2026-10-06 - City Council

0:00:00basically in a revaluation year this

0:00:02year for us last year but also this year

0:00:04as it was delayed. Um this bill would

0:00:07require a local governing body to

0:00:08publish notice of it its intent to

0:00:11exceed the revenue neutral tax rate.

0:00:13Basically a public notice in a newspaper

0:00:16at least one week before a newly

0:00:17required public hearing specifically

0:00:20dedicated to the tax rate. We already

0:00:21have a budget hearing every year. This

0:00:23would be a separate public hearing in

0:00:25addition to that hearing where we would

0:00:27have to essentially vote on a

0:00:29recommended tax rate through a

0:00:31resolution or adopt a resolution or

0:00:33ordinance. Um there are a lot of other

0:00:36requirements in addition including

0:00:39notices that have to be sent to

0:00:40taxpayers in the spring before uh this

0:00:44public hearing occurs. Um, we will

0:00:47likely have to um have an ANA or an

0:00:51amended Davidson County um property tax

0:00:56billing agreement done after this bill

0:00:59passes. Um, and it's going to cost us

0:01:02money. I don't know what that's going to

0:01:03be, but I would assume maybe $50 to

0:01:05$100,000 or so. Um, we budget around

0:01:08$210,000

0:01:10for our normal Davidson County tax

0:01:12billing that goes out in July every

0:01:15year. So, that would be the notices that

0:01:17the bills that they send out to

0:01:19taxpayers essentially. Um, this is going

0:01:22to be in this current fiscal year before

0:01:25the newly required public hearing around

0:01:28May 31st. So, we're going to need to

0:01:30send those out. We don't have the

0:01:32capacity to do this in house, so we're

0:01:34gonna have to contract out with Davidson

0:01:36County to do it. Um, and I've already

0:01:38spoken with David Rickard, the interim

0:01:40county manager and tax administrator,

0:01:42uh, at Davidson County, and he said we

0:01:44could either use their billing provider,

0:01:48um, or work through Davidson County to

0:01:50get this taken care of, but just know

0:01:51that this will be an additional cost in

0:01:53our current budget of I would assume

0:01:55somewhere between $50 and $100,000 that

0:01:58we would need to use contingency for

0:02:00later in the year.

0:02:01>> So, this is one of those unfunded

0:02:02mandates by the state, correct? Okay.

0:02:05>> Yeah. Um, and so there's a lot of stuff

0:02:07that has to be included on the public

0:02:10notices. Some of which needs to be

0:02:12calculated in house by by myself. Um, or

0:02:16finance stuff. Uh, such as, let me give

0:02:19you all the items that have to be

0:02:21included on those taxpayer notices that

0:02:23go out. Um,

0:02:26the amount of property tax revenue

0:02:28needed to balance the budget, the

0:02:29revenue neutral tax rate, the proposed

0:02:32or recommended tax rate, the current

0:02:34year tax due on a homeowner's property,

0:02:37the estimated upcoming year tax due if

0:02:39the revenue neutral rate were adopted,

0:02:41the estimated upcoming year tax due if

0:02:43the proposed rate is adopted, and the

0:02:46date, time, and location of the newly

0:02:48required public hearing. So, all that

0:02:50has to be included on these notices that

0:02:52go out. um in the spring before the

0:02:55newly required public hearing. At the

0:02:57newly required public hearing, the board

0:02:59must vote on the tax rate by majority

0:03:02vote.

0:03:04This has to occur before voting on the

0:03:06full budget ordinance at the June

0:03:07council meeting. Any governing body that

0:03:10fails to comply with the new

0:03:11requirements would be required to refund

0:03:13any property taxes collected above the

0:03:15amount that would have been collected

0:03:17under the revenue neutral rate. Um so

0:03:20essentially a new public hearing, an

0:03:22additional public hearing and an

0:03:24additional cost for a lot of notices

0:03:25that have to go out. Uh my only um note

0:03:29here in addition to um what the

0:03:32legislation requires is we're going to

0:03:34need to know at a fairly early point

0:03:36somewhere around February, March, what

0:03:39you all feel is a is a is a a good

0:03:42recommended tax rate so that we can do

0:03:44all the calculations, get everything in

0:03:46place to get this to Davidson County so

0:03:48that we can so that the notices can go

0:03:50out and we meet all the requirements. I

0:03:52totally understand if y'all don't have

0:03:54answers to these because I know nobody

0:03:55really knows what's going on. They

0:03:58haven't set the rules yet for what the

0:04:01tax limits will be for us. Do we

0:04:04anticipate that they're going to do so?

0:04:06I'm imagining that this constitutional

0:04:07amendment is going to pass.

0:04:09>> Uh

0:04:09>> it's all about votes. That's all it's

0:04:11all about.

0:04:12>> I understand that. So, but they're going

0:04:14to make some rule for our taxation that

0:04:16we're not going to know.

0:04:18>> Are we going to know it by February,

0:04:21March? Are we going to be able to say

0:04:22confidently?

0:04:23>> It depends if they if they move quickly.

0:04:25>> They they this is this is a case of

0:04:29left-hand right hand. They tell us that

0:04:31we have to meet these new standards

0:04:34that they threw in there and then

0:04:37they're not going to tell us what the

0:04:39what their actual

0:04:41what we have to do to do what the rule

0:04:45is. So

0:04:46>> what's a timeline if if this passes in a

0:04:49referendum in November? What's the

0:04:51timeline for them coming back to do

0:04:52this?

0:04:53>> It's the legislature.

0:04:55>> So I mean that could be it could be

0:04:57January.

0:04:58>> Next year's a long session. So are they

0:05:00going to come back in the middle of all

0:05:01of this to get this done?

0:05:02>> They they're going to have to uh if they

0:05:04want to have to have anything that we're

0:05:07going to be able to react to. So this is

0:05:10this is where the lobbying of your

0:05:13legislature um however it gets done

0:05:16through the league through individual

0:05:19needs to be decided

0:05:22January. You know they need to they need

0:05:24to get that part done but they haven't

0:05:28proven capable of doing anything that

0:05:30that gives us a good timeline to

0:05:34accomplish what we have to accomplish. I

0:05:36mean, they just obviously

0:05:40uh don't care other than

0:05:42>> I mean, this is this is going to be a

0:05:44cluster because this amendment is going

0:05:46to pass and it will say the state is

0:05:49going to make some rules about taxation.

0:05:52We won't know what they are by the time

0:05:54of our budget retreat advance for Neil.

0:05:57We won't know what they are. And so,

0:05:59we'll make a plan. we'll all get on

0:06:01board and then they'll come out with a

0:06:03rule that is not consistent with our

0:06:06plan and then we'll be up against this

0:06:08time crunch that we now have to fit a

0:06:09new public hearing into. So then if we

0:06:12vote on a budget, if we vote on a tax

0:06:15rate at this first public hearing, it

0:06:16will have to be early June and then

0:06:19we're held to it for the actual budget

0:06:21ordinance or can we change it? That's

0:06:23where that's where I'm not

0:06:25[clears throat] it's not clear to me

0:06:26because we have to send out this

0:06:29information

0:06:31>> um that has very detailed information

0:06:34about an individual's property and what

0:06:37what their current rate is what their I

0:06:38mean their current pax is what the new

0:06:41tax would be what the revenue neutral is

0:06:44if it's a revenue year you know but you

0:06:48have till June 30th to set your property

0:06:50tax so if you choose. You know, you may

0:06:54have a plan that says you're going to

0:06:57charge 63 cents. Um, and then at the end

0:07:01of that, you decide, h, we're going to

0:07:04change it to 62 or go back, you know,

0:07:08leave it at 62 or go to 70 or drop it to

0:07:1155 because it's a reval year. I don't

0:07:14know legally what they're going to do to

0:07:16us because they're making us make a a

0:07:21decision

0:07:22that can't be made and they tell us we

0:07:26have the right to make it until June

0:07:2830th. I mean, if this law was in place

0:07:31last year, I don't know what what would

0:07:34have been the consequence of violating

0:07:38what you sent out. you would have sent

0:07:40out a notice that said your new tax rate

0:07:43is 55 cents via letter to 11,000

0:07:47properties.

0:07:49Then the legislature does its thing or

0:07:52you just do your thing as part of a

0:07:55budget approval and you decide 55 cents

0:07:58isn't the right amount.

0:08:01>> I I don't know. I mean, do they take us

0:08:04to to jail? you know, do they take us to

0:08:07to city jail? You know, I mean,

0:08:09[laughter] what do they what do they do

0:08:11with you? I mean,

0:08:12>> you know,

0:08:13>> what do they do with us? They've been

0:08:14trying to figure that out.

0:08:15>> You know, we we publish the budget

0:08:18message. We, you know, that says what

0:08:20the tax rate is. At the very end of that

0:08:22document, my last sentence is or in the

0:08:25last paragraph is this is no longer the

0:08:28the manager's budget. It's the council's

0:08:30budget. You decide. and and that's it's

0:08:35unclear where the actual decision has to

0:08:38be made and what actually has to stay

0:08:43>> stuck you know or can be changed but for

0:08:46planning purposes we need to know as

0:08:48much information as possible which we'll

0:08:50get into when we talk about budget

0:08:51workshop

0:08:52>> I will try to stop derailing us because

0:08:54everybody can clearly see that this is

0:08:55lunacy but I also want to point out this

0:08:57unfunded mandate of [snorts] all this

0:08:59extra notice is all information that is

0:09:01very public and very readily available

0:09:03to the taxpayer. So this whole we're

0:09:06trying to be transparent, we're trying

0:09:07to make sure everybody knows, everybody

0:09:08already knows. It's silliness and so now

0:09:12it's going to cost you people of

0:09:13Thomasville an extra $100,000

0:09:18for why.

0:09:20>> Definitely agree on that one. I I think

0:09:21the frustration is uh felt all on this

0:09:24board and I think as current elected

0:09:26officials in this city it's even more

0:09:27important even though this budget

0:09:28amendment has not passed um that we are

0:09:31advocating on behalf and educating our

0:09:33community about the importance of these

0:09:34amendments and a democratic republican

0:09:37thing um but it's really a big

0:09:39government trying to uh overreach into

0:09:41local government's ability to be able to

0:09:43do that and so I know we're thinking

0:09:45that it might pass but I think it's

0:09:46really important here on up until

0:09:48November as well to really make sure

0:09:50that we're doing our part to educate our

0:09:53community about the importance of local

0:09:55amendments like this and how they have

0:09:56real costly effects on us. Um so I

0:09:59definitely feel the frustration. I don't

0:10:01want us to lose that motivation.

0:10:05>> Any questions on truth and taxation? Um

0:10:09okay, the final um piece of legislation

0:10:12is House Bill 376

0:10:15uh water and wastewater affordability

0:10:17and capacity act. This is restricting

0:10:21um the rates you can charge to outside

0:10:23city customers. Um this bill was passed

0:10:27and signed into law in July. The

0:10:30legislation states that if the total of

0:10:31all rates, fees, and charges um

0:10:37for outside city customers exceed those

0:10:39rates, fees, and charges to inside city

0:10:42customers by more than 25%.

0:10:45We will be required to hold a third

0:10:47public hearing. Um, this one may take

0:10:50care of itself for us because

0:10:53we have historically and I'm not sure

0:10:55how we got there, but just for years

0:10:57have been charging significantly more um

0:11:00for outside city rates about 2.25 times

0:11:04what we're charging for inside rates. We

0:11:06are not going to be able to justify that

0:11:08from a long-term perspective. We're

0:11:10currently going through a 5-year utility

0:11:11rate study right now. The contractor has

0:11:14said we could probably justify the 1.25

0:11:1625 that this legislation is pushing us

0:11:19toward, but not the 2.25. So, what we'll

0:11:22likely do is hold our outside city rates

0:11:25uh constant. It's a very small

0:11:27percentage of our customers, about 4%,

0:11:30and we would increase our inside rates

0:11:33um to try to get us over a period of

0:11:34years to get to that 1.25. As long as

0:11:37you don't increase it, even though our

0:11:40rates are more than 1.25 two, five times

0:11:42for outside customers. If we do not

0:11:45increase those at all, the new newly

0:11:48required public hearing is not a

0:11:50mandate. So, um, that's probably going

0:11:52to be the case for us because you can't

0:11:54hold a public hearing and justify rates

0:11:55if if they're not justifiable. So,

0:11:57that's kind of where this is pushing us.

0:11:59There should not be such a disparity

0:12:01between inside and outside customer

0:12:03rates. Um, and eventually over a period

0:12:07of several years, we'll likely get down

0:12:08to that 1.25, 25, but it will not

0:12:10require a new public hearing if we keep

0:12:12them where they are. That would prevent

0:12:14us from losing um our current outside

0:12:18customer revenues and also move us

0:12:21toward u the 1.25 rate. So that's

0:12:24overall that's the the um

0:12:28the HB 376

0:12:31summarized. Are there any questions on

0:12:33that one?

0:12:36>> Thank you very much.

0:12:37>> Thank you.

0:12:51Ebikes.

0:12:52>> All right.

0:12:54[snorts]

0:12:56>> Good morning. How you doing everyone? Uh

0:12:58so there's many things going on on the

0:13:00uh zoning side but right now only

0:13:02sharing just a few because uh October

0:13:0528th school of government's going to

0:13:07give us a little bit more insight of

0:13:09changes taking place in zoning. Uh but

0:13:12the primary one see right now we'll

0:13:14start with uh local parking minimums. So

0:13:18this law was uh in effect as of January

0:13:211st of 2027.

0:13:23Uh currently uh we require certain

0:13:27number of spaces based on retail uh

0:13:30assembly and so forth. Uh restaurants

0:13:32based on the number of seats within the

0:13:34building. Uh so if it's uh four seats,

0:13:38it may require space for every four

0:13:40seats. So right now we cannot require a

0:13:42minimum on parking areas. So now if

0:13:45Walmart wants to put in a restaurant in

0:13:47the middle of their parking lot, they

0:13:48can. Southgate can. So it gives other

0:13:51opportunities but we still can regulate

0:13:53landscaping and u storm water and so

0:13:57forth with those areas. That's basically

0:13:59the gist of that. Um also in new

0:14:03residential developments uh the fire

0:14:06apparatus access roads you can't require

0:14:08more than it's required by the state

0:14:09code was in ordinance. Uh this is under

0:14:13GS 160D72C

0:14:16and so and also the parking space uh you

0:14:19can't exceed the standard of 9 ft by 20

0:14:22ft. Ours is currently 8 by8 so we don't

0:14:25exceed that as well. Um DOT our roads

0:14:29can exceed standards of DOT which is

0:14:32currently where our ordinance is right

0:14:33now. So this not going to have too much

0:14:36effect on us except which is good not

0:14:40requiring more spaces you know minimize

0:14:43that. So cuz we all time have to a ver

0:14:45request and reduce those

0:14:47um a GS 168 uh 205.8 eight uh no impact

0:14:53homebased businesses. Uh we just had a

0:14:55situation just a couple of months ago in

0:14:57our uh board meeting uh where this come

0:15:00in effect as of uh July the 7th of 2026.

0:15:04Uh so we cannot restrict certain

0:15:07homebased business in their homes. The

0:15:08key is is not having uh increase in foot

0:15:12traffic uh not visible from the street.

0:15:16Uh that's the main part of it. and then

0:15:20then they can have employees but they

0:15:21cannot exceed the number of people

0:15:22required for the occupancy of the

0:15:24residence.

0:15:26>> If I can chime in on this one, this one

0:15:29doesn't make any sense at all because

0:15:32you cannot require an application

0:15:37to determine if they meet the standards

0:15:41of a no impact applica uh

0:15:47>> homebased business. So it says in

0:15:51excessive traffic.

0:15:53Tell me what excessive traffic is on

0:15:55Salem Street verse do street verse

0:16:01some you know alleyway

0:16:03business or property. So that's one

0:16:06issue that that you can't even test. So

0:16:10I don't know what their expectation is

0:16:13on this. It also opens a door that it

0:16:18looks like it's allowing for activities

0:16:20outside the home. Um, as long as it's

0:16:24fenced, which means welcome to Shade

0:16:28Tree Mechanic.

0:16:30Um, and and all those b all those

0:16:33complaints that we get about people

0:16:35doing business, Shade Tree Mechanic

0:16:37activity that we get into constant

0:16:40fights about, are they accepting money?

0:16:42Are they not accepting money? um and and

0:16:45those those things. So, and it's also

0:16:48only home home businesses. So, if you if

0:16:53the prop you have to live there or be a

0:16:56tenant of that, not just own it, but be

0:16:58a tenant can be either one. Um and we

0:17:02can't ask for any information ahead of

0:17:04time to determine if they meet the

0:17:07criteria that the state establishes

0:17:09because it also says that you can't

0:17:11require an application. So, I think the

0:17:14only way we're going to be able to deal

0:17:16with this stuff is that we're going to

0:17:18get a complaint.

0:17:20We're going to do an investigation

0:17:23and it's going to end up being a board

0:17:24of adjustment type situation because our

0:17:28inspectors will say, "Oh, no, that's

0:17:31clearly not, you know, a homebased

0:17:34business that does have an impact on the

0:17:36neighborhood." And the person says, "No,

0:17:38it is not." So the only way to decide

0:17:41that is to go to the board of adjustment

0:17:43and there's another section of law and

0:17:46I'm not sure how it applies to this

0:17:47particular but when it comes to planning

0:17:50in the board of adjustment it allow and

0:17:52you may were going to cover this but you

0:17:55you you can choose if you're the if

0:17:58you're the person that's the accused

0:18:01you can choose to jump the board of

0:18:04adjustment and go straight from staff

0:18:06level to what would that be

0:18:10>> superior court superior court

0:18:13>> without without the process established.

0:18:17So again what uh you know trying to work

0:18:21your way through that one is going to be

0:18:23impossible.

0:18:24>> I want to point out to the taxpayer on

0:18:27its face I was like okay cool you can

0:18:28have a homebased business if there's no

0:18:30impact. If there's no process for

0:18:32determining impact, Chuck's staff is

0:18:34going to spend a lot more time

0:18:36retroactively responding to complaints,

0:18:39finding information, gathering evidence,

0:18:41and you taxpayer are going to pay for

0:18:44it. And we can't raise taxes, so what

0:18:47are we supposed to do? I feel crazy.

0:18:51Sorry.

0:18:55>> That's true. Um, so we'll deal with it

0:18:58on case by case. uh the adult or

0:19:01orientated businesses are not allowed

0:19:03and such as uh uh in these areas though.

0:19:07Um and we will still be able to govern

0:19:10you know uh the uh I guess you they got

0:19:13sober living homes and so forth in areas

0:19:16they do have requirements they have to

0:19:17meet.

0:19:19Um,

0:19:21another one is GS160D

0:19:25uh 402.1 disclosure uh requirements for

0:19:29development and related to fees

0:19:31including uh impact fees and uh system

0:19:35development fees. Uh currently we are

0:19:37posting our fees for uh our total

0:19:40expenses for the department how much we

0:19:42received in. We've been doing that quite

0:19:44a while now. Thomas staff produces this

0:19:47once a year. We post it on the city

0:19:48website under our department. Our uh

0:19:51schedule fees are already posted online.

0:19:54Uh that's when requirements actually be

0:19:56posted. So it be available for all

0:19:58citizens to review. Uh now we have to

0:20:01give uh estimates what it's going to

0:20:03cost for a development or any other type

0:20:06of projects going on in advance uh

0:20:09within 10 days. Uh so uh like uh for uh

0:20:14so division is to one is your base fee

0:20:16and 37 per watt. So that's what we

0:20:18provide them. Storm water review, we'll

0:20:21say $1,250 and so forth. So we'll give

0:20:23that to them up front. So know what

0:20:25their cost is and as the project change,

0:20:27we'll come back and just update the

0:20:30estimate at that point in time. So we've

0:20:32just been transparent what our fees are

0:20:34here at the city and for our citizens as

0:20:38well.

0:20:46And then storm water control is under

0:20:49GS1 uh 43 214.7.

