2026-10-01 - Board of Commissioners Info Meeting

0:00:18Heat. Heat.

0:05:00Heat. Heat.

0:05:35Heat. Heat.

0:06:54Heat. Heat.

0:08:47Heat. Heat.

0:09:48Heat. Heat.

0:11:34>> [music]

0:12:03>> Heat. Heat.

0:14:57Good morning.

0:15:02I'd like to call the October the 1st

0:15:05Davidson County Board of Commissioner

0:15:07meeting to order. Welcome guests and

0:15:10staff especially. Um I'm going to call

0:15:14on Commissioner Shook to do our

0:15:17invitation and pledge of allegiance.

0:15:19>> All right, let us pray. Our heavenly

0:15:22father, we just want to thank you for

0:15:23this day. Thank you for this time that

0:15:26we are here to conduct uh business of

0:15:29Davidson County. We just pray for

0:15:31discernment. We pray for your leadership

0:15:34and your guidance as we go through the

0:15:37county business. And then amongst all

0:15:40the folks that are here, I'm sure they

0:15:42somebody here that has special need or

0:15:46some of their family members do. We just

0:15:48pray that you will touch them and give

0:15:50them a uh a blessing today. And now we

0:15:54pray all this in Jesus name. Amen.

0:15:57>> Amen.

0:15:57>> Now we can stand please.

0:16:01>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

0:16:04United States of America and to the

0:16:08republic for which it stands, one nation

0:16:11under God, indivisible, with liberty and

0:16:15justice for all.

0:16:21Thank you, sir. Commissioner Nur Shale,

0:16:24would you recognize veterans for us?

0:16:26>> Thank you, madam. Uh, do we have any

0:16:28veterans? If in the audience, if you

0:16:30would please stand so we can recognize

0:16:32you.

0:16:35[applause]

0:16:39If you have not received the the uh

0:16:42Davidson County Veterans Pin, if you'll

0:16:44come up and allow us to present one to

0:16:46you.

0:16:50>> Come on. [laughter]

0:16:52>> It's free.

0:16:56>> Didn't know you were going to get a

0:16:58prize.

0:16:59[laughter]

0:17:01>> Thank you, sir, for your service.

0:17:03>> Thank you for your service. Thank you

0:17:06for your good and great service. And

0:17:09thank you for your service.

0:17:11>> Thank you for your service,

0:17:12>> sir.

0:17:13>> Thank you for your service, sir.

0:17:15>> Thank you, sir. Appreciate your service.

0:17:17>> Thank you for your service.

0:17:21>> Debbie, we're going to need some more

0:17:23pins.

0:17:23>> Okay. Thank you. I will put put it in.

0:17:27>> Commissioners, um, do I have a motion to

0:17:29excuse Commissioner Elliott this

0:17:31morning?

0:17:32>> Motion to excuse Commissioner Elliot.

0:17:35>> Do I have a second?

0:17:36>> Second. All in favor say I. I.

0:17:39>> Thank you very much.

0:17:41>> If you have if you would like to speak

0:17:43at public address, you can come and

0:17:45appear and register if you're interested

0:17:47in speaking a little later.

0:17:51For the agenda today, Mr. Mayus has

0:17:53requested that a close session for

0:17:55economic development be added to the

0:17:57agenda and Mr. Jones has added asked

0:18:00that a close session for attorney client

0:18:03be added to the agenda. Any other

0:18:05changes to it?

0:18:06>> No, ma'am.

0:18:07>> Okay. Hearing none. May I have a motion

0:18:09and a second to adopt the adopt the

0:18:11amended agenda? I have a motion. Do I

0:18:14have a second? Got a second. All in

0:18:16favor say I.

0:18:17>> I.

0:18:17>> Thank you.

0:18:19>> Is there anyone registered to speak for

0:18:21public address? Mr. Mayus.

0:18:25Looks like you might have a few.

0:18:29Thank you.

0:18:31Okay. We have Dana Lumis.

0:18:38This is a continuation from Monday,

0:18:40guys. I forgot to give you these numbers

0:18:42and I want to read something out to you.

0:18:43These are the updated number from the

0:18:45chief quarters office in Raleigh, North

0:18:47Carolina pertaining to all chemical drug

0:18:51overdoses and fit deaths in the county

0:18:53of Davidson, North Carolina. Davidson

0:18:55County, Lexington, Thomasville,

0:18:57Churchland, Arcadia, all over this

0:18:59county. Right now we're at 506 people

0:19:02confirmed dead from finno in this

0:19:04county. That's uncalled for. We need to

0:19:07work on this better. Mental health, we

0:19:09don't have any mental health. We need to

0:19:10work on this with Billy West from

0:19:12Daymark, RHA. Uh we can Monarch, we have

0:19:15the people here to work, but we need to

0:19:17figure how to get these people in front

0:19:18of these counselors. We have 751

0:19:21confirmed total deaths from drugs in

0:19:24this county. I got to compliment Richie

0:19:27Simmons and his crew for getting the

0:19:28drug dealers off the streets. Thank you,

0:19:30Sheriff's Department. Right now, we're

0:19:33at 20,758

0:19:35statewide. We rank fourth in the

0:19:38country, the state of North Carolina.

0:19:40That's poorer. We can blame it on

0:19:44Mexico, Canada, etc. But as a community,

0:19:48Davidson County, that's way too high.

0:19:51Now, we uh before you all and the 70US,

0:19:55well, Elliot's not here. Um, you got an

0:19:58opioid settlement task force that this

0:20:01money is still sitting here. We're

0:20:02working on it. It's coming a long way.

0:20:04It's come a long way in four years. I'll

0:20:07give them that. The money has to get on

0:20:09the streets. And I know there's

0:20:10commissioners on this board that agree

0:20:12with that. One said, "People are dying."

0:20:15Thank you, Trip, for bringing that up.

0:20:17Matt Meiselle, Todd Yates, I I know

0:20:20their opinions. Could I talk to them?

0:20:22Um, Steve, you know where I'm at. We had

0:20:24a little talk in the hallway. We all

0:20:26have a common goal here to save lives. I

0:20:29will not back down and I will not go any

0:20:31further than this but to call people out

0:20:33on what we need to do to save these

0:20:35kids. It's just not kids. I'm D. I'm

0:20:38dealing with a one-year-old baby. How

0:20:40can we how can we even sit here and

0:20:42fathom how a one-year-old baby can die

0:20:44from Pitno? Can you Can you sit here and

0:20:47understand what Pitno is destroying

0:20:49human lives? Not only in this county,

0:20:51but all 99 other counties. We have a

0:20:54governor, a Democrat governor who ran on

0:20:56fentanel. He sat here three weeks ago

0:20:59and said, "We're going to pull out a

0:21:00mental health program." I haven't seen

0:21:02it yet. I haven't seen one iota of this

0:21:05Democrat governor, and I'm going to say

0:21:07it, doing a damn thing that he ran on.

0:21:10And I'm sick and I'm tired. My son in

0:21:132021 was murdered by Pentel. Okay, this

0:21:16is why we do. People can agree on the

0:21:19right or the left and don't agree with

0:21:21me, but I want to thank you for your

0:21:22consideration. These numbers I'm going

0:21:24to leave with you right now. Please read

0:21:26them and again read part A and part B of

0:21:28the Opio Settlement Task Force rules and

0:21:30regulations set forth by the federal

0:21:32government, not by the Opio Settlement

0:21:34Fund Task Force. Here it was set forth

0:21:36by the federal government how to use

0:21:39that money. Thank you.

0:21:41>> Thank you, sir. Thank you.

0:21:43>> Thank you. And if anybody needs an

0:21:45action, thank you.

0:21:46>> Thank you, Jim.

0:21:48[clears throat]

0:21:48Thank you,

0:21:49>> Jackie Taylor.

0:21:52>> Good morning. I'm Jackie Taylor. I'm 71

0:21:55years old and a resident of Davidson

0:21:57County.

0:22:00For a long time, I've been talking about

0:22:02senior services. And I think that as

0:22:05long as senior services has been a

0:22:07government agency, that maybe when

0:22:10budgets come, y'all should start

0:22:11thinking about letting it go. Let it be

0:22:15a nonprofit. That way the director can

0:22:18run it any old way she wants to and she

0:22:20doesn't have to make up any kind of

0:22:22stories to get rid of people she doesn't

0:22:24like. You know, if she was an elected

0:22:26official like Richie Simmons or um

0:22:30Sandy or you know somebody like down at

0:22:34the um Department of um register of

0:22:37deeds,

0:22:38they can fire and hire as they want and

0:22:41they don't have to make up any reason

0:22:42why.

0:22:44So, if everyone wants to let her run it

0:22:46the way she wants to run it, it should

0:22:48no longer be a government agency.

0:22:51Let her run it because it's got valuable

0:22:53services as a nonprofit.

0:22:56I'm upset because that took away my

0:22:59option to attend classes. Now, there's

0:23:02plenty of it that I have no interest in,

0:23:04but I'm really annoyed at the fact that

0:23:06the government comes around and says,

0:23:07"Well, we're going to just take it away

0:23:09because teacher wants you to not have

0:23:10it." So, moving on on another topic. At

0:23:15the last meeting, this is a teachable

0:23:18moment. Now, I'm not trying to point

0:23:20fingers or be nasty or anything like

0:23:22that. I'm saying this in good faith.

0:23:24It's a teachable moment. We had a

0:23:26commissioner who lost his school. They

0:23:28told somebody in the audience to shut

0:23:31up. Called her Missy. Her name is not

0:23:33Missy. It's not Melissa. Her name is no

0:23:36form of Missy. Missy is what you say cuz

0:23:38I'm a parent. When kids acting up, I

0:23:40named him. I know what his name is, but

0:23:42I call him mister cuz I'm angry. And

0:23:44that's what Missy was. It was a name

0:23:47used in anger.

0:23:50Regardless of what this person did, the

0:23:52commissioner is a higher authority. So,

0:23:56it's held to a higher standard. The

0:23:59commissioner owes this person an apology

0:24:00for the way he spoke to her. Now, after

0:24:03I spoke my public address, I left, but I

0:24:06watched it, you know, on my little

0:24:08phone. So, I could only see it from the

0:24:10perspective and, you know, from my

0:24:12phone. I don't know what actually

0:24:14happened here in this room, but you

0:24:16know, you folks are commissioners.

0:24:20That behavior needs to be improved. When

0:24:22I talk about the bullying and senior

0:24:24services, no wonder you don't understand

0:24:27what I'm talking about because you do it

0:24:28yourself. And that's exactly what I

0:24:31mean. And when the commissioner that did

0:24:33that also voted to permanently terminate

0:24:35me, well, I hope now that this

0:24:37commissioner understands what he did is

0:24:40a form of bullying just like the same

0:24:42stuff I've been reporting. Thank you for

0:24:44giving me my three minutes. And Trip,

0:24:47thank you for redirecting it all and

0:24:50getting it all back in place. And I'm

0:24:52also glad that we have law enforcement

0:24:54up front because we have them in the

0:24:56back. They can see what's happening

0:24:58here.

0:24:59law enforcement up there and you can see

0:25:01what's going on out here and we need

0:25:03that. So, I'm looking forward to

0:25:04>> Madam Chair,

0:25:06>> as a matter of record, I did apologize

0:25:09to her in open meeting after I did that.

0:25:12So, you just I I guess conveniently

0:25:17didn't want to point that out, but I did

0:25:19apologize to her.

0:25:24>> Byebye. Thank you.

0:25:26All right, let's move on to

0:25:28deliberation. Today we have a

0:25:30presentation to begin with from the ABC

0:25:33board. Miss Beck Clement and Miss Peody

0:25:36will lead this off.

0:25:39>> Good morning.

0:25:40>> Morning.

0:25:49Tim,

0:25:50>> good morning. We're here on behalf of

0:25:52the Davidson County ABC board to present

0:25:54you with your quarterly distribution of

0:25:56$50,000 this morning and to give you a

0:26:00quick update on our last fiscal year

0:26:02end. I have with me, as you said, Miss

0:26:04Sher Pott, who is a board member, and

0:26:06Miss Lily Harrison, who is our general

0:26:09manager at the store. You all

0:26:11distributed a copy of our annual report

0:26:14performed by Turlington and Company here

0:26:15in Lexington. And I just wanted to hit a

0:26:18few highlights and give you a couple

0:26:20updates. As you know, we opened the

0:26:22store in August of 2019 after a 2 to1

0:26:26vote for selling alcohol in Davidson

0:26:28County. The first year we projected

0:26:30sales of $1.3 million and had sales of

0:26:342.8 that year.

0:26:37Second year was $5 million and it's just

0:26:40grown from there. This past year, as you

0:26:43can see, our sales was $6,7,086.

0:26:50[clears throat] The allocations that we

0:26:51are required to allocate to different

0:26:53entities this year, 38,928

0:26:59went to alcohol education rehab, which

0:27:02is basically the Davidson County schools

0:27:04for their um substance abuse and

0:27:07[clears throat] they use it as they deem

0:27:09two $27,86

0:27:12to our law enforcement contract with the

0:27:14AL that is based on a contract amount

0:27:17and not based on sales which the other

0:27:20allocations are

0:27:22um $250,000

0:27:24was distributed to Davidson County

0:27:26itself for our quarterly distributions.

0:27:30Altogether since inception we have had

0:27:33total sales of $40,53700

0:27:39or $783.

0:27:41We have distributed $329,000

0:27:45to the schools through their alcohol

0:27:47education rehab,

0:27:49$235,000

0:27:51to law enforcement,

0:27:53and 1,537,000

0:27:57to you guys to the county.

0:28:01Little staffing update. We currently

0:28:03have 16 employees, four of which are

0:28:06full-time, 12 of the other ones are

0:28:08part-time, and we roll with an annual

0:28:10payroll of over $370,000.

0:28:14Currently, we are looking to add two

0:28:17more locations, and we continue to

0:28:19diligently search for property to build

0:28:22our own buildings as we currently are

0:28:24tenants tenants in the location that we

0:28:27are in Arcadia. The um the first area we

0:28:30were looking at is in the northern part

0:28:32of the county, specifically the Wahberg

0:28:34area. We had a property allocated and

0:28:38then DOT wanted a astronomical amount of

0:28:41money for a turn lane and it just the

0:28:44numbers just did not work for us. The

0:28:46second location that we're looking at to

0:28:49do a second a third store would be the

0:28:51Denton area.

0:28:54>> That's all I have.

0:28:56>> Does anyone have any questions of

0:28:58our ladies today.

0:29:01We we thank you for your donation and

0:29:04and [laughter]

0:29:05we do we do and we also uh you know look

0:29:09forward to hearing what happens in the

0:29:12future for these two areas. Thank you so

0:29:15much for the work you do.

0:29:16>> Thank you,

0:29:17>> Madam Chair. Just please extend our

0:29:21>> condolences to Kenny Merid. Oh, yes.

0:29:24chair's not here.

0:29:25>> And a prayer that he quickly recovers

0:29:27from a day.

0:29:28>> She had a fight with a ladder.

0:29:29[laughter]

0:29:30>> Yes.

0:29:32>> Thank you all.

0:29:34>> All right, let's go to item number B

0:29:38today. Mr. Rickard and Commissioner

0:29:40Meiselle will lead this off. Madam

0:29:43Chair, uh due to the reasonzoning

0:29:46request that was received a few weeks

0:29:48ago by planning and zoning and some

0:29:49other issues with economic development,

0:29:51we thought it'd be a good time to um

0:29:54bring um the energy folks in to discuss

0:29:56and explain why they need this

0:29:58reszoning, what they plan to do with the

0:30:00property, the a bigger overview of

0:30:04energy needs in general for the region

0:30:07and uh put things into perspective for

0:30:09you and allow you to ask questions. So,

0:30:11I think Mr. Joe

0:30:14>> Joe Krevis

0:30:15>> Joe's going to lead you

0:30:16>> off. He's with Duke Energy and uh he'll

0:30:20he'll get you started. And they've got I

0:30:23think three speakers lined up.

0:30:25>> Excuse me. One second, Joe. Is there a

0:30:27pen down there, Steve? There is.

0:30:29>> Where's the ugliest pen? You need a pen.

0:30:31>> I don't care [laughter] long as long as

0:30:33it writes. I don't care what it looks.

0:30:35This pencil's got a broken lid.

0:30:38>> Thank Thank you, David. And uh thank

0:30:40you, Chair Watford and commissioners.

0:30:42Appreciate you having Duke Energy on the

0:30:45agenda this morning. Uh I am Joe

0:30:48Crabster. I'm the government and

0:30:51community relations person for Davidson

0:30:54County. My actual office is out of our

0:30:57Salsbury Operations Center. Um I do have

0:31:01a couple speakers here this morning. uh

0:31:05one from Duke and uh one from Piedmont.

0:31:10We do want to talk about the power needs

0:31:13of

0:31:14Davidson County and beyond and talk

0:31:17about the proposed Davy Davidson Energy

0:31:21Complex, which is important to Duke

0:31:24Energy with the capacity needs that we

0:31:27see. So, with that, I'm going to go

0:31:29ahead and turn it over to uh Dan

0:31:32Donashad. He is our general manager of

0:31:35generation for Duke Energy and he will

0:31:39talk some about the uh generation needs

0:31:42and then he'll turn it over to Nicole

0:31:44Kaiser with Pedmont Natural Gas. So,

0:31:48thank you.

0:31:51>> All right. Thanks, Joe. Good morning,

0:31:52commissioners.

0:31:53>> Good morning.

0:31:55>> My name is Dan Dashadot. I am the

0:31:57general manager of our generation

0:31:58execution and technologies team at Duke

0:32:00Energy. My team leads the strate

0:32:03strategy development and execution for

0:32:04Duke's coal and gas fleet. Uh we are

0:32:07blessed with serving uh portions of the

0:32:09country that people want to live, work,

0:32:11and play in. With that growth comes

0:32:13increased energy demand. Duke prepares

0:32:15and submits integrated resource plans.

0:32:17I'll call them IRPs. Um every two years

0:32:20in North Carolina, every three years in

0:32:22South Carolina. As you know, we have a

0:32:24joint system. Uh the Carolinas are the

0:32:27IRPS [clears throat] are for a 15-year

0:32:29look ahead.

0:32:31uh from our 2023 plan to our 2025 plan,

0:32:35we've seen tremendous growth. In fact,

0:32:37our uh projected 2035

0:32:40system energy needs increased 7% between

0:32:43the two plans.

0:32:45Um earlier this year, we publicly filed

0:32:47our 2026 IRP in South Carolina. Again,

0:32:50they're different uh frequencies and

0:32:53that showed uh substantial builds across

0:32:55multiple technologies. Um, dispatchable

0:32:57natural gas is important for our

0:32:59portfolio as we have diversified

0:33:01generation sources to serve our

0:33:03customers and resource diversity is

0:33:05critical for customer reliability in all

0:33:07weather conditions.

0:33:09The 2026 IRP showed the need for six

0:33:12combined cycles and eight combustion

0:33:14turbines. I'll call combined cycles CC's

0:33:16and combustion turbine CTS. um but uh

0:33:20showed the need for 8 cc's and uh six

0:33:23sorry six cc's and 8 cts by 2034. Um and

0:33:28then while larger and and and slightly

0:33:30more efficient, our proposed uh combined

0:33:32cycles have generally the same

0:33:34configuration as the buck CC if you're

0:33:37familiar with that station. Um these

0:33:39proposed CTS and CC's are being built to

0:33:42serve all customers in our region and

0:33:45our broader Carolina system. So, just

0:33:48allow me to provide a quick update on

0:33:49the the gas projects. Um, so

0:33:51[clears throat] combined cycles one

0:33:53through three are either under

0:33:54construction or getting ready to uh CC's

0:33:57one and two are up in Person County at

0:33:58Roxboro. CC3 is in Anderson, South

0:34:01Carolina. Um, one those first two in

0:34:04Roxboro under construction. CC3 in South

0:34:07Carolina just got approved by it's been

0:34:10approved by South Carolina just got

0:34:11approved last week by North Carolina.

0:34:13So, we're getting ready to start on that

0:34:15one. But CC's four and five are the ones

0:34:18we desire to build at DavyDavidson

0:34:20energy complex. And the need for these

0:34:22combined cycles has been in the IRP all

0:34:24the way back to that 2023 plan I talked

0:34:26about.

0:34:28Uh the selected sites are well

0:34:30positioned for timely cost-effective

0:34:32development because they were acquired

0:34:34decades ago for future energy in

0:34:36infrastructure and can connect to

0:34:38existing nearby gas gas infrastructure.

0:34:43Um, just some of the features. These

0:34:44dispatchable natural gas advanced class

0:34:47combined cycles. They'll be highly

0:34:49efficient uh and reliable and extremely

0:34:51flexible in their ability to ramp up and

0:34:54down their output to match the the

0:34:56system needs. They are an important part

0:34:58of the IRP execution plan and will help

0:35:00Duke Energy reliable reliably meet the

0:35:03needs of our customers.

0:35:06Uh, a little on size at uh 1365

0:35:10megawatts each. The proposed plants

0:35:12would help uh provide enough dependable

0:35:14electricity to power more than 2 million

0:35:16homes, helping ensure that the region

0:35:19has the capacity needed for homes,

0:35:20businesses, and industry. Uh we also

0:35:24look at reserve margin. So the

0:35:26commission has directed us to increase

0:35:28our planning reserve margin from 17% to

0:35:3122% by 2031. uh these new dispatchable

0:35:36and highly efficient assets will help

0:35:38maintain system reliability and also

0:35:40that 22% reserve margin that we need to

0:35:42maintain.

