2026-09-09 - Personnel and Finance Committee

0:00:12I'm going to call to order the uh public

0:00:14finance

0:00:16personnel finance committee meeting for

0:00:18today. Uh the first order of business

0:00:20approval of our minutes.

0:00:21>> I'll make a motion to approve the

0:00:22minutes as presented.

0:00:23>> Uh we'll second that. So, those have

0:00:25been approved. Item number two is uh

0:00:28interviews with government relations

0:00:29firms. And we will start this morning

0:00:32with New Frame Incorporated.

0:00:46>> Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, Mr. Mayor, council

0:00:48members,

0:00:50my name is Brian Lewis, and I'm the

0:00:51president of New Frame Incorporated. I'm

0:00:53here with my colleague uh who has been

0:00:56with New Frame almost from the

0:00:58beginning, Christie Jones, who I'm sure

0:01:00you know. She is a resident here in

0:01:03Thomasville, and she is a major part of

0:01:06New Frame and the lobbying work we do at

0:01:09the North Carolina General Assembly.

0:01:10We're here today

0:01:12uh to talk about the possibility of

0:01:15representing the uh town at the General

0:01:19Assembly.

0:01:20We have have experience in government

0:01:24relations that go back to, believe it or

0:01:27not, uh 1996. And if you look at my

0:01:30bald, graying hair, you could you could

0:01:32uh say, "Yeah, that checks out." Uh but

0:01:34our firm has been around since 2014.

0:01:37And we have had the privilege of

0:01:39representing municipalities in the past.

0:01:41This past session, we secured $350,000

0:01:46for the town of Jamestown.

0:01:48Uh that is to help them buy build a new

0:01:51fire station that they need. We were

0:01:53proud to get that money. And we were

0:01:56really proud to get that because we had

0:01:58an appropriation both from the house

0:02:00side and the Senate side. Uh, you know,

0:02:04sometimes we talk about politics in the

0:02:06context of Democrats and Republicans.

0:02:10Well, in the General Assembly sometimes

0:02:11that needs to be refined to say the

0:02:13House and the Senate because they don't

0:02:16always see eye to eye, but they did see

0:02:18eye to eye on this. One of the ways that

0:02:20we secured that funding, not only by

0:02:23hosting the delegation of Jamestown

0:02:26uh, to visit the needs of the fire

0:02:29station. I see here you have some

0:02:31leaders here in your fire service. Using

0:02:33them as ambassadors to legislators uh,

0:02:37is always a winner.

0:02:40Uh,

0:02:41politicians, they love police officers

0:02:43and they love firemen. My my guess is

0:02:46that that's truly what they want to be

0:02:48is a fireman or a police officer. Uh,

0:02:51so uh, we had them come do a tour

0:02:55and we were able to make the case that

0:03:00we needed a fire station. We also needed

0:03:02bathrooms and we got a small investment

0:03:05with that. Um, the way we work is by

0:03:09working hand in hand with your

0:03:10delegation. We enjoy a very close

0:03:13relationship with Senator Steve Jarvis.

0:03:16We've run a few bills with him. You may

0:03:18know that he chairs

0:03:20the deregulation committee in the

0:03:22Senate. And so we've worked with him on

0:03:24a lot of issues that deregulate

0:03:28uh, some of our small businesses

0:03:29including businesses here in Thomasville

0:03:31but across the state. My colleague

0:03:34Christie Jones works closely with

0:03:37Representative Larry Potts. I don't need

0:03:38to tell you he is a very powerful person

0:03:41as well in the General Assembly. He

0:03:43chairs the health committee. The health

0:03:45committee is one of the most dynamic

0:03:46committees in the General Assembly. And

0:03:49you say, "Well, what does that have to

0:03:50do with Thomasville?" Well,

0:03:52uh, a lot of people want to make sure

0:03:54that Representative Potts is happy with

0:03:57them. So, uh having bills go through his

0:04:00committee,

0:04:01uh it tends to open up the General

0:04:03Assembly in a positive way because he

0:04:05has a lot of levers that he can pull.

0:04:08Um we would love the opportunity uh to

0:04:11represent this wonderful town. I drove

0:04:14in and I was telling Christie on the

0:04:15drive in, uh I've been through

0:04:17Thomasville. We've had many meetings

0:04:18here, but driving through in the morning

0:04:21is quite a sight. And I know you are

0:04:23very proud of what you have done here

0:04:26for the city, and we would love to help

0:04:30you continue that. And we would love to

0:04:32take any questions, but before if you

0:04:34don't mind, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor Pro

0:04:35Tem, uh my colleague Christie Jones

0:04:38would like to make a few remarks.

0:04:41>> So,

0:04:43I know a lot of you, so and I know I

0:04:45just want to say that, you know, my

0:04:47heart is in Thomasville.

0:04:49Um we would love to represent you. Um

0:04:52I'm here every day. Uh like Brian said,

0:04:54we would love to have y'all come there.

0:04:56We would love to have the legislators

0:04:57come here to kind of walk around, see

0:04:59the needs that we have. They may not

0:05:01have toured the water plant. They may

0:05:03not know about the water needs and the

0:05:06lines and that kind of thing that you

0:05:07need. So, we would love um to have them

0:05:10come Ooh. Have them come and take a tour

0:05:13and talk with you about that. Um I do

0:05:17work very closely also with whoever the

0:05:20principal is for our firm, um the chief

0:05:23operating officer there. So, I work

0:05:26hand-in-hand with whoever the signer is

0:05:28for

0:05:29um the paperwork that we have to fill

0:05:31out because quarterly we do have

0:05:33paperwork that has to be submitted. We

0:05:35have laws we have to go by and govern

0:05:37us. So, um I would work hand-in-hand.

0:05:39I'm assuming Michael would probably be

0:05:41the one to sign if if it wasn't the

0:05:44mayor, so um I would work hand-in-hand

0:05:47to make sure all those things were done

0:05:49Um with your registrations and keeping

0:05:51us um

0:05:53in line with the statutes that the

0:05:56Secretary of State places upon us. So,

0:05:59um I would love the opportunity. Um so,

0:06:01we would take We would love to have

0:06:03questions if you have questions for us.

0:06:06Which I'm sure Doug does.

0:06:11Will you put your glasses on, sir?

0:06:17>> How how does your

0:06:19I'll ask the question

0:06:20>> Sure.

0:06:21>> Uh everybody thanks back here, but how

0:06:22does your pricing model work for our

0:06:24town actually?

0:06:25>> Yeah. So, we have

0:06:28Usually what we charge I'll I'll tell

0:06:30you what we would charge you what we

0:06:31charge Jamestown, which would be $5,000

0:06:34per month.

0:06:36And uh per We would love to

0:06:39get to work for Thomasville starting in

0:06:43December.

0:06:44The reason I say that is and

0:06:47there's a there's an election coming up

0:06:49if you if you In case you don't have a

0:06:51television, uh there is an election

0:06:53coming up. And so, after the election,

0:06:56we're going to have new leadership in

0:06:57the Senate. And the Senate, we've been

0:06:59told is going to have They're going to

0:07:01nominate their next President of the

0:07:04Senate in December.

0:07:06And that means that they are when they

0:07:08come into session in January, we've been

0:07:11told that they're also going to start

0:07:12writing the budget for 2027 starting in

0:07:16January. So, January, February, March,

0:07:20we're going to see the templates of

0:07:23how much money do we have available? How

0:07:24much are we going to put into capital

0:07:26projects? How much into transportation,

0:07:28education? All of those buckets will

0:07:30start to form in February, March. We

0:07:34would love to on that $5,000 a month

0:07:38through the end of session, we would

0:07:40love to start bringing in legislators to

0:07:43the city starting in the new year, maybe

0:07:46even sooner. So, and I'm not even

0:07:47talking about just Senator Steve Jarvis.

0:07:50I'm not talking about just

0:07:52Representative Larry Potts, but also

0:07:54appropriation chairs, big appropriation

0:07:57chairs, that can come in and see the

0:07:59needs of this city and the importance of

0:08:03Thomasville. So, it would be 5,000 per

0:08:05month. With that comes a weekly update

0:08:09from us to you about what happened this

0:08:12week, what we think's going to happen

0:08:13next week. By the way, we will also be

0:08:15in contact with you

0:08:17in real time as things develop. So,

0:08:22Christie and and I learn and by the way,

0:08:24we are 2/3 of New Frame. We also have an

0:08:26attorney on staff with us as well who

0:08:29would also be a part of this package to

0:08:32you.

0:08:33Uh you would get updates in real time

0:08:36about what is going on. Like, hey,

0:08:39Representative Potts is filing a bill,

0:08:41we need you to look at it right now and

0:08:44give us your opinion on whether this is

0:08:46positive or negative for the city. Um

0:08:50the other part that we do is we would

0:08:51love to come and you know, Christie

0:08:53lives here, but we would love to visit

0:08:55you again, maybe next time as your as

0:08:58your lobbyist at the North Carolina

0:09:00General Assembly and do presentations to

0:09:03you and the great citizens of the city

0:09:06about the work that we're doing on your

0:09:09behalf.

0:09:13>> I appreciate the presentation and

0:09:15really happy to have some some local

0:09:17folks that understand the issues here

0:09:19locally. And so, I was a little curious

0:09:21about um a little bit of the research

0:09:23that you all had done in identifying

0:09:25some of the issues here that we have in

0:09:27Thomasville and how your firm would go

0:09:28about trying to really help mitigate

0:09:31some of those problems that we're trying

0:09:32to find some regional support for.

0:09:37>> So, Christie and I um

0:09:39she sent me a list of issues that she

0:09:43believes are important to Thomasville.

0:09:45It sounds like the number one issue is a

0:09:48lot of infrastructure needs that your

0:09:51city has I keep wanting to say town city

0:09:54uh has. Uh this jives actually with what

0:09:58is going on at the General Assembly, Mr.

0:10:01Council Member. Uh right now we are

0:10:04about to enter into a budget process

0:10:06where there is going to be more

0:10:10non-recurring funds than recurring

0:10:13funds. And I know you know this concept

0:10:16because you were sitting here trying to

0:10:18write a budget and implement a budget

0:10:20that you can balance and adjust and you

0:10:24know that you can't put non-recurring

0:10:26funds to pay salaries for folks cuz that

0:10:28is just a train wreck. But right now the

0:10:31General Assembly is entering into a

0:10:33phase we are being told by Michael

0:10:35Walden at the North Carolina State he's

0:10:37an economics professor that we are going

0:10:39to have more

0:10:41non-recurring dollars available to us,

0:10:43which is the perfect way for the city to

0:10:47go in and say, "We have non-recurring

0:10:49needs." The last thing the city wants to

0:10:52be in competition with is teacher pay.

0:10:55Right? But here's the thing about

0:10:58teacher pay. Teachers they need to they

0:11:00need more money, we need to pay them

0:11:01more, but they can't have access to

0:11:04those non-recurring dollars because we

0:11:06know when you pay teachers with

0:11:07non-recurring dollars, that means you

0:11:09lay them off next year. So, we are in a

0:11:12position I believe for capital projects.

0:11:15And I would say your number one agenda

0:11:18needs to be going to the General

0:11:20Assembly and putting your earmark on

0:11:23those non-recurring dollars. Um so,

0:11:26infrastructure whether it's your uh

0:11:28wastewater treatment plants, whether

0:11:29it's It's

0:11:30your ballfields, whether it's bringing

0:11:32pickleball. We just had a conversation

0:11:34with Corey back here about pickleball

0:11:36has come to Thomasville.

0:11:37So, these are projects that we think the

0:11:41General Assembly would want to invest

0:11:43in. I don't need to tell you the city is

0:11:45positioned to be so much in the center

0:11:49here of the Triad. You service a lot of

0:11:52the citizens, not just here in Davidson

0:11:55County, but across the Triad. So,

0:11:57helping other delegations, other big

0:12:00budget writers understand that, that's

0:12:02the key.

0:12:03>> But also it would help

0:12:04by doing that what you're you're asking

0:12:06and what you're wanting done would help

0:12:08new businesses come to because you'd be

0:12:09able to expand.

0:12:13>> And new businesses that also get to

0:12:17execute these projects is also

0:12:19important, I know, to you and the folks

0:12:22here in Thomasville.

0:12:24>> I'd like to ask a question.

0:12:25Um, I'm hearing a lot about the General

0:12:27Assembly. What are your your experience

0:12:29with federal government working to

0:12:31What would your experience be with

0:12:32working to help us secure some of those

0:12:34funds, especially with uh one of the

0:12:36projects that we've particularly been

0:12:37working with um with HUD and securing

0:12:40that grant for Strickland Center.

0:12:42Um, are y'all familiar with working with

0:12:44that process and how would you all help

0:12:46with that?

0:12:47>> Yeah, and we are and we've had some very

0:12:50good conversations with our federal

0:12:52delegation. We are in the middle of a

0:12:54Senate campaign.

0:12:56So, we are losing our senior senator, uh

0:12:59Senator Thom Tillis, who's stepping

0:13:00down. Uh

0:13:02this is going to change the dynamic a

0:13:05lot. So, Senator Tillis has always been

0:13:08a reliable senator for us to go and get

0:13:11earmarks in the budget. His junior

0:13:14senator, Senator Ted Budd, who

0:13:16represents us admirably, but he does

0:13:18have a policy that he doesn't do

0:13:21earmarks in the budget. So, uh we

0:13:25believe Well, we know we we don't know

0:13:28who's going to win the election in

0:13:29November between Roy Cooper and Michael

0:13:31Whatley, but we do know this, Senator

0:13:33Ted Budd will be the senior senator from

0:13:35North Carolina. So, one of the

0:13:37conversations that we've had with his

0:13:39field staff, Kyle Bridges, who is his

0:13:42state director, said the senator might

0:13:44want to start thinking about earmarks

0:13:46because whoever wins, Michael Whatley or

0:13:49Roy Cooper, they're going to do earmarks

0:13:51and you don't want to be the politician

0:13:53that doesn't do earmarks when the other

0:13:54senator does. We also enjoy a great

0:13:57relationship with your local

0:13:59congressional delegation. Addison

0:14:01McDowell, he was a colleague of ours. He

0:14:03was a lobbyist for Blue Cross Blue

0:14:05Shield. We enjoyed working with him and

0:14:07it's it's still weird to see him up in

0:14:09Congress because he feels like a a

0:14:12normal guy,

0:14:13but we do enjoy a great relationship

0:14:15with him as well as the rest of the

0:14:16delegation. I should say this, Mr.

0:14:18Councilman, that at NewFrame

0:14:22we are non-partisan

0:14:25completely. We will work with anyone who

0:14:28is willing to work with us.

0:14:30If they want to help this city, we want

0:14:32to help them. And so, we do have

0:14:35positive relationships with them. We do

0:14:37need to have that conversation with

0:14:39Senator Budd though about earmarks.

0:14:49Absolutely. Thank you. It was an honor

0:14:51to be before you. If you have any

0:14:52questions, please let us know. Thank

0:14:54you.

0:15:21>> Good morning. I'd like to introduce you

0:15:23to Nikki Corbett. She works with Precise

0:15:25Creative based out of Greensboro.

0:15:27Um they have provided services to us for

0:15:29the last 2 years.

0:15:31Um and so she'd kind of like to go over

0:15:33what services they've been providing,

0:15:35what options there are available for us.

0:15:37Um and so I have a presentation which

0:15:38we'll put on the screen.

0:15:42>> Well, uh hello uh Mr. Mayor, uh Mayor

0:15:45Pro Tem, council and city members. Thank

0:15:48you very much for having me. Um I am

0:15:51here at the invitation of both Michael

0:15:54and Eddie to speak with you today. If I

0:15:56seem a little nervous, I've not spoken

0:15:58to a city council before, so I ask ask

0:16:00you to extend some grace.

0:16:02Um Eddie's going to pull up on the

0:16:04presentation today, so while he's doing

0:16:06that, I'll let you know a little bit

0:16:08about Precise Creative. So, we are um a

0:16:12woman-owned business, 100% uh based in

0:16:15Greensboro since 2012. So, we're coming

0:16:18up on 15 years serving Triad area

0:16:21businesses and municipalities,

0:16:24uh small and large, from startup

0:16:26businesses to corporations. So, uh and

0:16:29we've worked with also some regional and

0:16:32national brands and even a few

0:16:33international as well. So, um uh I have

0:16:36a team of both employees and

0:16:39subcontractors, everyone US-based. Uh

0:16:42so, we don't do any work outside of uh

0:16:44the US. Everyone here is US-based. So,

0:16:48um

0:16:48is is Do you have this on?

0:16:50>> We have to scroll it.

0:16:50>> Oh, okay. Understood. All right. So,

0:16:53wanted to talk to you today about what

0:16:55we've been doing so far with uh the city

0:16:58of Thomasville. Uh this month actually

0:17:00marks 2 years that we've been working

0:17:02together, so that's very exciting.

0:17:04Um we've enjoyed working with them so

0:17:06far. So, uh let's talk about what we've

0:17:09been doing. So, uh we have been helping

0:17:11to create create some branding for the

0:17:13city of Thomasville in terms of a

0:17:15cohesive look and feel to the posts,

0:17:19getting more engagement online, and

0:17:21doing more than

0:17:23announcements. Announcements are very

0:17:25important.

0:17:26Uh your citizens need to be informed

0:17:28about what's going on in the city, but

0:17:30we want your citizens to feel like

0:17:32they're really part of the community,

0:17:35and they're coming together, and people

0:17:37are spending time online, and that's a

0:17:39way where people can come together,

0:17:41certainly. Um people of different age

0:17:43groups, and so we want to appeal to all

0:17:45of those different people. So, um we

0:17:48want to inform residents, increase

0:17:50transparency. Um I'm not going to read

0:17:52through every slide. I'll hit the

0:17:53highlights. You've had a chance to read

0:17:55through the slides in advance. Uh we

0:17:57want to really want to strengthen

0:17:58community pride. And you know,

0:18:02Thomasville has a story to tell, and and

0:18:04that's what we want to do. So, if you

0:18:05can go to the next slide, Eddie. So,

0:18:07you've already uh identified the needs,

0:18:10certainly. Um we want to build a better

0:18:12Thomasville together, and that doesn't

0:18:14happen by accident. It happens on

0:18:17purpose. It happens in all of the ways

0:18:19that you communicate with your

0:18:21residents. It it it happens in all of

0:18:24the ways that they receive information.

0:18:27And so, we want to be sure to be there

0:18:29where and have a nice presence where

0:18:31they are looking for that information.

0:18:33So, we want to talk about, certainly,

0:18:36economic development, what's happening

0:18:38in the future, what's happening now,

0:18:40what do they love about Thomasville,

0:18:41what's in their hearts and souls and

0:18:43minds. And and those are the things that

0:18:45we want to help bring out in social

0:18:47media. We've had some really good

0:18:49success doing that. You can go to the

0:18:50next slide. Okay. So,

0:18:53Oh, okay. Yeah, so well, as I said, um

0:18:56we've been working together for 2 years

0:18:58now. So, how it's been working so far is

0:19:01the city staff has been, you know,

0:19:02providing us with some information.

0:19:04Wendy has been a key role in a a

0:19:07liaison, uh helping us, um you know,

0:19:10understand a little bit more about the

0:19:11city as we started working together, uh

0:19:14approving posts along the way. So, we've

0:19:16been creating planned and branded posts,

0:19:19things that look cohesive uh on all

0:19:22platforms, developing a presence on

0:19:24Instagram so we can appeal to um some

0:19:27younger generation as well.

0:19:29as well. So, um the next opportunity

0:19:32here is to really bring the streams

0:19:35together between what the city is doing

0:19:37um internally and what we're doing um

0:19:40externally to bring that together

0:19:43cohesively. So, next slide. So, um your

0:19:47So, your city's communication

0:19:49communication does serve multiple needs,

0:19:51okay? So, again, announcements are very

0:19:54important. People need to know if

0:19:55there's a road closure, if there's an

0:19:57event coming up. Um at the same time,

0:20:00people There's a lot of people that live

0:20:02here that don't know the history. Even

0:20:04if they've been here all their lives,

0:20:06they might may not know all the little

0:20:07stories within their community that

0:20:10really is the glue that holds us

0:20:12together and you know, builds the

0:20:14foundation of who Thomasville is and

0:20:17what you're all about. So, we want to

0:20:19tell those stories, uh take the time to

0:20:21do the research. Um we we want to, you

0:20:25know, help create engagement online so

0:20:28that people of different generations can

0:20:30create that um you know, that those

0:20:33ties, those those city ties together.

0:20:36Uh so, next slide. Okay. So, um what

0:20:40this content does for the city is helps

0:20:43resident understand their local

0:20:44government, of course.

0:20:46We want to introduce uh the people

0:20:48behind the city services. You know, you

0:20:50drive down and you see it the road and

0:20:52see a crew working and, you know, it's

0:20:54it it might be an annoyance that they're

0:20:56in your way on your morning commute, but

0:20:58those are real people in your community

0:21:00serving your community every day, day in

0:21:02and day out. And they have stories to

0:21:04tell, too, and we want to be able to

0:21:06tell those stories and and show the

0:21:08humanity behind the city. So, uh we want

0:21:11to promote obviously facility city

0:21:13facilities and programs and resources,

0:21:16create positive points of connection

0:21:20with your city, with your residents, and

0:21:23between the city and residents.

0:21:26Um we we want to be able to make sure

0:21:28that we're having those positive points.

0:21:30Strengthen the community identity and

0:21:32pride, very important. That's something

0:21:34that never gets old.

0:21:36And make city channels and city

0:21:38officials more approachable, okay? So,

0:21:41we might do a feature on, you know, the

0:21:44the city manager and deputy manager

0:21:46from, you know, on occasion if they if

0:21:48they let us.

0:21:51And and show the humanity behind, you

0:21:53know, the people that they see in in uh

0:21:56city offices and and working on the

0:21:58street. So, you can go ahead, next

0:21:59slide. Okay, so I want to show a little

0:22:01bit of data here. I'm not going to bore

0:22:02you with the data. We're going to kind

0:22:03of skim through it a little quickly, but

0:22:05this shows um and and I could only go

0:22:08far as far back as March of 2025, so I

0:22:10couldn't go back any earlier than that.

0:22:12But you can see the growth in social

0:22:14media followers, and that big uh rise

0:22:18that you see was when the venerable

0:22:20monks came and Wendy did a lot of live

0:22:23videos and things like that. That really

0:22:26drove up the that event in itself drove

0:22:29up a lot of your followers, and you can

0:22:31see that we've continued to increase

0:22:33that steadily since then. So, we've

0:22:35capitalized. There wasn't a rise and a

0:22:37dip after that. It was a rise and a

0:22:40continued growth that shows that people

0:22:42are interested. So, next slide real

0:22:44quick. Okay, so again, not going to bore

0:22:46you with a lot of data here. I do want

0:22:48to point out that um

0:22:51again, at the top right, you see that

0:22:52little spike where we had the venerable

0:22:54monks,

0:22:55um all those posts that went out. So, uh

0:22:58reels and video are the the important

0:23:00things that are really untapped, uh and

0:23:03we have huge opportunities to engage

0:23:05especially younger people and really

0:23:07people of any age. We all like videos

0:23:09and and things like that, right? We're

0:23:10all humans.