0:20:53[clears throat] Uh basically uh exists

0:20:55and build upon areas can't uh be

0:20:57calculated into the storm water uh

0:21:01calculation of any addition or of a

0:21:04project or development. Uh we have many

0:21:06sites that are being redeveloped that

0:21:08currently has uh asphalt or impervious

0:21:10areas with structures when they're

0:21:12removed. Usually we require the surveyor

0:21:14go ahead and document those areas. So it

0:21:16won't be included in the calculation. So

0:21:19they uh the standard minimum requirement

0:21:2124%. Uh so we are currently already

0:21:25doing this already even though the

0:21:27states have put it on our in our system

0:21:30here. And then Michael uh was pointing

0:21:32out the things of uh it's not in your

0:21:35system as well on your packet uh with

0:21:38Vesta right is another one I came across

0:21:40is the GS160D 108

0:21:43uh basically given u uh you could

0:21:46challenge u well right is increased from

0:21:51um two years to 5 years now so on a

0:21:53development project and looks like that

0:21:56um might have went in effect as of

0:21:57August the 11th

0:22:00Um,

0:22:01we was talking about accessory

0:22:03dwellings. That came up a lot, but

0:22:04that's only for larger cities that are

0:22:0650,000 plus. That's something we may

0:22:08want to consider in the near future for

0:22:10our jurisdiction. We'll see how other

0:22:11city handles that. Uh, because I get a

0:22:14lot of requests for accessory dwellings

0:22:15and uh residential dwell uh

0:22:18neighborhoods.

0:22:20And then also um challenges to

0:22:23development and regulation

0:22:25um that there is increased from uh one

0:22:29year to three years now and uh so you uh

0:22:33they can come back within the three

0:22:35years to challenge any decision that was

0:22:38made by the board and

0:22:45that's all I have for now. Thank you

0:22:47>> along with Chugs.

0:22:50Along with what Chuck is saying, there's

0:22:51a couple other things I just wanted to

0:22:53add. Um, they also are making it so that

0:22:56these these planning board decisions are

0:22:58going to be easily challen

0:23:05attorney's fees in the event we lose

0:23:07automatically. Used to that was at the

0:23:09judge's discretion. Now it's basically

0:23:12it's an automatic. So that is a big

0:23:14costly thing. I know the town of Denton

0:23:16has been going through that quite a bit

0:23:18with some issues with planning and some

0:23:20appeals that have been filed and if that

0:23:23was in effect they could have been

0:23:24looking at you know getting hit with 75

0:23:2680 $100,000 in attorney fees boom boom

0:23:29so it's just something that you have to

0:23:31be cognizant of doesn't make any sense

0:23:33the way they're doing it but again it's

0:23:35just something that we have to be

0:23:36cognizant of and the ETJ so there's a

0:23:39proposal out there to do away with the

0:23:40ETJ so um the way that the bill was out

0:23:45there has passed one it's still waiting

0:23:47on the other but it to do away with the

0:23:49the original bill was to do away with

0:23:51the ETJ in

0:23:53larger cities effective October 1st this

0:23:56year and smaller it's counties under

0:23:5950,000 October 1st 2027 but that's still

0:24:03hanging in the air but it's in the

0:24:04pipeline and again it's the bigger

0:24:07control wanting to do away with small

0:24:10so just be cognizant of that as well

0:24:16just make sure that's

0:24:21>> [clears throat]

0:24:32>> Good morning y'all.

0:24:36In your packet I had put three things

0:24:37but I became aware of two more this

0:24:39morning. So, you know,

0:24:42uh, the main three that I that I was

0:24:45aware of were session law 2026-32

0:24:49and House Bill 376.

0:24:51Thomas covered part of that, the uh,

0:24:54limitation on outside rates. Um,

0:24:57that was the second thing I was going to

0:24:59cover. Uh the first thing they addressed

0:25:01in in 162A-19.1

0:25:05is if if a municipality or entity

0:25:08decided to sell a public utility to a

0:25:11private entity. There's a whole bunch of

0:25:12regulations and rules about that and

0:25:15what the funds received for that would

0:25:17be mandated to be used for uh paying

0:25:20back federal grants etc. Um it really

0:25:23doesn't affect us since there are no

0:25:24plans that I'm aware of to sell water or

0:25:26wastewater utilities. Um the second was

0:25:30the rate structure. Uh the third is a

0:25:35mandate for that the environmental

0:25:36management commission study the rates

0:25:39that are required to be used for

0:25:41engineering designs for sewer flows. Um

0:25:45part of it is to make sure that the

0:25:46rates that the mandated flow figures are

0:25:49accurate which is absolutely fair. Um

0:25:53and you know that's good that they're

0:25:55doing that. Um, I kind of interpret it

0:25:58as a an attempt by the legislature to

0:26:03uh force utilities to uh accept

0:26:08additional development without any

0:26:09infrastructure improvements, without the

0:26:11state having to fund any infrastructure

0:26:13improvements is pretty that's the subtle

0:26:17meaning of it. Um, the two other things

0:26:20I became aware of this morning

0:26:23[clears throat] was a change to

0:26:25uh GS

0:26:28138-485.

0:26:31Um, merely that the definition of the

0:26:34official definition of first responders,

0:26:36water and wastewater utility

0:26:37professionals were finally added to

0:26:38that. They should have been decades ago,

0:26:41but they finally were added to that. So,

0:26:44they are officially first responders

0:26:45now. Um and then the other thing that

0:26:48changed was they added uh and uh police

0:26:53chief may cover this. Um they added a

0:26:57provision in law creating a class one

0:26:59misdemeanor for possession of non-ferris

0:27:02metals that are intended to be used in

0:27:04utilities um by anyone who's not doing

0:27:08utility work.

0:27:10a little strange, but um

0:27:14but we've it go I think it goes back to

0:27:17back when

0:27:20whatever the drug was at the time. I

0:27:22don't know. Everybody does so many of

0:27:23them. whatever it was back when they

0:27:25were back when they were stealing all

0:27:27the uh copper and brass. Um

0:27:31uh they were yanking them out of the

0:27:34ground, selling them at recycle yards

0:27:36for pennies on the a dollar and buying

0:27:39whatever drugs and there was nothing we

0:27:41could do about it. Um they changed some

0:27:45of the law. Uh this [snorts] probably

0:27:48will help to address that. It still

0:27:50doesn't help with the ferris materials.

0:27:52Um because like example a manhole cover

0:27:55weighs about 125 pounds. Um and you can

0:27:58take it recycle yard and sell it. Um and

0:28:01unless literally unless city of

0:28:04Thomasville is cast into the metal,

0:28:07they can just say nope not yours even

0:28:10though you obviously know it's yours. So

0:28:13doesn't really help.

0:28:15It's a start. Do you is there a reason

0:28:18why ferris metals were excluded?

0:28:20>> I have no idea.

0:28:21>> That's so interesting.

0:28:22>> Yeah, I I really honestly have no idea

0:28:24why they would do that.

0:28:26>> I don't know why they're doing a lot of

0:28:28this. So, I guess it follows that this

0:28:30wouldn't make sense.

0:28:31>> A lot of questions about the legislature

0:28:32this year.

0:28:38>> Can I ask you a question? Is that new

0:28:41law

0:28:44responders?

0:28:44>> Yes.

0:28:45>> Is that a feel good or is there some

0:28:48benefit or pain created by

0:28:54>> uh it may just be a feel-good thing

0:28:56because all they did was literally they

0:28:58added they added the words water and

0:29:01wastewater utility professionals to the

0:29:03definition of first responders.

0:29:05>> Do I'm going to lean on our EMS people.

0:29:09Do you think that that has helped that

0:29:11that's something to do with refund re

0:29:14like FEMA reimbursement or um overtime

0:29:18situations?

0:29:20>> Could be the act for reimbursement, but

0:29:23it also could be something related to um

0:29:28separation agreements for public safety.

0:29:30You know, there's a push across the

0:29:32state for all of public safety to get a

0:29:35separation allowance at the moment they

0:29:36retire. there could be a side implica

0:29:38imp implication for that that uh sort of

0:29:40an unintended consequence that's out

0:29:42there that you're not aware of. Another

0:29:44unfunded mandate are also and this just

0:29:48thought occurred to me if if a emergency

0:29:52services or first responder

0:29:56um is physically attacked

0:29:59for whatever reason what while in the

0:30:01process of their duties.

0:30:04Is there are there I feel like there

0:30:06might be special

0:30:09um jurisdiction like like higher level

0:30:12violations. So would that also

0:30:16potentially be in place? Meaning that a

0:30:19walker a water sewer worker who is

0:30:23attacked now it's a now you've attacked

0:30:25a first responder. So you get a you may

0:30:28have been a misnamer one now it's a

0:30:31three or something like that. Is that

0:30:33possible? I mean, I'm just trying to

0:30:34understand why. I mean, I don't disagree

0:30:37with it. I'm just trying to understand,

0:30:39you know, the the downstream effect of

0:30:42it.

0:30:42>> Yeah. I'm not I'm all I know is they

0:30:45added them to the added those

0:30:46professionals to the definition. What

0:30:48the [snorts] farreaching consequences of

0:30:51that are, I do not know.

0:30:52>> Okay. All right. Well, something else to

0:30:55be aware of. [snorts]

0:31:13>> [laughter]

0:31:14>> Um, well, I know Chief has some and um

0:31:24um does did you get the answers to about

0:31:26that what we were just mentioning about

0:31:28the

0:31:29>> I did I did

0:31:30>> and you're going to do Sam's also. Yes.

0:31:32>> Okay. All right. I think we may be

0:31:35coming up on our last one or soon as

0:31:36soon after.

0:31:38>> All right. Good morning. The um there

0:31:41are several bills, some of them already

0:31:43been mentioned. Chuck mentioned one of

0:31:45them or Thomas one about uh not being

0:31:48able to require any additional width to

0:31:54turnabouts or culde-sacs. We currently

0:31:56do that. uh we take our largest truck

0:31:59and the fire marshall makes sure that uh

0:32:01they have a turn-in radius that they can

0:32:03get turned around in a culde-sac. Uh so

0:32:05we would have to adjust according to

0:32:08that. We also it's in there that you

0:32:10can't require anything more than what's

0:32:13DO's approval is. You can't require the

0:32:16pavement to be thicker than it than it

0:32:18currently is by DOT. So that is

0:32:20something we'll be facing. That is a

0:32:23bill that's going through through now.

0:32:25It's not it's not law. And that's

0:32:27there's some others that's specific to

0:32:29fire departments and fire service uh but

0:32:31they don't have a direct impact on the

0:32:33city. So I didn't list those like

0:32:35additional cancer services or cancer

0:32:37coverages and things like that. Sam uh

0:32:42was tasked with finding out some

0:32:44additional information. Michael had ran

0:32:46across a coats and cannons uh article

0:32:50about the emergency management act. And

0:32:52so Sam identified some additional areas

0:32:55he was unable to attend this morning. So

0:32:57I'm going to attempt to uh work through

0:32:59[snorts] his, but it gives more explicit

0:33:01authority for mitigation projects. Uh

0:33:04Thomas has clear statutory support to

0:33:06participate in projects such as

0:33:07voluntary acquisition or demolition of

0:33:10repeatedly damaged structures. So

0:33:11especially if you have uh structures

0:33:13within a flood plane that continue to

0:33:15get damaged, the city could do a

0:33:18voluntary buyout or offer a buyout. It

0:33:22has to it even states in here that it

0:33:23has to be voluntary. It cannot be from

0:33:25imminent domain. You can't force force a

0:33:28buyout. But there are options now for

0:33:32that. We also participate uh in fact if

0:33:34you remember Sam just updated and

0:33:36brought it to you all a hazard

0:33:38mitigation plan that was updated through

0:33:40Randolph and Davidson counties which is

0:33:41required by FEMA that keeps us in line

0:33:44for better opportunities for grants for

0:33:47such as this. Uh he also it's the

0:33:51relationship between Davidson County

0:33:53Emergency Management and Thomasville

0:33:55Emergency Management. It remains in

0:33:56effect. It remains strong. Uh but the

0:33:59update does not shift the county

0:34:00statutory emergency management

0:34:02coordination role or create a

0:34:04requirement for us to admit uh

0:34:06independently administer a mitigation

0:34:08buyout program. So that would typically

0:34:11still go through the county. They could

0:34:12bless us to do our own, but it would be

0:34:15voluntary and of course uh that would

0:34:17require funding from either grants or

0:34:20the city itself. Uh any questions with

0:34:23that?

0:34:24Okay. I also gave him asked him for any

0:34:28update on Jimmy's Creek. That may not be

0:34:30the time, but they are actually moving

0:34:31soil and debris out today. So that is

0:34:35that is moving forward.

0:34:37And manager, you want me to touch on the

0:34:39other

0:34:40Okay. So, um, Eddie just mentioned about

0:34:45the separation allowance. As it stands

0:34:47right now, it is a voluntary separation

0:34:50allowance that cities, mainly the ones

0:34:53with unions, are asking their city

0:34:55leadership to consider. As you notice,

0:34:57Greensboro has adopted it. High Point

0:34:59has adopted it. I just spoke with

0:35:01someone uh from High Point and they

0:35:04stated that it theirs is funded now uh

0:35:07and they are working through the

0:35:09policies of what it would be required.

0:35:11But what it is is a the separation

0:35:13allowance for law enforcement makes up

0:35:16the difference from what their 51 to 55%

0:35:19on the state retirement is until up to

0:35:21their full salary uh until they reach

0:35:23the age and age out I think at 62. So

0:35:27that is um an area that for example

0:35:32Canapapolis uh they were founded as a

0:35:35city more recently than most cities and

0:35:38they adopted that right off the bat. Uh

0:35:40so to make it equal more so for their uh

0:35:44all emergency responders. This is

0:35:46becoming a a major topic and cities that

0:35:51are able to adopt that are using it

0:35:52heavily for recruitment retention. uh

0:35:55and they are going to be uh looking to

0:35:59advertise that and to woo others uh

0:36:02people from other cities that do not

0:36:04offer that because it is substantial uh

0:36:07for for those firefighters. It also

0:36:12begins when they retire and then again

0:36:15ages out very similar to the health

0:36:17insurance that's provided to the city

0:36:19employees. Now, you have some that come

0:36:21onto the plan because they're they're

0:36:23retiring and then you have others that

0:36:25age out of the plan. So, it's very

0:36:27similar. So, there's a set and it could

0:36:29be volatile as far as how much if you

0:36:31have a large group that was hired

0:36:32together that retire together, it could

0:36:34have a more impact. Other than that,

0:36:36it's just going to be very fluid on on

0:36:39the amount of people any Right now,

0:36:43there's no bills, but the local unions

0:36:45are being pressed to take it to state

0:36:47legislature to make it a statewide

0:36:49mandate for municipal departments.

0:36:52>> Can can we go ahead and put that like a

0:36:55conversation about that on our retreat

0:36:57agenda?

0:36:58>> Certainly.

0:37:00Um, it also raises the question if water

0:37:05sewer maintenance and operations are

0:37:09first responders

0:37:11when when when this dam broke and they

0:37:16finally got this approved as a voluntary

0:37:20program. It's an unfunded mandate that

0:37:23will we will be forced to face for

0:37:27competing with the fire department. Now

0:37:30that the fire department and the police

0:37:31department have it, what about the other

0:37:34first responders? Whether they're

0:37:35considered public works, public

0:37:37utilities, the city manager, [laughter]

0:37:42>> right?

0:37:42>> The um you know, when when do those

0:37:45start those those things start tumbling

0:37:48down? And again, it's an unfunded

0:37:50mandate. It it's it's not affected by

0:37:53the state doesn't care a wit what this

0:37:57costs because they're not paying the

0:37:59bill. As a matter of fact, they want to

0:38:01make things they they did make things

0:38:03more unfair for our employees because

0:38:05they sent every police officer $1,750.

0:38:11not enough to cover the other expenses

0:38:14of a $1,750

0:38:17bonus and strictly just for them. All of

0:38:21our other employees didn't get that

0:38:23unless we chose to match it, [snorts]

0:38:25which we don't have the funds. So, this

0:38:29is the the state

0:38:32I I I don't understand. I really

0:38:34honestly don't understand although

0:38:37although I have my theories as to what

0:38:39they're doing. Um, and they're doing it

0:38:41across the board in all sorts of areas

0:38:44and it may not survive because

0:38:46legislatively we could have a different

0:38:49legislature in a month and a half. So

0:38:54>> anyway, and if you have it on the agenda

0:38:56for the

0:38:58workshop, I'll make sure I pull the

0:39:00amount of numbers that would be affected

0:39:02for you all to have a consideration of

0:39:04that as well.

0:39:06>> Okay, any questions?

0:39:08>> Thank you.

0:39:18I think we have one.

0:39:29>> [laughter]

0:39:31>> just%

0:39:36>> car insurance

0:39:39by switching to Geico.

0:39:41>> All right. Good morning, Mayor Council.

0:39:46[laughter]

0:39:48>> All right. So there have been some uh uh

0:39:50statutory changes that do affect uh the

0:39:52police department through this uh 2026

0:39:54session. So first one session law 2026

0:39:59uh-41 which is traffic stop reporting

0:40:02requirement has been repealed. Um so the

0:40:04department will discontinue that process

0:40:06of reporting traffic stop um information

0:40:10to the SBI. So, um, the next one is

0:40:14session law 2026-41,

0:40:18which is the local law enforcement

0:40:19officer bonus. It's that's been

0:40:20mentioned previously. Uh, the effective

0:40:23date is own or before October 15th,

0:40:252026. And so, I think those look to be

0:40:28dispersed maybe next week. Um, and so

0:40:30there's already been coordination with,

0:40:32uh, finance, HR, and the SBI are the

0:40:36ones that will administer that. Uh the

0:40:39next one is uh session law 2026-33

0:40:43which is a special separation allowance.

0:40:46Um and that basically revises a

0:40:48continuous service requirement for the

0:40:50special separation allowance so that

0:40:52retirement followed by a qualifying

0:40:53return to law enforcement employment

0:40:55does not automatically eliminate future

0:40:57eligibility.

0:40:58Um so there may be some uh future

0:41:00considerations uh down the road for uh

0:41:03those that may want to uh return uh to

0:41:07work. although it's very difficult to

0:41:10find those who want to return after

0:41:12receiving retirement. So, uh the next

0:41:15one is um session law 2026-41.

0:41:19Uh the effective date was also in July,

0:41:21July 7, 2026. This deals with automatic

0:41:24license plate readers. And so now it

0:41:26makes it permanent the process of

0:41:28allowing ALPR systems to be placed on

0:41:31North Carolina DOT property and rights

0:41:33away through agreements involving DOT

0:41:35and ESBI. Um, so there may this may

0:41:38provide some additional placement

0:41:40opportunities for the police department

0:41:42um in the future as far as um locating

0:41:45some ALPR networks or um cameras on DOT

0:41:49property. So we'd have to work with SBI

0:41:51through that agreement.

0:41:53Next one is session law 2026-41,

0:41:56which is the law enforcement performance

0:41:58and wellness grant. Um, the state

0:42:00provided 1.5 million in non-recurrent

0:42:03funding to the North Carolina

0:42:04Association of Chiefs of Police for

0:42:06grants to local agencies supporting law

0:42:08enforcement performance and wellness

0:42:09programs. Uh, this is a grant that we

0:42:12did receive last year. Uh, we have

0:42:14already applied for this grant this

0:42:15year. Uh, so we're hopeful that we will

0:42:17receive uh funding for that uh as well

0:42:21this year.

0:42:22Uh the next one is session law 2026-37

0:42:27which deals with criminal gang laws. The

0:42:30effective date is December 1st, 2026. It

0:42:33substantially revises gang definitions

0:42:34and methods of proof, increases

0:42:36penalties for certain gang recruitment

0:42:38offenses, extends enhanced protection

0:42:40involving recruitment of minors to

0:42:42persons under 18, and creates new gang

0:42:44related firearm offenses and sentencing

0:42:46uh enhancements.

0:42:50Uh the next one is session law 2026-41.

0:42:54Um GS references 14-159.4

0:42:59and this deals with critical

0:43:01infrastructure non-ferris metal crimes.

0:43:03Um I know um that was just previously

0:43:05spoke about. uh creates or strengthens

0:43:07criminal offenses involving theft,

0:43:09damage, cutting or unlawful possession,

0:43:11non-ferris metals associated with

0:43:13critical infrastructure, including

0:43:15utility, communications, transportation,

0:43:17public safety, water, and wastewater

0:43:20facilities.

0:43:22Uh the next one is session law 2026-46.

0:43:26Uh the GS reference is 20-141B.

0:43:29I think we spoke about that previously

0:43:32in committees last month, but the

0:43:33effective date is December 1st, 2026.

0:43:36and it sets the new default speed limit

0:43:38to 25 miles per hour uh on roadways that

0:43:41are non-paved or uh do not have center

0:43:44lines marked.

