:58:19three4s of the money that goes to these

1:58:22programs s are staff staff

1:58:26um insurance you know you you look

1:58:28across the bar and you think God you

1:58:31know we're providing insurance a

1:58:33retirement you know this and that and

1:58:35this and that and there's only a fourth

1:58:38of it that gets used to help the kids

1:58:42>> and and that's the reason we're so

1:58:43frustrated because [clears throat] we do

1:58:45not want to have a program that's like

1:58:47that continues to be like that well the

1:58:51come fact, we they have to have

1:58:53salaries. Well, they have to do this

1:58:55that, you know, and it's and we don't

1:58:58feel like we're seeing any progress at

1:59:02all and that we can spend that $12

1:59:04million [clears throat]

1:59:05really quick with all the salaries, with

1:59:08all the insurance, with all that other

1:59:10stuff. And so, you know, that's why we

1:59:14have been frustrated. Uh, am I right,

1:59:17Trip? Am I right? That's the way I

1:59:19>> taking nothing away from the committee.

1:59:21They don't know how to write a job

1:59:22description for this for this position.

1:59:24I wouldn't think

1:59:25>> I mean again I don't know how many

1:59:26people you got on the committee but how

1:59:28many is on the committee Debbie?

1:59:29>> I think 20

1:59:30>> 15

1:59:31>> 15 people are showing up like they're on

1:59:34the committee that's not actually even

1:59:36on the committee

1:59:38>> and that needs to be addressed

1:59:40>> and that's one of the things that we

1:59:41address is who makes up the committee

1:59:43committee uh roles voting processes.

1:59:47None of that is in place right now.

1:59:49>> Oh yeah. See that's that's exactly

1:59:50>> that's what his role is creating that to

1:59:53create that structure

1:59:54>> really sets a lot of information out

1:59:56>> and it puts rails in place

1:59:59>> for the group or the coordinator or the

2:00:02to bring recommendations back to you all

2:00:06>> that like Ben said that are defensible

2:00:08>> that if we think that there's a program

2:00:09that y'all really do need to fund to to

2:00:12bring it and but there are is going to

2:00:13be a rubric associated with it that

2:00:16allows the committee to vet the

2:00:19information.

2:00:20>> And to me, you would use this consultant

2:00:22to look over your um coordinator.

2:00:26>> Yeah.

2:00:26>> You know, cuz y'all don't have time to

2:00:27look over the coordinator to make sure

2:00:29the process is working and

2:00:31>> you know, do they're doing what they

2:00:33supposed to do. So, as me as a backup, I

2:00:35would use this guy's organization

2:00:38to just keep track and make sure we're

2:00:40getting the best bang for

2:00:41[clears throat]

2:00:42now. So, now we need to put on another

2:00:44person. No long saying use him. Well,

2:00:48look, if you're paying for one that

2:00:49you're not getting anything out of,

2:00:50you're better off to pay somebody else a

2:00:52little something to oversee to make sure

2:00:54you are getting something. So, you know,

2:00:56I'm not for spending wasting money

2:00:58either. But again, we have this money

2:01:00coming from uh the opioid settlement.

2:01:03That's right.

2:01:04>> And it just needs to be spent costing

2:01:05the county

2:01:06>> as a useful tool. You know, again, I I

2:01:09don't want to hire anybody that's not

2:01:10doing their job. And you're

2:01:13>> talking about one person that the

2:01:14interest of that's going to more than

2:01:16pay for. It's not taking anything out of

2:01:17the principal.

2:01:18>> But but but I'm okay with giving this

2:01:20gentleman a little bit as long as he's

2:01:21fair with us. And I hope he would be to

2:01:23oversee what that coordinator does. Cuz

2:01:25again, y'all meet what? Once a month.

2:01:27>> Once a month,

2:01:28>> right? And you know, you can't keep a a

2:01:32good oversight to make sure. I mean, it

2:01:35might be obvious, but if it's not, you

2:01:36need somebody that can actually look at

2:01:38the numbers and making sure you're

2:01:39getting some results. That's just my

2:01:41opinion, but go ahead. I'm sorry.

2:01:43>> No, no. I mean, it was similar to what

2:01:44you said just so I'm understanding the

2:01:46process and because I'm not on the

2:01:48opioid committee, but I would think that

2:01:50a consultant, which you are, has a very

2:01:53different sphere of what they do than

2:01:56what a coordinator does. My

2:01:58understanding was you all were brought

2:01:59in to sort of strengthen the house, so

2:02:02to speak, right? so that when we do get

2:02:05the time and you have the gap analysis,

2:02:07then the coordinator can come in and

2:02:09actually steer the ship where it needs

2:02:11to to go. I'll do my little naval

2:02:13analogy there. Is that generally

2:02:17>> correct? It is. But without the

2:02:19infrastructure, you have what what you

2:02:21just described uh ma'am uh 15 different

2:02:24folks that think their idea is the right

2:02:26one. We need the structure of here are

2:02:30five priorities. And every year, you

2:02:32know, if if this [laughter]

2:02:34happens the way we uh think that it

2:02:37should, um you know, we we would get to

2:02:39a point to where every year, this

2:02:41portion of the year, we're looking at at

2:02:44data from from the county and we're

2:02:46deciding on here are our five buckets uh

2:02:48that we think, you know, are priorities

2:02:51for funding and we're going to let out

2:02:53an RFP for folks, anyone that's

2:02:55interested. We don't want random uh

2:02:58folks because I think it's a good idea

2:03:00to ask for money. We want them to give

2:03:02us proposals for the five things that

2:03:05we've already determined as priorities

2:03:07for Davidson County. Then we have a

2:03:10process to score those to look at them,

2:03:12not because I'm friends with the person

2:03:14that gave the the the proposal, but

2:03:18because it's the proposal that meets the

2:03:19need for Davidson County. And again, I

2:03:22go back to the defensible concept of if

2:03:25somebody gets angry and says, "How come

2:03:26I wasn't chosen?" We would have

2:03:29processes in place to show here are the

2:03:31scores, here's who was involved, here's

2:03:33who stepped out of that scoring process

2:03:36because they were connected to an a

2:03:38proposal in some way so that we have

2:03:40conflict of interest and things like

2:03:41that covered. Those are the things that

2:03:43have to happen to be able to move

2:03:45quickly.

2:03:45>> Who who looks at those scoring? Who

2:03:47looks at those applications? it will be

2:03:50the opioid coordinator and a subset of

2:03:52the committee. Uh and then there is a uh

2:03:57disqualification process. So uh I'll use

2:04:00as an example uh there's a service

2:04:02provider on the committee. If his

2:04:05organization submitted a proposal, he

2:04:08would accuse himself of of scoring that

2:04:11that process. Qu question on the gap

2:04:15analysis you had mentioned scoot up here

2:04:19on the gap analysis you had mentioned

2:04:21you you had mentioned that also the the

2:04:23county were we're following option B or

2:04:25plan or sorry plan A.

2:04:27>> Yes.

2:04:28>> Is it could this happen where in your

2:04:31findings from the gap analysis it shows

2:04:35information that would lend itself more

2:04:37to option B or is

2:04:40>> it's possible.

2:04:41>> Okay. What if if that were the case,

2:04:43just out of curiosity, like what would

2:04:45that process would it go back to the

2:04:47committee to kind of revisit and

2:04:50>> uh we I I would suggest that we would

2:04:53bring it back to you guys. That's a

2:04:54that's a big undertaking. Um that was

2:04:56not part of our original scope to take

2:04:58you through a option B process. I've

2:05:00done that with another county. It was a

2:05:02six, seven month process because you've

2:05:05got to bring people together and crunch

2:05:08data and there's there's a lot of steps

2:05:10to it. We didn't want to shut that door,

2:05:14but that that can be open

2:05:17if appropriate and if chosen by you

2:05:20guys,

2:05:21>> that can be opened at any time. I just

2:05:22wanted to make the point that that it's

2:05:24not a simple, oh, we like this idea,

2:05:27let's fund it if it's option B. Now,

2:05:30there are plenty of things that, you

2:05:32know, we would then take a look at and

2:05:34we would have to make an argument with

2:05:35the state of North Carolina. This falls

2:05:37in option A, you know, so there's still

2:05:40a tremendous amount of things that can

2:05:42be done. And and the frustration, uh,

2:05:44Commissioner Shell, that you you you

2:05:46shared as well is that those things

2:05:49could have been done the last three

2:05:50years.

2:05:52They haven't been. People are still

2:05:54dying. So we're we're trying to put the

2:05:56infrastructure in place so that you can

2:05:58move quickly, you know, and I mix

2:06:02signals from Raleigh, you know, from

2:06:04attorney general's office of what we

2:06:06could do, what we couldn't do. It's very

2:06:08frustrating.

2:06:10[clears throat] It's just like, you

2:06:11know, we sent them we sent them

2:06:13information or a question, could we

2:06:17support the could the opioid fund

2:06:20support the sheriff's?

2:06:22uh

2:06:24uh

2:06:26task force. The task force it came back,

2:06:30no you cannot. The next week the

2:06:32attorney general's office started a

2:06:34fentanyl task force, you know. So that's

2:06:38kind of frustration you run into with

2:06:41somebody telling you telling you that

2:06:43you can or can't do this and then them

2:06:46turning right around and doing it. It's

2:06:48just ridiculous. And so that's where my

2:06:50frustration is is it comes from because

2:06:53I want us all I want us to to accomplish

2:06:55something,

2:06:57>> you know. I really do. I want us to

2:06:58come. But I'm not throwing money at

2:07:00every little 501c3 that wants a dollar

2:07:03here and a dollar there with no

2:07:05accountability because they're not

2:07:07subject to the Freedom of Information

2:07:09Act. We don't even know how they spend

2:07:11the money. You know how like Karen said,

2:07:15you know, how do they spend the money?

2:07:18we got. And so that's where my

2:07:20frustration. It's not an attack on you.

2:07:22It's is I I guess I'm a little bit angry

2:07:24at myself because I thought we that's

2:07:26what we were going forward with.

2:07:28>> Yeah, I understand that. And you know,

2:07:30it's funny. We we we talk about the

2:07:31governance document because that is the

2:07:33one that sets that infrastructure, but

2:07:36the application that that um that you

2:07:38guys have as well also lays out. So for

2:07:41instance, right now if somebody brings a

2:07:43proposal, it's just their proposal. We

2:07:46will give them an application that that

2:07:48shows their budget and [clears throat]

2:07:50how how the money is going to be used

2:07:51and sustainability because, you know,

2:07:54we're talking about millions of dollars

2:07:55and it feels like a lot of money and it

2:07:57is a lot of money, but it's not a lot of

2:07:59money if you talk about an 18-year ramp

2:08:02uh with diminishing dollars every year.

2:08:05>> Uh so, so there has to be an eye to

2:08:07sustainability. Right now, you don't

2:08:09have any of that.

2:08:10>> I got a quick question. Something caught

2:08:12my ear while ago when you said a

2:08:13subcommittee. Now, did I hear you right

2:08:15saying if a person on the subcommittee

2:08:19uh turned in an application, they would

2:08:21have to recuse theirel from voting? Is

2:08:23that what you said? Okay. My opinion,

2:08:25nobody on the subcommittee

2:08:28needs to be anybody that's um turning in

2:08:31an application,

2:08:33you know? I mean, to me, that's not

2:08:35great. That's that's no different than

2:08:37us up here. We

2:08:38>> we can't bid on any work or do anything

2:08:40or contract with the county. same as

2:08:43this subcommittee. If they if they if

2:08:45they getting a piece of the pie

2:08:46anywhere, they shouldn't be on this

2:08:48subcommittee.

2:08:48>> I think [clears throat] right now we

2:08:49only have one and that would

2:08:51>> No, but I'm just saying to me that needs

2:08:53to be a rule.