0:23:11Um a lot of your followers are women in

0:23:13the 35 to 65 plus range, so that's

0:23:16really important. Lot of men, too, but

0:23:18there's more uh certainly more women in

0:23:20that category on social media. And one

0:23:23really important thing on the bottom

0:23:24right that I would love to point out is

0:23:2650% of your followers are from outside

0:23:28of Thomasville.

0:23:30Huge opportunity. That's a big number.

0:23:33And that means that people outside of

0:23:34Thomasville are interested in

0:23:36Thomasville. And you know, we'd love to

0:23:38show them reasons to come here and play

0:23:40here and maybe work here and stay here

0:23:42and maybe move here, you know,

0:23:44permanently. So, that's a huge

0:23:46opportunity there.

0:23:48Eddie. Um okay, again views by content

0:23:51type. Uh people love photos, people love

0:23:54content about people, not just things,

0:23:57but the people that behind the history,

0:23:59the people that work in the offices.

0:24:01People respond to people. We're all

0:24:03human beings. So, that's something that

0:24:05we want to point out as well.

0:24:06>> Next slide.

0:24:08>> Um real quick here, uh just again reels

0:24:11and photos are things that get more

0:24:14interaction than other static posts. And

0:24:18certainly

0:24:19um the bottom section there shows what

0:24:21some things that people are interested

0:24:23in. Shopping, trains. We have a train

0:24:25that comes right through Thomasville. Um

0:24:27holidays, travel plans. So, just a few

0:24:29things that people have other interests

0:24:31in that uh would um be cohesive with the

0:24:34city of Thomasville.

0:24:35>> Next slide.

0:24:36>> Okay, uh I think this is the last data

0:24:38slide here. So, again this is a little

0:24:41bit on Instagram showing um 62.8%

0:24:44um are women following, 37.2 men. Um lot

0:24:48of activity there.

0:24:50Uh you know, we're community-focused,

0:24:52employing history content perform

0:24:54consistently well on Instagram as well.

0:24:57So, Instagram is something we've just

0:24:59started working on in the past few

0:25:01years. You did not have an Instagram

0:25:02presence before, and we've been able to

0:25:04start building that, and we want to

0:25:06capitalize that further in the next 6 to

0:25:0912 months.

0:25:10Okay. So, what we have learned, again,

0:25:14real people

0:25:15and recognizable places makes government

0:25:17feel more accessible. That you're not

0:25:20just some, you know, conglomerate that's

0:25:23unreachable. You are accessible, and we

0:25:26want to make sure that the residents

0:25:27feel that way, and that they can

0:25:29interact with the content and feel like

0:25:31they are part of the city and part of

0:25:33the the fiber that holds us together

0:25:36here in Thomasville.

0:25:38Consistency builds recognition

0:25:40for the city over time, not just with

0:25:42your residents, we've learned, with

0:25:44people outside of your community as

0:25:45well, that may be interested in coming

0:25:48and visiting and working and playing.

0:25:52So,

0:25:54what the current model has taught us,

0:25:55certainly, is when multiple contributors

0:25:57post independently, sometimes even great

0:26:00content can vary in appearance, timing,

0:26:02and platform strategy. So, we really

0:26:04want to be more cohesive.

0:26:06We want to create a unified calendar, a

0:26:08visual system that can make all city

0:26:10communications easier to recognize and

0:26:13to navigate.

0:26:15And we want to be sure that we have

0:26:16clear roles so we reduce duplications,

0:26:18we're not doing things on top of each

0:26:20other. We really want to work as a

0:26:21cohesive unit.

0:26:25So, a little bit about the difference

0:26:27between Facebook and Instagram. They

0:26:28both have different jobs, certainly. So,

0:26:30primarily, Facebook serves residents and

0:26:33established followers.

0:26:35With Facebook, we want to create posts

0:26:38with news and information, community

0:26:40conversations, memories, and the things

0:26:43that that bind us together.

0:26:46Support engagement with people. On the

0:26:48Instagram side, we want to create and

0:26:51expand more visual discovery about your

0:26:54city. Instagram is very much more visual

0:26:57focused. Photography reels, great ways

0:27:00for your city to be discovered, not just

0:27:02by your residents, but people outside

0:27:04the community as well. We want them to

0:27:06come, right? And and play and work and

0:27:09stay and eat and spend their money here,

0:27:10too. So, and it helps the new audiences

0:27:13picture themselves doing those things

0:27:15within your community.

0:27:17Okay.

0:27:18So, um as I said before, Thomasville has

0:27:22a distinctive story to tell. Thomasville

0:27:24should look and feel unmistakably like

0:27:27Thomasville, okay? We have the big

0:27:29chair, we have the clock tower, we have

0:27:31just beautiful landmarks within the city

0:27:34that tell the story and set the vibe for

0:27:37the community. And there's so much more

0:27:39than that. There's the local history,

0:27:40there's the beautiful architecture of

0:27:42the buildings, there's parks and rec,

0:27:44events going on, um

0:27:46the trains and railroad heritage. I

0:27:49mean, that's just a living, breathing

0:27:51part of your community, and there's a

0:27:53lot of train people out there. So, we

0:27:55can tell that story as well.

0:27:58So, the next step, again, as I

0:28:00mentioned, is a more unified system. I'm

0:28:03creating a unified editorial calendar,

0:28:06uh consistent and recognizable city

0:28:08identity across everything that's on our

0:28:10social media. So, when people look at a

0:28:12social media post, um they don't even

0:28:15have to see the city logo to know that

0:28:17this is Thomasville, okay? We want them

0:28:19to have that recognition. More original

0:28:22photography and video. We want to catch

0:28:25people in action, as they're

0:28:27comfortable, of course. Uh we want to uh

0:28:30show tell the story about what's going

0:28:32on in the city today, tomorrow, what's

0:28:34coming in the future. So, we want to

0:28:35tell more of those stories. Uh plan

0:28:38coverage of different departments,

0:28:39projects, and events, and consistent uh

0:28:42scheduling and measurement of results.

0:28:46So,

0:28:47uh so I want to talk a little bit about

0:28:50what photography video would look like

0:28:53because right now we are creating about

0:28:56three posts a week for social media for

0:28:58Thomasville in partnership with Wendy

0:29:00and and we've been working well together

0:29:03certainly. So, we'd like to expand that

0:29:05with some photography and video coverage

0:29:07on a regular basis. I have two options

0:29:10that we'll talk about in a couple more

0:29:12slides. So, monthly or quarterly. So,

0:29:15what that looks like is one visit two or

0:29:17three hours within the community. A

0:29:19planned visit with a planned shot list

0:29:21and who we're going to talk to and what

0:29:23we're going to do and maybe capture some

0:29:26accidental things that we weren't

0:29:27planning on while we're here.

0:29:29One visit two to three hours on site in

0:29:31the city of Thomasville can create weeks

0:29:34of content. It can be a city project

0:29:36update. It can be a quick impromptu

0:29:38employee interview. Catching someone at

0:29:42work during the day on the job. Catching

0:29:44people in action. Evergreen photographs

0:29:48for future announcements. We'll be

0:29:49capturing capturing some evergreen

0:29:51material that we can use down the road

0:29:53as well that are not, you know, date

0:29:55sensitive.

0:29:56Short public service explanations.

0:29:58Seasonal downtown photography. You guys

0:30:00do such a good job of decorating your

0:30:02city for all seasons and so we want to

0:30:04showcase that as well.

0:30:07Again,

0:30:09you know, regarding a visit creates

0:30:11weeks of content. We can talk about how

0:30:13the city works. Department facility

0:30:15impromptu tours. Frequently asked

0:30:17questions.

0:30:19You know, we can talk to someone on the

0:30:21job and you know, what questions do you

0:30:23get asked a lot and they can answer it

0:30:24right on the spot.

0:30:26One minute with this employee.

0:30:29Behind the scenes public service and

0:30:30your city at work type type type of

0:30:33posts. So, those are some things that we

0:30:35would like to begin creating more of

0:30:37with you with, you know, access to on

0:30:40site photography and video. Spending

0:30:42that time here with you. So again, we

0:30:43want to support a city that is a great

0:30:46place to live, work, play, and

0:30:49especially for those that 50% that's

0:30:53interested in following Facebook and

0:30:55social media from outside your visit, I

0:30:57mean outside of your city, we want

0:30:59Thomasville to be a place where they can

0:31:00visit and return and maybe even decide

0:31:04to stay and move here. So those are the

0:31:05things that we'd like to accomplish with

0:31:07social media. So

0:31:10um one coordinated communication team

0:31:12here. So we want to have a workflow that

0:31:15works,

0:31:16uh coordinated together. So uh what

0:31:19would we we would be working on would

0:31:21still involve city review and approval.

0:31:23So you know, nothing would go out with

0:31:25without city approval and and we do want

0:31:27to respect that process. Public

0:31:29communication and reporting. Certainly

0:31:32um city and staff leadership can help

0:31:34identify needs and priorities that are

0:31:36coming up. We can have quarterly

0:31:38meetings so we can uh so we can know

0:31:40what's coming up in Thomasville and what

0:31:42we can be prepared to cover in the

0:31:45coming months. On the Precise Creative

0:31:47side, we will develop editorial strategy

0:31:50and calendar, write, design, and

0:31:52schedule content, will capture and edit

0:31:55original photography and video, maintain

0:31:58brand and platform consistency, and

0:32:00monitor the results along the way and

0:32:02report those so that we can be

0:32:04transparent in in what we're seeing

0:32:06happening.

0:32:07Okay. So um I think we just have one or

0:32:10two slides left here. So accountability

0:32:12does include clear roles. We want to be

0:32:14sure that we have an a designated

0:32:16internal city liaison, which we already

0:32:18have through Wendy.

0:32:20Um responsibilities are documented, no

0:32:22unnecessary duplication of work. So we

0:32:25want to, you know, be able to make sure

0:32:27that we're doing that. Plus you want to

0:32:28make sure that everything we're doing is

0:32:30accessible. So we want to make sure that

0:32:32videos are captioned so that, you know,

0:32:35anyone who's hearing impaired can

0:32:37understand what's going on as well. We

0:32:39want to make sure that the graphics are

0:32:41plain and readable uh for people who are

0:32:43color blind. We don't have blue against

0:32:45green and, you know, things like that

0:32:46that that might be difficult for them.

0:32:49Uh plain language communication, we want

0:32:51to make sure we're using camel ca- camel

0:32:53case hashtags rather than all lower

0:32:55case. That's very important for

0:32:56accessibility as well. So, we want to

0:32:58pay attention to those details.

0:33:01And so, this is the last slide here. So,

0:33:03we have three paths forward. Uh so, we

0:33:06can maintain as it is what we're doing

0:33:08right now, three posts a week, and

0:33:10continuing to work as we are with the

0:33:11city, which has been successful for the

0:33:13past 2 years as you've seen. Uh the two

0:33:15options that we're talking about are um

0:33:18a quarterly expansion or a monthly

0:33:20partnership. We certainly recommend the

0:33:22monthly versus the quarterly. So, the um

0:33:25the quarterly would be quarterly visits

0:33:27out here to the city. We would plan

0:33:29those um with with our city liaison in

0:33:33terms of, you know, what's going on, and

0:33:35we would have a more active role in in

0:33:36planning and the content and shooting

0:33:38and all of that as well. A monthly

0:33:40partnership is really what we

0:33:42we would recommend so that we're here

0:33:45once a month, and we're not waiting

0:33:47every 3 months to come out, and we're

0:33:49getting more a broader editorial

0:33:51planning, more video, greater

0:33:54announcement and informational support.

0:33:58So, I ask if you have any questions.

0:34:01And thank you for your time.

0:34:03>> Thank you.

0:34:03>> Thank you.

0:34:04>> So,

0:34:06what is staff asking of us with this? Is

0:34:07this an increase in in

0:34:09>> If if you if we the maintain as is

0:34:12pretty much keeps the cost as is.

0:34:15Um it's a question of whether you want

0:34:17us whether you feel that is enough,

0:34:20or whether you want to see more.

0:34:22And do you want to see more

0:34:24like significantly more, which would be

0:34:26the monthly option, or

0:34:29just a

0:34:30a ramping up, which would be the middle

0:34:33option.

0:34:34>> Thank you, David. have a copy of

0:34:36proposal for pricing. You're welcome to

0:34:38pass out.

0:34:38>> Yes.

0:34:39>> And I asked her to bring that out that

0:34:40way you have time to review it, think

0:34:42about it, and it's something for

0:34:43long-term consideration. It doesn't have

0:34:45to be decided today.

0:34:46>> Sure.

0:34:46>> Um one thing that I I kudos to them. One

0:34:49of the things they have brought um into

0:34:53the city that we didn't have was

0:34:55consistent branding of the posts. So

0:34:56when you see their posts, you're going

0:34:58to see them the same color, same font,

0:35:01same types of motives

0:35:03or boutiques, however you want to say

0:35:04it.

0:35:05Um they've done a great job of

0:35:07showcasing our leadership Thomasville.

0:35:08So when you saw all the leadership

0:35:10Thomasville posts, it was like, "Tell me

0:35:11three things about this employee." Um

0:35:15they were the ones managing those

0:35:17particular posts. Where it's been

0:35:18important for us is that over the last 4

0:35:21years we've done two employee surveys.

0:35:23One of the things that was extremely

0:35:25high on the very first year was citizen

0:35:26incivility. And so as an effort, the

0:35:29reason social media was even broached

0:35:31was if we're not telling our story,

0:35:33someone else is. Social media continues

0:35:36to tell our story.

0:35:37>> Right.

0:35:37>> And I had spoke with her 30 minutes

0:35:39yesterday and complained and said he's

0:35:40going to social media.

0:35:42Um just so he can be with all the other

0:35:43naysayers. And so what's happening, it's

0:35:46terrible to say, but what's actually

0:35:48what's occurring in our community is

0:35:49there's a lot of people saying all the

0:35:51negative things. Well, that increases

0:35:52citizen incivility and is a direct

0:35:55result and affects our employees

0:35:56directly. And so from the first employee

0:36:00survey till the second employee survey,

0:36:02we have saw a reduction in citizen

0:36:04incivility. It does still remain high.

0:36:06We know that it's an issue, but the goal

0:36:08was is to humanize the employee

0:36:10experience and say the same person

0:36:13you're mad about because your water's

0:36:15cut off is a real person who has a

0:36:17family that lives in this community or

0:36:19not.

0:36:19>> Mhm.

0:36:20>> And so kudos to them and also for Wendy

0:36:22for that effort to humanize our

0:36:24employees and address the work

0:36:26incivility and citizen instability to

0:36:28earn in money.

0:36:29>> And people have more in common than than

0:36:32they think, certainly. And I will say

0:36:33that every city, every municipality has

0:36:36incivility issues. That's not good

0:36:39That's not escapable.

0:36:41Um one thing I want to mention, you

0:36:42know, there's two options there in terms

0:36:44of pricing. I do want to say that I and

0:36:47my team are fully aware that everything

0:36:49we do is supported by taxpayer dollars,

0:36:53and we take that seriously. We There's

0:36:55not a dollar that we spend that does is

0:36:58not under close scrutiny. take that

0:37:00seriously. I know you can look at these

0:37:02numbers, and you can say, "Hmm, uh we

0:37:04can probably hire, you know, someone 34

0:37:07at 40 hours a week for that, you know?"

0:37:10Um and and And let me make the case for

0:37:12a moment on hiring an agency versus

0:37:15bringing on some bring bringing someone

0:37:17onto your team as a staffer. So, uh

0:37:20number one, you get a team versus one

0:37:24person with a particular set of skills.

0:37:26You have a team in your back pocket. We

0:37:29have all skills at all levels.

0:37:32Um you know, between all of us, you

0:37:34know, 100 or more years of experience.

0:37:36Our agency has been successful and tried

0:37:38for 15 years.

0:37:40Um

0:37:41so, in addition to that, uh

0:37:44you know, you don't have to hire someone

0:37:46necessarily. Then you have to worry

0:37:47about vacation, sick time, PTO, uh

0:37:51benefits, and all and carrying all of

0:37:53that. In addition, you don't have to

0:37:55worry about purchasing, managing,

0:37:58maintaining equipment,

0:38:00uh insuring that equipment, uh housing

0:38:03it, securing it somewhere,

0:38:05uh checking in, checking out, all of

0:38:07that management. You don't have to

0:38:08manage that person. So, we have a team

0:38:11that whether, you know, if someone's on

0:38:13vacation, there's someone else that can

0:38:15step in. So, there's no, um you know,

0:38:18gap in the cadence in in messaging and

0:38:21management at all. We are, you know, 365

0:38:25days a year at your disposal. And I

0:38:28think Eddie and Michael and Wendy have

0:38:30experienced that even on the weekends if

0:38:32something needs to be touched, it will

0:38:35be taken care of ASAP. That's very

0:38:38important to us. So, I wanted to state

0:38:40that for you.

0:38:41>> What what the the plan we're on now?

0:38:47>> Do you have the information that you

0:38:48need? I don't have

0:38:48>> It's 1,200 a month.

0:38:51>> Now, is this a rolling plan from month

0:38:52to month or just a yearly contract?

0:38:55>> So, that's a very good question. Thank

0:38:57you, Mr. Council member. So,

0:39:00at Precise Creative, we do not

0:39:04bind our clients to annual contracts. We

0:39:07don't believe in that. So, this we give

0:39:10our clients at any point in time a

0:39:1230-day opt-out if they're not happy with

0:39:14us, if they want to change things. We

0:39:16can, you know, be adjustable that way.

0:39:20We firmly believe that if we're not

0:39:22earning your business every day that we

0:39:23don't deserve it. So, we don't sit on

0:39:25our laurels behind, you know, a 12-month

0:39:27contract. We don't do that. Our clients,

0:39:29every one of them has a 30-day opt-out

0:39:31for any reason whatsoever.

0:39:35>> Any questions from council?

0:39:41>> Put this in perspective.

0:39:43I did a quick math for you.

0:39:45Uh

0:39:46the level the medium level the quarterly

0:39:49package would be $25,500

0:39:52more than we currently pay. So,

0:39:54it's a total of $39,900.

0:39:57We currently pay 14,400.

0:40:00And then the uh

0:40:02uh

0:40:03monthly meeting would be $52,200

0:40:05for the year. So, that's

0:40:0940 30,000

0:40:11more if I do my math

0:40:13>> And that would be taking on a a more of

0:40:15the responsibility, a lot more of the

0:40:17posting and management. That that

0:40:19includes our time on site. That includes

0:40:22you know, video editing of all of the

0:40:24content that we receive. So, that takes

0:40:27quite a bit of time.

0:40:29A 30-second video takes 60 to 90 minutes

0:40:32to edit and get that prepared to be

0:40:35online, music selection, anything like

0:40:37that. So, it does take quite a bit of

0:40:39time to do that.

0:40:41And do it properly.

0:40:46>> Other than the

0:40:47fact that you can see how many people

0:40:49have viewed something, is there any way

0:40:50to track the investment that we get

0:40:52return on?

0:40:54As far as getting from from the from the

0:40:56post

0:40:57any way to see the investment what we

0:40:59get back from it?

0:41:00>> Right, I understand. So,

0:41:02I would say, you know, as a municipality

0:41:05rather than a business, it might be a

0:41:06little bit harder to measure that. Where

0:41:08we measure that typically is in

0:41:11engagement on post. So, we're seeing

0:41:13overwhelmingly positive engagement.

0:41:16Um, I think one of the most popular post

0:41:18we put out this year and I forget the

0:41:19gentleman's name. Wendy might remember.

0:41:21He was a football player with the

0:41:22Arizona Cardinals.

0:41:25I think. Yeah, that was super popular.

0:41:28Um, I think that had like, you know, a

0:41:30couple hundred

0:41:33I don't know

0:41:34in the hundreds likes and shares and

0:41:35things like that. So, we're seeing like

0:41:38we're seeing your residents discover

0:41:41more about their community that they

0:41:43didn't know. Or bring things up from the

0:41:45past that they can

0:41:48they can comment and say, "Yeah, my my

0:41:50father worked there." Or my grandfather

0:41:52or

0:41:54people are overwhelmingly engaging on

0:41:57social media telling their own stories

0:41:59alongside of the city stories. They're

0:42:02communicating back and forth and that's

0:42:05been an exciting momentum to see. We

0:42:08want to keep that momentum going and

0:42:10growing. We also want to create content

0:42:13that's going to appear appeal to a

0:42:16younger generation as well. We need to

0:42:18want to consider them cuz those are your

0:42:20upcoming people that are going to be

0:42:22involved in community leadership and we

0:42:24want to be sure that we're including

0:42:26them and appealing to them as well. So,

0:42:28bringing the generations together under

0:42:30one social media roof.

0:42:33>> Open up mission to your point. So, one

0:42:34way communities measure their reach for

0:42:37advertising is they decide they're going

0:42:39to target a particular community and I

0:42:41heard of one town in the country that

0:42:44targeted people in like some Las Vegas

0:42:47community that they were trying to get

0:42:49those folks to visit their town. I don't

0:42:51recall the towns.

0:42:53But, they could see that afterwards

0:42:55using the Visa data, they could see that

0:42:58oh, we actually had people we targeted

0:43:00advertisement through tourism to this

0:43:02particular community that we wanted to

0:43:04see in Thomasville. And then you could

0:43:06look at the Visa data and say oh, these

0:43:07people that lived in this other

0:43:09community were actually spending their

0:43:11money here. So, there's there's a return

0:43:13on the investment.

0:43:14>> Right.

0:43:14>> more challenging on the social media

0:43:16side. Some communities do targeted

0:43:18advertising to bring people in,

0:43:20but traditionally not through social

0:43:22media.

0:43:22>> Yeah. So, we we we definitely want to

0:43:24bring people from outside the city in.

0:43:26We want to communi- communicate and

0:43:28support the the ties that bind us here

0:43:31within Thomasville and certainly there

0:43:33are other communities and

0:43:35tri-communities that are investing in

0:43:37their social media and doing more in

0:43:39that environment and it is paying off

0:43:41for them and we certainly don't want

0:43:42Thomasville to, you know, be left behind

0:43:45or anything like that. So, we want to

0:43:47keep you guys on the forefront cuz

0:43:49there's a lot to love here once you get

0:43:52here.

0:43:54>> So, are you guys looking for an answer

0:43:56right now on what council would prefer?

0:43:59I mean, we don't need to have an answer

0:44:00today. I will tell you that

0:44:03if you chose to go with the increased

0:44:05amount, we'd have to

0:44:07find funding and that funding would more

0:44:09than likely come from contingency

0:44:11because that's where

0:44:12what we have available to us. Um and the

0:44:15the other option is to

0:44:18either put it on the back back burner

0:44:19discuss again at the future retreat

0:44:21coming up and build it into next year's

0:44:23budget. So, we stay as we are this year

0:44:25and then

0:44:27pick it up in July.

0:44:28That would be my recommendation.

0:44:32Think about our tax situation.

0:44:35So,

0:44:36but you like you like what we're doing?

0:44:38>> Yeah.

0:44:39>> Like what they're doing?