0:43:46>> Uh real quick, I apologize because I was

0:43:48not here at the last committee. We have

0:43:50kind of a lot of unmarked

0:43:53>> roads. Are we going to look at whether

0:43:55it makes more sense to mark them versus

0:43:58changing the speed limit? Okay, cool.

0:44:00We're going to have to identify which

0:44:03ones don't have center lanes,

0:44:05>> which ones don't have their own special

0:44:07speed limit already

0:44:09based on ordinance and then determine

0:44:12basically which ones we consider

0:44:16collector level streets that maybe have

0:44:18a speed limit higher than 25

0:44:22and putting up a speed limit sign on

0:44:24those cases

0:44:26>> or otherwise. So that's something that

0:44:29works and PD are going to have to work

0:44:31together to determine that we may not

0:44:34meet the December 1st deadline. So there

0:44:36could be some changes forward.

0:44:39>> It does make sense because I imagine a

0:44:41lot of those streets are the residential

0:44:42small neighbor just like the street you

0:44:45were looking at my neighborhood. So

0:44:47>> I forgot to turn on my mic. I will say

0:44:49this is the one that if you want good

0:44:52news depending how you feel about

0:44:54speeding. Um this is the one thing that

0:44:57actually makes sense to me that the

0:44:59state should have done a long long time

0:45:02ago uh regarding residential streets

0:45:05>> because but the iron the irony is is

0:45:07that they also eliminated all the

0:45:10parking standards on res in on

0:45:13residents. So now there can be 15 cars

0:45:16trying to pull out. So maybe that's why

0:45:17they dropped it to 25 is that they

0:45:19recognize that you can have all these

0:45:22cars on the street in someone's yard

0:45:24that can just, you know, pull out into

0:45:26the street. So they better lower the

0:45:27speed limit or stack up along the side

0:45:30of the road um as parking.

0:45:33Again, left hand, right hand.

0:45:35>> Well, not to bring down the vibe from

0:45:36our one piece of good news, but I

0:45:39imagine the state is not giving us money

0:45:40for new signage and painting roads and

0:45:43staff time. Okay. unfunded mandate

0:45:47number 100 billion.

0:45:55>> All right. Uh the next one is session

0:45:57law 2026-46

0:46:01and it is uh electric assisted bicycles.

0:46:04And so basically the change establishes

0:46:06three ebike classifications uh and

0:46:09operating requirements including a

0:46:10helmet requirement for persons under 18

0:46:12using class 3 ebikes. Uh, municipalities

0:46:15may also regulate ebike operating on

0:46:17sidewalks and multipath multi-use paths,

0:46:20including class restrictions, speed

0:46:22limits, and additional youth helmet

0:46:24requirements.

0:46:26[snorts]

0:46:27So, I'm certain there may be some uh

0:46:29future legislation through council uh

0:46:32dealing with uh assisted electric bikes.

0:46:36Um, and so that's that's pretty much uh

0:46:38what I was able to find um you know

0:46:40through the North Carolina Association

0:46:42Chiefs of Police where we would have a

0:46:43direct impact. Any questions?

0:46:47>> All right.

0:46:48>> Thank council.

0:46:53>> So I just have just a couple more that I

0:46:55wanted to chat with briefly. And it's

0:46:57interesting because I was on a a forum

0:46:59with a bunch of legislative attorneys

0:47:01the other day and they basically said uh

0:47:03one of them summed it up well and said

0:47:05if you stay at a holiday and express you

0:47:07probably know as much as we do. Um they

0:47:10they have issued a lot of things and

0:47:12made them very unclear. Um which is what

0:47:14legislator loves to do make it clear as

0:47:16mud. Sometimes the meanings are are are

0:47:19well intended but when you drill down in

0:47:22the details it's it's tough. So, they've

0:47:26given you a lot of mandates. They've

0:47:28told you a lot of things you have to do.

0:47:29And also, by the way, we're going to

0:47:31take away your funding source to do them

0:47:33with. So, figure that one out. So, we're

0:47:35anticipating lots of changes. We don't

0:47:37anticipate that this is going to be

0:47:39long-term, and we do think that there

0:47:40will have to be a lot of changes. One

0:47:42other thing that I wanted to point out,

0:47:44they did um and there's lots of little

0:47:47things um especially on land use and

0:47:51development 160D, you know, Tom

0:47:54Terrell's baby. um he we've there's lots

0:47:57of little issues and nuances there that

0:47:59I'll be working with Chuck to shure up

0:48:00some of the new things that are going in

0:48:02there. But with economic development, um

0:48:05the way the new economic development um

0:48:09statutes are written specifically say

0:48:11that it has to be for a expressly lawful

0:48:15purpose and that's defined in the

0:48:16statute and that relates to things that

0:48:19will increase either population in your

0:48:21community, taxable um base for the

0:48:23property, agricultural industries,

0:48:25employment, industrial output or

0:48:27business prospects. and they give lots

0:48:29of examples, but one of the key things

0:48:31is if you give an incentive that's

0:48:33greater than $25,000, that now requires

0:48:36a reporting to the auditor. And so all

0:48:39that process has to be audited. And if

0:48:41it's not reported, the finance officer

0:48:43that actually distributes that money and

0:48:45doesn't report it becomes personally

0:48:47liable. That was my favorite. I'm sure

0:48:49that's exciting to you. Um,

0:48:51>> unrelated, Thomas has asked for 25%.

0:48:54Yeah, [laughter]

0:48:57>> personal liability, which I thought was

0:48:59interesting. Yeah. Um, that was just a

0:49:02zinger that was stuck in there. Um, is

0:49:04there anything else you wanted to add to

0:49:05that, Michael?

0:49:06>> Uh, not on the economic development.

0:49:08>> Okay.

0:49:09>> So,

0:49:10>> go ahead.

0:49:12>> Go ahead.

0:49:12>> I do have also a few that are watching

0:49:20>> usually do so well with that. um the

0:49:24sales tax. So in the again uh this from

0:49:31the federal government they passed the I

0:49:34think this was in their one big

0:49:37beautiful bill. Um they they changed the

0:49:43uh food stamp allocation

0:49:46[snorts] uh

0:49:49uh

0:49:51I can't think of what the word is um

0:49:53>> SNAP the SNAP benefits and uh and how

0:49:56much uh is done wrong. So so there's

0:50:00like an estimated well not not

0:50:02necessarily fraud just misappropriation

0:50:05based on the processes that the state

0:50:08does. Every state runs their own

0:50:10program. Our state divides that duty up

0:50:13with the counties. Um, and so what ends

0:50:17up happening is is that if there is a uh

0:50:21a violation of more than 5% of the of

0:50:23the cases that that are misapplied and

0:50:27uh then the state falls under a program

0:50:30that says this federal government's

0:50:32going to claw back the the money. And so

0:50:37then the state came up with their own

0:50:39rules and applied it to all the counties

0:50:41and said, "County,

0:50:44you all of you will have to pay

0:50:46something whether you get it right or

0:50:48not because we're a state." Um, and so

0:50:52there's a certain amount that they're

0:50:54going to get that everyone will get

0:50:55charged, but if your county has a

0:50:58failure rate of more than 5%, 6%, 7%,

0:51:01it's it's a sliding scale, they claw

0:51:04back more money. Well, where do they get

0:51:06the money? They get it from the sales

0:51:08tax

0:51:10in counties that use there's two methods

0:51:14of of allocating sales tax. One is per

0:51:18capita, meaning that they add up and

0:51:20figure out what the you know what

0:51:22percentage of Thomasville makes up the

0:51:24percentage of Davidson County and then

0:51:27they give the funds based on that. The

0:51:29other is what they call the ad valorum

0:51:31which is based on property tax ratios

0:51:35across the county. So, it it it's not it

0:51:40doesn't look like it's going to affect

0:51:42us right now because Davidson County's

0:51:44method of of of allocation, but this is

0:51:48basically taking money from the cities

0:51:51because the money for sales tax goes

0:51:53from the state to the to the county and

0:51:57then the county distributes from there.

0:52:00So, if the county messes up their SNAP

0:52:02benefit program and have to pay money

0:52:05back through withheld

0:52:08sales tax, that comes off the top. So,

0:52:12that means everybody in the county,

0:52:14including the jurisdictions that have

0:52:16nothing to do with SNAP, which are every

0:52:18municipality,

0:52:20um then we would be affected by that. We

0:52:23would we would have our sales tax

0:52:27reduced which potentially could be you

0:52:30know hundreds of thousands of dollars um

0:52:32at the county level which means it could

0:52:34be tens to you know 60 $70,000 for us

0:52:37which is again one of those sources of

0:52:39income that's been pretty significant

0:52:41for us and through no fault of our own

0:52:44we would be be hit by this. Now the

0:52:46league is taking a strong position on

0:52:49this and they are trying to uh work with

0:52:53the uh with the legislature to do a

0:52:56correction and say it comes out of the

0:52:58county's portion since it's a county

0:53:00service um instead of instead of the

0:53:03local government the municipal

0:53:05governments. Um but you know that we'll

0:53:09see if that has any effect. The other

0:53:12way to look at it is is that the county

0:53:14is performing a state service. So

0:53:17shouldn't the state be responsible for

0:53:19figuring out where the money comes from

0:53:21and not take it from local government?

0:53:24It's their program ultimately. So that's

0:53:27the whole purpose of a county is to act

0:53:29on state law at the local level, but

0:53:34that that's a little bit of

0:53:35grandstanding on my part. Um,

0:53:42I had one more. Um, and now it slipped

0:53:46my mind. So, we'll let it go because

0:53:48it'll come back.

0:53:50>> Is that everything for our legislative?

0:53:52>> I believe so.

0:53:53>> Okay. Okay.

0:53:55>> Okay.

0:53:55>> All right. Then we'll move on to item

0:53:57number three. Uh, presentation of Main

0:53:59Street annual report. recognize our Main

0:54:02Street director, Tammy Joyce, to

0:54:05hopefully bring us better news than what

0:54:07we just have.

0:54:12>> Yes, I was going to say good morning.

0:54:14And this is probably more fun

0:54:16information.

0:54:18>> Cameras should be here,

0:54:21>> but not the

0:54:24>> in your packet. You should have seen a

0:54:26picture of a map. And as I was uh doing

0:54:29statistics this year and working with

0:54:31the state,

0:54:33>> we were looking at our map.

0:54:36>> Eddie, are you controlling that?

0:54:38>> I'm controlling.

0:54:39>> Could you um put that map?

0:54:42>> What do you What do you mean?

0:54:43>> Uh this map that has the highlight.

0:54:44>> Okay, hold on. Sorry.

0:54:47>> No problem.

0:54:51While he's pulling that, I just want

0:54:52I'll talk you through.

0:54:54We had a map that we when Sherry Adam

0:54:56was here and we figured out a map and a

0:54:59lot of things have changed since then.

0:55:01One thing that has changed, there's a

0:55:03lot of activity. I'm actually meeting

0:55:04someone else today with small

0:55:05manufacturing at the Carolina underwear

0:55:08building. So that might happen also. But

0:55:11uh because the Shiny Happy has finally

0:55:13signed their lease, um they will

0:55:15definitely be there. So we should bring

0:55:17them into our district. That's exciting.

0:55:19Uh, and we will meet again in probably

0:55:21January and talk about bringing that

0:55:23building into the social district, but I

0:55:25was going to wait until they're further

0:55:26along with what they're doing. But so,

0:55:28and the uh the other one that you

0:55:30[snorts] see highlighted there is big

0:55:31chair. So, we left that out because it

0:55:35was never in the municip municipal the

0:55:37MSD that was done a long long long time

0:55:39ago. But as we were walking through the

0:55:41statistics, we need is you need to show

0:55:43that you have people living down

0:55:44downtown. Those people were right

0:55:46downtown. So, we added that which was

0:55:48like 134 um apartments in there. So,

0:55:52those are the two things I'm asking that

0:55:54we add to the map. And then the next

0:55:57picture just shows the map being

0:55:58updated, but um I needed to get council

0:56:01approval to add those two parcels into

0:56:05the map.

0:56:10>> So, you're requesting that we add uh the

0:56:12Carolina underwear.

0:56:14>> Yes. and uh big chair loss today.

0:56:17>> Yes. Into the map.

0:56:19>> You would vote on it at council. You

0:56:21would move that forward to council.

0:56:24>> Move it to briefing and then move it to

0:56:26council.

0:56:26>> I'm I'm fine with Carolina underwear.

0:56:28That one doesn't bother me at all. Um

0:56:31I'm just curious to know what what would

0:56:33that allow the folks at big chair lofts?

0:56:37Would they be able to carry their

0:56:39>> No, that's not social district.

0:56:41>> Well, I didn't think so.

0:56:42>> Clarify. That's why I'm not addressing

0:56:44social. I just brought that up that

0:56:46later on as they move forward.

0:56:47>> So So you're just asking that it be a

0:56:49part of the MSD

0:56:50>> uh part of Main Street community,

0:56:52>> not MSD.

0:56:53>> Okay.

0:56:54>> Because MSD is uh

0:56:57>> what's the advantage? Just to show that

0:56:58we have people living downtown, then I

0:57:00don't have a problem.

0:57:01>> That's the only thing

0:57:02>> I just wanted to clarify.

0:57:05If there was

0:57:07>> if there was a grant or if there was

0:57:10something that was related specifically

0:57:12to Main Street, then then the it would

0:57:16potentially qualify

0:57:18u you know for a Main Street grant

0:57:20separate from um MSD or anything else.

0:57:25But there's not

0:57:31>> because those numbers are in. So I

0:57:33wanted to wanted to address that first

0:57:35because those numbers are in this paper

0:57:37right here that is I'm just going to

0:57:39talk through this. Um

0:57:42>> thank you. That about killed me to get

0:57:44that all but finally got it done. Um

0:57:48so in our main street community, not

0:57:50MSD, it's different. Um there are 17. I

0:57:53just want to walk through this with you

0:57:54and I want to talk about Pace Park also.

0:57:57But um and I'm just going to go through

0:57:58a few statistics right here which y'all

0:58:00have in front of you. But um the 17

0:58:02blocks, that's the map that we have

0:58:04right there. It's literally 17 blocks.

0:58:06It don't feel like it's 17 blocks. If

0:58:08you count it up, it's 17 blocks. Um 146

0:58:11parcels, 188 units,

0:58:15782 parking spots. Um and you can I'm

0:58:19don't I'm really not going to go through

0:58:20all these. I'm highlighting a few. One

0:58:22of them is how many restaurants did you

0:58:24think we had downtown? Are you surprised

0:58:25to hear we have nine? And when I say

0:58:27downtown, I'm only talking about this

0:58:29part of the map. I'm not talking about I

0:58:32mean, we're so close to other areas, but

0:58:34that's only that 17 small blocks right

0:58:36there, right in the So, I'm saying that

0:58:39so when you hear people say we don't

0:58:40because I hear all the time, we don't

0:58:41have any restaurants. We literally have

0:58:42nine. Uh, do we want more? Yes. Are we

0:58:45going to get some variety? Yes, that's

0:58:46that's what we're working on. But you

0:58:48can share that we have nine restaurants.

0:58:50Uh, another I will tell you I got a

0:58:52phone call when I was in uh DC with

0:58:54Michael. We were in Atalia. The state

0:58:56called and said on the next page at the

0:58:59top where it says statistics right here,

0:59:01they called me. They said,

0:59:04"Did you did did Thomasville actually

0:59:06invest 855,000 into your downtown?" And

0:59:10I was like, "Yes." So, so you also hear,

0:59:12"What are we doing as a city?" I hear

0:59:14that all the time. What's the city

0:59:15doing? What's the city doing? [snorts]

0:59:16We We've invested 855,000. Now what you

0:59:20and I will tell you this is normally

0:59:22this report is only 12 months. I backed

0:59:24I think I did add in there that didn't

0:59:25happen in 12 months was the parking area

0:59:28that we well pace park where we bought

0:59:30the uh car wash. I did add that number

0:59:32which was 125,000. I did add that in

0:59:35there um because that is part of this

0:59:37whole reason we even did that was

0:59:39because of Main Street and because the

0:59:40Pace Park and expansion. So I really

0:59:42thought it was important to add it on

0:59:44because this is our first report with

0:59:45the state. Uh, and I did explain that to

0:59:47the state that that that that was

0:59:49happening more than 12 months ago, but

0:59:50was all part of what we're doing with

0:59:52downtown. Um, so I was very pleased with

0:59:55that. And

0:59:57I would love to go over any other

0:59:59numbers. If you see something on here

1:00:00you want me to talk about, I'll be glad

1:00:02to talk about it, but it's a busy

1:00:03schedule today, so I don't want to just

1:00:05But feel free to call me up. So, you're

1:00:08the first to see. I haven't passed it

1:00:09out to anybody else. I've told some of

1:00:10these numbers, but I haven't passed it

1:00:12out. And on the back, I highlighted a

1:00:14little bit about what Main Street is.

1:00:16And because Main Street, North Carolina

1:00:18Main Street is part of Main Street

1:00:20America. So, we're not part of Main

1:00:21Street America yet because you know how

1:00:23it took us two years to be part of North

1:00:24Carolina Main Street. We have to be in

1:00:26North Carolina Main Street two years

1:00:27before we can go to Main Street. But

1:00:29I've kind of put that on back. But if

1:00:31you're looking through here and you have

1:00:32any questions,

1:00:34um, oh, I do want to highlight one other

1:00:36thing. Our volunteer volunteer spotlight

1:00:38area, those are some great numbers. That

1:00:40does not include any anything that I've

1:00:43done, which I've done a lot of hours.

1:00:45Um, it doesn't include anything that

1:00:47Cameron has done downtown. It doesn't

1:00:49include anything that the chamber has

1:00:51done downtown because all of those are

1:00:53paid even though we do volunteer a lot

1:00:55too. These are just our volunteers in

1:00:57our only downtown. Um, that's a big

1:01:00number, $108,000. So, um, I think we're

1:01:03very blessed in this area to have the

1:01:05volunteers that we have.

1:01:08>> Saw that. Um it looks like we're we're

1:01:10getting a new candy store.

1:01:12>> We we are.

1:01:13>> So tell me what you know about that or

1:01:15>> it's been a long time. Yeah.

1:01:18>> Uh cuz the folks that are buying the

1:01:19store really wanted to own the building

1:01:21and as you know some of our people on

1:01:23Main Street, a lot of our owners don't

1:01:25necessarily do anything with their

1:01:27buildings, but they don't want to sell

1:01:28their buildings either. So it's been a

1:01:30struggle. Uh I work I've always worked

1:01:31close with the gentleman that owns this

1:01:33building. Uh and he's always worked well

1:01:35with me. Uh so I put them together and

1:01:37they've he does not want to sell the

1:01:39building. Uh but they he is giving them

1:01:42quite a bit of money to upfit the

1:01:43building. They are investing a lot of

1:01:45money which I try to tell entrepreneurs

1:01:47when you buy a lot of people think that

1:01:49the the person that owns the building

1:01:51their lease is supposed to they're

1:01:53supposed to pay everything including

1:01:54HVAC all this kind of stuff. That's not

1:01:56that's not I've experienced that and

1:01:59that's not what usually you have to pay.

1:02:00But there is a mindset downtown that

1:02:02you're going to go in the building and

1:02:03everything's ready for you to go. So,

1:02:05these people understand that they uh

1:02:07I've tried to get them to come to our

1:02:09business meetings um that Atalie and I

1:02:11are doing with um new entrepreneurs.

1:02:13They weren't able to come, but I've

1:02:14reached out with them. We've done a lot

1:02:16of work together. So, they are going to

1:02:17go in there. They're going to do a lot

1:02:18of upfits to the building. I feel very

1:02:20good about it. Uh they want the vintage

1:02:22vibe. They um they're going to do cotton

1:02:25candy, popcorn, some gifts, some parties

1:02:28for kids, and different little gifts. I

1:02:30don't know if y'all know what those

1:02:31little squishy things are, the

1:02:33dumplings. They, you know, they're going

1:02:34to do that kind of things.

1:02:35>> Are they local folks or

1:02:37>> They are local folks. I will tell you

1:02:39another thing. So, it's her name is

1:02:41Kathy and Olivia

1:02:44>> Bradford.

1:02:45>> Bradford. Correct. Who said that? It is

1:02:47Bradford. It is Bradford. Yes, it is

1:02:50Bradford. Actually, she just texted me.

1:02:51But anyway, um Olivia's in a wheelchair.