2:08:54>> Yeah, I agree.

2:08:55>> And I think he knows enough that I don't

2:08:56even think he would volunteer to serve

2:08:58on his own.

2:08:58>> He probably would not.

2:08:59>> Well, but I'm just saying I'd like to

2:09:00get that clear right off the the top.

2:09:02[clears throat] I just don't think

2:09:03that's fair at all. You got two or three

2:09:05people that's turning in application

2:09:07sitting on the subcommittee and

2:09:09>> I agree.

2:09:10>> If we voting on this one, right? you

2:09:12know, same as what we hear,

2:09:14>> right?

2:09:15>> Okay.

2:09:16>> That's exactly the feedback that we we

2:09:18want you guys to look at this with.

2:09:20>> Yeah.

2:09:20>> Like I said, that little thing caught my

2:09:21ear and I'm like, "Wait a minute. This

2:09:22don't smell right right off the get-go,

2:09:24you know." So, but no, I mean, I think a

2:09:27good coordinator, if you really got a

2:09:28good coordinator, and I wish y'all luck

2:09:31uh finding a good coordinator because

2:09:32that's going to be the success

2:09:34>> of our our program or not, you know. So,

2:09:38>> the one thing that Tim brought forward

2:09:39at the committee meeting last month or

2:09:41our last committee meeting was the fact

2:09:43that the interest sitting there would

2:09:45pretty much pay for it for 10 years

2:09:47before anything and the interest would

2:09:49continue to acrue.

2:09:51>> So,

2:09:51>> I mean, the cost of never been my

2:09:54problem. My problem is I want to make

2:09:56sure we got a a coordinator that

2:09:58actually can make something happen. you

2:10:01know, like she said, don't spend 80% of

2:10:03the money on overhead and uh payroll to

2:10:07uh help nobody, you know, or or small

2:10:10amount of people. So, it's just my two

2:10:12cents. So, sounds good to me. I mean,

2:10:15y'all overlook this job description of

2:10:17this uh person

2:10:19>> and get them hired. You know, again,

2:10:21this money is just sitting there and

2:10:23>> we need to make a motion as a board to

2:10:25go ahead and proceed with that. I mean,

2:10:28>> there's a consensus of

2:10:29>> I think that to add a position, I think

2:10:31you probably would need to actually vote

2:10:34>> and they would work for the county,

2:10:36right? They're going to be county

2:10:37employees.

2:10:37>> County employees. Okay.

2:10:39>> Okay. Do I have a motion?

2:10:40>> I make a motion that we proceed with a

2:10:44finding a person to be the opioid

2:10:46settlement coordinator for the county.

2:10:49>> Do we need that or just uh put it on the

2:10:51consent agenda for

2:10:52>> We can we can do that

2:10:53>> because we don't normally make votes. We

2:10:55can do the

2:10:56>> on the consent. That way I can tighten

2:10:58up the budget. There'll be a

2:10:59[clears throat] budget amendment and you

2:11:01know official approval of the FTE.

2:11:03>> But I would like for that to be somebody

2:11:06approve the description, this job

2:11:08description. And I guess Are y'all going

2:11:10to look over that at the next uh Have

2:11:12you already got it made out the job

2:11:13description?

2:11:15>> Is that in our

2:11:16>> Yes, sir.

2:11:16>> paperwork. Okay.

2:11:18>> Commissioner Yates, we've talked about

2:11:20what department to put this person in.

2:11:22And we we sort of think health

2:11:24department would fit as good as

2:11:26anything. Okay.

2:11:27>> So, um we would need some guidance on

2:11:29that I think as well.

2:11:33>> Okay.

2:11:33>> And Lillian had I think you were willing

2:11:36to accept that person, correct?

2:11:38>> Yes. I mean um whatever y'all want us to

2:11:41do it. I know that they may

2:11:44>> come on

2:11:46from the back.

2:11:52Good morning, y'all. Um, thank you. Uh,

2:11:54yes. Uh, we are more than willing to

2:11:57take it at the health department, but I

2:11:58think we all, well, not all, but a lot

2:12:00of us remember that the health

2:12:02department did have an opioid position

2:12:04several years ago, and this would be

2:12:06very different from that. Um, that

2:12:08position didn't have any sort of clear

2:12:11directive on um a a job description that

2:12:15would be tied to any dollars. So, the

2:12:18funds that we had last time were county

2:12:20funds that just went to the position.

2:12:23The way that I'm understanding what the

2:12:25opioid settlement funds committee wants

2:12:27and what you want is you want a

2:12:29dedicated staff member who says we have

2:12:32$12 million. The opioid settlement

2:12:35committee has looked at the gaps in

2:12:37Davidson County. They would like to

2:12:39spend available funds in prevention and

2:12:42recovery and housing. whatever it is,

2:12:44that person would use the um rubric that

2:12:48our consultant has come up with on how

2:12:50to apply for funds. And then the opioid

2:12:54settlement coordinator person would come

2:12:56to the committee and say, "These do

2:12:58meet. The subcommittee needs to hear

2:13:00these projects and then based on that,

2:13:02this is how much y'all are willing to

2:13:03spend. This is what you can do." Having

2:13:06this dedicated person is what the opioid

2:13:08settlement committee has been missing

2:13:10because we just haven't had someone who

2:13:11can dig in and do the work. This is

2:13:13going to take a lot of hours to do.

2:13:15Y'all talk about data all the time. This

2:13:18committee can't hasn't been able to dive

2:13:21into data. A person could though. They

2:13:23could stay on top of people monthly

2:13:25reports, quarterly reports. So you don't

2:13:27find yourself at the end of the year

2:13:28where you've only served five people. We

2:13:30would hold them accountable as they go.

2:13:32And I would hope with our legal team,

2:13:35Adam, sorry to put you on the hook there

2:13:36and Sherry who works on it with the

2:13:39consultant, we would have ways to say,

2:13:41well, we may have given you x amount of

2:13:43dollars, but in 30 days, if you're not

2:13:44doing what you're supposed to be doing,

2:13:46the money stops. And again, you have to

2:13:49have a person that's looking at that

2:13:51real- time data pretty quickly, and

2:13:52that's what we're missing. So, I'm

2:13:54hopeful for this. If y'all want it in

2:13:56the health department, great. We're

2:13:58happy to do it. But my plan would be

2:14:00that they would work closely with the

2:14:01county manager's office and the opioid

2:14:03settlement committee and y'all would be

2:14:05seeing them regularly at commissioner

2:14:07meetings to get this data to y'all. So

2:14:09it would not be a a hidden position in

2:14:12the health department. It would be very

2:14:13forward- facing.

2:14:15>> Thank you.

2:14:15>> Agreed. Thank you.

2:14:17>> Also, I'd like to add this is more or

2:14:19less operations manual that structures

2:14:22the whole program and this is sort of

2:14:25like administering a grant in my

2:14:27opinion. I've been to two meetings, so I

2:14:29that's what I know about it. But I think

2:14:31he's asking you to approve this uh

2:14:33policy.

2:14:35>> Yeah. Well,

2:14:37I'm just naive of of the process that

2:14:40you guys use. So, I I would just

2:14:42encourage whatever that process is that

2:14:44>> which includes an application process,

2:14:47which is a stringent process more. We

2:14:50don't have any framework now to to

2:14:51operate from.

2:14:53>> I mean, if you guys are good, we could

2:14:55put all three on for Tuesday. Yeah,

2:14:57we'll put it on the consent agenda when

2:14:58that time comes. What What other

2:15:00departments have you seen this go in uh

2:15:02in other counties?

2:15:03>> Um I've I've seen it a couple of

2:15:05different ways. I've seen it directly in

2:15:07a county uh manager's office and I've

2:15:10seen it in the health department.

2:15:12>> So those those are the two that I've

2:15:14personally seen.

2:15:17>> Well, and here on on the paper it says a

2:15:20guidance manual for the application

2:15:21funding. They're gonna you're going to

2:15:23send you want that accepted and then

2:15:26you're going to send that to us to

2:15:28review. Is that correct?

2:15:31>> It's attached to the agenda today.

2:15:33>> Oh, it is. Okay.

2:15:35>> The the um governance manual, the

2:15:37application.

2:15:38>> Okay.

2:15:38>> And I think the the committee once you

2:15:40guys approve things, the committee will

2:15:41need to work on a little bit more on the

2:15:43application because there's a lot of

2:15:44blanks in it. But we didn't want to move

2:15:46forward with anything until we had the

2:15:48blessing of the board.

2:15:50Where would you put this position,

2:15:52Lillian? Where where in in the health

2:15:54department, where where are you going to

2:15:55put this employee?

2:15:57>> Um, it would directly report to me. So,

2:15:59we'd have to do a new structure. Um,

2:16:01last time it didn't directly report to

2:16:03me, and this time, I mean, we we need

2:16:05some changes and they need to be more

2:16:08forward- facing and more closely

2:16:09connected to our county manager's office

2:16:11and legal. I mean, the last position was

2:16:14very different from this one. This one

2:16:16is more about like these are big

2:16:17dollars. And I know again we talked

2:16:20about over the long term it's not but it

2:16:22is a lot of money and it is a lot of

2:16:25need in our county and I would want them

2:16:27to report directly to me.

2:16:28>> I mean that's the only way I would go

2:16:31for that is either they would have to

2:16:32directly report to you. Yes sir.

2:16:34>> Or they'd be in the county management

2:16:36office because again this is this is a

2:16:38lot of money and it's a lot of

2:16:40responsibility to make sure it's done

2:16:42right. you know.

2:16:42>> Yeah,

2:16:43>> for sure. And I would if it does come to

2:16:45the health department, I would want to

2:16:47closely closely closely work with this

2:16:49person because I have been on the opioid

2:16:50settlement committee for years. I do

2:16:52have the context of where we've been and

2:16:54where we want to go. Um, and I have to

2:16:57be honest too, it makes my gut tighten a

2:16:59little bit because we are going to need

2:17:00a strong person for this work. somebody

2:17:03who is incredibly um intelligent with

2:17:08funding and presentations because

2:17:10they're going to have to know how

2:17:11budgets work and they're going to have

2:17:12to know how to present and they're going

2:17:13to have to know how to work with these

2:17:14committees and the the 501c3s that come.

2:17:17I mean, that's the person that I

2:17:19envision for our county that would be

2:17:21answering the questions when the 501c3

2:17:23calls and says, "I see that we have a

2:17:25potential to bid. Can you answer

2:17:27questions about this?" That person's

2:17:28going to have to know all that, too. So,

2:17:30my stomach tightens a little bit on

2:17:32finding this right candidate, but um we

2:17:34really do need someone to do this and I

2:17:38think that we're up for it. I think we

2:17:39can do it. But we if y'all know anybody

2:17:42that's really great and looking for a

2:17:43job um that's very well-rounded, please

2:17:45send them um for wherever the position

2:17:48lands, but they're going to it's going

2:17:49to be a task. But I'm willing to be able

2:17:51to work with them, too. And if they

2:17:52directly report to me, we will work in

2:17:54lock step. Um, I just y'all weren't at

2:17:57the committee, but what I said when we

2:17:58talked about this, I would love to be

2:18:00able to work on this full-time, but I

2:18:02just can't because I have other duties.

2:18:03So, we need somebody who can do that.

2:18:06>> Thanks.

2:18:06>> What u will the consultant be in the

2:18:09hiring process?

2:18:11>> Yeah. Part of our scope originally for

2:18:13you guys was we we offered to support

2:18:16any way that we could. uh at that time

2:18:19you guys hadn't made the decision to to

2:18:21go with a a coordinator but you know

2:18:24again I personally I believe that it's

2:18:26it's you know [clears throat] counties

2:18:28need it. I've seen it work but yeah we

2:18:30would be helpful.