0:44:39>> Yes.

0:44:40>> Um keep doing it and then revisit it

0:44:44kind of from the retreat and plan for

0:44:47next year.

0:44:48>> Yes.

0:44:48>> Yes. And and but definitely keep in mind

0:44:50that what we're talking about with

0:44:51council for next year with increasing

0:44:53that engagement with all platforms, not

0:44:56just Facebook and Instagram, but also

0:44:58LinkedIn and exploring some of those

0:45:00other options.

0:45:01>> We'd be happy to expand there as well,

0:45:02yes.

0:45:04>> All right, thank you.

0:45:05>> Thank you for your time. I appreciate

0:45:06it.

0:45:06>> Thank you so much.

0:45:07>> Thank you.

0:45:12>> All right, we'll move on to item number

0:45:14four which is approval of the revised

0:45:17cash handling policy to address new

0:45:19state law requirements. I'll recognize

0:45:21our city manager.

0:45:24>> Thank you.

0:45:28The federal government stopped

0:45:31the federal government stopped producing

0:45:33pennies last year and

0:45:35and that caused a crisis

0:45:38in everyone's mind at least it did.

0:45:40Uh the pennies were were were not

0:45:41around.

0:45:42Uh so, we had adopted a policy that

0:45:47allowed for the city to round up

0:45:50for all transactions that that dealt

0:45:52with cash

0:45:55that also involved pennies is

0:50:13>> style uh whoa

0:50:15surface um

0:50:16that is um within

0:50:19Doke Park and Memorial or excuse me,

0:50:21Myers Park right now. Um so um

0:50:24that's what we're seeking your guidance

0:50:26on.

0:50:27>> Corey, you said this has been down for

0:50:2914 years?

0:50:30>> Yes.

0:50:31>> Okay.

0:50:34>> And one thing that we're identifying and

0:50:35we were able to do and we will continue

0:50:37to do uh the park so with the Children

0:50:40at Play initiative in 2012 was a great

0:50:42thing for our community, but it also

0:50:43added all the playgrounds at the same

0:50:45time. Um so we're looking at the wear

0:50:47and tear of those I

0:50:49different units. Um working with the

0:50:51company that installed those uh units to

0:50:55you'll see the slides. There's a there's

0:50:57a triple slide that's within some of

0:50:59your pictures in your packet. Um and

0:51:02that was an item that we were able to

0:51:05um

0:51:06get warranted. It had already cracked

0:51:08and so we were able to get that for free

0:51:10uh through our warranty and we're

0:51:12continuing to do that to get the

0:51:13longevity out of our units. Um there's a

0:51:16couple platforms that are wearing a

0:51:17little bit here uh at Doke Park's

0:51:21playground, but it's not something that

0:51:22you would think would undermine

0:51:25the the need to go ahead and do the

0:51:26surface. I think you still have a a

0:51:28while out of the unit. Uh it's more

0:51:31about the surfacing and um it's starting

0:51:33to really deteriorate.

0:51:35>> I I look at this as park maintenance.

0:51:38Yeah, that

0:51:39needs to be done.

0:51:40>> Yeah.

0:51:41>> Yeah, that is the double-edged sword of

0:51:42the PIP and the turf style surfaces.

0:51:44It's not mulch, but it is safer, more

0:51:48accessible, and it and it is a

0:51:49maintenance benefit to it over time.

0:51:54You're looking at 15 to 20 years. You

0:51:56get about a

0:51:575 to 10-year warranty. I'd have to

0:51:59confirm that. Um the good thing about

0:52:01Bars Recreation is they've had they've

0:52:03added some of our um newer amenities,

0:52:05and when we've had some issues even with

0:52:07the shelter that we put up at Central

0:52:08Recreation Center, their staff were

0:52:10there within 2 or 3 days rectifying the

0:52:12bolts and things that had dropped and

0:52:13fixed it. Um uh so they're local in

0:52:16North Carolina. They're easily

0:52:18accessible to come replace some of these

0:52:19things. Uh when you get normal wear,

0:52:22there's things with that you can do It's

0:52:24like a

0:52:27a some type of product makes it gluey,

0:52:29and then you put it back down. So, you

0:52:31can patch this some, but if

0:52:34you take a ride down there, you'll see

0:52:35that it is starting to go beyond And it

0:52:38it it does feel very

0:52:40bouncy. Uh and it shouldn't. It should

0:52:42There's some cushion to it, but it's not

0:52:44supposed to be as um

0:52:46worn out.

0:52:49Yes, so we're going to take a good look

0:52:51at that and figure out I've obviously

0:52:52it's on a slope uh and it's a gravel

0:52:54base for your aggregate, and then it's a

0:52:57um just a black pour-in-place, and then

0:53:00on top of that is where you add your top

0:53:02layer or your final layer. Um but there

0:53:04is some concern that we're going to look

0:53:06at uh to figure out what and how we

0:53:10think that that is getting out uh and

0:53:12underneath that grout. Cuz basically

0:53:13what you probably have is some wash of

0:53:15concrete underneath that is causing the

0:53:18areas that are um feeling unstable.

0:53:23This was a recreation reserve item built

0:53:25into the budget. So, this was an item

0:53:27that was

0:53:29um within the budget cycle. That was

0:53:32part of the recreation reserve funding.

0:53:34>> Any other questions?

0:53:36>> I'll ask for

0:53:37>> motion to briefing.

0:53:39>> I'll second that.

0:53:40>> It's been

0:53:41briefed and done.

0:53:45I think I need to check and see what

0:53:47what his policy is today.

0:53:48It's um

0:53:50if you want, we could probably take the

0:53:51Verizon contract number 12.

0:53:53>> Yep, let's do it.

0:53:54Jumping down to number 12.

0:54:05This is consideration of approval of the

0:54:07Verizon wireless contract.

0:54:10>> Good morning, Council.

0:54:11>> Good morning.

0:54:12>> Um so, this is a proposal to extend the

0:54:15current contract that's in place.

0:54:17Um this will expire September 15th of

0:54:192030. So, we do have a couple of years

0:54:21left on this. Um one noticeable

0:54:23difference between this one uh Verizon

0:54:25has

0:54:27asked that we actually start it at less

0:54:29than what we're going to end with.

0:54:31So, right now um it's going to end at

0:54:33$38,000 per year in that year 2030.

0:54:37They're wanting to start the next

0:54:38contract at 36,000.

0:54:41There are some differences of of opinion

0:54:43based on that and the contractor that we

0:54:44use, which is Linker uh Communication

0:54:46Services, who does all of our tower

0:54:48maintenance and tower consulting work.

0:54:50Um Verizon is starting to put up a lot

0:54:51of micro sites versus a macro. They

0:54:54consider this a macro site being up on

0:54:56top of the water tower. That's where

0:54:57this one sits at.

0:54:59Um and they're using smaller style cell

0:55:02sites. So, basically what this would do

0:55:04um

0:55:05this would just secure our

0:55:08land lease, I guess you could say, for

0:55:10that tower site. Um right now, if we

0:55:12continued the contract that we have

0:55:15um over a 10-year extension, it would be

0:55:17$416,000.

0:55:20If we accept their contract, it would be

0:55:21$412,000.

0:55:23So, I mean, it's only $6,000.

0:55:26I'm sorry, $4,000 difference.

0:55:28Um but, that's what they have come up

0:55:30with um

0:55:32and that's at your

0:55:34discussion or if you have any questions

0:55:37that I can possibly answer.

0:55:38>> I'm just dropping it if we don't So,

0:55:40they consider this a yellow site. They

0:55:42have green, yellow, and red. Red, they

0:55:44really don't care about. Yellow,

0:55:46and then green, they're definitely going

0:55:47to go after because of the customer

0:55:48base. So, they consider it a yellow, but

0:55:50they haven't said yes, we will drop it

0:55:52if we don't agree to this.

0:55:55But, that just comes back with, you

0:55:57know, whatever y'all want to do.

0:55:58>> Okay.

0:56:00>> Questions?

0:56:02>> Then I will defer to

0:56:04>> Make a motion to move to briefing.

0:56:05>> All right, I will second.

0:56:07>> Okay, that has been

0:56:08moved to briefing.

0:56:11Were you able to check in?

0:56:13>> I was 20 minutes behind. I'd be here at

0:56:159:45. I asked if that was okay. I told

0:56:17him we'd work around the schedule.

0:56:18>> That's fine.

0:56:19Um

0:56:20Do you want to

0:56:21Do y'all want to jump down to 15 and

0:56:24handle it?

0:56:26Yep. Okay.

0:56:27Chief Carter, we're going to go ahead

0:56:29and and move forward with item number

0:56:3115, consideration of approval resolution

0:56:34awarding badge and service weapon to

0:56:35retiring law enforcement officer.

0:56:53>> Good morning, Mayor and Council.

0:56:54Hope everyone's well this morning.

0:56:57Um so, before you is a resolution

0:56:59regarding the upcoming retirement of

0:57:00Captain Brad Saintsing

0:57:02following more than 29 years of service

0:57:04with Thomasville Police Department.

0:57:06Uh North Carolina General Statute

0:57:0720-187.2

0:57:10provides for a retiring law enforcement

0:57:11officer to receive the badge worn during

0:57:13his service and allows the governing

0:57:14body, at its discretion, to award the

0:57:16officer a service sidearm upon

0:57:18retirement.

0:57:20Resolution would allow the transfer of

0:57:21Captain Saintsing's badge and service

0:57:23sidearm to him on his retirement. Um

0:57:26Police Department would ask for

0:57:27Council's consideration in approving

0:57:29this resolution.

0:57:30And I will certainly have more to say

0:57:31about the service and commitment of

0:57:34Captain Saint Sing during full council

0:57:36meeting.

0:57:37>> Perfect.

0:57:39>> Thank you.

0:57:40>> I will

0:57:41defer to the committee.

0:57:43I will second.

0:57:55>> If you want to

0:57:57If you want to handle the contracts for

0:57:58the CDBG and PTRC

0:58:00>> I see these are pretty straightforward.

0:58:01>> Okay.

0:58:02>> And they're not going to the numbers

0:58:03aren't going to change and then the fact

0:58:05or discussion

0:58:07if you prefer that is item number

0:58:10>> Item number six.

0:58:12Correct.

0:58:14>> Six, seven.

0:58:15>> Yeah.

0:58:20Go for

0:58:21>> it. Yes, sir. Item number We'll start

0:58:22with item number six, consideration of

0:58:24acceptance of the CD CDBG-NR

0:58:27Grant 20-D-4024.

0:58:31And I'm not going to say the whole $2

0:58:33million. No.

0:58:33>> No problem at all. I appreciate that.

0:58:35>> This is

0:58:36acceptance of a contract agreement with

0:58:39Piedmont Triad Regional Council of

0:58:40Government. We have contracted with them

0:58:42to manage the first tranche of funds

0:58:44that we received from CDBG back in 2021.

0:58:49That grant was $950,000.

0:58:52That was originally established for the

0:58:53Pine Street program.

0:58:55Uh the redevelopment of the old

0:58:56hospital. Those funds have since been

0:58:59dissolved and we moved those funds with

0:59:01at the request of council and at the

0:59:04approval of commerce to the Strickland

0:59:06Center Carver Park.

0:59:08Um so in essence, we have to approve

0:59:10another contract for PTRC to manage

0:59:12those grant funds.

0:59:14In addition,

0:59:17we have to contract with uh PTRC to

0:59:19approve the second grant funds of $2.2

0:59:21million from commerce.

0:59:23Um what they've done in light of the

0:59:26issues that we had previously in working

0:59:29with their advisor to manage those grant

0:59:31funds, they've reduced their fee

0:59:33significantly. So, the original grant

0:59:37was $95,000 is what they were charging

0:59:39to manage the full 950,000.

0:59:42Okay.

0:59:43That number has been dropped to around

0:59:45116 to not only manage the 950, but also

0:59:49manage the 2.2 million dollars. I'll

0:59:52also add that that does include the

0:59:54calls for the environmental review study

0:59:56um in there that they're going to pay

0:59:58for out of their funds and it also

1:00:00includes the $25,494.64

1:00:04I think it's what it was that we had

1:00:06expended already for them to manage the

1:00:08grant for the first few years. And so,

1:00:11they've done a really good job and a

1:00:13good service to us um to include that in

1:00:16the funds. So, what you're seeing before

1:00:17you are two separate grant um our

1:00:20contract approval consider for

1:00:22consideration. One for $950,000

1:00:25to manage CDBG NR 21C 4024.

1:00:30Uh and that just says they're managing

1:00:32the 950. Their charge is $56,138.70

1:00:36for that grant.

1:00:39Secondarily, you'll see and it also so

1:00:41shows the scope.

1:00:42Secondarily, this other grant CDBG NR

1:00:4420-D-4024

1:00:47is $2,246,138.70.

1:00:51That's in addition to the 950.

1:00:54They will manage those funds for an

1:00:56additional $60,000.

1:00:58And so, that gives us the grand total

1:01:00that we came up with. Uh that means they

1:01:02they manage it start to finish and we'll

1:01:04talk more about uh in the next session,

1:01:07but the 2.2 million has to be expended

1:01:10by next August.

1:01:12Um so, the two items for consideration

1:01:14under um item six

1:01:16was both contracts for PTRC for managing

1:01:20both of those grant funds.

1:01:24>> Don't they also have to accept

1:01:27>> Don't they also have to accept the grant

1:01:29itself from CDBG?

1:01:31>> They are and it's on What number was it?

1:01:33>> That was number six.

1:01:34>> Okay.

1:01:36Let's back up for just a moment. You

1:01:38have already accepted the $950,000, but

1:01:42because they added on the $2.2 million,

1:01:45uh,

1:01:45Commerce has sent us a grant acceptance

1:01:48form

1:01:49with all the correct information

1:01:51finally.

1:01:52And so we need to accept that grant in

1:01:54total of $3,196,138.70.

1:01:59So if you could move that forward uh,

1:02:02for approval, then we can

1:02:04approve the contract to manage those

1:02:06funds. Thanks for catching that.

1:02:07>> I'll defer to the committee.

1:02:09>> Move to motion to move to

1:02:11uh, move to briefing.

1:02:12>> All right. I will second that. So item

1:02:13number six has been moved to briefing.

1:02:16And then uh, item number seven is is

1:02:18what the deputy city manager explained

1:02:20with the administration of the grant.

1:02:21>> That's right. Yes, sir. Ask for

1:02:22consideration for those two items.

1:02:24>> All right. I'll defer to the committee

1:02:26again.

1:02:26>> I'll move to briefing.

1:02:27>> Thank you. I'll second that. Uh, so item

1:02:30number seven has also been moved to

1:02:32briefing.

1:02:36>> Next item. Bear with me. Let me get down

1:02:38to it.

1:02:44Uh, the next is consideration approval

1:02:46of grant project ordinance, which will

1:02:48be Thomas.

1:02:49>> Yeah.

1:02:50>> Or Thomas Avington.

1:02:52>> I can

1:02:54>> Do you want to do that or do you want to

1:02:55hold off on that?

1:02:59>> I guess the

1:03:01I I'd like to hold off on that because

1:03:03an explanation of some of the numbers

1:03:05are coming from the discussion.

1:03:07>> Okay.

1:03:10>> I don't believe so.

1:03:13>> No. Okay. Do we want to go You want to

1:03:15do the budget amendment? Is it

1:03:17>> The budget amendment is

1:03:21doesn't have any of the

1:03:23>> It does.

1:03:24>> Okay. So, let's hold off on that.

1:03:25>> Okay.

1:03:26>> All right. Um how about we'll do number

1:03:2814 and we can then go to 16?

1:03:31>> Yep. I'm I'm fine with that. So.

1:03:33We'll do number 14 discussion of the

1:03:36fiscal year 28 community improvement

1:03:38program. City manager.

1:03:40>> Okay.

1:03:41Uh thank you.

1:03:42City staff are about to begin work on

1:03:45the CIP for next fiscal year. Uh we all

1:03:48we start that in in September

1:03:50and then review it through the fall and

1:03:52present it to council in November or

1:03:55December.

1:03:56The

1:03:57obviously this past fiscal year our CIP

1:04:01was greatly reduced.

1:04:03And so I expect that at least on the

1:04:06general fund side

1:04:08most items will be the same coming

1:04:10forward. Uh utilities course are moving

1:04:14forward with theirs and utilities will

1:04:16get new information uh when we get to

1:04:19the public utilities

1:04:20public services agenda we'll go over

1:04:23some of that. Um but I wanted to take a

1:04:26chan- a moment to ask council

1:04:29if there are items that they want us to

1:04:33focus on that we may not be aware of

1:04:36that you are interested in or if it was

1:04:39on

1:04:40the CIP before that you want to make

1:04:44sure that it gets put into the budget

1:04:46move coming forward. I don't necessarily

1:04:48need an answer today, but I need it in

1:04:50the next 2 weeks or so

1:04:53to to know if there's some item that you

1:04:55want supported strongly um and so that

1:04:59we can make sure that that it gets

1:05:01addressed through the CIP process um and

1:05:05we can try to plan for the expenditures

1:05:07of those funds. That's mostly related to

1:05:11capital either buildings or renovations

1:05:14of buildings or

1:05:17capital purchases such as vehicles,

1:05:19things of that nature

1:05:21is where that mostly would be.

1:05:23>> Anyone from council have input on that?

1:05:26>> So you need it next couple of weeks,

1:05:27right?

1:05:28>> Yep.

1:05:28>> So just email it to you?

1:05:29>> Yep.

1:05:30>> Okay.

1:05:35All right. We can we can jump on down to

1:05:3716 and do our our city council liaison

1:05:40reports.

1:05:41I will

1:05:43I'll start first. We have not had

1:05:44another

1:05:45Lake Tomahawk's commission meeting, so

1:05:47there's nothing to to update. We only

1:05:49meet quarterly.

1:05:51So nothing has changed since our last

1:05:53committee meeting when I shared. Um

1:05:57Parks and Rec, I

1:05:58Corey, can you share pool numbers? Do

1:06:00you have Do you know?

1:06:03>> Um

1:06:04That That's coming.

1:06:05>> Yeah, come on.

1:06:07>> Um pool wrapped up

1:06:10wrapped up on

1:06:12Monday with over 20,000

1:06:16public swimmers. We see another 5 to

1:06:198,000 from our camps and our swim team.

1:06:22So we're looking at about 26, 28,000

1:06:24again.

1:06:25Between the entry and the party rooms

1:06:28generated right at approximately

1:06:29$100,000 in revenue for the summer

1:06:31season. Um and

1:06:345,200

1:06:36ish hot dogs were sold. So

1:06:39one of the

1:06:40one of the coolest things about this

1:06:41summer was our staff. One of our new

1:06:43staff members along with Evander Davis

1:06:46who deserves a ton of praise for what

1:06:49he's done in Molly's division and how he

1:06:51oversees the facility is great. He does

1:06:53a fantastic job. Molly's leading that

1:06:56whole area. And then Jayden Timberlake,

1:06:59our new um

1:07:00recreation programmer, held an adult

1:07:02swim night, too, which was received very

1:07:04well.

1:07:05Um so uh,

1:07:07we saw more programming coming and still

1:07:09a steady crowd throughout the summer.

1:07:11So, just a big kudos to all the staff

1:07:13that are um, directly managing that

1:07:16because it it still is a premier

1:07:18facility for our community, so.

1:07:20>> Perfect.

1:07:20>> I appreciate

1:07:21>> Corey. I appreciate it. Sorry to put you

1:07:23on the spot. Um, everything else with

1:07:25with our Parks and Rec Committee, we,

1:07:27uh,

1:07:28talking about the Strickland Center, as

1:07:29you can imagine. Most That's usually the

1:07:32um,

1:07:32the core of our our conversation with

1:07:34that committee there. Um, so, that is

1:07:36everything, uh, from my committee. Do

1:07:39you have anything, Erica, from

1:07:40beautification?

1:07:41>> Um, the beautification, they, um,

1:07:43they looking forward they looking

1:07:45forward to their, um,

1:07:48What's the next

1:07:52I like up the holiday, but the other is

1:07:54coming up in September. It's coming up

1:07:56in September. Everybody's day. They

1:07:58looking forward of getting ready for

1:08:00that, and, um, they doing a awesome job.

1:08:03>> All right. Thank you, Lisa.

1:08:08>> Corey, do we have anything going on with

1:08:10the golf?

1:08:14Other than the mayor's tournament coming

1:08:16up.

1:08:17>> Yes, ma'am. Um, we are almost fully

1:08:20functional with the, um,

1:08:22the Bogey Barn is what they're referring

1:08:23to as the simulator building. Uh, we've

1:08:25had folks been able to use it. Some

1:08:26firemen have been able to come test it

1:08:28out for us PT on their off days or

1:08:30whatever. Um, see in steady numbers

1:08:33again. Uh, we did have a little bit of a

1:08:35revenue rate increase, uh, but that

1:08:37hasn't diminished any play. Um, we will

1:08:39see a little, uh,

1:08:41tenure and staff turnover, uh, into the

1:08:43later season with retirement, so we're

1:08:45addressing those kind of things moving

1:08:46into another season, but we continue to

1:08:49hear positive praise,

1:08:51um, about the course and the things

1:08:53that, um, I think we were right at

1:08:5635,000 rounds in in July and saw about

1:08:591.1 million in revenue, uh, come in for

1:09:02the course and the mayor's cup will be

1:09:05on September 29th there on Tuesday. So

1:09:08it booked up within the first 2 weeks

1:09:10and should be another good event raising

1:09:12funds for Habitat for Humanity in our

1:09:15community. So

1:09:17they're they're doing a good job.

1:09:19Yes, ma'am.

1:09:19>> Good.

1:09:20>> Yeah, Mr. Mayor if you want to

1:09:22>> Thank you, Corey.

1:09:23>> I do Thomaston Housing Authority went to

1:09:26the meeting. It was good meeting. It's a

1:09:28good good group of people there that

1:09:30that are dedicated on that on that

1:09:33committee.

1:09:34We had a fire a few months back over

1:09:37there in one of the buildings. It pretty

1:09:39much destroyed the building.

1:09:41Had to be redone.

1:09:43It's well on the way. If you ride

1:09:46through you'll see that

1:09:48the construction is the building's up

1:09:50and construction's ongoing for that.

1:09:53They they praised our police department

1:09:57for the good good response they get when

1:09:59they need them. They have a good

1:10:01partnership with the police department.

1:10:03It's they don't have any major problems

1:10:06that they spoke of but just you know

1:10:08ongoing things.

1:10:09So they're they're really high on on our

1:10:11city departments and the services they

1:10:14receive from them. So they were very

1:10:16happy about that. It was very positive

1:10:18meeting.

1:10:19>> Thank you, Mayor. Doug.

1:10:21>> Yeah, the planning board has been had a

1:10:23light load here lately but we did have a

1:10:25meeting

1:10:26yesterday and had one variance on that.

1:10:29The board works well together. They

1:10:32they get through everything quickly so

1:10:33everybody's not standing around waiting

1:10:35wasting time. So everything's been going

1:10:37smooth with it. Just haven't been a lot

1:10:38of going on. We've had some breaks in

1:10:40there.

1:10:41>> Thank you.