1:02:55And also, I told her this whole thing

1:02:56about what happened with uh the railroad

1:02:58and us trying to when Ron Bratton was on

1:03:00council, we we talked about being able

1:03:02to get across the street easily and

1:03:04there's not a way to do that. She's

1:03:05really willing to be an advocate for

1:03:07that. That'll be another maybe a year or

1:03:09so. We'll approach that also again with

1:03:10the railroad. But I really would like to

1:03:12have access to go to the other side of

1:03:14Main Street safely with a a mom with a

1:03:17wheelchair. I mean, a mom with a baby

1:03:19carriage or someone in a wheelchair, a

1:03:21stroller.

1:03:23Um but great question. I'm very excited

1:03:25about them. Unfortunately, it's just

1:03:26going to be a slow process. There's a

1:03:28lot of work that needs to be done in the

1:03:29building. It I would love to say it be

1:03:31open by December, but there's no way.

1:03:32It'll probably be the spring.

1:03:33>> Okay.

1:03:34>> And I'm very sad that that building is

1:03:35going to be open because we do such a

1:03:36great job in this town with Christmas

1:03:38and that building is going to be it's

1:03:40not there's not going to be anything

1:03:41going on there. But I'm going to try to

1:03:43talk to them about doing a popup.

1:03:44>> Oh, good.

1:03:45>> Yeah. Good.

1:03:45>> So, you might not be able to enter the

1:03:47building, but do a pop-up. That's great.

1:03:48That's what I was going to say.

1:03:49>> Any other popup?

1:03:50>> Yeah.

1:03:50>> Any other prospects downtown that you

1:03:52can mention? Um,

1:03:56>> I know things are

1:03:57>> there's not anything I can mention right

1:03:58now.

1:03:58>> Okay. I thought that might be the case.

1:04:00And

1:04:00>> there are some exciting things going on

1:04:02there.

1:04:02>> Uh, Tammy, uh, I'm just curious. I saw

1:04:05you gave us an update on uh, some of the

1:04:07work that has been done in some of those

1:04:09buildings that's had some of that

1:04:10construction wrap for over a year. Uh,

1:04:12what is our current policy for the

1:04:14construction wrap? And and then on top

1:04:16of that, do we have our inspectors that

1:04:19go in and monitor to make sure that

1:04:21they're meeting the

1:04:23>> the inspectors do go in there when there

1:04:25is uh a recommendation for them? Like if

1:04:27they're going to the next if they need

1:04:29electrical, they have to go in there and

1:04:31inspect it. As of now, both of those

1:04:32people still have time on their current

1:04:35um

1:04:38>> permit with um

1:04:39>> how much time

1:04:40>> planning and I don't know the answer to

1:04:42that, but they were get they're getting

1:04:43close. Chuck may know the answer. I

1:04:45don't know if you know the answer. I

1:04:46know we

1:04:46>> prevent stays active as long as the work

1:04:49continues

1:04:50>> and how long how do we know how do we

1:04:52know if the work continues?

1:04:55>> I know both of them are continuing. I

1:04:56personally know that.

1:04:58>> Well, basically you see activity there.

1:05:00Uh normally they'll follow the

1:05:01inspection request and it takes place

1:05:04and you can go back and look at the last

1:05:06request and then probably calculate from

1:05:08that point you know up to 12 months to

1:05:11see if any activity took place and for

1:05:15the permit.

1:05:16>> Okay.

1:05:18>> I will I know your concern and I do talk

1:05:20to both of these pe both of these

1:05:22owners. Um both of them are having

1:05:24struggles right now. The one on West

1:05:26Main is waiting on a particular

1:05:29contractor who's deals with um historic

1:05:32buildings before they remove that brick

1:05:34because when they remove that brick

1:05:36facade, there's brick behind it and they

1:05:37don't want it to be damaged. She's

1:05:39waiting on him to finish the job. Now,

1:05:41she keeps telling me in two weeks. Oh,

1:05:44I'll be there in two weeks.

1:05:45[clears throat] But I think she's just

1:05:46passing on the information that he's

1:05:47telling her. Um I I have called her

1:05:50quite often because I do have a business

1:05:52owner um 12 West Maine who is is driving

1:05:56him crazy that that it looks like that.

1:05:58So,

1:05:59>> yeah. And I I I agree with that one. And

1:06:01um and I don't want the pre I understand

1:06:03we're working on a case-byase basis for

1:06:06here now. Um, but as we're seeing a lot

1:06:08of other development hopefully here in

1:06:10the next few years with our downtown, I

1:06:13want to make sure that we have a really

1:06:14clear policy when it comes in place when

1:06:16we do have this construction wrap on for

1:06:19a building of this long magnitude. Um,

1:06:21because it is at this point creating

1:06:23problems for other businesses downtown.

1:06:25So, that's usually why, you know, it's a

1:06:28specific amount of time that's allocated

1:06:30for that business and they are crunching

1:06:32to get that deadline met. So, um I I

1:06:35definitely think this is something a

1:06:37little bit more than uh six months. All

1:06:40right. This is over a year that this has

1:06:42been up.

1:06:42>> I agree.

1:06:43>> So, that's I I don't think there's any

1:06:45ordinance currently that we that I have

1:06:47found that I can approach them with.

1:06:50>> Yeah. There's there's there's no I was

1:06:52just about to step in and and say we

1:06:54can't at this point regulate that type

1:06:58of activity. If someone is getting the

1:07:00permits, moving the permits forward,

1:07:02meeting whatever they have to meet, the

1:07:04the look of a building is not in our in

1:07:07our jurisdictional control.

1:07:10>> But there are other cities that do it

1:07:11differently. I have met someone at the

1:07:14last conference I was at that their city

1:07:16did take an approach and they did give a

1:07:19timeline

1:07:19>> right

1:07:20>> of 12 months they also so they also when

1:07:23they when it became in force if your

1:07:26building had already been empty for six

1:07:27years so it's a long time six years

1:07:30>> you were mandated at that point so I'll

1:07:32say some of our buildings that have been

1:07:34the way they look or condemned for a

1:07:37certain amount of time and and and when

1:07:39if we were to impose this particular

1:07:41ordinance. If they were in that six-year

1:07:44time frame, then they they had 12 months

1:07:46from that period when the when the

1:07:48ordinance was passed. I don't know all

1:07:49the details. I met this lady on the bus

1:07:51on the field trip to the next place. But

1:07:53I did like that. I did like the fact

1:07:55because I I was bringing up that we have

1:07:57>> you saying after six years, you'd have

1:07:58to mandate that they sell the property.

1:08:00Is that what you're saying?

1:08:01>> If you've had an empty building in six

1:08:03years when they that's when they made

1:08:05the ordinance. If your building had been

1:08:08empty for six years and you have not

1:08:10made any, now if you've made strides to

1:08:12try to change things, they didn't

1:08:14approach you. But if you'd had six

1:08:15years, no activity, had done anything,

1:08:17maybe there's X on your building, maybe

1:08:18you've used it for storage and we ask

1:08:20you not to. At that point, you had 12

1:08:22months to try to get someone to lease

1:08:24the building or upfit the building or

1:08:25sell the building.

1:08:26>> Missy,

1:08:28>> well, there's some regulations related

1:08:30to that. There are some things that you

1:08:32can put in restrictions, but there's

1:08:33some regulations. So, I can't just

1:08:35broadly say that legal. There are some

1:08:37things that you can do though.

1:08:38>> Thank you.

1:08:39>> But there are some land use

1:08:41>> Yeah.

1:08:41>> regulations that

1:08:43>> you can't do, but we can look more into

1:08:46that if that's something you're

1:08:47interested in. I can tell you what you

1:08:48legally can and cannot do.

1:08:50>> And it was in the district, right? So,

1:08:52if you were outside the district, it's a

1:08:54it's a whole different approach. But if

1:08:55you were in the district, which we were

1:08:57highlighting right now, then you had u

1:08:59this particular ordinance

1:09:02stuff. I think we should definitely put

1:09:04this on the agenda for the retreat

1:09:06because I think a lot of us are really

1:09:07interested in kind of encouraging our

1:09:10downtown owners

1:09:12>> as is to make some moves

1:09:13>> as am I. It also when you work so hard

1:09:17to get someone like I'll just use shiny

1:09:19happy because they're my newest person.

1:09:21>> Um and you promise them there's a lot of

1:09:24things going to happen and there a lot

1:09:25of things are happening and then they

1:09:26see these buildings. It's very

1:09:28discouraging and it is discouraging when

1:09:30other business owners um have to see

1:09:32boards for more than 12 months

1:09:35>> and when it's affecting the business,

1:09:38you know.

1:09:40>> Yeah.

1:09:42>> Correct.

1:09:43>> Tammy, what's going on at the Traxxler's

1:09:45building? The old Traxxler's building.

1:09:48>> That is one of the ones that's boarded

1:09:50up and he is working on it. He's in

1:09:53there. He's in there a lot. There's been

1:09:55a lot of discovery in that building and

1:09:58he is he has worked with um Edward Jones

1:10:03>> and even with the help of Edward Jones

1:10:05which they were going to invest some

1:10:06money for leaseold improvements is it's

1:10:08it's not reachable right now. He is

1:10:11really not sure what's going to happen

1:10:13at that building right now.

1:10:16>> So very unfortunate.

1:10:18So one other thing on my list and again

1:10:21please call me with any questions on

1:10:22this. I'm going to start passing this

1:10:23around. I haven't given it to anybody,

1:10:24but I'm start getting it out. Um, and

1:10:27uh, Michael's got it up here. I wanted

1:10:28to talk to you about um, Pace Park, and

1:10:31Corey can chime in anytime if he wants

1:10:33to, but I wanted to talk because some

1:10:35one of you asked me, it might have been

1:10:36Dana, I can't remember. It might have

1:10:38been Lisa was talking about they thought

1:10:41all the parking was going to the angled

1:10:43parking was going to be in phase one.

1:10:45And let me just explain why it is not

1:10:46going to be part of phase one is because

1:10:48we've got the funds to complete phase

1:10:50one. If we were to continue the angle

1:10:52parking into the yellow highlighting

1:10:54what you see that phase two when we go

1:10:56to construction,

1:10:58we would tear all of that infrastructure

1:11:00up going I mean because there's

1:11:02sidewalks and everything in there. So,

1:11:04um, it wouldn't make sense for us to go

1:11:06to to complete the I don't think it

1:11:08would.

1:11:10>> You want to come up just in case, Gordy?

1:11:13>> But if we did continue all the angle

1:11:16parking, there's different ways we could

1:11:19bring equipment over, but um, McGee has

1:11:22suggested that we don't do angle parking

1:11:25all the way down.

1:11:26>> You would lose the ability to use the

1:11:28parking lot. So, you would lose your

1:11:29public parking there beside the

1:11:31amphitheater. So the moment you encroach

1:11:33on that area outside of phase one, you

1:11:36would lose you're already going to lose

1:11:38the there's two entrances. You will lose

1:11:40the entrance closest to the gravel area,

1:11:43but you still maintain the entrance uh

1:11:45adjacent to the wall at the

1:11:47amphitheater. So it allows you to

1:11:48continue to use that infrastructure

1:11:50until phase two is feasible.

1:11:52>> Makes sense.

1:11:57>> Part of the parallel parking is included

1:12:00in the phase one.

1:12:01>> It is. It's in the pink area.

1:12:03>> I believe that's 10 or 11 spaces um that

1:12:06are addition.

1:12:08>> It's 10, I believe.

1:12:09>> Yeah.

1:12:10>> All right. Good deal.

1:12:12>> Very cool.

1:12:13>> Thank you guys.

1:12:14>> Tammy one question. So, uh where are we

1:12:17at with finding signs?

1:12:19>> Uh they're going in anytime.

1:12:22>> Anytime.

1:12:22>> Anytime as

1:12:23>> because we went uh last week and

1:12:25actually put uh stakes in the ground

1:12:27because D T approved everything.

1:12:29>> Okay. Great. And um they were in the

1:12:31signs were in the manufacturing. They

1:12:33had already ordered like a year ago and

1:12:35had ordered all this stuff. They just

1:12:37didn't print the signs. Okay.

1:12:38>> Cuz it was waiting on DOT.

1:12:40>> Yes. But once you do see the way signing

1:12:42way finding signs go up.

1:12:44>> Those are the larger signs. I still want

1:12:46to implement some smaller signs that are

1:12:48on like maybe on our light post as

1:12:51people walk that you can just look up

1:12:52and see. Not not necessarily for a

1:12:54driver. They're more for a person

1:12:56walking. Could we uh would it be

1:12:58possible to to bring one to council to

1:13:01show it at the council meeting? Are they

1:13:03too big? Is it too much? Too big.

1:13:04>> Yeah.

1:13:05>> Okay.

1:13:05>> Yeah. But my smaller ones that I that's

1:13:07my next phase I want to do is is for

1:13:09walking.

1:13:10>> Well, at least let's let's do some kind

1:13:12of video even if it's you, you know,

1:13:13just showing them. I think that's good

1:13:16publicity,

1:13:16>> right?

1:13:17>> To see the sign.

1:13:18>> To see the sign. Yeah.

1:13:19>> Yeah. Yeah. No problem. Thanks.

1:13:21>> Thank you, Tammy.

1:13:22>> Thank you.

1:13:25>> All right.

1:13:28Let's see here. Next. Next we have item

1:13:30number uh four, monthly update from our

1:13:34economic mobility officer.

1:13:40>> Morning, mayor and council.

1:13:42>> Morning.

1:13:44>> May give us quick

1:13:47walk you through

1:13:49this.

1:13:59Perfect. So, I just wanted to continue

1:14:01to kind of continue to understand what

1:14:04economic mobility is. A lot of people

1:14:06still don't understand what this is.

1:14:07They often confuse it with economic

1:14:10development. So, I wanted to make sure

1:14:11that we all know what that is. um since

1:14:14you're really um supporters of this role

1:14:18that doesn't really exist in a lot of

1:14:19places specifically in North Carolina

1:14:22only being three of us in the whole

1:14:24state. So I just wanted to kind of go

1:14:25and make sure that we um continue to um

1:14:28understand what that means. So basically

1:14:30has three components in the upward

1:14:32economic mobility and that's economic

1:14:34success which means that the residents

1:14:36are going to have enough funding

1:14:37themselves to be able to enjoy their

1:14:39life here in the city. um power and

1:14:41autonomy. It um that they have control

1:14:44over their lives, make meaningful

1:14:45choices and influence the policies and

1:14:48systems that shape their futures and

1:14:50then dignity and belonging. Once you

1:14:51have all those three components, then

1:14:53you have economic mobility and people

1:14:54moving upward. Um which is what we want

1:14:57for our residents.

1:14:59Um why does it matter? So it matters

1:15:02because if you see this map, it's the

1:15:06it's the American experience. So the

1:15:08opportunity to better financially than

1:15:11your parents. So for in this map

1:15:13specifically for children born around

1:15:161940 about 90% went went on to earn more

1:15:20than their parents and now it's closer

1:15:22to 50%. So as you see it's on a decline.

1:15:25So that's why economic mobility matters

1:15:27really a lot in this aspect. So I just

1:15:30wanted to make sure you know as you were

1:15:31connecting them to remove the barriers,

1:15:33connect resources and create pathways

1:15:35for them to move upward in the economic

1:15:37mobility scale. Um what do we have

1:15:40going? We have our student opportunity

1:15:42which we started our economic mobility

1:15:44internship that's going really well.

1:15:46Emma is still working um directly from

1:15:48NC State. She's working remotely. She

1:15:50works about 15 hours a week. Helps um

1:15:53tremendously in the initiatives that we

1:15:55have. We also have entrepreneurship as

1:15:57you know launch a bansa we are in

1:15:59session two right now of our program and

1:16:01then of course our new initiative which

1:16:03is the resident voice which co-design

1:16:05where we're encouraging community

1:16:07conversations with the residents to

1:16:08understand and identify the barriers

1:16:10that we're going to be tackling um in

1:16:12the top priorities for for the economic

1:16:14mobility office. Then in housing, we're

1:16:16exploring housing related opportunities

1:16:18and challenges through the leans. Um and

1:16:21then of course continuing to build

1:16:22partnerships with community um and

1:16:24throughout the city in collaborations.

1:16:28And like I said, economic mobility

1:16:30requires a connected appro approach, not

1:16:32a single department. So we're kind of

1:16:34embedded everywhere throughout the city.

1:16:36Um in September, we have had already two

1:16:39launch of Ansa classes up to this

1:16:41moment. We'll have our third class, our

1:16:43fourth class by by the time that when

1:16:45when I turned this in, we only had two.

1:16:47We're about to have our fourth class

1:16:49this coming Thursday. You're more than

1:16:50welcome to come. Um just examine. You

1:16:53don't have to stay. If you wanted to

1:16:54come at the beginning and just say a few

1:16:56words to our entrepreneurs, it would be

1:16:58very very encouraging. They always love

1:16:59to listen to um the people that are

1:17:02actually supporting this initiative. Um

1:17:04it's here at the Thomasville Aquatic

1:17:06Center. It starts at 6:30 and you're

1:17:08more than welcome to come just for like

1:17:105 10 minutes. they get really excited

1:17:12about that. Um, we're also having our

1:17:14second resident codeesign meeting. We've

1:17:16already completed the second code

1:17:18resident meeting where we brought a co

1:17:20um a group of residents to help us walk

1:17:23through some of the um community

1:17:25conversations that they're having um

1:17:26outside of that. We're about to do our

1:17:29third one um next week on the 14th. Um

1:17:32to this point of as you know we've had

1:17:3560 graduates um 23 business grants and

1:17:38offered already um $34,000

1:17:40and we've um established new

1:17:42connections. We continue to build

1:17:44connections for different resources like

1:17:46BNI has been another one institute and

1:17:49other community resources so we continue

1:17:51to build them here so we can create

1:17:53those pathways um in partnerships and

1:17:55business spotlights. Um we are

1:17:57continuing to build that network. We're

1:17:59going and attending the ICMA and NLC

1:18:01meetings that we um attend a monthly

1:18:04basis. Um as you know, we were in August

1:18:06back in in DC. Um we're having a

1:18:09collaboration with Main Street program

1:18:10so that we have local business

1:18:12opportunities. Um and then the new

1:18:14resources BNI and Karatan Institute. And

1:18:17then um for the business spotlight, you

1:18:19know, the bakery, um they had a couple

1:18:21things going on. they are going to go

1:18:23into the shops from Salem um that are

1:18:26going to be starting up in in the

1:18:28holiday. So, they're going to be one of

1:18:29those businesses there um helping them

1:18:32with that process, which is one of the

1:18:34things that we wanted to do when we

1:18:35built this program. They are also they

1:18:38have also been um selected to be

1:18:40business of the month by the

1:18:41beautifification committee. So, that was

1:18:42really exciting and they can continue to

1:18:45make progress in that aspect.

1:18:48Um, looking ahead, what we have is that

1:18:50we are going to be completing session

1:18:52two for our launch of ONSE program. We

1:18:54have we're going to be awarding six

1:18:56grants. They're very competitive this

1:18:58time. We have one $2,500 grant, one

1:19:00$3,500 grant, two $4,000 grants, and two

1:19:04$5,000 grants. So, we're awarding

1:19:06$24,000 grants in the in the fall. So,

1:19:08we're very very excited. We have about

1:19:10from our both cohorts um we have had um

1:19:1422 participants. So, that's really good.

1:19:16and about 13 of them are going to be

1:19:18pitching. They have certain requirements

1:19:19that they have to meet. They have to

1:19:21come to all four classes. They cannot

1:19:23miss any classes whatsoever in order for

1:19:24them to remain competitive on this. We

1:19:27are also including pitch competition um

1:19:29preparation for them to be really

1:19:31prepared for that pitch competition and

1:19:33they're really excited. We're going to

1:19:35do two different sessions. It's going to

1:19:37be October 13th and October 15th.

1:19:40They're both going to be from 6 to 8.

1:19:42The first one on October for 13 will be

1:19:44here at the Thomasville Aquatic Center

1:19:46and the one on the 15th is going to be

1:19:48at the Thomasville Women's Club and I

1:19:49will be sending out some um calendar

1:19:51invites if you'd like to come and join

1:19:53us for that. Um our resident code

1:19:55design, we are going to continue

1:19:56exploring our themes in the community

1:19:58conversations. We are going to be

1:20:00holding the third one this month and

1:20:03then in November we're going to be

1:20:05holding the the last one. And then

1:20:07within those two, we're going to be

1:20:08holding two different working groups

1:20:10which are including all organizations

1:20:12and nonprofits that after we have those

1:20:14conversations and bring those back and

1:20:16we're basically going to map out what we

1:20:18have um in place what the residents are

1:20:21saying. One of the things that I would

1:20:22like to point out is that you know we

1:20:24kind of continue to say well we have

1:20:26different things out there but people

1:20:28are not getting all of these resources.