0:35:44So uh back in uh last year we had

0:35:47submitted the 2025 uh CPIP plan and we

0:35:52are await we had that hearing in June uh

0:35:55in Raleigh and we're awaiting the

0:35:57commission's order on on that on that

0:35:59plan and that should address their

0:36:01position on the need for these CC4 and

0:36:04five assets and that order is expected

0:36:07before a year end. We may may get it

0:36:08this month even.

0:36:11Uh timing wise, we plan to file our pre

0:36:13CPCN uh in in Q4, which we're now in Q4.

0:36:18And our CPCN application is is 120 days

0:36:21in between the pre and the actual

0:36:22filing. So we will file that in uh in

0:36:25Q1. Our CPCN application in Q1 with the

0:36:28utilities commission. Um and these

0:36:30applications will clearly reinforce the

0:36:32need for the assets.

0:36:34So with that, unless you have any

0:36:36questions, I'd like to pass this off to

0:36:38Nicole Kaiser of PM Natural Gas.

0:36:40>> Thank you.

0:36:41>> So Nicole, hold just a second. Anyone

0:36:43have any questions at this point?

0:36:46>> I've got a question. I'm not sure you

0:36:47can answer it. How much energy do y'all

0:36:50purchase from the solar farms around?

0:36:54>> Uh, no. Yeah, I don't have that the

0:36:56answer to that, but I I can I can find

0:36:57that out and get back with you. But I'd

0:36:59like I'd like to know that because you

0:37:01know we've approved

0:37:03>> a lot of acreage for solar farms and saw

0:37:05no productivity from has not saw our

0:37:08rates come down.

0:37:10>> So I don't know what effect it's

0:37:12actually having on on your customers.

0:37:14>> Right.

0:37:14>> If they're not using it and they just

0:37:17got wasted land out there so they can

0:37:19apply for federal grants. That's that

0:37:21that doesn't serve citizen county very

0:37:23well at all. [snorts] So, you know, we

0:37:26we we uh operate some of our own solar

0:37:29and then also are are the PPAs that we

0:37:31purchase the power. So, you're

0:37:32interested in the purchase power amount.

0:37:34>> Yeah. Yeah. Just see how it's helping if

0:37:36it's helping, you know, the citizens

0:37:38here at all

0:37:39>> and how many is even in operation, you

0:37:42know, because the land is still sitting

0:37:43at vacant after years.

0:37:45>> And you're specifically in in Davidson

0:37:47County.

0:37:48>> Yes, sir.

0:37:48>> Okay.

0:37:48>> Yes, sir. Gladiator. I'd love to know

0:37:51that.

0:37:52>> Okay.

0:37:52>> Anyone else have anything at this time?

0:37:54I guess are we is one of the concerns

0:37:57just kind of some of the blackouts that

0:37:59we've heard about and we've seen in the

0:38:01area

0:38:02>> just given the influx of folks coming

0:38:04into this state I mean I think we're one

0:38:05of the top five fastest growing states

0:38:07in the country

0:38:09>> is is that where some of this is coming

0:38:11from of like now's the time to develop

0:38:13this to avoid that kind of stress on the

0:38:16grid?

0:38:17>> Yeah, I mean you know again we're

0:38:19blessed with growing territories. People

0:38:21want to live here, right? we all want to

0:38:22live here and so um you know having a

0:38:25reliable system right these are going to

0:38:27be very reliable dispatchable assets you

0:38:31know uh regardless of the weather we're

0:38:34you know we can we can we can turn the

0:38:36these assets on and we actually have the

0:38:38ability to kind of overfire we can get

0:38:40get more than the than than the standard

0:38:43megawws on it so they they'll be very

0:38:45good for system reliability which is

0:38:47what we need to to do

0:38:49>> we had a major one in Thomasville

0:38:51not not too long ago. Um it was back

0:38:54home fairly quickly, you know, but um

0:38:58that's what uh we hear is concern and

0:39:02from what you just said, it looks like

0:39:05you have a continual plan for, you know,

0:39:08it's not like this was talked about

0:39:10yesterday. That's right. It was planned

0:39:13>> two, three, four years, 10 years. You're

0:39:16looking at a a plan for growth. I

0:39:19appreciate that.

0:39:19>> Great. Thank you.

0:39:20>> I I got a question or two. Uh increased

0:39:23manufacturing would that uh have u

0:39:28increased the need for additional power?

0:39:30>> Yes sir. I mean you know so the demand

0:39:33is you know residential, commercial,

0:39:34industrial uh you know all of it rolled

0:39:37together wholesale as well.

0:39:39>> I got it. But you know we we campaigned

0:39:41to bring a lot of manufacturing back to

0:39:43the United States uh several years ago

0:39:46and that's happening. So, I didn't know

0:39:48if that had a pretty decent effect on

0:39:51our existing infrastructure. Um, also I

0:39:54guess um one of my other questions is

0:39:58reserve. Um,

0:40:01you said we required now to have 17%

0:40:03reserve,

0:40:04>> right? Yeah. Our current reserve margin

0:40:05is is 17 and uh you know when we looked

0:40:09at uh other period utilities, we we were

0:40:13on the low end of of that. And so,

0:40:15>> so how much do we have in reserve now?

0:40:17Are we able to to meet that 17?

0:40:20>> Yeah, we we we we have we have we're at

0:40:2217.

0:40:23>> And that's set by the utility commission

0:40:24in North Carolina.

0:40:25>> It is.

0:40:26>> Okay.

0:40:28>> All right. Good deal. One other question

0:40:29and I'll let you go for now. Uh two

0:40:32combustion chambers, right? So, is that

0:40:34>> two two combined cycles?

0:40:36>> You need to explain that to me.

0:40:38>> Okay. Thank you and I appreciate that.

0:40:40So, we think about uh combustion

0:40:42turbines, right? So we have um so at

0:40:46Marshall we're building just two

0:40:47combustion turbines

0:40:49Davidson let me just talk about one of

0:40:51the plants right it's two it's called a

0:40:54twoon one so two combustion turbines

0:40:57with two heat recovery steam generators

0:40:59that take the waste the high high

0:41:01temperature waste heat and run it

0:41:03through some tubes make steam take that

0:41:06steam through a steam turbine a single

0:41:08steam turbine so two CTs feeding one

0:41:11steam turbine so that's a that's a two

0:41:12on two on one as we're doing two sets of

0:41:16those

0:41:17>> those. Okay.

0:41:17>> Right. I know it's it's Yeah,

0:41:19>> that's interesting. So that's I need to

0:41:21know how it works. Okay.

0:41:23>> Yes, sir.

0:41:24>> All right, that's good for now.

0:41:26>> Okay. [clears throat] Thank you, Nicole.

0:41:28>> Nicole,

0:41:33>> thank you, Nicole.

0:41:35>> Good morning. Thank you, commissioners,

0:41:37for the opportunity to be able to

0:41:39address you today. As stated, I am

0:41:42Nicole Kaiser. So, I am the director of

0:41:45the project management office and

0:41:47stakeholder engagement for Piedmont

0:41:49Natural Gas. And so, I'm going to talk

0:41:51to you about the proposed liqufied

0:41:54natural gas facilities. So, these

0:41:56facilities would directly serve what Dan

0:41:59was talking about. So, those two

0:42:01combined cycle natural gas plants that

0:42:04DEEC is proposing to build inside of

0:42:06Davyy County. So, today um really to

0:42:09kind of lay out what I want to talk to

0:42:11you about. So I want to talk to you

0:42:13about number one, what is LG?

0:42:16Number two, how do we utilize LG on our

0:42:20system? Why is the 1600 acre property

0:42:24that is in Davidson, why is that really

0:42:28the ideal place to put this facility?

0:42:31how we propose to connect our facility

0:42:34to the two CCC's in Davyy County, some

0:42:38stakeholder engagement activities that

0:42:40we've done so far with the citizens of

0:42:42Davidson County, and then to kind of

0:42:45wrap it up about how this project could

0:42:47benefit Davidson County as a whole. So,

0:42:50first, what is liqufied natural gas? So,

0:42:52we call it LNG. So, simply that is

0:42:56natural gas in a liquid form. So, we

0:43:00convert natural gas to LG by cooling it

0:43:03to approximately -260°

0:43:07F. So, that's where it goes from gas to

0:43:10a liquid at an atmospheric pressure. The

0:43:12easiest way that I describe this is so

0:43:14we all boil water on our stove. So, it's

0:43:16water and then it goes into a gas. So,

0:43:18we are basically doing the opposite. So,

0:43:20we're taking gas and we are cooling it

0:43:23back down to a liquid. What this does is

0:43:26it reduces the volume of the natural gas

0:43:29by a factor of more than 600 times as it

0:43:32goes from gas to a liquid. So the

0:43:35primary advantage here is it allows us

0:43:37to use significantly less space to store

0:43:42the gas. So if you were to try to think

0:43:45of that um some kind of way visually, I

0:43:48like to say we take a beach ball and we

0:43:50really compress it into the size of a

0:43:52pingpong ball. So that's really how much

0:43:55more we can store. So now let's talk

0:43:58about how we utilize it on our system.

0:44:00So Pedmont Natural Gas has been

0:44:02utilizing LNG on our system since the

0:44:051970s. We currently have three

0:44:08facilities that are strategically

0:44:09located throughout North Carolina. So we

0:44:12have one in Huntersville, North

0:44:14Carolina, one in Robinson, North

0:44:16Carolina, and one in Bentonville. So,

0:44:19kind of strategically located throughout

0:44:21the system that allows us to basically

0:44:24dispatch

0:44:27gas into our system as it's needed. Um,

0:44:30really giving us the ability when our

0:44:33customers need us most to be able to

0:44:37utilize gas that we have stored and put

0:44:40it on the system. Now, let's talk about

0:44:41why this is really important. So, we

0:44:44have the opportunity to buy and store

0:44:48gas during what I'm going to call the

0:44:50shoulder months. So, when demand is low,

0:44:54gas prices are just like anything else.

0:44:56So, it really is a supply and demand

0:44:59from a cost perspective. So, when the

0:45:02demand is low, you have the ability to

0:45:05buy gas cheaper when you really need

0:45:09natural gas on your system. So when

0:45:11demand is really high, cost is really

0:45:13high. So the thing about this storage

0:45:16facility is that gas fuel is a pass

0:45:20through cost. So the end customer pays

0:45:23what we pay for it. So you want us to

0:45:26buy it at the lowest cheapest possible

0:45:30cost that we can. And that's really what

0:45:33we have the ability to do for DEEC and

0:45:36then really the customers throughout the

0:45:38whole entire region is that you get the

0:45:40pass through cost of where we bought and

0:45:42stored it at its lowest possible cost.

0:45:46So with this that really when it's 8

0:45:51degrees single digits

0:45:53days on in hours on in that's when gas

0:45:56prices get really high and that's when

0:45:58we would look to dispatch you know

0:46:01currently throughout our fleet and then

0:46:03to do the same kind of thing um for Duke

0:46:05really allowing energy is a necessity

0:46:08and this allows us to be able to have

0:46:11energy reliably and affordably. So now

0:46:14let's talk about why this parcel is best

0:46:17suited for this project. So there is

0:46:19currently a Williams Transco easement

0:46:22that runs directly through this

0:46:24property.

0:46:26So we need to run a pipeline from that

0:46:29easement to this facility. Because the

0:46:32easement already runs through this 1,600

0:46:35acres, that allows us to put the

0:46:39pipeline basically on our own property

0:46:41to connect it to the facility, which

0:46:44minimizes the impact to other property

0:46:46neighbors. So, we're not running

0:46:48pipeline, you know, really needing

0:46:50easements from other people to connect

0:46:53the supply to this facility. The other

0:46:56thing is this is 1,600 acres. We are

0:46:59looking to construct on less than 20% of

0:47:01the property. It's heavily wooded today,

0:47:04so there's a lot of vegetation. That's

0:47:06going to allow us the ability to leave a

0:47:08pretty significant natural vegetative

0:47:10buffer to really reduce visibility to

0:47:14everybody around the parcel. So, all in

0:47:16all, just it is a prime location.

0:47:19There's enough land here to allow us the

0:47:22ability to construct this facility and

0:47:25still leave a lot of natural vegetation.

0:47:27Now let's talk about connecting it to uh

0:47:30the Davyy side. So in order to connect

0:47:33it uh we would do what we call as a

0:47:36horizontal directional drill. So this is

0:47:38an industry best practice. We've been

0:47:41doing it for decades. So basically we

0:47:44would pull back have some workspace back

0:47:47here on the Davidson side and then we

0:47:50would have so steel basically the

0:47:53pipeline um it doesn't like to bend very

0:47:56sharply. So we would pull back and then

0:47:59we are going to do a very slight angle

0:48:02and we are going to go underneath the

0:48:05riverbed. So we will we have geologists

0:48:08out there. Everybody looks at the river.

0:48:11They determine the best place to go

0:48:13underneath the river and then pop back

0:48:15out. What this allows us to do is there

0:48:18is basically minimal impact to the

0:48:22river. So it doesn't impact the way the

0:48:24river flows. it doesn't impact the

0:48:26ability to use the river. And really,

0:48:29we've done this all over the state.

0:48:31There are hundreds of pipelines

0:48:33underneath uh the rivers. Basically,

0:48:35Pimont Natural Gas has a pipeline under

0:48:37every river except for the French Broad

0:48:39because that's outside of our service

0:48:41territory. Uh we already have some

0:48:43pipelines underneath the Yaken just

0:48:45because our infrastructure is basically

0:48:47like a grid. Think of it just like you

0:48:49would your roads. If you're traveling

0:48:51from here to the coast, you're going to

0:48:53have to cross a bridge to get there. So,

0:48:55we're doing the same thing with our

0:48:56pipelines. We just go underneath the

0:48:58river where you drive um over top of the

0:49:01river. In terms of doing this work, um

0:49:03there's a very rigorous process from a

0:49:05permitting perspective that we go

0:49:07through both, you know, state and

0:49:09federal permits. So, we would get all of

0:49:11our permits and then we continue uh to

0:49:15cross the river that way in a way that

0:49:16we have done hundreds of times.

0:49:20So other things, stakeholder engagement

0:49:22activities, just so you're aware of the

0:49:25conversations we've had in the community

0:49:26thus far. So we did have two open houses

0:49:30uh between the two projects. We invited

0:49:33over 4,000 people to come out and have

0:49:36the opportunity to engage in meaningful

0:49:38conversation with us to answer their

0:49:41questions about the project. also had

0:49:44the opportunity to talk to key local

0:49:46stakeholders, project neighbors inside

0:49:48of the community. Really, anybody who

0:49:52reaches out has the opportunity to

0:49:53engage in conversation with me. Um, I am

0:49:56more than willing bring in uh additional

0:49:59people as needed to answer the questions

0:50:01of the citizens of this county. And then

0:50:04lastly, community benefits. So really

0:50:06what we're looking here is this will be

0:50:09the single largest investment that

0:50:11Pedmont Natural Gas has ever made in one

0:50:13location. This project is worth two plus

0:50:16billion dollars which equates to over

0:50:20four plus million dollars in tax revenue

0:50:23for the citizens of Davidson County.

0:50:26With that, um, we will be looking once

0:50:29operational to have 40 to 55 high-paying

0:50:33jobs

0:50:35and those we're hoping that those would

0:50:37be local. So, these would be new jobs

0:50:38that Pedmont Natural Gas doesn't have

0:50:41today. We work with our community

0:50:43college systems really to build a

0:50:45pipeline of talent for us. So, we have

0:50:49programs at other community colleges

0:50:51where we have facilities. We want to

0:50:53train and use the resources that the

0:50:56county has available to ensure that the

0:50:58people who are manning our facilities

0:51:00are local. And then with that also, you

0:51:03know, there would be an influx of

0:51:06dollars that would come to the county

0:51:08during construction as we would have

0:51:10individuals eating here, buying gas

0:51:12here, lodging here during the

0:51:15construction. But after construction is

0:51:18complete, there are minimal resources

0:51:20that this project needs from the county.

0:51:23LG is not a high consumer of water.

0:51:26Basically, we've got some bathrooms and

0:51:28some showers, basic human needs u for

0:51:32our individuals on site. Once it's

0:51:34operational,

0:51:37you know, minimal traffic because you've

0:51:38got 40 to 55 people who are working

0:51:4112-hour shifts coming in. So, not a

0:51:43large uh increase of traffic on the

0:51:46roadways and not an influx of kids

0:51:48inside of the schools. So, overall, it's

0:51:51a great benefit to the county without

0:51:54asking the county for a lot in return.

0:51:57And with that, I appreciate your time

0:51:59and the ability to introduce this

0:52:01project to you.

0:52:03>> Thank you. Thank you. Have you do we

0:52:06have some questions yet?

0:52:08>> Got a couple. I do want to commend Miss

0:52:11Kaiser. I know we had a couple

0:52:12conversations. I appreciate appreciate

0:52:14you uh answering all my questions

0:52:16because again, it's not an area I'm an

0:52:18expert in. Um thank you. I know in the

0:52:21the last conversation we had, we talked

0:52:23a little bit about um some of the the

0:52:26conservation efforts as you as you work

0:52:29on uh this project because I know a lot

0:52:31of citizens have reached out and they

0:52:32probably raise some of those concerns um

0:52:34during the stakeholder engagement and I

0:52:37think now knowing only about 20% of the

0:52:40land is going to be developed in what's

0:52:43already a very rural area and then

0:52:46you're going to preserve 80%. Now I

0:52:49guess one of my questions is for that

0:52:5180% is the bulk of that contiguous land

0:52:54that will left be kind of left as is in

0:52:56its current state.

0:52:58>> So thank you for the question

0:53:00commissioner. Um so I'm going to

0:53:04without showing. So the parcel looks

0:53:06like this.

0:53:07>> Um and Mill Creek runs right through the

0:53:10bottom of it. So we are looking so we've

0:53:14engaged DOT. It looks like, you know,

0:53:16we'll have an access really there off of

0:53:19Giles Road. So, we'll have an access and

0:53:22basically run some underground pipe and

0:53:24have some smallcale facilities right

0:53:26there at the bottom. So, most of the

0:53:29land that is below Mills Creek, which is

0:53:33really if you think about and you look

0:53:35at where predominantly the residential

0:53:39areas are. So most of that land will be

0:53:44undisturbed. Um so we'll have an

0:53:46easement that runs up through it. So

0:53:48most of that land down there will be

0:53:50undisturbed. And we are looking to place

0:53:53most of the infrastructure above Mills

0:53:56Creek, but as much as we can in the

0:53:59center of the parcel. So once you see

0:54:00the resoning application, you'll see

0:54:02infrastructure is kind of centered in

0:54:04the top portion of it and then there's a

0:54:07buffer um that meets and exceeds the

0:54:12county's requirements up there at the

0:54:13top.

0:54:14>> Okay. So we'll be able to see like a map

0:54:15of like, hey, these are areas that are

0:54:17left untouched in. Okay. Perfect. And I

0:54:20I mean I I was impressed when I heard

0:54:21that. I know we've talked about um

0:54:24subdivisions and developments before and

0:54:26most of them don't preserve that much

0:54:28land and leave it untouched. So that's

0:54:30that's impressive that that would be the

0:54:32case. Um the other question I had was

0:54:35you mentioned a little bit on the the

0:54:36water needs and that would it would be

0:54:38rather minimal.

0:54:40>> Yes. Um, you also mentioned though the

0:54:42cooling aspect and so maybe I missed it

0:54:45or again maybe it's just my own

0:54:46ignorance is so is it some sort of water

0:54:50cooling that's cooling that gas to the

0:54:53liquid and then again maybe speak on

0:54:55like what's needed for that or how much

0:54:56or is it pretty minimal?

0:54:59>> So for that so really what happens is we

0:55:02take natural gas and in order to cool it

0:55:07we clean it. Mhm.

0:55:09>> Um, so we take out all the impurities of

0:55:11the gas. It's really a chemical process

0:55:16that doesn't really utilize water to do

0:55:19that.

0:55:20>> Um,

0:55:22probably at the simplest I can that's

0:55:24helpful. You you probably told me that

0:55:25on one of the calls. I didn't have all

0:55:26my notes in front of me. Um,

0:55:29I think let me just make sure before I

0:55:32pass it off to anyone else. I don't have

0:55:34any other questions. I think I'm good

0:55:36for right now, but I appreciate and I

0:55:38appreciate you holding those uh

0:55:39stakeholder engagements for folks.

0:55:41>> Thank you, Commissioner. Okay,

0:55:43>> quick question. Go ahead.

0:55:45>> If I understood your the process

0:55:47properly, you're comparing a 5gallon

0:55:49bucket of water to a 5gallon bucket of

0:55:51snow.

0:55:54>> Pretty much, sir.

0:55:55>> Okay.

0:55:58Okay. Uh right now a lot of the land out

0:56:02there is being used for farmland.

0:56:06I think it's being some of it's being

0:56:08leased. Is that correct? For farmland.

0:56:12>> So right now, so the Sandy Creek Hunt

0:56:16Club utilizes the land. So they lease

0:56:19the land right now.

0:56:20>> Oh, okay.

0:56:21>> There may be some farming too out there,

0:56:23sir, but I can I can verify. But I know

0:56:25Sandy Creek Hunt Club utilizes it. I had

0:56:28uh lunch with them the other day.

0:56:30>> Okay. Uh but if it is some farmland

0:56:34there and if it's not going to be

0:56:36developed, if that's going to be in the

0:56:38part that's going to be untouched, I

0:56:40hope that we will be able to continue to

0:56:42use that as well, you know, as it is as

0:56:45farmland.

0:56:46>> Yes, sir. So, we are in conversations

0:56:50right now. Um, you know, really right

0:56:52now's conversations are really focused

0:56:54with Sandy Creek Hunt Club

0:56:56>> and what we plan to do moving forward

0:56:59with the land. And so we would look if

0:57:02we have the opportunity to be able to

0:57:04allow access to the land if it works

0:57:06out.