1:10:41>> Chuck West.

1:10:43>> Didn't get to make it make it to

1:10:44historic preservation yesterday. Chuck,

1:10:46is anything new for historic

1:10:47preservation this month?

1:10:57>> Matty Matty did give me notes that

1:10:58October 10th is Murder and Mayhem.

1:11:01>> Uh hysteria.

1:11:02Uh Murder uh Murder and Mayhem will

1:11:04happen October 10th, so we'll be

1:11:06advertising that soon. Uh there'll be at

1:11:09least four stops on the uh the tour

1:11:11downtown telling true uh stories of

1:11:14uh what happened here in town, so

1:11:17be sure to share that with uh

1:11:19your friends and family so we can

1:11:21uh

1:11:22share the continue the

1:11:24the tour that you what's here in the

1:11:26past, so uh

1:11:28basically that's all Well, we're also

1:11:29dealing with uh

1:11:31uh the Young Cemetery.

1:11:33>> Yeah.

1:11:33>> Uh we're currently working with that

1:11:35family. Uh we went out there a couple

1:11:36weeks ago to tour the site. Seven Sinsy

1:11:39came along as well with the what's going

1:11:41to do the drone, but it's too thick and

1:11:43uh with the leaves on the trees and so

1:11:45forth, but we're working with that

1:11:46family. We already had two meetings. And

1:11:48so

1:11:49once the progress gets along, I'll share

1:11:52further information, show you pictures,

1:11:54and then uh what we're proposing in the

1:11:57near future.

1:11:58>> It's right behind the Housing Authority.

1:12:00>> Oh,

1:12:01>> Yeah, it's a gate there or opening in

1:12:03the gate where you can see the cemetery,

1:12:04but it's really grown up. It's a lot of

1:12:06trees, stones pushed over. Uh Joe Graves

1:12:09one heading up this project. Uh we're

1:12:12trying he wants to honor just uh the

1:12:13soldiers out there. You have white

1:12:15Buffalo soldiers as well as uh

1:12:17uh brave verse veterans uh that has

1:12:19passed away, so he's want to try to

1:12:21restore those graves and give

1:12:22recognition to those folks. And then

1:12:24we're working with other organizations

1:12:26within the community to assist with this

1:12:28project as well.

1:12:30>> Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Thank

1:12:32you, Chuck.

1:12:33All right, Dana.

1:12:36>> Um we are gearing up for everybody's

1:12:38night on September 25th. Um it's going

1:12:41to be 5:30 to 11:00. We've got the

1:12:44Catalinas, Delta Son, the Bennett Hall

1:12:46Band coming, also DJ Weapon X. Um we are

1:12:50going to be doing the hopefully um a

1:12:53line dance that's going to be the

1:12:55largest line dance ever. We're going to

1:12:57have drones in the air and uh it's going

1:12:59to be a fun time.

1:13:03We're looking at you, Sam, for your

1:13:04drone.

1:13:06And then everybody's day

1:13:08um at the depot, we're going to have a

1:13:10magician there. He's going to be doing

1:13:12balloon animals and we're going to have

1:13:16a station for kids to write letters to

1:13:18soldiers. So, if

1:13:21uh you can have kids come out and we can

1:13:22write some letters. Um also, we are full

1:13:25steam ahead for the Christmas parade,

1:13:27which is going to be December 12th at

1:13:2911:00.

1:13:31So, looking for sponsors and looking for

1:13:33entries. So,

1:13:36ready for Christmas to get here.

1:13:39>> Good. Thank you. A lot of good stuff

1:13:40happening.

1:13:42All right.

1:13:48>> The

1:13:49items six and seven that were moved to

1:13:51briefing

1:13:52>> Mhm.

1:13:53>> uh we're actually requesting council

1:13:55approve those at briefing and put on the

1:13:58on that agenda for approval because of

1:14:00the timeline. We're trying to gain as

1:14:02many days as we can to move things

1:14:04forward. So, I don't know if that

1:14:06requires a modification of your uh

1:14:09move to briefing, but

1:14:11move to briefing for action is

1:14:13>> Okay. We can we can go back in and

1:14:16reapprove those if you'll make them.

1:14:18>> Make a motion move to briefing with

1:14:19action.

1:14:20>> at briefing me at the briefing meeting?

1:14:21>> All right. I will second. So, that takes

1:14:23care of six and seven for you.

1:14:24>> Okay. Thank you.

1:14:26And then uh I can do an update also.

1:14:28>> Sure.

1:14:28>> Uh

1:14:29so, all summer we've been to having

1:14:32discussions regarding the lighting of

1:14:35the water tower.

1:14:36>> Mhm.

1:14:37>> And uh that has been proven to be very

1:14:40uh frustrating process. Uh

1:14:42hard to find even someone that can

1:14:44actually do that type of work.

1:14:46I finally was able to track down uh

1:14:49uh uh the city of Apex recently did an

1:14:52RFP for lighting of their water tower, a

1:14:55similar size water tower, much more

1:14:57modern. It was a It was a new water

1:14:58tower.

1:15:00So, it didn't have all the the metal

1:15:02girders that we have. And the price that

1:15:05they were quoted was over $140,000

1:15:09to light up their their tower.

1:15:11>> Looks like we won't be lighting up the

1:15:12tower.

1:15:14>> So,

1:15:15yes, so what that that does mean is that

1:15:19there's there's $10,000 that were

1:15:21budgeted for that project. And so,

1:15:25council can either let that

1:15:28return to the general fund fund balance

1:15:31or can put it into a different project.

1:15:34The money's were were part of the set

1:15:37aside for the 250 events. So, you could

1:15:40release the funds to that organization

1:15:43to that ad hoc committee

1:15:47to expend

1:15:49or you can put it into downtown

1:15:51projects. What what whichever may want

1:15:53to do. You don't have to make a decision

1:15:55today, but we definitely are are not

1:15:57moving forward on lighting up the

1:15:59the tower. So,

1:16:00>> Yeah.

1:16:00>> Yeah. Again, that's another thing you

1:16:02can think about in the next committee

1:16:04meeting decide what you want to do with

1:16:06that.

1:16:06>> Okay.

1:16:07Good deal.

1:16:09All right.

1:16:10Have our guests arrived?

1:16:12Our presenters?

1:16:13>> Not yet.

1:16:13>> Okay.

1:16:14>> Unfortunately.

1:16:16>> You just want to recess at this point?

1:16:18>> Um

1:16:20You want to go ahead and do the special

1:16:21event?

1:16:23>> We we can. Yeah.

1:16:24>> Yep.

1:16:25>> Okay.

1:16:25>> All right. Well, so what we're going to

1:16:27jump up to item number 10,

1:16:29approval of revised special event

1:16:31application and process. I'll recognize

1:16:32our city manager.

1:16:35>> One moment while I get some video.

1:16:38Eddie, can you put the um

1:16:40the video up there.

1:16:44Not the video, the

1:16:49>> the flow chart.

1:16:50>> Yeah.

1:16:51We're trying to find it.

1:17:04Wendy, you'll have to keep me in check

1:17:05over there. Make sure I hit all these

1:17:07items

1:17:08the way we're we've jumped around today.

1:17:10I think I've got it, but just in case.

1:17:32You got it. Okay. I got it too.

1:17:35All right. So, um

1:17:37there's been discussion off and on for,

1:17:40well, almost a year now about the

1:17:43interactions between the social district

1:17:45and Pace Park,

1:17:47uh but also special events in general,

1:17:49how we go through the process. Uh there

1:17:51was some concerns about processes and

1:17:55and some ambiguities built into that.

1:17:58Also, some question about, you know, who

1:18:00who's responsible for what, things of

1:18:02that nature.

1:18:03Uh it In March, we met uh the entire

1:18:07staff that's involved with special event

1:18:09approval processes, police, fire

1:18:12marshal, parks and recreation

1:18:13administration, uh tourism commission.

1:18:17Uh we all met and went over processes,

1:18:20what what the current process is, what

1:18:22what are we proposing to change. Uh

1:18:25then, uh internally, we we took those

1:18:28and tried to map out what is our process

1:18:31and what what are we trying to

1:18:33accomplish here and try and trying to

1:18:36make it clear um as much as possible

1:18:40and then also address the ABC permitting

1:18:44requirements and where those when those

1:18:46kick in and when they don't kick in for

1:18:48for usage specifically at the Pace Park

1:18:51facility.

1:18:52So I laid out this this process map and

1:18:56we can walk through it

1:18:59that basically explains what's happening

1:19:02and and who's responsible for what.

1:19:05So the the first thing is that when

1:19:08you're choosing to have a special event

1:19:10is determining does it have any impact

1:19:12on the city basically. Is it affecting

1:19:15are you doing it in a park? Are you

1:19:17doing it in a parking lot? Are you doing

1:19:18it on a street? Or or are you going to

1:19:21impact a street? So you may be doing

1:19:24something completely on private property

1:19:27but because of the large number of

1:19:29people that may be coming there you may

1:19:31be impacting the street which means we

1:19:33may have to be concerned about police

1:19:36directional issues, things of that

1:19:38nature.

1:19:39So that's that's the first thing that

1:19:41someone decides

1:19:43if it meets any of those then yes you

1:19:45need to have a special event permit and

1:19:47then it moves on to the next step. Then

1:19:49it becomes well what is the space that

1:19:51you're going to use? Are is it a is it a

1:19:54street? Is it a park?

1:19:56Is it a parking lot because we do those

1:19:58closures also.

1:20:00So each one of those has a different

1:20:04potential activity that has to take

1:20:07place for it. So if you're doing a

1:20:09street closure

1:20:11first and foremost what type of street

1:20:13is it? Is it a city street or is it a

1:20:16state street? If it's a city street you

1:20:19need to give us 60 days notice.

1:20:21If it's a state street you need to give

1:20:23us 90 day notice because we have to get

1:20:26it through our process

1:20:28and NCDOT has to approve it. So the

1:20:32council has to do an ordinance closing

1:20:34that street and then get that to NCDOT

1:20:38within their time frame and their time

1:20:40frame is is 60 days. Um so, yes,

1:20:44that can be fudged a little bit, but

1:20:47that's that's really at any point DOT

1:20:49could say no. We're not, you know, you

1:20:51didn't give us enough time, we're not

1:20:52going to do it.

1:20:54So, that that that's one of the longest

1:20:57out issues, how long it takes to get

1:21:00through that process. So, if anyone's

1:21:01talking about closing a street, it's

1:21:02going to take a while. Basically up to 3

1:21:05months

1:21:06to get it through that.

1:21:08>> Is this going to be online on our site

1:21:10where they

1:21:10>> Yeah, this will be online and it'll be a

1:21:12little bit more simplified. This is for

1:21:14our internal use right here.

1:21:16>> Yeah.

1:21:16>> Um but yes.

1:21:17>> with it, they just click a button and it

1:21:18takes them to different sections?

1:21:20>> Um Capricia is uh Davis with our

1:21:23recreation department is rewriting the

1:21:25application process and I don't know if

1:21:28it'll have all of the, you know, if then

1:21:30type setup, but it will explain what's

1:21:34happening. And they and they've worked

1:21:36on that and there's an example of it.

1:21:38There's a there's a there's a document

1:21:39attached to this that is the application

1:21:44that came from the online application.

1:21:48So, then the next question is, are you

1:21:50going to allow alcohol? Well, you can't

1:21:52have alcohol in any space except for

1:21:53Pace Park. That's the only place you can

1:21:55have alcohol.

1:21:57Um the with the exception and and this

1:22:00also,

1:22:01to be clear,

1:22:03this does not address the special

1:22:06exception ordinance that's already been

1:22:09established for Everybody's Night. So,

1:22:11Everybody's Night is not going through

1:22:13this because they have a special

1:22:14exclusion or allowance for alcohol sales

1:22:18um that's separate from this. This is

1:22:20for pretty much anything else. Uh would

1:22:23go through this.

1:22:24If you have alcohol,

1:22:27then you have to go through the bottom

1:22:30steps that you see here that's in the

1:22:33gray box. So, the first question is is

1:22:36that you can only have Well, you can

1:22:38only have beer and wine.

1:22:40It has to be done by a nonprofit.

1:22:43The nonprofit has to be the the folks

1:22:46that are in control of the event.

1:22:48That's

1:22:49>> state statute.

1:22:50>> Correct. Yes, I believe that that's a

1:22:52state statute.

1:22:53Um

1:22:54and we only allow it at Pace Park, which

1:22:57includes the farmers market. So, that

1:22:58whole L-shape that we own, that's all

1:23:01considered Pace Park for this allowance.

1:23:05So, the first is the ABC daily permit

1:23:08held by the event host. That's one

1:23:10option.

1:23:11The second option is it's held by a

1:23:13third-party vendor that has the

1:23:15authority to have an ABC permit. So, a

1:23:17brewery, a winery,

1:23:19a caterer, those type fit into that.

1:23:23Or if you're only going to do the social

1:23:25district, um and the purchase is being

1:23:29offsite, then you don't need to hold an

1:23:31ABC permit, but you do have to follow

1:23:34the the police enforcement. So, you

1:23:36still need police officers as if you

1:23:39were the one hosting the ABC permit.

1:23:42So, the ABC permit that that is required

1:23:45to be submitted 30 days before the

1:23:47event.

1:23:49Um if there's no ABC permit necessary,

1:23:51again, you follow the law enforcement

1:23:53requirements.

1:23:55The law What is the law enforcement

1:23:56requirement? It's at least two off-duty

1:23:59TPD officers for at least 2 hours.

1:24:03That's the time frame that you're

1:24:04working in. Then, depending upon the

1:24:06number of people there, depending on on

1:24:09the uh number of number of hours having

1:24:11to serve, that will depend what the

1:24:13total number of officers may be.

1:24:15Uh you also have to have wristbands uh

1:24:18for the sale of the alcohol.

1:24:20The insurance requirement, a

1:24:22million-dollar policy with the city

1:24:23named as also insured,

1:24:25any alcohol rider if alcohol is allowed

1:24:28in any manner, whether it's the ABC

1:24:30permit or the social district, because

1:24:33you're allowing alcohol in your event,

1:24:36you have to have a rider on your

1:24:38insurance that includes us.

1:24:41Approval process is police, public

1:24:43works, parks and recreation.

1:24:46Now, the social district, the rules are

1:24:50suspended when alcohol is sold on site.

1:24:54So, you are no longer the social

1:24:55district in Peace Park.

1:24:59No off-site alcohol is allowed within

1:25:03Peace Park. So, if you have an ABC

1:25:05permit, then someone can't go to Tracks,

1:25:08buy a drink, and walk into your event.

1:25:12Okay?

1:25:14But, the reverse is also true, that you

1:25:16can't let on-site alcohol leave the

1:25:20social district,

1:25:22because they won't be carrying the

1:25:23proper cups in order to cross that

1:25:26boundary.

1:25:28And we we will have signage available

1:25:31that will be put up

1:25:33indicating whether there's alcohol

1:25:34allowed or no alcohol allowed, and and

1:25:37that the it can't cross the boundary.

1:25:39We'll provide that signage as as the

1:25:42lessee of the property, but it'll be up

1:25:44to the event organizer to manage.

1:25:48That's why they have police there. If

1:25:50someone someone will not follow the the

1:25:52standard that the police that that the

1:25:55event organizer is doing, then they can

1:25:57turn to the police officer. That's also

1:26:00true if the organizer says, "I don't

1:26:02want alcohol at my event," but someone

1:26:04from a local bar moves into their space,

1:26:07it's up to them

1:26:09to ask them to leave or to finish their

1:26:11drink or whatever may be, and if they

1:26:13don't comply for the event organizer to

1:26:17then contact Thomasville police for

1:26:19enforcement as a trespass and uh

1:26:23a uh potential violation.

1:26:25So, So, the event organizer is

1:26:27responsible for managing that that

1:26:30process.

1:26:31Um So, that's all the alcohol event

1:26:33rules.

1:26:35When you come back up into

1:26:38the uh regular special event permit

1:26:40process,

1:26:44the question is is insurance required?

1:26:46Yes, it's required. Uh

1:26:48million dollars were all were added as a

1:26:51uh also insured.

1:26:54The approval process. Generally

1:26:56speaking, this is all staff level

1:26:58approval. The only time it is not staff

1:27:00level approval is when there's a street

1:27:02closure on a state street because that

1:27:05requires that the ordinance from city

1:27:07council for the street closure.

1:27:09Everything else is is staff level

1:27:11approval that's handled in house. Uh as

1:27:14a matter of fact, for the most part, the

1:27:15administration is even taken out of it.

1:27:17We're not part of the the approval of

1:27:19that either. Um it's the it's the

1:27:21organization that the departments that

1:27:23specifically have to address it. So,

1:27:25fire, police, parks and rec, public

1:27:27works.

1:27:29Now, there's a number of special

1:27:30considerations that you see here. Those

1:27:33are uh information as far as uh

1:27:36add-ons and such things to the events.

1:27:38So, any tent that's larger than 800

1:27:41square feet

1:27:43is required to be inspected by the fire

1:27:45marshal. That's just That's the

1:27:47requirement. That's what state law says.

1:27:50Any food truck must have a current

1:27:52health inspection

1:27:54uh certificate provided by the county

1:27:56health department.

1:27:58And there is some indication, and I'm

1:28:01not sure if it's actually gone into

1:28:03effect yet, having to do with state fire

1:28:05code inspection for food trucks. So, uh

1:28:09if that is required, then that has to

1:28:11happen also.

1:28:12It's unclear to me whether that has been

1:28:15adopted yet, but I know it's coming,

1:28:17right? Yeah. I think it's in the next

1:28:19building code or something like that.

1:28:22All right, so animals.

1:28:24Just recently in another jurisdiction

1:28:27within Davidson County, someone had a

1:28:30petting farm petting zoo set up and

1:28:34there was a contact rabies potential

1:28:37because goats, which I did not realize

1:28:39can carry rabies,

1:28:41were was

1:28:43and I did look into it. All mammals can

1:28:45carry rabies. It's not just bats and and

1:28:48dogs and stuff like that.

1:28:51Well,

1:28:52my my ChatGPT said that all all mammals,

1:28:55so

1:28:56um

1:28:57>> I won't get close to it. I won't get

1:28:59close to any of them just in case.

1:29:00>> I would be really scary to see a possum

1:29:02on rabies.

1:29:05Um but

1:29:07as far as it goes in our jurisdiction,

1:29:10anytime you have an animal, whether it's

1:29:12to display, to ride, to pet, it must be

1:29:15disclosed on the application. You must

1:29:18have a plan for waste.

1:29:22And you must have a portable wash

1:29:25station. That comes out of the state law

1:29:27on petting zoos and and things of that

1:29:29nature.

1:29:30Um and then there needs to be an animal

1:29:33insurance rider depending on the type of

1:29:36whether whether it's a petting zoo

1:29:38versus a ride, um there's different

1:29:40insurance potential provisions.

1:29:44If the event organizer doesn't want to

1:29:46hold that insurance, then whoever is

1:29:49providing the animal needs to provide

1:29:52that information and include the city as

1:29:54an additional insured. So, that way

1:29:57we're completely covered either through

1:30:00a third party that's bringing the

1:30:02animals or by the event organizer.

1:30:08Um

1:30:09something else that we I learned while

1:30:11we were going through this process is

1:30:13that under state fire code, there's an

1:30:15event management requirement for events

1:30:18that have more than 1,000 attendees.

1:30:22Um

1:30:23if someone says that they're going to

1:30:25have an event more than 1,000,

1:30:27they're going to need to talk to the

1:30:28police depart Excuse me, the fire

1:30:30department, emergency management,

1:30:32um or the fire marshal to understand

1:30:34what that means cuz I'm uh

1:30:38Can you explain Chief Myers or

1:30:42uh Mr. Ursinski, can you explain what

1:30:45an event management coordinator is?

1:30:48>> I did not come prepared for that.

1:30:51And hopefully I had him coming at the

1:30:53next committee. Uh but it is a crowd

1:30:56management to help people evacuate and

1:31:00and or to seek shelter. Whatever the

1:31:03guide is, it's just having additional

1:31:05people there from emergency services

1:31:08that are there to uh provide direction,

1:31:12especially of

1:31:14a crowd that size.

1:31:16>> Is there a cost associated with that?

1:31:18>> Well, I think that would be a question

1:31:20that we would have to to further

1:31:22investigate um whether someone can

1:31:24become certified in that through

1:31:28the equivalent of a save uh

1:31:30self What is it called? Uh

1:31:32safe serve where you take an online

1:31:34course, and you can just show evidence

1:31:37that yes, you took this course,

1:31:39um therefore I've I've got that

1:31:40position, or whether we would require

1:31:43there to be a fire truck at the event or

1:31:46something like that that you know, puts

1:31:47three people

1:31:48>> 1,000.

1:31:48>> That's only if it's over 1,000.

1:31:53That's why basically it's a special

1:31:54consideration that we'd have to look

1:31:56into further.

1:31:58Um porta-john requirements, if the

1:32:00public restrooms are are available, then

1:32:02you don't need any for the first 500

1:32:04attendees. So, we have the downtown

1:32:06bathrooms and we have the ones at Pace

1:32:09Park. So, generally those will cover for

1:32:11that.

1:32:13But, if But, if you have more than 500

1:32:14attendees to your event, then you're

1:32:16going to look at having

1:32:18porta-johns and staff will determine if

1:32:21there's a need for ADA porta-johns and

1:32:23how many are needed at that point.

1:32:26>> Does

1:32:28Just a thought. Um

1:32:30does that affect like everybody's night

1:32:31and everybody's day?

1:32:33>> Yes, but they have they bring in

1:32:35porta-johns.

1:32:35>> Yeah, I thought they did anyway. I just

1:32:37wanted to make sure.

1:32:38>> One question about everybody's night. I

1:32:39know that

1:32:41whenever I'm guarding the beer garden

1:32:44that we have, we have been putting bands

1:32:47on, but then they can go to Rusty's and

1:32:48they can just get a beer and walk around

1:32:50without a wristband cuz Rusty doesn't

1:32:52put wristbands on. So, I know you said

1:32:55everybody's night is a special thing.

1:32:57So, do we have to do the wristbands on

1:32:59everybody's night or do we not or is it

1:33:01just the cups?

1:33:04Because if we don't have to do the

1:33:06wristbands, Cameron

1:33:08>> We only do the wristbands to help out

1:33:09Goose and Monkey so that we don't get

1:33:11backed up in line so that when people go

1:33:13to Goose and Monkey and say, "I want a

1:33:15beer or I want a refill." they're not

1:33:17stuck checking. That's the only reason

1:33:18we do wristbands. As long as they have

1:33:20the social district cup

1:33:22and they leave Rusty's, they leave

1:33:24Alibi, they leave wherever, as long as

1:33:28they have the right cup, the wristbands

1:33:29are something we do to help Goose and

1:33:31Monkey.

1:33:32>> Okay, I was just trying to eliminate

1:33:33that step.

1:33:34>> Thank you.

1:33:36Sorry, Mike.

1:33:36>> No, it's fine.

1:33:37No, we're good.

1:33:39Um

1:33:40And then, the one other comment is is

1:33:42that sometimes we have rolling street

1:33:43closures for either a march, a parade, a

1:33:46crosswalk, things of that nature.