1:20:30from the group of the 10 people that I

1:20:32have or 12 people, they I I often

1:20:35mention resources that everybody kind of

1:20:37knows, but they're not aware for them.

1:20:39So, we need to continue to figure out

1:20:40what is the best way to make sure that

1:20:42those resources are um getting to them.

1:20:45So, we're working through that. We have

1:20:46our first meeting for our working group.

1:20:48Um it's about 10 organizations that

1:20:51we're going to bring together that offer

1:20:53all of these different resources um

1:20:55throughout Davidson County, specifically

1:20:57for um Thomasville. We're going to be

1:21:00holding that tomorrow. Um and then kind

1:21:02of bringing out more themes and specific

1:21:05information that we would like to tackle

1:21:06that are going to be done through this

1:21:08um this codeesign process. Um housing

1:21:10and economic mobility. We're going to

1:21:12continue reviewing our lean related um

1:21:14property information and identifying

1:21:16those opportunities. So that means you

1:21:18know connecting them with different

1:21:19resources or different opportunities for

1:21:22those um that housing. So that should be

1:21:24coming in the last quarter of this of

1:21:26this year to make sure that we have some

1:21:28um already established pro processes for

1:21:32that. And then we I will be gone um to

1:21:36Long Beach, California. We're we're

1:21:38going to go um Eddie and myself are

1:21:40going to go to the ICMA annual meeting.

1:21:42It's going to be the 16th through the

1:21:4321st and we're very excited to be part

1:21:45of that. Um any questions?

1:21:50Yeah, I was going to ask how are some of

1:21:51the uh previous uh grant winners doing?

1:21:54How are their businesses going?

1:21:55>> They are really doing really good. I

1:21:57will um have some statistics and

1:22:00analytics for you by probably November

1:22:02when we're done with it. Um a lot of

1:22:04them are using their money very wisely

1:22:06there like big chair dogs, you know, pan

1:22:08pande. Um one of the things that we are

1:22:12kind of looking a little bit differently

1:22:14is all our trades people. So, our trace

1:22:16people have contact me and said, "Hey,

1:22:18you know, I see there's a lot of help

1:22:20going to the people that are having

1:22:22storefronts, which is a lot easier to

1:22:23do, but um we're looking for innovative

1:22:26ways to help them as well because we

1:22:28want them to succeed here in

1:22:29Thomasville. We don't want them to be

1:22:30going anywhere. They would like to stay

1:22:33here in Thomasville, and they expressed

1:22:34a lot of um detail on that. But we're

1:22:36looking at different ways like maybe

1:22:38maybe some a trade vendor fair maybe in

1:22:40the spring or something like that where

1:22:41we can bring them all together and in

1:22:43and for most of them I think about

1:22:48uh 100% of them they're doing they they

1:22:50have spent those funds into their um

1:22:53businesses and it's helping them advance

1:22:55in in some kind of way. Um I think not

1:22:58only in terms of the grants but also

1:23:00what the program kind of entails which

1:23:02is a community of resources making sure

1:23:04that they're stay they stay connected.

1:23:06We're giving them information about

1:23:08different grants and additional things

1:23:10and opportunities that they can

1:23:11participate in which is why it's so

1:23:13important to continue bring those

1:23:14resources here because the idea is that

1:23:16I'm not going to be able to hold their

1:23:17hand you know throughout the whole

1:23:19process but I want to make sure that

1:23:20they have connections through the end.

1:23:22one of the best statistics that we'll

1:23:24have which is it's great but it's scary

1:23:27at the same time. It's not really the

1:23:30impact right now is really great and

1:23:32it's amazing that we have so many

1:23:34participants and we're giving so much

1:23:35money away. But the true um the the true

1:23:39test of the program will be at the end

1:23:41of the two years because at the end of

1:23:42the two years we'll have statistics that

1:23:45will show um you know how many

1:23:47connections we're able to make that they

1:23:48have access to capital resources, how

1:23:51many employees are there are are they

1:23:53hiring more. So, that will be the true

1:23:55testament of what the program is and how

1:23:57we're going to be able to um make sure

1:23:59that that people know the impact of it,

1:24:02not only by giving away money because a

1:24:04lot of municipalities do that and

1:24:06they're really great at that and we can

1:24:09continue to find resources to give away

1:24:11money, but it's more about ongoing um

1:24:14sustainability, which is with resources,

1:24:16support um what kind of network that we

1:24:19have and um and I think that's what our

1:24:22program stands out for. A lot of people

1:24:23that listen to our um presentation back

1:24:26in DC, they they really like the idea of

1:24:28our community, our alumni kind of

1:24:31network, what what's next after they

1:24:33graduate. And it's that ongoing support,

1:24:36not by myself and handing them all the

1:24:39you know, taking them by the hand the

1:24:40whole time, but making sure that they

1:24:42have the adequate person to continue to

1:24:45follow through. And if that doesn't

1:24:46happen, what can be done next? We also

1:24:49created our business um net directory. I

1:24:52will be sharing that with you. Um so

1:24:54people that have come through our

1:24:55program, we have the type of business

1:24:56and all that stuff. So we can go ahead

1:24:58and and and help those um business

1:25:00owners. One of the things that has come

1:25:02up is they they say well you know I've

1:25:06been here and I think these are people

1:25:08that have been frustrated for a while

1:25:10maybe four to five years where there's

1:25:11nothing that has been coming through and

1:25:13you know suddenly I come along and I

1:25:16open my door and I'm like please tell me

1:25:17anything that you want and they're like

1:25:19well we haven't even had you know one um

1:25:22quote for anything like this and so I

1:25:24always assure them I'm like this is a

1:25:26process we're not it's not going to

1:25:28change overnight but we're making

1:25:30strides to do that like you know the

1:25:31Thomasville Chamber of Commerce is a

1:25:33great way you know being in Rotary um

1:25:35also highlighting those businesses help

1:25:38all of these businesses being be be

1:25:40heard and that we're we have them here.

1:25:44I want to real quick I went to the

1:25:45Lexington City Council meeting last

1:25:47month and Adalia was there to receive

1:25:49the Hispanic Heritage Month proclamation

1:25:52and the mayor of Lexington gave her the

1:25:55opportunity to talk about the work she's

1:25:56doing in Thomasville and the impact that

1:25:58it's having here which was very cool

1:26:00that it's kind of spreading throughout

1:26:02the county and I'm excited to see where

1:26:04it continues to go.

1:26:05>> Definitely adding on to what

1:26:06Councilwoman Williams said I definitely

1:26:09appreciate that boots on the ground

1:26:10approach you took Natalia. um when I'm

1:26:12talking to our business owners in our

1:26:13community, one of the first things

1:26:14they're raving about is you and the

1:26:16connections that you've been able to

1:26:17start building with some of these folks

1:26:18that you mentioned um that have felt uh

1:26:20not involved in the conversation for a

1:26:22long time. So, I definitely appreciate

1:26:24you for that.

1:26:24>> I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

1:26:26>> Thank you.

1:26:27>> Thanks.

1:26:28>> Thank you.

1:26:29>> Next up, we have item number five, uh

1:26:32update on the IT pilot uh projects. I'll

1:26:34recognize our deputy city manager.

1:26:37>> Thank you. Michael asked that I just

1:26:38kind of give you an update. So, as you

1:26:40know, we formed the city's technology

1:26:41and innovation committee, and the

1:26:42committee was formed to evaluate what

1:26:45emerging technologies are out there um

1:26:47and how we can utilize that to increase

1:26:49organizational efficiency and strength

1:26:51our strengthen our responsible um uses

1:26:54of emerging technology. And so, through

1:26:56the meetings with the tech and

1:26:58innovation committee, we identified

1:27:00three separate pilot projects um that we

1:27:02wanted to move forward and we're in the

1:27:04process of imp implementation for all

1:27:06three of those. Um these are as you know

1:27:08funded by the insurance proceeds from

1:27:11the cyber attack that we received which

1:27:13established a funding source for the

1:27:15tech innovation committee to actually

1:27:17roll out some of their projects. Um

1:27:19there are three in particular that have

1:27:21been identified at this time. Um the

1:27:23first being govai. Um, as you know,

1:27:25there are a number of versions between

1:27:28chatgpt, perplexity, clawed. Um, there

1:27:31are a number of AI programs out there to

1:27:33help folks um research data um provide

1:27:37resources back to you to to make an

1:27:40educated decision on whatever the topic

1:27:41might be. [snorts] So, we've had

1:27:44subscriptions for our employees where

1:27:46they would use chat GPT and per employee

1:27:49it was costing about $20 per employee

1:27:50per month. And what we determined is

1:27:52that there was really no mechanism in

1:27:54place to fulfill foyer requests, a

1:27:57freedom of information act request. And

1:28:00in doing so, we started researching,

1:28:02okay, how do we bridge this gap? Not

1:28:03only how do we provide the services of

1:28:06AI to our employees for research

1:28:08purposes, but also how do we fulfill

1:28:11foyer requests at the time that they

1:28:12came to the city as a request. And then

1:28:15lastly, how do we monitor this

1:28:17information? And so if folks were

1:28:19typically using chat GPT as their AI

1:28:23model to do research and write letters

1:28:25and using the agentic AI portion of it

1:28:27where it does the work for them. How are

1:28:30we monitoring as a city? We have a

1:28:32responsibility to be monitoring that

1:28:34data and see what information is being

1:28:36researched and what information is being

1:28:38published. As you know about two years

1:28:40ago, we were one of the first cities in

1:28:42the state of North Carolina to actually

1:28:43implement an AI policy. And our AI

1:28:45policy is very clear. If you're using AI

1:28:47to do your work, you had to notate it

1:28:49somewhere in the work that you're um

1:28:51producing and distributing. Uh we do see

1:28:54that there's not been a governance

1:28:56policy in place for AI. So we're trying

1:29:00to address those particular items. So

1:29:02for Gov AI in particular, um our

1:29:04implement implementation strategy is

1:29:06very clear. We're going to open it up

1:29:08for um all city employees have access to

1:29:10it. So, if you're using AI to produce

1:29:13any work on behalf of the city of

1:29:15Thomasville, this will be your one-stop

1:29:16shop. This will be where all of our

1:29:18employees will go to. That is important

1:29:21because when folks do a foyer request

1:29:23and say, "I want to see what information

1:29:24you're using." In particular, one city

1:29:27loaded all of their u information. They

1:29:31had RFQS out and they said, "Okay, we're

1:29:34going to evaluate all of these firms.

1:29:36we're going to grade them and I want you

1:29:38to exclude firm B from the grading. I

1:29:42don't want them to win this. There was a

1:29:44foyer request that came through and that

1:29:45city got caught doing that sort of thing

1:29:48where they were saying, "Oh, we were

1:29:50excluding this firm for whatever

1:29:51reason." And so we want to make sure in

1:29:54the future that we're guarded against

1:29:55things like that and also the accidental

1:29:58release of PII information. We don't

1:30:00want protected information getting

1:30:02distributed on the worldwide web. That

1:30:04could be an address, a name, a social

1:30:05security number, date of birth, driver's

1:30:07license number. We house all of that

1:30:09information and we don't want it

1:30:11accidentally released. So the the single

1:30:13platform we're adopting is called Gov

1:30:15AI. Govi gives us the ability to protect

1:30:18all the PII information. It'll flag it,

1:30:21it notates it, it'll send us a

1:30:22notification in leadership and say,

1:30:24"Hey, you got information. People are

1:30:26misusing the the software and they're

1:30:28putting information out there." So we

1:30:30have a check and a balance. Wendy can

1:30:32also have access as the clerk to fulfill

1:30:35foyer requests to say what's what's

1:30:38being used. And so Govai is the very

1:30:40first one we're in the process of the

1:30:42implement implementing. Um we're trying

1:30:45to target all 75% of our eligible

1:30:47employees that to use AI Gov AI in the

1:30:49first six months um and then monitor the

1:30:52adoption across it. We also are going to

1:30:55reduce the use of unapproved public AI

1:30:57systems in city business. We don't want

1:30:59folks using chat GPD perplexity clawed

1:31:01because we can't monitor that and we

1:31:03can't monitor how their information is

1:31:04being produced. There is a simple check

1:31:06box inside of the system and if you

1:31:08don't have it checked accurately the

1:31:09information you're inputting becomes

1:31:11publicly available and it becomes part

1:31:12of the large language model and the data

1:31:15you're putting out there could be picked

1:31:16up by someone else. So that's the first

1:31:18one. The second system is called

1:31:21three-fold AI. Three-fold AI is a

1:31:23resident service and operational

1:31:25automation. Um we've adopted it as a

1:31:27pilot program with two respective

1:31:29departments. One is Latoya Hans and uh

1:31:32building and collections and they're

1:31:34going to be able to use it to reduce the

1:31:35number of phone calls and citizen

1:31:37interactions. Citizen incivility in

1:31:39Thomasville is particularly high. We

1:31:41talk about it every time we do an

1:31:43employee survey. And if we can reduce

1:31:45the number of interactions and negative

1:31:47interactions with our employees, um it's

1:31:49going to help us retain employees also

1:31:51and our customers get a better customer

1:31:53service experience. And so with this

1:31:55program, it operates similar to an

1:31:57intelligent 311 system where folks will

1:31:59call the city and they'll get an AI

1:32:01person that talks them through what your

1:32:03issue is. In the background, as this

1:32:05data is being collected by AI, it's

1:32:07creating a work ticket inside of Central

1:32:09Square, which happens to be the software

1:32:11we're using. It will it it speaks to the

1:32:14software. So, we're able to route these

1:32:16service requests to the appropriate

1:32:18person in the city and not have to have

1:32:20a person involved with that interaction.

1:32:23At any point in time, the customer says,

1:32:26"I don't want to deal with AI. I'd like

1:32:27to talk directly to a person." It

1:32:29transfer them directly to the person

1:32:30they need to be with. Often times, for

1:32:33some reason, my numbers on the worldwide

1:32:35web out there about my trash didn't get

1:32:37picked up. And so, I filled maybe five

1:32:39or six calls compared to Daryl's 11,000

1:32:42calls a year. So I know what they're

1:32:43experiencing. What this will essentially

1:32:46do. The other department that is going

1:32:47to be adopted is sanitation and streets.

1:32:49So Daryl's division will also be

1:32:52involved. And so we've set up five

1:32:54particular use cases with each

1:32:56individual division. Five for utilities,

1:33:00five for streets, five for sanitation.

1:33:02And it might be as simple as my trash

1:33:03didn't get picked up. And it'll take the

1:33:06request. What it also has is a CRM

1:33:08system on the back end where the

1:33:10customer can see the status of their

1:33:12work ticket and follow the trail to

1:33:14ensure that it's being followed up on.

1:33:16And so we wanted to do five use cases

1:33:18for each division um to test the system

1:33:21as a pilot to determine whether it's a

1:33:23long-term applicable program that can

1:33:26improve efficiency within our city. Um,

1:33:29some of the metrics we're using, we

1:33:30wanted to reduce 20% reduction in 90-day

1:33:33period of the number of phone calls that

1:33:34are coming in to these respective

1:33:36departments. And so our goal would be

1:33:38for it to self-resolve or self-service

1:33:40resolution, meaning that AI was able to

1:33:42manage that call, create a work ticket,

1:33:45send it to the employee. The employee

1:33:47can get it by text message, phone call,

1:33:48email, whatever the case is, and then

1:33:51they can respond and manage that work

1:33:53ticket, and then the customer gets an

1:33:55update that it's been handled. And so

1:33:57our goal was to reduce uh by 20%. We're

1:34:00trying to be very strategic in each one

1:34:02of these programs. It's in your packet

1:34:03how we've sort of spelled out what we

1:34:05what success looks like to us and so

1:34:07that at the end of the pilot program we

1:34:09can bring back and say yes this was

1:34:11successful and this is why or no it

1:34:13wasn't and we're scrap the program and

1:34:15look for a separate program. The last

1:34:18software I'll mention is marketplace.c

1:34:20city. Marketplace.c city assist cities

1:34:23in using their RFP RFQ process and

1:34:27procurement in particular it has access

1:34:30or they have access to

1:34:32government contracts and so let's say

1:34:34for example central square is a contract

1:34:36that we use for our financial system and

1:34:39we're curious well I wonder what another

1:34:42city that uses central square is

1:34:43actually being charged for this exact

1:34:45same software we have now have access to

1:34:47it and so we can look back and say okay

1:34:50this software particular um um central

1:34:52square who uses it. Okay, I can see that

1:34:55now. I can see what they're paying for

1:34:57that software. Are we getting a good

1:34:58deal? Are we getting a bad deal? Did

1:35:00they procure it on state contract? Did

1:35:02they procure it through a a you know,

1:35:05whatever the case may be a piggyback

1:35:06contract or they just did on the open

1:35:08market RFQ? Now, our employees have the

1:35:10ability to work directly with

1:35:11marketplace.c

1:35:13city to manage the RFQ, RFP process. We

1:35:16are looking at a timekeeping system.

1:35:18timekeeping systems are a large scale

1:35:21software system where you can manage it

1:35:22for all employees on all different

1:35:24schedules and all different shifts. We

1:35:26don't have one at this moment that's

1:35:28that manages the timekeeping like we

1:35:31need to. So now Alisa and HR is working

1:35:33directly with marketplace to build an

1:35:35RFP and RFQ process to find the best

1:35:39vendor at the best price that fits the

1:35:41needs of the city. So this software will

1:35:43help us procure technology at a

1:35:46reasonably market price instead of

1:35:48paying absorbent prices, you know, based

1:35:50on what our RFP came back at or RFQ came

1:35:52back at. That's the uh we're asking for

1:35:56that for success. It looks like a target

1:35:58of 80% uh adoption rate by our

1:36:01departments and I get monthly reports

1:36:02from marketplace to tell us where we're

1:36:05at and it seems at this moment our

1:36:06employees are using that uh for data and

1:36:09research as they're trying to procure

1:36:10not only technology but let's say we

1:36:12need a local vendor to do HBAC work.

1:36:14They can do the research for us and say

1:36:16here's some vendors that you want to

1:36:18reach out to to do this type of work. So

1:36:20it's not just largecale across the

1:36:23country. It's also targeted in your

1:36:25city. uh questions that you guys may

1:36:27have about those particular programs.

1:36:30>> What is the total cost of all this?

1:36:32>> Um so the first govai was 24,000

1:36:35annually.

1:36:37Threefold is the software that's going

1:36:40to do the phone mitigation. That's

1:36:4120,000

1:36:43and marketplace.c city is 24,000

1:36:46annually.

1:36:48And again, these are pilot programs that

1:36:50we'll re-evaluate at a 90-day,

1:36:52six-month, 9month, and 12-month period

1:36:54to determine whether they achieved our

1:36:56goal and what success looks like uh to

1:36:59determine whether we want to keep them

1:37:00in the budget moving forward. We're

1:37:02using insurance proceeds now. And so it

1:37:05would be future operational expenses if

1:37:07we decide to keep them.

1:37:08>> So, you're going to bring that back to

1:37:09council for funding.

1:37:11>> It would. So based on the amount, it's

1:37:13it's low enough that it wouldn't require

1:37:15council approval because it's below the

1:37:17$90,000 threshold. But because you guys

1:37:20were kind enough to let us use insurance

1:37:23proceeds, obviously we want to bring

1:37:24this back to you and let you know the

1:37:26status of these programs and let you

1:37:27know how the pro the committee is going

1:37:29and then see what what's working well

1:37:32and what's not working well.

1:37:35I wanted to say I really like how this

1:37:37is laid out, the memo, where it defines

1:37:40what success is and then how you're

1:37:41going to measure it because it makes it

1:37:43just so clear why we're doing all this

1:37:45in the first place. I'm afraid of AI. I

1:37:47don't trust it. I think it's going to

1:37:48end civilization. But I think that this

1:37:51is a really responsible use of it

1:37:53because it can be tracked on the back

1:37:55end. Um, there are huge attorney client

1:37:59privilege concerns with AI use. And so

1:38:02if our city employees are using this

1:38:04platform that is closed loop, not open

1:38:07to the internet, that will really

1:38:08protect us in the future. So I'm

1:38:11interested to see how these work because

1:38:12I think it's really good to be as

1:38:15restrictive as possible.