2:18:33>> Um okay. All right.

2:18:37I'm good with it going on the health

2:18:39department. Uh I am too.

2:18:40>> Like I say the the hiring committee I

2:18:42mean I don't know. I'd like to see a

2:18:43commissioner sit on that hiring

2:18:46committee.

2:18:48might not be a bad idea. The

2:18:49>> consultant

2:18:50is on the committee. So,

2:18:52>> huh?

2:18:52>> Trip is on the committee.

2:18:53>> How many

2:18:55you got two commissioners?

2:18:57>> I ain't got two more meetings. So,

2:18:59>> that's right. [laughter]

2:19:01>> Somebody else might

2:19:04trip and whoever the next whoever gets

2:19:06seated on the opioid, I would suggest

2:19:09that they would be part of the hiring

2:19:10comm.

2:19:11>> Definitely

2:19:12>> need to put that on the list. Okay. as

2:19:16part of the consent as part of

2:19:18>> I one one other I don't know how you

2:19:21would position this but I think any

2:19:25decision that that person would make

2:19:27should be approved by the board of

2:19:29commissioners for example suppose he

2:19:32wanted to put foot forth I'm just going

2:19:34to use this and it's controversial but

2:19:36the syringe program I can't think of a

2:19:39Republican that would be for a syringe

2:19:41program might as well provide them with

2:19:44clean drugs

2:19:45But if he don't have any oversight or

2:19:49it's not going to come back to the

2:19:50committee, I mean to the commissioners,

2:19:53then

2:19:55uh you know, he could just put forth

2:19:57what he wants to put forth.

2:19:58>> That could be one of the stipulations

2:19:59that it has to come back.

2:20:00>> I believe that's already in place.

2:20:03>> Yeah. Everything has to come to y'all to

2:20:05approve to fund.

2:20:06>> We just don't have the person to

2:20:08actually get something well prepared to

2:20:10you to even look at right now. And we

2:20:12don't have the system in place. as Ben

2:20:14has said multiple times on just this is

2:20:16what we're looking for. This is what

2:20:18we're going to ask for you to do. These

2:20:19are your deliverables and if the

2:20:22individuals are interested in applying,

2:20:24I mean, for years we've heard people

2:20:25show up. I want 5,000. I want 20,000. We

2:20:28just don't have the rubric. We get that

2:20:30in place and we have a person to

2:20:31oversight it. Then it comes to y'all and

2:20:34then y'all can choose to fund it or not.

2:20:35And

2:20:35>> that coordinator needs to explain to the

2:20:37board members that sit on that

2:20:40what may be in there. It may be hidden

2:20:42somewhere that that y'all need to know

2:20:44about before it comes to us and somebody

2:20:46don't catch it. And like Steve said, we

2:20:48got syringe containers going up

2:20:50everywhere and the public want to know

2:20:52why, you know.

2:20:53>> So, okay.

2:20:55>> You all are okay with us putting the

2:20:57governance manual, the application, the

2:20:59job description with all of Tim's

2:21:01information on the consent agenda for

2:21:03the 14th?

2:21:04>> Yes, I am.

2:21:08>> Thank you. Thank you both.

2:21:09>> Thank you all. Yep.

2:21:12Okay, we have item number D. We're um we

2:21:17remove that from the agenda.

2:21:19So, next will be uh Mr. Mash Marsh

2:21:23Marshburn is coming to see us. He wants

2:21:26to talk to us about um the field

2:21:29reduction.

2:21:33[clears throat]

2:21:35>> Hello. Good morning, afternoon. the uh

2:21:39my name is Brian Con for those who don't

2:21:41know I'm the project lead for the

2:21:42sportslex uh and so just wanted to uh I

2:21:47updated the facilities committee and

2:21:49just for ultimate transparency I think

2:21:52the facilities committee wanted me to

2:21:53speak to the full board kind of let you

2:21:55know what was happening so obviously

2:21:57about 18 months ago roughly we set the

2:22:00budget for the sports plex and we are

2:22:04we've moved a lot of earth and some

2:22:06foundations are beginning to come up.

2:22:08We're beginning to go vertical on some

2:22:10of the larger structures, starting to

2:22:12move in that direction um through lots

2:22:14of paperwork and movement. Um and so

2:22:18what's happened is I had a contingency

2:22:21within that budget. And of that

2:22:24contingency, I've had three surprises or

2:22:28or things to offset. And so as I

2:22:31presented back in

2:22:33March of last year, I believe one of my

2:22:36contingencies knowing I can't cross that

2:22:39financial number was to say that if if

2:22:43things got tighter, I would remove some

2:22:45fields in the massive scope to say,

2:22:49okay, I'm going to take out a section of

2:22:50fields or something to try to offset

2:22:52monies if something needed more

2:22:55contingency. Uh so the three things that

2:22:57have arrived or have manifested in this

2:23:01process uh item one is I know these by

2:23:05heart

2:23:07because you know every day um and the

2:23:10original park proposal of over when we

2:23:13originally proposed it uh in proposals

2:23:15and schematics back in February March of

2:23:18last year there were two entrances to

2:23:21the park. Uh at the board's request, we

2:23:24eliminated the North Riverwood Road

2:23:27entrance and and I that was at the

2:23:30board's discretion, but what that

2:23:32triggered on my side was a change in the

2:23:35traffic impact analysis and DOT saying,

2:23:38"Are you sure you just want one entrance

2:23:41to the park?" And so what that has the

2:23:44kind of the ripple effect is now I have

2:23:47it's kind of like they're wanting me to

2:23:48fix all of that Lynwood Southmont.

2:23:51their check. My checkbook's open. Your

2:23:53checkbook's open. Yeah.

2:23:54>> Is what it feels like a little bit with

2:23:56DOT. So that I'm rerouting reorienting

2:23:58the Lynwood Southmont Road into Highway

2:24:018. I'm putting a stoplight now at the

2:24:03intersection of Owen and Highway 8. And

2:24:07so and then of course that's triggering

2:24:09moving water lines and moving gas lines

2:24:11and changing fiber optics and just a

2:24:13whole thing there. So, because that

2:24:16second entrance was eliminated, I'm

2:24:18roughly at another because I had money

2:24:21in there for off-site. I knew turning

2:24:23lanes and things like that. Uh, but it's

2:24:25roughly another half million dollars. It

2:24:28additional monies out of my beyond my

2:24:31budget for all this off-site stuff that

2:24:34DO's kind of come back and said, we want

2:24:36you to do all of these elements. Uh

2:24:39we've worked hard to try to keep all the

2:24:41improvements within easement so we

2:24:42didn't have to do additional easement

2:24:44acquisitions or anything like that, but

2:24:47it's just I'm I'm a little bit at their

2:24:49mercy. Like for example, Davidson County

2:24:52Davidson Water says we don't want our

2:24:54water line now under the asphalt. You've

2:24:56got to move our water line. I can't say

2:24:58no, but there's $150,000

2:25:00to move a water line. So it just it's

2:25:03had this kind of ripple effect in the NC

2:25:05DOT side. Uh item two in the initial

2:25:09uh proposal

2:25:11capital budget included his budget

2:25:14included uh mowers, equipment, chairs,

2:25:18things like that. That was set in a

2:25:20different pot. We got word about four

2:25:24six months ago about six months ago that

2:25:26no, now that needs to come out of your

2:25:28budget. So that's half a million dollars

2:25:31that wasn't didn't have a line item that

2:25:33suddenly needed to be found. So there

2:25:36there's the second thing. And then my

2:25:38third thing is in our initial

2:25:40conversations with Energy United, we

2:25:44we proposed and worked with them, but

2:25:46they have come back now and said, "Oh,

2:25:48by the way, we now don't have enough

2:25:49electricity to get to your site. You're

2:25:52going to have to pay to upsize our lines

2:25:55to get to the site." We thought we had

2:25:58an out with just being transparent with

2:26:00Lexington, uh, city of Lexington Power,

2:26:04but they actually turned out to be more

2:26:05expensive than Energy United even to try

2:26:07to get power because they actually both

2:26:09physically touched the property. Uh, and

2:26:12so all that to be said

2:26:15about a million and a half dollars and

2:26:18that's if I take out four baseball

2:26:20fields of the eight and when I say take

2:26:22out baseball fields, I'm saying the

2:26:25baseball fields, the lights, the

2:26:28concession stand, and the parking lot

2:26:30associated with those four fields is

2:26:32kind of a unit. If I pull all that out,

2:26:35that's my offset to pay for these

2:26:37unexpected expenses. Uh obviously there

2:26:40is a consequence to this in terms of we

2:26:43were still grading the site no matter

2:26:44what. So if you were to go to the park,

2:26:47you're going to see about a 10 acre

2:26:48patch of flat grass where a baseball

2:26:52field could go, four baseball fields

2:26:54could go someday. But obviously the

2:26:57consequence from the park side, and

2:26:59Thomas knows this better than I do,

2:27:01would be it's harder to have a

2:27:03tournament scenario with a four field

2:27:06condition than the eight-field

2:27:08condition. that was presented because

2:27:09the whole point of the park is to be

2:27:11self-contained

2:27:12financially. That was the intent is and

2:27:15so um but those are so what I'm asking

2:27:19for today or making aware is I'm going

2:27:21to have to is and my problem is for me I

2:27:24have to make this decision now because I

2:27:27can't get the benefit of that decision

2:27:3060 days from now or 90 days from now

2:27:32because they I've already installed the

2:27:34water lines. They've already installed

2:27:35the sewer lines going down through

2:27:36there. So, I'm I've got to make

2:27:38[clears throat] the decision early

2:27:39enough because I'm still negotiating

2:27:41even today with NC DOT trying to get

2:27:44pushing back and trying to get them to

2:27:47yield and trying to get money saved with

2:27:50them. So, a lot of this is still fluid a

2:27:53little bit. And so what I'm I'm seeking

2:27:55for is permission that I reduce those

2:27:58fields and then I bolster the

2:28:00contingency fund in the budget and that

2:28:03allows me to pay for Energy United's

2:28:07upgrade, pay eventually for these NC DOT

2:28:10off-site improvements and to um pay for

2:28:14the mowers and and the other things that

2:28:17were not initially in the budget. And

2:28:19I'm welcome any questions or concerns.

2:28:21So, we'll still have four baseball

2:28:24fields.

2:28:24>> There'll be four out of the eight will

2:28:26be installed. [laughter] Yes.

2:28:27>> See, four is not enough.

2:28:29>> If not, [snorts]

2:28:32>> I know this kind of leads into our next

2:28:35>> thing, but we we brought this to the

2:28:37parks and recck board as well,

2:28:39>> and they did not want to lose the four

2:28:41fields as well.

2:28:42>> Okay.

2:28:42>> And uh because this park is supposed to

2:28:44be self-contained, no money from the

2:28:46county coming from it, it's got to stand

2:28:48on its own. when you lose that, as Todd

2:28:50said, you do you will lose the

2:28:52tournament aspect of it. Um, so that

2:28:55hurts the money coming in. So, what they

2:28:58wanted to do and what I I'll give great

2:29:01props to Dwayne. He quickly put together

2:29:04an RFP if y'all approve of us to do it

2:29:07to try to look for somebody to do

2:29:09sponsorships, get our sponsorship money

2:29:11that y'all approved, which is about $7

2:29:13million

2:29:15to get them to go out and try to find

2:29:17the sponsors to fulfill that $7 million

2:29:20to be able to pay this offset. So again,

2:29:23it's not costing the county the funds.

2:29:25It's still coming out of the funds

2:29:26that's going to the facility.