1:33:48We wouldn't necessarily consider that a

1:33:50complete street shutdown. We would just

1:33:52We We still want to get a special event

1:33:54permit for it

1:33:56uh so we can organize what police

1:33:58protection or whatever may need to be

1:33:59done to to work that process. So, that

1:34:02would be a special case.

1:34:03Um so, that's that's basically the

1:34:06layout of how we get through this uh

1:34:08process. Um the the key is is trying to

1:34:13uh of course get the word out when

1:34:14people want events. Uh but have make

1:34:18sure that they understand that there are

1:34:20responsibilities that they're taking on

1:34:22and that they follow those

1:34:23responsibilities uh in a timely manner

1:34:26so that we can get the information and

1:34:28and get it approved and and moved on.

1:34:30>> Yeah. This is helpful. I mean it's it's

1:34:32helpful to see it laid out like this.

1:34:35>> So,

1:34:36um as it is my understanding that the

1:34:39council originally approved the special

1:34:42event permit um and so therefore uh

1:34:46we're going to application I should say

1:34:49special event permit application. So, uh

1:34:52we're going to request that you do

1:34:53approve that special event permit

1:34:55application which is the second part of

1:34:57the document that's here. Um

1:35:01so that we can then officially let it

1:35:04let it go. So, I'm going to ask that

1:35:06this be moved to

1:35:08Uh

1:35:08well, at council at at the council

1:35:10meeting. So,

1:35:11>> Councilman Johnson

1:35:12>> I just ask that you put it on move to

1:35:13the briefing

1:35:14>> Okay.

1:35:15>> Thank you, Councilman Thrift. And and

1:35:16before we move forward with the

1:35:18uh approval of the application, um if we

1:35:20go back up to the uh off-duty officers

1:35:23and I definitely appreciate I know we've

1:35:25been probably been over a little bit

1:35:26over a year that we've been having a

1:35:28discussion about the special events

1:35:30permits and actually getting a process

1:35:32that was in writing for people to be

1:35:33able to see um that was clean and easy

1:35:36to uh be able to understand. Right here

1:35:38where it it with law enforcement

1:35:40requirement, so at least two uh town

1:35:43police officers off-duty a minimum of 2

1:35:46hours. So, is it a reason that we

1:35:48specifically put off-duty officers

1:35:51because in my uh as you all know I'm

1:35:54planning a

1:35:55one of our events for the city and

1:35:58thinking about you know one of the major

1:35:59costs that is now becoming one of the

1:36:01major costs in in into the special

1:36:03events is the two police officers cuz

1:36:05you know we're having to pay them a

1:36:07little bit higher than what we would

1:36:09normally if there was a officer on duty.

1:36:11So is is there a reason that we built

1:36:13that specific in there to the policy?

1:36:16>> That that they're off-duty versus

1:36:17on-duty?

1:36:18An on-duty police officer has a

1:36:20responsibility

1:36:22throughout the town or city and they

1:36:25can't be designated to one specific

1:36:28place because we cannot guarantee that

1:36:30they would stay within that boundary.

1:36:32They have they patrol by zone. So the so

1:36:37that's why you the hiring of the people

1:36:40that are off-duty is required. Um

1:36:44An officer that's on-duty can be called

1:36:48for an for an

1:36:49an event activity like we've got a

1:36:51problem, you know, they're going to

1:36:52respond. Um and that's why you don't

1:36:55need them for just a regular event that

1:36:57doesn't have alcohol. Um

1:36:59the uh

1:37:00but

1:37:02Yes, it is my opinion that you have to

1:37:05have off-duty officer that an on-duty

1:37:07officer

1:37:08even if it's Officer Reeves who's the

1:37:11community

1:37:13officer

1:37:15he's not acting as a

1:37:17patrol for ALE type violations. He's

1:37:20there as a community officer handing out

1:37:23balloons or something. Um so so no, you

1:37:26you can't use on-duty to fulfill the the

1:37:29requirement of those of of that ALE

1:37:33requirement or the alcohol requirement

1:37:35to have officers. That's my opinion and

1:37:37it may be Chief, are you still in here?

1:37:40>> Yeah.

1:37:41>> There you are. Um

1:37:43is that your understanding too that that

1:37:45an officer that's on-duty can't be

1:37:48stationed in that manner.

1:37:50>> Well,

1:37:51I don't think it would be prudent

1:37:53um to take an officer to

1:37:55police a

1:37:57special event.

1:37:58Um

1:38:00when you have an entire zone

1:38:02um

1:38:03that has calls for service. And so, that

1:38:06would take an officer completely out of

1:38:07service

1:38:08for a period of 3 hours or however long

1:38:10the event may occur. Um and their

1:38:13responsibility would be to that special

1:38:15event.

1:38:16Um you know, they're serving alcohol and

1:38:19so,

1:38:20we would certainly advise council

1:38:22that

1:38:24appropriately, you should use an

1:38:25off-duty officer that can be that can

1:38:27devote their time

1:38:29to the entire event

1:38:30um where alcohol is sold.

1:38:32And the minimum of two requirement is

1:38:34for obvious concerns.

1:38:37Um when you have a lot of folks, um not

1:38:40not to say that every event gets

1:38:41disrupted, but

1:38:43is there a potential for that?

1:38:44For safety concerns, we

1:38:46we recommend there is a minimum of two

1:38:48officers. Um and obviously,

1:38:52depending on the size of the crowd,

1:38:53would certainly dictate if more officers

1:38:56would be necessary um to provide, you

1:38:59know,

1:38:59security for that event and protection

1:39:02for those that um are patrons there.

1:39:05>> What What is the current rate for a

1:39:08off-duty?

1:39:08>> $35

1:39:09>> $35, okay. That's what I thought.

1:39:13>> When you say the two officers for 2

1:39:15hours, they have to be there together,

1:39:16or is that they can two officers can

1:39:18cover 4-hour period?

1:39:19>> No. No, it's two officers the whole

1:39:22time.

1:39:24>> And only Maybe I should be a little

1:39:25clarifying in my question. I definitely

1:39:27appreciate that response with the off

1:39:29off-duty and on-duty officers. Um but my

1:39:32thought process was being a little bit

1:39:34more when we're doing the special

1:39:35events, and one of my biggest things was

1:39:37really making sure that we weren't

1:39:38creating bigger roadblocks or hindrances

1:39:41for people that want to do special

1:39:42events in the city. And so, with the law

1:39:45enforcement officers that we currently

1:39:47have in the policy, what I was more so

1:39:49curious about was not so much pulling

1:39:51our on-duty officers that are our

1:39:53officers that are on patrol from those

1:39:55sites, but seeing if though cuz I I do

1:39:58know that some cities like Greensboro

1:40:00offer overtime for the officers that are

1:40:02participating in special events. So,

1:40:04it's a little bit of different than the

1:40:05pay structure, but it's still not as

1:40:07much we're saying with off-duty with $35

1:40:09an hour, which is a lot when you're

1:40:12just two officers just having to be

1:40:13there and a event

1:40:16is anywhere from between 4 to 5 hours.

1:40:18So, that's that's a big part of the

1:40:19budget. So, that's where I'm thinking of

1:40:21in my mind of how do we make this

1:40:23affordable for people that want to hold

1:40:25an event in the community and we need

1:40:27the law They need the law enforcement

1:40:28officers there. As a person that's had

1:40:29these events, it's so amazing having

1:40:32those officers there, but making it to

1:40:34where it's as easy as possible for

1:40:37people not to have that hindrance if

1:40:38that makes sense.

1:40:39>> And so, that's for alcohol events,

1:40:40correct?

1:40:41>> Yeah, it's only for alcohol events, for

1:40:42events that serve alcohol.

1:40:44>> Or allow for them on the social

1:40:46district.

1:40:46>> because because they're

1:40:48uh the

1:40:50My opinion is that if someone is hosting

1:40:52an event,

1:40:54they're responsible for that event and

1:40:56if they're going to allow alcohol,

1:40:59then they're responsible for having the

1:41:01law enforcement officers and it's a cost

1:41:04of doing business

1:41:05for that event. That event is going to

1:41:09sell beer and wine

1:41:11and collect revenue and that it

1:41:14Well, not if Right, if it's not the

1:41:16social district, but if they don't want

1:41:17to allow alcohol If they don't want to

1:41:19have the officers, they can not allow

1:41:22the alcohol into their event.

1:41:24>> But, that's not necessarily true, is it,

1:41:25Corey, because

1:41:27uh

1:41:28I was I was told for even our event

1:41:30period if they had a certain amount of

1:41:31people that you need to have those

1:41:33officers.

1:41:33>> That's the That That is something that

1:41:35we're wanting to

1:41:37that we're missing is that like all

1:41:39uh live the holidays and some of our

1:41:43crap larger crowd expected events we do

1:41:46uh we have been saying that is wise to

1:41:49we need officers, right? Because

1:41:51>> Have you been suspending the social

1:41:53district now?

1:41:54>> Right, cuz like uh the Mount Zion Yeah,

1:41:57no no I'm not I'm not talking alcohol at

1:41:58all. I'm talking

1:41:59>> No, I'm talking about

1:42:00>> Oh no, he's talking about his alcohol.

1:42:02>> Right, no no no, he's not. He said if

1:42:04you weren't going to have alcohol at all

1:42:05>> Correct, but the suspension of the

1:42:07social district I'm talking about.

1:42:09Alcohol is still allowed, you can still

1:42:11go in there and still have it. So it

1:42:13does become a component whether you

1:42:14would

1:42:15you would have

1:42:15>> I think I think we're talking about two

1:42:16different I think we're talking about

1:42:17two different things.

1:42:19The

1:42:20The initial discussion was the an

1:42:22alcohol and whether an officer and

1:42:24whether it could be part an overtime

1:42:26position or or that.

1:42:28What Corey is referring to is that

1:42:31there's nothing there's no expression of

1:42:33needing

1:42:35police officers when it's a large event

1:42:39and we require officers.

1:42:41That that's not in here.

1:42:43Um it's in the application though, isn't

1:42:45it?

1:42:46>> We have laying lit ourselves towards

1:42:50telling folks to do that for like live

1:42:52the holidays, the Mount Zion event

1:42:53downtown, uh the trail where we expected

1:42:56almost maybe a thousand people. Once you

1:42:58clear that 500 something it's like porta

1:43:00johns.

1:43:00Once you clear a certain number, it

1:43:03crowd management is a good thing to have

1:43:06and it might be even the crowd

1:43:07management

1:43:09thing with the fire department instead.

1:43:10I don't know, but like the chief and I

1:43:12have had conversations. Once you start

1:43:14extending it past that 500

1:43:17it is wise to have some off I mean

1:43:20that's a large gathering or that's why I

1:43:22mentioned that because I think you were

1:43:23saying because you didn't have that

1:43:25officer or

1:43:26>> No, not this year.

1:43:27>> We still did all of the officers, right?

1:43:28>> Right.

1:43:29>> That was what

1:43:31might be a gap in this flowchart here.

1:43:33>> Okay. That that is a gap because that is

1:43:35not addressed. That probably needs to be

1:43:37put into the special considerations.

1:43:40Um that would add a need for officers

1:43:44over a certain amount and

1:43:46500 is probably

1:43:48>> I mean, we require the schools to have

1:43:50them for a football game. We had 680

1:43:52people at the last game. So, I mean, I I

1:43:54think 500 is a good threshold number

1:43:56that we want.

1:43:57So, I would ask the department chief

1:43:59bar, but

1:44:00what is the threshold number that you

1:44:02think?

1:44:03>> I mean,

1:44:04certainly, I'm not an expert on, you

1:44:06know,

1:44:07what's the ratio of officers per, you

1:44:10know,

1:44:10square footage of folks and

1:44:12density and things like that. I would

1:44:14think 500

1:44:15would probably be a good threshold

1:44:18for the acquiring

1:44:20>> So,

1:44:21I want to make sure I'm understanding

1:44:22this. So, if it's not an alcohol event,

1:44:26if you have over 500, you still need to

1:44:27have off-duty officers.

1:44:29>> That that's our recommendation.

1:44:31>> Okay.

1:44:31>> And I agree with that recommendation. I

1:44:32think it's very prudent. It's amazing

1:44:35having those officers there for, like

1:44:36you said, crowd control and right and

1:44:38and the look and it really helps with,

1:44:39you know, like you said, with deterrence

1:44:41as well with folks in your event. So, I

1:44:43agree with that. And so, now hearing

1:44:46that process again, it adds another

1:44:49layer cuz not all events that are

1:44:51special events are events that people

1:44:53are making a profit from. And so, what

1:44:55I'm trying to think of is the folks that

1:44:57are their their main goal is to bring

1:44:59that foot traffic downtown into our

1:45:01community, things like Air Force Day,

1:45:02Air Force Nights, events like that,

1:45:04right? And then other nonprofits that

1:45:06are trying to do those similar projects

1:45:08when they're coming with that very hefty

1:45:11price tag of that. And I'm not sure, cuz

1:45:13I'm not city manager, of how we could

1:45:15work around that for this specific

1:45:17policy,

1:45:18but I do believe that it shouldn't be

1:45:20that big of a hindrance when community

1:45:23members are trying to organize those

1:45:24events, if that That sense.

1:45:26>> And I hear where you're coming from. You

1:45:27know, I've I've dealt with the same

1:45:28thing. It's expensive to have events.

1:45:31I I guess my hang-up with it is if

1:45:34the person or the organization having

1:45:35the event is not paying for it, somebody

1:45:37is. And so we I mean if if that's

1:45:40something the city's going to take on,

1:45:41that's going to be a pretty large

1:45:43expense.

1:45:45>> I I I think we'll have to go back to the

1:45:48drawing board and have a discussion with

1:45:51between HR, police, and and

1:45:55administration

1:45:56to figure out how that would lay out and

1:45:59then what would be the cost because uh

1:46:02you know, overtime

1:46:04is different for every type of officer.

1:46:06So then it we get into well, you know,

1:46:09that's why we go to the flat $35 rate.

1:46:11>> Yeah.

1:46:12>> Um that tries to capture all the various

1:46:15thresholds of individuals. So um

1:46:20we generally don't pay overtime. So

1:46:25and then the question would be

1:46:28if they're

1:46:30if they're not already on duty,

1:46:34then the and they come in and work for

1:46:36us in an overtime position,

1:46:39they're we're paying them their regular

1:46:41hourly salary salary plus the overtime.

1:46:46>> Yeah.

1:46:46>> Which

1:46:47you're asking the city to absorb the

1:46:49cost for that.

1:46:52Uh at least un- unless there's going to

1:46:54be a charge.

1:46:56You know, what are we what are we

1:46:57charging to the event? Are we charging

1:47:00just the overtime? Well, then we're

1:47:02still absorbing

1:47:03>> the salary

1:47:04>> the salary of that individual as a city

1:47:07for someone who wants to have an event.

1:47:09That's a special event.

1:47:11>> Yeah. I Unfortunately, I think so, too.

1:47:14I And I know how much that is a

1:47:15hindrance that is for for nonprofits. I

1:47:17deal with it every day. But I I just

1:47:19don't I there's a way that we're going

1:47:21to be able to to cover that.

1:47:24>> So, I mean we can look at it if you want

1:47:25us to and and bring something back cuz I

1:47:28>> I believe we we should look at it and

1:47:30see if there's an option to be able to

1:47:32do it because again, like you just said,

1:47:34Hunter, there's nonprofits in our

1:47:35community that have continued to try to

1:47:36do this and it's a big hindrance and I

1:47:38don't think we should continue to let

1:47:40hindrances happen that this as a city,

1:47:42it's our responsibility to allow for

1:47:44folks to be able to if they want to do

1:47:45events to help that foot traffic

1:47:46downtown which we vitally need and we

1:47:48talk about then that's a in my mind a

1:47:51good

1:47:52ability for us to be able to help

1:47:54encourage in our community cuz that is a

1:47:57good investment on businesses downtown

1:47:59having that foot traffic for their doors

1:48:01to stay open. So, I would look favorably

1:48:03on that.

1:48:06>> Okay.

1:48:08>> Only

1:48:09I have one thing while you were talking

1:48:11I did a little research on the crowd

1:48:13control.

1:48:14Uh

1:48:15I mean there's a course short course

1:48:17that's all self

1:48:19uh paced.

1:48:20You establish a relationship with fire

1:48:22code officials, review fire safety and

1:48:24evacuation plans,

1:48:26review public safety plans, understand

1:48:28life safety systems, perform pre-event

1:48:31checks, perform during event checks,

1:48:33perform evacuation procedures. And it is

1:48:36this is training that doesn't have to be

1:48:38a fire code official, it doesn't have to

1:48:40be a firefighter. It can be someone in

1:48:42the general public or an employee or a

1:48:44committee member that was assisting with

1:48:47the event that does this training to

1:48:50understand

1:48:51uh the plans that's laid out to help

1:48:53control crowd managers. So, that

1:48:55wouldn't be a a necessity for

1:48:58to pay the fire department to come out

1:49:00and do that or or have us there to do

1:49:02that. It's something that even the

1:49:04public can take this course and be

1:49:05certified crowd control.

1:49:07>> That's good to know. That's good to

1:49:08know.

1:49:08>> Thank you.

1:49:09>> Thank you for that.

1:49:10>> All right. So, we will not ask So, do we

1:49:14want to move this forward and address

1:49:16the police

1:49:17because that really falls out of the

1:49:20application process um other than how

1:49:23many police you may or may not need. Um

1:49:25but we can address the we can we can

1:49:28bring back to you next month our

1:49:31findings on the expense side and see if

1:49:34we can come up with methods to address

1:49:37that. Um

1:49:39as far as

1:49:40trying to figure out a way to to make it

1:49:42so it more nonprofits can potentially

1:49:46have an event. Um

1:49:49without the city incurring these costs

1:49:51or significant cost for that activity.

1:49:56Is that

1:49:57>> I'm fine with moving to uh you

1:49:59>> Move it to briefing?

1:50:00>> Yep.

1:50:01>> Motion to move to briefing.

1:50:02>> And I'll second that. That has been

1:50:03moved to briefing.

1:50:06>> Okay.

1:50:07>> All right.

1:50:08So now we'll jump back up to item number

1:50:10two. Um interviews with government

1:50:12relation firms. Uh our next

1:50:16firm uh is

1:50:17uh Elevation Strategies. If you want to

1:50:20come on up and uh give your

1:50:21presentation.

1:50:24>> I will mention that Sebastian had a

1:50:26similar incident as I have in the past,

1:50:28been in a different time zone and you

1:50:30book something on your calendar and it

1:50:31keeps it in that current time zone where

1:50:32you're located at and not the time zone

1:50:35you're trying to be in. So in his

1:50:36defense I I can say that I've

1:50:38experienced that as well. But thank you

1:50:40for being here, Sebastian.

1:50:41>> Yeah, thank you everybody. Uh thank you

1:50:42members of the council. I do apologize.

1:50:44>> I was in Texas when I put this in my

1:50:45calendar and did not think of Central

1:50:47Time versus Eastern Time in that regard.

1:50:50But it is good to be with you guys. Um

1:50:52we we've sent a PowerPoint over to you

1:50:54all but really I just wanted to talk to

1:50:56you today about how I think we could

1:50:57service the city.

1:50:59Um our firm has long history both

1:51:01serving in state government and in local

1:51:05government. I'll go through some of the

1:51:06folks on our team. My name Sebastian.

1:51:08I'm the managing partner of Elevation

1:51:10Strategies. My business partner is our

1:51:13chief operating officer, John Hardister.

1:51:15Uh John served in the house for

1:51:18nearly a decade and a half. He was the

1:51:19longest-serving majority whip in the

1:51:21North Carolina House and had a

1:51:23reputation in the house of being able to

1:51:24get a lot of bills done and a lot of

1:51:26service for his district that he

1:51:28represented. Um in addition to that, one

1:51:30of our vice presidents is Patrick

1:51:32Tillman. Patrick's father served in the

1:51:34state Senate as the majority whip. Um

1:51:37Pat served on school board and county

1:51:39commissioners. Um and then one of our

1:51:42other vice presidents is Nancy Vaughan,

1:51:44who was one of the longest-serving

1:51:45mayors. So, we have a very unique

1:51:47experience of what we're able to bring

1:51:49to the table. We understand as a firm

1:51:51how it is to be in your seat, but also

1:51:53how to get things done in Raleigh. Our

1:51:55firm has been one of the fastest-growing

1:51:57firms in the state of North Carolina

1:51:59business. North Carolina recognized us

1:52:01as one of the leading lobbyist in our

1:52:03state. Because of our ability to get

1:52:05things done for our clients, we've

1:52:06secured billions in state appropriations

1:52:09and 10% in the last biennium of the

1:52:12bills that became law were direct

1:52:14lobbying efforts from our firm. Um which

1:52:17as you can imagine, thousands of bills

1:52:19are filed. What you guys

1:52:21should be interested in how how can we

1:52:22get the results for you guys? And that's

1:52:24what we've been able to do for our

1:52:25clients. We represent a lot of

1:52:27municipalities and counties, nonprofits,

1:52:29associations across the state. And we do

1:52:31so both on the state and federal level.

1:52:33So, Congressman McDowell is very close

1:52:36friend of mine. Um members of your

1:52:38delegation on the state house and Senate

1:52:40side, we've worked very closely with on

1:52:42state and local government as well. But

1:52:45happy to answer any questions. Um I did

1:52:47not bring the politicians with me, so I

1:52:49won't dodge anything and I'm happy to

1:52:50answer anything that you guys have

1:52:51today.

1:52:53>> Have you represented uh

1:52:55towns or cities similar to our size and

1:52:59maybe some of your successes that you've

1:53:00had with them?

1:53:01>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, we we've

1:53:03represented a variety of from smaller to

1:53:05large-size governments. So, town of

1:53:07Gibsonville,

1:53:09um we've been able to secure the

1:53:10millions of dollars in the last budget

1:53:12bringing water and sewer infrastructure,

1:53:14fire truck funding, lots of key

1:53:16priorities that that council deemed as

1:53:18imperative over the last two

1:53:21budget cycles. We've been able to secure

1:53:22them funding, especially when it's tough

1:53:24time, you know, Hurricane Helene out

1:53:26west has been very challenging. And in

1:53:28addition to that, we represent the city

1:53:30of Winston-Salem where we've been able

1:53:31to get some reg reform policy done for

1:53:33them that had saved the municipality

1:53:35millions of dollars from a sign

1:53:37ordinance that passed state law. And

1:53:40finally, there

1:53:42town of

1:53:43Stokesdale up in Guilford County were

1:53:45able to get a unique

1:53:47tax policy done for them as well as get

1:53:49them in a quarter cent sales tax

1:53:51referendum for all the small towns in

1:53:53Guilford County. That has never been

1:53:55done before. It reevaluated the ad

1:53:57valorem tax distribution in the county.

1:53:59So, some of the smaller municipalities

1:54:02were able to see a huge if that does in

1:54:04fact pass, seeing millions of dollars

1:54:06come back into the towns.

1:54:08>> Thank you.

1:54:09>> Absolutely.