0:57:07>> All right. And is all the gas there

0:57:11strictly going to be for Duke Energy?

0:57:15It it won't be any that'll go into your

0:57:18other system or

0:57:20>> so this facility sir is being built to

0:57:22serve DEC ju

0:57:23>> just for them. Okay.

0:57:27>> So the whole property is leased to a

0:57:29hunting club. Is that right? 1300 acres

0:57:31or whatever it is.

0:57:32>> So it's 1,600 acres and right now Yes

0:57:35sir. The hunt club is leasing the

0:57:37property.

0:57:37>> I got you. So they could be growing

0:57:39crops to

0:57:40>> Yeah.

0:57:40>> to hunt off. Yeah. [laughter]

0:57:42>> That's the part I'm unsure about.

0:57:44>> Right. Right. Right. Um, second, and you

0:57:48probably said this during your um I

0:57:51couldn't keep up with all of it, but how

0:57:53much are you going to store there?

0:57:55Either gallons or uh or ever how y'all

0:58:00going to call it cubic feet or

0:58:02>> we we measure that. So, right now, what

0:58:07we're looking at is 3 4.4 Four BCF is

0:58:13how we measure it. Tanks

0:58:17>> 3 point

0:58:18>> three

0:58:20tanks that hold 4.4 BCF.

0:58:24>> Three tanks. Okay.

0:58:25>> Yes, sir.

0:58:28>> And it holds how much now? Because

0:58:29you're talking in a language I don't

0:58:31know.

0:58:33>> So 4.4

0:58:35BCF.

0:58:38>> Okay. and I'll do a little research and

0:58:40uh and that's above ground or below.

0:58:43>> Above ground, sir.

0:58:44>> How much?

0:58:45>> Above ground?

0:58:46>> Above ground. Okay. Uh let's talk about

0:58:48safety of this. Um

0:58:51>> cuz you got three tanks sitting above

0:58:53the ground and I'm sure you got to keep

0:58:56people a certain distance from them. And

0:59:00>> so hold on, let me scoot these notes

0:59:03over here so I can

0:59:04>> I like to ask the easy questions. Okay.

0:59:06So,

0:59:06>> all right. So, so we're going to talk

0:59:07about our existing facilities and kind

0:59:09of some safety measures that we have

0:59:10there. And then we'll talk about

0:59:12conversations that we've started um thus

0:59:14far. Uh so for our existing plants, um

0:59:17so plant management meets with local

0:59:19police and fire liaons to review

0:59:22emergency management plans, safety

0:59:24procedures, and sight specific hazards.

0:59:27These meetings help ensure first

0:59:29responders understand plant access

0:59:31points, evacuation routes, alarm

0:59:33notifications, and communication

0:59:34protocols.

0:59:36And then we review all of this

0:59:38information and we really have a a

0:59:41coordinated support system um for these.

0:59:44There is not, you know, everything with

0:59:47this site is contained inside of the

0:59:50parcel. That's one of the luxuries of

0:59:52this parcel is that it's so big um that

0:59:54there are no extra parameters on the

0:59:57outside of where there would be any

1:00:00impacts. So, in terms of like what we're

1:00:03doing right now, so we've had some high

1:00:05level conversations so far with

1:00:07emergency response. I actually have a

1:00:09meeting at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow with

1:00:11emergency response and the fire

1:00:12marshall. And then we will continue to

1:00:14engage in conversations with them

1:00:17throughout the course of the project.

1:00:18Really, from a safety perspective, one

1:00:21thing that I would tell you is all of

1:00:22our plants, facilities, they're they're

1:00:26all able to be remotely operated from

1:00:28our gas control building. They're all

1:00:30designed to shut themselves down in the

1:00:33event of any event. Um, they can be shut

1:00:36off at the site. They can be shut off

1:00:38remotely at our gas control center.

1:00:42>> Okay. Uh, Tim, who is the fire

1:00:44department that would cover that one

1:00:45there? Do you know?

1:00:47>> Taro.

1:00:50>> Um, you said this is a $2 billion

1:00:53investment.

1:00:54>> Yes, sir.

1:00:55>> Okay. So, that would give the fire

1:00:57department what's their tax rate, do you

1:00:58know?

1:01:0110 or 11 12 cent

1:01:03>> probably.

1:01:03>> So any I'm trying to figure out what

1:01:05kind of money y'all would be giving to

1:01:06them for for equipment that would be

1:01:08needed because you know they don't have

1:01:10anything of this nature um in their

1:01:13facility

1:01:15>> be substantial.

1:01:16>> It'd be a substantial amount of um and

1:01:19you mentioned an amount well ago in

1:01:22property tax. What did you say?

1:01:23>> Four plus million dollars. Um I think

1:01:27>> I think if it's $2 billion investment

1:01:30that would be more like uh 10.8 million

1:01:33unless y'all get some sort of reduced.

1:01:36Do they get some sort of reduced?

1:01:37>> Utilities are

1:01:38>> tax a little differently.

1:01:40>> Okay.

1:01:41>> I think they look at and David would

1:01:43know better than I would, but kind of

1:01:46the value statewide and they do a spread

1:01:48based off of that. I got more or less

1:01:51make sense.

1:01:52>> Yeah. All right. So, I'm trying to

1:01:53calculate all this in my head, but

1:01:55again, the fire departments would get a

1:01:57direct benefit of that

1:02:00that whole two billion. Correct.

1:02:02>> Yes, sir.

1:02:05>> Okay. I was trying to trying to see

1:02:08where we landed with Tyros since the you

1:02:10know those fire districts

1:02:11[clears throat]

1:02:12or budgets changed a fair amount and

1:02:14Tyros right now their adopted budget

1:02:17it's actually u

1:02:2212 almost 13 cents

1:02:24>> 13 cent okay um y'all safety record at

1:02:29your other facilities um can you give me

1:02:32a a score A+ um a

1:02:35>> a++ plus sir.

1:02:38>> And and on that I think one of the

1:02:39important things to note is that LNG in

1:02:43its state um it is not flammable

1:02:47when stored.

1:02:48>> That's that's a good question. That's

1:02:49what I was going to ask.

1:02:51>> Yeah, that is a good question.

1:02:53>> What is the safety hazard? Right.

1:02:56>> Hi.

1:02:57>> So with with us uh and the other thing I

1:02:59would tell you is that it is uh stored

1:03:01it's double wall contained. um it is

1:03:04stored in concrete so it cannot escape.

1:03:08So there's redundancy built into

1:03:10everything that we do.

1:03:13Okay. Another question. Life of the

1:03:14facility.

1:03:17>> The one in Huntersville came online in

1:03:19the 1970s and is still operational now

1:03:24and will continue. We continue to plan

1:03:26to run that facility for a long time. So

1:03:31multiple decades.

1:03:33uh and some of this is dependent upon

1:03:36what happens with Duke as well but

1:03:40buildout time.

1:03:43So understanding that we still have you

1:03:46know internal and external approvals

1:03:48that we need. Basically right now we are

1:03:52looking at the first that we would be

1:03:54able to start construction would

1:03:56probably be in mid 2028 and then it

1:04:00would be several years out from there

1:04:02looking you know more towards 2031.

1:04:06>> Okay. um towards when facilities would

1:04:08be came on came online would be complete

1:04:11and then there would be what we call

1:04:12commissioning activities which is

1:04:14basically testing of the infrastructure

1:04:17and then when DEEC would be ready okay

1:04:19>> to receive fuel.

1:04:21>> Okay.

1:04:22>> Thank you.

1:04:23I think the other I I remembered my

1:04:25other question which was could you talk

1:04:27a little bit more about the horizontal

1:04:29drill and going under the river and I

1:04:31know y'all have had to do that on rivers

1:04:34much larger uh than the Yadkins. So um

1:04:37can you talk about it from sort of a um

1:04:40best environmental practice and if there

1:04:43are any because again that's another

1:04:44concern we've heard from citizens is the

1:04:46disruption it would have um from a

1:04:48conservation standpoint. So could you

1:04:50talk about this is kind of the standard

1:04:52and best practices and what's being

1:04:53recommended?

1:04:55>> Yes sir. Um so you know we talk to DEEQ

1:05:00all the time anytime we have a project

1:05:02and we need to cross any type of body of

1:05:04water. This is the preferred method by

1:05:07DEEQ used to of the day. We would open

1:05:10cut um some rivers and streams, but now

1:05:12they really their recommendation and we

1:05:16we have experts. We have people who

1:05:19that's basically all they do is

1:05:21horizontal directional drill. So we pull

1:05:23back. Um so where the drill basically

1:05:27would enter is

1:05:30sufficient space away from what I'm

1:05:33going to call the riverbed. Um, so where

1:05:35we punch in is going to be outside of

1:05:38the buffer. So we work with, you know,

1:05:40the Army Corps of Engineers and

1:05:42everybody else to determine what the

1:05:44buffer needs to be away from the river,

1:05:46both as we punch in and then as we punch

1:05:49out. We we've drilled hundreds of feet

1:05:52deep. We've did drilled half a mile and

1:05:56longer wide. Um,

1:06:00we we have pipeline that goes underneath

1:06:01the inter coastal waterway. So,

1:06:05this will not be

1:06:07anything abnormal for us. This is every

1:06:10everyday business. Um, and it really

1:06:13allows us the opportunity to create a

1:06:16buffer significant enough around the

1:06:18river, you know, that we're

1:06:21on either side, significantly far away,

1:06:24and deep enough that it doesn't have any

1:06:27impacts to the way the water flows um or

1:06:31anything that really allows people to

1:06:33enjoy and utilize the water on a daily

1:06:35basis. Oh,

1:06:36>> I appreciate that. I appreciate the sort

1:06:37of the balance that happens between the

1:06:39benefit of what this can have and then

1:06:41being a good steward on where it's

1:06:43built. So, thank you.

1:06:44>> You're welcome.

1:06:45>> I try to tell people when they talking

1:06:47about boring, you know, probably one of

1:06:49the the greatest bores I've ever seen is

1:06:52underneath the English Channel that the

1:06:55Euro Star um travels every day.

1:06:59>> The channel, huh?

1:07:00>> The channel. the channel.

1:07:02>> Yeah. 200 246 ft below the English

1:07:05Channel for 23 and a half miles. So, you

1:07:09know, you have very little environmental

1:07:11impact. Again, it's just where you bore

1:07:13it. So, you know, boring's been around

1:07:16for quite a few years and the precise of

1:07:19it anymore. So, that don't really bother

1:07:21me at all, the the boring part. So,

1:07:24okay.

1:07:25>> Have you ever rode the Euro? Okay.

1:07:27>> Have you?

1:07:28>> Yeah.

1:07:29>> Yeah. That's pretty cool.

1:07:30>> Goes really fast. Uh, don't take long.

1:07:3330 minutes or something. 30 40 minutes.

1:07:35>> It goes really fast. So,

1:07:37>> any additional questions?

1:07:40>> I think you've done an excellent job

1:07:42explaining um

1:07:45very detailed what we I think what we

1:07:48need to know.

1:07:50So, we appreciate your time.

1:07:53>> Thank you for your time and the

1:07:55opportunity to speak. Have a good day.

1:07:57>> Thank you.

1:07:59Mr. Golden from Energy United here.

1:08:02>> Energy United.

1:08:03>> Yes.

1:08:08>> Good morning, commissioners. Thanks

1:08:10again for the pin. I appreciate that.

1:08:12That's excellent. Um, thanks for having

1:08:14Energy United here today to talk to you

1:08:16about some of the energy needs in North

1:08:18Carolina and specifically specifically

1:08:19in your county. Um, I think it's

1:08:22probably best to give some context. I

1:08:24think many know who Duke Energy is and

1:08:26who Pedmont Natural Gas is. There's a

1:08:28second largest provider of electricity

1:08:30in North Carolina. That's Energy United.

1:08:32A little bit of a difference in size,

1:08:33but still still pulling our weight. Uh

1:08:36Energy United, uh we serve about 146,000

1:08:40member connections throughout North

1:08:42Carolina. We hit about 19 counties. Of

1:08:45those 146,000 member connections, about

1:08:4831,000 of them sit in Davidson County.

1:08:50So, a pretty significant piece of that.

1:08:53Um, you might hear me refer to them as

1:08:55member connections and not customers.

1:08:57What separates Energy United from other

1:09:00utilities is we're we're memberowned.

1:09:02So, we have uh all of our members

1:09:05customers own Energy United and they are

1:09:08all uh elect a board of directors. Nine

1:09:10board of directors democratically to

1:09:13represent the membership in the

1:09:15governance and regulation decisions that

1:09:17are made for how we do business. So, I

1:09:20think that's uh sets us apart in some

1:09:22ways. I think it allows for us to

1:09:23provide some unbiased views on the

1:09:25energy needs and how these energy needs

1:09:27will affect our community. It also

1:09:29allows for us to focus on three key

1:09:31issues every single day, which is

1:09:32safety, reliability, and affordability.

1:09:35And I think when it comes in terms of

1:09:37projects like the one we're discussing

1:09:39today, uh Pedmont Natural Gas would be

1:09:41Energy United's customer in electricity

1:09:44in serving that electricity. So when we

1:09:46look at large projects like this, one of

1:09:48our concerns always is how is this going

1:09:50to affect the everyday member of Energy

1:09:53United? How could it impact their bill?

1:09:55And I just want to kind of go over the

1:09:57process that we utilize to make sure

1:09:59large loads such as this or even other

1:10:00large loads like a data center for

1:10:02instance, how we make sure we are

1:10:05highlighting the risks that are

1:10:07associated with these large loads and

1:10:09mitigating those risks and making sure

1:10:10that those costs are not passed on. So

1:10:13in a project like this uh it'll be a

1:10:15significant load on the grid then which

1:10:18we'll have to serve. We start by having

1:10:20and conducting a study where we're

1:10:22asking for payment upfront from Pedmont

1:10:24Natural Gas in order for us to locally

1:10:27study at Energy United level and then

1:10:29also study at the transmission level

1:10:31with Duke Energy about what system

1:10:34impacts this project will make on the

1:10:35electric grid. From that study we arrive

1:10:38at a number. It could be 10 million 20

1:10:40million. I don't know what the number

1:10:41is. Sounds like somewhere south of $2

1:10:43billion where what would be required in

1:10:45order to build the grid necessary to

1:10:47serve this load. Now what we try to do

1:10:50is make sure that the customer in this

1:10:52case which would be Pedmont Natural Gas

1:10:54or the member is footing the bill for

1:10:56the the the build the project that

1:10:58they're building and those costs aren't

1:11:00carried over to everyday members.

1:11:02Instead they're footing the bill for

1:11:04that. Um, so that's one part of the

1:11:06equation that we want to make sure we

1:11:07solve and that helps us to mitigate risk

1:11:09and make sure we're not subsidizing one

1:11:11member to the next. The other thing that

1:11:13we do is we look at the power supply

1:11:15needs for the project. And a project

1:11:17like this, I think was mentioned could

1:11:19last 50, 60, 70 years. So in a case like

1:11:22that, we want to make sure that the

1:11:24project owner is going to procure the

1:11:26power supply necessary to to energize

1:11:29that project for all of those years. And

1:11:31if for some reason they decide, hey,

1:11:33we're going to shut down this plant. Our

1:11:35members aren't carrying the risk or the

1:11:37cost of that project. There's some level

1:11:38of credit or backing that ensures that

1:11:41that power supply continues to be

1:11:43purchased or paid for by the project

1:11:45itself.

1:11:47So for us, it's not about being, you

1:11:49know, pro- large load or anti-large

1:11:52load. It's really for us about being pro

1:11:54member. How do we make sure and take

1:11:56care of our member every single day so

1:11:57that these large projects and loads

1:12:00costs are not transferred and our

1:12:01members stay whole in some of these

1:12:03projects? So, I wanted to give you just

1:12:05a different sort of level or

1:12:07understanding of kind of how these

1:12:08projects play out and how that's going

1:12:10to affect our membership and the

1:12:11citizens of your community. So, I'm

1:12:12happy to answer any questions and uh

1:12:15stand by to answer anything you might

1:12:16have. Okay.

1:12:18>> I got a question. Why are you supplying

1:12:20the power u to Pedmont Gas when it's

1:12:24Duke Powers Energy?

1:12:25>> It's interesting, right? So in in in

1:12:28North Carolina, we all have assigned

1:12:29territory and so Duke Energy has this

1:12:32part of the map. Energy United has this

1:12:33part of the map and cities have that

1:12:35part of the map and wherever that load

1:12:37is going to situate is where the the

1:12:39entity that'll serve it. And so in this

1:12:41case, that territory ends up being an

1:12:43energy United territory. So we have the

1:12:45obligation and the right to serve that.

1:12:47>> And you get a majority of your power

1:12:49from Duke Power.

1:12:50>> No, absolutely. We get our power from

1:12:53Southern Power uh in Georgia. We do get

1:12:56some of our energy from Duke Energy. We

1:12:58uh get about 80 megawws from Kaba unit

1:13:00one down in South Carolina, a nuclear

1:13:02power plant down in South Carolina. A

1:13:04lot of the things we do with Duke Energy

1:13:05are utilizing their transmission system.

1:13:08So, we spend, you know, millions of

1:13:09dollars a month moving energy from uh

1:13:13different parts of North Carolina, from

1:13:14Georgia, and down in South Carolina into

1:13:16our territory in order to serve our

1:13:18members.

1:13:19>> So, you use their their wires and

1:13:21>> their big ones. Yeah, we've got our own

1:13:23smaller ones. The big big ones you see

1:13:24out there, that's what we're utilizing

1:13:25for from Duke Energy.

1:13:27>> So, it's been a good partnership, good

1:13:28partnership with Pedmont Natural Gas,

1:13:31with Duke Energy. We all try to work

1:13:33together to sort of serve the needs of

1:13:34our communities as best we can. So the

1:13:36percentage of power would you say from

1:13:39Duke and and Georgia? What's what's the

1:13:41ratio?

1:13:42>> So when you look at Energy United's peak

1:13:44load on the hottest summer day, we're

1:13:45about 800 megawws. So 80 megawatts or so

1:13:49come down from come from Duke Energy. So

1:13:51that's about 10%. The other 90% is

1:13:53coming from our partners at Southern

1:13:54Company. We have a little bit of

1:13:55renewables, run of the river hydro. Uh

1:13:58but for the most part that's coming from

1:14:00uh Southern Comp Southern Power.

1:14:02>> So where does Southern Power where's

1:14:04their power plant? So they actually have

1:14:06some combined cycle plants in CTS in

1:14:08Rowan County and so they have a

1:14:10commercial plant Rowan County. So most

1:14:12of our power comes from Rowan County

1:14:14into um into our territory. Some of it

1:14:16does move across the Georgia border, but

1:14:18the most of it is served internally in

1:14:20North Carolina.

1:14:21>> Okay.

1:14:26>> But the power company's owned in

1:14:28Georgia. Southern Power. That's who owns

1:14:30the

1:14:30>> Yeah, that's absolutely right. Y

1:14:34and the main power need for the Pedmont

1:14:37facility is the kind of to power the

1:14:40liquefification process itself.

1:14:42>> Yeah. I think the big loads that you'll

1:14:43see in there is obviously some

1:14:44housekeeping, you know, bathrooms,

1:14:46things like were described, but also the

1:14:48compressor station, the liquefification.

1:14:50So, we don't have a full understanding

1:14:52of what that load's going to be yet. I

1:14:53think they're still working through some

1:14:54of those details, but that's where we

1:14:56expect most of the load to show up on

1:14:57our site.

1:15:00So no matter if this was data center or

1:15:02or what you guys pretty much require the

1:15:06u the developer to put up the initial

1:15:10investment.

1:15:11>> Yeah. Very

1:15:12>> especially during large load scenarios

1:15:14right when you think about organic load

1:15:16growth like if you're building a housing

1:15:17development or something small we can

1:15:20kind of plan for that and we can plan

1:15:22for that over a number of years. And

1:15:23like I said before we've got 800

1:15:25megawatts peak load. If you think about

1:15:27like a data center coming to town, it

1:15:29could be 750 megawatts. So it took us 80

1:15:32years to build up 800 megawatts with

1:15:35146,000

1:15:36connections. A data center could come in

1:15:39one day be one load for 750 megawws. So

1:15:42they put a very significant load and

1:15:45challenge on the grid. And that's why

1:15:46we're looking for and and risk. Frankly,

1:15:49there's a ton of risk by putting that

1:15:50much load on right off the bat. We have

1:15:53to make sure we derisk the project. And

1:15:54so when it's a large project like that,

1:15:56that's when we're looking to derisk it

1:15:57by having money up front and making sure

1:15:59we study it fully. Small things,

1:16:01commercial, industrial, residential,

1:16:03those are sort of baked in the organic

1:16:05growth of the of the company. We sort of

1:16:07use like that maybe 20 megawatt number.

1:16:10Anything below that is sort of an

1:16:11organic growth level. Anything above

1:16:13that is sort of a larger load.