2:29:31So that that kind of kind of got into

2:29:33the second leeway, but that was your

2:29:34other op the other option that that's

2:29:36what the parks and recreation board

2:29:38wanted to me to bring up here and it's

2:29:40the reason it got added on right behind

2:29:42this as well.

2:29:43>> You know, we've talked um long time ago

2:29:48about the the idea of sponsorships,

2:29:51which is a good idea, and I thought I

2:29:53thought it was a good idea. and and

2:29:54there there were people that were coming

2:29:56to you at that particular time about

2:30:00could I be a sponsor and the only the

2:30:02only thing that I asked uh my ask was I

2:30:06didn't want to have sponsorships where

2:30:08you know their names are all over the

2:30:10place and banners all over the place and

2:30:13and to change the the way the park looks

2:30:17and appears to the to the county to be

2:30:21this is your county park you know this

2:30:23is your community center area that's

2:30:25going to serve the people. And so I'm

2:30:28I'm good with that. Um I'll just go

2:30:31ahead and say that and I if that'll help

2:30:34to help you with and and we knew at the

2:30:38you knew at the beginning that the the

2:30:41the roads were going to have to be

2:30:43addressed. I mean that's

2:30:44>> I knew a portion of the roads. It

2:30:46definitely got increased when

2:30:48>> we had some money in it to cover our

2:30:50stuff there. Yes. But when this other

2:30:52got added on, we don't have the money to

2:30:54>> right.

2:30:54>> When we shut down the second entrance at

2:30:57the request of the

2:30:58>> If we were to all of a sudden magically

2:30:59could put Riverwood exit back, we would

2:31:02probably not have to do 50 60% of these

2:31:05off-site improvements.

2:31:07>> And that's something else I'm going to

2:31:08say, too. And Steve, I'm from what I've

2:31:09read on the internet, you're against

2:31:11this. You're against it. Maybe maybe you

2:31:13can learn some stuff today or whatever

2:31:14that maybe you already know it.

2:31:17Um, I really don't think and and I guess

2:31:21we need to make a a phone call to the

2:31:23state. I don't think all these

2:31:24improvements right there at that

2:31:26intersection, you know, where the

2:31:27intersection

2:31:27>> Yeah.

2:31:28>> I mean, that's been bad for a long time.

2:31:31>> And to blame that just on us that that

2:31:33that intersection needs work. Y'all know

2:31:36where I'm talking about, right? Where

2:31:37comes out there at the church. I mean,

2:31:39I've hated that thing for years. You got

2:31:41to turn around and look way up the road

2:31:42there. So, I don't think all that's our

2:31:44responsibility. and maybe we can get the

2:31:47state to come. I I I think as a board we

2:31:49ought to ask the state, can y'all

2:31:51contribute to this? You know, I mean, um

2:31:54just to make us pay for that whole

2:31:55intersection, uh because we building a

2:31:58sports complex there, I don't think it's

2:32:00fair because they had an issue there to

2:32:02begin with. If we hadn't have done that,

2:32:03they'd probably be putting a roundabout

2:32:05in there soon or something.

2:32:06>> They had already purchased the easements

2:32:08>> in that area to improve those

2:32:10intersections. We just happened to come

2:32:11along and be

2:32:12>> at the right time.

2:32:13>> Their funding

2:32:14>> Mhm. I want I want to understand what's

2:32:17being presented just for my own benefit.

2:32:19>> Yes, sir.

2:32:20>> Are y'all asking us to put more money

2:32:22into it or are you asking just for the

2:32:24ability to go out and raise the money

2:32:26where it's not coming out of extra

2:32:28county dollars on top of what's already

2:32:29been put in it? I'm asking for,

2:32:33I guess, permission that I am building

2:32:35four less fields than presented on the

2:32:39original proposal and the ability to

2:32:41take that money and put it in the

2:32:43contingency

2:32:45to spend in a different way. That's what

2:32:47I'm asking on my side. And then in

2:32:49conjunction with that, asking for

2:32:51sponsorship money because clearly if

2:32:53they raise even half the sponsorship

2:32:56money, this conversation goes away. I'll

2:32:58build all eight fields and got not but

2:33:01I'm not asking for any more money

2:33:02>> right now with one sponsorship already

2:33:05>> and uh we're working on one and uh the

2:33:08problem is I just don't have time to go

2:33:10out myself and try to find sponsorships

2:33:12and that's what I've been trying to do

2:33:14and I met with a lot of people to start

2:33:15with and then with some negative public

2:33:19publicity some of them pulled out and uh

2:33:22so now you got to do a little bit more

2:33:24research and go after people that's

2:33:26willing to do it. Gotcha.

2:33:29But I don't think we need to build less

2:33:31fields, you know? I mean, again, this

2:33:33thing was going to be self-sufficient,

2:33:35and that's what we're looking for,

2:33:36something to be self-sufficient. So,

2:33:38when you take the tournament play, cuz I

2:33:40go to some of these other fields. I've

2:33:41been around and looked at them. Most of

2:33:42them have got six to eight fields, you

2:33:44know, seven, six, seven, um, eight. And

2:33:48that's what it takes to have this

2:33:49tournament play to come in

2:33:50>> either softball or baseball. softball or

2:33:52baseball, you know, and again, it's not

2:33:54fair to our citizens either that, you

2:33:56know, they want to I mean, there's a lot

2:33:58of people in this county that play,

2:34:00everybody's against travel ball, but

2:34:02there's a lot of kids that plays travel,

2:34:04right? [clears throat]

2:34:04As long as they can do it raising the

2:34:06money and it's not taking any more money

2:34:08on us. I mean, I think, you know, if

2:34:11they have to temporarily suspend those

2:34:14four fields, but yet you're saying you

2:34:16can get the money, then it's it's a mood

2:34:17issue. You're going to get it e you're

2:34:19going to get it. I'm not in favor of

2:34:20putting any extra county money into that

2:34:22to make that happen at

2:34:23>> Well, and they weren't asking for that.

2:34:25That that that was not the ask.

2:34:27>> And as we brought up at the parks board

2:34:29the other day when you were there that

2:34:30that we brought it up that that we're

2:34:32not looking for county funds. We're

2:34:34looking to be able to get somebody to go

2:34:36out and market this and find the find

2:34:38the sponsorships for us because I don't

2:34:41have the time to do it.

2:34:42>> Yeah. And you can ask being on parks and

2:34:45recreation, you can ask him. Um, I have

2:34:49told him since day one, since day one,

2:34:52you do not spend but $65 million. That's

2:34:56it. You're not. And Thomas will tell

2:34:58you, I I tell it to him about every

2:35:00month or so. And um I'm not going to ask

2:35:04for it and I'm not expecting him to ask

2:35:06for it.

2:35:07>> I was I was getting ready to say the

2:35:09same thing, which is that that has been

2:35:10the direction from from day one. And I

2:35:13know we we've talked about that. So, I

2:35:15mean, it's kind of with the rest of the

2:35:17board. As long as it's not additional

2:35:19county funds and you can pull from the

2:35:21sponsorships, I don't have a problem

2:35:23with it.

2:35:23>> Or the state that's better.

2:35:26>> Yeah.

2:35:26>> I I don't have the horsepower to against

2:35:29the state. So, I welcome any assistance

2:35:31to have options,

2:35:32>> right?

2:35:32>> Yeah.

2:35:33>> Does that take care of Does that take

2:35:35care of ENF simultaneously?

2:35:38>> Pretty much.

2:35:39>> Yes, sir. But something I talked about

2:35:41or I discussed with you yesterday,

2:35:43Brian, we need to look at cutting out

2:35:45one of the parking lots. Maybe if

2:35:47that'll help some binder

2:35:49>> and and I've done some quick math on

2:35:51that thing being successful. Okay.

2:35:53>> So again, I don't want to make

2:35:55something, you know, again, that would

2:35:57the public would love that if this thing

2:35:58would turn unsuccessful. So, you know,

2:36:01taking four fields out of this is is a

2:36:04pretty big deal, you know, and u

2:36:06>> and I can certainly I have begun the

2:36:09math process of removing some of those

2:36:12parking or shrinking some or turning

2:36:14some I would call it more into turning

2:36:15it into overflow parking instead of

2:36:17formal parking lots per se,

2:36:20>> but and I can definitely save some money

2:36:22doing that, but it's it's in the range

2:36:24of maybe 300,000 where I'm I'm that's

2:36:28not enough. But the sponsorship

2:36:31obviously even 50% of the sponsorship

2:36:33money would make I wouldn't had to come

2:36:35here [laughter]

2:36:36and have this [clears throat]

2:36:37conversation. But I just

2:36:38>> But if we can cut out 300 grand, put 300

2:36:40grand of that work into that.

2:36:42>> I'm sorry.

2:36:43>> Said if we can cut 300 I mean we talked

2:36:45about putting binder yesterday in the

2:36:46travel lanes of the parking lots, which

2:36:48in my opinion is not needed at all. You

2:36:50know, you you're only going to have car

2:36:52traffic in those lots. So there's no no

2:36:55re no reason for heavy duty asphalt in

2:36:57that area. Uh, luckily that's maybe

2:37:00somewhat of my expertise, but uh, so if

2:37:03that saves us 200 grand, then we need to

2:37:05spend that on something.

2:37:06>> I'm immediately working on that. I'm

2:37:08going through all the process for that.

2:37:09So yes, that would offset

2:37:12this numbers even

2:37:14>> and you never get as much discount from

2:37:16a contractor when you're asking for

2:37:18money back on credit.

2:37:21>> I mean, if he's a smart contractor,

2:37:23you're getting half the credit back, not

2:37:24>> I'm going to try to do better than that.

2:37:26>> Full credit back. So

2:37:28>> but that so yes if the sponsorship then

2:37:31this all goes away. I just uh I just in

2:37:34working with staff not thing we just

2:37:37didn't want to make an arbitrary

2:37:38decision when I'm cutting this and I'm

2:37:40moving money over here without

2:37:42disclosure to first the facilities

2:37:44committee and then to the board just hey

2:37:47here's what's going on here's what's

2:37:48happened

2:37:48>> and we went through the parks and recck

2:37:50committee

2:37:50>> went through the parks and recck

2:37:51committee. So, just trying to be

2:37:52transparent in where we had a couple

2:37:55Well, NC DOT has been my big one.

2:37:57>> Did Did you check and see how far you

2:37:59had to be away from the concession stand

2:38:01restroom?

2:38:02>> I had to be 500 ft and I cannot get it.

2:38:04>> Can't get there.

2:38:05>> Can't get there. Uh, so I I have to

2:38:08build that concession. If I build the

2:38:10four fields that we're in that we're

2:38:12talking about, I have to put the

2:38:14restrooms in there for the ADA travel

2:38:18path distance rules.

2:38:22That's interesting. How long has that

2:38:23rule been out? Because I know

2:38:24>> it's been in the code. It's been in the

2:38:27code for a long time. And that's

2:38:28federal. I mean, it's the federal

2:38:30interpretation.

2:38:30>> But one of the fields I go to down in

2:38:32Canapapolis, they don't have a

2:38:33concession stand at at each u.

2:38:35>> We don't need a concession stand.

2:38:37>> Well, but I'm saying the bathrooms and

2:38:39the concession stand. So, they don't

2:38:41have bathrooms at the fields either. the

2:38:43the bathroom and the concession stands

2:38:46all together completely away from

2:38:48>> and [snorts] their plans probably

2:38:49weren't submitted for review in 2025 for

2:38:52>> No, that's what I'm saying. When when

2:38:53did that I mean we run into it at Oak

2:38:55Grove Middle School, so I get it and

2:38:56that's been I don't know. I mean, the

2:38:58plans have been there a long the the

2:39:01this the code has been in there a long

2:39:02time,

2:39:03>> but the enforcement aspect of a building

2:39:06inspector choosing to push on one or the

2:39:09other is a lot of times the discretion

2:39:11of the plan reviewer and to be truthful

2:39:14that some of them really hone in on this

2:39:16and some of them really hone in on that

2:39:18and and so that was something brought up

2:39:20early. So, we knew we had to honor and

2:39:23in truth it would be a pretty good hall

2:39:25from those those four fields to get to

2:39:27the rest.