1:54:09>> an area that they specifically work in

1:54:12like infrastructure or other areas or

1:54:15you just broad?

1:54:16>> Uh just very broad, but

1:54:18focus specifically within the

1:54:19municipalities. We're able to, you know,

1:54:21whether it's a state ordinance, a local

1:54:23bill,

1:54:24funding streams, we've been successful

1:54:26on every front as far as local

1:54:28governments are concerned.

1:54:30>> So, I ask you the same question that

1:54:31I've asked all of our firms that got the

1:54:33chance to present in front of us. I

1:54:35think it's really important for

1:54:37lobbying firms to know the community

1:54:38they represent. And so,

1:54:40are there any issues that you see as a

1:54:41town council city council

1:54:43that you would be able to help us be

1:54:45able to push forward here locally on the

1:54:48state level?

1:54:49>> Yes, so one thing I think is super

1:54:50impactful for

1:54:52you all and as we continue for a lot of

1:54:54municipalities and counties across the

1:54:56state is how are you being represented

1:54:58on the tax policy, property taxes and

1:55:01what the state's looking at doing

1:55:03putting what they did with moratoriums

1:55:05and how they're going to address that if

1:55:06it does pass the constitutional

1:55:07amendment standpoint. We want to be able

1:55:09to bring you all's voice. We've got a

1:55:11unique approach for the city of

1:55:12Winston-Salem where we've broken down

1:55:14what a lot of folks I think

1:55:15misunderstand in Raleigh is how our

1:55:18municipal dollars being used for

1:55:19emergency services, first responders,

1:55:22and there's not a lot of leeway that you

1:55:24all have within the budget

1:55:25infrastructure for, you know, allocating

1:55:27dollars elsewhere aside from those

1:55:29purposes. So, we've been able to break

1:55:30that down, educate members, and it's

1:55:32created a very unique perspective that

1:55:34members are like, "I never thought of it

1:55:35that way." Which is great perspective as

1:55:37we head into next year's conversations

1:55:39regarding that.

1:55:41>> What does your system look like as far

1:55:43as keeping in touch or putting boots on

1:55:45the ground in our city and keeping

1:55:48contact to feel get to feel what we need

1:55:50and how we you know, we need to get

1:55:52those dollars for what specific

1:55:53projects?

1:55:54>> Yeah, so when I worked so High Point is

1:55:56very big on that when I represent the

1:55:58city of High Point. We tried to be there

1:55:59at least every other week.

1:56:01We're a lot of our folks are based in

1:56:03the Triad. So, we have boots on the

1:56:05ground here. Not a far drive for a lot

1:56:07of our folks to be on the ground meeting

1:56:09with staff, meeting with community

1:56:10members as you guys deem fit.

1:56:13We're happy to be here as often as you

1:56:14guys need us to be. And still be

1:56:17represented on the state and federal

1:56:18level at the same time.

1:56:20>> Um

1:56:21similar question. Your your fee I see in

1:56:23the presentations 15,000 a month.

1:56:26Correct?

1:56:26>> That's and that's for state and federal.

1:56:28>> State and federal. So,

1:56:30tell us what that gets us.

1:56:33You know, how often are you in town or

1:56:34we coming to Raleigh? Kind of kind of

1:56:36how you all

1:56:38>> Yeah, absolutely. So, what we'd like to

1:56:39do is so we're in town as often as you

1:56:41need us to be.

1:56:43And but having days of action I think

1:56:45are so vital to success. You know, they

1:56:47see us every day, which is great. We're

1:56:49very effective at what we do, but they

1:56:50want to see their constituents. We want

1:56:52to get you guys in front of

1:56:53appropriators and staff. So, I'd like to

1:56:55see

1:56:56days on the hill both on the state

1:56:58legislative side and Capitol Hill.

1:57:00Probably Washington once a session,

1:57:02maybe twice if we have a lot of key

1:57:04priority ask. And that's meeting with

1:57:06your members of the day delegation, your

1:57:08senator, your house representative, but

1:57:10also appropriation staff and

1:57:11appropriation members.

1:57:14So at least once or twice on Capitol

1:57:16Hill and maybe a few times throughout

1:57:18the session in the state legislature.

1:57:20>> Thank you.

1:57:21Are there any other questions?

1:57:23No.

1:57:24>> I know you mentioned Madison McDowell as

1:57:25far as being a close personal friend.

1:57:27Anybody else on the federal level that

1:57:29you guys have a close tie to?

1:57:31>> Yeah, absolutely. So

1:57:32Congressman Sam Graves, I've worked very

1:57:34closely with him. So transportation

1:57:35projects, water projects that we're

1:57:37seeing as a need all across the um

1:57:40the state.

1:57:42Those folks are key decision-makers for

1:57:44us

1:57:44as far as water and sewer is concerned.

1:57:47Senator Budd is a very close friend of

1:57:49mine, Senator Tillis.

1:57:50These are folks that I've worked with

1:57:52successfully to get appropriations for

1:57:53members. Um And and across and of course

1:57:56there's other members

1:57:58across the country that we work with,

1:57:59but those are our closest relationships.

1:58:01>> the

1:58:02the two people running this fall?

1:58:04>> So

1:58:04>> Cooper and Whitley.

1:58:05>> Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So

1:58:08Whitley, we've had him come out to

1:58:09several tours of our clients. The

1:58:11governor has been out to we're

1:58:13coordinating with former governor's team

1:58:15to come out and visit Jet Zero, who's

1:58:17another one of our clients.

1:58:20>> Good deal. Well, thank you for coming

1:58:21today and speaking to us about it. We

1:58:23appreciate it.

1:58:24>> Thank you all.

1:58:24>> Thank you guys.

1:58:25>> much.

1:58:32>> Um

1:58:36I

1:58:37You may want to digest the information

1:58:40we heard today and if we want to maybe

1:58:42put an item um

1:58:44>> What was Sam's cost? I don't know.

1:58:46>> Yeah, so I actually had Eddie look it

1:58:48up. So Sam's cost um was

1:58:5230 3,600 per month for state and then um

1:58:56for for federal and state was 5,000.

1:59:00>> That's the first one that I heard.

1:59:04>> I would um I would

1:59:06I'd personally rule out the last one. It

1:59:08would just just too expensive. The

1:59:1015,000 is just That that's

1:59:13That's Yeah.

1:59:15So, I I would say it would be between

1:59:16the two.

1:59:18I don't know if

1:59:19you want to make that decision now or if

1:59:21you want to digest it make it later, but

1:59:22I'm over

1:59:24Okay.

1:59:25Is that how y'all

1:59:26feel?

1:59:27Okay. Maybe we can

1:59:29revisit at briefing next week and and

1:59:32Peyton will be here then, too. So.

1:59:35Is that okay?

1:59:36>> Yeah, that's fine. The fourth firm we

1:59:38were never able to get contact with.

1:59:39>> Don't worry about it. She She

1:59:43Yeah.

1:59:44She would They wouldn't rank

1:59:46compared to these, so.

1:59:48All right.

1:59:48Yeah.

1:59:50All right, good deal.

1:59:52All right, so we'll jump back to I item

1:59:55number five. Um, why don't we Can we

1:59:58Let's do a quick break. Yeah. Okay.

2:00:29>> Yeah.

2:00:33>> New frame, was there 5,000 for both as

2:00:35well?

2:00:38>> They they said they were federal.

2:00:41They all did.

2:00:42>> Yeah, I don't know.

2:00:43I'm sure Christie can

2:00:45answer that.

2:00:47I think yeah, that'd be a good idea.

2:00:55>> I met a firm when I was in DC that does

2:00:59work mostly federal work.

2:01:02And state and local too.

2:01:03They were

2:01:05terrible actually.

2:01:09So that's a

2:01:10I'm sure it is.

2:01:1415,000

2:01:15What's that on the month?

2:01:19So we're paying works for a while now.

2:04:39>> Mhm.

2:06:34>> Mhm.

2:08:29>> Mhm.

2:15:45>> All right, we're going to come back to

2:15:47order here.

2:15:49Um

2:15:51we're going to

2:15:52talk lunch plans real real quick.

2:15:54Michael, what are we going to do? Pizza?

2:15:56>> That that's my recommendation because

2:15:58it's the

2:15:59best affordable way of doing it. So,

2:16:03um

2:16:04is Is a choice of pizza place?

2:16:09>> Elizabeth, I love supporting local.

2:16:12>> That's fine.

2:16:14I'm fine with either. It doesn't matter.

2:16:18>> Let's hear your best argument for each.

2:16:21That's right.

2:16:22That's right.

2:16:23>> I'm just kidding.

2:16:24I don't either one. It doesn't matter.

2:16:26What

2:16:29>> Didn't we do this last?

2:16:30>> Which one was it?

2:16:31>> I don't remember.

2:16:32>> I said which one was it?

2:16:34>> Switch it around. Do you do

2:16:35>> Southgate Southgate or uptown?

2:16:38>> I would say uptown.

2:16:41>> I would say you could switch it to

2:16:42>> Hey, just order a pizza. I don't care

2:16:43where you order it from.

2:16:45>> Order pizza

2:16:46>> Yeah.

2:16:47>> from

2:16:50>> Your choice.

2:16:51>> Your choice.

2:16:53>> Yeah, you're just order pizza from your

2:16:54choice.

2:16:55>> And a mixture of

2:16:57Is there any food allergy?

2:17:01>> Do I look like I have a

2:17:05>> Cheese, pepperoni

2:17:06>> Ham and pineapple.

2:17:07>> Mhm.

2:17:09>> I like it.

2:17:10I like hamburger now.

2:17:11>> Yeah, me too.

2:17:13>> All right.

2:17:14Cheese, I I heard hamburger, I heard

2:17:17pineap- pepperoni, hamburger, and I

2:17:19heard pineapple and ham.

2:17:22>> Sounds good.

2:17:24>> Hawaiian pizza.

2:17:25>> Mhm.

2:17:26>> All right, good deal. All right, so

2:17:28we're going to come back to order here.

2:17:29We'll jump to item number five, which is

2:17:32our Carver Park Strickland Center

2:17:33Redevelopment update.

2:17:35>> Mr. Floyd

2:17:36>> What's Michael?

2:17:37What's

2:17:41He thought

2:17:42that was um

2:17:44Mr. Johnson and he thought that he that

2:17:47there was an opportunity to speak at the

2:17:48meeting.

2:17:50>> I told him come back

2:17:51>> Sorry, he sat there that long.

2:17:53>> Came back He'll come back on the 21st.

2:17:55>> Okay.

2:17:57All right, good morning everyone.

2:17:59Got some good updates for the Carver

2:18:01Park Strickland project. Um that's do a

2:18:04little overview of what we received so

2:18:06far during the design designing

2:18:08conceptual process. Um I'm going to pull

2:18:10those docs up now. You do have some of

2:18:12the design photos

2:18:14um within your packets. Um

2:18:17that design came in at a hefty price. Uh

2:18:20it it came in

2:18:22um approximately around $6 million. So,

2:18:24when that came in from a feasibility

2:18:26standpoint,

2:18:27uh

2:18:28the managers and myself said we can't uh

2:18:30entertain that, uh but we want to reduce

2:18:33the cost um in areas that we can. So, I

2:18:36wanted to go over that whole overview,

2:18:38kind of see where we're landing now, um

2:18:41but show you what we have um started.

2:18:44So,

2:18:45I'm going to get the reins here.

2:18:48There you go. So, uh the initial

2:18:50conceptual design and things that we

2:18:51were provided in August were was this

2:18:53facility here.

2:18:55Um is that on your screen? So, I can see

2:18:57that. Okay. So, what this looks like is

2:19:01a

2:19:02um

2:19:02I'd like to get into this first.

2:19:05An overview of the facility is an open

2:19:07space uh for participants um to gather

2:19:10for uh meetings, uh community events,

2:19:13different programs. We talked about that

2:19:15last time, uh Councilman Johnson, about

2:19:17being able to utilize the space in a

2:19:18variety of ways.

2:19:20Um and then obviously have a warming

2:19:22kitchen as we do at the pool, uh

2:19:24restroom facilities, and um

2:19:27lobby vestibular areas.

2:19:29Um the outside patio is there. Um

2:19:33that would oversee the park space, and

2:19:35you have mechanical required rooms um to

2:19:38be able to utilize for the facility.

2:19:40>> You know, I see it says office stairs.

2:19:42Is this going to be manned all the time

2:19:43with somebody using it or

2:19:44>> So, it would be hope well, staffed, yes,

2:19:47for rentals and things that we do at the

2:19:48pool, um but it's similar to the office

2:19:51here. When there's an event going on or

2:19:52during the summer season, Evander kind

2:19:54of moves his location here. Um if we run

2:19:56some day camps out of it or after school

2:19:58afternoon activity, you want to be able

2:20:00to utilize it for that. But it wouldn't

2:20:02necessarily be something that would

2:20:03house a full-time employee alone on site

2:20:07all day long. But it is

2:20:10>> Will we have somebody from staff there

2:20:11during events?

2:20:12>> Oh, yes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

2:20:14But what we did with this, as you can

2:20:16see, one thing that we learned through

2:20:18the process is you start getting larger

2:20:19prices and you're like, well, how do we

2:20:21reduce that? Obviously, we have a grant

2:20:23amount of 3.1 million that we're trying

2:20:25to get as close to as possible. Um

2:20:28but where is the reduction? You know,

2:20:30where can What does that look like? And

2:20:32so,

2:20:33one thing that we realized during our

2:20:34conversation is the event space is

2:20:36approximately 100

2:20:38folks. So, it hold 100 people in that

2:20:41room.

2:20:42Our Ballpark Community Center holds

2:20:45150

2:20:47ish.

2:20:48And then, the current facility holds 50.

2:20:51The interesting thing about the square

2:20:52footage for this space is we realized

2:20:55when we started pulling up blueprints

2:20:57that our party room across the hall is

2:20:581,100 square feet.

2:21:00So, when you start thinking about how

2:21:02big do you want a room,

2:21:06this is 400 square feet larger than the

2:21:08room across the hall when it's fully

2:21:09opened. So, we've had events in there.

2:21:11You see how that feels. So, that's kind

2:21:13of help you picture a little bit more

2:21:15the size and breadth of the facility.

2:21:17When we did the conceptual design, it

2:21:18was it looks like the Greensboro

2:21:20Coliseum. We talked about that. I was

2:21:21like, this thing looks massive.

2:21:23So, we went through the process with our

2:21:27architects and design

2:21:29to look at areas to remove. One thing

2:21:33that we realized in that first initial

2:21:34cost that was exorbitant that we had

2:21:36started to review was there was

2:21:38different materials and things that were

2:21:41impacting some of the cost of to to go

2:21:44higher.

2:21:45One of the things projected within the

2:21:47facility was a product called CLT. It's

2:21:49a timber that was used for the

2:21:51structural components of the entire

2:21:52building was what they were projecting.

2:21:54It's a very nice

2:21:56um addition, obviously. Uh it's um

2:21:59um wood timbers that really is the

2:22:00structure of your facility.

2:22:02Um but that isn't necessarily what you

2:22:04have to have. This is a facility that is

2:22:07a metal structured um beams. Um

2:22:10obviously drywall around that. Um

2:22:12but that was a cost reduction. Uh we

2:22:15started going through each area of

2:22:17square footage reductions to see

2:22:19um in comparison of what we had. Uh we

2:22:22did some square footage comparisons of

2:22:24the rooms that we have here in

2:22:27comparison to what they're projecting

2:22:28there. Um and so we started cutting

2:22:31areas

2:22:33um that we thought were conducive to

2:22:36not needing as much room. Um when you

2:22:38see the warming kitchen reducing, that

2:22:40would mean it would be similar to the

2:22:41size of what we have here.

2:22:43Um which serves this facility pretty

2:22:45well.

2:22:46Um so there was some small cuts there.

2:22:48Um

2:22:50One of the bigger things too on the

2:22:51exterior was the glass that you see

2:22:55um projected uh in the initial um

2:22:59renderings. Uh one thing about that is

2:23:01once you extend in height with grass

2:23:03glass, you go beyond a

2:23:06typical storefront height of glass that

2:23:10you can order where you have a 12-ft

2:23:12glass. This is more structural where you

2:23:14have a 12-ft style that then is a little

2:23:17bit of a cost reduction. So one area

2:23:20that you'll see, this is the first

2:23:22projections of the facility and it kind

2:23:24of gives you a little bit of a better

2:23:25dimension of what it would look like

2:23:27instead of the conceptual design, uh

2:23:29which was the colorful illustration.

2:23:32But what you see here is glass all the

2:23:34way up to the 22-ft peaks,

2:23:37uh 18-ft peaks I believe on the on the

2:23:39front side of the facility.

2:23:41Uh and then some glass in the back um

2:23:44where the patio area is. What we were

2:23:47identified is

2:23:49that glass was really

2:23:53an impactful addition. So, there is the

2:23:56ability to reduce the glass

2:23:59and do some concrete

2:24:01style

2:24:03or fiber cement where it's more paneled

2:24:06at the very top, but still have

2:24:0812-footed glass all the way around the

2:24:11meeting room. So, where you see this

2:24:13area is what I'm

2:24:15referring to

2:24:17um

2:24:19to help reduce cost.

2:24:20Another component that is doable to

2:24:23reduce cost is a

2:24:26um

2:24:27cement style base where you have brick

2:24:31and and cement up to a certain level and

2:24:34then you find a more cost-conducive

2:24:37product for your walls. So, instead of

2:24:39being brick all the way up, you find a

2:24:42way to use metal or a cement fiber to

2:24:45not impact the price as much.

2:24:48Um

2:24:50that then

2:24:52let's see.

2:24:56Reduces some of the things that you we

2:24:58did talk about lowering the roof just a

2:24:59bit, but however, if you lower the roof

2:25:02too much, we got in the same comment

2:25:04that we had about, well, but we're going

2:25:05to be in a area where you want to be

2:25:07able to see the facility from the street

2:25:08so you can't go

2:25:10Height is important for this facility.

2:25:12Um

2:25:14So, with all that said, um we then turn

2:25:18to

2:25:19the site. Well, I'll show you an example

2:25:21of this is a facility in

2:25:24um Greensboro that kind of does a

2:25:28concrete base and then a cement fiber

2:25:31metal style wall above a certain area

2:25:35that still gives a design um

2:25:38and which I think is a pretty facility.

2:25:40And and um it does reduce

2:25:43a material cost, um, which is is nice to

2:25:47see uh when we're thinking about budget.

2:25:49Um,

2:25:51but then the other component of the site

2:25:53that was extremely cost

2:25:56uh

2:25:57im- impactful to the cost was our site

2:25:59in general.

2:26:00Um,

2:26:02with within the 6 million that was

2:26:04projected in the first round, four

2:26:07was approximately four was the facility

2:26:10and 2.5 was the uh

2:26:13uh site. Uh we started talking to site

2:26:15and started to try to figure out why

2:26:17that looked that way

2:26:18uh and how cost could be reduced there.

2:26:21Um,

2:26:23there was a lot of concrete, a lot of um

2:26:28concrete for retaining walls, a lot of

2:26:30concrete for uh some of the space out

2:26:34beyond the plaza area.

2:26:36Um,

2:26:37but the intent of that and those that

2:26:40have been on site understand too, y'all

2:26:43do, y'all get it. It's a it's a

2:26:44retaining wall

2:26:46that for the parking lot. Um,

2:26:48one thing about this park space that is

2:26:51tough is parking. That was one of the

2:26:53biggest things that came out of the the

2:26:55process. Um,

2:26:58and and

2:27:00where you add a 56 car parking lot here

2:27:03at the pool

2:27:05facility, you still had on-street

2:27:07parking. You don't really have on-street

2:27:09parking at Carver Park. You have

2:27:11um

2:27:12only the parking lot there.

2:27:15Um,

2:27:15so we are trying to maintain

2:27:19roughly um

2:27:2350-ish spaces, 59, 56 spaces. Right now

2:27:26you see 42 spaces. Um,

2:27:30and 17 spaces on the opposite side of

2:27:32the facility. Um,

2:27:35we we determined that some of the uh

2:27:39concrete

2:27:41walls maybe aren't necessarily needed.

2:27:43They could be graded instead.

2:27:46Um

2:27:47I can't remember if it was Eddie or

2:27:49Michael, but moving the building a

2:27:51little bit, shifting it, would reduce

2:27:53some of the pillar size, so that's a

2:27:54little reduction in cost as well. That

2:27:57was a suggestion, and that doesn't

2:27:58impact flood plain stuff that we had to

2:28:00address. Um

2:28:03And so

2:28:05that with the reduction in

2:28:09site enhancements and a little bit of a

2:28:12different material look, the price that

2:28:15came in on Friday afternoon was a more

2:28:17projected at 4.6. Um she called

2:28:21our our architect called to check in. I

2:28:23said, "I'm talking to council because

2:28:25we're starting to get into a situation

2:28:27with the facility where we obviously are

2:28:29seeking council's guidance

2:28:32um because when you start looking at the

2:28:34facility,

2:28:35um

2:28:36it's just like any other facility that

2:28:38we have. Like, how many ways can it be

2:28:39used? How many What can we do? Um

2:28:42>> Let me jump in here for just 1 second

2:28:44before.

2:28:44Uh the way I'm looking at this is we

2:28:47committed to doing this project before

2:28:50we ever knew we were going to get this

2:28:51ground.

2:28:52There's only so much you can take away

2:28:55from from a building.

2:28:58I want to get this right, and if that

2:29:00means that we have to spend a million to

2:29:02get uh the 3.5 and then end up with

2:29:06almost $5 million building for 3.5. I

2:29:09I'm okay with that.

2:29:10>> million and a half, right? That's what

2:29:11you're saying?

2:29:11>> Yeah.

2:29:12Projection-wise,

2:29:14um I always caution that as you don't

2:29:16know what a price is until you rip open

2:29:19a sealed bid. Um we're working This is a

2:29:22professional company that's working with

2:29:23us to project these costs. This is just

2:29:25how a design goes. Um I think that

2:29:29um landing the grant funding that Eddie

2:29:31was able to find through PTRC and is

2:29:34huge. Obviously for the impact of what

2:29:36we face as a budget, but when you start

2:29:40and I appreciate those comments, Hunter,

2:29:41but when you start you're right. I mean,

2:29:43when you get when you start looking at

2:29:45the facility, we do have to weigh

2:29:48what where you want to go with it

2:29:50because again, this

2:29:52is a fantastic facility. It should honor

2:29:55the honor the history of the park

2:29:57through the the lobby area, the event

2:29:59space, but you do want it usable, right?

2:30:01And so

2:30:03a 100 person room

2:30:05is 400 square feet more than what's

2:30:08across the hall. So, to think of that

2:30:10rectangular square footage, you have to

2:30:12think about that. Now, obviously the

2:30:13deck area is a great component. One

2:30:16thing we didn't talk about was the

2:30:19ability to do some

2:30:21accordion style glass that raises up to

2:30:24allow inside outside again as we've

2:30:27done. So, some environmental

2:30:29programming. So, being able to use that

2:30:31for your square footage of an event is

2:30:33nice.