1:16:15>> It's just pretty [clears throat] much an

1:16:16industry standard because data centers

1:16:18are not new. So I'm sure the power

1:16:20companies has had these investments uh

1:16:23prior to now. So

1:16:25>> yeah, 100%. So I think the industry is

1:16:29getting smarter every day on how to work

1:16:31with data centers. A lot of it started

1:16:33in Northern Virginia. I don't know if

1:16:35you've heard about sort of the data

1:16:36center alley up there and I think a lot

1:16:38of lessons were learned and so we've

1:16:39been very proactive in AR United. try to

1:16:41learn as much as we can from those

1:16:43cooperatives who serve up there as well

1:16:45as our national trade organization and

1:16:47our state trade organization to try to

1:16:49be proactive and be ready if one does

1:16:50show up. We don't want to just be

1:16:52flatfooted and deal with it. And so

1:16:54we've we've tried to take all those

1:16:56lessons learned so that when one does

1:16:57show up, we can deal with it in an

1:16:59appropriate way with de-risisking the

1:17:01project and making sure that money's up

1:17:02front. But I think if you went back to

1:17:04some of those in Northern Virginia, the

1:17:06first couple ones, they probably didn't

1:17:07have the sophistication at that time to

1:17:09know how to deal with it. So, we've

1:17:10learned

1:17:11>> and they probably needed the business at

1:17:13at some point in time.

1:17:14>> 100%. Yeah. I think the the industry has

1:17:16changed too, right? We used to be long

1:17:18on capacity, which basically means we

1:17:20had a lot of generation that was in

1:17:21excess and that that excess has

1:17:23tightened up significantly over the

1:17:25years. So, now it's not as easy to try

1:17:27to bring in that extra load. Now, you're

1:17:28really thinking about how to build to

1:17:30serve that extra load. Like Duke and

1:17:32Pedmont are talking about building those

1:17:33um combined cycle plants.

1:17:35>> I'm sure it kind of comes in cycles. We

1:17:37had the industry to leave for a while.

1:17:39Right.

1:17:39>> So, all the power that was used in the

1:17:40industry left. Um,

1:17:42>> can't get it perfect yet. We're working

1:17:44on it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:17:45>> Uh, Southern Company, are they at

1:17:47capacity now or what's their U?

1:17:50>> No, I So, Southern Company is is a giant

1:17:53company in Georgia. They have different

1:17:55pieces and parts of it. Um, the part

1:17:57that we work with is Southern Company,

1:17:59uh, Southern Power. They're the

1:18:01commercial entity of that. So, they are

1:18:04able to not build for regulated utility

1:18:07experiences like Duke Energy does. they

1:18:08build for commercial. So in the case of

1:18:10like the plant in Rowan County, they're

1:18:13not a regulated utility necessarily and

1:18:16they're not serving a regulated utility

1:18:17base. They are serving um the commercial

1:18:20market. So entities like us who need to

1:18:22buy power on the market, they can serve

1:18:24us. So they they sort of work on the

1:18:26mindset of they build it when when when

1:18:28the load shows up. So if we said to

1:18:30them, hey, we need to build a new data

1:18:31center. We need 500 megawatts. They'd

1:18:34start to talk about what they would need

1:18:35to build in order to serve that 500

1:18:37megawatts. They wouldn't build it and

1:18:39then have them come. They build it when

1:18:40it's required.

1:18:41>> Oh, wow. Interesting.

1:18:43>> Which will take some time, right? It's

1:18:44not something you can do overnight. It's

1:18:45a six-year process to eightyear process

1:18:47to probably get that done.

1:18:50>> Okay.

1:18:52>> Anyone else?

1:18:55>> Good.

1:18:56>> Thank you so much.

1:18:56>> Thank you so much.

1:18:57>> Thank you.

1:19:00>> That was informative for sure. Thank

1:19:01you. Thank you all very much.

1:19:03>> Very much. We appreciate all of you.

1:19:05>> That was good. Good. And I got a

1:19:06question for Duke right quick. Are y'all

1:19:08are y'all going to do any more public uh

1:19:10events before anytime in the near

1:19:12future? Is Yeah, with the gas or I know

1:19:17y'all had a couple here in the county,

1:19:19but

1:19:21>> hey,

1:19:22>> thank you for the question,

1:19:23Commissioner. So, yes, the short answer

1:19:25to that is yes. Uh so we will continue

1:19:28to have meaningful engagement with out

1:19:30the communities over the course of the

1:19:32next couple of months but we are looking

1:19:34towards having some additional open

1:19:36houses combined between Duke and Pont

1:19:40Natural Gas in January.

1:19:41>> January. Okay.

1:19:43>> I got a quick question. It may be

1:19:45something you can't answer. Okay. Why is

1:19:48it that we can't find a solution for our

1:19:51citizens in Lexington for their high

1:19:53utility cost?

1:19:56They I mean it's astronomical people as

1:19:58a citizen the citizen inside the city of

1:20:01Lexon pay humongous prices and I know it

1:20:05goes a lot of years back but why is it

1:20:08that on behalf of the citizens that Duke

1:20:11Power and the city of Lexon can't come

1:20:13together and reduce those rates?

1:20:16I mean look at that. I know you don't

1:20:18have the answer now, but look at that

1:20:20because there ought to be something that

1:20:22can be done for on behalf of these

1:20:24citizens are taxpayers too.

1:20:26>> You know, they pay the county taxes and

1:20:28we need to look after their needs, too.

1:20:30But the the cost of the utilities inside

1:20:32the city of Lex.

1:20:34>> I think that's Electro City's uh

1:20:37>> Well, that's something but I think the

1:20:38supply is coming from Duke Power. They

1:20:41may buy it from other people like Energy

1:20:43United does,

1:20:44>> but I mean see if there's anything that

1:20:46you guys can look at and do if you

1:20:49would.

1:20:50>> I will pass that on to my Duke Energy

1:20:52friends.

1:20:53>> Probably go nowhere. It probably go

1:20:55nowhere. [laughter]

1:20:57>> Thank you'all. Appreciate it.

1:20:59>> Thank you.

1:21:00>> Thank you.

1:21:01>> All right. We're going to move on to

1:21:03item item D. Uh the purchase of network

1:21:07switches for it. Mr. Childress, M.

1:21:11Madam Chair, we've got number B.

1:21:12>> B. Am I Am I'm way off.

1:21:15>> No, C. C.

1:21:16>> C. Excuse me. I'm sorry.

1:21:17>> EMS.

1:21:18>> EMS. Okay.

1:21:19>> I'm sorry. Okay.

1:21:21>> And I'll kind of lead this off. I asked

1:21:22Alton to come in and talk to us this

1:21:24morning about the BLS uh transport. I

1:21:27know we talked about it during our study

1:21:28the other month or whatever. And if we

1:21:32don't start working on some of this

1:21:33stuff, [clears throat] it goes nowhere,

1:21:34you know. So,

1:21:36>> um, ma'am,

1:21:37>> just kind of enlighten us on what you've

1:21:39learned here recently or

1:21:40>> Good morning, commissioners.

1:21:42>> Good morning.

1:21:42>> Um, I'm going to start off with a little

1:21:44bit of a win. [snorts] So, um, our

1:21:46former manager, Mr. Smith, and I have

1:21:49talked over the course of a year to a

1:21:52year and a half with both of our

1:21:53hospitals and and talked about the need

1:21:55for a cath a cardiac cathization center

1:21:58here in Davidson County. So,

1:22:02our folks or our counterparts at Novant,

1:22:05they basically went ahead and put a a a

1:22:07package together and went to a a board

1:22:10of the state that determines if there's

1:22:14a need in a particular area for that

1:22:17that service. Not that they will get the

1:22:20service, but determines there is a need.

1:22:22And I have been informed that once the

1:22:24governor signs the new list, the it's

1:22:27the master medical facilities list that

1:22:30Davidson County has been identified as

1:22:33being able to obtain a cardiac caization

1:22:37center. Now, so that the next process

1:22:39that that'll be is, you know, our both

1:22:42our hospitals, I'm sure, is going to be

1:22:44interested and then they'll have to do

1:22:47their part to see which one gets it. But

1:22:49that [clears throat] is a win. So that

1:22:51that's going to not only affect us by

1:22:53not going out of the county as much, but

1:22:55it's going to affect our citizens to get

1:22:56a service down home.

1:22:58>> So are you telling me it's already been

1:22:59approved?

1:23:00>> It's not been approved. It's going to be

1:23:01in the list, but Governor Stein shall

1:23:03sign it. Supposed to sign it, ratify it

1:23:05this month and then it'll go to the next

1:23:08step. But it all it does it identifies

1:23:10Davidson County. Someone can build a

1:23:12cardiac caization lab here. So that's

1:23:15that's that's been a long

1:23:16>> governor's got to sign it, correct?

1:23:18>> Yes, that is correct. So, do we need to

1:23:19send a resolution to the governor uh

1:23:23supporting that he signed this?

1:23:26>> I put that on the 12th if you'd like me

1:23:28to put something together.

1:23:29>> That's about

1:23:30>> I think that would help. Yeah.

1:23:32>> I mean, that's huge for us.

1:23:33>> We need it, right? You know, and what a

1:23:34dire need it is.

1:23:36>> We've worked on this and we've at least

1:23:38got a notch there. That's a win. What I

1:23:39call a win for us,

1:23:40>> right? And the resolution needs to say

1:23:42our transport times is just so long.

1:23:44>> We'll get out and population grow. Will

1:23:47you will you remind us um and I know

1:23:50Commissioner Shooks knew. Why is that so

1:23:52important? I mean I know why it is but

1:23:54what's the significance of that?

1:23:55>> So um we do a lot of out of county

1:23:58transports. We take to what I call the

1:24:01motherships in Winston and High Point.

1:24:03So we don't have a caization lab here.

1:24:05So if someone is actively having what we

1:24:08call a STEMI, which is a heart attack,

1:24:10they have to be sent to a cath lab which

1:24:13is time. And that's more time that our

1:24:15911 trucks are out of county. The other

1:24:18instances we when we have folks that may

1:24:21be in motor motor vehicle accidents,

1:24:24they have to go to a trauma center. We

1:24:26don't have a trauma center here either.

1:24:28U it's very doubtful that ever happened

1:24:30because you have to have a medical um

1:24:32school on site, but we can at least

1:24:34notch this out with the cardiac

1:24:36caization stuff. You know, we started

1:24:39this whole I I I'll give a little bit of

1:24:41background for Commissioner S. We

1:24:43started we started working on this

1:24:45several years ago when we seen a trend

1:24:46of vacancies. That's when paramedics

1:24:49were allowed

1:24:50to work other places not just on

1:24:54ambulances. So we compete with with

1:24:57corporate basically hospitals, doctor's

1:24:59office, everybody. And so the trend is

1:25:03the staffing openings go up because the

1:25:05need is more vast. And so this ain't

1:25:08just a Davidson County problem. This

1:25:10ain't just a North Carolina problem. is

1:25:12a national problem and years ago I'll

1:25:15well I'll just give you a good example

1:25:17um we had a we had a concern from an

1:25:21from a citizen September the 17th uh

1:25:25about how many trucks we had operating

1:25:27that day was a little bit misinformed we

1:25:30had eight trucks on staff that day out

1:25:33of 11 during the day that covers a truck

1:25:36in every base area in this county so we

1:25:40don't we don't you know discriminate

1:25:42against one community the other for lack

1:25:44of better words. So but during that day

1:25:47in a 12-h hour period

1:25:50we normally run in a 24-h hour period

1:25:52about 80 calls and that day in a 12-h

1:25:54hour period they run 77 calls. They run

1:25:57in 12 hours what we normally run in 24.

1:26:00Now they were busting their tails. they

1:26:02they they are doing the best they can,

1:26:05but we would look at the unit

1:26:08utilization or unit hour utilization.

1:26:11What that means is the time they're

1:26:12spent on calls each truck. That doesn't

1:26:15count doing their paperwork, doesn't

1:26:16count restocking, doesn't count eating

1:26:19or anything like that. Every truck

1:26:21averaged 9 and a half hours during a

1:26:2312-h hour period being on a call. So, we

1:26:25are a busy busy service. I think I sent

1:26:29a comment where we allowed six people

1:26:30off. That's incorrect. We allowed three

1:26:33people off during the day and three

1:26:35people off at night. That doesn't mean

1:26:36they're all off. But but my folks want

1:26:39to take vacations, too. I know it's hard

1:26:41times, but we start cutting on

1:26:43vacations. Then I know what's going to

1:26:45happen. They're either going to call out

1:26:47or they're going to quit. So, we still

1:26:49have to keep in mind, we got to keep

1:26:51these people keep the morale up. And so,

1:26:53this study addressed some of those

1:26:55issues. Um but but the history the

1:26:58history you folks right here you

1:27:00commissioners has been embedded with us

1:27:03for the la for me with me for the last

1:27:05three and a half years. We've not turned

1:27:07a deaf ear or a blind eye. You know

1:27:09right out of the gate we increased

1:27:11salaries by 10%. EMTs got increased by

1:27:1412%. And then you've got all the cost of

1:27:16living raises thereafter. So we've tried

1:27:19to keep up. We've offered our people who

1:27:22sign up extra to work a stipen, an extra

1:27:26stipen to to and to get them incentivize

1:27:30them to ride extra to fill out holes.

1:27:34But they're still that's why we're here.

1:27:35They're still working so hard and we've

1:27:37got to find some ways not only to

1:27:40recruit, to retain people, and to lessen

1:27:43the steam off the load. Um, you know, we

1:27:47talked about some things for morale. I'd

1:27:49like to go ahead and get a nod today so

1:27:51they can turn their social media on and

1:27:52we give these people the res their the

1:27:54recognition they deserve. They want to

1:27:56keep them here. I got seven paramedics

1:27:58graduating from school this fall. Three

1:28:00pastor exams this week. So, there's help

1:28:04coming, but we want to keep them here

1:28:06and keep them engaged and keep them

1:28:07happy. But, you know, I think the

1:28:10biggest thing is what you talked about,

1:28:12Commissioner Yates, is bringing in a

1:28:14third party service, a BLO service to

1:28:17help us take some of that steam off.

1:28:19I've talked to a gentleman in another

1:28:21district and another state even to get

1:28:23some ideas.

1:28:24>> Um, they did this some years ago and

1:28:27they're a little bit comparable to us.

1:28:29This this particular district is a huge

1:28:31urban area and they run 60,000 calls a

1:28:35year. We run 30. They run 20 trucks. We

1:28:38run 10ish and they put on four trucks.

1:28:41So, I'm asking to put on two during peak

1:28:44times to see how that goes. And it it

1:28:46it's a huge process to go through. So,

1:28:48we we have to do some things. But, I'm

1:28:50sure you got some questions about some

1:28:52of those things and what we need to do.

1:28:54But,

1:28:55>> whatever the huge process is, let's fix

1:28:57it

1:28:58>> and let's do it.

1:28:58>> Let's get them on the street. You know,

1:29:00>> it's some contractual legal, you know,

1:29:02legal things we have to jump through the

1:29:04hoops, but I I we I'm ready to move

1:29:06forward with that. Okay,

1:29:08>> one of the biggest things you got to

1:29:10learn, we got to figure out how to

1:29:11compete with the private sector.

1:29:15>> That's a hard nut to crack. [laughter]

1:29:19>> That's a hard nut to crack. That's for

1:29:20sure. It's settled down a little bit.

1:29:23I'll be honest with you. It's It's not

1:29:25as big as it was. They've got their I

1:29:27would say they the the people they

1:29:29wanted, they've got them now, and it's

1:29:30kind of stabilized a little bit. I'm

1:29:32still losing folks here and there. And

1:29:35I'm still lo I'm actually losing folks

1:29:37to other counties, but I think the main

1:29:40reason they're going to other counties

1:29:42is because they've got a lesser call

1:29:44load. I went to Orange County the other

1:29:47week to look at some logistics systems

1:29:49they had. Um they are similar in

1:29:52population, maybe a little less. I

1:29:54looked up the numbers last night, maybe

1:29:56a little less. They run about the same

1:29:58number of units and they only run 17,000

1:30:01calls a year. We run 30 plus thousand

1:30:05calls a year at a similar size service.

1:30:08So that's a that's a big deal. Some of

1:30:10the folks that go into places that run

1:30:122472 means they work a day and all three

1:30:15days. We can't do that because the

1:30:17amount of calls and the safety concerns

1:30:18involved. So the services we're losing

1:30:22to they have less steam. They're not

1:30:25they're not being run as hard so to

1:30:28speak. So, this is going to help that.

1:30:31The private industry, like I said, is

1:30:33always going to be there, but it it

1:30:35comes and goes. I I've actually got a

1:30:38young man back that Commissioner Wford

1:30:40is familiar with that she may have went

1:30:42to church with one day, and he said he

1:30:45basically got tired of the the game at

1:30:48Mobile Integrated Health. So, he's back

1:30:50with us right now.

1:30:51>> Right.

1:30:52>> So, that's another win. That's another

1:30:54win is

1:30:55>> a lot back

1:30:56>> is a seasoned paramedic has come back.

1:30:59>> So, [clears throat]

1:30:59>> you know, we just need more people that

1:31:01wants to get in the field, you know.

1:31:03>> Yeah,

1:31:03>> we do.

1:31:03>> We've seen a decline in that over the

1:31:05years and um

1:31:07>> law enforcement saying

1:31:10>> and some of that's the training

1:31:11requirements, man. You talked about this

1:31:13the other day.

1:31:14>> Sure. Sure. They they have a lot of

1:31:16responsibilities now as a paramedic. It

1:31:18it it is a true u difficult profession

1:31:22and career.

1:31:23And I would compare it to the same as

1:31:25nurses. In some cases, paramedics can do

1:31:28more than nurses because we can work off

1:31:29of protocols and stand in orders where

1:31:31nurses can. So, but but they're the ones

1:31:34out in the streets making decisions that

1:31:36quick to save somebody's life. They

1:31:38don't have time to call on the phone

1:31:40like we did back in the the the olden

1:31:43days, so to speak, when emergency was on

1:31:45television. So,

1:31:48>> I I think a good start would be this BLS

1:31:51contract for sure. Let's get over how

1:31:53many trucks we need in here.

1:31:55>> Um,

1:31:55>> well, some things

1:31:57>> that you may see coming to you.

1:31:59>> Hang on. I got my notes. I'm old school.

1:32:01I hand write everything.

1:32:02>> Also, I'll share some stuff. I've been

1:32:03working on some legislation stuff in

1:32:05Raleigh. So, me and you'll get with

1:32:07that.

1:32:08>> Sure. Well, we we're going to have to

1:32:09work on our franchise ordinance and kind

1:32:11of buff it up a little bit and maybe

1:32:13look at the updating applications, stuff

1:32:15like that. And then I'll work with um

1:32:18Dwayne uh to do an RFQ. So, but we'll

1:32:21move forward and while I got your

1:32:25>> I guess we can go ahead and start the

1:32:26RFQ, right? Because we're just looking

1:32:28for qualifications.

1:32:29>> We can go ahead and start putting that

1:32:31together as well.

1:32:31>> RFQ together ASAP

1:32:33>> and make sure we can

1:32:34>> put all the terminology.

1:32:36>> I guess Mr. Jones, you want to look at

1:32:38this franchise agreement and make some

1:32:40adjustments. You can

1:32:42>> Yes, we'll we'll we'll do what needs to

1:32:43be done. Make sure that we've got the

1:32:45ordinance lined up properly and Okay.

1:32:47and we're taking care of taking care of

1:32:50what needs to be done.

1:32:52>> Okay.

1:32:53>> A lot of things to put in place if we're

1:32:54going to do this to protect us as well.

1:32:57>> So, we want to do this right.

1:32:59>> Yeah. When you say protect us, what what

1:33:01>> Well, we want to make sure we get what

1:33:03we what what we're looking for. You know

1:33:05what I'm saying? We'll make sure that we

1:33:06put all the things in there to make sure

1:33:08we cover what we're asking for.

1:33:10>> Just don't want to restrict it too much.

1:33:12>> No, we don't want to restrict it too

1:33:13much, but there's certain things we need

1:33:15to look at. You know, one example is

1:33:17Um, for instance, they probably have

1:33:19staffing concerns just like we do. So,

1:33:21what's going to happen if they can't

1:33:22staff that truck for us that day?

1:33:24>> You know, what is the implications? Just

1:33:26stuff like that to protect us to make

1:33:28sure we're getting what we want or what

1:33:30we have asked for.

1:33:31>> And we need to put something in there

1:33:33that they don't take our people to run

1:33:35their ambulances.

1:33:36>> True that.

1:33:37>> So, whatever that is,

1:33:38>> that's another thing we'll have to

1:33:39address. That's

1:33:40>> right.

1:33:40>> So,

1:33:41>> because we're not getting ahead if they

1:33:42just taking our people to run theirs.

1:33:46We don't want to miss anything. We want

1:33:47to do this the right way. Y

1:33:49>> Okay. So, whenever y'all get that put

1:33:50together, but again, I think for

1:33:52qualifications, maybe you can go ahead

1:33:53and send that out because the guys or

1:33:56the girls that plays this game, they

1:33:58know.

1:33:58>> Sure.

1:33:59>> They they they in ambulance business.

1:34:01So, you're going to get the

1:34:02qualifications on back. Anybody

1:34:04[clears throat] that's qualified, I

1:34:05would think.

1:34:06>> I got one question about that. as as we

1:34:09put this RFQ out, are you looking for

1:34:12one vendor to do this work or are you

1:34:14looking for a multiple award situation?

1:34:16>> I don't know the answer to that yet.

1:34:18Really, I don't know that any of us does

1:34:19up here. We'd have to look at that.

1:34:21>> We'll see what comes back,

1:34:22>> right?

1:34:23>> Sure.

1:34:23>> I mean, I don't know that I want to put

1:34:24all my eggs in one basket.

1:34:25>> That's where I'm at.

1:34:26>> That's right.

1:34:27>> Okay. Good.

1:34:28>> And I guess we need to figure out how

1:34:29they gonna get paid. Okay. So,

1:34:32>> well, I'll have to work on that as well.

1:34:33And we'll have to

1:34:34>> And y'all have to bring that back to us

1:34:36as well. I mean, are they going to work?