2:39:28>> And that's and that's one of the reasons

2:39:29even at Yaken River Park, if you

2:39:31remember, there's a museum that goes on

2:39:33the back end of of that picnic shelter

2:39:36we got. We couldn't get to the museum

2:39:39because we were out of that 500t range.

2:39:42So, that's until we till we put a

2:39:44restroom in it. And that's what we're

2:39:46still working on, trying to get a grant

2:39:47to get that money to be able to do that

2:39:50restroom and museum at that location cuz

2:39:52we're just outside of the 500t range.

2:39:55Picnic shelter made it in the museum

2:39:57would be out of it.

2:39:59>> Well, like I say, I'm just uh it'd be

2:40:01detrimental that we have to cut out four

2:40:03fields.

2:40:04Yeah, I understand.

2:40:05>> Want to say that

2:40:06>> I definitely don't want to do it because

2:40:08again, you're right because I'm giving

2:40:10I'm losing percentage on my money, the

2:40:12the the money to get it back

2:40:15>> to get it back. So, yeah, I I prefer

2:40:17just to build it and move on. But

2:40:19[snorts]

2:40:19>> I think we've made a decision.

2:40:21Everybody's Everybody's good about the

2:40:23information.

2:40:24>> Yeah.

2:40:24>> Okay. Okay.

2:40:27>> Thank you both.

2:40:27>> Thank you.

2:40:29>> All right. I'm going to call on Mr.

2:40:31Crook and he's going to uh give us a

2:40:35[clears throat] workshop on some data

2:40:38centers.

2:40:42>> Thank you, Madam Chair, fellow

2:40:43commissioners. Mr. Shook,

2:40:45congratulations. Look forward to working

2:40:46with you.

2:40:47>> Um,

2:40:48>> tell me where you want me to go.

2:40:50>> Um, well, that's a lot of data included

2:40:53in y'all's packets. A little light

2:40:55reading for you folks. [laughter] Uh,

2:40:57that was a fun two hours. Yeah. If

2:41:00you've got insomnia, I can assure you

2:41:02that'll cure it. Okay. But u anyway,

2:41:05wanted to just reach back out to the

2:41:08commissioners and lay out a plan moving

2:41:10forward on this topic. I know it's a

2:41:11very controversial topic. Um and talk

2:41:15about potential schedule. um would like

2:41:18to ask permission this morning to

2:41:20prepare an application, have it on the

2:41:23consent agenda on September 14th to move

2:41:26forward with the text amendment to the

2:41:28Davidson County zoning ordinance to

2:41:30define, regulate, and u data centers.

2:41:34The um the schedule after that would

2:41:37look like a potential planning board

2:41:39date in early October. Maybe need both

2:41:42of those uh planning board dates if if

2:41:44we need them. and then this the public

2:41:46hearing set back in front of this board

2:41:48for October 26th. Um, I'm planning

2:41:52because this this is something we really

2:41:53need to get right. Um, I'm planning on

2:41:57having an informal workshop. If you

2:41:59folks set this public hear or set accept

2:42:03the application on September 14th for a

2:42:07public hearing on October 26th, I'm

2:42:09going to have an informal workshop the

2:42:11very next day with our planning board,

2:42:13get some information into them and let

2:42:16them kind of be looking at things and

2:42:18then when we do come to the October 6

2:42:21planning board meeting, they will be

2:42:22educated and have some opinions about

2:42:24where we want to go. Um, and then same

2:42:28thing with this board. I I we'll be

2:42:30sharing information with this board as

2:42:33it comes in. Again, I'd like I thank Mr.

2:42:35Curry. He's in the office. He's been

2:42:37tremendously helpful with this and and

2:42:39providing just information.

2:42:42>> No uh no opinion, just these are my

2:42:44sources. This is what's happening. The

2:42:46um the effects of these facilities are

2:42:49are fairly wellnown. And I think the

2:42:52decision and and the discussion this

2:42:53morning I wanted to talk with you folks

2:42:55about is how involved do we want to be

2:42:56in regulating these facilities. I think

2:42:59from our standpoint I see us defining

2:43:02the different types of data centers and

2:43:05potentially seeing separate sets of

2:43:07regulations accordingly. Uh everything

2:43:10from you know hypers scale AI to hypers

2:43:14scale to colo to you know the smaller

2:43:16enterprise stuff. Some of it we may want

2:43:18to leave alone. some of it we may want

2:43:19to, you know, have a have a a set of

2:43:23regulations that is not very intrusive.

2:43:26And with the larger stuff, we may want

2:43:28[cough] we may want to to take a deep

2:43:30dive and make sure, you know,

2:43:32everything's there from resources to to

2:43:34setbacks and um you know, any other any

2:43:37other um issue that these things can

2:43:40create.

2:43:42this morning, just to put a bug in the

2:43:44in the board's ears and for you folks to

2:43:46be thinking about stuff, I wanted to

2:43:48kind of go over some of the things that

2:43:50I see other jurisdictions regulating.

2:43:53Um, I'm seeing I'm seeing noise, some of

2:43:55them from noise studies to just setting

2:43:57a a flat decel, the um setbacks,

2:44:01anything from 75t all the way out to,500

2:44:04ft. um lot size that that's can be set

2:44:09static or it can be scalable based on

2:44:11the size of the proposed facility. Um

2:44:14landscaping I think um buffering

2:44:17architectural design anything from

2:44:19building design to you know sound

2:44:22absorption panels around noise apparatus

2:44:25outside generators cooling facilities

2:44:28that type of thing. Um, water cooling. I

2:44:31see that regulated. I'm I'm proposing

2:44:34these topics. Um, I know that in

2:44:37discussions with some folks already, the

2:44:40u the double closed loop systems greatly

2:44:43reduce the the amount of water up up to

2:44:4670% potentially that that's used. um

2:44:50power. Some of the uh some of the

2:44:52jurisdictions are, you know, regulating

2:44:54power and and with respect to that,

2:44:57they're regulating pulses. You know, a

2:44:59heavy use power draw on the system can

2:45:03create pulses or surges and things like

2:45:05that. I don't understand that. But some

2:45:08regulations are speaking to a power

2:45:12study to to see if that's going to be

2:45:15taking place and if uh put the app put

2:45:17the uh infrastructure in place to

2:45:19prohibit that from happening,

2:45:22fluctuations and so forth. Um potential

2:45:26violations, enforcements and penalties.

2:45:28I've seen that in some uh documents that

2:45:31are being u adopted across the the

2:45:34country. Really the um application and

2:45:38and some environmental aspects have been

2:45:41looked at our approval process with the

2:45:43structure of our zoning regulations.

2:45:46Right now, we can do anything from use

2:45:49by right to um special development

2:45:52standards, special use permits, or we

2:45:56could require conditional zoning. Uh we

2:45:58we've done that in the past, which which

2:46:00gives you the ability to be very

2:46:02specific to the site. We did that for

2:46:04Commissioner Shook. We adopted a

2:46:06conditional zoning process for um in

2:46:09event centers because they can be very

2:46:11noisy. They can be very loud. So, but

2:46:13and every site's kind of specific. So,

2:46:17the decibel level at the distance to

2:46:19adjoining properties, the existing

2:46:21foliage, that kind of thing is is

2:46:23unique. for something like this. If

2:46:26you're going to have a set static set of

2:46:28rules that you need to uh that you're

2:46:31trying to enforce, then then that may

2:46:33not be the route to go because with a

2:46:35conditional zoning request, you have to

2:46:37um both the applicant and the the

2:46:40approving body have to agree on those.

2:46:42Um so the u a special use permit could

2:46:46could also be an option. those those

2:46:50processes are they lend themselves very

2:46:54well to a set of specific standards like

2:46:57we're potentially talking about. Need to

2:46:59think about the zoning classification

2:47:01that we want this in as well. Um,

2:47:08a lot of a lot of folks are um looking

2:47:11at decommissioning plans, whether

2:47:13there's a bond, whether it's static. Um,

2:47:16the the the use of these buildings

2:47:17after, you know, you keep hearing things

2:47:19about the technology being obsolete in

2:47:23in x amount of time. Nobody really knows

2:47:25what that looks like, but te the way

2:47:27technology moves could be sooner, it

2:47:30could be later. in these these buildings

2:47:32if if the board wants to. Um it's not

2:47:35unprecedented. We we have that um or

2:47:38we're working on that for our solar

2:47:39stuff and some other things where a

2:47:42funded decommissioning plan with a bond

2:47:44or something like that would be put into

2:47:45place in order to make sure that the

2:47:48properties

2:47:49put back in a percentage of of usability

2:47:53after the facilities are done.

2:47:55>> We've been working on that two or three

2:47:56years now. Got anywhere yet. So,

2:47:59>> Yep. Yep. Um and then visit to exist ex

2:48:04existing facilities. I think we're we're

2:48:06trying to set up some uh visitations to

2:48:09existing facilities and we may have some

2:48:12um may have some information where we

2:48:14could potentially go look at some hypers

2:48:16scale stuff and we'd be glad to share

2:48:18that with with the board. But um this is

2:48:21kind of just what I wanted to talk to

2:48:22the board about this morning. kind of

2:48:24refresh you on where we're going and the

2:48:26the time frame with which we're we're

2:48:29looking at trying to get something in

2:48:30place. So, I'd be um that's really all I

2:48:33have. Be glad to answer any questions.

2:48:36>> Any questions?

2:48:37>> Uh I just got a couple of little things

2:48:39to say. Somebody told me the other day

2:48:42that they had read somewhere and that I

2:48:45had said uh we couldn't stop data

2:48:47centers.

2:48:49So, I want to clarify what exactly I

2:48:52said. There's been five opinions come

2:48:55out of your office, right? So far,

2:48:57>> uh, I think we've got one in writing and

2:49:00we've verbally maybe one or two in

2:49:02writing, Todd, and and maybe we've we've

2:49:05given a few over the phone.

2:49:07>> Okay. Um, somebody had told me five, but

2:49:10that must have been not u information.

2:49:14But my point I was trying to make, we've

2:49:16already gave somebody an opinion, a

2:49:19formal opinion. So we can put all the

2:49:22moratoriums we want to on this and that

2:49:24don't stop that developer from putting a

2:49:27data center there because he's already

2:49:30got an opinion a legal a formal opinion

2:49:33um of their property. So I just want to

2:49:35make that clear that you know everybody

2:49:38saying a data center or a moratorum that

2:49:41don't stop probably one of the best

2:49:44pieces of property in this county for

2:49:46one has already got it in writing that

2:49:48he can do it by right. So I just don't

2:49:50think you can take that right away from

2:49:52him once he's already done that. So I

2:49:54just want to be clear for for all the

2:49:56people out in the public that didn't

2:49:57quite understand what I was saying. Now

2:49:59whether we can uh whether we can stop

2:50:02data centers period I don't know. So, I

2:50:04guess that'd be a legal matter of how

2:50:08how uh stringent we put the guidelines

2:50:11that they got to live by. So, if we put

2:50:14a 5,000 foot um

2:50:18uh

2:50:18>> setback

2:50:18>> setback from a property line, that'd

2:50:20probably kill it. Now, whether that

2:50:22would hold up in the court of law or

2:50:24not, I don't know.

2:50:25>> That's that's that the the answer is

2:50:27kind of out on that. The Institute of

2:50:29Government, if it's a legal use of

2:50:30property, do you have to provide a place

2:50:32for it? And we really don't have case

2:50:34law that speaks to that.