2:30:35I've talked to with fire about

2:30:37potentially being able to maybe put some

2:30:39anchors on this porch to do some high

2:30:42rope stuff down into the training. I

2:30:44mean, trying to think of ways that we're

2:30:46getting our bang for our buck while

2:30:47still partnering with the different

2:30:49obviously departments within our city

2:30:52as we do with this facility. So, it's

2:30:54like how many ways can it be used?

2:30:57But we do start getting out a little bit

2:30:59of an impact of

2:31:01We don't want to short this project out.

2:31:02We want it to be right and we want it to

2:31:04to be

2:31:05>> This is not this is not the project to

2:31:07start chopping away yet.

2:31:09>> And we don't want to pay for it twice.

2:31:11>> No. No, so

2:31:13>> So, I think

2:31:15what our our our update is a little bit

2:31:18of guidance. So, like we they were

2:31:19supposed to present this month.

2:31:20Obviously, we're on a timeline

2:31:22of

2:31:24grant funding and expenditures for for

2:31:26>> to spend that money by?

2:31:27>> 2.2 have to has to be spent by next

2:31:30August. The 900 or the 850 is still

2:31:33another year out beyond that.

2:31:35>> I don't have a problem with the 4.5.

2:31:37>> Yeah.

2:31:39I couldn't have said it better than

2:31:40Councilman Thrift.

2:31:42>> But I I know that raises the question of

2:31:44where where where you want to pull the

2:31:46million from.

2:31:48>> Yeah.

2:31:49>> For sure.

2:31:53>> Then that's what I'd do.

2:31:56>> You know, this I will say that's the

2:31:59point of having fund balance. It is for

2:32:01capital projects.

2:32:04But the four point So, when you throw

2:32:06out the number 4.5, that's just the

2:32:08building.

2:32:11Sorry.

2:32:12Sorry.

2:32:13Uh

2:32:14the 4.5 is the original cost of what the

2:32:17building expectation was.

2:32:19But we But we also have the grounds and

2:32:24cutting the price down

2:32:27was also affecting the grounds and

2:32:29what's what's available on the grounds.

2:32:31And And one of the concerns I have is

2:32:33making sure there's enough parking for

2:32:35the facility because unlike this

2:32:37facility,

2:32:38we don't have on-street parking is

2:32:41available as as here. So, we've got to

2:32:44try to get as many

2:32:46uh

2:32:46parking spaces on there. So,

2:32:49when you say 4.5 million, do you want

2:32:524.5 million for the whole project?

2:32:54>> So, I My understanding was it was

2:32:56everything. Is that not

2:32:58>> No. No, no, no. Seven almost seven six

2:33:01What is it? 6.

2:33:02>> It There's

2:33:03But the red line updates that I just

2:33:06provided brought the

2:33:09current projection

2:33:10>> For total project?

2:33:11>> in

2:33:13this range. 2.9 for the uh

2:33:16>> And what did that I I don't remember

2:33:18what that did to the grounds.

2:33:19>> It it took away some of that wall that

2:33:22you alluded to cuz there was a huge

2:33:24retaining wall into the hillside instead

2:33:27of

2:33:28just grading.

2:33:30It reduced some of the areas of uh

2:33:34parking depth and the staircase down to

2:33:37the other basketball court. It removed

2:33:39the serenity garden concrete, it made it

2:33:42a rain garden instead, and it shifted

2:33:45the side a little bit to reduce some of

2:33:46the pillar.

2:33:47>> And and there's no basketball court or

2:33:50picnic shelter.

2:33:50>> It's leaving the amenities at the

2:33:52moment. Now, the picnic shelter

2:33:54is still usable. So, that actually could

2:33:56shift on site, I still think, at a

2:33:58minimal cost.

2:33:59>> On the retaining wall,

2:34:01there's no Do we Do they say it'd be

2:34:03safe to remove that? Or was Because my

2:34:05feeling is if it was there to begin

2:34:07with, there's a reason why they put it

2:34:08They wanted it there.

2:34:11>> There was a There was a retaining wall,

2:34:13and it's hard to explain.

2:34:15So, the hillside where the steps

2:34:18currently are, there was a large

2:34:20retaining wall there. That was more of a

2:34:23feature instead of

2:34:27necessary.

2:34:28The retaining walls around the parking

2:34:30lots

2:34:31needed.

2:34:34So, this are the new numbers. So, and

2:34:37this is where

2:34:38>> Is that included in the ground That's

2:34:39included in the parking lot and

2:34:40everything? That's the main thing I want

2:34:42to make sure is the parking lot

2:34:45and we end up with the same number of

2:34:47at least 50 parking spaces.

2:34:49>> That was one, and I'll pull that one

2:34:51back up.

2:34:51>> I'm sorry, I just don't remember, right.

2:34:53>> No, it's okay.

2:34:54This is

2:34:55calling out 42 still. So, the blue lines

2:34:58were the new addition.

2:35:00A smaller retaining wall

2:35:02and instead of

2:35:05tearing up, it was milling and

2:35:09resurfacing cuz they were talking about

2:35:11a full demo of the parking lot. That's

2:35:12cost. And so, it's like, "Well, don't do

2:35:14that. Just mill and and add."

2:35:17And then you should

2:35:19cuz we did ask cuz obviously the circle

2:35:21is a big component of the layout.

2:35:24And we asked

2:35:27how does that impact the parking to the

2:35:29side? And it

2:35:31to to our understanding it doesn't. If

2:35:33you adjust the circle, you still have

2:35:34the parking down towards the current

2:35:35facility. Um so

2:35:39to my understanding

2:35:42um

2:35:44that does include keeping a substantial

2:35:46amount of parking.

2:35:47Um because again

2:35:48so for and it's nice to have the ability

2:35:51to compare to what was here. 56 spots

2:35:54out front.

2:35:55You have 56 spots here including the

2:35:57circle.

2:35:58So that kind of tells you

2:36:01when you have an event of a certain

2:36:02amount of size, obviously it doesn't

2:36:04matter for like huge pool days cuz you

2:36:06have the street and that's just a huge

2:36:07crowd. And and this event shouldn't or

2:36:09center shouldn't hold.

2:36:11>> Well, I don't see any way they increase

2:36:12all the parking to to match here. I mean

2:36:15you're just going to have to deal with

2:36:16what we've got.

2:36:16>> Right.

2:36:17>> I I think they're 50s.

2:36:18>> The Yeah, we're in the 50s though,

2:36:20right?

2:36:20>> We're still I mean 42 and 17.

2:36:22>> Yeah, 42 and 17. I I think that's

2:36:25>> But then you figure they were at two to

2:36:27a car. That's they've maxed out the

2:36:29>> I I just I just wanted to make sure cuz

2:36:31I couldn't remember whether the removing

2:36:33the retaining wall

2:36:35affected our parking significantly.

2:36:36>> Now, the one thing that I will say about

2:36:38the proposed costs that we just pulled

2:36:39up is that obviously though within

2:36:42projects there's design costs and some

2:36:44contingency that would need to be

2:36:46considered. So that was hard price and

2:36:48then things happen. I mean I you know, I

2:36:50don't know the answer to that.

2:36:51>> We all know. We've been through

2:36:53projects. Cost has potential to go up

2:36:55and

2:36:56>> stays the same.

2:36:57>> It doesn't and I'm okay with it. You you

2:36:59know, I don't love spending undesignated

2:37:01fund balance, but in this case

2:37:03>> But we've already committed to this

2:37:04project.

2:37:04>> We're getting We've committed to it.

2:37:05We're getting a $4.6 million building

2:37:08for a million dollars. And I'm willing

2:37:10to spend that. So

2:37:11>> That's a good return on investment.

2:37:14>> So, there you go.

2:37:15>> And I'm like you, I'm stingy with the

2:37:17dollars, but

2:37:18>> It's needed here.

2:37:18>> But, you know, we've already got 3

2:37:19million that we could use. So,

2:37:22give me three and I'll come up with a

2:37:23million.

2:37:23>> I do I will say that it before the

2:37:25project started,

2:37:27if we would have known that we could do

2:37:28a million and a half to million dollars

2:37:30to get three

2:37:31grant, we would be pursuing those like

2:37:33crazy.

2:37:34>> Absolutely.

2:37:35>> That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm

2:37:35saying.

2:37:36>> If we're going to get three for one

2:37:38>> Yes, sir.

2:37:39>> We were.

2:37:39>> If we could get three for one, I'll do

2:37:41that every day.

2:37:42>> Absolutely. Return on the investment

2:37:43there. So, do you want CPL to stay? For

2:37:46our timeline, would you want them to

2:37:48consider presenting

2:37:50this month cuz that is something that

2:37:51we're planning to do.

2:37:53>> Cuz it sounds like the timeline it it

2:37:55takes a long time to build this. So,

2:37:57>> We'll need to be moving.

2:38:00>> And we're on a deadline with this, too,

2:38:02with the money.

2:38:02>> Yes, sir. I would say go ahead and get

2:38:04them in to present this month.

2:38:06>> Okay.

2:38:07>> Y'all okay with that down there?

2:38:10Are y'all

2:38:11>> Okay. Good good to go.

2:38:12>> Okay. Thank you, Corey. That's great.

2:38:14That's

2:38:19>> Do we need We don't need to take any

2:38:20action on that today, do we?

2:38:22>> No, that was I just

2:38:23>> That's just a update of where

2:38:25where it was landing cuz the first was a

2:38:26little bit of a joke and

2:38:29to keep everybody on the same page of

2:38:30where we're at.

2:38:31>> Just like we said, we've already

2:38:31committed to it and now we get 3 million

2:38:33dollars to spend a million.

2:38:34>> Well, you know, there's always in the

2:38:36beginning off the first proposal some

2:38:37cuts to be made. They're trying to make

2:38:39money, too.

2:38:40>> So, I think some of that's materials and

2:38:42and I understand that, but we would try

2:38:43I mean, obviously, we want to be as

2:38:46wise as we can with the funding anyway.

2:38:47That's our intent with every project.

2:38:50Good deal. Thank you, Corey.

2:38:54>> They They intend is for them to present

2:38:56at the council meeting briefly.

2:38:58>> Thank you, Randy.

2:38:59>> That'd be great.

2:39:02>> We need to move to briefing?

2:39:02>> No no, sir. We don't.

2:39:05>> All right. Um

2:39:06moving on to item number eight, which is

2:39:09consideration approval of grant project

2:39:10ordinance for the CDBG {dash} NR grant

2:39:15project. I recognize our finance

2:39:17director who has tough it out with us

2:39:19today.

2:39:20>> Thank you, sir.

2:39:21>> Um,

2:39:22this is uh so we we basically as we're

2:39:24moving forward on the project um and we

2:39:27have a contract to award for grant

2:39:29administration costs on this agenda, we

2:39:32need to establish a project budget. So

2:39:34this ordinance does just that. Um, these

2:39:37are preliminary estimates based on the

2:39:39grant amount um with a little bit of

2:39:41contingency built in.

2:39:43Um,

2:39:45typically about 10% for construction

2:39:47contingency is built into these

2:39:49projects. So if you get a change order,

2:39:51you can easily adjust to that within the

2:39:53budget. Um,

2:39:56so this overall this ordinance uh

2:39:58includes a total estimated budget of

2:40:00around $3.7 million.

2:40:03It's lower than what was just discussed.

2:40:05It sounds like we have a commitment from

2:40:07you all at some point if we need to come

2:40:09back with more fund balance, we can do

2:40:11so and adjust this budget. But for right

2:40:14now, we don't know because construction

2:40:15bids are not Could they come in lower?

2:40:17Possibly, but it's unlikely. So we'll go

2:40:20ahead and move forward with this budget.

2:40:22Um,

2:40:23it does include um $145,593

2:40:29from the recreation reserve. So we're

2:40:30cleaning that out. Um,

2:40:34and an additional around 362,000

2:40:37from unassigned fund balance

2:40:39to help us with the contingency on the

2:40:41project. So it's a total budget of

2:40:43around 3.7. It includes about 3.2, a

2:40:46little under 3.2 for construction and

2:40:49project administration costs. We're

2:40:51likely to have uh um some additional

2:40:54costs for engineering and design. So I'm

2:40:56just building in $200,000 for that.

2:40:59Um,

2:41:00and also around $308,000 for

2:41:02contingency.

2:41:04And when bids come back, we'll address

2:41:06this and we'll likely come back for more

2:41:09fund balance if needed. Um if for some

2:41:11reason the project came in lower than

2:41:13expected and was around this amount, we

2:41:15would only use that contingency if we

2:41:17needed it. So, there's a possibility

2:41:19that even though it's coming from

2:41:20unassigned fund balance, we wouldn't

2:41:22actually post that. We wouldn't actually

2:41:23pull it from the

2:41:24>> I I just want to be clear that staff is

2:41:26not making any more

2:41:29subtractions from from the the site or

2:41:31the building. It's going to stay the

2:41:33same way and know that we're willing to

2:41:35spend

2:41:36>> It sounds like there could be some minor

2:41:37adjustments that wouldn't affect it

2:41:39structurally as you go through the

2:41:41engineering design discussions.

2:41:43>> If what you what you saw today

2:41:45with the cutbacks that we already made,

2:41:48we don't go any

2:41:49>> No.

2:41:49>> any further cut.

2:41:50>> Okay. Thank you. Just wanted to make

2:41:52sure.

2:41:54>> Um

2:41:57>> So, basically, um

2:41:59you know, this just puts a budget in

2:42:00place. We do have probably a little bit

2:42:02extra built in for engineering

2:42:03engineering and design. Also, some built

2:42:06in for contingency.

2:42:07Uh these numbers are going to change.

2:42:09So, when the bids come back, we'll

2:42:11likely come back to you and we'll

2:42:12probably use some some additional

2:42:13unassigned fund balance. Um but I am

2:42:16asking that this be approved at briefing

2:42:18on regular agenda so we can move forward

2:42:20with the contracts and the construction

2:42:23when needed.

2:42:24>> Sounds good. I'll defer to the

2:42:25committee.

2:42:26>> I'll move make a motion to move

2:42:27briefing.

2:42:28>> And I will second your motion to move to

2:42:30briefing for action at briefing.

2:42:32Correct?

2:42:33>> Correct.

2:42:33>> Yeah, we're we're we're sorry.

2:42:34>> No, it's okay. I got you.

2:42:36So, that has been moved.

2:42:40All right. Um now we'll move to um item

2:42:44number 11, consideration and approval of

2:42:46the budget amendment P3-01-2026.

2:42:51>> Um so, this budget amendment obviously

2:42:52includes the funding I just mentioned

2:42:54for the uh Strickland Center and Carver

2:42:56Park grant project. Um

2:42:59so we are transferring um

2:43:02the uh

2:43:03145 around 146,000 dollars from the

2:43:07recreation reserve as a contribution as

2:43:09well as around 362,000 dollars for the

2:43:13construction contingency

2:43:15um contribution to that project. In

2:43:18addition um we're appropriating

2:43:21approximately 132,000 dollars from the

2:43:24North Carolina State Bureau of

2:43:25Investigation for 1,750 dollar

2:43:29appreciation bonuses to be paid to all

2:43:32sworn local law enforcement officers

2:43:34across the state of North Carolina.

2:43:35Those will be paid in October. Um so

2:43:37we're basically appropriating that

2:43:39funding that will likely come in and

2:43:41that will pay out.

2:43:42Um

2:43:44we're also appropriating 5,000 dollars

2:43:46of grant funding from the North Carolina

2:43:48North Carolina League of Municipalities

2:43:51for its risk management services

2:43:52insurance pool safety grant which

2:43:55provides 50% of the total cost for the

2:43:57purchase of 22 water-filled barricades

2:44:00for construction, pedestrian, and

2:44:02traffic safety. Um the barricades will

2:44:04be purchased and used by the fire,

2:44:06police, and public works departments.

2:44:08Um 4,900 is transferred from general

2:44:11fund contingency to cover the cost of a

2:44:13gift card incentive as part of the

2:44:15city's climate workplace survey

2:44:17agreement with the UNC School of

2:44:18Government. The general fund contingency

2:44:20balance is now 495,100

2:44:24dollars. Um in addition, a 10,000 dollar

2:44:27contribution from the High Point JCs is

2:44:29appropriated in the recreation

2:44:31department to support beautification

2:44:33efforts at Finch Field, home of the

2:44:34HiToms. Uh the funds will likely be used

2:44:37for the purchase of a scoreboard that

2:44:39could be used for any beautification

2:44:40efforts at the facility. Um the request

2:44:43was made by Cameron Masten at tourism.

2:44:46Um we've received the check and and

2:44:49deposited the check. Um

2:44:52Parks and Rec Director Corey Tipton will

2:44:53oversee this project and make sure all

2:44:55the funds are used responsibly and

2:44:57according to the stated purpose. So, I

2:44:59did want to say special thanks to the

2:45:01High Point JCs for the contribution.

2:45:04To Cameron for working with them to

2:45:06secure the funding and for Corey for

2:45:09administering the project.

2:45:12And I'm also there's also $2,150

2:45:16in donations

2:45:18in the beautification fund for the Light

2:45:20Up the Holidays event that we're also

2:45:21appropriating.

2:45:22>> Good deal.

2:45:23>> This this amendment will also need to

2:45:25need to be approved at briefing on

2:45:26regular agenda since it includes funding

2:45:29going into that grant project ordinance.

2:45:31>> Perfect. I will defer to committee.

2:45:33>> Make a motion to move to briefing with

2:45:34action at briefing.

2:45:35>> I'll second that.

2:45:37>> Thank you.

2:45:37>> Thank you. Appreciate it.

2:45:40>> All right.

2:45:42Item number 13, discussion of the Kern

2:45:44Street property redevelopment. I'll

2:45:46recognize our city manager.

2:45:57Will this be

2:45:59a fairly quick

2:46:01>> Uh,

2:46:02no.

2:46:03>> Okay. I was asking during the break I

2:46:05saw that Greg was here. I didn't know if

2:46:07we wanted to

2:46:09Greg the hot tubs. I didn't know

2:46:10>> It's very difficult for us to with the

2:46:13video recording now to break from one

2:46:16>> That's fine. We'll keep going.

2:46:22>> I'm sorry. Let me first try to get to my

2:46:23paperwork.

2:46:24>> That's okay.

2:46:33>> Did

2:46:33Wendy I'm assuming that he went and got

2:46:35the pizza?

2:46:41All right.

2:46:44All right. Um

2:46:49Eddie is really kind of the lead on

2:46:50this, but I'm going to do my best to

2:46:52pinch-hit for him. Uh

2:46:54so we are we're working through the

2:46:57process to redevelop the current street

2:47:00property uh for affordable housing. And

2:47:04we have been meeting with uh Home

2:47:06Solutions uh of Davidson County for

2:47:10their contractor knowledge of building

2:47:12homes, and we've been meeting with

2:47:14school government uh representatives to

2:47:17help us through the process of how does

2:47:20a city

2:47:22to go get into the affordable housing

2:47:25market or not the market, but into the

2:47:27into the area arena. Um and really comes

2:47:32down to two basic rules of thumb.

2:47:36One is under our general police powers

2:47:40uh as a city

2:47:42and because of various lawsuits that

2:47:45have occurred throughout the years, uh

2:47:47the Supreme Court has determined and the

2:47:49state constitution allows for

2:47:52the as an as a requirement or not as a

2:47:56as a duty of a government to serve

2:48:01indigent individuals, I think is the way

2:48:03the constitution calls it.

2:48:05Um but basically people of moderate and

2:48:07low income.

2:48:09The moderate and low income uh is is

2:48:12based on the average median income in an

2:48:15area. Um and so

2:48:18uh it's different in every jurisdiction.

2:48:20And uh so and typically it uses either

2:48:23the city's data or the um the county's

2:48:27data, depending on the size of the

2:48:29municipality. You may not be able to get

2:48:30the data for your specific town. We're

2:48:33still trying to figure out which one we

2:48:34would use in our case, whether we

2:48:36whether there's a city

2:48:38one that we can use or whether we'd use

2:48:39the county.

2:48:40Um and basically says that we can only

2:48:43develop uh um,

2:48:46uh, at we can only help those

2:48:48individuals up to 80% of that AMI.

2:48:52Anything above that,

2:48:54state law gets pretty difficult to to

2:48:56fit into that concept. Uh, so the

2:49:01uh, under under general powers of the

2:49:03city, we could uh, take these properties

2:49:07and work with Home Solutions and work

2:49:10out a method to transfer the property.

2:49:12But we would be limited in what we could

2:49:15do in the full support of that.

2:49:18There is also a provision in state law

2:49:21uh, that that allows a city to take on

2:49:26the the the responsibilities and the

2:49:29obligations and the authorities of a

2:49:33housing

2:49:35uh, authority.

2:49:36So basically, even though where there's

2:49:38already a Thomasville Housing Authority

2:49:41within the city of Thomasville,

2:49:43you can take you can pass a resolution

2:49:46that grants you those powers to do the

2:49:50things necessary to provide affordable

2:49:52housing as a city. No, you're you're not

2:49:56doing away with the current housing

2:49:58authority. You're not doing anything to

2:50:00their authorities. You're just basically

2:50:03taking on those duties and allowances

2:50:06under state law.

2:50:08By doing that, that gives you more power

2:50:11and more uh, ability to do things to

2:50:14improve land to get it ready for

2:50:17affordable housing because you take on

2:50:20all the responsibilities that a housing

2:50:22authority has to do those things.

2:50:25Does that make sense?

2:50:27And so you would be adopting a

2:50:28resolution to go forward.

2:50:31What what has been presented today is

2:50:34basically um, three different routes to

2:50:38take. And, uh, it is complicated. And I

2:50:42and I don't necessarily want to go over

2:50:44all the details unless you need me to go

2:50:46over all the details, but it's all in

2:50:47the package um, of how you want to get

2:50:50through this.

2:50:52But the questions that we have for you,

2:50:54um,

2:50:56so the, uh,

2:50:58uh, is

2:51:00one, are you willing to take on those

2:51:03roles as the housing authority to give

2:51:05you the broadest powers necessary to put

2:51:08into effect the current street

2:51:10redevelopment? Um, and then also, what

2:51:13is your expectations

2:51:16as to what we are building out there?

2:51:20Uh, we have a design plan that initially

2:51:24showed about 17 single-family homes.

2:51:28Um, from a density point of view, we

2:51:31could have over 30 units of

2:51:34single-family out there, but they would

2:51:36probably be more of a townhome style

2:51:40development versus single-family, uh,

2:51:43separate homes.

2:51:45So,

2:51:47one of our questions for you is

2:51:50how dense do you want this neighborhood

2:51:52to be?

2:51:53You know, do you do you

2:51:55you know, do you want to max out

2:51:57capacity or do you want it to fit more

2:51:59into the keeping of the current

2:52:01neighborhood?

2:52:02>> it split it like one side of the

2:52:04development there be townhouses and the

2:52:05other side be single-family?