1:34:38>> I'm sure when they submit a bid, they'll

1:34:40have a they'll they'll they'll put a

1:34:42price tag on it, whatever that is for

1:34:44them.

1:34:44>> Okay. Yeah, that works, too. Just

1:34:46require them to put whatever their

1:34:48service

1:34:48>> they're willing to do,

1:34:49>> right? Yep. Do you want to talk about

1:34:52the Midway base while we're in here

1:34:53today and what we need to do?

1:34:55>> Um,

1:34:56>> I know that we're looking at a lot next

1:34:59to the

1:35:01I guess the dump site there in Midway or

1:35:03in there north of Welcome there in the

1:35:06Midway. I talked to Lee yesterday. He

1:35:09said that site was used for the bridge

1:35:13impro app encroachments there for 285.

1:35:16So, it may or may not perk. Uh, we've

1:35:19talked about the sewer up there. The

1:35:20sewer does come to the Starbucks and the

1:35:22Taco Bell there in the front and that's

1:35:24city of Lexon. But there is a property

1:35:27in between there. I don't know if

1:35:28there's an opportunity for an easement

1:35:30to put it up there, but I don't know

1:35:31what we need to do to put this motion in

1:35:34effect and and go ahead and start the

1:35:37process of at least assessing the

1:35:39property to see if it's going to be

1:35:41suitable or not.

1:35:43Uh, in my opinion, first thing needs to

1:35:45be done is get with our sewer engineer

1:35:48and let him look at the existing sewer

1:35:50and see kind of what the expense would

1:35:52be to get sewer to the property.

1:35:54>> Okay.

1:35:55>> And then that's the first step once we

1:35:57he may say it's not much of an issue at

1:35:59all. Yeah.

1:36:00>> Set a couple manholes.

1:36:01>> That's going to be the biggest hurdle

1:36:02for us right there is if we can get it.

1:36:04>> So if it's right there at the Starbucks,

1:36:05it's not very far up.

1:36:06>> No, it's not.

1:36:07>> But again, we got to make sure there's

1:36:08enough fall to get it there. And so

1:36:11first place to start would

1:36:12>> Mr. Cook said it's kind of flat up there

1:36:14so I don't know.

1:36:15>> Yes.

1:36:16>> Yeah. But the sewer line may be deep at

1:36:17the road. So

1:36:18>> yeah.

1:36:18>> Um so I guess Josh or um those guys

1:36:22could look at it for a small fee. I'm

1:36:24sure. I mean they don't normally charge

1:36:26us a lot to to look at something like

1:36:28that. So are y'all okay with Josh and

1:36:31them taking a look at it?

1:36:32>> No, I'm the spot off of Enterprise.

1:36:35>> Yeah. right by the uh that

1:36:37>> the property actually behind uh Taco

1:36:40Bell that is actually for sale.

1:36:44>> Yeah.

1:36:44>> Yeah. Lee said it was. I don't know what

1:36:46I'm sure they're looking for commercial.

1:36:48>> Yeah, they probably are. I don't know,

1:36:51but it's been for sale for a little

1:36:53while.

1:36:53>> Yeah. So,

1:36:54>> and we'd probably have to get an

1:36:55easement across somebody's. I don't know

1:36:57who, but

1:36:58>> All right. Uh if it's somebody wanting

1:37:00to sell the lot behind them, if if we

1:37:02run sewer across their property to get

1:37:04the hours, they'd probably be pretty

1:37:05happy about that. So,

1:37:06>> yeah. Well, if it's selling for

1:37:08commercial, like I said, if they can tap

1:37:09into it, that'll that'll make their day.

1:37:11[laughter]

1:37:12>> Also, in our sewer ordinance, if

1:37:13somebody does buy it and develop it,

1:37:15they got to run sewer all the way across

1:37:17their property to to the next adjoining

1:37:19property. So we could get it run ours

1:37:21free if somebody buys it and develops it

1:37:24or

1:37:24>> I think I think that's an option we need

1:37:26to look at because the initial use of

1:37:29the property we purchased adjacent to

1:37:33the box site was so if the state

1:37:36required us to move those box site we'd

1:37:38have a place to put them.

1:37:40>> So if we do away with that land what are

1:37:41we going to do if they have require us

1:37:43to move that box site?

1:37:45>> How much land we got up there? I don't

1:37:46remember.

1:37:48Do you remember what it was, Lou?

1:37:51>> Okay. So, there should be plenty.

1:37:53>> Commissioner Yates, that is a residence

1:37:55that's for sale there.

1:37:56>> Right. Right.

1:37:57>> And it's not a lot of land.

1:37:59>> Okay.

1:37:59>> With that resident there, it's just a

1:38:02lot.

1:38:02>> I figure maybe somebody want to sell it

1:38:04for commercial though. They do.

1:38:06>> They may, but it's it's only a lot. It's

1:38:08probably an acre, maybe a little less.

1:38:12But if we got seven acres to answer your

1:38:13question, I would guess that'd be enough

1:38:15room for ambulance base and moving our

1:38:18>> Yeah. Um I can't remember.

1:38:21>> How many?

1:38:22>> Hopefully the state won't make us.

1:38:23>> But Lee, you could probably throw a

1:38:24little something together and just if we

1:38:27had to move

1:38:29>> um the current GIS aerials, I can

1:38:33calculate what's existing now and see

1:38:35[clears throat] how much extra we've

1:38:36got. We've got that whole other side of

1:38:37the road on the left. you how you exit

1:38:40that midway box site. Now, everything

1:38:42[clears throat] on the left side of that

1:38:44exit is is Davidson County and it's it's

1:38:46at least equal or bigger than what's

1:38:48there now.

1:38:50>> I mean, we don't need much. We need a

1:38:51half an acre for a ambulance base at the

1:38:54most. So,

1:38:55>> would be my guess. So, as long as you

1:38:57think it'll fit, then we can move to the

1:38:59next step and get the guys to look at it

1:39:01on the sewer side. So,

1:39:03>> okay. But it's a base I think we need to

1:39:05do pretty soon because

1:39:08>> we would also need to check capacity

1:39:10under the railroad. That all goes over

1:39:12local businesses sewer aspect of it. See

1:39:15what kind of capacity because it's not

1:39:17going to be a big water user.

1:39:18>> No.

1:39:19>> So that that may be very minimal.

1:39:22[clears throat]

1:39:22>> Yep. Okay.

1:39:23>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

1:39:25>> And then there is a chance that it will

1:39:26perk and won't have to attach to sewer

1:39:28at all. Correct.

1:39:30>> Well, I guess you're right.

1:39:31>> There's always the chance. You're right.

1:39:33>> Yeah. I know that

1:39:34>> I I years ago they they they pulled top

1:39:38soil off of that property to build

1:39:39bridge approaches for the old the new 52

1:39:43bridge over old 52. [clears throat]

1:39:45That's where that dirt came from. So I

1:39:47don't know whether the perk or not. I

1:39:48know the top so been taken off of.

1:39:51>> Weren't there weren't there mobile homes

1:39:52that we had to remove from that land but

1:39:55bought it?

1:39:56>> That no that that was where the highway

1:39:58was. I mean, so would there possibly be

1:40:01somewhere where the mobile homes were

1:40:03that would perk?

1:40:04>> Well, they were just stored there.

1:40:06>> Oh, okay. They weren't they weren't

1:40:07lived in?

1:40:08>> Okay.

1:40:09>> Yeah. Um, Mr. Swing has some property

1:40:11behind the count to the north of I think

1:40:14they on some properties over that, but

1:40:16that's all of the pool table in there

1:40:18where they take.

1:40:20>> So, probably the place to start would be

1:40:22with our health department. Let them

1:40:24>> Yeah.

1:40:25>> say u

1:40:26>> Yeah.

1:40:27>> Right.

1:40:28Now again, I hear where you're coming

1:40:29from. If they stripped the top soil off

1:40:31of years ago that supposedly No, and

1:40:34voids any

1:40:35>> could

1:40:36>> could, but maybe it's been long enough,

1:40:38>> they they may let us. So, let's start

1:40:40with them first.

1:40:41>> That's a quick easy ass.

1:40:43>> Right. Right. determination on sewer at

1:40:45that point.

1:40:46>> And then if if uh they say maybe, then I

1:40:49guess we need to decide where we want to

1:40:50put it

1:40:51>> and then let them go out and let our

1:40:53health department go out and

1:40:55>> okay

1:40:55>> test the site.

1:40:57Um okay, before we hand it off to Josh.

1:41:01So thank you for bringing that up,

1:41:02Steve. That's I took Lee's word for it.

1:41:05It wouldn't hurt [laughter] or who

1:41:08whoever said that. I guess that was that

1:41:11was that was I'm I'm sorry, Lee. that

1:41:13was happening. [laughter]

1:41:16>> I'll take it all. I don't mind, sir. I

1:41:18appreciate y'all. Um,

1:41:19>> thank you.

1:41:20>> You going to go ahead and let me have a

1:41:22nod to go ahead and let us do some

1:41:23social media stuff this morning. You

1:41:25think?

1:41:25>> My question to social media thing. Who's

1:41:27going to do the social media? I

1:41:28>> I'm going to pick one of my officers. He

1:41:30He's willing to do this. And he's going

1:41:32to pick a team similar to a what you

1:41:34would call a like a a media team at a

1:41:37high school. and we'll make sure

1:41:39everything's watched, everything will

1:41:41be, you know, filtered through. We will

1:41:43not allow any comments. The reason we

1:41:45lost, we didn't really lose, the reason

1:41:47we shut our social media down is

1:41:49basically because of a one individual in

1:41:52the public that continually has

1:41:58questioned us over several years, over

1:42:01four years. And so she was she was all

1:42:04the time on our page, you know, making

1:42:06accusations and comments. And so

1:42:09previous county attorney, we went ahead

1:42:10and shut that down. That, like I said,

1:42:12that's been four years that we've done

1:42:15that. This individual still shows up

1:42:16some, but we'll deal with it

1:42:17accordingly. We will not allow any

1:42:19comments on our page, similar to what

1:42:21the sheriff's office does. But I see

1:42:24other EMS services that has social

1:42:26media. They put pictures of their folks

1:42:27up, the things they done, they recognize

1:42:29them, and it's and and It makes them

1:42:32feel good and proud of what they do.

1:42:33Recently, we did um we gave some

1:42:36t-shirts out for some CPR safes where

1:42:38they got people back that had died and

1:42:40so that was ran in the dispatch. I got a

1:42:42ton of comments over that from from

1:42:45people everywhere and and it made them

1:42:47proud.

1:42:48>> So, is that going to go through one

1:42:49person? So, in other words, if this

1:42:50employee wants to share something, they

1:42:52do whatever they got, they send it to

1:42:54this social media.

1:42:56>> That is correct. One point. One point.

1:42:58That's all we can do. I can't I can't

1:42:59allow multiple people to have their

1:43:01hands on it because you know what

1:43:02happens then.

1:43:03>> Oh yeah.

1:43:04>> So

1:43:04>> I mean I'm good as long as one person's

1:43:06in charge of it

1:43:07>> and u

1:43:08>> we'll monitor closely

1:43:09>> then you know we'll take a look at it in

1:43:11six months. Maybe do this for a trial

1:43:12basis for six months and

1:43:14>> as long as nothing gets out of hand then

1:43:17>> I'll keep an eye on

1:43:18>> we'll continue that that would be my

1:43:20opinion. I don't

1:43:21>> what everybody tells.

1:43:23>> Yeah. One social media coordinator makes

1:43:25sense.

1:43:27All right.

1:43:28>> Thank you.

1:43:29>> Thank you. Y'all have a good day. All

1:43:32>> right. Now we're ready for item D. Uh

1:43:35Mr. Childers, Mr. Parish, and Mr. Minus,

1:43:37purchase of network switches.

1:43:42Come on up,

1:43:52>> Tim. Do you want to start?

1:43:54>> I I can. So,

1:43:55>> okay,

1:43:57>> Daniel will explain the need for this

1:44:00request um and why. So, our five-year

1:44:04capital plan has this request in it. It

1:44:07lives in it right now.

1:44:08>> Okay.

1:44:09>> The only difference between what he

1:44:11we're asking for now versus the 5-year

1:44:14CIP is we had it initially phased in

1:44:17over three years uh for a variety of

1:44:20reasons. Daniel explained, we need to

1:44:22probably just go ahead and and take it

1:44:24all on at one time. Now, there obviously

1:44:28is a cost upfront to that. Um, but if

1:44:33you all may recall earlier this fiscal

1:44:35year, we approved the purchase of some

1:44:37radios [clears throat] for um a variety

1:44:41of departments and our five-year CIP had

1:44:44it programmed in a few a few years.

1:44:46Initially it was in outear so we had

1:44:49adjusted for inflation etc etc we had

1:44:51$2.8 $.8 million programmed in the CIP

1:44:54bids came back at 1.7 million. So that

1:44:57gave us a little bit of slack that will

1:45:00essentially cover and a little bit more

1:45:02the gap that you'll see um that Daniel

1:45:05will talk about. Um so

1:45:09the the CIP doesn't really change or we

1:45:12don't need to put any more money in it.

1:45:14Just hold the line right now and it'll

1:45:16cover this. It's just we're we're fast

1:45:18forwarding and not phasing it in over

1:45:20three years. How much money did we have

1:45:22to see in the CIP for this?

1:45:24>> For this?

1:45:25>> Yeah.

1:45:26>> Over the three years? A million50.

1:45:28>> Million50.

1:45:29>> Yes, sir.

1:45:30>> Okay. What's the cost of this at 110?

1:45:33>> Uh, that's right. That 1.2 1.2.

1:45:36>> So, a little over $173,000

1:45:39more. and some of that what wasn't

1:45:42reflected in the CIP and Daniel will

1:45:44talk talk about it not to jump ahead of

1:45:45you Daniel is uh some um pretty good uh

1:45:48Wi-Fi

1:45:50um [clears throat] enhancements that

1:45:52will enhance security. So that that's

1:45:54driving part of that 173k but that

1:45:58that's due to when I say due to I mean

1:46:01it's time for that to to happen. We need

1:46:04those enhancements

1:46:05but u Daniel can explain the the project

1:46:08and what we're doing. So 173k more, but

1:46:11you said we saved a million. What on the

1:46:14radios?

1:46:14>> 1.1 roughly.

1:46:16>> 1.1.

1:46:16>> Yes, sir.

1:46:17>> Okay. So there's well enough money then

1:46:20in the CIP and

1:46:22>> that's right.

1:46:22>> Savings to to pick up the difference.

1:46:24>> Yes, sir.

1:46:25>> All right. Good morning, Madam Chair,

1:46:28fellow commissioners. Um

1:46:30>> the current switches, most of them that

1:46:32we have in place, they were put in

1:46:34service um mid 2000.

1:46:39Um,

1:46:40>> what's a switch?

1:46:41>> A switch provides network connectivity

1:46:43for all the computers in the county.

1:46:45>> Thank you.

1:46:46>> So, we have them um in our server room.

1:46:49We have them on each floor of this

1:46:50building.

1:46:52Um, we also have them any building that

1:46:56the county owns and has county staff in,

1:46:59we have a typically we have a switch

1:47:01there. Um, and it provide the

1:47:03connectivity phone service to those

1:47:06departments.

1:47:08Um, and like I said, most of them, well,

1:47:11not most, but

1:47:13primarily the largest amount of them

1:47:15were purchased back in 2000 when this

1:47:18building um

1:47:21Joe Hartley when he built the network.

1:47:23>> Okay.

1:47:24>> So, in 2000

1:47:25>> in in the 2000s. Yes.

1:47:27>> Okay.

1:47:28>> Um

1:47:29>> 2005 2000

1:47:31>> 2005 2006 something like that. um is

1:47:34when he started building the network and

1:47:36then as you guys added buildings and

1:47:38expand we expanded the network out um of

1:47:42course this is the core. So, as

1:47:44buildings came online, we had to add

1:47:46switches to that, too. And um HP has

1:47:51basically since moved away from

1:47:55the switches that we currently have to a

1:47:58new they've developed new models and new

1:48:00plans for things

1:48:02and basically have rendered our

1:48:04warranties useless.

1:48:06Okay.

1:48:07>> Um so, if switches die right now, I

1:48:10can't get replacements,

1:48:11which scares me. So, we're going to

1:48:13replace every one of the switches.

1:48:15>> This is This is for every switch that

1:48:16the county owns.

1:48:17>> How many switches is that?

1:48:20>> Uh, we currently have about 85.

1:48:22>> 85. [clears throat]

1:48:22>> Yeah.

1:48:26>> Are we going to stick with HP? Um, I'm

1:48:29looking to move to Extreme Networks.

1:48:32Um, they they came in with some better

1:48:34pricing and some better security.

1:48:38>> Yeah. Um, as it stands right now, uh, if

1:48:42we have somebody come in and we don't

1:48:44know about it, um, because there's

1:48:45things that happen in the in the the

1:48:47different departments that we can't keep

1:48:49an eye on always from an IT standpoint,

1:48:53somebody can bring a a rogue laptop in

1:48:55and plug up to our network and

1:48:57potentially get network access. [snorts]

1:49:00um if they're not monitored, they could

1:49:03do something rogue and

1:49:06we wouldn't see it till after the fact.

1:49:08>> Okay. Um so with with this, it would

1:49:12give us some some some additional

1:49:13network monitoring and we can control it

1:49:17has to be a county owned device for that

1:49:19network for it to even get connectivity.

1:49:22Um and as part of this too, our wireless

1:49:26um our wireless was put in back in 2017

1:49:282018 and protocols have changed since

1:49:31then. Um and our current wireless is

1:49:34becoming into life. So this package does

1:49:38include upgrading our wireless also.

1:49:42>> Yeah.

1:49:42>> And it is extremely

1:49:44>> What vendor are you using to get this?

1:49:47Uh it is going through data network

1:49:49solutions

1:49:51is the vendor that is quoting this. Um

1:49:54it is done off of 204X which is a state

1:49:56contract that is that it is allowed to

1:49:58use. Um basically the state has done all

1:50:02they've gone out done all the bidding.

1:50:03>> They've already done the vetting.

1:50:05>> They've done the vetting of all the

1:50:06vendor of all the products and

1:50:08everything and

1:50:09>> they have a state contract that um it is

1:50:12a little unique in that. Now, Dwayne

1:50:15could probably talk to more about that.

1:50:17Um,

1:50:18that prevents us from having to do

1:50:20actually the propo, you know, go out and

1:50:23get proposals and quotes and stuff like

1:50:24that.

1:50:25>> Um, it's a little different for us. Um,

1:50:29>> since this is over, since this is an

1:50:32amount over the 250,000, there is a

1:50:34clause in the contract that I do have to

1:50:36have state IT approval to make this

1:50:38purchase.

1:50:39>> Okay.

1:50:40>> I do have that approval already in hand.

1:50:43Um

1:50:46>> what's what do you anticipate the

1:50:48lifespan of this new new

1:50:53>> that's hard [clears throat] to predict.

1:50:54>> That is hard to predict right now. Mhm.

1:50:56>> Um,

1:50:58with I'm sure you've all heard the the

1:51:00word AI um or the the artificial

1:51:04intelligence stuff that is driving stuff

1:51:08um especially some computer stuff uh

1:51:10like hard drives, memory,

1:51:14um things are going crazy. Um, I can get

1:51:17a quote today for a computer, just a

1:51:20plain computer system. They won't

1:51:21they'll do good to hold it two weeks

1:51:23because the prices are changing that

1:51:25rapid.

1:51:26Um, this vendor, they're holding they

1:51:29are holding this quote for me um for a

1:51:31little while, but they are they're in

1:51:34the same boat. They're experiencing

1:51:35those same price increases. It's across

1:51:38the board pretty much in everything it

1:51:40[sighs]

1:51:41>> So, we probably won't get 20 years is

1:51:43what you say? No,

1:51:45>> probably not. I am not expecting 20

1:51:48years.

1:51:49>> What kind of warranty? What kind of

1:51:50support do you have on?

1:51:52>> Um, the these will come initially with a

1:51:54seven-year warranty. Sevenyear support.

1:51:56>> Okay.

1:51:57>> We're going to get seven years.

1:51:58>> I was going to say that's about the life

1:52:00of it. Anyway,

1:52:01>> uh, in my past experience, you know, and

1:52:05the reason I'm trying to do this also is

1:52:07because, um, there's a pending jail

1:52:10possibly going to be built.

1:52:13Um, and with the agreement the way that

1:52:16they've got it in this package,

1:52:19when we move forward to add us any any

1:52:21switches that we have to add for the

1:52:22jail, we don't have to the licensing

1:52:25that we're purchasing with this will

1:52:27include any f future purchases for seven

1:52:29years.

1:52:30>> So, I don't have to buy additional

1:52:32license. I just have to buy the

1:52:33equipment.

1:52:34>> Yeah, that's huge there. Uh,

1:52:38I know when we were, you know, buying

1:52:41switches and and we were continuously

1:52:44having to buy switches after switches in

1:52:47the telephone industry. Uh, as

1:52:50technology changes, it just it just eats

1:52:54up the life of those quick. So, seven

1:52:57years is about all you'll ever get out

1:52:59of a switch in most cases. So if we've

1:53:02got close to 20, we have done really

1:53:06well.

1:53:06>> Yeah.

1:53:08>> Um to me, I'm good with this. I don't

1:53:10know.

1:53:12>> Will you say the cost again?

1:53:14>> Uh I think it's coming in a little bit

1:53:16over 1.2 million.

1:53:18>> I think one

1:53:20>> 1 million50

1:53:20>> 223135

1:53:22at 90. Okay.

1:53:25>> Thank you.

1:53:26>> That's money that's already

1:53:27appropriated, right?