2:50:35>> That's right.

2:50:36>> I've been trained that that you need to

2:50:38provide a place for a legal use of

2:50:40property.

2:50:42>> So any I just want to make that clear

2:50:44for all these people that come up with

2:50:45their own conclusions about what I say

2:50:47and and what I do. Uh I usually I'm

2:50:50looking down the road a little bit

2:50:52further than than a lot of people. But

2:50:54anyhow, they some I don't have a problem

2:50:56with setbacks. Uh I think we probably

2:50:59ought to do a special use. And the one

2:51:01of the reasons I don't want to do a

2:51:02mortorium, let's get to work.

2:51:03>> Yeah.

2:51:04>> You know, why do a mortorium? Like I

2:51:05say, we've been talking about

2:51:06decommissioning solar panels and what's

2:51:08going to happen to them for three years

2:51:10and we don't have anything. Um,

2:51:12>> but the moratorium on that runs out in

2:51:14December, right? And that too will be

2:51:16coming.

2:51:17>> You know, let's get and I'm I'm

2:51:19self-employed, so when we got issues to

2:51:21work on, we got to work on them right

2:51:22away and try to solve the problem. you

2:51:24know, again, probably the best site in

2:51:26the countyy's already pretty much been

2:51:29been told that they can build a data

2:51:31center there by by our old um zoning

2:51:34ordinance. So, again, uh if that

2:51:36happens, and it just happens. Um but

2:51:39anyhow, I think setbacks ought to be

2:51:41something we ought to look at. I think

2:51:42we ought to look at pre and post uh

2:51:44noise levels. Again, you [clears throat]

2:51:46don't need to make somebody more

2:51:47stringent than they already are with

2:51:49noise levels. So, you need to do and

2:51:51some of this is where I've been reading

2:51:52pre and post. Okay.

2:51:54>> Mhm.

2:51:54>> Uh power is the big driver. Like I say,

2:51:58um some of these people ain't going to

2:52:00get anything cuz there ain't no power

2:52:01out there,

2:52:02>> right?

2:52:02>> Um now again, we can have them do all

2:52:05the studies they want to do, but uh the

2:52:07power's going going to be left up to

2:52:10somebody a whole lot smarter than me

2:52:11about power and probably the rest of

2:52:12this board. The power companies is going

2:52:14to have to tell them they can or they

2:52:16can't uh have power to this site. Um

2:52:21>> and and and Duke has put in place a uh

2:52:24Duke who provides power to everyone

2:52:26anyways has put into place a uh anyone

2:52:30over 100 megawatt user has to forward

2:52:33$100,000 for their engineers to study

2:52:36the site and study the load that's being

2:52:40requested. uh at the end of 120 days,

2:52:43they come with a report and you've got

2:52:4530 days uh as the applicant,

2:52:47non-negotiable, to accept it or not

2:52:49accept it. And it's my understanding if

2:52:52you accept it, you have to put 90% of

2:52:54the infrastructure cost forward to Duke

2:52:57to build out that service to the site.

2:53:01Uh non-interest earning, but refundable

2:53:04should something fall through.

2:53:07>> And that's good. I got a call this

2:53:08morning at 6:15, believe it or not, from

2:53:10somebody that said, "Hey, you got a

2:53:12minute to talk about data centers since

2:53:13I seen it on the agenda." Said, "Sure, I

2:53:15do." So, anyhow, that was their concern,

2:53:17too. We as taxpayers don't want to pay

2:53:20for their upgraded power to the system.

2:53:22And I agree with that. So, I would say

2:53:24right now, as a board member, no

2:53:26incentives to data centers. You know, I

2:53:28don't want to give any incentives to

2:53:30data centers. Uh really, I don't want to

2:53:32give any incentives to anybody. I mean,

2:53:36we given half of our tax dollars back,

2:53:38>> but yet those of y'all that don't know

2:53:40him or hadn't been around him, I've

2:53:42heard him say that for years. So,

2:53:45>> you know, we're giving incentives for a

2:53:46corporation to sell their stuff either

2:53:48nationwide or worldwide. And that's on

2:53:50the backs of our citizens, you know,

2:53:52when we give these incentives and we

2:53:54need the money for the schools just like

2:53:56was here earlier. And you know, so

2:53:58again, um, me being on the EDC board, I

2:54:01found out nine times out of 10, they

2:54:03never ask for incentives anywhere up

2:54:05front. Now, they'll come around at the

2:54:07end and ask for a little bit most of the

2:54:09time because that's their consultant's

2:54:11[clears throat] job. You know,

2:54:13>> uh, since I've been on the board, I've

2:54:14had one that has they stepped off the

2:54:16airplane going, "What are you going to

2:54:18give us?" You know, we want the property

2:54:20for a dollar. Uh, you know, I mean, and

2:54:23I knew right then they were not a fit

2:54:24for us, you know. Uh so again no

2:54:27incentives uh power to be either

2:54:30self-generated.

2:54:31>> Now the company we did have a company

2:54:34looking a while back and they pulled out

2:54:37but they were going to generate their

2:54:38own power.

2:54:39>> So that was going to be no money to the

2:54:42you know the citizens power wasn't going

2:54:43to go up. They was going to generate

2:54:44their own. Um I was just reading earlier

2:54:49um you know Lowden County, Virginia

2:54:52whatever. I've been reading there for a

2:54:53few days and talked to the gentleman up

2:54:55there or whatever. They've got a new

2:54:56chip out now that's a thousand times

2:54:59more power efficient. It's the newest

2:55:01thing on the market. I guess Louden

2:55:03County, Virginia's got the most data

2:55:05centers as anybody.

2:55:06>> They do.

2:55:06>> I think that's where the the fiber optic

2:55:08comes in from Europe. So,

2:55:10>> the key driver behind that is they had

2:55:12plenty of power and they had plenty of

2:55:14fiber optics. The fiber optic moves it

2:55:16so fast. So, you know, again, we ain't

2:55:18got that many sites in in this county

2:55:20that's got the power,

2:55:22>> right,

2:55:22>> that it's going to take to do it. So,

2:55:23that kind of shrinks it down to where it

2:55:25can go. Now, I've seen they got one

2:55:27going downtown Charlotte. So, I don't

2:55:28know. It must be a low uh power use data

2:55:31center, I don't have a clue, but they're

2:55:33putting it downtown in one of the old

2:55:35buildings. So, again, to put all the

2:55:37data centers, to clump them all into one

2:55:39category, just ain't going to work.

2:55:41>> Can't do it. You can't do it. It's

2:55:42impossible because you do have some

2:55:44enterprise data centers that are

2:55:45strictly specifically for a certain use.

2:55:48My son works for a Wells Fargo data

2:55:50center on Silence Creek Parkway. You

2:55:52know, great job. Um it it's low power

2:55:54use, but it's just for Wells Fargo. So

2:55:57you you something like that. We would

2:55:59probably tend to shy away from any

2:56:02additional regulation. We're the the the

2:56:04threshold for regulation seems to be

2:56:07because data centers are going to use,

2:56:10you know, we we've had conversations

2:56:11with some 800 megawws and anything from

2:56:15like 50 up to 100 where Duke doesn't

2:56:19have that special application process.

2:56:23That's kind of the threshold where we

2:56:25would may need to look and see how

2:56:27that's going to affect the existing

2:56:29folks on that on that service. But there

2:56:31again, we're not experts at that. And

2:56:34I'm just putting forward that some

2:56:36people do ask for a a you know,

2:56:38electrical uh fund, a plan to see if if

2:56:42or a study to make sure that it's not

2:56:44going to impact existing service,

2:56:45>> you know, and I'm sure Duke requires

2:56:47that, you know,

2:56:48>> I know they do for a hundred up, but

2:56:49they they may require for for

2:56:52>> Duke's going to know whether they can

2:56:53give them the power or not. We're not,

2:56:55you know, so we're just we're just

2:56:56requiring somebody to pay for a study

2:56:58that none of us probably know how to

2:57:00read to begin with. And if we did, we

2:57:02wouldn't know whether Duke had the

2:57:04capacity to give it to them or not, you

2:57:05know.

2:57:06>> Um, so that's just one of my things.

2:57:09Again, I think we ought to probably come

2:57:11up with something like a special use

2:57:12permit.

2:57:14You can still keep an LI. I don't think

2:57:16it's HI stuff. Um, but you may disagree

2:57:19with that. I mean,

2:57:21>> well, I I think it could potentially be

2:57:23either if if depending on the the the

2:57:26conditions that you that you put on the

2:57:28the property like in conversations, it

2:57:31seemed like with heavy foliage and sound

2:57:33deadening panels, like 500 foot seemed

2:57:36to be a reasonable setback to get the

2:57:38decibb down to where you can't even

2:57:40hardly hear it at the property lines. So

2:57:44there's there's a lot of sliding

2:57:45variables in there with respect to what

2:57:48you where you want to land on on noise

2:57:50and what you want to do with foliage and

2:57:53what you want to do with architecture

2:57:54and sound deadening and that kind of

2:57:56thing.

2:57:57Uh but again,

2:57:59>> no ma'am. No ma'am.

2:58:02>> Um

2:58:04>> low frequency, high frequency, it makes

2:58:07a difference.

2:58:07>> Both of those makes a difference.

2:58:09>> Again, just because your 200 foot

2:58:12setback don't mean that's going to

2:58:13handle any of that. I mean, again, I

2:58:15think it's pre and postdeimal

2:58:17uh readings on both. Um, and then again

2:58:21is a special use permit and maybe we can

2:58:24throw some conditions in depending upon

2:58:26what we find

2:58:28uh that they need to do with that type

2:58:30of stuff.

2:58:32>> Well, and and therein lies the the

2:58:34benefit of a special use permit. With a

2:58:36special use permit, the approving body

2:58:38can

2:58:40place conditions on that use

2:58:43>> that do not have to be agreed upon by

2:58:45the applicant as long as they're

2:58:47pertinent to that use.

2:58:49>> Yeah. So that that gives you a little

2:58:51bit of extra enforcibility to do

2:58:53something like that.

2:58:54>> And what I've said along, Steve, just so

2:58:56you know, you can be 200 feet away and

2:58:58hear

2:59:00>> that don't mean it's going to be quiet

2:59:01at the at the neighbor's house, you

2:59:03know? I mean, you can hear trucks

2:59:04bagging up with alarms going off and

2:59:07slamming two just because you come up

2:59:08with a 200 foot setback or a 500, that

2:59:11don't that don't really tell you

2:59:13anything, you know. Um

2:59:15>> and hence I think that's why some

2:59:17jurisdictions uh adopt a sound study

2:59:20>> right

2:59:20>> that make make the applicant do a sound

2:59:22study showing what the end it can take

2:59:26the specifics of the site into account

2:59:28and then design of the building the

2:59:31level of sound coming off the equipment

2:59:33and and kind of generate what what it

2:59:35will be at the property line

2:59:36>> and that's what I'm saying there if at

2:59:37the property line is 60 dB pre then you

2:59:41can't really restrict them to be at 50

2:59:44because it's already at 60 at the

2:59:46property line, you know,

2:59:47>> and [snorts] and the reason I'm saying

2:59:49that it could be in an industrial area

2:59:51where you've already got some noise

2:59:52that's that exceeds their 50 dBm that we

2:59:56would put on them. So, we would probably

2:59:58have to do that in a special use knowing

3:00:01that, you know, this site here is

3:00:03already at 65 decimals, so we can't

3:00:07require them to be any less than that.

3:00:09>> Sure. Um, so I think the special use is

3:00:12the way to go.