1:38:16>> You worried about a number showing up? I

1:38:18don't know what that is, but probably

1:38:21>> you you all will [laughter] you all will

1:38:23have your own access to Gov AI to use it

1:38:26for governmental research um to do your

1:38:28background data that you want to look at

1:38:30for our our um committees and such.

1:38:34>> That's awesome. I definitely want to

1:38:35give kudos to you to Eddie because like

1:38:37in the beginning with the original AI

1:38:39policy and us being one of the first

1:38:41cities to move in it. Um while some

1:38:43municipalities and some even local

1:38:44governments or governments in general

1:38:45hasn't taken a real strong stance at

1:38:47making sure that we're protecting

1:38:48people's privacy, I really do appreciate

1:38:50how proactive you've been at trying to

1:38:52find the actual AI tools that are out

1:38:54there. Um because AI is a great tool to

1:38:56really kind of help reduce some of that

1:38:58stress load. Um but also making sure

1:39:00that we're protecting people. So I

1:39:02really appreciate that.

1:39:03>> Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Our goal is

1:39:04responsible governance of all those

1:39:06policies.

1:39:08>> All right. Thank you.

1:39:10>> All right. Uh item number six is

1:39:12discussion

1:39:14uh and approval of the North Carolina

1:39:16League of Municipalities Grant

1:39:17opportunity for invehicle cameras for

1:39:20city vehicles. I'll recognize our risk

1:39:22manager.

1:39:24>> Morning.

1:39:26Um, so to get started, the

1:39:29our vehicle related losses are part of

1:39:32what's our largest premium cost. Um, to

1:39:35give you a little bit of background, I'm

1:39:37on the um the state committee with the

1:39:40league representing Western North

1:39:41Carolina. I have um extensive years of

1:39:45experience with vehicle analytics and um

1:39:48technology. So they approached me and

1:39:50asked if um we would be willing to run a

1:39:53pilot program. Um the program itself um

1:39:58depending on the vehicle um and the

1:40:00equipment configuration

1:40:03um it has dual facing cameras um select

1:40:06360 degree cameras. It runs GPS, uh,

1:40:10vehicle location, travel history, speed,

1:40:13um, driver behavior information,

1:40:15collision and impact information, fuel

1:40:17consumption, idle times, vehicle

1:40:20utilization, maintenance management, and

1:40:22other vehicle safety information. So,

1:40:24it's not just a camera system.

1:40:27Um the scope as far as the vehicles that

1:40:30would be involved, our sanitation,

1:40:33garage or garbage vehicles, fire and

1:40:36emergency vehicles, police, public

1:40:38works, utility, and our fleet uh service

1:40:41vehicles. Um, one thing to note that

1:40:43that is very um, interesting is our

1:40:46sanitation garage vehicles and our

1:40:48police, excuse me, our fire trucks will

1:40:50be outfitted with 360 degree cameras um,

1:40:52and a monitor so that they can see in

1:40:55the truck all four sides of the vehicle

1:40:56at all times. Um, that's going to be

1:40:58very important with um, public works

1:41:01because with having uh, the collectors

1:41:03on the back of the truck, they can keep

1:41:04an eye on them. They can keep an eye on

1:41:06both sides of the truck. Um, and same

1:41:09thing with the uh fire vehicles, being

1:41:11able to see all around all the way

1:41:13around the fire trucks um at all times.

1:41:17Um, as far as giving you kind of a scope

1:41:19of what we're we're wanting to do. Um,

1:41:21as far as the insurance, obviously we're

1:41:23going to try to reduce our premium

1:41:25costs, um, which provides objective

1:41:28information to support claims

1:41:29investigations and support the city's

1:41:32participation in broader insurance

1:41:34initiatives. vehicle safety, reduce

1:41:37preventable uh vehicle crash and

1:41:39incidents, improve situation awareness

1:41:41on city vehicles, um and strengthen our

1:41:45overall safety program. Driver behavior,

1:41:48identify and address risky driver

1:41:51behaviors. And this as a risk manager, I

1:41:54can tell you is is the one of the key

1:41:56points because you may not have claims,

1:41:58but you may have really unacceptable

1:42:01behavior. Um I know we we had a

1:42:04situation in we didn't but in Eden where

1:42:06we had the five linemen that got ran

1:42:08over. Um they they're they're a member

1:42:12city and um they said if they would have

1:42:14had this type of vehicle or excuse me

1:42:16this this technology they would based on

1:42:19what they found out after the fact he

1:42:20was exhibiting behaviors that was

1:42:22unacceptable when they would have been

1:42:24able to probably stop that before it

1:42:26happened. Um, so we're looking at speed

1:42:29and excessive speeding, excessive

1:42:31speeding, um, hard breaking, following

1:42:34too closely, unsafe lane changes, uh,

1:42:37distracted driving. Um, one that's going

1:42:40to be very, very important is cell phone

1:42:42and handhold device utilization, texting

1:42:44while driving, um, such things like

1:42:47that. Seat belt compliance. One thing to

1:42:50note is this is really trying to provide

1:42:53opportunities for coaching and

1:42:54education. It's not just trying to lay

1:42:56the hammer down every time somebody does

1:42:58something um that may be uh incorrect.

1:43:01Um and utilizing data for recurring

1:43:04behaviors and trends. Um something

1:43:06that's very interesting is all that on

1:43:08the safety side only makes up about 50%

1:43:10of what this technology is for. Um with

1:43:14fleet maintenance and utilization is to

1:43:15improve visibility of vehicle condition

1:43:17utilization, track locations, travel,

1:43:20idle times. Um, one that's really really

1:43:23important right now is monitor fuel

1:43:24consumption. Um, to try to find out

1:43:27where our fuel efficiency is. Um, and

1:43:30that's something where, you know, on the

1:43:33idle idle times it can be, you know, in

1:43:36the winter time, in the summertime when

1:43:38we're, you know, we're keeping the

1:43:39vehicles idle longer. Some of that's

1:43:41understandable. when you're in the off,

1:43:44you know, other seasons where you just

1:43:46unreasonably just letting things just

1:43:48run just because we're gonna try to

1:43:50reduce if possible those fuel costs. Um,

1:43:54another example of of that um idle time.

1:43:57I know there's another member city had a

1:43:59situation they had selected in that

1:44:01particular department a 1 hour idle time

1:44:03notification. So once the vehicle was

1:44:05idling more an hour, it notifies the

1:44:07supervisor. But the situation here was

1:44:10it was a department that work operates

1:44:12similar to our meter readers and they're

1:44:14moving along and he had been sitting

1:44:17there for an hour. They reached out. He

1:44:19was having a medical emergency was in a

1:44:21place that they would have never known.

1:44:23Nobody probably would have ever found

1:44:24him and based on the situation. So it's

1:44:27multiaceted when it comes to some of the

1:44:29utilization. Um something that's very

1:44:32very important is the exoneration which

1:44:35is basically backing up our employees.

1:44:37um provide objective evidence when the

1:44:39city employee or vehicle is involved in

1:44:41an incident. Um I personally in the

1:44:43private sector have had situations like

1:44:45that. Um two good examples, one in uh

1:44:49Holly Springs, they had a dump truck

1:44:51roll over. The supervisor went out and

1:44:53said it was obvious that he was going

1:44:54too fast, overcorrected and rolled the

1:44:57truck. They went back and and pulled

1:44:59this information and found out no, he

1:45:01wasn't speeding. And as he went into the

1:45:03curve, he had a medical uh malfunction.

1:45:06Um so they realized that he was telling

1:45:09the truth that he wasn't doing what he

1:45:10was supposed to do. So um help defend

1:45:13employees um against legitimate claims

1:45:15and false accusations. Obviously there's

1:45:17going to be times where we're going to

1:45:19be the subject of accusations for you

1:45:23know whatever we do. I mean I just you

1:45:25know basically having this we can see

1:45:26and report on what's what's going on.

1:45:29Something that is um coming up is the

1:45:32infrastructure monitoring. Um the

1:45:36company that we're we are looking at

1:45:37utilizing has um technology that will

1:45:40allow us to monitor um

1:45:44roadway and infrastructure concerns

1:45:46during the pilot. Um we evaluate

1:45:50opportunities to identify potholes,

1:45:53missing or damaged signs, overgrown

1:45:55areas, other roadway deficiencies. Um so

1:45:59effectively all these vehicles that are

1:46:00on the road are going to be helping um

1:46:03monitor for those things and sending

1:46:05information to public works and the

1:46:07garage um so that they can be better

1:46:10prepared to identify these things before

1:46:13we have something happen or have a

1:46:15citizen you know hopefully we'll be able

1:46:17to prevent some of these things um as it

1:46:20comes along. Um,

1:46:25>> what's the yearly cost for a vehicle?

1:46:29>> Okay. So on a

1:46:32I guess you say average is around $600 a

1:46:34year.

1:46:35>> Yeah. Some

1:46:37>> they don't charge us for the camera. No,

1:46:39they don't charge us for the camera. And

1:46:40so I think it comes out to $582

1:46:44for just a dual facing and a 360 setup.

1:46:47Maybe I think 615. It roughly it

1:46:51averages out to about $600 sometime to

1:46:53perhaps

1:46:59the pilot would be approximately 40.

1:47:04>> No, no. If as far as vehicles um

1:47:06depending on Okay, so we have some

1:47:08options based on the funding. The

1:47:09funding is they're going to pay 100%.

1:47:12They're actually going to just pay the

1:47:13vendor directly. We don't even have to

1:47:14get involved on that part for the pilot.

1:47:16Um, like I said, we're going to run it

1:47:18for 12 months. We have the the decision.

1:47:21Um,

1:47:22as far as the installation of the

1:47:24equipment on the dual facing in, you

1:47:26know, just in the window, we put that in

1:47:28oursel. It's not literally one cord down

1:47:30to the OBD2. So, the but the 360 cameras

1:47:33are and putting in monitors. We would

1:47:35have to have someone and they're going

1:47:36to uh, you know, facilitate that, but

1:47:39there is a cost to that. Well, during

1:47:42the pilot program, they're paying 100%.

1:47:44So, whatever 360 cameras we want to

1:47:47have, it would be better to use those

1:47:49funds more toward them. And I think um

1:47:52Michael and I were looking at possibly

1:47:54maybe even 30 or 40 of the vehicles

1:47:56doing 360. Maybe not. We still have to

1:47:58determine that. Um

1:48:00>> you're talking about every vehicle the

1:48:01city owns, right?

1:48:02>> Not not during the pilot. I think that

1:48:04um if you looked at effectively the

1:48:07vehicles that are, you know, everyday

1:48:08use, you're probably around 200

1:48:10vehicles. So, we're looking at somewhere

1:48:12between 85 to 90 um vehicles during the

1:48:15pilot program.

1:48:18>> Thomas, am I understand and right that

1:48:19it would be primarily retroactively used

1:48:23like you're not going to be proactively

1:48:25monitoring employees? No.

1:48:28>> So, the way that it works, the process

1:48:30is the the

1:48:32>> it is recording as far as that, but as

1:48:34far as notifying us where we have to do

1:48:36anything, an event has to be triggered.

1:48:38And that's one of those things. Um, as

1:48:40far as speeding, following too closely,

1:48:42not wearing a seat belt, if it

1:48:44identifies you're you're talking, you

1:48:45know, on your cell phone. Um, it records

1:48:49that, sends that section, and they

1:48:52review it and say, is it something that

1:48:53was picked up incorrectly and no, he is

1:48:56wearing, you know, or whatever. They

1:48:58send it to me. I review it and if it's

1:49:00something that needs to be addressed,

1:49:02then I can just send that clip straight

1:49:04to the supervisor and say, "Hey, you

1:49:05need to address this for coaching or

1:49:06whatnot." and then I'm keeping all the

1:49:08data which is what the league wants. Um

1:49:12and it's not as far as individuals, it's

1:49:15example like when I was in the private

1:49:17sector when we first rolled out um it in

1:49:21Charlotte the first month we had 90 seat

1:49:24belt violations. Um we went ahead and

1:49:26started doing a coach and the next

1:49:28months there was 32. So that's the data

1:49:30that that the the league wants to see

1:49:33when it comes to cell phones or you know

1:49:35all the different types of violations.

1:49:37So

1:49:38>> do you have any push back from employees

1:49:40from the dual facing cameras like they

1:49:42feel like they're being watched all the

1:49:43time?

1:49:44>> So when in the private sector never

1:49:45heard a word um being that this is going

1:49:48to be something new I'm sure we'll

1:49:49probably but one thing that's very

1:49:52important is we're not going to utilize

1:49:53any audio whatsoever. So, as far as the

1:49:56the camera goes, um you know, if if a

1:50:00citizen can come up and look in your

1:50:01window, it's no different than that as

1:50:04far as that's concerned. Uh

1:50:06>> yeah, I mean, it it's going to be

1:50:07anytime it's new, but again, this is

1:50:09more of a data collection type

1:50:12situation. We're going to be able to to

1:50:14see how it's going to operate. Um there

1:50:17again, if we do see something that needs

1:50:19to be addressed immediately, we can. Um

1:50:23but that's not necessarily the purpose.

1:50:24The purpose is more like again besides

1:50:27the other infrastructure and the and the

1:50:28other as far as safety goes, it's more

1:50:30on the coaching and and trying to change

1:50:33behavior because that's what's going to

1:50:35make a difference. Um again,

1:50:37>> I want to make sure I understand. So

1:50:39there's no cost to us for the pilot. How

1:50:41how long is the pilot?

1:50:42>> 12 months.

1:50:43>> 12 months.

1:50:44>> Okay. I don't necessarily have a problem

1:50:46with it to try the pilot and then come

1:50:49back to council and share the data and

1:50:51see if it's something we wanted to

1:50:53proceed with. that just keeping cost in

1:50:55in our mind too.

1:50:58>> Yeah. Obviously, this is our fourth

1:51:01pilot that we talked about this morning.

1:51:03>> Yeah.

1:51:03>> Turn your mic on.

1:51:07>> Can we just hang on?

1:51:08>> Yeah.

1:51:09>> Um, so the, uh, you know, this is our

1:51:13fourth pilot. This one is 100% covered

1:51:16by the League of Municipalities. We're

1:51:19not even taking any funds in and having

1:51:21to bother Thomas with a budget amendment

1:51:24or any of that stuff. It's $80,000 is

1:51:27what what the promise is. We're still

1:51:30trying to figure out, you know, between

1:51:32the the two different camera types, how

1:51:34many get the CV, you know, the the 360

1:51:36verse not, but it's it can also sit on

1:51:41top of other safety devices in the

1:51:45vehicle. So for police department,

1:51:49we're we've got dash cameras and we've

1:51:52got the the the axon uh cameras, but

1:51:56that's that's when there's action. You

1:51:59know, what happens in between we don't

1:52:03really know about. Uh so this would be a

1:52:06way to make sure that drivers uh are

1:52:09using are are not you know typing on

1:52:12their cell phone. I mean they police

1:52:13exact have a lot of things in their car

1:52:15that they can play [clears throat] with

1:52:17that they need to play with. They don't

1:52:19necessarily need to be doing you know

1:52:20texting on cell phones uh things like

1:52:23that. U it also you know addresses

1:52:25speeding you know and you know our our

1:52:29anybody in our organization is liable to

1:52:32the same speed laws of anyone else

1:52:34unless they're in active emergency

1:52:37position. So it addresses all that. The

1:52:40other thing that that I think is

1:52:41interesting that that I'm especially

1:52:44interested in is the ability to look at

1:52:47our city um our infrastructure of our

1:52:50city to see potholes, report potholes,

1:52:53to see street signs that are missing,

1:52:57maybe even to see edge of property,

1:53:00you know, high grass, things of that

1:53:02nature to potentially help identify

1:53:05properties for maintenance purposes. So,

1:53:09it's not just about the ability of what

1:53:12it can do for the driver or for our

1:53:14fleet maintenance, things of that sort.

1:53:16>> I think that that stuff will be

1:53:18interesting for council to see once

1:53:19we've done the pilot.

1:53:21>> Definitely, especially with the the fuel

1:53:23capacity, I'm really excited. I know a

1:53:24lot of different multifaceted parts

1:53:26about this, but um talking about in some

1:53:28of those parts of where we can save

1:53:29money um definitely sounds like how you

1:53:31were talking about some of those big

1:53:32costs where we're spending on fuel being

1:53:34a little bit more proactive at our

1:53:35policy of items.

1:53:38>> And we're also hoping that this may not

1:53:40reduce our insurance, but it may help

1:53:45cap the increase. So either because NCLM

1:53:49will offer us a discount because they

1:53:52see the value of it moving forward or

1:53:55our rates of increase are not as

1:53:57significant because we have this

1:54:00technology in our car.

1:54:02>> Yeah. There as far as the real-time

1:54:03diagnostics for the vehicles um again

1:54:07trying to get that cost reduced. But um

1:54:10as far as a pilot's concerned, one of

1:54:12the reasons that again they're they're

1:54:14looking for a story is because they they

1:54:16want this to go out to member cities.

1:54:18And so they want um our story to be what

1:54:21they push out to the state members to

1:54:23say this is what Thomas has done. This

1:54:25is where they've had you know basically

1:54:27the data. Um the reinsurer safety

1:54:30national wants to do the same thing to

1:54:32push out their members nationwide. So,

1:54:36um, again, I've had people ask, well,

1:54:38why would they pick, you know, why

1:54:39wouldn't they pick a bigger

1:54:40municipality? Well, there's, you know,

1:54:42only three or four, you know, your

1:54:43bigger Charlotte, Raleigh, you know,

1:54:46whatever. There's hundreds of

1:54:47Thomasvilles out there. So, that's

1:54:49really where they're wanting to make the

1:54:51biggest, you know, impact. So, we'll

1:54:55see.

1:54:55>> Well, we love it. Bring on the money.

1:54:57>> That's right. That's right. Well, and

1:54:58and to get to one other thing on the

1:55:00funding, if we were just to cap what we

1:55:03have, if we get the pilot, we decide to

1:55:05continue, but we don't add any cameras,

1:55:07we're looking at about 30 to $40,000

1:55:09annual cost. Partly that depends on is

1:55:13it the 360 camera or it's the other

1:55:15camera. Not that we're paying for the

1:55:17camera, but we're paying for the

1:55:18software that goes behind that in the

1:55:20installation, things that

1:55:21>> one other consideration is of the

1:55:24reduction we've had in workers comp,

1:55:26it's really just been eaten up by the

1:55:28increases in property liability. So

1:55:30again, if like again when he said if we

1:55:32cap that, then other gains will actually

1:55:35be gains and that's really kind of

1:55:37>> what what we want to see. So

1:55:39>> good stuff. Thank you.

1:55:40>> Thank you.

1:55:41>> Um okay, hold on one second. Um, let me

1:55:45go back to item three, Main Street

1:55:49Report.

1:55:50>> We need to uh move to briefing the map

1:55:54for the Main Street District.

1:55:56>> You're right.

1:55:56>> Uh, so if we can if I can get a motion

1:55:59for that.

1:56:00>> Second.

1:56:01>> It's been moved to briefing the Main

1:56:03Street map.

1:56:04>> And then Thomas, you've got number

1:56:05seven, which is uh which is the policy

1:56:08that we would adopt inhouse for these

1:56:11cameras.

1:56:14Yes. So, u being the nature of all the

1:56:18technology and so forth, we had to have

1:56:19a pretty robust uh policy. I think it's

1:56:22almost eight pages front to back. Um but

1:56:25I'm going to go through the different

1:56:26parts of what it covers. Um again it's

1:56:29going to cover program administration

1:56:31um the technology

1:56:33um how we in give notice to employees um

1:56:37the GPS and uh location information

1:56:41uh authorized access is who's going to

1:56:43be able to uh facilitate as far as

1:56:45myself and department managers

1:56:48um the driving behaviors monitored I

1:56:52will go through some of these give a

1:56:54better understanding in the policy that

1:56:56will be recognized speeding Excessive

1:56:58speeding, rapid acceleration, hard

1:57:00braking, hard cornering, following too

1:57:02closely, failure to maintain lane,

1:57:04unsafe lane changes, running stop signs,

1:57:06running red lights, fade or yield,

1:57:08aggressive driving, distracted driving,

1:57:10cell phone or other handheld device use,

1:57:12seat belts, eating or drinking while

1:57:14driving, fatigue, um unsafe backing,

1:57:17collision, uh or impact events, and near

1:57:20collision events, which is I've had

1:57:22experience with that uh in the private

1:57:24sector where I would get notifications

1:57:26or see incidents that are you'll see

1:57:29that you know you would never know that

1:57:31something was that close to happening

1:57:33until you get it um sent over. So camera

1:57:36obstruction tampering and uh the GPS

1:57:39tampering. Um again there we're going to

1:57:42have in the policy about safety event

1:57:44review

1:57:45again just like I was saying as far as

1:57:47the process and how that's reviewed and

1:57:49set up for coaching. Um, and then so

1:57:51it'll be classified as is it something

1:57:53that's no action, something that we're

1:57:55going to do coaching, something that

1:57:57needs uh corrective action, or if it's

1:58:00beyond that, something that needs

1:58:01further um further investigation,

1:58:04potential disciplinary action. Um, and

1:58:07then I got it set in there as far as the

1:58:10different types that would be specific.