1:53:28>> It's not appropriated. It's in capital

1:53:30reserve and the ask would be just to put

1:53:33it on the budget amendments for the next

1:53:34meeting.

1:53:35>> There's no additional

1:53:37>> Okay,

1:53:37>> that's right. We're just essentially

1:53:40shifting the plan around,

1:53:41>> right?

1:53:42>> Fast forward a couple of years, but the

1:53:43money's in capital reserve. Yes, sir.

1:53:46>> How long does it take all to get all

1:53:47this implemented once

1:53:50what's the switch out time?

1:53:53>> We'll start with this building. This

1:53:54building is the most critical as far as

1:53:55the infrastructure. Um,

1:53:59and so we'll we'll have to start here.

1:54:02Once we get this building done, then

1:54:03moving out to the other buildings,

1:54:06um, should progress fairly quickly.

1:54:10Um, my thing is to I want to have I want

1:54:14to have some switches on hand. If our

1:54:16current switches start failing, then

1:54:17I've got a game plan since I can't get

1:54:19replacements.

1:54:21Um,

1:54:23and we we will have to do some things

1:54:25after hours. Um, because I can't I can't

1:54:28take this building down obviously during

1:54:308 to5. Um, there's other buildings that

1:54:33I I can go and do a switch out cuz um it

1:54:37may be a 30-minute interruption or

1:54:38something. We could plan those around

1:54:40lunches or something like that. Um, this

1:54:43building and the courthouse would be the

1:54:45two probably main interruptions that we

1:54:48can't do during the day.

1:54:49>> We can during night

1:54:50>> in the health department. So we'd have

1:54:51we would have to do you know the high

1:54:53use departments like that after hours

1:54:55weekends stuff like that.

1:54:57>> So are you doing it with your own team

1:54:59or

1:54:59>> Yes. Okay.

1:55:00>> If the comp um the vendor and the

1:55:02company or Extreme Networks is going to

1:55:05assist us with this building.

1:55:06>> Okay.

1:55:07>> Um cuz like I said, this building is my

1:55:10concern and I can't take this one. I

1:55:12can't let this one go down. Um and then

1:55:14when we start branching out then my my

1:55:16staff will um we're planning to be

1:55:19trained. Um I've got two guys going for

1:55:21training already lined up. Um the forite

1:55:26county is using this. So they're holding

1:55:28a two-day training session boot camp

1:55:30where they're actually plugging in

1:55:32plugging in the equipment and stuff.

1:55:34I've got two staff doing that uh in

1:55:37October

1:55:38and then

1:55:40so we're trying to get get our foot

1:55:43ahead of the game on this.

1:55:44>> Sounds like you got it under control. So

1:55:46>> it does. It does.

1:55:46>> I'm hoping.

1:55:47>> Does the 75 switches that you mentioned

1:55:51a while ago, does that include the

1:55:53surplus or you going to have to have

1:55:56additional switches to have a surplus on

1:55:59hand in case one goes bad?

1:56:02I've got surplus which is

1:56:05I don't have a lot. Um we we're using

1:56:09three different models right now. We

1:56:10have a various array of different

1:56:12models. Um we're scaling the project to

1:56:16use three models and I will at least

1:56:18have one one model of switch on the

1:56:21shelf for when it goes down

1:56:23>> just once.

1:56:25>> And then some of our larger switches um

1:56:28the one that we have primarily I plan to

1:56:30have

1:56:31three or four, maybe five on hand just

1:56:34for those.

1:56:36Um, and they will also like if a 24 port

1:56:38switch goes down, I can take one of the

1:56:4048s, put it in place temporarily

1:56:43>> until we get the replacement, then

1:56:44switch it back out.

1:56:45>> So, you're happy with that? You got You

1:56:47think you got everything covered in case

1:56:49we start?

1:56:51>> I'm hoping so.

1:56:52>> It sounds like you do. Hoping so.

1:56:55[clears throat]

1:56:56>> All right.

1:56:57>> I put a lot of work in this.

1:56:58>> Thank you, Daniel. Appreciate it.

1:56:59>> What you do? Thank you. Y'all do a good

1:57:01job. Thank you.

1:57:03>> All right. We're Mr. [clears throat]

1:57:05Crooks coming up and we've got a disc

1:57:08session on land development.

1:57:10>> Good morning, folks. Thank you for your

1:57:12time. Um, I wanted to reach out this

1:57:15morning. First off, thank you for um

1:57:17allocating some funds to to go back

1:57:20through and update our current county's

1:57:23land development plan. The manager's

1:57:24office and you folks were gracious

1:57:26enough to do that. Um, we need to form a

1:57:29uh steering committee for this. And I

1:57:32think I've submitted in your in your

1:57:34packet kind of a layout. We've talked uh

1:57:37I've talked to [clears throat and cough]

1:57:37Jesse Day with the Piedmont Tribe

1:57:39Regional Council and he has kind of

1:57:43recommended the structure of the

1:57:45committee be as such. Several, you know,

1:57:47three commissioners, two planning board

1:57:49members. There's some um there's some

1:57:52other thing other u directives in there

1:57:55that um

1:57:58here we go.

1:58:00He he recommended maybe a DOT

1:58:02representative and I've made some

1:58:03suggestions and I've actually talked to

1:58:05a couple folks. Haven't you know

1:58:07extended the um the invitation to be on

1:58:11the committee yet. I wanted to get

1:58:12direction from you folks to see how

1:58:14y'all wanted to structure this. Uh the

1:58:16current plan was adopted in 2009. that

1:58:19goes out in 2029.

1:58:22And uh this will probably take about a

1:58:23year-long process. So, but I I think it

1:58:26it would be um important to get

1:58:29somebody, you know, some some good

1:58:31people on this committee because they're

1:58:32going to be steering where the county

1:58:34goes from a growth plan standpoint for

1:58:37the next foreseeable future.

1:58:40>> Question for you. Um or madam chair, is

1:58:43it all right or

1:58:43>> Yes, Governor. Yes, sir. for the two or

1:58:46three um commissioners to be on it. Is

1:58:49this something that needs to be I guess

1:58:51when do we need to make that decision? I

1:58:53asked just because I know we're going to

1:58:54have um some turnover and an influx of

1:58:56newer commissioners come December. So,

1:58:59do we have that kind of time or is this

1:59:00something that needs to be made before

1:59:02then?

1:59:02>> No, I think that I think that we have

1:59:04some time. We're going to have like two

1:59:07meetings early in the process. I think

1:59:09we're we're talking about getting

1:59:10started next month. Um not sure the the

1:59:14the dates of the meetings are flexible

1:59:18from what I understand am and the time.

1:59:20We just need kind of two meetings early

1:59:22in the process and then there'll be two

1:59:23meetings later on. That's you know

1:59:26before community involvement surveys

1:59:29community meetings and then compilation

1:59:31of the data that we collect.

1:59:33>> Okay.

1:59:34>> Well then I'll I mean I'm

1:59:36>> I'll just go ahead and put it out there

1:59:37for the board's awareness and for yours.

1:59:38I mean I'd be interested in serving.

1:59:40>> Okay. if I don't know if we need to have

1:59:42any kind of consensus right now, but

1:59:44just throwing it out there.

1:59:46>> Well, this is just to kind of make you

1:59:48folks aware and get y'all thinking about

1:59:50who you may want to have on these

1:59:52committees. Again, I've recommended some

1:59:54names here. Uh and and if y'all

1:59:58I'm human, so if I've missed something

2:00:00that you guys think is important, please

2:00:02please let us know. A segment of the

2:00:04community, we want some development

2:00:06community folks, real estate, uh a

2:00:09folks. would like DOT representatives,

2:00:11somebody maybe from the school system,

2:00:14um somebody from the faith community. I

2:00:16I recommended Mr. Jarrett because he had

2:00:18been asked and he may be watching this

2:00:20morning, but he has reached out to our

2:00:22office several times about trying to

2:00:23provide, you know, housing for people

2:00:26and transition from, you know, a

2:00:28troubled lifestyle, trying to get back

2:00:29on their feet.

2:00:31>> Well, I'm I'm good with your

2:00:33recommendations um that you have here. I

2:00:36I can I can kind of if if I get

2:00:38direction from the board this morning to

2:00:40I can pull some names together, get some

2:00:42commitments, and then come back with

2:00:44those if that if that's the pleasure of

2:00:46the board.

2:00:46>> You probably need to do that after the

2:00:48first of the year because like Matt

2:00:49said, there's no need of

2:00:51>> Absolutely.

2:00:52>> Not unless there's enough people here

2:00:54that want to serve on it, but uh and

2:00:57maybe Steve would want to if that's the

2:00:59case, and that's fine. But or I think

2:01:01Trip said he was serving. He kind of had

2:01:04his hands full now, but I ain't trying

2:01:06to put any words in anybody's mouth. The

2:01:08planning board needs to pick their own

2:01:10members.

2:01:10>> Mhm.

2:01:11>> Yes.

2:01:11>> You know who they want to do. So, yes. I

2:01:13mean, I see Christian Jones and Joe, but

2:01:15again, that that'd be up to the planning

2:01:17board to pick their two members that

2:01:19>> Sure. Okay.

2:01:20>> they'd want to serve on that would be my

2:01:21opinion.

2:01:23>> Okay.

2:01:24>> And the rest of it looks pretty good.

2:01:25somebody from the development community

2:01:27and somebody from real estate and

2:01:30>> Okay,

2:01:31>> I think it looks like a pretty good

2:01:33model.

2:01:34>> Okay,

2:01:34>> I think so.

2:01:35>> Well, I I I appreciate that. I'll I'll

2:01:38I'll verify some of these names and and

2:01:41bring that back to you folks and then

2:01:42we'll get that committee u settled and

2:01:44[clears throat] start moving forward.

2:01:46>> And I and I'm not so sure maybe you take

2:01:48two from the development community and

2:01:50two from the real estate.

2:01:51>> Okay? you know, because you got two

2:01:53different viewpoints and you got two on

2:01:56the planning board there. I mean, from

2:01:58the planning board

2:01:59>> and like I say, the planning board and

2:02:01the um and the board of adjustments.

2:02:07>> Okay,

2:02:08>> that might not be a bad idea at all.

2:02:12>> Okay. All right. I'll see if anybody

2:02:15from the board of adjustment wants to

2:02:16wants to serve.

2:02:18>> Does that sound good? I don't I don't

2:02:19think it's going to be a large

2:02:21commitment with the number I think four

2:02:24meetings over the course of about a

2:02:25year.

2:02:26>> Okay.

2:02:26>> So, it's not and [clears throat] again

2:02:28it they're flexible. Could be AM or PM.

2:02:33>> Um

2:02:36>> I don't know. Let me think about that

2:02:38one.

2:02:38>> Do you need three commissioners?

2:02:41>> No.

2:02:41>> Well, that that would be the max.

2:02:43>> Two commissioners. Yeah, that that would

2:02:44be the max that we we

2:02:46>> and I I when I say development, let's

2:02:48look at this. Let's do um commercial

2:02:51development

2:02:52>> and residential development. You need

2:02:54one from each.

2:02:55>> Okay.

2:02:56>> Okay.

2:02:56>> That's what I come from your EDC.

2:02:58>> Good point. Yes, sir.

2:03:00>> Uh real estate, same thing. Community

2:03:02real estate person, I mean a commercial

2:03:04real estate or and then a

2:03:09very very good point. [snorts]

2:03:13We can do that.

2:03:16>> Sounds good.

2:03:16>> Good. Thank you.

2:03:17>> All right. Nail down some names and uh

2:03:19get them back to you. Do you want me to

2:03:20bring it back in meeting or just submit

2:03:22it to Debbie so you guys can look at it?

2:03:25>> I'll probably just bring it back to a

2:03:26meeting.

2:03:27>> Okay, we can do that. Sounds good.

2:03:29>> Would this be something that you guys

2:03:31would formally appoint or just give a

2:03:34consensus that that you're good with

2:03:35who's on it?

2:03:36>> I'd say we need to formally appoint

2:03:38>> just be because it's sort of just going

2:03:39to be an ad hoc committee. Okay.

2:03:41>> Okay. Okay. Mhm.

2:03:43>> I like that.

2:03:45>> Thank you.

2:03:46>> Thank you, Cle.

2:03:48>> All right. Lastly, I think this is

2:03:50before the close session, second

2:03:52workshop on data centers with Krookton

2:03:56Charge.

2:03:57>> Basically, what I wanted to do is is I

2:03:59wanted to keep this process uh I want to

2:04:02explain the process we're in. I want to

2:04:03keep it very visible to the public.

2:04:05That's why I wanted to do this in open

2:04:07meeting this morning. First off, I want

2:04:10to announce that uh we we're in the

2:04:12process of a text amendment. We're going

2:04:14to have a meeting on October 6th at 6:00

2:04:18p.m. with the planning board in this

2:04:20room. So, anyone who's interested in

2:04:23submitting information or ideas

2:04:26regarding data centers, please come to

2:04:28that meeting. we we we should receive

2:04:30comment and uh we'll be we'll be kind of

2:04:34smithing doc a document to supplement

2:04:37our zoning ordinance to regulate data

2:04:40centers. Um the information that I have

2:04:47um submitted to you folks is based off

2:04:49of a conversation or two that I've had

2:04:51with the full board kind of giving

2:04:53direction and I just wanted to kind of

2:04:54make sure that I'm still on target. Um

2:04:57the the document that I have prepared,

2:04:59I've got one prepared and it went out to

2:05:01the planning board yesterday as a

2:05:03special use class A that which would end

2:05:06up excuse [clears throat] me it would

2:05:07end up back in front of this body for

2:05:09approval. um in some LI and HI districts

2:05:14um we have we have segregated the

2:05:16different types of of data centers out

2:05:19uh the the the edge the the enterprise

2:05:22the colo the hypers scale hypers scale

2:05:25AI and and I want to thank Mr. Curry

2:05:27who's here this morning. He's been an

2:05:29invaluable resource uh providing what's

2:05:32going on not only locally in the state

2:05:34but all over the country. And it while

2:05:37the statutory framework's different in

2:05:39other states, it's good to see what

2:05:41they're doing. Uh although we may not be

2:05:44able to follow suit because of the

2:05:46framework of our statutes. But um I

2:05:49basically wanted to make sure that we're

2:05:51still kind of somewhat in agreement that

2:05:53we're going to let the regulatory side,

2:05:55the the utility side regulate itself. Uh

2:05:59I did put a little bit of language in

2:06:01the text for a certification from a

2:06:05certified engineer that the most

2:06:07efficient

2:06:09cooling system that can be utilized uh

2:06:12is employed for that type of data

2:06:15center. uh not asking for water usage

2:06:18amounts or anything like that, but just

2:06:20certification that they are using closed

2:06:22loop because that's some language that's

2:06:23in the uh Senate Bill 730 that that may

2:06:26or may not get passed in that form

2:06:28requiring that. Like to mirror that if

2:06:30we could. Um so that's but we're

2:06:33basically looking at setbacks, noise,

2:06:37building height, lot sizes, uh landscape

2:06:40and buffering. We're we're trying to

2:06:43regulate the effects that these

2:06:45facilities have and and in looking and

2:06:48trying to segregate the different types

2:06:50[clears throat] and there is overlap the

2:06:53the specific types of data centers that

2:06:56are used the edge the enterprise the

2:06:58colo there are different types of uses

2:07:02but the effects and I would welcome Mr.

2:07:05Curry's input on this cuz I'm not an

2:07:07expert. I'm studying but I'm not an

2:07:09expert. The there's overlap. You can

2:07:12have a colo campus that uses as much

2:07:16energy as a small scale hypers scale a

2:07:19small hypers scale data center. Um, so

2:07:23what we've done, and this is just the

2:07:25initial thought, is we've kind of broken

2:07:27the different types of uses down by

2:07:29power usage because what runs the

2:07:34equipment that's causing the effects

2:07:35that we're trying to regulate is power.

2:07:37The more power that's being used, the

2:07:40more of that equipment that's being run.

2:07:41So that's kind of how we've segregated

2:07:44it down so that the ones that are using

2:07:46the most power get the special use

2:07:49permit or to uh and have the larger

2:07:51setbacks and and you know that that type

2:07:54of u that's how the ordinance would

2:07:56treat them.

2:07:58Um, [clears throat]

2:08:01staying away from water and cooling.

2:08:03>> Staying away.

2:08:03>> I don't know that that works, Lee.

2:08:06>> Okay.

2:08:07>> And I'm going to tell you why. Because

2:08:08you could have one that uses less power,

2:08:10it may make a heck of a racket.

2:08:13So, if you got smaller setbacks,

2:08:17does that make sense? Did I hear you

2:08:19right in what I just heard you say? the

2:08:22the yes

2:08:24>> because I I I've read about one whether

2:08:26it's true or not it hadund and some

2:08:28little small generators outside so you

2:08:30know trying to generate the power so

2:08:33again the usage of power may not but

2:08:36again that's why I said I'm not real

2:08:38concerned about setbacks I'm more

2:08:40concerned about the noise at the

2:08:41property line

2:08:42>> right and

2:08:44>> handle it there and again you come up

2:08:46with a 200 foot setback or something of

2:08:48that nature but other than that what

2:08:49we're really trying to

2:08:52is nullify the noise at the property

2:08:54line. Right.

2:08:54>> Mhm.

2:08:55>> Right.

2:08:55>> So, however they come up with that,

2:08:57however they decide to do that in their

2:08:59engineering work, as long as we don't

2:09:01get the noise. But does that make sense

2:09:02what I'm saying?

2:09:04[clears throat]

2:09:05>> Yeah. And also, I mean, even a a large

2:09:10facility may not have very much noise at

2:09:13all.

2:09:13>> Right. is and they may not consume as

2:09:17much power as a smaller one would just

2:09:20because of if they're using DC type

2:09:24servers over AC type servers they may

2:09:27not pull as much power because [snorts]

2:09:30as they are converting that AC to DC you

2:09:35know it doesn't take as much energy as

2:09:37it does uh just serving all of them with

2:09:41AC power to those servers

2:09:44So that's a

2:09:48and forgive me

2:09:49>> and maybe I wasn't hearing you right. I

2:09:50was reading and listening to. So

2:09:52>> that's okay. H how does how does that in

2:09:55turn relate to cooling? Because cooling

2:09:57I think is what causes the effects that

2:09:59we're that we're talking about that

2:10:01we're trying to regulate

2:10:03>> and [clears throat] and the cooling

2:10:05aspect. But you know we're talking about

2:10:07the power consumption, right? uh it is

2:10:09going to consume quite a bit of power

2:10:11for cooling and uh

2:10:15running whether AC or DC is going to

2:10:18take you know quite a bit of cooling

2:10:20issues

2:10:20>> and those are the apparatus that that

2:10:22are causing a lot I think of the the

2:10:24noise.

2:10:25>> Yeah.

2:10:25>> So that's where we're going to have to

2:10:28have them to do the study on how much

2:10:30noise they're going to be producing

2:10:32>> that that's in the document. it. In

2:10:34fact, what what we've got proposed,

2:10:37again, it's a proposal, is a pre sound

2:10:40pre uh development sound study to to say

2:10:44this is what the this is what the sound

2:10:46levels are now. And then another a post

2:10:49one at completion to show what they

2:10:52would be with operation. And we've set

2:10:55and again, this is all negotiable 55 dB

2:10:58at the property line right now. So, um,

2:11:01and there's some screening language in

2:11:03there and things things of that nature.

2:11:06>> So, you know, it's kind of like I said

2:11:08before, um,

2:11:11I don't really care about a study.

2:11:14What I care about is they can't go over

2:11:1655 decimals when the project fires up.

2:11:20You know, you can have all the studies

2:11:21you want. That that does us no good

2:11:24other than somebody said you're not

2:11:26going to have 55 decimals at the

2:11:28property line. Again, I could care less

2:11:30about the studies. I want us to have a

2:11:32decimal meter out there at the end of

2:11:33the property line when they fire up. Of

2:11:35course, it needs to be in the in the

2:11:36zoning that their decimals can't be

2:11:38above 55. Of course, like I said before,

2:11:42we don't need to require them to have

2:11:43any lower decimals than already there.

2:11:45So,

2:11:46>> at the at the property line.

2:11:48>> Sure.

2:11:49>> Um, so does that make sense?

2:11:51>> Yeah. I you just

2:11:52>> because we can study people.

2:11:54>> Yeah. you're trying is what you're

2:11:56trying to do. And he's already

2:11:58suggesting that [clears throat]

2:11:59>> it's it's hard to put it's it's hard to

2:12:03make this document without it being

2:12:04[clears throat]

2:12:06>> addressing 40,000

2:12:09issues. You know,

2:12:10>> it is

2:12:11>> I think that's what you're

2:12:12>> and there's always going to be one you

2:12:13may forget. But when I say at the

2:12:15decimal line or to decimal at the

2:12:18property line, we don't want the

2:12:19decimals to be above a certain level. I

2:12:21don't care how they get there, you know,

2:12:24>> right?

2:12:24>> As long as they get it. So they may come

2:12:26in and they may be 85 decimals at the

2:12:29property line. So guess what? Now they

2:12:31got to build a retaining wall up

2:12:33>> 30 ft to get the decimal back.

2:12:36>> So again, that's where we need the power

2:12:38to go. If you're above this, then you've

2:12:41got to do something about it. You know,

2:12:42you got to fix it whether and again, I

2:12:44don't want to tell them how to fix it

2:12:46other than it's got to be fixed. Does

2:12:48that make sense to you guys?

2:12:49>> Yes. Does that make sense to you?

2:12:51>> You're trying to simplify it.