2:52:07>> Yeah, you can we we have a lot of

2:52:09different Yes, the the short answer to

2:52:12that question is yes. We And And what

2:52:15One of the proposals that that we were

2:52:16looking at, uh, um, and Eddie, you're

2:52:19now that you're back, you can step in

2:52:20when when necessary, is that, uh, the

2:52:24site has the capability potentially of

2:52:26having

2:52:28the houses on the outside of the

2:52:31existing road network be single family

2:52:34small lot, you know, 6,000 square foot

2:52:37lot uh and have them on the perimeter

2:52:40and then have a a group in the middle

2:52:43that are smaller homes. We're We're

2:52:46trying to get away from the from the

2:52:47tiny home. We're talking about 800 to

2:52:501,000 square foot homes that would

2:52:54be individual homes but on a common lot.

2:52:58So, it would be it'd be a

2:53:01essentially a townhome development in

2:53:04the sense that you buy your unit but you

2:53:07there's a common area

2:53:09that is jointly owned through an HOA.

2:53:12>> So, you're saying is that creating an

2:53:12HOA for the development?

2:53:13>> an HOA but it avoids public street

2:53:17construction

2:53:18and it avoids public utility

2:53:20construction. There still needs to be

2:53:22utilities and and and all that but the

2:53:25the cost potentially drops.

2:53:27>> And all of this is under the becoming a

2:53:28housing authority ourselves?

2:53:30>> All of that would Well, the either way

2:53:32the the way we divide it is not so

2:53:34important. It's what we can do to the

2:53:37property of of whether we're under the

2:53:40housing authority statute or under the

2:53:42>> What are the negatives of the housing

2:53:43authority statute as far as we're

2:53:45concerned?

2:53:47How would it negatively affect us?

2:53:48>> Um

2:53:50any I don't know if I could I don't know

2:53:52if there is.

2:53:53>> take action

2:53:55on a variety of things relative to the

2:53:57single neighborhood.

2:53:59>> Yeah.

2:54:00Yeah, I don't

2:54:01I don't really know.

2:54:02>> So, the upside's better than than the

2:54:04downside?

2:54:05>> Yeah, I I the the by by taking on the

2:54:08powers of a housing authority, you have

2:54:10a lot more authority to do things than

2:54:14just your general police powers allow

2:54:16under the 160D.

2:54:19>> Would that be just for this project?

2:54:22>> Um

2:54:23the housing authority

2:54:25I think once you've established it

2:54:28through resolution that you are taking

2:54:29on those duties,

2:54:31you could use it again

2:54:34um you know, in a different property,

2:54:37but I but you're not required to. Does

2:54:39this create any cost to us as a city?

2:54:43Any extra cost above and beyond what

2:54:45we're looking at now?

2:54:48I don't believe so cuz you're just as

2:54:51you

2:54:51Yeah.

2:54:52>> Whatever your involvement is with the

2:54:53infrastructure for this particular

2:54:55neighborhood

2:54:56is the big question.

2:54:58You know, and so in day one we discussed

2:55:01how we work directly with Home

2:55:02Solutions.

2:55:03>> Right.

2:55:04>> Because they're our CDC for the county

2:55:06and for the city.

2:55:08And so what the question that Michael

2:55:10and I had to continually entertain with

2:55:12the School of Government was how do we

2:55:14do that?

2:55:15How do we legally do that? And so that's

2:55:18how we had to come up with a few options

2:55:19for you to contend with, okay?

2:55:21And so to Michael's point, like option

2:55:23one means Home Solutions is the

2:55:26developer and they take care of all the

2:55:28infrastructure, all water costs, sewer

2:55:30costs, much like any other developer

2:55:32would be um on the hook for if they

2:55:35wanted to put in water, sewer, streets,

2:55:37sidewalks, that sort of thing.

2:55:39And so that's the the real question

2:55:41where the cost comes in is where do you

2:55:43want to put your money?

2:55:45Do you want to put your money into the

2:55:46infrastructure? Would you rather Home

2:55:49Solutions be the developer and then do

2:55:50it? Or would you rather open it up on

2:55:52the public market by us being

2:55:56>> Hm.

2:55:57>> Also, what what

2:56:00if we

2:56:01become a housing authority, how

2:56:05the surrounding folks to that property,

2:56:08does that have a negative impact on

2:56:10their their property?

2:56:11>> don't call it a housing authority

2:56:13project. It's It's just that you're

2:56:15adopt- You're You're You're You're

2:56:17adopting the powers of the housing

2:56:19authority by creating the resolution

2:56:23that tells the public

2:56:26we're acting as a housing authority and

2:56:28that gives us certain powers under state

2:56:31law.

2:56:32It doesn't mean that the name has, you

2:56:34know, there's not nothing that carries

2:56:36any

2:56:37>> Okay.

2:56:37>> any name.

2:56:39>> Will we be able to get grants

2:56:42through housing authority?

2:56:44>> Unfortunately, no. All the research that

2:56:47has indicated because we want to see

2:56:49single-family homes

2:56:52there are no

2:56:53funding available. Like we were as a

2:56:54city going to buy the property, build

2:56:56the property, and rent then yeah,

2:56:58there's subsidies out there that help

2:57:00that project. Um but no, unfortunately

2:57:03for home ownership there are programs

2:57:05out there in the current administration

2:57:08that would support that.

2:57:09We've looked at a variety of state

2:57:11development finance commission, housing

2:57:14finance agency, commerce. We've had a

2:57:17number of conversations about this.

2:57:19>> I want to make sure I'm I'm getting this

2:57:21here. So, if we become the housing

2:57:25authority for that property

2:57:28it gives us more authority versus if we

2:57:30went with Home Solutions.

2:57:32>> Well, we still would work with Home

2:57:34Solutions. What What the And I may not

2:57:37be explaining this well.

2:57:38>> the developer.

2:57:39>> We

2:57:40you either decide that you're going to

2:57:42develop this under 160D

2:57:45rules for a city, which is more

2:57:49constrained

2:57:52on how you sell property, how you put in

2:57:54I mean, we have general authorities to

2:57:56put in a street, we have general

2:57:57authorities to put in a sewer line, a

2:57:59water line, etc. Um but we don't have

2:58:04when when it's time to sell those

2:58:06properties, we we may be more

2:58:08constrained in the ability to sell that

2:58:10property to to Home Solutions at a

2:58:13discounted rate.

2:58:15Um that's really where a lot of this has

2:58:17to do with how do you sell the property

2:58:19when it's ready for development?

2:58:22Under the Housing Authority,

2:58:25we can sell it at a discounted rate to

2:58:28Home Solutions or any other party, you

2:58:32know, it's not just Home Solutions, but

2:58:34um, at a discounted rate that then that

2:58:38discounted rate makes it affordable

2:58:42because that has to get passed on to the

2:58:45homeowner when they purchase the home.

2:58:47So, if the if a lot is worth $20,000,

2:58:52we sell it to Home Solutions for $5,000.

2:58:55That $15,000

2:58:57has to

2:58:58flow through to the final owner.

2:59:01Um, and we can do that under that

2:59:04authority without any worry of of of

2:59:08concerns about the the public sale of

2:59:11land that we normally would be under.

2:59:13>> So, it would that be the staff's

2:59:15recommendation to go that route? Or or

2:59:17do you feel comfortable enough to say

2:59:19that would be your recommendation?

2:59:20Curious to know what y'all think.

2:59:23>> I think so. I mean, I think I think it's

2:59:26it

2:59:27will require us to, you know, we're

2:59:29learning. Um, and so,

2:59:32um,

2:59:33but I believe that that's going to give

2:59:35us the largest

2:59:37open field to do what we're trying to

2:59:41accomplish.

2:59:42>> I think it's some innovative thinking.

2:59:43>> Yeah.

2:59:43>> So, here's the here's the Let me kind of

2:59:45break it down into three options and we

2:59:47can kind of discuss

2:59:48>> Okay.

2:59:48>> the merits

2:59:49>> Yep.

2:59:51>> Option one is Home Solutions going to

2:59:54develop the homes.

2:59:55That's the same whether it's option one

2:59:57or option two.

2:59:59Option three means

3:00:00they can build them, but we have to bid

3:00:02out construction and then federal money

3:00:04and then potentially get the property.

3:00:05So, if you're telling me you exclusively

3:00:08want to work with Home Solutions, option

3:00:10three is out.

3:00:11>> Okay.

3:00:12>> I would like to work with Home

3:00:13Solutions.

3:00:14>> I

3:00:14>> think that they've been with us far as

3:00:16every step of the way. It would be a

3:00:18disservice for them to not be a part of

3:00:20the process.

3:00:21>> So, let's take three off.

3:00:22>> for them. I'll say that.

3:00:25Um option one and option two are very

3:00:26similar. Option one is restricted fair

3:00:29market value.

3:00:31Option two is subsidized. And so, I

3:00:32think under option one and two,

3:00:36um

3:00:36both the city can fund public water and

3:00:39sewer, and we can fund the roads,

3:00:42and we can construct sidewalks.

3:00:44Option one is optional for us. We don't

3:00:46have to do this. We can say, "You know

3:00:47what, Home Solutions, you're going to

3:00:48build this neighborhood. You're going to

3:00:50sell the homes. You're going to retain

3:00:51the profit from it, and you just pay for

3:00:53those things."

3:00:54Um option two, we help them by doing

3:00:58those things. And so, there's a variety

3:01:00of ways we can do it. We can do it up

3:01:02front cuz the city has a

3:01:04Not under 160B can we install the roads,

3:01:06but just under the general statutory

3:01:08obligations, we're allowed to build

3:01:10water, sewer, roads, and sidewalks, too.

3:01:12And so, we could have that process um

3:01:16completely installed at no cost to Home

3:01:19Solutions.

3:01:19>> Okay.

3:01:20>> I'd like us to be involved so that we

3:01:22can use this as a a shining You know, we

3:01:24say, "This is what we can do. This This

3:01:26is how people come together and do

3:01:27things."

3:01:27>> Yeah.

3:01:28>> I think I think it would be a good point

3:01:30now to inform council.

3:01:34We probably have two council people that

3:01:35have no idea

3:01:37that we have money assigned to this

3:01:39project already.

3:01:41>> Yeah, so

3:01:42>> through the million dollars that council

3:01:44a year few years back

3:01:46>> Yes, that's a great point. Going back to

3:01:48what the mayor said is at one point in

3:01:49the history of ARPA funds, the city was

3:01:53able to utilize those funds to do some

3:01:55capital-related projects that we needed

3:01:57to do, which allowed us to have general

3:02:00obligation funds in our budget set aside

3:02:03to the tune of about $950,000. So, not

3:02:05only could the schools or down but go

3:02:07through the foreclosure process, the

3:02:09environmental remediation, the green

3:02:10building, that sort of thing. And so,

3:02:13we've done that. And we have roughly

3:02:15$235,000

3:02:17tied up in the property currently from

3:02:19that original amount that the city has

3:02:21expended to get the property to the

3:02:23point that it is in that

3:02:24So, there is a cash flow that's

3:02:26established through the grant project

3:02:28that is available for the water, the

3:02:30sewer, the roads, and sidewalks that we

3:02:33can do now. Because this is general

3:02:36operating funds, we have to work with

3:02:38the utility division about how they can

3:02:40fund the portion of the water sewer

3:02:42infrastructure

3:02:43as needed.

3:02:45But, there are funds in the general

3:02:46obligation

3:02:47side

3:02:49to help support the development of the

3:02:51road

3:02:51and sidewalks. And also, the park space

3:02:54because we had set this up to have it as

3:02:57a neighborhood park, not a destination

3:02:59park, but something to support the

3:03:01neighborhood. We've kept some of the

3:03:03brick from the previous building, so we

3:03:05kind of had an homage to the current

3:03:06street school being there, that sort of

3:03:08thing. So, there are funds to do those

3:03:10sorts of things currently available.

3:03:13The question we have to determine is, do

3:03:16we as a city want to do that type of

3:03:18work

3:03:19and manage those things?

3:03:22I'm hearing

3:03:23yes.

3:03:24>> Yeah, I think that I think we landed on

3:03:26an option by deciding that.

3:03:28>> Got you. So, it sounds to me we're sort

3:03:30of leaning towards option two.

3:03:32>> Two.

3:03:33>> Um

3:03:35And so, what we can do from that

3:03:36perspective, I'll walk through what

3:03:38option two actually means.

3:03:41>> I've got it on the board.

3:03:43>> On the chart, option two, Home Solutions

3:03:46can still develop homes, we can work

3:03:47directly with them. We can fund the

3:03:49water, the sewer, the public roads, and

3:03:50the sidewalks. Um there is a city

3:03:54investment, obviously. Um

3:03:57There's a land subsidy.

3:03:59Um but, it has to be conveyed to the

3:04:01homeowner like Marcus said, it's not

3:04:02something that if we discount the land

3:04:04down, then home solutions gets a bigger

3:04:07profit. It's not like that.

3:04:09Um the point behind working with home

3:04:12solutions is they target target

3:04:15low-to-moderate income. And 80% area

3:04:18median income is what the target is. And

3:04:20if you go above that to sell some

3:04:22houses, then a certain percentage of the

3:04:24homes have to be at like 50% LMI. So,

3:04:27they have to juggle those things.

3:04:29Um

3:04:30we have high development control on it.

3:04:35Home Solutions of Davis County has the

3:04:36highest development responsibility

3:04:38because they're on the hook to us.

3:04:40Um and it has a very high affordability

3:04:42potential. And basically what that means

3:04:44is because we're working with Home

3:04:46Solutions and we're reducing the rate

3:04:49for the properties individually down.

3:04:52And and couple ways we looked at how

3:04:54could we get the lot prices down to an

3:04:56affordable amount because on a 3-acre

3:04:58tract, you have 235,000 in lots and the

3:05:01entire lot. That's a lot of money

3:05:05for each individual lot.

3:05:07And so, again, you can subsidize those

3:05:09things. But, another way to get them

3:05:11down is break it up per lot.

3:05:13Um again, that goes along with the

3:05:17um the house itself. But, then

3:05:18secondarily, participants in Home

3:05:21Solutions of Davis County's program have

3:05:24the ability to apply for up to a $50,000

3:05:26silent second on the home. And so,

3:05:28basically what that means is

3:05:30when they get in the home, $50,000 of

3:05:32purchase price is paid for

3:05:35via 5. And that money sits there and

3:05:37it's a silent second, so they're not

3:05:39paying money or not paying interest

3:05:41until they sell the home, okay? So, they

3:05:43would um

3:05:44have the benefit of not only getting the

3:05:46reduced price on the land,

3:05:48so and then $50,000 silent second, so

3:05:51and and what we're talking about, well,

3:05:52we're going to that next, but so it

3:05:54makes it very affordable for folks to

3:05:56live in.

3:05:57Um it's somewhat complex

3:05:59administratively.

3:06:01Um

3:06:02and so city ownership during

3:06:04construction knows that that would be

3:06:06conveyed to Home Solutions. Whether we

3:06:07do it entirely all at one time or we do

3:06:09it lot by lot by lot, that is the

3:06:11question we have to determine later on.

3:06:13So, it sounds as though we've landed on

3:06:14option two.

3:06:16>> Is that the general consensus of of

3:06:17council, option two?

3:06:20>> So, we can do that back to you in the

3:06:21form of policy.

3:06:22>> Please do.

3:06:23>> And then we'll allow

3:06:24MI community use with Home Solutions

3:06:27>> Yeah.

3:06:27>> to start moving toward that progress.

3:06:29The one thing that we don't have an

3:06:30answer to is important to the

3:06:32conversation, how many homes in general

3:06:35do we want to put in the neighborhood?

3:06:37Um we were originally we divided it up

3:06:39in the lots, we thought we were equal.

3:06:41Um we can get 17 particular potential

3:06:44lots, three of which are in the

3:06:46stormwater area, and we talked about

3:06:48developing it into a

3:06:49a pocket park, which left 14 homes.

3:06:52After working with Chuck, also working

3:06:54with the development organization, we

3:06:56could put up to 20 and still be um

3:07:00closer to what the neighborhood looks

3:07:02like currently, and still be okay.

3:07:05I think Chuck came up with a number like

3:07:0640 or 45, just to waste some some raw

3:07:09numbers. Obviously, nobody's proposing

3:07:11that, but we do want to increase the

3:07:13density, but if I increase the density,

3:07:15what it does it reduces the amount per

3:07:18lot down

3:07:19>> Yeah.

3:07:20>> cost-wise. Secondarily, you can go on

3:07:23any corner of Thomasville right now and

3:07:25find a home for $350,000.

3:07:28>> Mhm.

3:07:28>> And that's why you're seeing

3:07:29homeownership go from an age of 25 or 30

3:07:32to an average age of 45 to 50-year-old

3:07:34people before they own their first home

3:07:37cuz the prices of property are so high.

3:07:39We saw that in the tax revaluation.

3:07:41>> Yeah.

3:07:41>> So, what we're proposing is to do

3:07:42smaller cottage-style homes. Um one of

3:07:46the designs Michael came up with, credit

3:07:47to him, was that when we do the

3:07:49foundations, there's a concrete

3:07:51foundation for the front porch, a

3:07:53concrete foundation for the back porch.

3:07:55In the event the neighborhood they want

3:07:57to add on to the property, the

3:07:58foundation is already there.

3:08:00>> It's a good idea.

3:08:01>> And then extend another bedroom of the

3:08:02home. And so those if you started with

3:08:04an 800 square foot home on the base, it

3:08:07gives you room to put more houses on the

3:08:09property. An 800 square foot house is

3:08:12going to be a lot more affordable than

3:08:14the 350,000, 400,000 home here in the

3:08:17area. We call this workforce housing

3:08:19because it's supposed to target nurses,

3:08:21police officers, firefighters to be able

3:08:23to live there.

3:08:25Um

3:08:27So that's the number we're we're trying

3:08:28to determine because that affects our

3:08:31relationship with the deal who's doing

3:08:33the the neighborhood design and

3:08:34engineering for the project to tell us

3:08:36how many homes and do the design based

3:08:38on that.

3:08:39>> Yeah.

3:08:39>> And once they finish that, then we're

3:08:41able to start moving forward with water,

3:08:43sewer, streets,

3:08:45sidewalks, those sort of things.

3:08:47>> Well, I and I'd be the the 20 sounds

3:08:49nice and still looks it will look the

3:08:51same as the other neighborhood.

3:08:53Lots. That's I mean that's what I'd be

3:08:55comfortable with.

3:08:56>> Um and agreed and I I really appreciate

3:08:59I'm trying not to jump out of my seat.

3:09:00I'm so excited about um you really

3:09:01talking about this cuz um one of the

3:09:03really things that I'm I'm hopeful that

3:09:05we keep in front of my you really hit on

3:09:07it is that bigger and broader picture

3:09:08what this project was going to help us

3:09:10start with but it hopefully not end us

3:09:12with with increasing the broader

3:09:15availability of of our home market to

3:09:17really allow for us to bring down that

3:09:18property value overall in the city cuz

3:09:20like you said it is extremely too high

3:09:22right now in the city of Thomasville and

3:09:23this is a really immediate way as a city

3:09:25council that we can directly have an

3:09:27impact on that. So I would be okay with

3:09:29increasing the density a little bit more

3:09:30cuz that density would allow for this

3:09:32particular neighborhood's home values to

3:09:33go down a little bit more. I know a lot

3:09:34of the folks there are going to be

3:09:35excited to hear that um when it comes to

3:09:37property taxes anyways it um maybe not

3:09:39so much for selling. Um but yeah so I I

3:09:42that's my opinion on it.

3:09:46>> Go with

3:09:46>> what you need.

3:09:47>> Anything else on this Michael?

3:09:49>> Um it

3:09:50if we're going to go that route, it will

3:09:51require us to take on the housing

3:09:53authority authority. So, that will have

3:09:56to develop a resolution. Um and are you

3:10:00okay with the design that I described

3:10:03with an HOA that with the village style

3:10:06homes um and some larger homes on the

3:10:10perimeter uh whether they're all in the

3:10:12HOA or not. Uh but so there's common

3:10:15area. Is that a design method that you

3:10:18want to go or are you just looking for

3:10:20flat out individual lot?

3:10:23>> I like the single family. I I don't

3:10:24>> they're they're all they're all single

3:10:26family. It's just whether or not the

3:10:28>> family home.

3:10:28>> Yeah.

3:10:28>> Yeah.

3:10:30>> All Yeah, all of them will be It'll just

3:10:32be the different rates. It'll give

3:10:33people um the option for people like how

3:10:35you said workforce folks that's just

3:10:36coming out into college just graduating

3:10:39um getting maybe not the

3:10:41the big, you know, already got three

3:10:43kids kind of home.

3:10:44>> Okay.

3:10:45>> Like a two-bedroom unit.

3:10:47>> Yeah.

3:10:47>> Yeah, that can be expanded and then some

3:10:50three-bedroom or four-bedroom um you

3:10:52know, on the perimeter.

3:10:53>> Yeah, I think that's fine.

3:10:54Good with that? Okay.

3:10:57Excellent. We don't need to take any

3:10:58action on that today though, right?

3:11:00>> all of this back in the form of policy

3:11:02so that you can officially approve it.

3:11:04This gives us the direction we need so

3:11:05the developer can go ahead with the

3:11:07neighborhood design and get that

3:11:08finalized

3:11:09which we'll also be able to bring back

3:11:11the final approval.

3:11:13Um and then because option two gives the

3:11:15ability to show money going to the

3:11:17homeowner in the form of offsetting

3:11:19grants, we can look at what that looks

3:11:22like and how the money plays out and

3:11:25bring back recommendations for that.

3:11:26>> Perfect. Sounds good.

3:11:29>> Thank you.

3:11:30>> All right. Are there any additions or up

3:11:32Did I miss anything? I I covered all the

3:11:34items, right Wendy?

3:11:35All right.

3:11:35>> You got them all. All right, good. Any

3:11:37additions or updates?

3:11:38>> Let me just real quick. Sure, because it

3:11:40was so much. The revised cash handling

3:11:43policy number four was moved to

3:11:46briefing.

3:11:46>> Correct.

3:11:48>> Item six, seven, and eight were moved to

3:11:52briefing with action.

3:11:53>> Action, yep.

3:11:55>> Item nine was moved to briefing.

3:11:57>> Mhm.

3:11:58>> Item 10 was was moved to briefing.

3:12:02>> Correct.

3:12:02>> On the approval of the application.

3:12:04>> Mhm.

3:12:05>> Number 11 was moved to briefing with

3:12:08action.

3:12:09>> Correct.

3:12:10>> Number 12 was moved to briefing

3:12:12and number 15 was moved to briefing.

3:12:15>> Yep, you got it.

3:12:19Then I will no updates, correct?

3:12:22>> I've already given my update.

3:12:23>> Okay.

3:12:24Then I will ask for a motion to adjourn.

3:12:26>> Motion to adjourn, please.

3:12:28>> And I will

3:12:29second.

3:12:30>> So we're

3:12:36>> Yeah.

3:12:37>> Good.

3:12:38I would

3:12:40suggest if we could go ahead and handle

3:12:42I was going to say handle Greg, but he's

3:12:44been he's here.

3:12:46Yeah. Yeah, while we're waiting on the

3:12:48food. Yeah.

3:12:50>> So that's that would be the real estate.

3:12:52Dana, if you're good to

3:12:53>> Hold hold one minute.

3:12:54>> All right.

3:13:02Real estate, go ahead and handle Greg.

3:13:06He's been here since our break.

3:13:20Oh, good.

3:13:24Oh, good.