1:58:13speeding, what that entails, seat belt,

1:58:14what that entails, cell phone, handheld

1:58:17device, distracted driving, and it goes

1:58:19through all the way to um the equipment,

1:58:23um accidental issues, and intent

1:58:25intentional tampering as far as what's

1:58:27that in the policy. Um the employees

1:58:30responsibilities,

1:58:32the supervisor manager responsibilities,

1:58:35the fleet responsibilities, human

1:58:37resources, coaching, corrective action,

1:58:40and discipline, how that's going to be

1:58:41progressed. So there's no confusion

1:58:45as far as employee opportunity to

1:58:47provide their information. So whenever

1:58:48they see it see something bring them in

1:58:50for coaching what's their opportunity to

1:58:52say no this is not you know or give

1:58:54their explanation of of why they were

1:58:56doing what they're doing and the policy

1:58:58we have it where they are given that

1:59:00opportunity

1:59:01>> real quick who all is inside the city

1:59:04government is going to be able to view

1:59:06these these camera these clips is it

1:59:08just you or on top of that

1:59:10>> I ask Missy is this something that like

1:59:12a public work public request for this

1:59:15video can be

1:59:17Well, potentially, except there can be

1:59:21some limitations on that, but there

1:59:22could potentially be, but it's kind of

1:59:27the the short answer is yes, there can

1:59:29be

1:59:30>> because, you know, we have some people

1:59:31that constantly request stuff all the

1:59:33time and I just I don't know them

1:59:37getting a hold of, you know, everyday

1:59:38things that go on like that. I'm not

1:59:40trying to hide anything. I'm just saying

1:59:42just another thing for them to nitpick

1:59:44on.

1:59:44>> Correct. Yeah,

1:59:46>> but you did say that this one isn't

1:59:47going to have any audio.

1:59:48>> No audio.

1:59:48>> No audio.

1:59:52>> So, I want to make sure I understand.

1:59:53It's not that it has audio and we're

1:59:55choosing not to use it. It It just

1:59:57doesn't have the capabilities to do

1:59:58audio

1:59:59>> on all this stuff, we can set up how we

2:00:01want. We're electing to have no audio.

2:00:03Um it's and what I mean by that is even

2:00:05if it's recorded, it's not that we can't

2:00:07hear it. It's not It doesn't record

2:00:09audio whatsoever. It doesn't exist when

2:00:11we elect no audio.

2:00:12>> Okay. I just wanted to be

2:00:14>> Yeah, because I I asked the engineer

2:00:15that very question actually. Um, as far

2:00:18as vehicle crash and incidents, what's

2:00:20the, you know, the opposing um policy

2:00:23there? Our date of retention. Again, it

2:00:25kind of gets into what you were talking

2:00:27about as far as request. Um, we're

2:00:30looking at 90 days for just your regular

2:00:32what you were talking about, clip of

2:00:34nothing. Um, again, the only time

2:00:36there's even going to be a clip for them

2:00:37to ask for is if an event has occurred.

2:00:40Um, so more along the fact along the

2:00:44lines of knowing that we have these

2:00:46cameras. Could somebody request just

2:00:49randomly request to see the camera

2:00:51footage?

2:00:52>> Well, there wouldn't I guess it would be

2:00:54difficult to to say if they'd had to

2:00:56say, I want to see the footage on this

2:00:58time from here to here.

2:01:00>> There there would be no if there's not

2:01:02an event occurred, there's nothing for

2:01:04them to see.

2:01:05>> Right. It

2:01:08it's gonna

2:01:09>> So there's no data if nothing happens.

2:01:11Is that what you're saying?

2:01:12>> I think it keeps it on a loop of like

2:01:14400 hours for everything, right? And

2:01:16then it's just

2:01:17>> locally.

2:01:17>> Yeah, it locally. And then it's then it

2:01:19just starts to override itself.

2:01:22>> So if I wanted to see I'm I'm going to

2:01:24throw a scenario. If if I wanted to

2:01:27request the trash trucks video of my

2:01:30street because my trash can is broke or

2:01:32my recycling bin is broke, could I

2:01:34request to see that? Would it happen?

2:01:36>> Yes. And that's actually comes into the

2:01:38exoneration whenever because it's I mean

2:01:39I know that public works has it all

2:01:42time. They didn't pick up my can. He can

2:01:43go in there and say yeah he [snorts] did

2:01:46you know it wasn't out there or

2:01:47whatever.

2:01:48>> I see the advantages. I can also see the

2:01:51things that may create a huge headache

2:01:53for us.

2:01:56that

2:01:57>> that is absolutely true of everything

2:01:59every single day is that is that you

2:02:02know we've one of the things I've noted

2:02:04this is unrelated except that it's AI

2:02:06type usage is that public records

2:02:09requests have gotten much more you

2:02:12detailed and expressive as to what

2:02:15they're requesting because now people go

2:02:17on to chat GPT and say if I'm going to

2:02:20request this record what should I ask

2:02:22for and you get this 30page detailed

2:02:26that nobody would have thought of

2:02:27themselves. Um that's you know that's

2:02:30the unfortunate use of AI is that it's

2:02:35creating

2:02:37smart people. Um you know

2:02:41>> well well that's why you know I didn't

2:02:43want to you know it creates smart

2:02:46questions potentially by people that

2:02:49don't even know what question they

2:02:50asked. So, um, you know, that's, you

2:02:54know, that that's the problem. But we

2:02:56can't but not doing it is not really an

2:03:01option because if because if we're not

2:03:04doing it, someone else is going to do it

2:03:05to us anyway. I mean, they already do.

2:03:07They take pictures of us. They they take

2:03:09pictures of workers. They, you know,

2:03:10question this, they question that. So, I

2:03:12mean, all that's happening already. It's

2:03:15just that now we can say your picture is

2:03:17not as good as our picture, you know,

2:03:19and and you're wrong on the picture.

2:03:21>> I could see what Mr. Thrift was saying

2:03:23there, but but that's that's what I was

2:03:25getting at is, you know,

2:03:29>> and that's why that's why Wendy has a uh

2:03:34>> job. backing up what he said, you know,

2:03:36when I was when they approached me about

2:03:38it, they actually was talking to the

2:03:40committee and we were on one of the only

2:03:43cities that didn't already have it. So,

2:03:45it's it's one of those things that I'm

2:03:47not saying we're behind. There's a lot

2:03:48of place that don't, but um as far as

2:03:51the the more progressive cities out

2:03:53there, they've already adopted this

2:03:54stuff. And actually, when I was uh

2:03:56writing this, I had four other risk

2:03:58managers that are on the risk advisory

2:04:00that helped put this together so that it

2:04:02could be what it is. Well, and and and

2:04:05like we were just saying, the the pilot

2:04:06will tell us everything we need to know

2:04:08in the year. So, we'll try it out and

2:04:10revisit next year.

2:04:11>> So, we'll need to move to briefing the

2:04:14the the use policy.

2:04:16>> I'll move the use policy to briefing.

2:04:19>> Second.

2:04:20>> All right. That has been moved to

2:04:21briefing. Thank you, Tom.

2:04:24>> Move on to item number eight, which is

2:04:26approval of the special event approval

2:04:28process and application. I recognize our

2:04:30city manager

2:04:34This one's

2:04:46all right. So, uh, we had discussion on

2:04:50this item last month and I took the

2:04:52information, uh, that you provided me,

2:04:55went back to the drawing board and and

2:04:58reworked some of it. Um this is I hope

2:05:02um acceptable and and addresses concerns

2:05:06as best as I can. Um the the process map

2:05:12that you see here is is focused on uh

2:05:16special events that you know any that

2:05:19are any special event but

2:05:23it probably applies more to downtown

2:05:25special events um [clears throat] just

2:05:27because the area is cons of concern. So

2:05:30basically you walk through this process.

2:05:33You determine whether your event is

2:05:37affecting a public space, Park Street,

2:05:40parking lot or impacting a public space,

2:05:44then you move to uh if if no, then you

2:05:47don't have to do do a special event

2:05:49permit. The um uh if it's yes, then you

2:05:53move to the special use. So then it's

2:05:55dependent on where is it. Is it a public

2:05:57street closure or impact? Is it a public

2:06:00parking uh closure? Is a public park or

2:06:03other than Pace Park? And then Pace

2:06:05Park. Um application due date. If it's a

2:06:10street closure, then it requires 60-day

2:06:13notice if it's a city street, 90-day

2:06:16notice if it's a state street because we

2:06:19have to go through the notice process.

2:06:22Um parking lot closures require 45day

2:06:25notice. public parks other than Pace

2:06:29Park, our 45day notice,

2:06:31Pace Park. And I will say that 45day

2:06:34notice is is potentially dependent on

2:06:37the event. If it's a simple event, uh

2:06:39that doesn't require any significant

2:06:42change to normal operations, then

2:06:44potentially, you know, we could do it in

2:06:4630 days. Uh that would be a decision

2:06:48weighed in by the u

2:06:52this these get routed through the parks

2:06:53and recreation department. [snorts]

2:06:55Um the uh Pace Park if it's no alcohol

2:07:02then it's a 45day notice. If alcohol is

2:07:05permitted then you need a 60-day notice

2:07:07because of all the ABC permit process,

2:07:09the insurance process, things of that

2:07:11nature.

2:07:14Insurance is required uh at least a

2:07:16million dollars uh with the city added

2:07:18is is also insured for everything. uh

2:07:22law enforcement required. Um

2:07:26if we are closing a state street

2:07:30then yes that you're going to need

2:07:32police officers because that's how we

2:07:34can close the street with police

2:07:36vehicles. Um if it's a city street then

2:07:40it depends on the location and the event

2:07:42size. Same with a public parking lot

2:07:45closure or a public park um and Pace

2:07:49Park. So, uh it it depends on what's

2:07:52going on basically. Uh but it's going to

2:07:55be necessary for uh a state street.

2:08:00Then who gets the whose approval? Um

2:08:03generally speaking, it's going to be

2:08:04police, public works, parks and

2:08:06recreation and administration. Uh the

2:08:09one uh significant difference is if they

2:08:13are closing uh a state street, then it

2:08:16has to go to city council for the

2:08:18ordinance. Um and then um it gets a

2:08:22public parking lot public uh park or

2:08:25pace park administration gets cut out

2:08:27cut out of the process too. It's not

2:08:30necessary unless there's some sort of

2:08:31discussion that has to be held. And then

2:08:34I've given all the special

2:08:35considerations. Any tent larger than 800

2:08:37square feet, it's required to be

2:08:38inspected by the fire marshal. Any food

2:08:40truck must have a current health

2:08:42inspection certificate and state fire

2:08:44code inspector if it's required. Um any

2:08:48animals on display, ride, uh pet must be

2:08:51disclosed and an animal waste plan has

2:08:55to be submitted. In addition, must

2:08:58provide a portable wash station per

2:09:00state law. That's a requirement of state

2:09:01law that we were not enforcing in the

2:09:04past because we didn't know it was a law

2:09:06until we talked to the health

2:09:07department. Um it requires an additional

2:09:10insurance writer for the type of animal.

2:09:14So, if it's a if there's a petting zoo,

2:09:16there's one that's one type of

2:09:17insurance. If it's a a ride, you know,

2:09:20you're riding animals, that's a

2:09:21different one. Um, so just depending on

2:09:24what what they're doing. Um, state fire

2:09:28code event management requirements for

2:09:29events over a thousand people. Uh,

2:09:32that's a that's something that uh is an

2:09:35online

2:09:37course basically that someone can take

2:09:39uh to get qualified for that special

2:09:42event. uh uh mana management

2:09:46um portagon requirements. Uh if if a if

2:09:49a public restroom is available, then

2:09:51none are needed for the first 500

2:09:52attendees. For every additional 500

2:09:55attendees requires two portagons. Staff

2:09:57will determine the ADA required how many

2:10:00of those you required. Um rolling street

2:10:04closures for marches, small parades,

2:10:06partial street closures, they'll be

2:10:08addressed on an individual basis. Uh,

2:10:11special events that close a state street

2:10:12require off the offduty hiring which I

2:10:15mentioned as the process. Private and/or

2:10:18ticketed events are permitted but must

2:10:20be indicated on the application and it

2:10:23may require hired off to duty officers

2:10:25depending on the event. Then we get into

2:10:28the details of the alcohol event rules.

2:10:30So basically there are three status

2:10:32points. You can be an ABC permit being

2:10:35held by the nonprofit. You can be an ABC

2:10:39permit held by a third party vendor or

2:10:41you could be using [snorts] the social

2:10:43district regulations and it just walks

2:10:45you through that uh requirements. Um at

2:10:49least two TPD offduty officers uh for a

2:10:52minimum of two hours. Beyond that it may

2:10:55change depending on how many people

2:10:57things of that nature. Again insurance

2:11:00is required and there has to be an

2:11:02alcohol rider.

2:11:05Michael, the flowchart says that uh Pace

2:11:08Park, including farmers market, is only

2:11:09placed for alcohol, but the application

2:11:11says Pace Park, Farmers Market,

2:11:13Finchfield, Wine and Greek Golf Course,

2:11:15and social district events.

2:11:18>> Um well, Pace Park and when I talk about

2:11:21Pace Park, I include the farmers market

2:11:24um on here. So, so that's a good point.

2:11:27Um

2:11:31I really didn't think about Finchfield.

2:11:33Um, you know, this does cover some of

2:11:35the social district area that's within

2:11:37the Pace Park. Um,

2:11:40>> and also the golf course when people

2:11:41want to have rent out the course for,

2:11:43you know, a tournament or something.

2:11:45>> I mean, those are th those

2:11:48I I don't think we ever use special

2:11:50event permits for tournaments.

2:11:53>> They've got a different process. The

2:11:55Lexon and Musl tried to rent the the the

2:11:57golf course up here at W and Creek and

2:11:59it it came down to they couldn't give

2:12:01out beer without having I think it's a

2:12:03special permit.

2:12:04>> Cory permit house

2:12:07>> and so Lexington doesn't have that. They

2:12:09went to Lexon and did it over there and

2:12:11they didn't have to worry about that.

2:12:14>> I I would have to know more whether they

2:12:16were it was an AL permit issue.

2:12:18>> No, it was just they wouldn't have beer

2:12:19there. They were just going to give you

2:12:21know people could grab a couple beers.

2:12:24It wasn't like they were selling it or

2:12:25anything.

2:12:26>> I'd have to look into that because

2:12:27>> we don't we don't do special event

2:12:29permits for tournaments.

2:12:31>> The tournaments that like our golf

2:12:32course are put through Jason and Connor

2:12:36and we have [snorts] internal like a

2:12:38reservation.

2:12:38>> Well, this they came to me and told me

2:12:40that you know that's why they chose

2:12:41Lexington. That would be interesting

2:12:42because I mean I know that even at the

2:12:44mayor's cup I mean any any any uh

2:12:47tournament that we have there could be

2:12:49beverages for sale through the process

2:12:52that's there on site because alcohol is

2:12:54sold there beer is sold on

2:12:56>> well a lot of you your tournaments what

2:12:58they'll do is they'll have like a beer

2:12:59cart and they just ride around and give

2:13:01out a couple of beers to people

2:13:02>> and that's kind of where the the problem

2:13:05was. They told them they couldn't do

2:13:06that.

2:13:07>> I can look into that. I don't think that

2:13:08would necessarily be a part of this

2:13:10permitting application process, but it

2:13:12may be a conversation because what

2:13:13happens is an individual has to carry

2:13:15that responsibility. So right now our

2:13:17pro is the one who carries that

2:13:18responsibility of sale

2:13:21and so it could have been something that

2:13:24I understand.

2:13:25>> Yeah, J Jason's the one that told him

2:13:26that

2:13:27>> the compliment, you know, right beverage

2:13:29or whatever. So I can look into that and

2:13:31see like the tournament host. I don't

2:13:34see the difference.

2:13:35>> All right.

2:13:40Well, this is

2:13:43>> time time out.

2:13:44>> We got 15 conversations.

2:13:47>> Lexington golf course doesn't sell

2:13:48alcohol at all.

2:13:50Chief just told me so. It could be that

2:13:52then you are able to get your day permit

2:13:55as you would for any special event.

2:13:57Whereas there is one on site being

2:13:58carried.

2:13:59>> Well, my understanding was he didn't

2:14:00have to get a permit. They just they

2:14:02just gave them a cart to use for the the

2:14:04girls to drive around in a golf cart and

2:14:06hand out beers.

2:14:07>> Well, then they may have violated state

2:14:09law. I don't know.

2:14:10>> I mean, I'm just saying

2:14:11>> that's why I'm asking these questions.

2:14:16[laughter]

2:14:22>> That's right. [laughter]

2:14:26I think that historically all the sites

2:14:28that the alcohol has a provision to be

2:14:30served in the city has been listed.

2:14:33>> Now, would it have anything to do with

2:14:34the Lexa Moose Lodge being a private

2:14:36organization still doing it out there

2:14:38and they they have an AL permit through

2:14:40through their lodge?

2:14:43>> I don't know if they can use it off site

2:14:44though.

2:14:45>> I don't either. That's why

2:14:46>> Yeah, there's too many uny

2:14:49unknowns to be able to give you a

2:14:50definitive answer. But the short answer

2:14:52is is that tournaments and things of

2:14:55that sort out at the Winding Creek Golf

2:14:57Course are not covered by special event

2:14:59permit.

2:15:00>> Okay.

2:15:00>> Events.

2:15:01>> Any other questions on this?

2:15:03>> Yes. Okay. So, just playing devil's

2:15:04advocate here. We have during the summer

2:15:07uh nonprofit that wants to do a small

2:15:10band during the summer and do like a

2:15:13music series. How much would it cost for

2:15:16them or would they be required to have

2:15:18police officers at that event?

2:15:23Are they selling alcohol?

2:15:25>> No.

2:15:28>> Then it would be reviewed by the various

2:15:32staff and uh if PD determined that the

2:15:35event is only, you know, is estimated to

2:15:37only have 250 people. They may be able

2:15:40to just say that's fine. We're aware of

2:15:42it. We can drive by.

2:15:45People can call if they've got a 911

2:15:47issue. So it wouldn't cost anything

2:15:50potentially if there was some reason to

2:15:52believe due to the size of the event or

2:15:55alcohol that would potentially trigger.

2:16:01>> Didn't we decide that it was if it was

2:16:03over 500 were required? I think that's

2:16:07what we talked about at our last

2:16:08meeting.

2:16:08>> It sounds

2:16:09>> I think it says yes.

2:16:12>> We got to look at the flowchart.

2:16:14>> Yeah. [laughter]

2:16:16>> One last thing. It's it's basically

2:16:18depends on size and location of the

2:16:20event. So it it it leaves it more broad

2:16:22than just giving a certain specific

2:16:24number verse um

2:16:26>> maybe we should put a number on

2:16:30>> I I don't know if I particularly want a

2:16:31number cuz that that's where I was

2:16:33getting into with last week when we're

2:16:35talking about the the cost that it

2:16:38overall with the individual nonprofits

2:16:40and event organizers of how much the

2:16:43police officers actually come into uh

2:16:46play. So, I'm assuming that this was a

2:16:47way to kind of mitigate some of that

2:16:49cost with given some of that discretion

2:16:52back on uh our staff to be able to kind

2:16:54of determine on whether or not a event

2:16:56is impacting that area.

2:17:00>> And also, Michael, in the flowchart, we

2:17:02list the insurance requirement as $1

2:17:03million, but then in the in the uh

2:17:07application, it says 300,000 for

2:17:09personal injury, a million maximum,

2:17:10100,000 for property damage. So, is

2:17:13there three different ones or

2:17:15>> the the application is more detailed

2:17:19than the flowchart?

2:17:20>> Okay.

2:17:20>> The the max is the million dollars.