2:12:52>> Yeah. I think I had a similar note about

2:12:54do we need to differentiate how we

2:12:57define each one because it it does get a

2:13:00little complicated and I I mean one idea

2:13:03and I don't know if this is the right

2:13:04one. So certainly open to debate is do

2:13:07you try to define them and have

2:13:09measurements for one that is a principal

2:13:11use data center which that's the sole

2:13:13purpose versus the accessory server data

2:13:17centers that would you know power like a

2:13:19hospital or a school ones we already

2:13:21have like is there opportunity for that

2:13:23or

2:13:23>> the yes the the document does break

2:13:26those out that's a that's an enterprise

2:13:28>> that's what you meant by enterprise

2:13:29>> enterprise data data system or data

2:13:31center uh which is solely owned and

2:13:33operated by entity.

2:13:35>> Uh and in fact, the proposal right now

2:13:38is to allow those in in every district

2:13:41because it's associated affiliates. It's

2:13:44no different if if we needed a building

2:13:46somewhere to house our servers, we would

2:13:48do that.

2:13:49>> Those are usually lower power users,

2:13:51>> right?

2:13:52>> Yeah. And and they don't have the

2:13:53cooling apparatus and they don't have

2:13:55all the noise that's associated with a

2:13:57larger a larger system

2:13:59>> from what I understand.

2:14:00>> They want the uh decimal levels and all.

2:14:03>> Yeah. Right. Yes. Yeah.

2:14:06>> Yeah. Okay. Duly noted. Yeah. We can we

2:14:09can do um we can do something like that

2:14:11with a development standard, you know,

2:14:14where it doesn't require special use

2:14:15permit, just staff to go out and measure

2:14:17the the decibel level. But we need to

2:14:20make sure that that I'll get with legal

2:14:22and and get the language solid on that

2:14:24so that it's enforcable uh from a

2:14:27development standard standpoint. Okay.

2:14:30because that's that something that's you

2:14:32know objective and measurable and we can

2:14:34do that at the staff level.

2:14:37>> Okay.

2:14:37>> But like I said the decimals don't need

2:14:38to be any more stringent than they were

2:14:41u

2:14:42>> prior prior development.

2:14:44>> That that's subjective to change over

2:14:46what time of year it is.

2:14:48>> Yeah. So I mean in the in the winter

2:14:50time it's a lot quieter than it is in

2:14:52the summertime. It's a lot quieter in

2:14:53the evening than it is. You like at my

2:14:56house, I can hear 285, which is 1,200T

2:14:59through thick trees. It sounds like it's

2:15:00running across my back deck. I go out

2:15:02there during the middle of the day, you

2:15:03can't hear it

2:15:04>> because the air thins up. The medium,

2:15:06which which the sound waves move through

2:15:09thins and it doesn't travel as much. And

2:15:12the frequency has a bearing. Uh at lower

2:15:14frequencies, good analogy. You hear

2:15:17somebody go down the road with a car

2:15:18with loud music, you hear the bass. You

2:15:21don't you can't tell what the song is,

2:15:22but you hear the bass. That's a lower

2:15:24wavelength, and those are harder to

2:15:26stop. So, the sound that's being

2:15:28produced by the building has some impact

2:15:31on, you know, how far it travels.

2:15:35So, it's it's it's

2:15:38difficult.

2:15:40It's difficult. So that that the study

2:15:43kind of was going to speak to the level

2:15:44of soundwave, what where the frequency

2:15:47was at so that we would they could kind

2:15:50of set

2:15:51how far it needs to be away to reach the

2:15:54decibel level that we're looking at and

2:15:56let them design a system to to reach

2:15:59that level. I've spoke with some site

2:16:03acquisition folks uh for these

2:16:05facilities. They didn't jump they didn't

2:16:07bulk at 500t setbacks. They said with

2:16:10500 foot setbacks and and sound

2:16:12absorbing panels, you can make one

2:16:14almost non-perceptible at the property

2:16:16line.

2:16:19>> Yeah. But again, we're just trying to

2:16:20accomplish the noise level. So to me,

2:16:22the setbacks, you know, you're telling

2:16:24people what they can do with their

2:16:26property or what they can't do, right?

2:16:27>> You know, now again, I don't have a

2:16:29problem with 250 ft or something.

2:16:31>> I'm more concerned about the uh impacts

2:16:33it's going to have on the neighbors, you

2:16:35know, or the people adjoining. That's

2:16:37really what we concerned about, you

2:16:39know, and like I say, some of the

2:16:40properties around here are one of the

2:16:42properties that I know that probably is

2:16:44the best candidate for a data center.

2:16:47You got Interstate 85 traffic, you got

2:16:49Highway 64 traffic, you got a noise

2:16:51level there already that's

2:16:54pretty uh evasive, you know, or

2:16:58>> it's it's impactful,

2:16:59>> right? Impactful, you know. So, again,

2:17:01that's what I'm saying. But anyhow, I

2:17:04mean, I I'm willing to

2:17:06>> the doc and and it's it's malleable. We

2:17:09can change it the you know, we'll go

2:17:11through the process with the planning

2:17:12board. We'll get their recommendations

2:17:14and it comes back to you guys and we'll

2:17:17smith it, word smith it to how y'all

2:17:19y'all want it as well and reach

2:17:21consensus on it.

2:17:22>> But, you know, kind of what I got

2:17:24vision, you ride down the interstate and

2:17:25you see these panels.

2:17:27>> Yeah.

2:17:28>> Yeah. I mean, that's what they're for,

2:17:30you know, to keep the noise impact from

2:17:31the neighbors on the other side. So, you

2:17:33know, again, if the developers got to do

2:17:35that, then so be it, you know.

2:17:37>> Well, sound is best dissipated at the

2:17:39source.

2:17:40>> So, if you put these things up at the

2:17:42source, that that quietens it down a lot

2:17:44better than having it further away from

2:17:46the source.

2:17:47>> So, that and that's that's DOT study

2:17:51that that's why they put the walls up

2:17:53next to the interstate so it'll

2:17:55dissipate that noise quicker. So the

2:17:58closer

2:17:58>> you got a whole lot of room. Okay.

2:18:00>> Correct. Right. Right. Right. But the

2:18:02closer the the dissipation technique is

2:18:04to the sound of the the that you're

2:18:06trying to dissipate it, it's more

2:18:08effective. If you're going to plant

2:18:10trees next to something, the closer they

2:18:12are, the better they are at at, you

2:18:14know, uh knocking the sound levels down.

2:18:17And I and I guess I'll say this here

2:18:19because I ain't so sure, you know,

2:18:20everybody understands this, but I said

2:18:23I've talked to a developer at one time

2:18:25about bringing a data center here. You

2:18:27guys have too, right? I mean, they

2:18:29they've come to our meeting, the the

2:18:31folks that wanted possibly to bring a

2:18:33data center here. Again, they gone. They

2:18:36don't want to bring a data center here

2:18:38anymore. Okay. Um,

2:18:41but they were going to purchase

2:18:451,200 acres of land.

2:18:48>> And put a data center on 200 acres.

2:18:50>> Yeah.

2:18:51>> Yes.

2:18:52>> So there's 1,000 acres around it, but

2:18:55nothing would touch. Okay. I mean, it'd

2:18:57be natural. And u So I I just want the

2:19:00public to know the impact.

2:19:03The data centers are a lot less

2:19:05impactful on property than the same

2:19:09people or the same piece of property

2:19:11could have 10

2:19:13120 acre

2:19:15distribution centers

2:19:18with all asphalt.

2:19:20They're legal to do that now. Okay. on

2:19:22this piece of property. So, you can have

2:19:2410 industrial sites with tractor and

2:19:26trailers going in and out or um or

2:19:30industrial businesses uh I would say and

2:19:33distribution centers. So, I really want

2:19:35the public to understand if they want

2:19:37something less impactful other than the

2:19:39water, again, the power is the power

2:19:42companies. They got to figure that part

2:19:44out. We're not in the power business.

2:19:46And actually the water is the utility

2:19:49people's

2:19:50issue. You know, I heard the other day

2:19:52somebody said um a data center would use

2:19:57a million gallons a day in water. Okay,

2:19:59I get it. That sounds like a lot of lot

2:20:01of water. So I looked up in the Yatkin

2:20:04River, there's like 1.6 billion gallons

2:20:08of water comes through there a day, you

2:20:09know? So 1845 million gallons of water

2:20:13comes down through. To me, a million

2:20:15gallons sounds like a lot. But when I

2:20:17seen these billions coming through or

2:20:19one and a half billion, maybe it's not

2:20:21as big an impact as we think it is, you

2:20:23know. So, anyhow, uh I'm not giving

2:20:26youall education on data centers. I said

2:20:29just watch out what you wish for, okay?

2:20:31Because the million square foot uh

2:20:34distribution center, which they can come

2:20:36in in light industrial already.

2:20:38>> Yes, sir.

2:20:39>> And they can have 200 tractor trailers a

2:20:41day coming in and out.

2:20:42>> Mhm. and you know 10 people working in a

2:20:45warehouse that's just on forklift

2:20:47loading trucks or 20 whatever it is

2:20:49that's a pretty big impact on the land

2:20:52runoff

2:20:54um every bit of it asphalt and building

2:20:56and so these data centers may not be as

2:21:00bad as we think they are okay

2:21:03[clears throat] so again I'm saying when

2:21:05we start trying to restrict them

2:21:08>> be careful because you may get what you

2:21:09don't want okay so

2:21:12That's a similar conversation we were

2:21:14having with the the Pedmont Natural

2:21:15folks on the conservation which was 80%

2:21:18cuz we asked that is is going to be left

2:21:20>> 200 acres out of 16 acres.

2:21:22>> They're only going to do 20%

2:21:23>> 360 acres.

2:21:24>> And I mean I I mean if y'all saw like

2:21:27the subdivision I live in. I mean that

2:21:30doesn't compare with the amount of land

2:21:31that's going to be saved um with Pedmont

2:21:33Natural. I guess my my concern with this

2:21:36with the data centers in general and the

2:21:37the text amendment is does it make more

2:21:40sense though to start off a little more

2:21:42strict and a little more robust than

2:21:44maybe we would knowing long term you

2:21:47could always kind of scale it back and

2:21:50this is maybe the teacher I mean and

2:21:51Karen you might appreciate this but I

2:21:53always found it was easier to start off

2:21:55the year very strict and very firm with

2:21:57the students and kind of start dialing

2:21:58it back a bit just because there is some

2:22:01ambiguity like is there an argument to

2:22:02be made for that

2:22:06>> um

2:22:08well other than you run them off and

2:22:11they don't come here and then you end up

2:22:12with 10 million square foot warehouses

2:22:15with asphalt all over the ground. So did

2:22:17you really accomplish what you was

2:22:19trying to accomplish? You know

2:22:21>> you you think that the enough

2:22:23regulations would keep them from coming

2:22:25here in general?

2:22:26>> Yes.

2:22:27>> Sure. I think that the level of

2:22:29regulation you can certainly overreulate

2:22:33most of the de and keep in mind I've not

2:22:35talked to a lot of data center people

2:22:38but

2:22:39>> developers as a as a rule of thumb want

2:22:41to know what the rules are. If they know

2:22:43what the rules are and they want to be

2:22:44there they'll be here.

2:22:46>> Uh but they just want to know what field

2:22:48they're playing on. And I think it says

2:22:50a whole lot about the type of regulation

2:22:53you adopt as to whether you're open for

2:22:56business welcoming them. If you're

2:22:58trying to address legitimate concerns, I

2:23:01think they're used to that.

2:23:02>> No, they're good with that.

2:23:03>> Yeah, they're used to that. If you adopt

2:23:05a quarter mile setback, that's saying

2:23:08that sends a message we don't really

2:23:09want you an extreme point and can always

2:23:12overstep.

2:23:14And and the reason I say that, you know,

2:23:15I talked to Google the other week, okay?

2:23:17The lady told me what the vote was on

2:23:19the moratorum

2:23:21right off the bat. So that means Google

2:23:24was watching

2:23:25>> what we were doing with the moratorium.

2:23:27I watched y'all had a three-3 vote, you

2:23:30know.

2:23:30>> Um, so they're watching, you know, now

2:23:33again, whether they ever come here or

2:23:35not, who knows, you know. Uh, and if

2:23:37they don't come here, then again, I

2:23:39think you will in the future get the

2:23:41million square foot warehouses with the

2:23:44asphalt and the trucks. And, you know,

2:23:46I'm in the asphalt business. I get it.

2:23:47It's be great for me, but it ain't

2:23:49really what I'd rather see with our

2:23:51countryside, you know.

2:23:53>> I'd rather see only 200 acres used out

2:23:55of the the 1,200, you know.

2:23:58>> Uh, so just again, beware. I mean, I I

2:24:01want us to take care of our neighbors.

2:24:02That's what I'm saying. And I wouldn't

2:24:03want a data center coming back be behind

2:24:04my house when I couldn't sleep all night

2:24:07from the lights or from the noise or you

2:24:10know so again [clears throat] we do have

2:24:12an obligation to protect our citizens.

2:24:14>> Sure.

2:24:15>> And and I'd like to talk to Chuck after

2:24:16the meeting. Okay. Because me and him's

2:24:18on different sides of a lot of issues I

2:24:20can see. But

2:24:21>> you know I want to talk to him just to

2:24:22get his side.

2:24:24>> Um but again I think if the general

2:24:26public knew when I read this stuff on

2:24:28Facebook and they don't want this and

2:24:30they don't want that. If they knew what

2:24:31their alternatives was, they might

2:24:34decide they want something different.

2:24:35>> Well, I don't think we can prohibit it.

2:24:37We can't. We're going to have to provide

2:24:40a location for them. Uh, Institute of

2:24:42Government tells us we can't prohibit

2:24:44them. It would take an exceptionally

2:24:46unique set of circumstances for us to

2:24:48have a prohibition ordinance. So, we're

2:24:51going to have to regulate them. However,

2:24:52the philosophy of the board sees fit to

2:24:55do that.

2:24:56>> Right. We need standards and we need to

2:24:57be kind of to Todd's point, we still

2:24:59have to be good stewards. We just

2:25:01>> I'll say it.

2:25:02>> And to me, it's not all about tax money.

2:25:04But again, I'm gonna throw it back this

2:25:05way.

2:25:06>> If you got 10 1 million square foot U

2:25:10warehouses,

2:25:12>> you got a billion dollar investment, you

2:25:14know.

2:25:15So out of all that foot traffic and all

2:25:17those tractors and trailers and all

2:25:19that, you got a billion dollar

2:25:20investment to where this one company

2:25:22that come in was just like um the gas

2:25:26company, a $2 billion investment. But

2:25:28this one company that was going to use

2:25:29the 200 acres, it was a uh $10 billion

2:25:33investment.

2:25:34>> Yes.

2:25:34>> So you're getting 10 times the bang for

2:25:36your buck for your schools, for your

2:25:38fire departments, for your

2:25:39>> Sure. You know,

2:25:40>> they're lucrative. They're very

2:25:41lucrative,

2:25:42>> right? So, but again, um

2:25:46you know, let let's just be careful what

2:25:48we do. I want to be good stewards of

2:25:49both sides. So, sure, um [clears throat]

2:25:52that's why I say the noise level to us.

2:25:53I I'm not trying to make it as stringent

2:25:55as I can on these people, but let's make

2:25:57sure whatever we decide at the property

2:25:59line is that's is what we want, you

2:26:01know.

2:26:01>> Well, and that and I think that's what

2:26:02we're after. Having I'm not a noise

2:26:04expert. I've I've have some experience

2:26:07measuring noise and I I know what

2:26:09travels and I don't I know what doesn't

2:26:11travel.

2:26:12>> Church road you got a uh was it is it

2:26:14Beex Church

2:26:17>> not going to mention any names but

2:26:19[laughter]

2:26:19>> we know

2:26:20>> cuz they're they're they're trying

2:26:21they're trying. So yeah,

2:26:23>> but I seen this morning I seen just

2:26:25happened to see one this morning on the

2:26:26news or somewhere that thing was like

2:26:28eight or 10 stories high. So I seen in

2:26:30here you want to do a threetory or

2:26:32something. So now that I'm good with,

2:26:35you know, again, I don't think we need

2:26:36to have a eightstory

2:26:38>> Yes.

2:26:39>> building out in the middle of the

2:26:41country, you know, and it's it's going

2:26:42to be hard to mitigate that noise coming

2:26:45from the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh

2:26:47floor.

2:26:47>> Well, apparently this equipment's heavy.

2:26:50It's it's it's heavy and and so they

2:26:52don't normally go up. I mean, I saw some

2:26:54examples of seven, eight

2:26:55>> I've seen like eight stores,

2:26:58>> but you know, technology, too. I see the

2:27:00chips. I read about a chip the other

2:27:02day. It takes half the electricity and

2:27:05it takes a lot less water to cool it.

2:27:07It's the newest chip on the market. So

2:27:08what is that going to be 5 years down

2:27:10the road, you know? So we're trying to

2:27:12make something here today that some of

2:27:15it may be garbage two years from now.

2:27:18>> That's right. It's going to happen.

2:27:19>> So again, it's like I said the other day

2:27:21to me, we don't need a moratorum. We

2:27:22need to get our foundation in place and

2:27:25if we got to take another bite at the

2:27:26apple two years from now, then we take

2:27:29another bite of the apple. here's

2:27:30something we see the markets changed.

2:27:32Let's let's put this in effect. So

2:27:34>> this is scheduled and if I understand

2:27:36the moratorium is probably going to be

2:27:38set for the 26 the vote on that this

2:27:40document will be on uh the the board's

2:27:43agenda for the 26th. So you you'll be

2:27:46able to look at this and

2:27:47>> but we got to do both

2:27:49>> make a discernment on this and then

2:27:51decide on a moratorum you know after we

2:27:53take a look at this I would assume. So,

2:27:56>> I think Steve, sorry,

2:27:58>> I may have made a mistake, but the

2:28:00notice of the agenda cover sheet and I

2:28:03may have missed the date. I've got it on

2:28:05for November 9th. [clears throat]

2:28:07>> Uh, Piedmont is on for November 9th

2:28:11supposedly.

2:28:11>> Right. That's right. That's right.

2:28:12>> Pedmont's on for we didn't want to set

2:28:15those for the same meeting.

2:28:17>> That's right.

2:28:17>> So, the the data center is the 6th and

2:28:20the 26th and Piedmont is the 20th and

2:28:23November 9th. Now, can we change the

2:28:25date on the moratorum to see if we can

2:28:28pass this first?

2:28:30>> I think let's just let's just make sure

2:28:31the text amendment vote comes first

2:28:33because I think Steve Steve said it

2:28:36>> best when it was like if you think the

2:28:38text amendment covers all the concerns,

2:28:40but you can vote for that, not the

2:28:42moratorum if you think it doesn't go as

2:28:43far.

2:28:44>> That's right.

2:28:44>> You know, and you know, we're not the

2:28:47only county that's looking at a

2:28:49moratorum. Oh, yeah. Guilford County

2:28:51just did the exact same thing. uh the

2:28:54same night we did as far as putting it

2:28:56on their agenda. Guilford County did.

2:28:59This is statewide. It is everybody is

2:29:04looking at the unknowns and they're and

2:29:08we're trying to get educated about it so

2:29:10that we don't have some of those

2:29:11unknowns. But it's all the unknowns and

2:29:14and more unknowns we have,

2:29:18the more questions that we

2:29:20>> There's not really that many unknowns if

2:29:22you want to. studed it for a while.

2:29:25>> Um, and I've studied it. I mean, there's

2:29:27a lot of stuff out there,

2:29:28>> but there ain't a lot of unknowns, you

2:29:30know? I mean, everything's pretty much

2:29:31uh documented the way I've read. Uh,

2:29:35>> the effects are the effects.

2:29:37>> Right. Right. The effects are it's

2:29:38either noise, it's power use, and it's

2:29:40water use, you know?

2:29:42>> I mean, that there's your three. Uh, and

2:29:45you're right. I mean a lot of people's

2:29:46doing moratorum because the elected

2:29:47officials that probably don't dig into

2:29:49the subject matter hard enough correct

2:29:51to get something done. Yeah.

2:29:53>> If it took me six months to to figure

2:29:55out a business decision, I'd have been

2:29:56broke a long time ago. You know, I mean

2:29:59that there's where I'm coming from. But

2:30:00again, we can take this public hearing

2:30:02and bump it up another week or two. If

2:30:05this don't pass,

2:30:07then we'll do the public hearing for the

2:30:09moratorum, you know, but if this passes,

2:30:12why waste a lot of people's time? Well,

2:30:14that's what that's the reason I said you

2:30:16know during that agenda if we if this

2:30:20passes then the moratorum we'll just

2:30:22vote it no

2:30:24>> we can consider this that night the

2:30:25first thing and look at it

2:30:27>> right but the problem is you got a lot

2:30:28of people that's going to show up here

2:30:29>> true

2:30:31>> you know they not going to understand

2:30:32that they're going to go well wait a

2:30:34minute why' they just do that and then

2:30:36you know they were setting the public

2:30:37hearing up again if we can't cover what

2:30:41needs to be covered

2:30:43on the 26 and come up with something

2:30:46then have the next board meeting where

2:30:48we consider a moratorum and do it you

2:30:50know but if we if we settle it again to

2:30:55me it looks to me like between the board

2:30:59the planning board and us if we can't

2:31:01come up with the rules that we need to

2:31:03put in place I don't know what else you

2:31:05waiting you know I mean I don't know

2:31:06what else you can do

2:31:09>> and that's the document that we've put

2:31:11forth is is an effort to do do that.

2:31:13>> You're talking noise, you're talking

2:31:14power consumption, water consumption.

2:31:16Again, those two we have no control.

2:31:18>> We're staying away from those.