3:00:13>> Oh, absolutely. Uh, me being with the

3:00:16telephone industry for 40 years, uh, you

3:00:19know, those servers, what we used, you

3:00:22know, they were DC

3:00:25powered servers.

3:00:26>> Okay.

3:00:27>> So, you know, we're filtering that power

3:00:30coming in through batteries.

3:00:32>> Okay.

3:00:32>> And it's, you know, being fed with 48

3:00:35volt

3:00:36>> interesting

3:00:37>> to the servers.

3:00:38>> Yeah. So they put off a different

3:00:40frequency than an AC

3:00:44powered server.

3:00:45>> Okay.

3:00:45>> So, you know, those are all things

3:00:48that's got to be considered,

3:00:50you know, for power and for noise.

3:00:53>> Yeah.

3:00:54>> I mean, that's uh

3:00:55>> and I've read about the battery stuff.

3:00:57You don't want lithium batteries there.

3:00:58I mean, I'm not crazy.

3:00:59>> They're all they all have to be wet. So,

3:01:01>> right.

3:01:02>> I mean, they're way too dangerous for

3:01:04>> So, and see that contaminates the earth

3:01:06too so bad, you I mean, I'm not crazy

3:01:08about batteries. I'd rather have them

3:01:10gener generated power, you know, with

3:01:12with generators or

3:01:13>> but the wet cell is so different than,

3:01:16you know, the old wet cell. Uh, you

3:01:19know,

3:01:20>> when you have the wet cell batteries,

3:01:23>> I don't want to get into, you know, a

3:01:25big explanation of them, but they are

3:01:28safe. You know, they're proven

3:01:31uh reliability and that sort of thing.

3:01:34So those servers that work off of those

3:01:37and in the phone industry, we had

3:01:39everything, you know, as far as our

3:01:42networks, they were all uh DC operated

3:01:46servers. And uh but it still takes a ton

3:01:50of cooling. So I mean, you're going to

3:01:52have to have, you know, lots of tonnage

3:01:54of cooling in a building. So that

3:01:57creates you know water

3:02:00>> either water use or recycling water use

3:02:02with gly and like I say that's that's

3:02:04sight specific. We got to look at it and

3:02:07uh

3:02:07>> so special, you know, doing a special

3:02:09permission

3:02:10>> and and every one of them is going to be

3:02:11different, you know. So this one here

3:02:12needs a little bit of battery backup and

3:02:14that may be different. This one here

3:02:15needs generators. Everybody don't have

3:02:17the same plan, right?

3:02:18>> So we need to look at them one by one

3:02:21>> and go um this is what we need. Now I

3:02:23get it. If they going to build their own

3:02:25power on site, that probably takes heavy

3:02:28industrial. So, we may have to end up

3:02:30zoning hi a little bit in the center of

3:02:33this LI just for the power generation,

3:02:35but that don't mean we need the whole

3:02:37piece of property zone hi because that

3:02:40just opens it up. But the

3:02:42decommissioning thing I'm really

3:02:44concerned about. I've always been this

3:02:45way on the solar panels. I mean, I don't

3:02:47want us to end up with a bunch of old

3:02:49computer servers in a building one day

3:02:51that the taxpayers has got to uh find

3:02:54out or pay to pay to dispose. So

3:02:57[snorts] that decommissioning thing, I

3:02:58mean, I bond's okay. But if they ain't

3:03:01paid their insurance uh bill, then uh

3:03:04their bond's no good because uh I'm

3:03:07pretty much a cash you put the cash up.

3:03:10>> Some jurisdictions are requiring a

3:03:12funded decommissioning plan,

3:03:13>> right?

3:03:14>> And and some of this stuff may be taken

3:03:16care of us with Senate Bill 7:30, uh

3:03:19which is still in in committee, I think.

3:03:21So if if that passes, there'll be some

3:03:23guard rails that that we'll have to

3:03:25abide by anyways.

3:03:26>> But again, if they don't think of that,

3:03:28then we got to think of it. Exactly. You

3:03:29know, because I mean they may not think

3:03:31of every we ain't going to think of

3:03:32everything. We're going to try

3:03:34>> and we're going to get it as good as we

3:03:36can and there's probably going to be

3:03:37somewhere down the road we go

3:03:39>> out of all this stuff we read, somebody

3:03:41didn't think about this.

3:03:42>> Well, people are coming up with new

3:03:44ideas and as I alluded to, technology

3:03:46changes just like that. So, um, that

3:03:49that it's a moving goalpost, so to

3:03:51speak.

3:03:52>> And I get it. Nobody wants them. It

3:03:54seems like a lot of people don't want

3:03:56them, but everything we do, um, our

3:03:59agenda here is sitting in a data center

3:04:01somewhere, you know, I guess downstairs

3:04:02on our data center. Um, but after

3:04:06looking to see how much this stuff

3:04:08costs, I was telling somebody the other

3:04:09day, I pay 140 bucks a month for or

3:04:11that's what they want for QuickBooks

3:04:13Online. Okay? And I thought, man, this

3:04:16is crazy expensive. You know, 140 bucks

3:04:18a month. Well, I get it now because the

3:04:19data centers are so expensive and that's

3:04:22where this stuff is being stored at and

3:04:24the power that it uses. And, you know,

3:04:26again, I I guess I can see now why it

3:04:29cost 140 bucks for just a little old uh

3:04:32QuickBooks program for me to run. So,

3:04:34but I do have some things here and I

3:04:36think as commissioners, we can sit down

3:04:38pretty quick. we can we can listen or we

3:04:40need to send a few things to the

3:04:42planning board, I guess, so they can

3:04:44hear what we got to say uh of what we

3:04:46would like up front. Um and then they

3:04:50can come up with their ideas and we can

3:04:51come up with ours and we'll have a rule

3:04:52and anything moving from here forward.

3:04:55Uh we hopefully have a something in

3:04:58place by when?

3:04:59>> The end of October potentially. And um

3:05:02>> that's not that's not far away

3:05:04>> because I I would I would like to have

3:05:05an informal workshop with the planning

3:05:07board on the 15th. uh which would be the

3:05:10day after you folks said it. We wouldn't

3:05:11take any action that night. It would

3:05:13just be an educ an introduction to the

3:05:15topic and and you know may potentially

3:05:18some ideas from commissioners. If y'all

3:05:19want to forward those to us, we'll be

3:05:20glad to share them.

3:05:23[snorts]

3:05:23>> Um

3:05:24>> I don't I mean mine's just very few, you

3:05:27know. I mean the the pre and post

3:05:30decimal stuff. I don't know if you want

3:05:31to make notes of this, Debbie. And I

3:05:33don't know if anybody here has something

3:05:35they want to give Debbie, but

3:05:36>> would would you like that in the sound

3:05:38of a sound study potentially,

3:05:39>> right? A pre and post, you know, again,

3:05:42um that's kind of one of the guidelines

3:05:44and again this special use, but they

3:05:45need to know what what they are up

3:05:47against before uh decommissioning's big

3:05:50for me. Uh power to be self-sufficient

3:05:53or um

3:05:56no cost to the to the consumer to our

3:05:59local consumers.

3:06:01Um,

3:06:03again, we got to allocate sewer to them.

3:06:05That's something that I know you don't

3:06:07know anything about, and these guys here

3:06:09probably don't [clears throat]

3:06:10don't know really what we've been doing

3:06:12for years either. Maybe they do, but we

3:06:14allocate sewer for every project.

3:06:16Anyhow,

3:06:17>> that's right.

3:06:17>> We don't have but a certain amount of

3:06:19sewer in this county to allocate. We

3:06:21We're not like Lexington or Thomasville

3:06:23or High Point. Most of our all of our

3:06:25sewer goes to those people. Okay. So, we

3:06:27don't own a sewer plant oursel. So, we

3:06:30got to allocate sewer to these projects

3:06:32anyhow. So, if we don't allocate sewer

3:06:35to them, they don't get to build anyhow

3:06:36because they got to have a place to to

3:06:38get rid of their sewer. Uh I think we

3:06:41got about 150,000 gallons left or so,

3:06:44maybe right

3:06:46>> 75 or something to Lexington.

3:06:49>> Lexington. Yeah, that that's

3:06:51>> again that's moving when Thomasville

3:06:53comes online at the end of 28th.

3:06:54>> That's moving a little bit. We'll have a

3:06:56little bit more

3:06:57>> and we probably got about 750,000

3:06:59gallons of Thomasville somewhere around

3:07:01there because the sewer that's coming

3:07:03off election is going to Thomasville. So

3:07:05it's going to eat that up. That's the

3:07:06sewer line at New Core Zone. So you know

3:07:10again we're not going to give everybody

3:07:12if a data center come up today and

3:07:14wanted 700,000 gallons of sewer capacity

3:07:16we wouldn't give it to

3:07:17>> give it to them

3:07:18>> because that would that would kill the

3:07:19rest of development here in the county

3:07:21that we may or may not want to do. So it

3:07:24to me personally, we've always got the

3:07:26upper hand with the sewer capacity.

3:07:28>> Mhm.

3:07:29>> So what we're willing to give give up

3:07:31on. So that's that's another uh vehicle

3:07:35there that we can use that again if

3:07:37somebody comes up and needs a million

3:07:39gallons a day, we don't have it.

3:07:41>> Would would the board um have a have the

3:07:43taste for some environmental stuff like,

3:07:46you know, heat plumes or, you know,

3:07:48stuff like that to to look in? Yes,

3:07:52>> I I would assume we should have some

3:07:54kind of environmental environmental

3:07:55impact study.

3:07:56>> Oh, absolutely.

3:07:58>> The the evaporative cooling and again

3:08:00I'm not the expert. I know that there's

3:08:03different types of systems and

3:08:04traditionally you had a closed system

3:08:06and they called it closed loop but then

3:08:08you cooled it evaporatively and it still

3:08:10gassed off a lot of of water or steam

3:08:13into the air creating some type of heat

3:08:15plume. I understand that technology is

3:08:17changing as well and that that's uh it's

3:08:20greatly reducing that. So it's um

3:08:22>> so if you do that are you going to do

3:08:24that for all plants that that comes here

3:08:26though? Again

3:08:28>> I think we have to categorize the

3:08:29different types of facilities and and

3:08:31get in in and enforcing regulation we

3:08:34love to find love to find definable

3:08:38benchmarks where if it goes over this

3:08:41it's this if it's under that it's this

3:08:43and regulate those accordingly. The

3:08:45reason I'm saying that, Newore does a

3:08:46whole lot of cooling. Okay,

3:08:48>> that's a big They got a big cooling

3:08:50system there and ponds and holding tanks

3:08:52and

3:08:53>> Right.

3:08:53>> Again, that's something we don't know a

3:08:55whole lot about and

3:08:57>> right

3:08:58>> uh I'm not so sure where we would take

3:09:00that information to.

3:09:03>> Okay. Again, I'm asking y'all because

3:09:06they can do all these studies, but if we

3:09:07don't really know what we're looking at,

3:09:10>> we would we would have to have an expert

3:09:12to know,

3:09:13>> you know, you know,

3:09:14>> they're they're they're

3:09:16>> Would we would we have turned new core

3:09:18down

3:09:19>> that that Yeah, that I don't know.

3:09:21>> Chairman Yates uh de department of

3:09:24environmental DEQ already regulates a

3:09:27lot of that.

3:09:28>> That's right. So, I mean, why do we

3:09:29regulate something that DEQ is already

3:09:31regulating? So, that's a good point

3:09:33there, David. Thank you. Um because

3:09:36again, if we get too vested into it,

3:09:38then that's their job to make sure of

3:09:40that.

3:09:41>> For instance, Newore had to have a clean

3:09:43air permit before they could even start

3:09:45building from DEQ.

3:09:46>> Yeah, that took a year and a half.