2:17:22That's, you know, the

2:17:24>> Well, I'm just thinking if somebody's

2:17:25reading this flowchart, they might want

2:17:26to know that there's more than just, you

2:17:28know, what the $1 million I got to have.

2:17:30>> We can add we can add those other

2:17:34the we can add the property damage and

2:17:36the

2:17:37>> okay

2:17:38>> or just reference the pol the actual

2:17:41application. My my thought with putting

2:17:43a number on it, I I just hate it out

2:17:45there of like who who is making the

2:17:47decision if if if you need a police

2:17:50there or not.

2:17:52>> Police.

2:17:54>> Yeah. I guess

2:17:57I think that I don't know. I I think it

2:18:00becomes too case by case and it could

2:18:02potentially not be fair for everybody.

2:18:05>> Well, I think right now having like a

2:18:08specific number is not equitable. Um,

2:18:11we're putting a blanket kind of.

2:18:14>> So, let me ask this. What would what

2:18:15would be the event or the case where we

2:18:18said yes, you need a police officer, not

2:18:20including alcohol?

2:18:22>> Um, if you had

2:18:27a thousand people that over 500, but it

2:18:30depends on who the 500 are. Are they 500

2:18:33kids? Are they 500 high school kids? So

2:18:36you see I think that's what opens us up

2:18:38to to

2:18:38>> but we can't identify every single

2:18:42>> you know variation of that either you

2:18:44know

2:18:45>> right cuz think about like for a school

2:18:47event a school has a typical range from

2:18:50anywhere between 500 to 900 kids in in

2:18:53the community right and so if that

2:18:54particular [music] school is hosting an

2:18:56event compared to we're saying let's say

2:18:58the trail ride host is over a thousand

2:19:00people right so we would know that event

2:19:02would need an officer but we're not

2:19:04limiting for an ability for our

2:19:07community to be able to hold these

2:19:08special events um for in outside of the

2:19:12four walls of the organizations that

2:19:13they are limited to.

2:19:14>> If if you wanted to say

2:19:17250 below 250,

2:19:21you're not going to have you don't need

2:19:23to have a police officer over 250

2:19:26estimated.

2:19:28You may have to and still allow for

2:19:30that, but even then, I mean, who are the

2:19:33250? you know, if it's two 250 toddlers,

2:19:38you know, you may want to have a few

2:19:39more police officers.

2:19:40>> I think for too long, our process has

2:19:41been too restrictive. And because it's

2:19:43been so restrictive, it has not made it

2:19:46very open in a process of allowing for

2:19:48people [music] to feel that they can

2:19:50have a special events in the community

2:19:52if they don't already know the process.

2:19:53>> We still need to worry about the safety

2:19:54though. We get a lot of people together.

2:19:56>> Agree. And and that's where I think, you

2:19:57know,

2:19:58>> police to be equal, right? You know,

2:19:59that way it's not coming into

2:20:01>> Councilman Johnson had an event, didn't

2:20:03have to have a police officer, but

2:20:05unknown person is and has to have one.

2:20:08>> That's that's what I'm afraid of.

2:20:10>> I think too the thing to consider is

2:20:13that with these events, we always can

2:20:15encourage that you always have the

2:20:17opportunity. I mean, we book an off duty

2:20:20officer for outdoor movies. I mean, we

2:20:22expect between 100 and 200 people

2:20:24>> that

2:20:24>> but

2:20:26public safety. I mean that that's always

2:20:28a good practice. It's nice to have an

2:20:30officer there.

2:20:31>> Yeah.

2:20:32>> And so but I think micronized

2:20:36conversation too with the quantification

2:20:37is all right if we lift if we say 250

2:20:40then someone's going to say I expect 225

2:20:42people there.

2:20:43>> Right. Right.

2:20:43>> And what was the cost for an officer?

2:20:45>> 35 35.

2:20:47>> Okay.

2:20:48>> Minimum. Right.

2:20:49>> I can live with it. I I'm just it

2:20:52worries me to some degree that it opens

2:20:54us up to say we're not being fair across

2:20:56the board. So I can live with it. I just

2:20:58want to say that now.

2:21:03>> Okay.

2:21:04>> It needs to be

2:21:05>> anything else this needs to be moved to

2:21:06briefing with I can make the change on

2:21:09the insurance um to bring the other two

2:21:12insurancees move to briefing system

2:21:15chart application.

2:21:19Yeah. Second.

2:21:21>> Okay.

2:21:25>> All right. Um, budget workshop dates.

2:21:29>> All right. Um, we don't have to make a

2:21:31decision specifically today, but based

2:21:34on uh the requests of of Thomas and and

2:21:37the fact that we've got all these

2:21:38decisions to make and a very

2:21:41processoriented

2:21:43um I think one we need to have an

2:21:45earlier meeting than we've had before.

2:21:48um have more than one meeting scheduled.

2:21:52Uh I know we sometimes extend one

2:21:55anyway, but I also think that we need to

2:21:57think about uh bringing in a third party

2:22:01to have some uh council discussion

2:22:05amongst yourselves about uh what your

2:22:09expectations are as a council because

2:22:13you we all know that that it was a very

2:22:16contentious last 30 days of last budget

2:22:20year and we have have to be try to be

2:22:24much more on the same page, much more

2:22:26communicative

2:22:28on this. Uh so my recommendation is that

2:22:31you consider doing uh a third party

2:22:34>> third party

2:22:35>> workshop. It' be like either the school

2:22:37of government, PTRC, someone that could

2:22:40work with the council to build trust

2:22:44within the council. Okay. Um, and do

2:22:47that first. Then look at and do that

2:22:51maybe in November and then hold one of

2:22:53your budget meetings in December and

2:22:56then the more detailed one in January uh

2:23:00like mid January so that we can get the

2:23:03answers that we need to move forward on

2:23:05the other pieces. So that's what I'd

2:23:08like us to consider, but it's your

2:23:10budget process. So you tell me what

2:23:12>> it makes sense to do it that way. I mean

2:23:14to to me it does.

2:23:15>> Yeah, I love this idea. And then um

2:23:17thinking about uh what you were

2:23:18mentioning um with the vendor fair that

2:23:21we had um if I'm not mistaken, there was

2:23:23one of our vendors uh who were there in

2:23:26the community who specializes with

2:23:28helping boards and nonprofits um with

2:23:31their continuity and understanding the

2:23:33vision. And so I would also kind of

2:23:36>> bridge that out there too to look out to

2:23:38some of those folks.

2:23:39>> I'm looking at more of a cost, right?

2:23:41you know, verse uh, you know, and

2:23:43experience obviously. Um, you know,

2:23:45again, that's a decision of whether you

2:23:47want staff to hire that person or

2:23:51whether council wants to hire that

2:23:52person. Uh, that that's another part of

2:23:55this is if you want to go that route,

2:23:56then who hires the

2:23:58>> I think staff would be the better choice

2:24:00because I don't know about hiring those

2:24:02people. I'm not versed in that.

2:24:03>> Yeah. And I definitely wouldn't just

2:24:04want to do it for the sake of doing it.

2:24:06I want a actual thing that could give us

2:24:08a shared experience to be able to feel

2:24:10like we got something from it.

2:24:12>> I will I will uh look at local and those

2:24:17school government PCRC and ask them how

2:24:20they would go about this process and try

2:24:22to get

2:24:22>> I do like the the smaller sessions and I

2:24:25think last year was better because

2:24:28>> I'm [snorts] not much use after we've

2:24:29been sitting there for six or seven

2:24:31hours and we're just ready to get done.

2:24:32>> My brain doesn't work that much. I I

2:24:34like the thought of breaking it up in a

2:24:37several

2:24:38>> days. Three hour meeting, you know,

2:24:39three.

2:24:40>> It doesn't even have to be back to back.

2:24:41I don't Yeah, just however we can. I

2:24:44think we're sharper when we talk about

2:24:46less.

2:24:46>> Okay. We'll we'll put out a a proposed

2:24:50meeting and work on that.

2:24:52>> Okay.

2:24:54>> Okay.

2:24:58>> All right. You got everything you need

2:25:00for

2:25:01All right. Um item number 10,

2:25:04consideration of award of contract to

2:25:06CPL for engineered plans and

2:25:08construction management for Carver Park.

2:25:10Recognize our parks and rec director.

2:25:12>> Good morning everyone. I have some

2:25:14packets for you. U apologize about the

2:25:17delay. They arrived yesterday afternoon.

2:25:20Um so these are um the packets for uh

2:25:24for their proposal for the continuation

2:25:26with uh CPL and their architectural team

2:25:30um for the Strickland Center project.

2:25:32And I have it here that I can pull up to

2:25:34if I can have the screen.

2:25:38Thank you, Eddie.

2:25:40So this feed proposal is what takes us

2:25:42through the entire process of uh design

2:25:45as well as schematics and then

2:25:47construction management. Um what you see

2:25:50in front of you is a proposal that keeps

2:25:53in mind the

2:25:56expenditure of 2.2 million by August of

2:25:58next year. That is the state funding for

2:26:00the project. Um Eddie and Michael and I

2:26:03met with CPL um last Thursday as they

2:26:08adjusted the schedule and timeline uh to

2:26:11be in conjunction with the state

2:26:12funding. Um this is your next phase in

2:26:16construction. uh when this is a similar

2:26:19um process to what we did with the

2:26:20aquatic center and what is required to

2:26:22build a facility. So what you have in

2:26:24front of you is the design and schematic

2:26:27design process and then into

2:26:29construction documentation um that

2:26:32entails um blueprints and um

2:26:37meetings within the city department with

2:26:39permitting, civil, structural,

2:26:40architectural, all different types of

2:26:42electrical drawings that takes to build

2:26:43the facility. Um but also some

2:26:46subsurface site uh investigation which

2:26:49is geotech to make sure we have the

2:26:51ability to um not have any unforeseen

2:26:54issues hopefully as well as um some

2:26:57surveying components within this due to

2:26:59our timeline. Usually within the city

2:27:01we're able to do some of that. However

2:27:04um with a strict timeline for the

2:27:06expenditure of a majority of the project

2:27:09funds um we needed to include surveying

2:27:11within this document. Um, I will say you

2:27:15see a 12-month construction phase. Um,

2:27:18and again, that is um in line with um

2:27:23what we're seeking for construction once

2:27:25it begins. However, uh the discussion we

2:27:28had the the lump sum of the 2.2 million

2:27:31that the state provided to the city does

2:27:33need to be expended by August and then

2:27:35it has to be solidified by November,

2:27:38right? with the paperwork and

2:27:38everything.

2:27:40>> No, August

2:27:42PTRC

2:27:44the close out. Yes. And so one thing

2:27:46that's happening within the funds with

2:27:47PTRC, I believe Eddie explained that

2:27:49last month is the environmental services

2:27:51that are required uh from the federal um

2:27:54dollars are happening now in conjunction

2:27:57with this process. So the environmental

2:27:59review is being done by PTRC and that it

2:28:03keeps us in compliance with all the

2:28:05things we've done with the flood plane

2:28:06as well as the requirements of CDBG and

2:28:09those things. So uh the total cost of

2:28:12this uh prop fee proposal at the moment

2:28:14is 365,480.

2:28:17Um according to Thomas in our brief

2:28:19conversation this morning that is in

2:28:22within the project ordinance right now.

2:28:25>> Yes, we have money in the project

2:28:26ordinance already. We'll have to move

2:28:28money from contingency and this will be

2:28:30coming from fund balance but we'll save

2:28:33construction and administration cost to

2:28:35PTRC that all the fun obviously need

2:28:38some more fun balance later on but for

2:28:40now we should be okay

2:28:43>> and to in a comparison to get to

2:28:46understand this process and what we're

2:28:48facing for the aquatic center the this

2:28:52contract was roughly 347,000 in 2021 um

2:28:57with an addition additional 38,000 of

2:28:59special um inspections that added on. So

2:29:01during the aquatic center project, your

2:29:03construction management, schematic

2:29:05design and CD design was around

2:29:08$380,000.

2:29:10So this is less uh but it uh it it is a

2:29:14cost that we can't create. [laughter]

2:29:17Yeah. Uh it it we can't create the

2:29:20blueprints by ourselves and this is the

2:29:21process of how it goes with

2:29:22architectural firms. So we have not had

2:29:25the opportunity yet to discuss with the

2:29:28team. This proposal came in yesterday

2:29:32afternoon. We're right here in this

2:29:33meeting. So we will try to cost engineer

2:29:35this a little bit to do a review. Um we

2:29:38did have that conversation though with

2:29:39the team about um obviously some of the

2:29:43things here staying in the timeline of

2:29:45the estate expenditures are schematic

2:29:48and design happening at the same time.

2:29:50So that's usually not the case, but we

2:29:54were able to cut off

2:29:58[cough]

2:30:00about [clears throat]

2:30:028 weeks, two months worth of timeline.

2:30:05Um so in the in the presentation that

2:30:09you all had in front of you in um

2:30:13September the it was a April uh

2:30:16construction

2:30:17we are actually now uh pushed back to

2:30:20February um to get going because again

2:30:23the expenditures needed from the state

2:30:25require that being expended because if

2:30:27not we lose those funds and that's

2:30:28that's not a thing that we want to do.

2:30:31Um

2:30:32but again this proposal is in front of

2:30:35you today. Hopefully if we can get it

2:30:38reduced a bit we will. Um but it would

2:30:41be something that we would hope to

2:30:42consider for a contract u potentially a

2:30:44briefing to keep the timeline uh moving

2:30:47forward to

2:30:47>> take action at briefing.

2:30:48>> Yes.

2:30:50>> Any questions? No.

2:30:51>> Will you pull up the thingy again? I

2:30:53just have like a

2:30:58>> It was just a thing I didn't recognize.

2:31:00record.

2:31:01>> Go down to a little chart.

2:31:03>> What? What?

2:31:04>> A little chart where it has.

2:31:06>> Yes.

2:31:07>> Okay.

2:31:07>> What is a civil fee for bidding?

2:31:12>> What is what

2:31:12>> that is? The fee of the civil site

2:31:14services through all the way up from

2:31:17schematic design.

2:31:18>> So they're pulling that out to show it.

2:31:20So

2:31:20>> So it's through bidding for the

2:31:21construction.

2:31:22>> Yes. And then

2:31:23>> takes us to there.

2:31:24>> Yes. And then that's why you're seeing

2:31:26the the DD and SD

2:31:30parcled and then you see the

2:31:32construction management parcled because

2:31:35what happens there is all of the design

2:31:37and all of the preliminary permitting

2:31:39and things happen within that phase and

2:31:42basically they're saying there's two

2:31:43phases of the process within this

2:31:45proposal you get to construction they

2:31:47help us bid it out and then from there

2:31:50there's OAC's that are within this that

2:31:53are owner architect construction

2:31:56meetings that'll be bimonthly on site to

2:31:59continue the process and all that is a

2:32:00review is what that trailer was up here

2:32:03on site. Do you go in there twice a

2:32:04month and have a conversation about

2:32:06where we are, what we need to be doing

2:32:08uh to get the project completed.

2:32:10>> Cool.

2:32:10>> And what go ahead.

2:32:12>> So I have a question. So whenever we

2:32:14went over the lady came and presented to

2:32:16us

2:32:19our last meeting, council meeting.

2:32:20>> Yeah. Um, so it says additional cost 2.9

2:32:24million, site cost 1.7 million, total

2:32:27construction cost is the 4.6.

2:32:30>> Correct.

2:32:30>> In small print it says

2:32:35soft cost, construction contingency,

2:32:37construction management fees not

2:32:39included.

2:32:40>> Correct.

2:32:42>> So

2:32:44they're telling you that the 4.6 is what

2:32:47it takes for the site and the building.

2:32:48They're saying it's not their contract.

2:32:50And that's what this is.

2:32:52>> That's what this is.

2:32:53>> Yes.

2:32:54Now, these some of these costs were

2:32:56within the state funding for um

2:33:00uh the schematic design and the

2:33:02architectural fees. However, no, that is

2:33:04not that. That's what this this is a

2:33:06contract for the architect and them to

2:33:08create it. What the 4.6 you see is

2:33:10construction and site.

2:33:12>> So, we're going to need more than 4.6.

2:33:17Yes. Yeah. I mean, this is not included

2:33:20in the 4.6. 4.6 is what it means for

2:33:22building and site. This is what the cost

2:33:25of construction management is within a

2:33:27contract with the architect and the

2:33:29site.

2:33:30That's a that is not they call them

2:33:32soft, but they're not. And that's why I

2:33:34think it's good to know ahead of time of

2:33:36what we're seeing because without this

2:33:38step, you're not able to design or

2:33:40obviously create the building. But it is

2:33:43something that is within uh the realm of

2:33:46what their projections were were

2:33:48building in sight. They didn't project

2:33:50your

2:33:51>> So where's that extra money coming from?

2:33:53>> I would defer that to our finance

2:33:55director, our manager, and y'all.

2:33:57>> Hey, Thomas.

2:33:59>> So we have a grant for about $3.1

2:34:02million that's going to fund

2:34:04construction and administration.

2:34:05>> Thomas, will you just come up here,

2:34:06please? So my pick. Sorry.

2:34:10>> We have a grant. I don't have it in

2:34:11front of me. I would have brought it if

2:34:12I had known I needed it. Um

2:34:15>> million dollars for construction and

2:34:16administration PTRC to manage the grant.

2:34:20>> We had about I want to say $380,000 from

2:34:23fund balance. Uh

2:34:26200,000 for this specific item.

2:34:28>> Obviously, I was a little bit low on

2:34:30that and the rest was contingency um

2:34:33from fund balance. So I have no other I

2:34:35have no other source of funding for

2:34:37anything outside of the grant other than

2:34:39fund balance. Yeah. Thank you.

2:34:41>> Okay. Yeah.

2:34:42>> Any other questions?

2:34:45Uh I will defer to council for action or

2:34:48to the committee.

2:34:50>> Move it to briefing.

2:34:51>> Second.

2:34:52>> It has been moved to briefing. Thank

2:34:53you.

2:34:54>> One cool thing before we jump off is

2:34:56that during this process,

2:34:58>> sorry, I need to say that for action at

2:34:59briefing.

2:35:00>> One cool thing during this process is

2:35:02we're uncovering the history of the

2:35:03park. I wanted to share these briefly.

2:35:06Uh this is a former tiny tots group from

2:35:08195860

2:35:10uh that were taken down in the tiny tots

2:35:12group that was held at Carver Park.

2:35:14>> Uh and we were able to find 35mm film

2:35:17with our community and through this

2:35:19process to even identify some of our

2:35:21former uh well that was a live picture

2:35:24um uh water carnival participants and

2:35:27things. So it's uncovering some history.

2:35:29The community is excited about it. But

2:35:30again, I know that we've got things to

2:35:32face as far as project budgeting and

2:35:34everything else. Um Are we going to are

2:35:36we going to try to get these framed and

2:35:37put up at the

2:35:39>> 100%. So when you see history wall and

2:35:41that's why I wanted to share it because

2:35:42I don't want to lose that component of

2:35:43it. Um we are actively sitting down with

2:35:46our community. They're coming in and

2:35:48reviewing some of the film that we're

2:35:49finding and also telling the shared

2:35:52history of the park. So that is a

2:35:53component of this that we're going to

2:35:55still work with the community to have a

2:35:57committee to do so. Um

2:36:00but all of that is happening in real

2:36:03time as well. So, we've been talking

2:36:05about history wall.

2:36:07>> We've been talking about the the shared

2:36:10history of the space, but we haven't

2:36:12really hit on it at all. So, we were

2:36:13finding these film and it's it's um

2:36:16pretty interesting to get a hold of. So,

2:36:18we're working on that as well. And

2:36:20again, I [clears throat]

2:36:21can assure you that within internally,

2:36:24we are trying to be as responsible and

2:36:27cost effective as we can be. Some of

2:36:30these costs though are what it takes to

2:36:33do this type of capital project quite

2:36:34frankly.

2:36:36>> Right.

2:36:36>> No sir. Sorry.

2:36:38>> Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate it.

2:36:40>> Yes ma'am.

2:36:41>> All right. Item number 11 is city

2:36:44council discussion of contracting with a

2:36:45government relations group. I'm going to

2:36:47ask for a motion to go into close

2:36:48session for discussion of contracts.

2:36:51Motion

2:36:51>> to go in close session.

2:36:54>> Second.

2:36:54>> Thank you. If we could have the room,

2:36:57please.

2:37:02There are

2:37:08session

2:37:20There is a