2:31:20>> Um, [clears throat]

2:31:20and then again, we're talking about just

2:31:22in the county because the city election,

2:31:24city of Thomasville can do anything they

2:31:25want to

2:31:26>> at this point. We have no control over

2:31:28those.

2:31:29>> Right.

2:31:30>> Um,

2:31:30>> right. It's just my thought, you know,

2:31:32and I I think as a board we're smart

2:31:35enough to put something together by the

2:31:3727th and and and

2:31:39have something uh

2:31:41>> y'all y'all correct me if I'm wrong, but

2:31:43when these folks from Duke Energy and

2:31:45Piedmont were doing the presentation on

2:31:47energy usage, energy energy united,

2:31:50>> the gentleman mentioned, if I my notes

2:31:52serve me correctly,

2:31:55140,000 customers use 800 megawatts of

2:31:58power. Well, he said potentially one

2:32:01data center could use 750 megawatts,

2:32:03which is more than 140,000 customers.

2:32:06And he said in order to something coming

2:32:08like that in, he specifically out of his

2:32:10mouth said he didn't want to get caught

2:32:12flatfooted. It would take five to six

2:32:14years for them to build something that

2:32:16would provide that extra drain on the

2:32:19grid. So that's the whole reason why the

2:32:22majority of us the other night suggested

2:32:24a moratorum. And it's not long. It's not

2:32:27like it's a year, two years. It was four

2:32:29months for goodness sakes just to be

2:32:31sure that all of these things are

2:32:33answered, that the public is adequately

2:32:36answered and notified of what's going

2:32:37on. That was the whole It wasn't being

2:32:39anti- data.

2:32:40>> I get you there, Trip. But the power is

2:32:42not in our control.

2:32:43>> But I'm saying

2:32:44>> power. We don't own Duke Power. What we

2:32:46need to do is is look after our

2:32:48constituents on the setbacks, the noise

2:32:50level, that kind of thing. Duke Power is

2:32:52the one or either Energy United is the

2:32:54one that's got to furnish them power.

2:32:55And I appreciate them wanting to be

2:32:57proactive and try to figure it out. You

2:32:58know, where are they going to get their

2:33:00power from? But again, these data

2:33:02centers are coming whether they're here

2:33:04or anywhere else. And I know you don't

2:33:05want to hear that, but they're coming

2:33:07somewhere.

2:33:07>> There's several jurisdictions that have

2:33:09stopped them, Todd. So, I'm just telling

2:33:10you, I'm not anti-data center for

2:33:13everybody out here to hear. I am for

2:33:14being

2:33:16>> cautious about moving forward on these.

2:33:18>> You can't stop them. Did you just hear

2:33:19what he just said?

2:33:20>> That's what he said, but I've seen other

2:33:22other reports that said they have been

2:33:23stopped in certain areas. So, I'm just

2:33:25I'm just saying I'm just trying to be

2:33:27cautious and do what people elected me

2:33:30to do, not rush into something.

2:33:32>> I'm not rushing in. They elected me to

2:33:33do the same thing, Trip. Okay. I mean,

2:33:35I'm elected official just like you are,

2:33:37>> right?

2:33:38>> And you know, the people try to

2:33:40>> they elect us to try to do the best we

2:33:42can do. Okay? That's all they can ask us

2:33:44to do, I think, is the best we can do.

2:33:46Again, I don't have any control over

2:33:48Duke Power, Energy United. They don't

2:33:50want to sell them power. And if they

2:33:52don't have the power, then our problem's

2:33:54solved, you know. But what we need to do

2:33:56is the noise level, the setbacks, uh,

2:33:59uh, you know, again, Davis and water,

2:34:02they going to sell them to water if they

2:34:03got it. If they don't, that kills it

2:34:06already. Um, so I just don't see where

2:34:10these here, these rules that we're

2:34:12trying to come up with have anything to

2:34:13do with the power company. Now again, we

2:34:15got to decide on the power plant

2:34:18whether we need it or not, you know,

2:34:20>> and again, that's kind of hard for us to

2:34:22say Duke Power is telling us they need

2:34:25it, but we don't think they need it. So,

2:34:28but I guess

2:34:29>> I'm just saying to be in communication

2:34:31with them. So, it is a potential thing

2:34:32coming, like you say, go directly to

2:34:34them, say, "Well, it's going to take

2:34:36this much power. Can that even be done?"

2:34:38And like you say, it may kill it from

2:34:40the get. I know it couldn't be done on

2:34:43the property that they looked at uh on

2:34:4664. The power could not be done,

2:34:49>> right?

2:34:49>> Okay. So, again, the power company's in

2:34:51control of that. Um so again the company

2:34:57there could have built their own gas

2:34:59turbines

2:35:00and supplied the power and they were

2:35:02willing to do that but there's something

2:35:05in statue that uh they was going to make

2:35:09additional power and Duke Power didn't

2:35:12want to buy it back or somebody didn't

2:35:13want to buy it back. I don't know and I

2:35:15don't know much about that detail so I

2:35:17don't want to speak a whole lot about it

2:35:19but you know it wouldn't be drawing the

2:35:20power off of anybody's grid. they was

2:35:22going to supply their own power. I mean,

2:35:25>> I guess the best thing, like we're

2:35:26talking right now, is if they've got the

2:35:29necessary protections, we look at both

2:35:32of them on the 26th, we make our

2:35:33decision that allays the concerns of the

2:35:37people out here, but it's going to most

2:35:39directly affect, hey, we may not need we

2:35:41may not need a moratorium.

2:35:42>> But I've heard from the people just like

2:35:43you have. I mean, I I know there's

2:35:45people that don't want a data center.

2:35:47Okay. Uh and there's people that want a

2:35:49data center. So, I get that, you know. I

2:35:51mean I again I've been doing this like

2:35:5316 years a long time. So I get we can

2:35:56come up and they can come up and say it

2:35:57again that they don't want a data

2:35:59center. I've already heard it you know

2:36:01and that's okay. I mean I don't mind

2:36:02listening to it again and I listen to

2:36:04those people. They may not think I do

2:36:06but again I got to look at the total

2:36:08picture

2:36:09>> again. That's why I want to talk to

2:36:11Chuck after this meeting. He may say,

2:36:13"Look, I'd rather have 10 million square

2:36:14foot uh distribution centers and 200

2:36:19trucks each distribution center going

2:36:20out every day,

2:36:21>> right?"

2:36:21>> Or he may go, you know, Yates, I ain't

2:36:23never thought about that.

2:36:26>> I might rather look at the data center.

2:36:27It may be a good Well, you know,

2:36:29>> that's that's like I say, there's safety

2:36:31and a multitude of counselors. That's

2:36:33why [clears throat] it's incumbent upon

2:36:35us to look at it from all these

2:36:36directions and and get this information

2:36:38to let them know. So, we're all on the

2:36:40same sheet of music. And I have I've

2:36:42studied it a lot, you know. I mean, I've

2:36:44studied these data centers a lot. I

2:36:45don't do any

2:36:47>> any decision I make up here. I usually

2:36:49study it a whole lot. Um, you know, and

2:36:51I sent you some stuff. I don't know if

2:36:52you ever had time to look at it yet or

2:36:54not, [clears throat]

2:36:55>> but uh, very good information there.

2:36:57Both sides, you know, both sides. So, I

2:36:59like to look at both sides, you know.

2:37:01>> But again, that's just my opinion. The

2:37:03board can do what they want. Not going

2:37:04to waste any more of our time. I think

2:37:06y'all doing a good job. Again, I think

2:37:09we should have enough information as as

2:37:11smart men and women here to try to come

2:37:13up with an answer and a solution by the

2:37:1627th.

2:37:17Again, if we need to take another bite

2:37:19at the apple and put something in there

2:37:21a little bit more stringent, uh, we can

2:37:23later, we I'm sure a lot of these people

2:37:25ain't got it perfect, you know, no

2:37:28matter which. I've seen one's got a

2:37:302500T setback, right?

2:37:32>> Yeah. They got some extreme setbacks out

2:37:34there. screen s you know. And again,

2:37:36what are they trying to accomplish? Are

2:37:38they trying to accomplish noise at the

2:37:39property line?

2:37:41>> Well, I I guess that it's a a

2:37:43speculation, but I assume that. I assume

2:37:45that. Or they're just sending a message.

2:37:47We don't really want you here, you know,

2:37:49with that big a setback.

2:37:50>> You know, I want to work for the people

2:37:52trip, but I don't want to be a

2:37:53bureaucratic government.

2:37:54>> I'm same way.

2:37:55>> Don't want to be a bureaucratic

2:37:56government.

2:37:57>> Same way.

2:37:57>> Cuz I see I see. I think what their

2:38:00purpose is is to give him directions as

2:38:02he move forward with this and and

2:38:05present us back with

2:38:07>> I'm listening and and I'm hearing that

2:38:10middle of the [clears throat] roads what

2:38:11what we want. We want to address we want

2:38:13to try as best we can to address

2:38:15legitimate impacts of these facilities

2:38:17whatever that takes and and uh but not

2:38:21be overbearing. I I've got I got some

2:38:23decom decommissioning language in it.

2:38:25I've got stuff like that. So, uh, I

2:38:28started off kind of strict.

2:38:29>> That needs to be in there.

2:38:29>> That needs to be in there.

2:38:30>> I started off kind of strict.

2:38:32>> I don't like the bond on there because

2:38:33again, the bond I want to see a cash.

2:38:35>> Well, and then that's something we can

2:38:37smith. That's something we can we can

2:38:39work out, but I started off kind of

2:38:41strict and and then we can kind of pull

2:38:43back and uh you folks should get that in

2:38:46your packet for the 26th. But the only

2:38:48thing I was asking Steve and the rest of

2:38:50my board members is let's just prolong

2:38:52the moratorum

2:38:54vote or hearing for another week or two

2:38:56till we see if we got any uh

2:38:58satisfaction out of what we may vote on

2:39:01on the 26th. If we did did it just save

2:39:03a lot of heartache and a lot of people

2:39:05out here in the audience cuz you know

2:39:06that there's people passionate. I get it

2:39:09Trip. They're going to be passionate and

2:39:10they're going to be very upset u either

2:39:13way you know.

2:39:15>> Yes, sir. So

2:39:17that that would be my recommendation.

2:39:20But if the board don't see fit to do

2:39:22that, then we'll do both in one night.

2:39:27>> But but I agree they on the right track

2:39:29here.

2:39:29>> I think so.

2:39:30>> Okay. I think some good steps. I did

2:39:32have a couple other real quick call outs

2:39:34that I haven't gotten to. If I may.

2:39:36>> Absolutely. um for and and you can tell

2:39:39me uh Lee and and rest of the board too

2:39:42if this doesn't make sense or or if we

2:39:44don't even have the ability to to do

2:39:46this but are we able to restrict it

2:39:48further in terms of the zoning districts

2:39:51like or would we be able to say hey it's

2:39:53only going to be allowed in hi

2:39:57>> absolutely

2:39:58>> I mean [snorts]

2:39:59we can restriction there

2:40:02>> if it if it's a true statement from the

2:40:04institute that unless you have extreme

2:40:07circumstances to warrant a ordinance

2:40:10that pro prohibit pro prohibits the use

2:40:13which I don't think that is here and I

2:40:15think an ordinance of that that that

2:40:17prohibits the use but we would probably

2:40:19not stand up to legal challenge that's

2:40:21just these are opinions these are just

2:40:23opinions based on what I'm hearing uh if

2:40:26long as you provide a place for the use

2:40:30it's how strict or how lenient you want

2:40:32to be will be up to this board so yes if

2:40:34you want it just in hi you could do do

2:40:36it in HI if you want it in in

2:40:38>> and I'm not saying just HI was just

2:40:39saying would we have the ability to do

2:40:41that? So I think that's one thing that

2:40:42could be looked at further. The other

2:40:44question I had there were a couple um

2:40:46similar to Todd I like to do a lot of

2:40:48reading on this and I like I like

2:40:50looking at examples of other counties.

2:40:51There was one up in Virginia, um,

2:40:54Stafford County, and they actually

2:40:57require, um, I think it was 30 or 40,

2:41:00um,% of, um, basically preserved space.

2:41:06>> Okay.

2:41:06>> Because, you know, they I think my guess

2:41:08is they probably got feedback from

2:41:09constituents about some of the

2:41:11conservation pieces. [clears throat]

2:41:13Um, would that be something that we

2:41:15could look at as well?

2:41:16>> Sure. You can you could board a minimal

2:41:19to at least discuss it. a percentage of

2:41:21open space requirement as part of the

2:41:23special use permit. Okay, that that's

2:41:24something that's fairly commonly done,

2:41:26>> right? And then for the decommissioning,

2:41:29I did have a note on um like what's the

2:41:32ecological restoration look like? So, if

2:41:35they do decommission and move, do we

2:41:38need to look at like the the soil

2:41:39stabilization? Um any sort of

2:41:43regenerative native planting could that

2:41:46be in? Again, just kind of looking at it

2:41:48from if they were to leave, what happens

2:41:50to that land and do we do they need to

2:41:52improve it and get it back to its

2:41:53natural state?

2:41:55>> And and that's typically done with a a

2:41:57reclamation plan submitted at the time

2:42:00of application.

2:42:01>> That's the word I was looking for.

2:42:02>> Yeah. Yeah. That that they'll say

2:42:05the bond is this. If we quit, sorry, I

2:42:08[clears throat] got a frog. If we quit

2:42:09using the property, then the reclamation

2:42:12plan will will do this.

2:42:14>> Okay. And the standard for that can be

2:42:16set by the board.

2:42:18>> Just some ideas I've seen.

2:42:20>> No, I mean the reclamation and you're

2:42:21right about that. We need now here's

2:42:23where we need the testing or or

2:42:26a soil sampling, you know, some soil

2:42:28samples to make sure there's no

2:42:30contamination in the soil, you know.

2:42:32>> Okay. Okay. All right. I can

2:42:35>> and um

2:42:43>> okay and reclamation.

2:42:48>> Would this qualify as an to trigger an

2:42:51environmental impact review?

2:42:54>> Um

2:42:57potentially. what what is just for my

2:43:00awareness like what I guess what truly

2:43:02triggers that

2:43:03because I I I saw it in our ordinances

2:43:06but it didn't like lay out the details

2:43:08and the process around it.

2:43:10The I'm not I don't know what the

2:43:12trigger is um for a for a environmental

2:43:17impact review. the um that's something

2:43:20that DEEQ would handle and I don't know

2:43:23where the level of of threshold is to to

2:43:26trigger that and I'd be glad to look

2:43:27into that and make sure that

2:43:29>> to I'm sure it's got something to do

2:43:31with size of building the type of you

2:43:33know whether you're impacting wetlands

2:43:35or you're doing you know those types of

2:43:38what what you're building over

2:43:40>> right well and I think actually in the

2:43:41our zoning ordinance it's environmental

2:43:44assessment so I don't know if we're if

2:43:46those two are the same or they

2:43:48environmental assessment that that would

2:43:50be uh same thing. It would be something

2:43:52that they handle at DEQ.

2:43:53>> Yeah, I' I'd like a little more

2:43:55information on that just because another

2:43:56example, this is the last piece I'll

2:43:58I'll say is um Chattam County I think

2:44:01actually has uh an independent review,

2:44:05environmental review set up. And so if

2:44:07if some of the concerns with data

2:44:10centers is coming from their uh use of

2:44:13the land, this might be a way to say,

2:44:15"Hey, let's let's make sure that due

2:44:16diligence and standards are in place so

2:44:18that when one does come, they can check

2:44:20the boxes that they've they've done

2:44:21that."

2:44:22>> Well, I'm pretty sure any largecale uh

2:44:25process like, you know, Davidson

2:44:27Craraven, they they've done an

2:44:29environmental assessment on that

2:44:30property because it's a large it's a

2:44:32large project. And I think this would

2:44:34fall under those same state rules, but I

2:44:36can verify. Yeah, I'd want to know what

2:44:37it covers, too.

2:44:38>> Sure. Sure. Absolutely. That's it for

2:44:39me.

2:44:40>> And you're right. And I think there's

2:44:42one that may have looked a long time ago

2:44:44before we actually brought EDC in in uh

2:44:48in house. It was always rumored it was

2:44:51Google uh looking years ago. And

2:44:54supposedly they spent a lot of time and

2:44:56money doing their environmental

2:44:57[clears throat] research first. I mean,

2:44:59>> they want to make sure the property

2:45:01first of all is clean before they come.

2:45:03>> Sure. And now, not all developers are

2:45:06like that, I'm sure. But I mean, the big

2:45:08ones, the big players,

2:45:09>> they going to make sure they don't

2:45:11>> step in something they don't want to

2:45:13step in. So, they spent about a year

2:45:15doing their due diligence and

2:45:17environmental studies,

2:45:18>> and they have the resources to do that

2:45:20stuff. So,

2:45:23>> so, and again, I do have Google. They

2:45:25will um entertain us for a tour. They

2:45:28just couldn't do it today because uh

2:45:30they're trying to open up a new portion

2:45:33of their data center and [snorts] they

2:45:36said uh they canceled all tours. I think

2:45:38they done one about Monday and that was

2:45:40their last one till they get the new

2:45:42data center part online. But they want

2:45:43us to come up. They want to see what

2:45:45kind of want the commissioners to see

2:45:47the impact that is gave to the community

2:45:50which I hear is positive. Um, I think

2:45:53they did reduce their tax rate there

2:45:55from the money generated off the power

2:45:57plant because it's been substantial. Uh,

2:46:01no incentives, you know, they didn't

2:46:04want any incentives. Uh, so I I do think

2:46:08soon as we get a chance, we all need to

2:46:10jump up there, whether it's I mean, it's

2:46:13going to be after we vote one way or the

2:46:15other, you know. [clears throat]

2:46:16>> Where is that one located?

2:46:18>> Uh,

2:46:18>> Lenor.

2:46:19>> Lenor somewhere up that way, I think. Is

2:46:21that

2:46:21>> is it Lenor or

2:46:23>> Mayaden? Mayan.

2:46:24>> Mayadan. That's just right up there by

2:46:26Greensboro.

2:46:26>> No, Maiden.

2:46:28>> Maiden in Inaba County. Kataba.

2:46:31>> Maiden. Yeah. Not Mayadan. I get it

2:46:33mixed up. Maiden. But you know, from my

2:46:36understanding, you can drive by there

2:46:37right now if you want to drive by there.

2:46:39And maybe I'll do that this weekend and

2:46:41before we vote on something, maybe

2:46:42instead of us waiting on the tour, but

2:46:44they say you can go stand at the fence

2:46:45and you can't hear anything. you know, I

2:46:47mean, um, actually, I think city hall's

2:46:50right across the street and, um, so

2:46:53that's a pretty good size Google data

2:46:55center to go check out. And if anybody

2:46:58>> and then we would need to study the

2:47:00technology that they're using, what

2:47:01equipment they're using, so we kind of

2:47:03know what we're looking at.

2:47:05>> We go up to north, take a field trip to

2:47:07Northern Virginia, we'd be happy because

2:47:09there's a lot of Civil War battlefields

2:47:10up there. [laughter]

2:47:12>> Side trip, maybe.

2:47:14But anyhow, you you're doing this on

2:47:16October what? The 6th.

2:47:18>> The 6th is the planning board meeting.

2:47:19Uh if we can't reach consensus on the

2:47:226th, we'll hopefully wrap it up on the

2:47:2420th from planning board and then we'll

2:47:26turn it around and [clears throat] get

2:47:27it back in front of you folks by October

2:47:2926th.

2:47:30>> Can soon as you get done with it, can

2:47:31you go ahead and email us what you got?

2:47:34>> You want the planning board consensus?

2:47:36>> So we can have time to look over that

2:47:38before the

2:47:40>> Yep. We'll get that to you. That would

2:47:42be before the 20th

2:47:43>> 2 or 26th 27th whenever the only problem

2:47:46with that is if we do carry over onto

2:47:48the 20th before they get a

2:47:50recommendation it'll be the same time

2:47:52Debbie sends out her her packet. But if

2:47:55I can get it for the

2:47:56>> as soon as you can not a problem.

2:47:59>> I'd like to look over it.

2:48:01>> Yep. Not a pro.

2:48:04>> All right. Okay. Thank you folks for

2:48:05your time.

2:48:06>> Thank you.

2:48:06>> Thank you. Um motion to go into close

2:48:09session. motion.

2:48:11>> I have I have a motion to second. All in

2:48:13favor say I.

2:48:14>> If you need a little

2:48:33Heat. Heat.

2:50:16Heat.

2:50:31Heat.

2:50:38Heat. Heat.

2:55:40Heat. Heat.

2:56:03Heat. Heat.

2:58:53Heat. Heat.

3:00:02Heat.

3:00:27Heat.

3:03:27Heat. Heat.

3:08:09Heat. Heat.

3:09:28Heat. Heat.

3:12:39Heat. Heat.

3:14:34Heat. Heat.

3:14:40Heat.

3:14:57Heat.

3:15:03Heat.

3:15:20Heat.

3:18:26Heat. Heat.

3:20:15Heat. Heat.

3:21:18Heat. Heat.

3:23:43Heat. Heat.

3:29:02Heat. Heat.

3:31:16Second. Second.

3:31:17>> All in favor?

3:31:19>> Mr. John, may I have a report on close

3:31:22session?

3:31:23>> Yes. Um the uh board went into close

3:31:25session and had uh discussed one

3:31:29economic development matter and gave

3:31:31staff instructions on that and the board

3:31:33was provided an update on um one um one

3:31:38legal matter. Um that's that has been

3:31:41the the subject of of active active

3:31:46litigation. That's it.

3:31:48>> Thank you. [clears throat]

3:31:49>> Motion journ second. All in fif. I

3:31:53>> thank you. Okay.