3:09:48You're right. It took them a year and a

3:09:49half to get that. Edgar had to get one

3:09:52permit. So,

3:09:53>> and we have to sign off on the

3:09:55consistency with those as well locally.

3:09:57So, the the air quality permits.

3:09:59>> So, to me, that's digging in for us way

3:10:01deeper than we need to go. that that's a

3:10:02state deal and

3:10:04>> there's federal guidelines they got to

3:10:06go by. So, okay.

3:10:08>> I think what we're here for, if I'm not

3:10:10mistaken, is decide what to give them a

3:10:13direction of where to go forward with

3:10:15the workshop. Right.

3:10:16>> Well, I I my main purpose was to just

3:10:19reapproach after the 24th and let you

3:10:22could you give you guys a kind of a

3:10:23schedule of where what we're looking at

3:10:25and talk about the topics that we would

3:10:27uh potentially be regulating so that you

3:10:29guys can

3:10:31>> uh if we want to go for special use or

3:10:33conditional use.

3:10:35Yeah,

3:10:36>> correct. Yes.

3:10:36>> So, everybody's good with special use.

3:10:38Is that

3:10:38>> Yeah,

3:10:39>> I would be.

3:10:40>> I'd actually like to talk some.

3:10:41>> Okay,

3:10:42>> Lee. Um, for the Harrisonenberg example

3:10:46um

3:10:47in up in Virginia, it mentions it

3:10:49requires a special use permit adding

3:10:52discretionary review and public input.

3:10:55So I guess hypothetically, let's say we

3:10:58move forward, we get the text amendment

3:11:00in place with the the special use that's

3:11:02been talked about. So for any data

3:11:05center that then tries to come here,

3:11:08need a special use, they have to get

3:11:10approval from this board.

3:11:12>> If you make it a class A special use,

3:11:14this board would be the approving body.

3:11:17And that kind of aligns Steve with what

3:11:18you were saying during the moratorum

3:11:20debate or a couple weeks ago where is

3:11:23let us still have that say and let it

3:11:25still go to a public hearing and get

3:11:27input from the public.

3:11:29>> That's right. That's right. That's be

3:11:31truthful. There's a lot of hypocrisy

3:11:34with people who claim to be opposed to

3:11:36data centers. If you're truly opposed to

3:11:38data center, throw your phone away cuz

3:11:40they're full of data.

3:11:42Now people want to shake their head

3:11:44because they got one argument. They're

3:11:46not open to anybody else's. But there

3:11:48the thing about it is is we all use

3:11:51data. That don't mean I'm supporting

3:11:54data centers, but there's certain data

3:11:56centers that I might be encouraged to

3:11:58look at and if it were my under what I

3:12:01was looking at to to push forward. Uh,

3:12:04some of them I wouldn't care to thy

3:12:06squat about, but I'm not going to be so

3:12:09naive as to blanketly close my mind to

3:12:13every data center without taking a look

3:12:15at them. And that's pretty much what we

3:12:17what you said.

3:12:18>> We recognize and and Todd's touched on

3:12:20it, you've touched on it, which is there

3:12:22there's a wide spectrum of of data

3:12:24centers. The big concern, at least for

3:12:26me personally, and I think probably for

3:12:27the board and want to put some

3:12:28regulations in place, are the the larger

3:12:30ones, the hyp the hypers scale ones.

3:12:32That's really what um this is about. And

3:12:35so if uh I guess to the question of the

3:12:37special use then yes if if again the

3:12:40moratorum is kind of out of the picture

3:12:42right now then in my opinion the next

3:12:44best option would be the special use

3:12:46assuming of course we get to to review

3:12:48and it goes before the public hearing

3:12:50>> because I think it gives you all the

3:12:52options you need. you won't especially

3:12:54we use the public review and then we as

3:12:56a board have a final say on the thing

3:12:58where they can't just ram it down our

3:12:59throats

3:13:01>> the and there could be several different

3:13:04you know public input processes for

3:13:06something like this if it requires a

3:13:08reasonzoning for the property you know

3:13:10that's that's a legislative public

3:13:12hearing not well it's a legislative

3:13:14hearing where the public can speak at

3:13:17that hearing so both at the planning

3:13:19board level and here then the uh special

3:13:22use uh application and that hearing

3:13:24would have to take place after that. And

3:13:27again, the they that that would be sworn

3:13:30testimony for people withstanding to be

3:13:32able to put data on and and those

3:13:36specifically impacted will get to speak

3:13:38as well.

3:13:39>> And text amendments can always be

3:13:41modified. Like we were saying, when new

3:13:42technologies emerge, we get new

3:13:43information, we can revisit it.

3:13:46>> If we feel like we've missed

3:13:48>> certain regulation or a standard,

3:13:50>> we can revisit it. That's right. You

3:13:52going to miss something, right?

3:13:53>> Yeah.

3:13:54>> Yes.

3:13:54>> I can promise you out of all this stuff

3:13:56I've read, somebody's missed something

3:13:57that they hadn't covered yet. You know,

3:13:59>> I mean,

3:14:00>> people come up with ideas all the time

3:14:01that we we don't have a specific use

3:14:03for,

3:14:04>> but I think I we're supposed to be able

3:14:06to go look at some here in a couple

3:14:09weeks hopefully. I think y'all got the

3:14:11email. I just had Google email me back

3:14:13or text me back while ago. So Google's

3:14:16got a plan I think or a data center

3:14:18they'd um like to show us as well. So

3:14:22>> that in Lenor.

3:14:23>> Yeah,

3:14:23>> Lenor.

3:14:24>> Is that one in Kernville?

3:14:26>> No, I don't know yet.

3:14:28>> A lot of travel. I was thinking that

3:14:30>> I think two of them's in Cardwell County

3:14:32Facebook Microsoft's got

3:14:35>> Yes.

3:14:36>> is building one there.

3:14:37>> And there's another one up in

3:14:38>> Lenor.

3:14:39>> And then we're looking at going to

3:14:41Forest City to do a Facebook tour there.

3:14:44So

3:14:44>> Okay. Uh, from my understanding,

3:14:46hopefully Facebook will let us go inside

3:14:48and kind of look at theirs on the

3:14:49inside, but I'm not so sure

3:14:52anybody else wants us on the inside of

3:14:54theirs. It's just,

3:14:56>> you know, and I understand that, too.

3:14:57So,

3:14:57>> being on the outside,

3:14:59>> it's good enough. I mean, we're going to

3:15:00hear the noise and ask about the water

3:15:02and

3:15:03>> Yes.

3:15:03>> look at it, see it, smell it, hear it,

3:15:05you know, the whole nine yards. So,

3:15:09>> thank you. Thank you for listening to

3:15:11us, asking you to, you know, guide us if

3:15:15you will

3:15:16>> and and and please reach out should

3:15:17anyone have any questions and if you

3:15:19want to forward any any information, uh

3:15:22I take a framework that I've heard this

3:15:24morning and kind of use that as

3:15:26something to build off of. I will have a

3:15:28a text amendment application on the

3:15:30consent agenda for September 14th and

3:15:33we'll start the process officially then.

3:15:35>> Okay.

3:15:36>> Thank you folks.

3:15:37>> Thank you. Thank you. mostly going to

3:15:38close session are short. One other one

3:15:41other quick thing I want to say I did

3:15:43read this out aloud and too

3:15:45>> um

3:15:46>> and again I'm not advocating one way or

3:15:48the other. I'm just saying data centers

3:15:52tax the infrastructure of your local

3:15:54infrastructure at less than a half a

3:15:56cent uh per dollar and a and a regular

3:16:01business taxes your infrastructure at 25

3:16:03cent on the dollar. Yeah, that's it's

3:16:06not very taxing on the infrastructures.

3:16:09>> Well, one of the other things again so

3:16:11we are open to information about Louden

3:16:13is I know they had they've been able to

3:16:14come down on their tax rate

3:16:17>> over the past decade. Um it's still

3:16:19higher than ours, but I mean again it's

3:16:21it's the pros and cons

3:16:22>> and and that that gentleman that called

3:16:24me this morning at 6:15 did say that

3:16:26said take some of that money and use it

3:16:28to lower our tax rate, you know. Um, so

3:16:32but again, Cardwell County and y'all

3:16:34learned that too. They told me they went

3:16:35down about 3 or 4 cent on their tax

3:16:38rate, but they gave like 80% back as

3:16:41incentives. And like I say, I don't want

3:16:43to give anything back in incentives. And

3:16:45and they did tell me this and give

3:16:47Microsoft their credit. Microsoft had

3:16:49the same deal as the 30-year tax credit.

3:16:52And Microsoft come back to them and

3:16:54said, "We don't want this tax incentive

3:16:57anymore, so just tear up the contract."

3:16:59And Yep. So I I think they know now the

3:17:03incentives are not popular and and

3:17:06they're willing to do it whatever but we

3:17:07pay for it in the end anyhow if you on

3:17:09Micro Soft products they passing the

3:17:13cost on to us. So okay thank you. You

3:17:15got a motion for question.

3:17:16>> I have a motion. I need a second.

3:17:17>> Second.

3:17:18>> All in favor say I.

3:17:19>> I.

3:17:20>> And if you want to if you need

3:17:44Heat. Heat.

3:18:47>> [music]

3:18:57[music]

3:20:56>> Heat. Heat.

3:21:16Heat.

3:21:22Heat.

3:22:32Heat. Heat.

3:24:08Heat. Heat.

3:24:38Heat.

3:24:56Heat.

3:25:44Heat. Heat.

3:26:10>> [music]

3:27:24>> Heat. Heat.

3:29:34Heat. Heat.

3:30:32Heat. Heat.

3:32:50Heat.

3:32:53Heat.

3:35:20Heat. Heat.

3:37:24Heat. Heat.

3:38:32Heat. Heat.

3:38:38Heat.

3:38:58Heat.

3:39:03Heat. Heat.

3:41:31Heat. Heat.

3:41:40Heat. Heat.

3:44:17Heat. Heat.

3:45:09Heat. Heat.

3:45:58Heat. Heat.

3:47:29Heat. Heat.

3:49:05Heat. Heat.

3:49:54Heat. Heat.

3:51:38Heat. Heat.

3:52:13>> [music]

3:53:53>> Heat. Heat.

3:54:26Heat.

3:54:42Heat.

3:55:29Heat. Heat.

3:55:46Heat.

3:55:59Heat.

3:56:26Heat. Heat.

3:56:44Heat. Heat.

4:01:14Heat.

4:01:17Heat.

4:01:23Heat.

4:01:41Heat.

4:03:30Heat. Heat.

4:06:02Heat. Heat.

4:07:42Heat. Heat.

4:09:18Heat. Heat.

4:10:06Heat. Heat.

4:11:08Heat. Heat.

4:11:37Green.

4:11:43Heat. Heat.

4:14:24Heat.

4:14:41Heat.

4:16:40Heat. Heat.

4:17:00Heat. Heat.

4:18:35Heat. Heat.

4:21:23Heat. Heat.

4:22:57to uh return

4:22:58>> motion.

4:23:00>> I have a have a motion, a second. All in

4:23:01favor say I.

4:23:02>> I.

4:23:03>> Okay.

4:23:04>> Mr. Johns, will you provide us with a

4:23:06report?

4:23:07>> Yes. The um board went into close

4:23:10session to when discussed one personnel

4:23:13matter. No, no, uh, no board action was

4:23:15required in that. And then um we also

4:23:18had a um attorney client matter um

4:23:22discuss

4:23:24a issue with a contract um or

4:23:27performance under a contract. Um staff

4:23:30are given instructions on that and uh

4:23:32that's it.

4:23:33>> Thank you. Thank you. Motion to adjurnn.

4:23:35Motion second. So

4:23:37>> I have a motion second. All in favor say

4:23:39I. Okay.